General Debate 17 May 2011

Email
Facebook
Twitter
Comment57

Uncategorized
General Debate

Comments (57)

Login to comment or vote

flipper

So, one wonders, whether PHARMAC, Morgan, Morrison et al, will get an invitation to the secretive, foreign interest lobby group, Saunders-Unsworth (sounds better than Unsworth Saunders) annual party for MPs and hacks.
The MPs, hacks and bloggers would be seen to be somewhat more ethical if they required Unsworth Saunders to make a full public declaration of interest by publishing a list of their clients and the nature of their efforts on their behalf.
The weekend news coverage of their (The U-S) campaign against PHARMAC , drawing public opposition from Morgan, Morrison et al, is just one good reason why U-S overtures should be boycotted until there is legislation requiring registration of all private lobbyists. When O’Reilly or Thompson or Kelly or Little argue for a position, everyone knows from whence they come. When the late Stan (The Man) Mann held court, everyone knew it was on behalf of Todd Family interests.
But U-S? Time for an URGENT change!
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
May 17, 2011 8:36am
Murray

Does one?

And how are the corgis today flipper?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
May 17, 2011 8:40am
Tauhei Notts

I think I have stumbled upon one possible reason why there are so many fat arsed women in our country.
I bought four packets of chocolate sultana pastie biscuits. I noticed that there were 16 biscuits in each packet. Then I checked the cost.
Yes, 192 chocolate sultana pastie biscuits cost as much as one packet of cigarettes.
Think about that next time you see some obese harridan waddling down the street.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
May 17, 2011 8:41am
tester

These poor people! The “government” appears to be holding a gun to their head and FORCING them to receive Working for Families and FORCING their daughter to endure a free education.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10726086
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
May 17, 2011 8:46am
Manolo

I reckon another hui is needed:

A 21-year-old man is in a serious condition after being beaten with numerous weapons including bats and steel pipes by a group of 10 to 15 youths in Tokoroa this afternoon.

The incident took place about 1.30pm on Jedburgh Street at a residential address, Detective Sergeant Kevan Verry, of Tokoroa CIB, said. The group were mainly Maori or Polynesian youths aged 15-25 years, all wearing some form of blue clothing and were last seen running along Kelso Street. There were several girls with the group, Mr Verry said.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10726054
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
May 17, 2011 8:46am
Manolo

Strife and infighting among the racists:

Titewhai Harawira faces a possible ban from Te Tii Marae after being accused of “rancidification of Maori protocols” at a recent Maori Party hui.

In an e-mail to the Herald, seven board members from the lower marae at Waitangi said they were disappointed protocols such as manaakitanga (looking after people and agreeing to disagree), whanaungatanga (strengthening families) and kaitiakitanga (caring for resources or people) were becoming meaningless to “a pocket of Maori people”.

“But the behaviour of Titewhai Harawira during a Taitokerau Maori Party hui … her blatant breach of Maori protocol as a Maori person, the hate tactics being used to create dissension within the Ngapuhi tribe and division with the subtribes, and the taint of her foul language in our house of ancestors, on a marae which is significant to both Maori and Pakeha, is not acceptable.”

At that hui, two weekends ago, the Harawira family doyenne – who has the distinction of reducing former Prime Minister Helen Clark to tears – called Maori Party co-leader Tariana Turia a “bloody liar” and a “snake”. She accused Mrs Turia and Maori Affairs Minister Pita Sharples of hanging off Prime Minister John Key’s jockstraps.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
May 17, 2011 8:53am
Inventory2

Quite so Manolo – great to see the elders of Te Tii marae condemning Titewhai Harawira’s appalling behaviour the other week

http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2011/05/standing-up-to-titewhai.html
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
May 17, 2011 9:01am
flipper

Murray (7569)…..
To paraphrase…
“You have blogged (Sat here) too long for any good that you are doing. Stop (Depart), I say, and lets have done with you. In the name of the Corgis (God), go!”.

