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May 29, 2011 8:54am by David Farrar

General Debate 29 May 2011

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Yvette

What did I miss?
Why can the NATO forces arrayed against Muammar Gaddafi in Libya not just take him out? Is there some UN ban against killing political leaders, while they can use people as human shields?
I mean, it would appear Gaddafi is not so hard to find as Bin Laden

And to really spoil your day [sorry] –

Research debunks Maori abuse

A new parenting programme targeted at Maori tells them they are inherently loving and nurturing caregivers and family violence has arisen only because of European missionaries.
The Office of the Children’s Commissioner is releasing its “Maori Parenting” report on Thursday in a bid to curb violence.
Prior to Europeans arriving, the report says children were considered gifts from the gods and whanau shunned child abuse.
The researchers suggested abuse arose only after Maori were introduced to corporal punishment in missionary-run classrooms.
Te Kahui Mana Ririki, the child advocacy group which commissioned the research, has reported a reduction in child abuse after running workshops based on its findings.
Chair Dr Hone Kaa said Maori parents were able to see themselves in a much more positive light. “It will serve to demonstrate to Maori they don’t have to believe they’re inherently violent,” he said.
Maori children were taught by Europeans that bad behaviour should be punished by physical violence, he said. This steered away from the traditional idea children were tapu and discipline should be avoided because it tamed the child’s spirit.

– http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/5069797/Research-debunks-Maori-abuse
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May 29, 2011 8:58am
Falafulu Fisi

Ron Paul debates with Obama
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May 29, 2011 9:03am
Nostradamus

[Repost from 27 May general debate thread for those who missed it]

I’ll take this opportunity to revise my Kiwiblog alias slightly. Phillip John/Roger Nome has long since been kicked off Kiwiblog. My Nomestradamus alias was a bit of a piss-take on his one.

We live in troubled times.

The world nearly came to an end on ~~21 May 1988~~ ~~7 September 1994~~. We owe a lifetime debt of gratitude to Harold Camping for helping us to avert those potentially catastrophic events. We nearly perished on 21 May 2011, but thankfully an extreme interplanetary alignment bought us time, though only until 21 October 2011.

Given that we live in troubled times, I think it’s now time for me to become Nostradamus.
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May 29, 2011 9:05am
Lazybum

Another study for you Yve – read the papers and see how many maori kids get the bash and die.
The only thing maori kids are there for is for mummy & the evil stepfather to get the benefit
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May 29, 2011 9:07am
Inventory2

Has Trevor Mallard crossed the line between MP and shock-blogger. He appears to have defamed DPF …

http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2011/05/shock-blogger-or-mp.html
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May 29, 2011 9:20am
Pauleastbay

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/5069779/Anti-MMP-plan-leaked

Our very own DPF beaming from my screen early on a Sunday.

Great idea David, anything that could get rid of unelected list troughers works for me.
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May 29, 2011 9:22am
Other_Andy

Yvette (1,427) Says:
“Research debunks Maori abuse…….

Not my fault, those evil European missionaries made me do it.
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May 29, 2011 9:32am
KH

# “Maori children were taught by Europeans that bad behaviour should be punished by physical violence, he said. This steered away from the traditional idea children were tapu and discipline should be avoided because it tamed the child’s spirit.”

Nobody will be able to convince me that this is not government funded.
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May 29, 2011 9:44am
Johnboy

Congratulations Nostradamus for voluntarily outing yourself. I always knew you were a very wise fellow.

(ps: You couldn’t let me have the winning Lotto numbers for next week by any chance? 🙂 )
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May 29, 2011 9:51am
Other_Andy

KH (167) Says:

“Nobody will be able to convince me that this is not government funded.”

The report researched the treatment of children using oral histories, poems, and European observations.
It traced Maori history from the separation of Ranginui the Sky Father and Papatuanuku the Earth Mother through to early Europeans’ reports of children’s relationships with whanau.

Naah….
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May 29, 2011 9:58am
Johnboy

I guess the victors of Murri inter tribal warfare never ate the losing mobs kids even if they were the tenderest then Yvette.
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May 29, 2011 10:10am
Pete George

Nostradamus – does that mean you will start posting here in vague quatrains?
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May 29, 2011 10:17am
dime

Bahaha so whitey introduced maori to corporal punishment… They certainly took to it with great enthusiasm! They didnt discriminate against age either. They expanded its use and delivery methods, why go to the effort of getting a cane when you have a fist! Good for them.

Course if telling them its whiteys fault leads to less abused kids, go for it… Sadly it wont, it will just cost kiwis more in handouts.

Fast forward to 2030 and some lefts PM will be formally apologising
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May 29, 2011 10:22am
Nostradamus

Johnboy:

(ps: You couldn’t let me have the winning Lotto numbers for next week by any chance?)

Sorry mate. I’m reliably informed that Penny Not-So needs to raise funds for an Epsom bid. As the Kiwiblog community would benefit immensely from the comedy value of her standing in Epsom, I’m considering giving her a heads-up as it were, but given your love-interest in her please don’t misunderstand what I mean by “heads-up” 🙂

Pete George:

does that mean you will start posting here in vague quatrains?

I think Falafulu Fisi is in a league of his own when it comes to complex mathematical modelling 🙂
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May 29, 2011 10:33am
Elaycee

Nostradamus Says: “Sorry mate. I’m reliably informed that Penny Not-So needs to raise funds for an Epsom bid. As the Kiwiblog community would benefit immensely from the comedy value of her standing in Epsom, I’m considering giving her a heads-up as it were, but given your love-interest in her please don’t misunderstand what I mean by ‘heads-up’…”

SSssshhhh. All quiet on the Eastern front. Please let’s all enjoy the silence.
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May 29, 2011 10:40am
holysheet

Get fucked!!!!!! “IT’S NOT MY FAULT” all these sambo’s are killing their offspring. Whitey has turned it’s self inside out and backwards to try and accommodate these lowlife scum and show them how to not kill their kids. Enough is enough. When will the sambo leaders stand up and say yes we are killing our kids and it is our fault and this is what we are going to do about it. I won’t hold my breath in hope this will happen some time soon.

All we seem to get is excuses about whose fault it was. Maybe its because way back prior to whitey coming here the natives partook in tribal cleansing by eating all the lowlife that they had back then. Once whitey put a stop to this, the gene pool was contaminated and we are getting the result manifesting itself in the actions of todays throwbacks.
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May 29, 2011 10:45am
Viking2

It seems ordinary ratepayers are not the only ones confused by Wellington’s new recycling system.

The city’s resident MPs have also had their share of difficulties since Wellington City Council started the fortnightly system.

Greens co-leader Russel Norman has a wheelie bin at his Hataitai home. Collectors missed his entire street last week. “Hopefully it’s just teething problems,” he said.

Fellow Greenie Sue Kedgley has a wheelie bin. She and her husband spent about an hour trying to decipher the council’s instructions, she said. “We went over and over it. Eventually we worked it out.”

and they want to lead NZ. Spare me.
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May 29, 2011 10:47am
Manolo

Maori culture, as described in this article, is positive. But its absence leaves a vacuum. Maori need to work on filling that vacuum with some grounded, here and now, cause and effect, education.

http://lindsaymitchell.blogspot.com/2011/05/is-maori-secularism-ever-offered.html
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May 29, 2011 10:50am
Johnboy

I don’t fancy Penny for sexual purposes Nostradamus. I have my Irish soulmate Flossy O’Vine for that. 🙂

Feel free to give her a heads (or anything else) up whenever you like.

