General Debate 2 May 2011

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pdm

Is this the first ever first from Benneydale?
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May 2, 2011 8:54am
Manolo

Are the Luddites in the pockets of the Americans? Supreme irony!

Green Party lunch revealed in Wikileaks cable

A discrete diplomatic lunch, a free trip to Washington and assurance of “assistance” from the US Embassy in Wellington have been used to blunt the Green Party’s “radical positions on many issues”, a leaked American diplomatic cable reveals.

The Americans seduced Green co-leaders Metiria Turei and Russel Norman, the latter with a free trip to Washington, and managed, over a lunch, to get a commitment from list MP Kennedy Graham “to turn (to the embassy) for any assistance he may need in the future.”

Whistleblower Wikileaks over the weekend published around 1500 cables written by the US Embassy in Wellington.
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May 2, 2011 8:54am
krazykiwi

@Manolo, I’m guessing that red Russ didn’t travel at the back of the bus..!
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May 2, 2011 9:01am
flipper

Scoop reports, in relation to Hone’s nutters, widespread support for increased taxes. As Tui would say: YEAH RIGHT!
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May 2, 2011 9:03am
Pete George

I believe that flipper, many people want taxes increased – as long as it’s others who will pay and not them.
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May 2, 2011 9:07am
magic bullet

I don’t think i’ve ever seen Guyon E-spinner be so aggressive in an interview as he was with Hone on Q and A. He attacked with all the fury of a right-wing zealot. Asked some bloody dense questions too. i.e. equating Hone’s desire to see a strong and independent, with Brash’s desire to see Maori assimilated by interbreeding. “If we can’t kill the bastards, then we’ll breed them out” sentiment, echoed over the centuries by those of a colonial mindset. How are they the same thing? Who would have thought that E-spinner would be so ignorant?
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May 2, 2011 9:08am
Caleb

are you for real?
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May 2, 2011 9:11am
hj

Sneaky “New Citizens” (in association with Harcourt’s Shanghai) trying to buy Maori: Rev Eru Thompson is acting for New Citiizens Party “this could be good for Maori I’m not talking about 1000’s I’m talking about $Millions (is what I’ve seen) ” “after all it’s our mana and our land”. Te Karere
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May 2, 2011 9:11am
Murray

Gyon Espiner a right zealot hahahahahahahaha good one you mutton head.
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May 2, 2011 9:12am
tom hunter

I was pleased to see a new right-winger (38 comments, probably a National voter) join Kiwiblog yesterday:

… but if it helps (speaking as a non-lefty):

Alright. And then …..

Private companies tend to become more efficient by cutting cost: ie they lay people off and reduce the wages of those left.

We’re doomed. Utterly fucking doomed.
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May 2, 2011 9:15am
magic bullet

In contrast, E-spinner treats the people that hold political power at present, with kid-gloves. He’s just not doing his job as a journalist in a modern democracy.
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May 2, 2011 9:21am
Put it away

Magic Bullet

“Asked some bloody dense questions too. i.e. equating Hone’s desire to see a strong and independent, with Brash’s desire to see Maori assimilated by interbreeding. ”

Really, I thought he asked some rather good questions. The transcript is here http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1105/S00005/qas-guyon-espiner-interviews-hone-harawira.htm

Now which question exactly is the one where he is “equating Hone’s desire to see a strong and independent, with Brash’s desire to see Maori assimilated by interbreeding.” ? The only one that comes even close to that is where he quotes something that Hone himself said:

GUYON Let’s talk about Don Brash and those policies for a second… [technical error] I’ll quote you here, cos I’ve got it here in writing. ‘Hitler had plans for the Jews. Pauline Hanson had similar plans for the Aboriginal people of Australia. Don Brash wants Maori to be subsumed within the larger culture of this country and to become one people.’ I mean, do you still compare him to Hitler?