-Cromwell, later Avery.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
May 17, 2011 9:14am
KiwiGreg

“accused Mrs Turia and Maori Affairs Minister Pita Sharples of hanging off Prime Minister John Key’s jockstraps. ”

They would need to be some seriously strong jock straps.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
May 17, 2011 9:15am
BeaB

But he’d need them.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
May 17, 2011 9:35am
Yvette

Is Joe Karam a conspiracy theorist with only one conspiracy – like someone who believes 9/11 is a false flag self-inflicted job, but doesn’t have the vital proof. Joe believes David didn’t kill the rest of the Bain family, but he cannot actually prove it, so in fact it remains a ‘conspiracy theory’ in which he has involved himself, with a passion which has wrecked a toll on his own life.

As quoted before, Michael Burge, Australian College of Trauma Treatment, on conspiracy theorists –
Their conspiracy theory becomes an introjected (unconsciously adopted) part of their identity and forms part of a relationship with themselves and if that is removed it is like removing part of their brain. They feel annihilated and destroyed on some level, not necessarily physically but emotionally, so therefore they act like they are fighting for survival, and they will find some way to dismiss the information no matter how rational and scientific [it is].

What would happen to Joe Karam if David was to say to him, “Joe, I did it.”
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
May 17, 2011 9:37am
wreck1080

John Key is moving to the hard left as far as I can tell.

He now believes that not having working for families is ‘radical’.

He believes raising the pension age is radical .

He believes charging interest on student loans is radical.

And, his government spends more as a percentage of GDP than labour ever did.

Link….

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10726081

This budget does not look to affect me at all. I was unable to claim any money from Helen Clarks schemes – now that John Key is tweaking them I am unaffected. In someways I am lucky that I did not qualify for middle/upper class welfare.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
May 17, 2011 9:42am
MT_Tinman

Having seen pictures of many of “leaders” of the Maori party I find the term rancidification (Manolo 08:53) interesting.

I suppose it beats stomach stapling.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
May 17, 2011 9:46am
Pete George

He now believes that not having working for families is ‘radical’.
He believes charging interest on student loans is radical.

A sudden major change to either would be radical, it would have immediate adverse effects on many people and families, which would flow through to the rest of the economy. Whether you like the schemes or not, sudden removal is not reasonable or feasible.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
May 17, 2011 9:56am
Murray

flipper: get over ones self.

Me.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
May 17, 2011 10:36am
publicwatchdog

Seen this?

birdflu666.wordpress.com/2011/05/16/arrest-of-imf-chief-threatens-to-derail-banksters-plans/

The arrest of IMF chief Dominique Strauss-Kahn on sexual-assault charges represents a seismic blow to the efforts of the global financial elite to bury the euro and dollar currency blocs and replace the dollar-demoninated global monetrary system with an IMF and UN-run currency.

The arrest in New York on Sunday prevented Strauss-Khan from going to Europe to participate in key meetings and press for a ruinous policy of penal IMF/EU bailouts and the arrest also comes at a time when the dollar bloc is facing a default or hyperinflation due to the size of its national debt and replacement by the IMF’s new currency.

The US has to increase its $14.3trn debt ceiling once more to prevent the government defauling — and allow time to be bought to seize the Federal Reserve back from the bankers? — and the eurozone and IMF finance chiefs have to decide how to deal with the imminent problem of an insolvent Greece amid growing opposition to more bailouts, increasingly recognised as a covet wealth transfer scheme.
……………..”

Penny Bright
http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
May 17, 2011 11:07am
publicwatchdog

# flipper (213) Says:
May 17th, 2011 at 8:36 am

So, one wonders, whether PHARMAC, Morgan, Morrison et al, will get an invitation to the secretive, foreign interest lobby group, Saunders-Unsworth (sounds better than Unsworth Saunders) annual party for MPs and hacks.
The MPs, hacks and bloggers would be seen to be somewhat more ethical if they required Unsworth Saunders to make a full public declaration of interest by publishing a list of their clients and the nature of their efforts on their behalf.
The weekend news coverage of their (The U-S) campaign against PHARMAC , drawing public opposition from Morgan, Morrison et al, is just one good reason why U-S overtures should be boycotted until there is legislation requiring registration of all private lobbyists. When O’Reilly or Thompson or Kelly or Little argue for a position, everyone knows from whence they come. When the late Stan (The Man) Mann held court, everyone knew it was on behalf of Todd Family interests.
But U-S? Time for an URGENT change!”
________________________________________________________________________________________________

Strange, don’t you think ‘Flipper’ – that NZ ‘perceived’ to be the ‘least corrupt country in the world’ (along with Singapore and Denmark, according to Transparency International’s 2010 ‘Corruption Perception Index’) – doesn’t have a legislative requirement for the following:

A ‘Register of Lobbyists’?