Since the Great Wainui Floods of 78 my fences have taken a battering and when I saw Penny’s lovely photo showing her powerful biceps I knew she was the woman for me.

I have just finished refurbishing Grandpaws two old crowbars and I’m going to send them and a couple of rolls of HT up to Penny so she can knit me a kilometer of barbed wire.

That can be her dowry and if we hit it off I have another task for her as my old Fordson that I inherited from Grandpaw is on it’s last legs.

If her thighs are as strong as her arms she’d be fine figure of a woman harnessed to the old plough and cheaper to keep than a Clydesdale.
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May 29, 2011 10:54am
Yvette

Johnboy – I guess the victors of Murri inter tribal warfare never ate the losing mobs kids even if they were the tenderest then Yvette.

Human life, particularly the lives of slaves and the conquered, was cheap; such people had no rights, not even the right to life itself. When a slave girl, apparently about fifteen years of age, infuriated an old chief woman, she was promptly killed and eaten. The head was thrown to the children as a plaything. (Moon 2006, p. 20, quoting Polack 1838 pp. 5-6) Not even in the deep south of the USA was treatment of slaves as brutal as that.

Maori culture not just dysfunctional but mad, criminally insane. The consequences of those decades of killing, social disruption, fear and uncertainty was a society in shock. There was widespread desolation and devastation among Maori communities. (Moon 2006, pp. 77-8, quoting Polack 1838 vol 2 pp. 344-5)
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May 29, 2011 10:57am
hj

“A new parenting programme targeted at Maori tells them they are inherently loving and nurturing caregivers and family violence has arisen only because of European missionaries.”

…..
In those primitive societies parents were moderated by aunts and uncles who were always nearby. Augustus Earle noted that Maori doted on their children however children were prized as slaves:

1832 – Earle, A. A Narrative of a Nine Months’ Residence in New Zealand, in 1827

The scene I have just described brings into consideration the subject of slavery, as it now exists in New Zealand. That slavery should be the custom of savage nations and cannibals, is not a cause of wonder: they are the only class of human beings it ought to remain with. Here slavery assumes its most hideous shape! Every one they can effect a seizure of in an enemy’s country becomes the slave of the captors. Chiefs are never made prisoners; they either fight to the last, or are killed on the spot, and their heads are preserved (by a peculiar method) as trophies. Children are greatly prized: these they bring to their dwellings, and they remain slaves for life. Upon the number of slaves a chief can muster he takes his rank as a man of wealth and consequence in society; and the only chance these wretched beings have of being released from their miseries, is their master getting into a rage, and murdering them without further ceremony.
“On entering a village, a stranger instantly discovers which portion of its inhabitants are the slaves, though both the complexion and the dresses of all are alike. The free Zealander is a joyous, good-humoured looking man, full of laughter and vivacity, and is chattering incessantly; but the slaves have invariably a squalid dejected look; they are never seen to smile, and appear literally half starved. The beauties characteristic of a New Zealander are his teeth and hair: the latter,
in particular, is his pride and study; but the slaves have their heads half shorn. The male slave is not allowed to marry; and any intercourse with a female, if discovered, is generally punished by death. Never was there a body of men so completely cut off from all society as these poor slaves; they never can count, with certainty, on a single moment of life, as the savage caprice of their master may instantly deprive them of it. If, by chance, a slave should belong to a kind and good master, an accident happening to him, or any of his family, will probably prove equally fatal to the slave, as some are generally sacrificed on the death of a chief.
Thus these poor slaves are deprived of every hope and stimulus by which all other classes and individuals are animated; no good conduct of theirs towards their master, no attachment to his person or family, no fidelity or long service can ensure kind treatment. If the slave effect his escape to his own part of the country, he is there treated with contempt; and when he dies (if a natural death), his body is dragged to the outside of the village, there to be made sport of by the children, or to furnish food for the dogs! but more frequently his fate is to receive a fatal blow in a fit of passion, and then be devoured by his brutal master! Even the female slaves who, if pretty, are frequently taken as wives by their conquerors, have not a much greater chance of happiness, all being dependent upon the caprice of their owners.”
http://www.enzb.auckland.ac.nz/document?wid=300&page=0&action=null
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May 29, 2011 11:00am
Johnboy

“Maori culture not just dysfunctional but mad, criminally insane.”

Sort of like the Hatfield Whanau do you mean Yvette? 🙂
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May 29, 2011 11:00am
Manolo

“Maori culture not just dysfunctional but mad, criminally insane.”

Are you talking about the same culture that has produced the world’s greatest scientists and philosophers ever known? Do you realise Newton, Einstein, Godel, and others come from distinguished iwi?

The notion Maori are Stone Age is a myth. Believe me.
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May 29, 2011 11:11am
Viking2

Its well recorded in PNG what the effects of eating human brain tissue are and its also well recorded what the effect of mercury has on the brain causing madness. BOP Maori who were great feaster’s of seafood have a predisposition to that madness, for their seafood rates highly in mercury content. Mercury from fumeroles off shore and from geothermal activity in the region.

add to that the effects of dope and all and we have the current generation.
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May 29, 2011 11:14am
Johnboy

It’s only the lucky arrival of us honkies that refreshed their gene pool and saved them from succumbing totally to madness from inbreeding.

European influence has created the fine race of overachievers we see now!

You’d think the bastards would show some gratitude. 🙂
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May 29, 2011 11:20am
Viking2

Political poll results may exclude 30% of those who respond?
Saturday, 28 May 2011
Press Release: Horizonpoll

The Electoral Commission might be well advised to see if some research companies are excluding up to 30% of respondents in published party vote poll results.

One of its criteria to allocate the money includes considering “public support for a political party such as the results of opinion polls”.

However, Horizon Research says an investigation may show some polling firms are excluding up to 30 out of every 100 people who respond to them from published results, providing a distorted picture of party support levels in the electorate as a whole.
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May 29, 2011 11:30am
hj

When our brig left Tucopea she brought away two natives of that island, who had most earnestly entreated the captain to take them off, and leave them upon any other land he pleased, as, according to their statement, Tucopea was so overstocked with inhabitants that it was scarcely possible to find subsistence; and the scarcity of food had become so general, that parents destroyed their children, rather than witness their sufferings from famine. Captain Kent, therefore, from motives of compassion, received them on board his ship; and, not having touched at any inhabited spot, brought them with him here. Their extraordinary appearance excited a great deal of surprise, both among Europeans and New Zealanders. They appeared simple, timid creatures, though stout and comely; but their hair was unlike any thing I had before beheld, as in length it reached below the waist, and was so abundantly thick as completely to conceal their faces. By some

curious chemical process which the natives of Tucopea have discovered, they render their hair a bright sulphur colour; and, as this mass of yellow hangs over their faces and shoulders, they bear the most striking resemblance to the lion monkey of the Brazils.

These poor creatures, upon landing, shook with fear, and trembled greatly when they beheld the New Zealanders, whose character for cannibalism had reached even their remote island: when our friend George went up to them, and lifted up (in order to examine closely) the curious mass of hair in which they were enveloped, they burst into a passionate fit of tears, and ran up to us for protection. The New Zealanders, with characteristic cunning, perceiving the horror they had created, tormented them still more cruelly, by making grotesque signs, as if they were about to commence devouring them; and, at the same time (like most savages), evincing the most sovereign contempt for them, from their apparent pusillanimity.
http://www.enzb.auckland.ac.nz/document?wid=302&page=0&action=null

Makes you wonder about sustainability on the pacific islands in pre european times. Of course Earle could be exaggerating.
________________

I have heard so much said about the great impropriety of the white settlers admitting the native females into their society, so much of the scandalous conduct of captains of ships suffering their men to have sweethearts during their stay in port, and so much urged in justification of the indignation shown by the missionaries when this subject is touched on by them, that I feel it necessary

to state one decided benefit which has resulted from that intercourse, and which, in my opinion, far more than counterbalances the evil against which there has been raised so loud an outcry.

