General Debate 11 June 2011

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krazykiwi

“It’s not the only thing around here that’s ‘very small indeed’ Baldrick. Your brain, for example, is so small that if a hungry cannibal cracked your head open there wouldn’t be enough inside to cover a small water biscuit”
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June 11, 2011 10:36am
Inventory2

Big night DPF?
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June 11, 2011 10:37am
Peter

Third!
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June 11, 2011 10:38am
krazykiwi

For you Peter: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_III_of_Russia. Keep an eye on your wife 🙂
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June 11, 2011 10:40am
jaba

Truei give me the shits
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June 11, 2011 10:40am
Peter

Applause for obscure reference.
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June 11, 2011 10:41am
Nookin

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/5130300/Teacher-3-1-2-times-over-limit

Nice to know that this clown is no longer in charge of a classroom of children. I also noted on TV 3 during the week that Wellington Hospital at least has considerable trouble with drunken idiots abusing and sometimes assaulting medical staff. As I understand it, ACC payments do not apply where somebody is injured in the course of a crime. I am increasingly frustrated by the fact that increasing amounts of taxpayer funds are applied to the medical treatment of or restoration of damage done by drunks. As far as I am concerned, if somebody is injured because they are drunk or they need medical treatment because of a drunken state, they are not entitled to the taxpayer funded assistance and the costs should be programmed into their IRD account and paid over and above tax from the outset. It is hard enough keeping up with tax commitments as it is without having to fund this sort of abuse.
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June 11, 2011 10:48am
Pete George

Many people talk the talk. And talk. And talk.
Someone takes a step.

1. Party List Candidates – Independent
2. Dunedin South Candidate sought
3. Dunedin North Candidate announced

Many people say they are sick of current political options and actions and want something different. This is seriously different. To change things we need to try.

This isn’t about individuals. It is about a new way of looking at our politics.
Flexible. Diverse. Valuing vision and competence more than feet in concrete ideology.

Parties may not like it because they want to retain control. This moves power to people from parties.

Food for thought. Think beyond the traditional square.

Or just keep talking over the same arguments.
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June 11, 2011 10:49am
krazykiwi

@Pete – I’m impressed. I’ve watched bemusedly while I considered you to be sitting on the fence on issue after issue over the years. That you’re giving this initiative a real push is outstanding. Kudos.
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June 11, 2011 10:56am
Manolo

A peddler of (oriental) fiction comes clean:
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/Religion/post/2011/06/dalai-lama-china-marx-communism/1
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June 11, 2011 10:58am
Pete George

Thanks kk. I know it may have looked like I sometimes sit on the fence, but it can also be called weighing things up before deciding, and before acting. I’m less for the soapbox, and more for finding what sort of soap works best.
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June 11, 2011 11:00am
Manolo

The Huruld on the laughable Stone Age taniwha:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10731562
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June 11, 2011 11:02am
Manolo

P.G., I also commend and salute you for the initiative.
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June 11, 2011 11:04am
reid

I read years ago the Russians have been doing experiments in this for decades.

“This” being DNA response to harmonic frequency.
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June 11, 2011 11:05am
krazykiwi

What is it with these moronic socialists… thinking they can spend money that doesn’t exist without consequence? So-called first world economies are infested with this disease and it’s robbing our kids of their futures.

Labour spending: Gordon Brown and Ed Balls ignored warnings and wasted billions

Gordon Brown and Ed Balls ignored warnings over the profligacy of their spending plans and the damaging impact of key tax policies, leaked documents disclose.

A confidential document presented to the Cabinet in January 2006 asks: “We’ve spent all this money, but what have we got for it?”

It warns that the efficiency of the public sector needed to improve rapidly and insisted that “spending growth will slow”. The document drafted by civil servants also says that “ineffective spending” must be “closed down”.

However, Gordon Brown discarded the advice and embarked on a £90 billion increase in spending when he became prime minister.

The expenditure meant that the economy was left facing a record deficit as the effects of the recession were felt.
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June 11, 2011 11:11am
hj

The proposed Auckland central underground rail connection
…..
another subsidy for developers. As the Savings Working Group pointed out:

The report added that there was little evidence that immigration boosted local incomes. In fact, the need to build roads and schools meant that net migration contributed to the national deficit.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/4622459/Government-policies-blamed-for-house-prices
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June 11, 2011 11:11am
lofty

I commend you also Pete, you have strapped on the big ones and giving it a go.

I fear though should your movement become even remotely successful, the political sharks and pirhanas will move in for the hijack.

Still…………good for you.
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June 11, 2011 11:12am
reid

Pete @ 10:49…

Admirable but Your NZ simply say what everyone else says they do in the political party world. What makes Your NZ different? What are their policies, or are they supposed to well up from the will of the electorate as the Party consults with it?

Lest you misunderstand I too commend you Pete, I’m asking, not condemning…
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June 11, 2011 11:12am
jaba

watching Key on the Nation and I can’t for the life of me understand why people call him shallow, smile and wave etc .. He is so easy to listen to compared to any other politician .. ever
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June 11, 2011 11:14am
Pete George

I fear though should your movement become even remotely successful, the political sharks and pirhanas will move in for the hijack.