An enforceable ‘Code of Conduct’ for MPs ?

An enforceable ‘Code of Conduct’ for Local Government elected representatives?

An enforceable ‘Code of Conduct’ for Judges?

A ‘Register of Pecuniary Interests’ for Judges?

A ‘Register of Pecuniary Interests’ for Local Government elected representatives?

A ‘Register of Pecuniary Interests’ for local government and central government staff responsible for property and/or procurement?

An ‘Independent Commission Against Corruption’ – a statutory third party responsible for PREVENTING corruption and educating the public about corruption?

………………………………………….

Pity the NZ corruption ‘perception’ is not based on ‘reality’?

If NZ is ‘perceived’ to be the least corrupt country (along with Singapore and Denmark, according to Transparency International’s 2010 ‘Corruption Perception Index’) – then shouldn’t we be the most TRANSPARENT?

So – why aren’t we?

Penny Bright
http://waterpressure.wordpress.com

Attendee: Australian Public Sector Anti-Corruption Conference 2009 (Brisbane).
Attendee: Transparency International 14th Anti-Corruption Conference 2010 (Bangkok)
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
May 17, 2011 11:23am
publicwatchdog

# Tauhei Notts (869) Says:
May 17th, 2011 at 8:41 am

I think I have stumbled upon one possible reason why there are so many fat arsed women in our country.
I bought four packets of chocolate sultana pastie biscuits. I noticed that there were 16 biscuits in each packet. Then I checked the cost.
Yes, 192 chocolate sultana pastie biscuits cost as much as one packet of cigarettes.
Think about that next time you see some obese harridan waddling down the street.”
___________________________________________________________________________________________________

Of course ‘Tauhei Notts’, all NZ males are fit, toned ‘Greek Gods’?

Penny Bright
http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
May 17, 2011 11:40am
Sofia

Seen this?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/16/dominique-strauss-khan-tristane-banon

“…A French writer who claims Dominique Strauss-Kahn sexually assaulted her nine years ago is to file an official complaint, her lawyer has announced.

Tristane Banon previously described the attack, which happened when she was in her early 20s, in a television programme in 2007, when she called Strauss-Kahn, whose name was bleeped out, a “rutting chimpanzee.”

She says she consulted a lawyer at the time, but was persuaded not to take action by her mother, a regional councillor in the Socialist party and friend of the Strauss-Kahn family. Banon is goddaughter to Strauss-Kahn’s second wife.”
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
May 17, 2011 11:52am
Komata

Aaaa, ze French, ze know all about ze lurve non?

Pepe Le Pieu comes immediately to mind. . .
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
May 17, 2011 12:13pm
OECD rank 22 kiwi

So John Key thinks there will be substantial wage and job growth over the next two years. When did John Key become a comedian?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
May 17, 2011 12:53pm
Viking2

And prudent budget management is hard right! Really.
And lowering Govt. spending back to where it was before he became Minister of Spend- hard right.
HMMM
Will have to think about that.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
May 17, 2011 1:04pm
Manolo

Disgraceful smile and wave Key speaking in favour of things he attacked before the last elction:

Prime Minister John Key says new ACT Party leader Don Brash’s proposals are ”hardcore”, after scanning over his ”Dear John” letter on Government borrowing. In his post-cabinet press conference today, Mr Key said the letter sent last week where Dr Brash outlined why he had resigned National and joined ACT was a ”marketing tool”.

‘‘Everyone needs to understand that what Don Brash is talking about is hardcore. ”It’s basically raise the pension age, get rid of Working For Families, put interest back on student loans, slash Government expenditure. Yes, you’d spend less, and by the way a lot of New Zealanders would, I think, come out the back end of that in much worse financial position that they are in.”
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
May 17, 2011 1:59pm
ciaron

Is there a code of conduct or registry of pecuniary interests for say; professional agitators?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
May 17, 2011 3:29pm
Rex Widerstrom

ciaron:

Penny supports a “register of Lobbyists” (as do I, and I support all the other suggestions on her list). But I do wonder how one (sorry, flipper made me say it) defines “lobbyist”?