Before our intercourse took place with the New Zealanders, a universal and unnatural custom existed amongst them, which was that of destroying most of their female children in infancy; their excuse being, that they were quite as much trouble to rear, and consumed just as much food, as a male child, and yet, when grown up, they were not fit to go to war as their boys were. The strength and pride of a chief then consisted in the number of his sons; while the few females who had been suffered to live were invariably looked down upon by all with the utmost contempt. They led a life of misery and degradation. The difference now is most remarkable. The natives, seeing with what admiration strangers beheld their fine young women, and what handsome presents were made to them, by which their families were benefited; feeling also that their influence was so powerful over

the white men; have been latterly as anxious to cherish and protect their infant girls as they were formerly cruelly bent on destroying them. Therefore, if one sin has been, to a certain degree, encouraged, a much greater one has been annihilated. Infanticide, the former curse of this country, and the cause of its scanty population, a crime every way calculated to make men bloody-minded and ferocious, and to stifle every benevolent and tender feeling, has totally disappeared wherever an intercourse has taken place between the the natives and the crews of European vessels. The New Zealand method of “courtship and matrimony” is a most extraordinary one; so much so, that an observer could never imagine any affection existed between the parties. A man sees a woman whom he fancies he should like for a wife: he asks the consent of her father, or, if an orphan, of her nearest relation; which if he obtains, he carries his “intended” off by force, she resisting with all her strength; and, as the New Zealand girls are generally pretty robust, sometimes a dreadful struggle takes place: both

are soon stripped to the skin; and it is sometimes the work of hours to remove the fair prize a hundred yards. If she breaks away, bhe instantly flies from her antagonist, and he has his labour to commence again. We may suppose that if the lady feels any wish to be united to her would-be spouse, she will not make too violent an opposition: but it sometimes happens that she secures her retreat into her father’s house, and the lover loses all chance of ever obtaining her; whereas, if he can manage to carry her in triumph into his own, she immediately becomes his wife. The women have a decided aversion to marriage; which can scarcely be wondered at, when we consider how they are circumstanced. While they remain single, they enjoy all the privileges of the other sex; they may rove where they please, and bestow their favours on whom they choose, and are entirely beyond controul or restraint: but when married, their freedom is at an end; they become mere slaves, and sink gradually into domestic drudges to those who have the power of life and death over them; and whether their

conduct be criminal or exemplary, they are equally likely to receive a blow, in a moment of passion, of sufficient force to end life and slavery together! There are many exceptions to this frightful picture; and I saw several old couples, who had been united in youth, who had always lived in happiness together, and whose kind and friendly manner towards each other set an example well worthy of imitation in many English families.
http://www.enzb.auckland.ac.nz/document?wid=302&page=0&action=null
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May 29, 2011 11:34am
Manolo

ACT’s press releases will be far more attractive to read after this statement from Lindsay Perigo:
I have signed on with the Don Brash-led Act Party, as Press Secretary to its parliamentary leader John Boscawen, until the election.
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May 29, 2011 11:39am
dime

“as the New Zealand girls are generally pretty robust”

so nothings changed then lol
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May 29, 2011 11:48am
AlphaKiwi

“I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians, they are so unlike your Christ.” – Ghandi
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May 29, 2011 11:49am
reid

There’s a treaty case on at the mo, in which the Maori witnesses are being eviscerated by the Crown historians over their view of what actually happened, which is romanticised exactly like this has been. For some completely unfathomable reason, Maori seem to have a need to romanticise their pre-European history and pretend it was different from what it actually truly was.

Sadly many of them are so uneducated many of them seem to actually believe the bullshitters and even the bullshitters believe its not bullshit.

As we all know, when a misconception like this gets going it gathers its own credibility amongst the credulous and eventually becomes accepted fact. The question is what does one do, when it appears in official programs like this and is even submitted as “evidence” in court?
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May 29, 2011 11:55am
Johnboy

Still without bullshit like this reid how could we offer “A Doctorate in Maori Studies” course. 🙂
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May 29, 2011 12:00pm
Elaycee

@ Reid – you describe the Josef Goebels principle – if you repeat bullshit over and over again, some dimwits will think it fact.

This is as daft as some Maori claiming that their ancestors used to fish the Chatham rise all the way out to the Chatham Islands – in their wakas! The Chatham rise extends for over 650kms off the NZ coastline and the depth is nearly 1,000 metres. That makes for one v-e-r-y long fishing line and many, many bone hooks.

Yet this version is still trotted out as ‘fact’ by the Waitangi Tribunal…

Sheesh….
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May 29, 2011 12:14pm
Black with a Vengeance

Of course there has never been any cases of European barbarism/cannibalism and infanticide just doesn’t exist for the enlightened master race eh ?

__________________________________________________________________________________________________

Of all the religious wars in human history waged by any religion, at any place, and at any time, none have been bloodier, more genocidal, more barbaric, and more protracted than the 200-year “holy wars” by the Western Crusades against the Arabs and Islam. The Western Crusaders horrifically soaked Asia Minor and the Eastern Arab Mediterranean coast with Arab blood (both Muslim and Jewish). The objective of the Crusades was simple, to destroy the Arabs (whether Muslim or Jew) in the Holy Land of Palestine and its environs “…on the ground that they had no right to inhabit their part of the earth, while for a Christian the whole world is his country.”

The Crusades took place during the Western dark ages when Europe was backward compared to the Arab/Muslim world and to the Christian Byzantine Empire of East Europe. Hence, the Crusaders’ behavior during their vicious wars reflected their cruelty and primitive barbarism. They were extremely militant, and committed incredible mass violence. They acted like modern-day violent American Ku Klux Klan and other Western racist groups. They committed, both in Europe and the Arab/Muslim world, the worst conceivable horrible crimes and atrocities, not only against thousands of innocent Muslims and Jews of both sexes and of all ages, but also even against Christians. Their vicious crimes – all of which will be detailed shortly – against noncombatants and innocent peoples included the destruction of properties; pillaging; plundering; foraging; ravaging; stealing; setting houses on fire; torturing; murdering; executing; burning humans alive; raping women, including nuns; and even roasting and eating (with a great deal of relish) the human flesh of their victims and their children.

The Crusaders’ chronicler at the time, Radulph of Caen, not only admitted this genocide, but also added, with pride, the following horrifying words: “In Ma’arra our troops boiled pagan adults in cooking pots; they impaled children on spits and devoured them grilled.” [26] Another Christian Crusader chronicler, Albert of Aix, who took part in the carnage of Ma’arra bragged, “Not only did our troops not shrink from eating dead Turks and Saracens [Arabs]; they also ate dogs!” [27]

Actually, even before the massacre of Ma’arra took place, its Arab inhabitants knew very well that there would be cannibalism by the European Christians. The Arabs had seen the fanatic Crusaders, the Tafurs, “roam through the countryside openly proclaiming that they would chew the flesh of … [Arabs and Muslims] and gathering around their nocturnal camp-fires to devour their prey.” [28] In fact, the barbaric Western Crusaders not only enjoyed cooking and eating the flesh of Arabs and Muslims, but they also found it even “better than spiced peacock.” [29]

http://radioislam.org/sindi/croisades.htm

________________________________________________________________________________________________

own that shit muthfuckas !!!
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May 29, 2011 12:17pm
wat dabney

Black with a Vengeance,

I rather think you miss the point.
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May 29, 2011 12:34pm
Black with a Vengeance

…some Maori claiming that their ancestors used to fish the Chatham rise all the way out to the Chatham Islands – in their wakas! The Chatham rise extends for over 650kms off the NZ coastline and the depth is nearly 1,000 metres. That makes for one v-e-r-y long fishing line and many, many bone hooks.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________

You’d be surprised Elaycee, at what Maori ancestors and descendents were and still are capable of when it comes to seafaring, but only if you’re some pig ignorant colonial denier.

http://www.pacificvoyagers.org/about-project/vaka/
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May 29, 2011 12:40pm
Viking2

Are you surprised at that wat?
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May 29, 2011 12:43pm
RightNow

“own that shit muthfuckas” – lol, it’s Islamic propaganda.