That’s always a possibility, just ask Rodney Hide. But fear of something will not get anything changed. You have to have the confidence that the weight of general population in a democracy can hold the fort if it decides it wants to.

If it’s a good enough proposal it should work. It’s up to the voters to decide if this is the sort of change they want, if they want something else or they just want to remain unhappy it’s their choice.
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June 11, 2011 11:21am
hj

With regard to Your NZ Party. I would give them my vote. We definitely need something; the present parties are like established eating places where groups of idealists gain control and only cook (say) sausages. MMP has a tendency to ensure those sausages appear on the menu (whether the majority want to eat them or not). To demonstrate my point:

Teachers will be required to learn the Maori language and culture under new rules to be introduced next month, but the Secondary Principals’ Association says making it compulsory will cause resentment.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/5124638/Te-reo-compulsory-for-teachers
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June 11, 2011 11:21am
krazykiwi

@jaba – I don’t want a PM who’s easy to listen to. I want one that does the right thing for the future of our country. I had hoped that would be Key. I was mistaken.
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June 11, 2011 11:23am
hj

I think we need to formalise a system where people get to vote on issues. One where parties have to make clear statements, minus weazel words and people have to pass a random quiz before their vote can count.
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June 11, 2011 11:27am
Pete George

What makes Your NZ different? What are their policies, or are they supposed to well up from the will of the electorate as the Party consults with it?

It’s a quite different concept and difficult to get across simply (still looking for that formula). It should work at two levels.

1. Electorate. Through public contact and smart use of social media electorate MPs should be in touch with their electorate. I just heard Metiria Turei, she’s floating way over electorate level, talking about policy wins in potential coalition arrangements. People just want to be bloody listened to, so it needs to be by people other than her.

2. List. This shouldn’t be the castoffs, the consolation appointments, the token minorities, the electorate backup plan. It should be the leadership of the party, doing the overall management, the oversight, the policy development while being fed information from the electorate.

It’s nuts to see the PM and deputy supposedly with the time to look after an electorate. They should be focused on the top jobs, and their electorates should be represented by people who have the time to do it justice.

So at electorate level it will be people and issue focused. At list level the overview and vision and policy.

Small parties don’t get far with grand sounding policies anyway. To many idealist theorists and not enough sleeves rolled up.
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June 11, 2011 11:30am
Pete George

Thanks hj – we hope to get some protest votes but have very serious intent. If nothing else to get a debate going about how we can do politics better. The parties have been allowed to arrange MMP to suit themselves, not to benefit the voters. Occasionally an electorate wakes up – like Epsom.

The best thing to do in the sort term is to start a grass roots campaign to poll Your NZ. Get a game changer into the mix. Ultimately we all make our choices in November, but in the meantime we can shake up the status quo by challenging it, in the polls where it gets noticed.
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June 11, 2011 11:36am
reid

I don’t want a PM who’s easy to listen to. I want one that does the right thing for the future of our country. I had hoped that would be Key. I was mistaken.

kk, so was I. I don’t believe he’s beyond redemption and he could change, he’s intelligent enough. However I’ve come to realise he’s driven for egotistical reasons to almost the same extent that Hulun was.

He’s not evil as Hulun actually in fact is, but he’s incredibly full of himself and this is why he won’t take the steps he knows are necessary. He has to have heard in great detail the arguments and rationale which Treasury would put forward and his background would give him a far far better understanding of those than almost any other PM in our history. And still he doesn’t do what all of us who understand economics know he should be doing. Why?

What conclusion can one draw other than the one above? I’m open to alternatives but I simply don’t see any others.

It’s quite clear to me that Key wants to be a winner and he defines winning in selfish rather than altruistic terms which disappoints me greatly, for he has it in him to change, but he won’t.

Some of his supporters justify his stance as simply being necessary since the people can only be lead so far so quickly but I’m afraid in my assessment of the country’s current mood that’s palpably false. The people in my reading, are totally prepared and willing to be lead a whole hell of a lot quicker toward the promised land than they currently are and this is because of all the shit that’s been going down over the last few years: i.e. the GFC, the earthquakes, global disasters etc. It all adds up to a national willingness to do whatever the fuck it takes to get us out of it urgently, asap, pdq, etc. That’s my reading. Am I wrong?
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June 11, 2011 11:38am
Put it away

I read years ago the Russians have been doing experiments in this for decades.

“This” being DNA response to harmonic frequency.

So what you’re saying, Reid, is that you’ve gone completley insane? Thanks for the heads up.
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June 11, 2011 11:41am
hj

Ultimately the system should be based on the best ideas. To get the best ideas we need to concentrate on how arguments are presented using argument mapping and critical thinking rather than PR companies or opinionated journalists. It isn’t that the answers aren’t there it is that the public aren’t made aware of them as a finished product, because vested interests and opinionated activists have already grabbed the ground and are selling their snake oil.
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June 11, 2011 11:46am
Pete George

I agree hj. A small highly competent party list that targeted that approach could make a big difference. It doesn’t have to start with policies, it is best to have a process for evaluating issues and policies on an ongoing basis.