Australia defines a lobbyist thus:

Any lobbyist who acts on behalf of third-party clients for the purposes of lobbying Government representatives must be registered on the Register of Lobbyists and must comply with the requirements of the Lobbying Code of Conduct.

So that captures, say, Saunders Unsworth but not Garth McVicar and certainly not Penny. And it captures me sometimes (when working professionally) but arguably not others (when working pro bono, especially for an organisation in which I am an office holder).

Personally, I’d set a minimum standard but also make it open, so anyone not caught by the standard could voluntarily register. You could then invite Penny (or anyone else you felt fitted the “lobbyist” description) to do so. I’d certainly send a little note to McVicar, inviting him to disclose where SST’s funding comes from.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
May 17, 2011 4:39pm
Nookin

” I’d certainly send a little note to McVicar, inviting him to disclose where SST’s funding comes from.”
And what about public watchdogs who openly solicit money from the public for a variety of causes and who are not incorprated or limited by consitutional objectives. Should they be accountable to the public for money that they solicit and spend?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
May 17, 2011 5:40pm
Tauhei Notts

I would imagine that if Penny Bright (following on from her 11.40 a.m. post) wanted to enjoy the pleasures of the flesh only grossly overweight slobs would be able to tolerate her.
My wife was born in Epirus and refers to me as
“Adonis mou”.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
May 17, 2011 5:43pm
nasska

NZ Entertainment News – Water Woman to star in musical of her own life.
Office of Film & Literature Classification – This film contains no scenes of a sexual nature.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
May 17, 2011 5:52pm
Rex Widerstrom

Nookin: Damn right they should.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
May 17, 2011 5:53pm
Fletch

Front of New York Post today – LOL
Real classy…..
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
May 17, 2011 6:03pm
flipper

Well, well…..
Lobbying is NOT about graft. It is about being up-front.

Amazing that it took a few hours, but it is nice to have some sensible input on an issue that needs serious thought.

As for McVicar …… Ask him about RP et al.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
May 17, 2011 6:05pm
Nookin

Rex
I agree entirely. I have asked Penny that very question on numerous occasions but seem to have some difficulty extracting an answer. It is even more disturbing now that she is standing as a candidate for local body elections
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
May 17, 2011 6:12pm
Rex Widerstrom

Nookin:

As someone who – like Penny – has shouted long and loud about openness in politics I instructed that every donation made to my own two campaigns should be disclosed by my campaign committee to anyone upon request (we couldn’t put small ones in the returns, it wasn’t allowed). Frankly, if someone wants to give me money then I want them to do it on the basis that they agree with me and/or admire me and, that being the case, why shouldn’t they be prepared to say so?

For anyone to say “good on ya, here’s a donation… but just don’t say where it came from” seems to me to be illogical.

There were of course cash donations ranging from gold coins to the odd $20 note – handed to campaigners in the street – for which we didn’t get names. But if anyone got the chequebook out, or started flicking through fifties, they were told their support was needed, welcomed, and would be known by anyone who wanted to know. And not one person put their money away again.

I can’t of course dictate what Penny does and she need only comply with the law. But someone promoting a principle should do more than simply follow the rule of law, IMO, they should set an example.

flipper:

RP et al? Care to elaborate? Off-blog if you like – RexWiderstrom [at] hotmail [dot] com
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
May 17, 2011 6:30pm
reid

Lobbying is NOT about graft. It is about being up-front. Amazing that it took a few hours, but it is nice to have some sensible input on an issue that needs serious thought.

It’s completely corrupted US politics hasn’t it, so let’s not do it like they do, whatever we do with it.

Here it is very low key, of course it happens but its not an undue influence here but there, it is, partly due to the sums involved in running political campaigns every six years.

What we need, is openness. As Penny says, we need sunlight.