Looks to me like you’re bullshitting again, magic bullet?
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May 2, 2011 9:24am
TripeWryter

A ‘discrete’ lunch?

Surely they mean ‘discreet’.
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May 2, 2011 9:33am
hj

To understand the ideology behind the Mana Party you have to understand “Indigenous Eco Socialism” IES.

I’m picking that indigenous societies were strongly them and us however my quess is that they will use the New Maori Rule Book written by Professor Mutu:

Our tikanga determines that :
We are tangata whenua – we are the hosts for all who visit this country (and hence need to determine immigration policy)
We have a duty of manaaki manuhiri – we are obliged to look after our guests and ensure they are well-treated and respected.
And if they decide to stay then they need a good understanding of our tikanga so that we can all live here in harmony.
We also need a good understanding of our guest’s tikanga so that we know how to look after them properly.
Pākehā settlement and introduced legal system has not and can not change these fundamental values and principles but it has made it very difficult for us to carry out our responsibilities.
http://www.goingbananas.org.nz/…/Going_Bananas_August_07_Maori_Roots_Multicultural_NZ.ppt –

But..but but…
The steep gorge of the Maruia River, leading up to the Lewis Pass has the Māori name of Kopi o Kaitangata, often translated as Cannibal Gorge. On long trips this was traditionally a place where one or more slaves were slaughtered to provide food for the rest of the party.
From Te Ara.

as for the eco part
there is an element of truth in that indigenous societies were living close to nature, however the notion of “a thousand years” of accumulated knowledge surpassing anyone elses is debabtable. Early pakeha wrote articles about the whenua based on their observations and modern science has revealed mysteries from the birth of a star to the DNA of an Orca. The facts aren’t in Maori’s favour given the archeological evidence showing the demise of the moa and core samples from lakes in the South Island showing the removal of forest plus the fact that seals were once common all around the coasts..
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May 2, 2011 9:34am
Luc Hansen

PIA

In two of those cases, both amount to genocide, but by different means. Look it up. Don Brash seems to want Maori, as an ethnic identity, to disappear and for the colonists, even in this more enlightened age, to get home free.

In the third case, she’s too late as it is generally agreed that Australia’s Aboriginals were subjected to genocide a long time ago.

He could have thrown in a further, extant, comparison, Israel’s (the state) wish for Palestinians to remove themselves from their ancestral land.
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May 2, 2011 9:35am
Longknives

RIP Henry Cooper….Good enough to sit Muhummad Ali on his backside…
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May 2, 2011 9:35am
nasska

tom hunter @ 9.15am

…”Private companies tend to become more efficient by cutting cost: ie they lay people off and reduce the wages of those left. ”

Privatisation of government & local body functions is necessary to contain costs. It is desirable if taxes & rates are to be set at anything approaching affordable levels mostly because the public sector cannot see past a “cost plus” way of doing anything.

At the same time let’s be honest enough to admit that there is a price to be paid. When private companies take over they do reduce staff numbers, they usually reduce conditions of the remaining staff & wages levels although not reduced are held until the company can no longer retain staff.

It’s called private enterprise & it’s what they do.
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May 2, 2011 9:37am
hj

As for Brash and Banks they are products of a narrow world view. No one sees the world as it is just as they have experienced it. Brash is talking same old, same old and Banks talks about Aucklands Growth as a “great opportunity”. This demonstrates that he is is the man on the surfboard riding the crest of the wave. Unless I’ve missed the factories making the new Kiwi anti gravity drive units, Auckland’s growth seems to be based on a real estate ponzi scheme (but that’s my world view).
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May 2, 2011 9:44am
krazykiwi

Norman had reported on the “great value” he got out of going to the US.