I hope the tempter on Trademe will get some smart minds thinking. Politics puts many people off getting involved, but you can minimise the politics and stick to ideologies of competence and vision.
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June 11, 2011 12:03pm
hj

Knives out for Chris Trotter:
“By cynically exploiting the symbolic power of ANZAC Day, Ms Morse gave offense to thousands, alienated potential allies and deeply compromised the entire anti-war movement.

It is precisely this fear of being lumped in with the extremism of the Far Left that has prevented me from joining in all the ballyhoo surrounding the so-called “Urewera 18” – the individuals arrested, initially on terrorism charges for allegedly participating in military-style training camps in the Urewera Ranges in 2006-2007. [Correction: While the Police intended to lay charges under the Terrorism Suppression Act, the required permission to do so was denied on the advice of the Solicitor-General. The defendants were actually arrested on charges relating to the Arms Act. C.T.]

In what can only be described as a triumph of their defence lawyers’ skills, these defendants (now facing firearms charges) have been transformed into the blameless victims of state oppression.

Within 72 hours of their arrest, they were already being presented as martyrs to freedom; harmless activists caught up in a world-wide, post-9/11, United States-directed campaign to stamp out political activism of all kinds.*

As such they have become the cause de jour among that peculiar sub-culture of leftists who simply cannot conceive of anybody taking their ideals seriously enough to die – or kill – for.

“Tame Iti’s not a terrorist,” they declare, snorting derisively into their chardonnay “he’s an artist!”

These are the sort of people who turn out to special screenings of “Operation Eight” – the outrageously one-sided “documentary” about the 2007 “police terror raids”*. Or, as they did on Sunday, to a Wellington art auction fronted by “key organiser of the 1981 Springbok Tour protests” (and prospective Mana Party candidate) John Minto, and one of the 18 accused – our old friend, Valerie Morse.

http://bowalleyroad.blogspot.com/2011/06/compromised-integrity.html

*Keith Locke : “I would feel more comfortable in the company of those arrested in the raids than I would among some of my fellow MP’s in Parliament”.* http://www.youtube.com/v/lyCA_h3pkgk

“We are winning the media war” Meteria Turie.
* Russell Brown called it “A Work of Advocacy”:

I think the film crosses a line at quite a pivotal point. We see and hear Solicitor General David Collins say there is insufficient evidence for charges under the Terrorism Suppression Act and instruct the news media to take care in reporting the case. We do not hear him complain that the incoherent drafting of the law made it difficult for him to approve charges, or say “I wish also to stress that the police have successfully brought to an end what were very disturbing activities,” and pay tribute to their “professionalism and integrity”. These things are literally edited out of his statement.
This matters, because Collins is presented as almost the only honest broker in the Establishment. Wright quoted him approvingly in the Q&A session after last night’s screening in Auckland, telling the audience Collins had declared the charges “a load of crap”. Collins simply did not say that, even in lawyer-language.”
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June 11, 2011 12:04pm
reid

So what you’re saying, Reid, is that you’ve gone completley insane? Thanks for the heads up.

Not at all, PIA, it’s just I have an open mind on this whereas you don’t seem to, that’s all.

No intrinsic reason why it couldn’t be the case, is there.

Why do humans universally respond to music as we do? Why? Why is it universal and why do we respond at all? Everyone does it, we can’t help it, can we. We just like to boogie. We just do. Why is that, do you think?

It may not be because of this, but then again, it may.

Unless you know something about DNA that I don’t. And what pray, might that be?

Even if you’re a genetic engineer, that doesn’t mean you’d know if it was bollocks unless you’d run the experiments, does it.
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June 11, 2011 12:10pm
krazykiwi

@reid – well said. I believe there’s appetite for change and that it’s being squandered. At least the Euro pigs are hitting the wall so hard and so fast that the only option appears to drastic economic surgery. Down here we drift further and further into sleep irrelevance as successive ‘leaders’ look after their welfare ahead of those who asked them to serve our national interests.
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June 11, 2011 12:13pm
reid

Yes kk the dangerous thing is there is no-one absolutely no-one except the people who will never get the position, who have the integrity foresight and will to do what needs to be done, even when it’s fucking bloody drop-dead obvious even to your average D-grade village idiot whose just failed Advanced Idiocy 9.4.25..150.415 [they use that numbering system at their university because they’re well, you know] for the eleventh time.

Abso-fucking-lutely no-one amongst the visible contenders, has the will to do it.

I think we’re screwed.

Abandon ship.

Where’s the orchestra. Keep playing boys… won’t be long now.
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June 11, 2011 12:28pm
tristanb

Unless you know something about DNA that I don’t.

I think high school 3rd formers seem to know more about DNA than you do. That article was TLDR, but it’s quite apparent after one sentence that it is bullshit.

You can’t just believe any steaming pile someone tells you until “you do the experiment”. (You should try slapping your head until you’re smarter – the percussion helps neurons function). There are plenty of intrinsic reasons why your article isn’t the case.

Humans hear sounds by detecting vibration in air, which moves our eardrum, and this is amplified into the cochlear, which “splits out” the frequencies. Signals from the cochlea are sent via the 8th cranial nerve to the auditory centres in the brain. The signals go throughout our brain and are interpreted into language/music/emotion. Where the hell is sound interacting with DNA?