It should be required for every lobbyist to document every contact they have with a client or politician, at their expense. It could be digital recordings or it could be minutes. Those minutes will be attested to for accuracy by all participants at every meeting, without fail. Penalties are high – imprisonment – if anyone fails to do this for every single contact or who attests to the accuracy of false material.

It’s of course sometimes necessary not to go public immediately with some long term significant proposals, like getting rid of Pharmac for example. Imagine if Big Pharma really wanted to do that. Now if we had this regime in place, when would be the best time to release that stuff? The lefties would say as early as possible, Big Pharma would say never. Therefore that documentation should be passed to an appropriate authority who judges the right time to release it. They could release it sooner, but they must release it, in good time to have a public debate about any actions that are taken arising from it: e.g. at the first reading of any bill.

That’d fuck em, wouldn’t it.

It is even more disturbing now that she is standing as a candidate for local body elections

I’m fairly disturbed Nookin that I suspect she will garner more than one vote, that’s really disturbing. I mean, who would, but some will, I guarantee.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
May 17, 2011 6:35pm
alex Masterley

Thread drift.
The end of the world made the Walrus’s show.
People are taking this seriously. Bloody hell!
I’d better get the dinner suit dry cleaned after all.
My problem now that I’ve sorted the attire and the drink is what brand of cigars and port I get in to accompany the fair trade coffee I intend to savour as the big event unfolds, or not as the case may be.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
May 17, 2011 7:15pm
Steve

I just would like to post this link:
http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/8e464776e6/the-navy-seal-who-killed-osama-bin-laden?rel=player
I like it. If you don’t like it then fucking hard cheese
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
May 17, 2011 7:29pm
reid

The end of the world made the Walrus’s show.

Crikey this could be important alex. Does everyone have their water and candles?

Right, head for a bit of land with no buildings which you don’t think is going to split between your feet when it hits and hurl you into a gaping canyon that’s just opened up, and hold tight. Lash yourself to some tent pegs or something. Bags not the last one to be lashed.

The bugger is, since we’re the first ones, we don’t get to watch CNN as it rolls across the rest of the world. Isn’t that a shame.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
May 17, 2011 7:45pm
reid

Perhaps I’ll fly to NY and watch it from there. The skyscrapers would have to give you a good view as it rolls in, you’d have to think.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
May 17, 2011 7:53pm
nasska

I’m afraid I’m not up to speed on the etiquette at these affairs. Are you required to be sober? Is it ladies a plate? A gold coin donation?

I’d hate to cause offense to other attendees.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
May 17, 2011 8:01pm
reid

I’d hate to cause offense to other attendees.

That’s right, when the end comes, you want dignity, and an orchestra.

Some good drugs would be handy, as well.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
May 17, 2011 8:07pm
Pete George

The steady boring approach to politics gets good coverage by Bryce Edwards.

He compiles articles suggesting that the cautious centrist approach by both National and Labour is simply a sign of the times.

“revolutionary or ‘big bang’ approaches to changing society and economies are destined to failure, and what really works is non-ideological, incremental improvements based on evidence and trials. ”

Better get used to it.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
May 17, 2011 8:17pm
alex Masterley

nasska,
I’m checking the protocol books.
Sobriety is a matter of choice. I’m getting catering in rather than the plate thing, so a gold coin donation would be welcome.
I do like the idea of musical accompaniament. The NZSO may be going spare so they could be a good choice. I wonder if something stirring like Carmina Burana is in their repetiore.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
May 17, 2011 8:27pm
cha

Front of New York Post today – LOL
Real classy…..

Um..do try to keep up Fletch
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
May 17, 2011 8:33pm
reid

“revolutionary or ‘big bang’ approaches to changing society and economies are destined to failure, and what really works is non-ideological, incremental improvements based on evidence and trials. ”

Better get used to it.

I’m not sure I can Pete. Not with the leftist slant in the centre we have here. Nothing, to the left, is “non-ideological” which wouldn’t be a bad thing were not every single idea they have about how an economy actually works is wrong, and therefore when they hear even a quite reasonable idea, they ~~think, nay they know it’s~~ mistake it for, right-wing-facism. This means that even quite mild and reasonable ideas often get turned down, under the conditions in that quote.