It would have been more credible to reference the Baby-Eating Bishop of Bath and Wells
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_(Blackadder)
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May 29, 2011 12:45pm
hj

Concerning the more specific claim that the crusaders ate babies, Dr. Helen Nicholson notes,

‘Eating babies’ is a standard accusation in Western civilisation against one’s religious or political
opponents. It is the ultimate taboo, as you will realise. Hence the Romans accused the early
Christians of eating babies, the medieval West accused Jews and heretics of eating babies, in
medieval literature pagans eat babies, the Revolutionary French peasantry accused the French
nobility of eating babies. The crusaders did eat their horses (which in Britain at least is only one
step up from eating babies) and during the first crusade one group of warriors (the ‘Tafurs’) were
accused of eating babies…The Tafurs were recorded to have resorted to cannibalism at the siege
of Ma’arra; this was reported by Raymond of Aguilers, but not by other chroniclers of the First
Crusade (France, Victory, p. 315 and note 49). It is tempting to deduce that they were accused of
this crime because they were poor warriors, even peasants, despised and feared by the more noble
warriors who regarded them of being capable of any depravity. In other words, the accusation reflects
fear and distrust between classes, rather than what actually happened. The Christian peasantry were
regarded as ‘other’ and ‘alien’ by the Christian nobles. In contrast, the Muslim warriors were brave
and had their own code of warrior ethics which was very like the Christian warriors’ code of ethics.
But peasants did not share any warrior-ethic; they fought dirty. Hence Christian nobles could regard
Christian peasants as being far more alien than Muslim warriors. They were sure that warriors
would always act honourably, but they were sure that they could never trust the peasants to behave
honourably! Alternatively, it is possible that the story of cannibalism originated with the Tafurs
themselves. If they put it about that they ate the bodies of their dead enemies after battle they would
scare their enemies so much that any enemy they met would flee rather than fight them.(2)

http://www.crusades-encyclopedia.com/cannibalism.html
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May 29, 2011 12:46pm
hj

You’d be surprised Elaycee, at what Maori ancestors and descendents were and still are capable of when it comes to seafaring, but only if you’re some pig ignorant colonial denier.
________
we’re they towed?
http://teaurere.org.nz/voyages_rarotonga.html
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May 29, 2011 12:52pm
hj

Of course there has never been any cases of European barbarism/cannibalism and infanticide just doesn’t exist for the enlightened master race eh ?
………….
It isn’t about master race it is about the way ideas evolve and become norms as in abolishing slavery and one man one vote or

“When the sacredness of property is talked of, it should always be remembered that any such sacredness does not belong in the same degree to landed property. No man made the land: it is the inheritance of the whole species.”..

““The land of Ireland, the land of every country, belongs to the people of that country.”
[John Stuart Mill ]
versus the land belongs to tangata whenua.
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May 29, 2011 12:59pm
Black with a Vengeance

ahhh yes..Islamic propaganda. How conveniently dismissive.
___________________________________________________________________________________

Alternatively, it is possible that the story of cannibalism originated with the Tafurs
themselves. If they put it about that they ate the bodies of their dead enemies after battle they would
scare their enemies so much that any enemy they met would flee rather than fight them.
____________________________________________________________________________________

Alternatively it is probable that cannibalism did take place as that piece shows the author clearly hasn’t got a fucking clue what really went on during the crusades and that her piece is not also some sanitised form of western propaganda.

The point being Wat …that history is written by the victors. In this instance European colonists as it relates solely to them and if it doesn’t fit the narrative of bettering the primitive societies they engaged with, it was whitewashed by subsequent academics and put out there as peer reviewed fact in historically accurate books ?

heh…I’m already pissing myself laughing. What more do you want ?
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May 29, 2011 1:00pm
Johnboy

“the Baby-Eating Bishop of Bath and Wells”

I would be very careful what you say in reference to him RightNow. I once mentioned him here and what he liked doing with that big red hot poker thingy and got demerited for being a homophobe!

Perish the thought. 🙂
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May 29, 2011 1:03pm
hj

Black with a Vengeance (85) Says:
heh…I’m already pissing myself laughing. What more do you want ?
…..

The radical percentile; the rock that will not listen to reason; the hot-head. Society would never have survived without it’s moderates.
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May 29, 2011 1:05pm
Black with a Vengeance

Were they towed?

_______________________________________________________________________________________

Indeed. In ancient times they lashed their canoes to pods of whales and dolphins who were more than happy to give them a free ride 🙂
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May 29, 2011 1:07pm
flipper

On May 16 DPF had an excellent analysis on the polls, principally on the difference between Horizon (internet based) and other pollsters.

Horizon are at it again posting on Scoop today a press release stating that 30% of New Zealanders are “disenfranchised” (my words) by the traditional method.
What Horizon fails to say, as DPF pointed out, is that some 20 % of registered voters did not vote. They also ignore the fact that some aged 18+ choose NOT to register.
The Herald Digi poll shows a Nat-Lab gap of 23 Odd %.

Horizon claims today that it should be 14.6% by including the 30% odd not in the conventional poll. But in their 30% Horizon has included mini minor parties and “would not say”.
As DPF noted on May 16, Horizon predicted a 31% margin for Brown over Banks in Auckland SC. It was actually less than 14%

Bring on Nov 26 and let’s have done with Horizon.
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May 29, 2011 1:08pm
Johnboy

“whales and dolphins who were more than happy to give them a free ride”

So WINZ is the modern Whale and Dolphin?

Perhaps they should get a new logo.

May I suggest a stylised fishy motif with a few honkies pouring money into its mouth and heaps of happy grinning Murris filling their flax baskets with stuff at the other end. 🙂
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May 29, 2011 1:12pm
hj

“history is written by the victors”
…..
“The Maori historian Buddy Mikaere has referred to a tendency on the part of Pakeha historians to depict Maori as, invariably, deeply spiritual beings who only ever act on the basis of high-minded principles; and Pakeha as unprincipled rogues or fools whose behaviour is always motivated by racial arrogance, greed and self-interest.

Mikaere made these comments with specific reference to The Story of New Zealand by Judith Bassett, Keith Sinclair and Marcia Stenson. But the imprint of the approach to history he identifies can be found in Anne Salmond’s book Two Worlds, First Meetings Between Maori aud Europeans 1642-1772 (though interestingly enough not in its sequel, Between Two Worlds). It rests heavily on James Belich’s series of television documentaries on the New Zealand Wars. And it is there in Fergus Clunie’s recent writings on missionary activity in and around the Bay of Islands.