‘Great value’ in terms of, what … cash? policy? airpoints? Oh do tell Russ… we’re waiting …

And why didn’t you declare your trip at the time, and provide a comprehensive report for the benefit of the many US-haters who subsequently voted for you?
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May 2, 2011 9:44am
Murray

If you feel that bad about it Luc piss off back to blighty.
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May 2, 2011 9:46am
Put it away

Chrissakes luc, don’t pretend to be stupider than you are. The only thing that compares to building extermination camps for millions of people is…building extermination camps for millions of people. Stalin can be fairly compared to Hitler. Don Brash is not going to be building any camps. To pretend you can rationally equate the two is just ludicrous. And you have your third example backwards. A bunch of arab interlopers are expecting Israelis to remove themselves from their ancestral land.
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May 2, 2011 9:46am
Inventory2

@ Manolo – can you post a link for the Green Wikileaks story please.

UPDATE: found it – http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/4949637/Green-Party-lunch-revealed-in-Wikileaks-cable
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May 2, 2011 9:54am
krazykiwi

@IV2 – it’s here.
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May 2, 2011 9:56am
Luc Hansen

Meanwhile, in Libya, where people are dying in their fight for some degree of freedom (as they are in many of the artificial nation states set up on the basis of a plan drawn up on a napkin by a Frenchman and an Englishman at long lunch), is Nato losing its halo?

I supported the intervention, but when the mission drift extends to bombing civilian areas and seemingly targeting the acknowledged (Tony Blair gave him a lovely hug, remember?) leader of a country, killing at least four people, including three children), and that the aim of the intervention is to protect civilians, I’m starting to get the shudders.

The reason I’m getting the shudders is that now I’m wondering, what is the real reason for the intervention? The price of oil was skyrocketing because of the protests in Libya, and I’m not that naive to think that that didn’t influence Obama’s decision to bomb (with convenient cover provided by the UNSC).

Wars against Arabs are always good politics in the West, sadly.

But I’m reminded of Kofi Annan’s comment, pre Iraq II, that “War is always a humanitarian disaster”.

Gaddafi has been begging for talks for some time: why don’t Nato accept his offer and (hopefully) stop all the killing?

Perhaps the problem is that the US and the UK have already stitched up a deal with the rebels and this means that “regime change” is now the top priority, even above that of saving lives.

If that’s the case, it’s a sad time for yet more tens of thousands of Arab civilians, again, not of their making.
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May 2, 2011 9:56am
niggly

magic bullet (537) Says:

I don’t think i’ve ever seen Guyon E-spinner be so aggressive in an interview as he was with Hone on Q and A. He attacked with all the fury of a right-wing zealot.

Magic – disagree on both counts.

You know that saying “hell hath no fury as a woman scorned”?

Substitute “woman” for “journalist”.

Politicians (no matter what their persuasion – left or right) are dead meat with Journos once they start lying to them. Unfortunately for Hone MSM journos are starting to lose their patience with his disingenuous answers.

Even TV3, the underdog channel, aren’t buying Hone’s feigned sincerity. They are outing Hone for lying to them twice that he wasn’t going to set up a new Party:

And that means Harawira misled 3 News when asked a straight question about it last night.
“That’s not on my agenda for the moment,” he said at the time.
Then again on The Nation this morning, just hours before the speech.
http://www.3news.co.nz/Hone-Harawira-opens-new-party-with-shock-announcement/tabid/419/articleID/209217/Default.aspx

Hone is in for a rough ride with the MSM (let alone the blogasphere)!

If fact I heard Hone lying on Morning Report this morning about how the Maori Party have done nothing for Maori. Shheeesh Hone, all I can say is keep up the lies and your credibility will be less than it is now.
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May 2, 2011 9:57am
hj

Luc Hansen says:

Don Brash seems to want Maori, as an ethnic identity, to disappear and for the colonists, even in this more enlightened age, to get home free.
…
Luc and the other racial masochist misfits want Maori ethnicity to be black and white and a guilty group of “colonists” who should pay Maori for the right to enjoy the outdoors: “even in this enlightened age”.