But your believe in supernatural phenomena, clairvoyance, and telepathy explains why you’re ready to believe in something equally as ridculous: god. You just ‘out’ yourself as someone with no scientific understanding or logical ability.
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June 11, 2011 12:59pm
reid

it’s quite apparent after one sentence that it is bullshit.

Fucking d’oh you mental. Your whole post didn’t cover any reason as to why you think that, did it. You’re not Penny are you?

Tell me precisely WHY with FACTS you think it cannot be possible, or just shut up.
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June 11, 2011 1:10pm
Put it away

Thanks for confirming reid that you’ve gone completely insane. It doesn’t bother you at all that not a single sentence of that has any scientific meaning, just buzzwords plucked together in random order? It’s science-as-flower-arranging – just pick words that you think sound good together:

To come back to the DNA: It apparently is also an organic superconductor that can work at normal body temperature. Artificial superconductors require extremely low temperatures of between 200 and 140°C to function. As one recently learned, all superconductors are able to store light and thus information. This is a further explanation of how the DNA can store information. There is another phenomenon linked to DNA and wormholes. Normally, these supersmall wormholes are highly unstable and are maintained only for the tiniest fractions of a second. Under certain conditions (read about it in the Fosar/Bludorf book above) stable wormholes can organize themselves which then form distinctive vacuum domains in which for example gravity can transform into electricity.

DNA light wormholes organic superconductor vacuum domains gravity electricty. Fuck’s sake.
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June 11, 2011 1:14pm
AlphaKiwi

@ Pete George

So, you have officially launched and registered a political party? You’ll be running?
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June 11, 2011 1:14pm
reid

DNA light wormholes organic superconductor vacuum domains gravity electricty. Fuck’s sake.

Haven’t you heard of wormholes firstly, and secondly, who cares if some of it sounds crazy. The central thesis is the possibility that harmonics can be used to interact with DNA at a molecular level and I feel sorry for you in your ignorance of the way the world works at an atomic, quantum and molecular level, if the possibility of such a concept is beyond your understanding of what could be possible.

That’s all I’m saying – duh. I’m not saying it connects with wormholes, I don’t care.

The reason I bought up music went right over tristan’s tiny mind, so I’ll explain that as well. Music is universal, has been with us throughout history, possibly since before we even evolved as homo sapians, who knows. Chimps don’t make music do they, but who knows what the missing link genetic segment provided us with that have made us what we are. Music has been with us forever. Why? What does it do? Why do we respond to it, at all? It has a real effect on us, doesn’t it. Everyone knows what music is. No matter whether you’re brain damaged fully functional anything. Everyone knows. Why? What is it about it that makes this the case?

I’m not saying – duh – those questions can be definitely answered by this scientific possibility, I’m saying that IF that possibility were in fact actually the case, that would possibly explain those question. That’s all I’m saying there, tristan. No, nothing about the way our ears work. Der.

Like I said, give me facts about how the world works that renders this possibility impossible, or fuck off with your abuse, aresholes.
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June 11, 2011 1:26pm
publicwatchdog

Hi ‘Kiwibloggers!’ 🙂

Seen this?

Is the ‘Bilderberg’ Group – an international conspiracy ‘theory’ or ‘FACT’?

The ‘Bilderberg’ Group – are meeting now in St Moritz, Switzerland, discussing WHAT?

Serving whose interests?
_________________________________________________________________________________________________

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/3773019.stm

Bilderberg: The ultimate conspiracy theory By Jonathan Duffy BBC News Online Magazine

The Bilderberg group, an elite coterie of Western thinkers and power-brokers, has been accused of fixing the fate of the world behind closed doors.

On Thursday the Bilderberg group marks its 50th anniversary with the start of its yearly meeting. For four days some of the West’s chief political movers, business leaders, bankers, industrialists and strategic thinkers will hunker down in a five-star hotel in northern Italy to talk about global issues.

What sets Bilderberg apart from other high-powered get-togethers, such as the annual World Economic Forum (WEF), is its mystique. Not a word of what is said at Bilderberg meetings can be breathed outside. No reporters are invited in and while confidential minutes of meetings are taken, names are not noted.

The shadowy aura extends further – the anonymous answerphone message, for example; the fact that conference venues are kept secret.

This year Bilderberg has announced a list of attendees

They include BP chief John Browne, US Senator John Edwards, World Bank president James Wolfensohn and Mrs Bill Gates

In the void created by such aloofness, an extraordinary conspiracy theory has grown up around the group that alleges the fate of the world is largely decided by Bilderberg.

http://bilderberg2011.com/dolce-hotel-2010-location-sitges-spain/leaked-attendee-list-bilderberg-conference-june-3-6-2010-in-hotel-dolce-sitges-spain/

________________________________________________________________________________________________

Penny Bright
http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
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June 11, 2011 1:40pm
Put it away

Reid you are completely bonkers if you can’t see what’s wrong with that article. DNA does not understand human languages. If you speak daily affirmations into a laser aimed at your DNA, you are not going to lose weight, regrow hair, increase your penis size or win friends and influence people. DNA is a string of chemicals that interacts with other chemicals. It is not magic. It does not gather information from other dimensions through magnetically charged wormholes and pass it to the brain. If you insist on doing an experment, just do a test for the existence of those “group consciousness” psychic phenomena those loons are talking about. Telepathy will do. What word am I thinking of now?
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June 11, 2011 1:55pm
reid

You didn’t read a word of what I said in my 1:26 PIA. I explained what the possibility was, there. Your 1:55 completely misses what I AM saying instead continues to concentrate exclusively on what you THINK I’m saying WHICH IS NOT THE SAME THING.