In the first instance, that of Anne Salmond, it is revealed in a determrnation to expose the more brutal features of seventeenth and eighteenth century European society without acknowledging comparable behaviour by Maori; and to judge every aspect of European activity in New Zealand in the harshest light, and every manifestation of Maori behaviour in the most benevolent and positive way.

Belich’s documentaries highlight behaviour of the nincompoop variety, whilst potraying Maori as almost always making decisions that were admirable and strategically sound. And Fergus Clunie sees early missionary actions as being designed, not to give Maori the benefit of European technology in such areas as food production and house construction, but solely to make Maori dependent on the technology with a view to advancing the process of colonisation and parting them from their land.

It is true, as Belich remarks, that all the encounters referred to in each of these books result from European intrusions into a previously discreet indigenous culture; and that consequently, from a post-colonial perspective, Maori in the eighteenth and nineteenth century can be seen as always occupying the moral high ground, just as Moriori do in the context of their experience of colonisation. But it is also true, as Mikaere points out, that Maori too sometimes acted precipitately, unwisely, injudiciously; and that Maori historical narratives about themselves are as replete with fools and clowns and villains as they are with heroes and heroines. ”
http://sof.org.nz/origins.htm
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May 29, 2011 1:13pm
Black with a Vengeance

Society, now who’s society would that be HJ ? Here’s an example of how grateful Maori and indeed all Polynesia should be to it’s colonial saviours.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________

Contact with the outside world marked the beginning of the end for the Marquesan people. Foreign visitors brought with them diseases, and the population was decimated by slave raids, the introduction of opium and by the continued inter-tribal warfare and cannibalism.

One morning in May l842 a small group of Marquesans were surprised to see a French Admiral and 60 infantrymen in full ceremonial dress performing what appeared to be a religious ceremony on the beach. One soldier erected a tall pole while other soldiers stood around it in a square. The Admiral said something in French and hit the ground three times with his sword. The soldiers fired their guns into the air, and one of the soldiers pulled a piece of coloured cloth up the pole on a rope. The Marquesas had become part of the French Colonial Empire.

With French rule came the ‘advantages’ of civilisation. The French brought newspapers, money, tobacco, guns, liquor and Bibles. They also brought syphilis, dysentery, smallpox, measles, tuberculosis, malaria and leprosy. The Marquesans, who had no natural immunity to these diseases, suffered horribly. Epidemic after epidemic swept the islands. At the beginning of the nineteenth century the native population was about 90,000. When the French took the first census in 1887 they counted only 5,246 natives.

http://www.ms-starship.com/sciencenew/marquesas.htm

__________________________________________________________________________________________________

Remember to thank your colonial ancestors for the troubles you’ve created in these new generations of savages when you get to heaven OK ?
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May 29, 2011 1:18pm
wat dabney

“The point being Wat …that history is written by the victors. In this instance European colonists…”

No, the point is not that atrocities have been committed by people of all races (which is obviously true), but that such historical deeds in no way justify beating and murdering children today.

Therefore your reply, consisting as it did of a reference to a (supposed) white atrocity, entirely misses the point (unless you were implying that it’s also okay for whites to abuse and murder their children, which I don’t think you were.)
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May 29, 2011 1:18pm
Black with a Vengeance

And this would be the Buddy Mikaere who sold out Hone Harawira with a private email outlining the ‘raping of the land’ white muthafuckas have been engaging in since day one of colonial occupation ?

FUCK THAT NIGGA !
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May 29, 2011 1:22pm
Black with a Vengeance

No, the point is not that atrocities have been committed by people of all races (which is obviously true), but that such historical deeds in no way justify beating and murdering children today.

___________________________________________________________________________________

Let’s not pretend we’re so enlightened as to have moved beyond the committing of atrocities upon any one, regardless of ethnicity, age, sex or culture. Man has always beaten and murdered their children since time immemorial. I can’t see that changing anytime soon either. It pays to remember that next time we want to highlight the stats concerning the racial profiling of child abusers. A bit of balance is what’s needed don’t you think ?
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May 29, 2011 1:29pm
wat dabney

Black with a Vengeance,

You are so ghetto.

I’m guessin’ you’re from the projects. Straight outta Compton probably.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qa1rjCZxtxo
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May 29, 2011 1:30pm
Black with a Vengeance

Cause I am, whatever you say I am.
If I wasn’t, then why would I say I am.
In the paper, the news every day I am
I dont know it’s just the way I am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qX4kXbz9-48
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May 29, 2011 1:37pm
jaba

Describing his anti-carbon campaign as ”the best cause in the country right now”, Mr Abbott told the party faithful that, over time, ”a go-it-alone carbon tax meant the slow strangulation of manufacturing in Australia”.

”There can be no first-world economy without a manufacturing industry, and there can be no manufacturing industry if our manufacturers are subject to costs and penalties that are not present to their competitors around the world,” he said.

”Over time, pushing up the price of power means death to the automotive and the steel industry because, ladies and gentlemen, you cannot run a steel mill on solar panels; you cannot run a motor plant on wind power.”

the ETS shitfight warming up in OZ
Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/national/abbott-beats-carbon-drum-for-party-20110528-1f9q6.html#ixzz1NhXNWHHY
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May 29, 2011 1:39pm
wat dabney

Black with a Vengeance,

The question here was simply whether you agree that Maori “are inherently loving and nurturing caregivers and family violence has arisen only because of European missionaries” and that “abuse arose only after Maori were introduced to corporal punishment in missionary-run classrooms.”

You clearly don’t agree (“Let’s not pretend we’re so enlightened as to have moved beyond the committing of atrocities upon any one, regardless of ethnicity, age, sex or culture. Man has always beaten and murdered their children since time immemorial…“)

Glad we got that cleared up.
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May 29, 2011 1:39pm
RightNow

“Man has always beaten and murdered their children since time immemorial. I can’t see that changing anytime soon either.”

But we’ve got laws…

edit: not sure if I should include a /sarc tag or if it’s obvious enough
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May 29, 2011 1:39pm
Black with a Vengeance

But we’ve got laws…

___________________________________________________________________________

Yeah I know. His name is Michael and he’s the poster boy for your race 🙂
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May 29, 2011 1:48pm
backster

Well Black with utu the research must be right if this is right………”Plans are under way for Plunket to pilot the programme in Hamilton. The report researched the treatment of children using oral histories, poems, and European observations.
It traced Maori history from the separation of Ranginui the Sky Father and Papatuanuku the Earth Mother through to early Europeans’ reports of children’s relationships with whanau.

It sure is a long way back to trace history. I wonder what caused Ranginui and Papatuanuku to separate. Could it be domestic violence and if so who got the kids.
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May 29, 2011 1:50pm
RightNow

Really Black, you took the easy option? Nothing more inspired in that brain of yours?
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May 29, 2011 1:52pm
Elaycee

@Black with a Vengance says: “You’d be surprised Elaycee, at what Maori ancestors and descendents were and still are capable of when it comes to seafaring, but only if you’re some pig ignorant colonial denier.”

You are one sick puppy. Each time you post crap, you only confirm that you should have stayed in Standard 3 for a few more years. You may have then managed to reach standard 4 and beyond.