I don’t think migrants to the UK have to pay the indigenous Poms for use of the beaches?
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May 2, 2011 9:59am
krazykiwi

hj – “Luc Hansen” bought a lifetime-supply of liberal white guilt in a Nigerian email scam a few years back. It’s painful to watch.
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May 2, 2011 10:05am
Luc Hansen

But Murray, that would cause me a problem.

How do I get one foot in Ireland and the other in England?

It would be a bit of a stretch.

But cheers for the advice.

PIA, we are naturally violently revolted by Hitler’s gas chambers, which actually pale in comparison to what European imperialists subjected North and South native Americans to, not to mention Africans, but genocide is revolting no matter how it is carried out and if you doubt that, ask the victims.
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May 2, 2011 10:05am
dime

oh the oppression! “we want you to have the same rights as everyone else”

im sure there are many people in the world that would take that deal.
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May 2, 2011 10:07am
hj

What sensible Maori are saying to Maori on the notion of Maori territory at time of colonization remaining Maori territory is “but that is everywhere”.
Thanks for thinking of lower paid workers though Hone and Luc and assorted wankers.
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May 2, 2011 10:08am
Luc Hansen

HJ

You need to look up “false equivalence” and “straw man” arguments.

You’ve got them in successive posts.
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May 2, 2011 10:14am
hj

PIA, we are naturally violently revolted by Hitler’s gas chambers, which actually pale in comparison to what European imperialists subjected North and South native Americans to, not to mention Africans, but genocide is revolting no matter how it is carried out and if you doubt that, ask the victims.
….
Michael King:
“But having said that, I will not willingly allow anybody to demean or diminish the status of my culture in the process of establishing or elevating that of Maori. And that brings me to the relevance of the Jack Lasenby quotation I mentioned earlier. There are several grounds for resisting the notion that respect for Maori implies disrespect for one’s own heritage, if that heritage can be seen to have disadvantaged Maori.

One is that I don’t believe in the Old Testament notion that the sins of the fathers are to be visited on successive generations. That is a prescription for the kind of payback culture that has crippled such places as the Balkans and Northern Ireland for centuries. Further, if one accepted such a principle, it would also be a recipe for continued conflict between Maori and Maori as a consequence of the musket wars of the early nineteenth century. Then there are the potential difficult implications for those who are both Maori and Pakeha in descent.

It is in that latter circumtance, however, that we have a precedent for a way forward and out of a culture of revenge. In the pre-musket, pre-Contact years, when Maori iwi or hapu fought other iwi or hapu and one side achieved clear dominance, the descendants of both victor and vanquished were married, so that their descendants could whakapapa back to both sides. And that was a prescription for ending the distinction between victor and vanquished and thus removing grounds for future conflict. In this way did Ngati Mamoe absorb Waitaha in the South Island; and then were themselves absorbed by Ngai Tahu; and in this way too most Ngai Tahu descendants now trace their descent from all three iwi.

The “sins of the fathers” model also loses validity if one takes it literally, case by case. When North Island Maori were being attacked by Imperial and then colonial government forces in the middle of the nineteenth century, my immediate ancestors were grappling with the effects of the Irish famines; and my Tierney grandmother always asserted that we, with four hundred years of oppression of our language, our culture and our faith, had more reason to hate the English than those who had survived the decidedly more mild consequences of nineteenth century colonisation.

That is not to say that one should devalue or underestimate the effect on Maori of the British colonisation of Aotearoa. I have researched and documented the pain and the grief of that process in half a dozen books; and done as much as I can to make the negative effects of that colonisation visible to my Pakeha brothers and sisters; and argued forcefully that it created imbalances of opportunity in our national life than can and ought to be compensated for and remedied. Which is one reason that I am fully supportive of the Treaty-based claims process and applaud the fact that it returns economic and social resources to people who had had those things illegally or unethically taken from them.