Read it again, again, again and again. Then address your further comments on it, to that 1:26, or don’t expect any further replies on it from me, but that doesn’t mean you’ve won, it means you’re too profoundly stupid to understand something of possible outstanding significance to humanity. But sigh, you won’t get that either, will you.
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June 11, 2011 2:14pm
Put it away

Jeez reid you should relax, don’t you know the laser DNA magnetically charged wormholes don’t properly transmit information from other dimensions to your brain when you’re stressed? Although it does look like you’re picking up some transmissions from Uranus.
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June 11, 2011 2:22pm
publicwatchdog

Hi again Kiwibloggers!

Interesting that the ‘Sunday’ programme has chosen to investigate ‘disturbing questions’ about the Pike River Mine ‘disaster’?

(This Sunday 12 June 2011)
___________________________________________________________________________________________________

tvnz.co.nz/sunday-news/coming-up-unanswered-questions-pike-river-0-30-video-4220647

Chris.Cooke@tvnz.co.nz

“Best Practice

We has new evidence from inside the Pike River Mine that raises disturbing questions about what was going on after the first explosion and considers whether some of the men could have survived the blast.

And SUNDAY has been down an Australian mine, compared operations, and talked to a mining expert who’s appalled at safety at Pike River and says the mine should have been closed before the disaster.”
______________________________________________________________________________________________________

Penny Bright
http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
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June 11, 2011 2:29pm
Manolo

Nutter alert, nutter alert.
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June 11, 2011 2:35pm
Put it away

Manolo you’ll have to be more specific…
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June 11, 2011 2:39pm
publicwatchdog

Manolo (4,381) Says:
June 11th, 2011 at 2:35 pm

Nutter alert, nutter alert.
________________________________________________________________________________________________

It’s ok – Manolo doesn’t have to warn us – we already know what he’s like.

ie: When Manolo is confronted with FACTS and EVIDENCE which disturb his world outlook – it seems to trigger this response?

😉

Kind regards,

Penny Bright
http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
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June 11, 2011 2:52pm
reid

Penny, why is the always-apparent-to-those-who-think fact there may have been more people still alive after the first explosion than the two who escaped the mine, a “disturbing possibility?”

I mean FFS idiot, so what.

So what if there were?

Does your tiny mind not grasp that still doesn’t make any difference whatsoever nor sheds any further light on, the question to be addressed in the enquiry, with respect to whether the police decision not to enter after the first explosion was or was not correct bearing everything in mind.

And maybe the enquiry will disclose defficiencies in the operation. Maybe it will. Who knows. But why waste our time here Penny with meaningless pointing out of the bleeding obvious that doesn’t shed any new light at all?
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June 11, 2011 3:01pm
Sofia

Penny, why is your list different to the
Bilderberg Group 2011: Full Official Attendee List?

for USA
Alexander, Keith B., Commander, USCYBERCOM; Director, National Security Agency
Altman, Roger C., Chairman, Evercore Partners Inc.
Bezos, Jeff, Founder and CEO, Amazon.com
Collins, Timothy C., CEO, Ripplewood Holdings, LLC
Feldstein, Martin S., George F. Baker Professor of Economics, Harvard University
Hoffman, Reid, Co-founder and Executive Chairman, LinkedIn
Hughes, Chris R., Co-founder, Facebook
Jacobs, Kenneth M., Chairman & CEO, Lazard
Johnson, James A., Vice Chairman, Perseus, LLC
Jordan, Jr., Vernon E., Senior Managing Director, Lazard Frères & Co. LLC
Keane, John M., Senior Partner, SCP Partners; General, US Army, Retired
Kissinger, Henry A., Chairman, Kissinger Associates, Inc.
Kleinfeld, Klaus, Chairman and CEO, Alcoa
Kravis, Henry R., Co-Chairman and co-CEO, Kohlberg Kravis, Roberts & Co.
Kravis, Marie-Josée, Senior Fellow, Hudson Institute, Inc.
Li, Cheng, Senior Fellow and Director of Research, John L. Thornton China Center, Brookings Institution
Mundie, Craig J., Chief Research and Strategy Officer, Microsoft Corporation
Orszag, Peter R., Vice Chairman, Citigroup Global Markets, Inc.
Perle, Richard N., Resident Fellow, American Enterprise Institute for Public Policy Research
Rockefeller, David, Former Chairman, Chase Manhattan Bank
Rose, Charlie, Executive Editor and Anchor, Charlie Rose
Rubin, Robert E., Co-Chairman, Council on Foreign Relations; Former Secretary of the Treasury
Schmidt, Eric, Executive Chairman, Google Inc.
Steinberg, James B., Deputy Secretary of State
Thiel, Peter A., President, Clarium Capital Management, LLC
Varney, Christine A., Assistant Attorney General for Antitrust
Vaupel, James W., Founding Director, Max Planck Institute for Demographic Research
Warsh, Kevin, Former Governor, Federal Reserve Board
Wolfensohn, James D., Chairman, Wolfensohn & Company, LLC”

– http://fromthetrenchesworldreport.com/bilderberg-group-2011-full-official-attendee-list/4870
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June 11, 2011 3:17pm
starboard

“They include BP chief John Browne”

…not any more ..JB got the flick ages ago for being a fag and bringing BP in to disrepute.
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June 11, 2011 3:23pm
Pete George

Alphakiwi: So, you have officially launched and registered a political party? You’ll be running?