Dribbling from both sides of your mouth at the same time doesn’t mean that you are balanced. Suggest you go and join your mates at the Mana party – I think you’ll be a great fit.
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May 29, 2011 1:53pm
hj

Black with a Vengeance (92) Says:
May 29th, 2011 at 1:18 pm

Society, now who’s society would that be HJ ? Here’s an example of how grateful Maori and indeed all Polynesia should be to it’s colonial saviours.
…….
I think the trick is to acknowledge that we all have skeletons in our closets, that you can’t turn back time and let bygones be bygones. What people like yourself are seeking is greater rights and property based on indigenous ancestry. You don’t accept descendants of colonists as legitimate. We aren’t going anywhere so get used to us.
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May 29, 2011 2:08pm
Viking2

And watch out for the Chinese. They will eventually get all you money anyway the way you feral bred’s root about.
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May 29, 2011 2:27pm
Falafulu Fisi

Beautiful classical melody to listen to on a nice Sunday afternoon.

For unto us a child is born (Handel)

This is from Handel’s Messiah collection. I thought I’ve lost my Messiah Double CD, but somehow, I found it underneath the piano this morning.
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May 29, 2011 3:29pm
Black with a Vengeance

What people like yourself are seeking is greater rights and property based on indigenous ancestry.

___________________________________________________________________________________

And what people like yourself are seeking, is to continue skewing the laws and raping the land for the benefit of a Eurocentric elite, then selling off whatever’s left to whoever will pay the most for it.

Maori are the only check and balance this country has against total foreign ownership. People like you shoud be grateful the ‘feral inbreds’ root about as much as possible even if it does weaken their gene pool and allow for miscreant behaviour 🙂

Here’s something you might want to read.

Cultural Alienation and Maori Child Homicide and Abuse (Dr Rawiri Taonui)

http://news.tangatawhenua.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/ManaTamariki-Dec2010-Final.pdf
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May 29, 2011 3:46pm
john.bt

Rawiri Taonui is a racist professional Maori doing his best to rewrite history and promote the “Maori are victims” crap that keeps them at the bottom of the socio-economic pile. Tell me again why he got the boot from Otago.
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May 29, 2011 3:57pm
KH

…………Black @ 3.48 says “And what people like yourself are seeking, is to continue skewing the laws and raping the land for the benefit of a Eurocentric elite, then selling off whatever’s left to whoever will pay the most for it. Maori are the only check and balance this country has against total foreign ownership.” ………..

Another example of saying crap often enough to even believe it yourself.

Lets talk Iwi owned fishing quota right now. (a) Taking the money. (b) Raping the sea. (c) Not promoting the use of this industry to give poor New Zealanders (actually maori) much needed jobs. (d) Conniving with corrupt foreign interests to exploit third world desperate workers, kiiling a fair number regularly.

And “Black with a Vengence” now try to tell me that those foreign interests don’t privately hand around big paper bags of cash to make all that happen.
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May 29, 2011 4:39pm
Manolo

Maori are the only check and balance this country has against total foreign ownership.

Pure fantasy from a xenophobe. A NZF member, maybe?
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May 29, 2011 4:42pm
Manolo

An Australian offensive by the backward-looking and deluded followers of the “religion of peace”:
http://www.smh.com.au/national/hes-not-the-son-of-god-just-the-support-act-20110527-1f8j2.html#ixzz1NaooR2VH
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May 29, 2011 4:45pm
Yvette

Supposed European missionary colonial corporal punishment in schools.
Having mentioned, first up this morning, the stuff.co item Research debunks Maori Abuse I would suggest that the comments people have contributed on that may indicate how unhelpful the line is.

I doubt it does a single thing towards lessening child abuse and killings.
• It is divisive in a major way, pitting Maori and European heritage against each other and both probably against fact.
• It is a diversion at best as shown by arguments that stray into the likes of the 1098 AD records of Frankish chronicler Radulph of Caen – true or Islamic propaganda.
• And it is likely the killer of the Kahui twins knew nothing of European colonial school corporal punishment, Maori infanticide of females, or Radulph of Caen.
• Even given [for a hypothetical moment] a total ownership by Europeans of colonial violence pre 1900, why did that not effect Europeans to the same extent as Maori, or how could it extend to now through for example, two World Wars and the Depression, to destroy Maori children, like in June 2006.
• How does a supposed European pre-1900 colonial influence rate against the realities of unemployment, alcohol, tobacco and food problems?

For the same stuff.co item –

… The Office of the Children’s Commissioner is releasing its “Maori Parenting” report on Thursday in a bid to curb violence.
Prior to Europeans arriving, the report says children were considered gifts from the gods and whanau shunned child abuse.
The researchers suggested abuse arose only after Maori were introduced to corporal punishment in missionary-run classrooms.
Te Kahui Mana Ririki, the child advocacy group which commissioned the research, has reported a reduction in child abuse after running workshops based on its findings.
Chair Dr Hone Kaa said Maori parents were able to see themselves in a much more positive light. “It will serve to demonstrate to Maori they don’t have to believe they’re inherently violent,” he said.
Maori children were taught by Europeans that bad behaviour should be punished by physical violence, he said. This steered away from the traditional idea children were tapu and discipline should be avoided because it tamed the child’s spirit …

Maori may have to find mana in their own past to feel safe about the present and future. But if the past has to be falsified with lies about Europeans is that a valid? When apparently they can forget their own past violence, why do they insist on remembering a supposed European violence?

So … Chair Dr Hone Kaa said Maori parents were able to see themselves in a much more positive light. “It will serve to demonstrate to Maori they don’t have to believe they’re inherently violent.”

Find some other way to do that – without the lies!
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May 29, 2011 4:52pm
Caleb

11 Feb 1824 Paihia
“The superstition of the natives is great. So is their cruelty. Mr Turner witnesses the horrid sight of a kuki (slave), partly roasted. Petu, the girl who washed for me at Kerikeri, destroyed her own infant.”

5 Oct 1824
“We had another view of this peoples character, when Rangituki’s kuki crawled into the yard so dreadfully burnt that it chilled our blood to look at her. Rangituki and others all laughed at her, and we sent them away and got her to the back of the house to dress her-”

31 Oct 1824 Waitangi
“A most interesting conversation took place respecting the superstitious.. ‘Maoris think of none of these things’ (God), said the chief Rangi, ‘they only think, I will eat, I will fight, I will distress some poor people and take their children for slaves.’

The book; Letters from the Bay of Islands, the story of Marianne Williams publishes her letters, sent back to England and gives a very good insight into early NZ and the work of the missionaries. Marianne Williams was the wife of missionary Rev Henry Williams, who was instrumental in the signing of the Treaty of Waitangi.
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May 29, 2011 4:55pm
KH

,,,,,,,,,,,,, Yvette at 4.52 says

……… “Even given [for a hypothetical moment] a total ownership by Europeans of colonial violence pre 1900, why did that not effect Europeans to the same extent as Maori. ”

So well said Yvette
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May 29, 2011 5:10pm
Viking2

Muslim women find a new goal with AFL

The Auburn Tigers football side that trains every Wednesday is not, however, just another team. It is a primarily Muslim team. A primarily Muslim women’s football team.

“Girls don’t play sport is the big one,” she says. “My dad has that attitude and it took a while for our parents to become comfortable with it. Luckily, Dad doesn’t even know what AFL footy is, but if he ever saw me get tackled I would be in so much trouble.”

Asked if the game ever gets rough, she shrieks: “Of course it does. We are from Auburn!”
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/sport/muslim-women-find-a-new-goal-with-afl/story-e6frg7mf-1226064412743

Look out the Warriors!
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May 29, 2011 5:20pm
Black with a Vengeance

Maori need to find mana in their own past to feel safe about the present and future. But if the past has to be falsified with lies by Europeans, is that valid?

When apparently they can never forget their own past violence, why do they insist on remembering an actual European violence?

___________________________________________________________________________________________________

FIFY Yvette… the answer being in the interest of balance. History needs to be re-written. Though of course if you’ve only grown up with the sanitised Euro version then the truth will seem as lies.