But that is not the same as saying that Maori people or Maori culture are ethically or morally superior to Pakeha because of the European colonisation of New Zealand. That is a notion I wholly reject. The process of colonisa1ion is about the application of power on the part of those who have it, onto those who do not. And it is almost inevitably corrupting, as Lord Acton reminded us when speaking of the absolute variety. And it brings with it, as part of its baggage, notions of racial and cultural superiority.

Note that I say that it is the process that brings these things, not simply people of one kind of ethnic background or another. In pre-European Contact days, tribal Maori interacted only with each other. And those people, Nga Iwi o te Motu, while there were small variations in their language and kawa, recognised a broad tikanga that was intelligible to and accepted by people from Te Rerenga Wairua in the north to Rakiura in the south.

In the first half of the nineteenth century, however, individual iwi considered carrying their martial culture beyond the shores of New Zealand. At least three expeditions of conquest were planned: to Samoa, to Norfolk Island, and to the Chatham Islands, which did not become part of New Zealand until 1842. All these proposed expeditions were dependent on finding transport to those places: and that meant finding a European ship’s captain whose vessel was available for charter; or it meant Maori commandeering a vessel for the purpose.

In the event there were no expeditions to Norfolk Island or to Samoa because the necessary transport was not secured. But there was an invasion of the Chathams Islands. Two Taranaki tribes then based in Wellington, Ngati Tama and Ngati Mutunga ki Poneke, hijacked a European vessel in 1835 and had themselves—a total of 900 people—delivered to Chatham Islands. There they takahi’d or walked the land to claim it; ritually killed around 300 Chatham Moriori out of a total of around 1600, and enslaved the survivors—separating husbands from wives, parents from children, forbidding them to speak their own language or practise their own customs, and forcing them to violate the tapus of their culture, whose mana was based on the rejection of violence.

Was this a superior form of colonisation to that imposed by European on Maori? Did it respect the dignity and customs of the colonised? Did it acknowledge the mana whenua of the tchakat henu or indigenous people of the Chathams? It did not. It was what might now be called an exercise in ethnic cleansing. When Bishop Selwyn arrived in the islands in 1848, it was to discover that the Maori called Moriori “Paraiwhara” or “Blackfellas”; and it was to report that the Moriori population continued to decline at a suicidal rate as a consequence of kongenge or despair. Moriori slaves were not released and New Zealand law was not established on the islands until 1862, twenty years after they had become part of New Zealand. And it is that twenty years of neglect of fiduciary duty on the part of the Crown that is the basis for the Moriori claim to the Waitangi Tribunal, heard in 1994, but still not reported upon.
http://sof.org.nz/origins.htm
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May 2, 2011 10:15am
Caleb

So what is the future for Maori?

To live off benefits and the funding of the NZ taxpayer?

Its not working and it never will.
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May 2, 2011 10:17am
hj

HJ

You need to look up “false equivalence” and “straw man” arguments.

You’ve got them in successive posts.
….
Would you elaborate on that?
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May 2, 2011 10:19am
joana

When is Brash going to come up with an original policy of his own? ”One law for all” is a long standing NZ First party policy. Stealing policies off other parties is not a good look. It might not be so bad if he actually understood the original policy.
Under Brash, more and more Maori and others will leave for Aussie , the UK etc Only the cheap wage slaves will be left behind.
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May 2, 2011 10:19am
Inventory2

No Joana; NZ First’s policy is one law for all, but another law for Winston. It is Peters’ hypocrisy that sees him sitting in St Mary’s Bay instead of in Parliament.
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May 2, 2011 10:29am
dime

joana – i dont usually read your posts, but that caught my eye.

under brash people with be wage slaves?? seriously??

lets get you booked in to a 3rd form economics class
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May 2, 2011 10:29am
pdm

Joana – when is Winston going to pay back the the $158,000.

Maori that move to Aussie the UK etc always do well because they have to get off the gravy train that exists here and earn their own living.
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May 2, 2011 10:31am
Luc Hansen

Hj @ 10:15

Your point? I find nothing there to disagree with. I admire Michael King and his works.