It’s all in the links Alpha. But yep. Challenging an otherwise very mundane autoLabour in Dunedin North.
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June 11, 2011 3:34pm
hj

John Maudlin’s Outside the Box:

“The tunnel vision that guides these policies is self-reinforcing. Europe, America and Japan draw their economic managers from the ranks of professionals sliding back and forth between the banks and finance ministries – what the Japanese call “descent from heaven” to the private sector where worldly rewards are greatest. It is not merely delayed payment for past service. Their government experience and contacts helps them influence the remaining public bureaucracy and lobby their equally opportunistic replacements to promote pro-financial fiscal and monetary policies – that is, to handcuff government and deter regulation and taxation of the financial sector and its real estate and monopoly clients, and to use the government’s taxing and money-creating power to provide bailouts when the inevitable financial collapse occurs as the economy shrinks below break-even levels into negative equity territory.
Regressive tax policies – shifting taxes off the rich and off property onto labor – cause budget deficits financed by public debt. When bondholders pull the plug, the resulting debt pressure forces governments to pay off debts by selling land and other public assets to private buyers (unless governments repudiate the debt or recover by restoring progressive taxation). Most such sales are done on credit. This benefits the banks by creating a loan market for the buyouts. Meanwhile, interest absorbs the earnings, depriving the government of tax revenue it formerly could have received as user fees. The tax gift to financiers is based on the bad policy of treating debt financing as a necessary cost of doing business, not as a policy choice – one that indeed is induced by the tax distortion of making interest payments tax-deductible.

Buyers borrow credit to appropriate “the commons” in the same way they bid for commercial real estate. The winner is whoever raises the largest buyout loan – by pledging the most revenue to pay the bank as interest. So the financial sector ends up with the revenue hitherto paid to governments as taxes or user fees. This is euphemized as a free market.

Promoting the financial sector at the economy’s expense

The resulting debt leveraging is not a solvable problem. It is a quandary from which economies can escape only by focusing on production and consumption rather than merely subsidizing the financial system to enable players to make money from money by inflating asset prices on free electronic keyboard credit. Austerity causes unemployment, which lowers wages and prevents labor from sharing in the surplus. It enables companies to force their employees to work overtime and harder in order to get or keep a job, but does not really raise productivity and living standards in the way envisioned a century ago. Increasing housing prices on credit – requiring larger debts for access to home ownership – is not real prosperity.
To contrast the “real” economy from the financial sector requires distinctions to be drawn between productive and unproductive credit and investment. One needs the concept of economic rent as an institutional and political return to privilege without a corresponding cost of production. Classical political economy was all about distinguishes earned from unearned income, cost-value from market price. But pro-financial lobbyists deny that any income or rentier wealth is unearned or parasitic. The national income and product accounts (NIPA) do not draw any such distinction. This blind spot is not accidental. It is the essence of post-classical economics. And it explains why Europe is so crippled. [and New Zealand’s [un] willingness to value its own landholdings Connal Townsend of the Property Council]
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June 11, 2011 3:38pm
Put it away

So Pete George is making a bid for membership of the lose-your-deposit club?
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June 11, 2011 3:39pm
Pete George

More fun then the “not do anything” club. And that’s not all I’m bidding for.
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June 11, 2011 3:51pm
hj

“Using derivatives to engineer Enron-style accounting enabled Greece to mask a debt as a market swap based on foreign currency options, to be unwound over ten to fifteen years . Goldman was paid some $300 million in fees and commissions for its aid orchestrating the 2001 scheme. “A similar deal in 2000 called Ariadne devoured the revenue that the government collected from its national lottery. Greece, however, classified those transactions as sales, not loans.” JPMorgan Chase and other banks helped orchestrate similar deals across Europe, providing “cash upfront in return for government payments in the future, with those liabilities then left off the books.”
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June 11, 2011 3:52pm
publicwatchdog

reid (7,523) Says:
June 11th, 2011 at 3:01 pm

Penny, why is the always-apparent-to-those-who-think fact there may have been more people still alive after the first explosion than the two who escaped the mine, a “disturbing possibility?”

I mean FFS idiot, so what.

So what if there were?

Does your tiny mind not grasp that still doesn’t make any difference whatsoever nor sheds any further light on, the question to be addressed in the enquiry, with respect to whether the police decision not to enter after the first explosion was or was not correct bearing everything in mind.