BTW, Rawiri Taonui was head of Maori at Canterbury University. He never got the boot from Otago. So i guess we can’t believe you about him being a racist professional Maori either then john.bt.
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May 29, 2011 5:21pm
Johnboy

I think it is so wonderful that a descendant of a collection of damned cannibal savages, tainted by the acts of his ancestors can rise above it all and become a Professor at a University here in Godzone.

How fortunate the natives are to have had the glory of education thrust upon them by their benevolent conquerors.

Long may it continue and hopefully one day they will say thanks. 🙂
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May 29, 2011 5:35pm
Black with a Vengeance

I think it is so wonderful that a descendant of a collection of damned cannibal savages, tainted by the acts of his ancestors can rise above it all and become a Government Minister here in Godzone.

How fortunate the colonists are to have had the glory of Polynesian manhood thrust into their women by their benevolent hosts.

Long may it continue and hopefully one day they will say thanks. 🙂

_________________________________________________________________________________________________

Fixed that one for ya too Johnboy. No thanks neccessary.
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May 29, 2011 5:44pm
Johnboy

Looks like another rip off coming to light under the lax watch of Helen and her mob of incompetents.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10728770
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May 29, 2011 5:49pm
KH

Well “Black with a vengeance”
No response to my post at 4.39 then ?
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May 29, 2011 5:52pm
wat dabney

Johnboy,

You have it correct. For purely geographical reasons (Guns, Germs and Steel and all that), Maori were trapped in savagery until Europeans arrived. It is as wrong to romanticise that condition just as it would be wrong to pretend that those early Europeans exhibited anything like today’s civilised norms.

What is certain is that, for today’s Maori, the coming of Europeans centuries ago was the best thing that ever happened. Yet just listen to BwaV here complaining ‘what have the Romans ever done for us’…
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May 29, 2011 5:54pm
Johnboy

Not bad Slighty Tanned With A Chip On Your Shoulder.

But you are obviously confusing short dicked Polys (who of course derive their genes from Asians) with the immense penis’s of the African bro’s.
Something I have noticed also happens with your traditional attire (hoodie) and music (rap/reggae/whatever) I guess that’s why most of your youth waste themselves on pot and glue as well.
You are cultureless and a fucking joke into the bargain.
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May 29, 2011 5:58pm
nasska

A Maori has his first day at school. He comes home all smiles. His dad asks him how his first day went.
“great daddy. We learnt the alphabet today. I could say the whole alphabet but other kids could only get to as far as s and t. Why is that daddy is that because I am a Maori”.
“Yes son, that’s because you are a Maori” says the dad

After his second day at school he comes home all smiles. His dad asks how was it today.
“great daddy. We learnt to count to 30 today. I could count no problem but others could only get to as far as twenty or so. Why is that daddy is that because I am a Maori”.
” Yes son, that’s because you are a Maori” says the dad.

He goes to school the third day and comes home again all happy. His dad asks him how his day went.
” Well dad I was in the toilet taking a piss and I could not help noticing my knob is about 3 times bigger than the rest of the kids. Why is that daddy is that because I am a Maori”
“No son that’s because you are 26”
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May 29, 2011 6:29pm
Black with a Vengeance

No response to my post at 4.39 then ?

________________________________________________________________________________

Monkey see, monkey do.

I’m not complaining wat dabney. I’m just pointing out things were and are not as you percieve them to be, if you only hear or read one side of the story.

It’s not about size Johnboy. It’s what you do with it and white women sure do love what polynesian men do and the offspring they produce. Face it bro, you and your culture of poncing round in your silly suits and ties is dying out ?
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May 29, 2011 6:43pm
Johnboy

Little Hone gets sent to the bakers to buy a loaf of bread. On the way out he sees a pile of old flour and rolls in it.
When he gets home he says.

“Hey Mum look at me I’m a Pakeha.” She clouts him a beauty round the ear.
“Don’t you say that in this house, you are a Maaowri, be proud of it”.
“Shit” says Hone. And runs to his sisters room.

“Hey Sis look at me I’m a Pakeha.” She clouts him a beauty in the nose.
“Don’t you say that in this house, you are a Maaowri, be proud of it”.
“Jesus” says Hone. And runs to his big bro’s room.

“Hey bro look at me I’m a Pakeha.” He kicks Hone fair up the arse.
“Don’t you say that in this house, you are a Maaowri, be proud of it”.
“Fuck me” says Hone. And runs into Dad who has just come home.

“What’s wrong son” says Dad.

“Wahhhhh” says Hone “I’ve only been a Pakeha for five minutes and I hate you blackarse’s already”.
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May 29, 2011 6:43pm
nasska

Wiremu and Pania are sixty-nining when Wiremu says,
“Pania, did you know that the Government spent 2 million on repairs to the Governor General’s house last year?”
“Hell!” exclaims Pania. “That’s too much money.”
“And, “says Wiremu, “did you know that one rape occurs every ten minutes in South Auckland?”
“Hell! ” replies Pania. “Wiremu, you know everything.”
“Pania,” says Wiremu, “Did you know that Tariana Turea had her stomach stapled?”
“Really!” says Pania. “But Wiremu?” She asks, “Even though you know everything, why are you telling me all this while
we are having sex?
To which Wiremu replies, ” Remember last year, when you forgot to buy the toilet paper over the Christmas weekend, and we had to use newspaper?”
“Yes, I remember”, says Pania.
“Well,” says Wiremu, you still have page 3 of The Herald stuck to your arse.”
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May 29, 2011 6:50pm
hj

Cultural Alienation and Maori Child Homicide and Abuse (Dr Rawiri Taonui)

http://news.tangatawhenua.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/ManaTamariki-Dec2010-Final.pdf

For a start:

“Mäori are the indigenous people of New Zealand
whose origins extend back 6,000 years to a
series of Austronesian migrations through Near
and Far Oceania, Micronesia, Melanesia and
Polynesia, arriving in New Zealand between
1,000 and 2,000 years ago (Howe, 2006).”
……/
An international team of researchers, led by Dr Janet Wilmshurst from Landcare Research, spent 4 years on a study which shows conclusively that the earliest evidence for human colonisation is about 1280-1300 AD, and no earlier. They based their results on new radiocarbon dating of Pacific rat bones and rat-gnawed seeds. Their results do not support previous radiocarbon dating of Pacific rat bones.
http://www.landcareresearch.co.nz/research/research_details.asp?Research_Content_ID=50

“Britain colonized New Zealand for its resources,
signing the Treaty of Waitangi with Mäori in
1840 after which Mäori were subjected to war,
confiscation and forced sale of land. Between
1840 and 2000, Mäori lost 96% or 63.4 mil-
lion acres of their land (New Zealand History
Online, 2009).
”

NZ History online:
“War changed the face of New Zealand in the 19th century. Tens of thousands of Maori died in the intertribal Musket Wars of the 1810s, 1820s and 1830s. Muskets revolutionised intertribal warfare, decimating the population of some tribes and drastically shifting the boundaries of areas that some tribes controlled. Thousands more fled their traditional lands, freeing large areas for Pakeha (European) settlement and complicating questions of ownership.
From the 1840s to the 1870s British and colonial forces fought to open up the rest of the North Island for settlement. At the heart of this lay a volatile combination: contested issues of sovereignty following the signing of the Treaty of Waitangi in 1840, decreasing willingness to sell land to the government, and increasing pressure for land for settlement as the European population grew rapidly. Many Maori died defending their land; others allied themselves with the colonists for various reasons, often to settle old scores.