Fuck that.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
May 17, 2011 8:34pm
Fletch

cha, sorry, now that I’m working, I don’t have time to read all the posts. I just kind of make a comment here and there without looking 🙂
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
May 17, 2011 8:54pm
nasska

A bloke’s wife goes missing while diving off the West Australian coast. He reports the event, searches fruitlessly and spends a terrible night wondering what could have happened to her. Next morning there’s a knock at the door and he is confronted by a couple of policemen, the old Sarge and a younger Constable.

The Sarge says, ‘Mate, we have some news for you, unfortunately some really bad news, but, some good news, and maybe some more good news’.
‘Well,’ says the bloke, ‘I guess I’d better have the bad news first?’

The Sarge says, ‘I’m really sorry mate, but your wife is dead. Young Bill here found her lying at about five fathoms in a little cleft in the reef. He got a line around her and we pulled her up, but she was dead.’ The bloke is naturally pretty distressed to hear of this and has a bit of a turn. But after a few minutes he pulls himself together and asks what the good news is. The Sarge says, ‘Well when we got your wife up there were quite a few really good sized crays and a swag of nice crabs attached to her, so we’ve brought you your share.’ He hands the bloke a sugar bag with a couple of nice crays and four or five crabs in it.
‘Geez thanks. They’re bloody beauties. I guess it’s an ill wind and all that… so what’s the other possible good news?’

‘Well’, the Sarge says, ‘if you fancy a quick trip, me and young Bill here get off duty at around 11 o’clock and we’re gonna shoot over there and pull her up again!’
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
May 17, 2011 9:03pm
reid

Few interesting comments on US-Pak relations:

A Pak perspective:
http://www.opinion-maker.org/2011/05/pakistan-pak-us-ties/

One of the potential consequences:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/14/pakistan-nato-afghanistan-bin-laden

What’s already happened:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/al-qaeda/8513920/Osama-bin-Laden-dead-angry-Pakistan-drops-intelligence-sharing-with-West.html
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
May 17, 2011 9:04pm
Mick Mac

nasska
deliciously horrible 🙂
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
May 17, 2011 9:52pm
reid

Now how inappropriate is this?

Using 12-year-olds to make a political point?

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10726174

This is what happens when lefties conflate “the cause” with actual humanity, which they do quite a lot.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
May 17, 2011 9:55pm
Mick Mac

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10726209

WTF.
Why weren’t they prosecuted for aiding and abetting Andrew Mears?
Without their assistance he couldn’t have killed her!
If I helped one of you break into a place I would be prosecuted too surely?
This adds insult to injury to Rosemary Ives family.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
May 17, 2011 10:09pm
reid

MM to be guilty you need intent: i.e. there is evidence you were soliciting someone to commit a felicitous act.

Wasn’t there.

Carelessness was.

Going from the media outline thus far provided.

Could be wrong, but suspect this explains what happened there.

Or to put it another way, it was a tragedy not a crime, but the law still has to apply as it should.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
May 17, 2011 10:21pm
Bobbie black

Pakistani PM hails China as his country’s ‘best friend’

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13418957

This will piss India off
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
May 17, 2011 11:43pm
reid

“This will piss India off”

Yeah but the message is directed to the US.

And is incredibly pointed, seeing as the US and China would easily become mortal enemies in this part of the world at this time.

Given the US paranoia about all things terrorist and all things communist.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
May 18, 2011 1:54am
Viking2

Breastfeeding.

I see another mother is furious after she was asked to cover up while she was breastfeeding her baby in a Timaru café.

Apparently the owner of the café has received many abusive phone calls and has laid a complaint with the police.

This is another clear incident where there is a gross disrespect and ignorance for the right of property owners.

It is this sort of outburst, which indicates that at grass roots the basic principles of a civil society are soundly lacking.

Whether a person chooses to go fishing, or to build a house, or to go grocery shopping, or to open a cafe, or to report the news, they morally must be left free to do so. Each individual has a moral right to their own life, which means: a moral right to act as their life requires, which means: on the judgment of their own mind.