And maybe the enquiry will disclose defficiencies in the operation. Maybe it will. Who knows. But why waste our time here Penny with meaningless pointing out of the bleeding obvious that doesn’t shed any new light at all?”
____________________________________________________________________________________________________

errr…. I wasn’t aware that the Sunday programme had a story on Pike River Mine coming up this Sunday 12 June 2011, until someone forwarded me an email with this information.

So – I have passed on the information to others.

How do we know if this Sunday programme is going to ‘shed any new light’ on this matter – until we have seen it?

Duh?

My mind may well be ‘tiny’ – but unlike yours ‘reid’ – at least it is a bit more ‘open’.

Goodness – it seems that you ‘got out of the wrong side of the bed today ‘reid’!

Perhaps you need a cuppa and a lie down?

(Meant of course in a caring way…… 😉

Penny Bright
http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
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June 11, 2011 4:00pm
Black with a Vengeance

Must say I rather enjoyed busting out the Moloch figurine, planting it in the front lawn and dancing naked round it till I fell over, giddy with delight.

It was a hoot.
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June 11, 2011 4:14pm
publicwatchdog

Sofia (152) Says:
June 11th, 2011 at 3:17 pm

Penny, why is your list different to the
Bilderberg Group 2011: Full Official Attendee List?
___________________________________________________________________________________________________

Thank you Sofia.

My mistake.

The list I linked to was actually:

‘Leaked attendee list Bilderberg Conference June 3-6, 2010 in Hotel Dolce, Sitges (Barcelona, Spain)’.

http://bilderberg2011.com/dolce-hotel-2010-location-sitges-spain/leaked-attendee-list-bilderberg-conference-june-3-6-2010-in-hotel-dolce-sitges-spain/

Interesting now to be able to compare attendees from 2010 and 2011?

Thanks for that.

Cheers!

Penny Bright
http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
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June 11, 2011 4:18pm
reid

Who cares about the Bilderburgers? They’re just the business arm. It’s the people who really do go to Bohemian Grove and what they do when they get there, that to me is the most relevant place from which to learn the disgusting depths about how these people operate and who they are.
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June 11, 2011 4:28pm
hj

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/06/michael-hudson-will-greece-let-eu-central-bankers-destroy-democracy.html
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June 11, 2011 4:52pm
AlphaKiwi

@ Pete George

Had a look at the site. Found it a little hard to understand, but I like your idea and motivation to actually try to do something.

Your site could be improved, and I’d be willing to help make more user friendly and professional looking as well as do some SEO (Search Engine Optimsation) and reduce the likelihood of you getting email spam. The way you have your email address there, lets spambots see it. I’d be willing to do this for free. Let me know if you want this kind of help. 🙂
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June 11, 2011 4:59pm
hj

How many media people work for /or are rewarded by PR Firms?
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June 11, 2011 5:01pm
Viking2

Well while I have been slaving away you guys have all missed this important announcement is todays Waikato Times.

Super-rich tribes pay no tax
DANIEL ADAMS
Last updated 05:00 11/06/2011
Share

One of Waikato’s largest corporates pays no income tax despite profits approaching $200 million since 2006.

Waikato-Tainui’s commercial arm Tainui Group Holdings Limited raked in profits of $179m in the past five years – largely from it’s burgeoning property portfolio and its flagship 68-store, 49,000- square-metre Te Rapa retail development The Base.

A law change by the then-Labour government has for the past six years allowed the commercial arms of Maori tribes to gain charitable exemption from paying any income tax on their business profits.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/waikato-times/news/5130429/Super-rich-tribes-pay-no-tax

Grumpy has been on about this for months s so good to sea its made the front page at last.
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June 11, 2011 5:31pm
nickb

Was just reading an article in the Northland (Far North) age about the Far North District Council’s debt and saw a figure of $16 million in the first paragraph. At first I though christ, that is a fair bit of debt for a council of such a relatively small population to be carrying.

Then I read further and I saw that the council’s debt is not $16 million- it is $16 million LESS then projections of $140 million, leaving total debt of $124 million.

Does anyone else find this a staggering amount of debt for a council to be carrying which only represents north of Whangarei (and only a few tiny towns like kerikeri and kaitaia?

It is a travesty this is not reported more widely in the MSM (who would rather carry out their important public duty of informing us of the threat to our nation known as the “planking” craze) and it is an even bigger travesty that the average northlander wouldn’t have any idea about this.
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June 11, 2011 5:40pm
Put it away

yes of course hj, greece runs a massively bloated government for years, paying civil servants 14 months wages for a year’s work, bribing the socialist voters with the promise of rich-country wage levels despite the country essentially having no economy, promising every kind of government service with no visible means of support, and when they finally have to resort to imaginary accounting to hide the gargantuan debt, that’s the accountant’s fault. Here’s a crazy idea – how about apply some fiscal responsiblity, tell the voters to HTFU and pay their own way with actual work of economic value, and not run up the insane government debt in the first place?
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June 11, 2011 5:47pm
Manolo

False alarm. This elusive particle has not been found yet, and the question is: does it exist, after all?
A fascinating topic.
http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/06/10/heartbreaker-major-setback-in-quest-for-god-particle/?test=latestnews
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June 11, 2011 5:52pm
Razork

Hmmm, as a CHCH resident I was happy enough with Roger Sutton hired to run CERA coz everyone else seemed to love the guy.
But then today I found out that he is Robyn Malcolm’s Brother in law and I said……..