False equivalence @ 9:59am

Straw man @ 10:08am
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May 2, 2011 10:46am
hj

Joana – when is Winston going to pay back the the $158,000.
….
Politics shouldn’t be based on people but on ideas.
……

Press Release – North and South magazine
In the December issue of North & South magazine, Wellington writer Peter Dyer uncovers information on a major asset sale that has never before been revealed.

In the mid-to-late 1980s, many Railways tenants were forced to leave their houses. But one community in Ngaio managed to successfully challenge the Rogernomics juggernaut.

As privatisation returns to the public discourse – think water supplies in Auckland and Canterbury – the story of how more than a thousand Railway houses were sold to one man should serve as a warning to us all.
……….
We were told they sold for $63 million (or about $45,000 on average) but it may have been closer to $13,000. Sold to one man who formed a shell company with $100 capital.
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May 2, 2011 10:47am
Luc Hansen

pdm @10:31

Any evidence for that?

Maybe it’s because Maori who do emigrate self-select to get out of their home environment where so many men are destined to be jailed, and maybe because they are not automatically picked up just for being Maori – the Aussie cops are busy with jailing their own indigenous peoples on that basis.
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May 2, 2011 10:51am
Bobbie black

UFC 129, God I hate Canadians, the only idiots parochial enough to boo a great knockout of a Canuck and to boo Americans generally.

The best description I ever heard of Canadians was this:

Canadians, are just like Russians trying unsuccessfully to be Americans.

Oh like Canterbury people, just like Otago people trying unsucccessfully to be Aucklanders.

Pretty bang on.
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May 2, 2011 10:52am
tom hunter

Nasska

It ‘s true that any public service that is privatised is likely to have its staff reduced, perhaps massively as in the case of the godforsaken NZ Railways Department. It might even be true that their wages and salaries are frozen or reduced, depending on how bloated and out of whack they became in public ownership.

But I don’t think the commentator’s quotes were referring to just that situation. I’m sure she was expressing the thought that this is how private companies work, that this is how capitalism works, and such a take is directly out of Marxist thinking about capitalism. Yet she thought of herself as a “non-lefty”. Perfect fodder for a future Labour-Mana appeal.

She’s not alone of course: witness the statements from “hj” (who appears to be thumping the Winston drum) and Joana. In the course of their comments, even as they write some stuff that is “right-wing”, they express some of the most mendacious claims of the old far left. With that sort of background knowledge in history and economics (let alone philosophy) I don’t think they’re going to make much headway in making NZ a better place.
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May 2, 2011 10:56am
iMP

Luc., the problem with Libya, is that Gadaffi is a complete loon and once he has “peace” or a ceasefire” his secret police and bully boys will go in and eradicate rebels, their families, and anyone who breathes the wrong way. You can’t apply nice soft Nato Western principles and contexts to this desert despot. He’s completely Medieval. By attacking innocent civilians Gadaffi made himself a pariah, so the West went in to create a shield (they remember Rwanda) and now that shield has turned in to a sword, cos the Rebels can’t overthrow the guy with a fully armed army at his whimsical disposal.

What really annoys me, is where are the Arabs in this? This is their turf. They never seem to care about humanitarian issues, its always America, UK & Europe. The Vietnamese eventually went in (invaded?) and sorted out Pol Pot’s demonic madness. Same happened with Idi Amin. Africans sorted it out from across the border. That’s what the neighbouring Arabs should do.
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May 2, 2011 10:56am
dime

Bobbie – was a good PPV though! The GSP fight sucked as expected. But everything else was great
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May 2, 2011 11:05am
hj

False equivalence @ 9:59am
It is difficult to divide people into oppressed and oppressor when they have ancestry form both ethnic groups (not to mention different roles in history). Hence you need to use cultural identity to clarify the situation. On the colonist side you can throw in refugees from Tibet and people whose ancestors arrived in 1920.