But the above rights depend on yet another right—one without which they, and all other rights, would be meaningless: the right to property. Without property rights, no other rights are possible. Since man has to sustain his life by his own effort, the man who has no right to the product of his own effort has no means to sustain his life.

This means that the owner of the Timaru café has the right to set the standard of behavior within her property, just like we all have within our homes. The fact that the café is a place where the public can receive a service does not change the private property principle. She is the sole judge of what is in her interest and therefore presents her business as she requires.

As she commented “ ….it was a very busy afternoon and I was shocked at the level of exposure…her shirt was unbuttoned all the way down and it was very exposed.”

This is simply the setting of a standard which the owner deems appropriate for her business.

Interesting the hypocrisy. The person doing the breastfeeding wanted to set her standard but the café owner was nor allowed to set hers, especially as all she was asked to do was cover her three month old daughter with a baby blanket.

http://www.nzcpr.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1121&sid=d570cb386ba51724ecc20924208bc509&p=35756#p35756
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
May 18, 2011 6:38am
RRM

You actually aren’t allowed to discriminate against breastfeeding mothers V2, it’s against the law.

If it were not, then as you say surely the cafe owner has the right to expect certain standards of behaviour in his own shop.

And members of the general public have the right to say the cafe owner is a cnut for saying that, and to go elsewhere, as some are doing.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
May 18, 2011 7:23am
RRM

Anne “C-” Tolley:

Principals, if you can’t implement national standards, can you at least pretend you are, and try to pull the wool over peoples’ eyes?

Better, smarter education, brought to you by your National Government 😛
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
May 18, 2011 7:27am
Falafulu Fisi

RRM said…
You actually aren’t allowed to discriminate against breastfeeding mothers V2, it’s against the law.

The law is wrong. It is a violation of property rights (of the cafe owner). The rights to the cafe or bar belongs to the owner not the public or customers nor even bureaucrats & politicians. If the bar or cafe is to be renovated or the owner needs to hire more staffs, it is him/her that comes up with the money and not the bureaucrats. It is the owner that will have to bear the risks and not consumers. The law comes in and say, hey owner you forfeit your rights to customers.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
May 18, 2011 8:05am

Add a Comment Cancel reply

Login to comment or vote

« Bain to speak at Injustice conference

No Trump for President »

Donations

You can now donate to Kiwiblog

Exclusive content from DPF on Patreon

Become a Patron!

Never miss a post

Email Address

Join 37.4K other subscribers

Highlights

Health Target 5 – elective treatments
Health Target 4 – Specialist appointments
Health Target 3 – Emergency Dept Waiting Times
Health Target 2 – Immunisations

Links

Woman of the day
Hompaddock
You all understand these gang patch bans will get challenged in Court right?
The Daily Blog
Its A Funny Old Game.
No Minister
Its official: the Royal Society of NZ’s race-based funding is a constitutional requirement.
Point of Order
Band Aid at 40
Utopia
Open mike 23/11/2024
The Standard
Justice in Brazil
No Right Turn
"Seymour is only doing openly what M?ori nationalists and their Pakeha allies have been doing, quietly for the past 50 years."
Not PC
The transgender agenda sunk Kamala
Bob McCoskrie's McBlog
SETTING THE RECORD STRAIGHT
No Punches Pulled (Bob Jones)
What does “reciprocity” mean in New Zealand laws?
Croaking Cassandra
A Day of Reckoning
NZCPR
Media Link: “A View from Afar” on the US elections.
Kiwipolitico
This will not end well
Offsetting Behaviour
Top 14 Predictions for Round 10
Stats Chat
Tory Whanau may have to sell Wellington mayoralty to make ends meet
The Civilian
The Accidental Engagement
Imperator Fish
Legal Beagle: Election '23: The Special Votes
Public Address
Making this movie might have been a mistake
Liam Hehir
Why I am retiring from political blogging
Kiwi FireWalker
Angie Warren-Clark: Meet the Newbies
Dan Moskovitz

editor@kiwiblog.co.nz

PO Box 12270, Thorndon, Wellington 6144

Facebook
Twitter
FourSquare
Instagram
LinkedIn
Google+

Archives
Disclosure Statement
Editorial Policy
Privacy Policy
Complaints Policy
Comments Policy

Design by cre8d