Oh!
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June 11, 2011 5:55pm
Manolo

A law change by the then-Labour government has for the past six years allowed the commercial arms of Maori tribes to gain charitable exemption from paying any income tax on their business profits.

Government after government keep pandering to the racists, who milk the system to the maximum extent.
Of course, only the tribal elites benefit, the rest see and gain nothing, as the depressing social statistics for Maori tell us.

When will it end?
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June 11, 2011 5:59pm
nickb

Has anyone just seen the one news piece about the satirical childrens book “go the fuck to sleep” and that sanctimonious tosser bob mcoskrie on it?

What a puritan bore. lighten the fuck up
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June 11, 2011 6:09pm
starboard

“A law change by the then-Labour government has for the past six years allowed the commercial arms of Maori tribes to gain charitable exemption from paying any income tax on their business profits”

Check out Ngai Tahu…they pay nothin either in the way of income tax. What a rort.
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June 11, 2011 6:10pm
F E Smith

Put it away, don’t forget that Greece also has a massive tax evasion problem, practised by everybody from the very poor to the very rich. Their revenue is a fraction of what it should be, which, when combined with the profligacy you cite, means chaos.

What is really weird is that the communists are violently demonstrating against measures designed to save their country from bankruptcy, which would mean that pretty much everything they support, rather than only some of the things, would go down the tubes.
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June 11, 2011 6:14pm
Rufus

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/5131671/Attack-on-student-lasted-an-hour

Some school kid is beaten by a couple of his classmates.

I mean really, really beaten up. They tried to break his arm. They used their elbows on him, kicking, stomping, beat him with lengths of timber. For over an hour.

The article on stuff contains this strange phrase: “…a group of four students including the two accused, persuaded the victim, who was the same nationality…etc etc”

Why would a newspaper article mention “nationality”, unless it was significant?
Why not mention the nationality in question?

Strange.

(And where did all those Somalis end up?)

Any ideas?
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June 11, 2011 8:02pm
Mary Rose

Peter George <Many people say they are sick of current political options and actions and want something different. This is seriously different.

Sure, and it sounds great in theory.
But, being a cynic, what many people want is:
– first-class services
– zero taxes
-someone else to pay
– electricity, affordable homes
– never build anything, anywhere near me…
-… especially not power stations or houses
– hang all criminals
– but don't do me for driving too fast, because that isn't really breaking the law

Often, what's actually good for society isn't a vote-winner. The self-interest of one section clashes with the self-interest of another and you can't please all of the people, etc.
Any new party will have to have specific policies – and you can't tell Parliament to wait while you run off and set up meetings with the electorate to decide which way to vote on something.

People who stand for election at any level think they know how to change the world for the better.
Then they find either their powers to do so are quite limited, or they have to make to difficult choices.

What makes you think your new party will be any different?
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June 11, 2011 10:09pm
Pete George

Any new party will have to have specific policies

Why? How many will they be able to implement? And what happens when you write some nice financial policies and you’re hit with a recession followed by a couple of earthquakes? You have to assess and adjust, which is what happens in the real world all the time. Ability to manage in a changing environment seems more important to me than fixed policies.

and you can’t tell Parliament to wait while you run off and set up meetings with the electorate to decide which way to vote on something.

Most legislation takes quite a bit of time to work through stages and has several votes, so you usually do have time to consult. Select committees consult all the time, it’s part of the process. If can you have a system set up where you can poll your electorate quickly. We have the technology, the traditional politicians just don’t want it. Should we just keep accepting that?

People who stand for election at any level think they know how to change the world for the better.
Then they find either their powers to do so are quite limited, or they have to make to difficult choices.

What makes you think your new party will be any different?

Separate the better worlders into the list, and the people representers into electorates. I’m aware of the difficulties of limitation of power to change things, but what we are addressing are common complaints – people don’t think politicians listen to them, and they think politicians say one thing and do another. We propose a better system of communication between people and politicians, both ways. It won’t solve everything but it should help – shouldn’t it?
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June 11, 2011 10:57pm
Pete George

Alphakiwi – grateful for assistance, email me.
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June 11, 2011 11:05pm
Black with a Vengeance

Why would a newspaper article mention “nationality”, unless it was significant?
Why not mention the nationality in question?

__________________________________________________________________________

FWIW they were all Asian boarders at Nelson Boys.
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June 11, 2011 11:28pm
GazzaW

nickb: Totally agree with you. The day that tossers like McCroskie & his ilk get to choose what I read or watch will be a sad one. On the other hand I do not believe that prick down in Invercargill has the right to upset significant numbers of people with his printed tee shirts stating that Jesus is a c**t or have I got double standards?
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June 11, 2011 11:54pm
publicwatchdog

My very clear understanding of the basic human right to ‘freedom of expression’ does not extend to comments that are ‘offensive’ or ‘defamatory’.

What may or may not be ‘offensive’ can be a ‘grey area’ – but I can understand why a number of people, particularly Christians would find such wording ‘Jesus is a c**t’ to be offensive.

Penny Bright
http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
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June 12, 2011 1:00pm

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