Straw man @ 10:08am
So claims to the foreshore and seabed aren’t based on indigenous title at colonisation and indigenous title is based on birthright not citizenship?
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May 2, 2011 11:10am
Bobbie black

@Dime, yeah, just didn’t do it for me this time.

I am in a pretty bad mood though.

Too many Canadians involved.

And the best fights were in the prelims.
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May 2, 2011 11:18am
hj

Maori that move to Aussie the UK etc always do well because they have to get off the gravy train that exists here and earn their own living.
….
Maybe they are free from the negative influence of the NZ psychological society.

and etc

“Professor Mason Durie identifies the onset of colonisation and the subsequent alienation and theft of the land as the beginning of Maori health issues that manifest themselves today. Issues, that have as a result of inter-generational systemic abuse, become culturally endemic.”
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=149643
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May 2, 2011 11:19am
nasska

One of the drivers of the success of Maori who move to Australia is the lack of whanau to pull them back into the swamp. Any Maori who makes good in NZ will have the cuzzies sponging off him for the rest of his life.
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May 2, 2011 11:30am
Bobbie black

I’m out.

Gnight all.
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May 2, 2011 11:33am
hj

John Graham (when at Auckland Grammar) observed that when one Maori boy is doing well his mates pull him down.
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May 2, 2011 11:37am
hj

Too much earthquake money going to fix cosmetics. If a wooden house is shaken a lot of cracks appear along the gib so it needs restopping and repainting (fix it urself useless bugger). One person told me his is about $11,000 worth. On the other side of town peoples foundations are no longer level.
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May 2, 2011 11:42am
krazykiwi

Maybe it’s because Maori who do emigrate self-select to get out of their home environment where so many men are destined to be jailed, and maybe because they are not automatically picked up just for being Maori – the Aussie cops are busy with jailing their own indigenous peoples on that basis.

Wow Luc… you’ve managed to red-line the racist-o-meter. So my Maori friends in Oz are only fee to live and work because the cops are too busy to pick them up?!? Nothing to do with them working hard, being law abiding and contributing to society?!? Your mind really is a fetid swamp of liberal white guilt.
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May 2, 2011 11:52am
RightNow

Monty, I see Phil Goff thinks you’re Don Brash:

Spud says:
May 1, 2011 at 11:40 am
@Trev – Monty is Brash – methinks!

http://blog.labour.org.nz/index.php/2011/05/01/te-tai-tokerau-by-election/comment-page-1/#comment-172377
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May 2, 2011 12:16pm
Lance

Luc’s comments at 10:51 are so fucked up they must be a parody.

Yea, funny one
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May 2, 2011 12:27pm
KH

Actually it’s all over. Really we all assimilated each other decades ago. And the legal back up has long been in place.
Treaty of Waitangi meant Maori ceded Sovereignty. And gained protection of western law. And what a great deal it was for them
Those who now claim that didn’t happen are trying a fast one. Don’t listen to them.
Adherence to ‘The Treaty’ would not work for them if they admitted what was actually in it.
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May 2, 2011 12:46pm
Courage Wolf

Interesting, wonder who it might be?

Name suppression remained in place for a former MP when he went on trial in Auckland District Court today on fraud charges involving nearly $2 million.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10722891
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May 2, 2011 1:14pm
adze

Osama bin Laden is dead, according to reports. Obama to address the nation in a few minutes.
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May 2, 2011 3:04pm
Elaycee

How much more do we have to put up with, from this stain on society?

The NZ Herald reported today that:

“Bailey Junior Kurariki has been sentenced to 14 months in prison for domestic violence and assault. Kurariki was sentenced today after appearing in Manukau District Court on domestic violence charges and a separate assault. Both incidents happened earlier this year. The first incident happened after Kurariki got in an argument with his partner and assaulted her and a friend. Police said he slapped her in the face twice and used a closed fist to punch a man in the face on at least two occasions. The second incident happened when Kurariki encountered a neighbour. He was initially friendly towards the man but then became violent and kicked him in the chest. In total, he faced five charges.