In all, there were an estimated 3000 casualties during the New Zealand Wars – the majority of them Maori. But for some Maori the wars were only the beginning, with land confiscation being the fate of many of the survivors. After the wars the struggle for land entered a new and, in some respects, more damaging phase, giving rise to a whole new chapter in New Zealand’s history.”

Demographic decline, driven by disease,
destruction, dispossession, disenfranchisement,
disempowerment, dismemberment of culture
and despair caused the Mäori population to
drop 70%, from about 150,000 in 1769 to just
44,000 in 1901 (see Poole, 1991 for a summary
of demographics).1

Footnote Michael Kings History of NZ
*100,000 was James Cooks estimate of Maori population in 1769 -70; it is also the estimate of the modern demographer Ian Pool, who believes that, if this figure is not correct, it would be on the slightly high side. Extrapolating form other data, however, including the effects of the musket wars from 1818 to 1839, a slightly higher figure, 110,000 seems more likely.

Rawiri is a bit fast and loose with the facts no?
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May 29, 2011 6:53pm
hj

my
writing is centred in kaupapa Mäori, mätau-
ranga Mäori and indigenous emancipatory
writing.

Landcare research scientist investigate muttonbirders after signing a cultural safety agreement….

Just as Māori are proud of their TEK, so too we, as practitioners of science are proud of scientific method. It has the potential to discern important predictive relationships from complex natural systems. The first muttonbirder’s diary to be statistically analysed revealed a strong correlation between annual harvest fluctuations and the Southern Oscillation Index (Lyver et al. in press.). Sophisticated statistical methods were able to identify a subtle, but ecologically very important variable influencing titi population dynamics. If a harvest is less than in the previous year, an El Nino weather pattern is predicted for the following 12 months. When a harvest increases compared with the previous year, a La Nina weather phenomenon is predicted. These lagged effects had not been noticed by the birders, and yet they point to a fundamentally important potential mechanism (climate fluctuation) for the decline in harvests and bird numbers observed in the last 10 years (Figure 1).
http://www.landcareresearch.co.nz/news/conferences/manaakiwhenua/papers/lyver.asp
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May 29, 2011 6:57pm
Johnboy

SlightyTannedWithAChipOnYourShoulder.

Your right cuz all the beautiful white women I know would far prefer to live in a Housing Corp flea pit and be regularly beaten up by a dumb, brown, pot smoking loser as long as he uses his little asiatic dick right than put up with the rich white hubby, hung like a mule, who takes them away for long romantic holidays on his company’s platinum card.

Fuck you guys really are the lucky race eh bro? 🙂
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May 29, 2011 7:03pm
Viking2

Kyoto deal loses four big nations
May 29, 2011

DEAUVILLE, France: Russia, Japan and Canada told the G8 they would not join a second round of carbon cuts under the Kyoto Protocol at United Nations talks this year and the US reiterated it would remain outside the treaty, European diplomats have said.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/environment/climate-change/kyoto-deal-loses-four-big-nations-20110528-1f9dk.html#ixzz1Niw8a1tF
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May 29, 2011 7:21pm
Black with a Vengeance

hah…who are you kidding Johnboy, you dipshit. You don’t know any beautiful white women, just bogan white trash like your mother and sisters and daughters who i bet you keep locked up in the basement to keep your bloodline real pure.

__________________________________________________________________________________

Rawiri is a bit fast and loose with the facts no?

__________________________________________________________________________________

Fact is, Polynesians visited and established outposts here long before they decided to fully colonise the place and bring the rats over. In the wider context of Polynesian migration, NZ is just another stone in the stepping that goes back 6000 years.
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May 29, 2011 7:31pm
Johnboy

SlightyTannedWithAGiantChipOnYourShoulderAndABrainToMatchTheSizeOfYourDick.

You’ve got me there bro. What else can a poor white trash boy do but lock his women in a cellar for fear of them having their passions ignited by a giant brown intellect like you. 🙂
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May 29, 2011 7:48pm
Black with a Vengeance

Awww JohnYouPoorWeeBoyWithAWeeDickToMatchYourBoyishPseudonym.

Must be way past your bedtime. Run along now, and wait for Big Daddy to come give you a goodnight fondle. 🙂
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May 29, 2011 7:55pm
Johnboy

Chucked the towel in then have you. Just another slightly brown loser I guess.

Nice to see you are copying my intro. 🙂

Like I said earlier you poor bro’s have no culture you just parrot the more intelligent folks. 🙂
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May 29, 2011 8:00pm
KH

……….# Black with a Vengeance says “…….In the wider context of Polynesian migration, NZ is just another stone in the stepping that goes back 6000 years……”

and on also could say.
In the wider context of European Migration, NZ is just another stone in the stepping that goes back 6000 years.

Now. What again was your point from your statement quoted above ?

Also: Re my post at 4.39 pm. You have no answer ?
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May 29, 2011 8:05pm
Black with a Vengeance

G’night Johnboy

G’night Uncle Pa 🙂
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May 29, 2011 8:07pm
hj

Fact is, Polynesians visited and established outposts here long before they decided to fully colonise the place and bring the rats over. In the wider context of Polynesian migration, NZ is just another stone in the stepping that goes back 6000 years.
……
Most indigenous researchers are familiar with the complicated juggling acts involved when applying the
skills of academic scholarship to the way we think about tribal communities. If we are not keen of eye
and deft on our feet, one set of perspectives can upstage the importance of the other. On the other hand,
if we try to keep the two worlds forever apart, we risk losing a sense of place in both these domains.
Indigenous scholars are often rather isolated within universities and institutions and it is important that
we find ways of keeping in touch with our colleagues and the strategies they have devised for working
alongside indigenous communities on matters of mutual concern. It is also important that we contribute
to the dialogues and debates that take place within our communities and ensure, whenever we can, that
tribal voices are heard inside the universities, as well as within our own disciplines.
http://www.maramatanga.ac.nz/sites/default/files/TKC%202005.pdf

Western knowledge systems are based on single verifiable facts. Indigenous systems are based on whatever people are prepared to believe.
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May 29, 2011 8:13pm
Hurf Durf

Oh shit.

Hundreds of suspected al-Qaeda gunmen have captured the southern Yemeni city of Zinjibar after heavy fighting with security forces.

Government officials said that the provincial capital was under the control of militants after fighting that began on Friday and had claimed 16 lives, including civilians.

The fighters “were able to gain control of the city of Zinjibar … and took over all government facilities” a security official told AFP. Only the headquarters of the the 25th mechanised brigade was holding out, he added, but it was besieged by the gunmen.

Looks like Libya isn’t the only place the cruise missiles will be falling on soon.
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May 29, 2011 8:14pm
Johnboy

Guess it’s to hard for a Murri to drill a hole in the anchor stone these days let alone cut the flax and weave the rope! 🙂

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/5051905/Maori-warned-over-ageing-foreign-fishing-boats

Better to be rewriting history and creating a new brighter past for the bro’s to believe in. 🙂
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May 29, 2011 8:14pm
hj

Black with a vengeance has departed for the night on a flying pig.
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May 29, 2011 8:26pm
Johnboy

As Corporal Jones used to say. Them Fuzzi Wuzzis do not like the cold steel up em! 🙂
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May 29, 2011 8:31pm
hj

You’d have to wonder how indigenous researchers … “familiar with the complicated juggling acts” get to where they do in the academic sphere of things .. no? Most of us wouldn’t get a good grade with a “complicated juggling act”.
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May 29, 2011 8:33pm

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