Judge Margaret Rogers sentenced Kurariki to 14 months in prison and he will undergo alcohol and drug programme once he is released.”

Whilst the bleeding hearts would have us believe that Kurariki is a victim in his own right and that he deserves more chances to try and become a contributing citizen, I’d prefer to see this idiot locked up permanently or perhaps put against a post so he can take his chances in front of a Remington.
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May 2, 2011 5:34pm
joana

What is happening in the Act circus tomorrow? Who would know? Is Brash meeting Key? Is Rod being sacked? Is John the new leader? Where is Roge? At least other soap operas have more female players. Who knows tomorrow could be Heather’s big day. Soon the drug companies will be complaining about all the competition. No one needs sleeping pills when we get several hours of this rot each night.
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May 2, 2011 7:05pm
Viking2

http://blog.labour.org.nz/index.php/2011/05/02/make-your-own-labour-billboard/

Make your own Labour Billboard. Go for it.
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May 2, 2011 8:35pm
Mary Rose

Tom Hunter>But I don’t think the commentator’s quotes were referring to just that situation.

Yes they were.

>I’m sure she was expressing the thought that this is how private companies work, that this is how capitalism works, and such a take is directly out of Marxist thinking about capitalism. Yet she thought of herself as a “non-lefty”.

You assume too much, sir.

>Perfect fodder for a future Labour-Mana appeal.

Wash your mouth out with soap!!!!! 😉
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May 2, 2011 9:35pm
publicwatchdog

Winston Peter’s take on ‘Don the BRA$H Dictator’s ACT coup’ – following the golden rule for ‘Democracy 101’ – corporate style: ‘those who have the gold – make the rules’……….

In my view – a very considered opinion that most Kiwibloggers will feel far to frightened to read………………

http://www.bayofplentytimes.co.nz/opinion/news/winston-peters-nat-blitzkrieg-finishes-act/3950096/

“It is not often that one feels sorry for Rodney Hide but the seismic political events of the past week must have left New Zealanders gobsmacked.

When the dust had settled on Thursday there stood Rodney deposed, destroyed and bereft of any response save lamely reciting his belief in democracy.

In circumstances unparalleled anywhere in the democratic world, a party leader had been replaced by an outsider not even a member of that party.

And the new and old leader kept reminding observers of their long-held friendship.

This was the stuff of a Shakespearean tragedy, whether Hamlet or Julius Caesar.

Breathtakingly brutal behind-the-scenes scheming towards personal destruction, which begs the question: if that is how they treat each other then how would they treat outsiders or you?

What was the lightning rod which led to this?

Simply, it had everything to do with the polls.

For, contrary to many of the public polls on popularity, National’s inside polls, like Labour’s, are much more reliable and analytical, and warned the National Party that a victory in 2011 was by no means certain or secure.

Last Sunday’s Star-Times Horizon Poll put the gap between the so-called left and right groupings at just on 3 per cent, and very similar to National’s own polling.

Put aside these political groupings, the real issue here is that the reliable polls all indicated that Rodney Hide was dog tucker in Epsom and so was Act nationwide.

Time to bring to a head a drastic plan.

Hence the Easter uprising of Brash and the demolition of the man in the yellow jacket.

Who was behind it, that is, behind Brash and John Banks – both still members of the National Party?

Forget one’s personal preference but it does not take a Sherlock Holmes to work this one out.

National has completed its takeover of the Act Party in time to organise its election campaign. It was a political blitzkrieg.

In effect, the right now has two teams but the key operatives in the B Team belong to the A Team. Confused?

So must Rodney and the Act Party be at this time.

Desperate parties indeed take desperate measures.

…………….”
_________________________________________________________________________________________________

Penny Bright
http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
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May 2, 2011 10:09pm

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