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May 15, 2011 8:00am by David Farrar

General Debate 15 May 2011

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Yvette

Matt McCarten: “…Urewera trial delay to hide egg on faces…”
Posted on 15/5/2011 by admin

“…Remember those domestic terrorists who were discovered right under our noses in the Ureweras nearly four years ago?
Well, the court case against them, which was to start on the 30th of this month, is falling apart. On Thursday the courts announced the case had been delayed another year.
Insiders tell me the priority for the anti-terrorism unit and the police hierarchy is to continue to drag the whole matter out as long as they can.
There is a strong possibility that if the Supreme Court suppresses or dismisses some of the police evidence (which is likely) the prosecutors can then claim on that basis they can’t proceed with the case.
That will give them an excuse to apply to have everything permanently suppressed. That way they get all the senior players who started this nonsense off the hook.
But we shouldn’t forget what they did. Former prime minister Helen Clark, the police commissioner Howard Broad and the entire anti-terrorism unit hyped themselves into believing a secret cell was about to launch a terror campaign against the citizens of this country …
– http://whoar.co.nz/
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May 15, 2011 8:04am
Pete George

How many here are happy with the adversarial dominant parliament we currently have, where bringing down the government or other parties is a major focus of attention?

Too negative? Ok? Not enough conflict?
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May 15, 2011 8:13am
Longknives

Ye Gods…If training and planning to blow up of dams, proposed mass killing of ‘Pakehas’, and plotting to assassinate the Prime Minister isn’t ‘Terrorism’ then what the hell is Mr McCarten?
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May 15, 2011 8:18am
peterwn

Yvette – re Urewera trial delay.
1. They are facing serious firearms and explosives charges which can carry quite serious jail time.
2. The trial is further delayed because of their appeal to the Supreme Court against an Appeal Court decision affirming that the trial would be before a judge alone.
3. The defendants are pulling every political trick in the book to try and escape these charges.
4. They have sympathy from Matt McCarten and other lefties with anarchist tendencies.
5. What would the public think if they had actually used the weapons and explosives against ordinary Kiwis. Prople would have expected the Police etc to be on the ball with respect to this.
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May 15, 2011 8:20am
MT_Tinman

Mr McCarten wouldn’t have any connection with an anti-human, pro (maori) racism party currently polluting NZ would he?
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May 15, 2011 8:32am
reid

Isn’t it odd how Matt never talks about the evidence against them.
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May 15, 2011 8:35am
iMP

ABORTION, SCHOOLS & PARENTS. This is such a tricky issue (privacy) for 16 year old girls, but it kinda sucks that parents are completely left out of the loop on this. Dalziel (not the poli, the sister) says, “”If that protection [privacy] disappeared, you can pretty well guarantee the young person won’t tell the [school] counsellor a thing – particularly the thing you need them to talk about.”

So a law is in place to ensure school counsellors can be trusted and can get the info. they need. I woulda thought it was the parents who really needed the info., so they could give the kids the help they need. State over family, what a screwed up world. Since when were teachers the best option to assist an under 16 year old thru an abortion, rather than a loving mother, a caring dad?
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May 15, 2011 8:38am
reid

Interesting article on Japan’s debt. Apparently it’s 227% of GDP. That’s quite high, isn’t it.
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May 15, 2011 8:42am
MyNameIsJack

Since when were teachers the best option to assist an under 16 year old thru an abortion, rather than a loving mother, a caring dad?

Yes, it would be best if the girl involved had been able to have the abortion with the support of her parents, but as commentors on this blog often delight in pointing out,not all children are raised in loving, caring households.

And sadly, not all children are raised in households where sex and sexuallity are freely and openly discussed.

Perhaps this is an opportunity for “Helen” and other parents to actually engage with their children and have frank and open discussions.

Did you read the Herald article to the end? If so, you would have alos found the uplifting story of Rayelene Mou, a younger girl than “Helen’s” daughter,a nd yet one who was able to have a discussion with her mother that resulted in a good, loving outcome.

sadly, the world is full of “Helens”, without the time to parent, but with plenty of time to moan.
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May 15, 2011 8:46am
MyNameIsJack

reid (7,190) Says:

May 15th, 2011 at 8:35 am
Isn’t it odd how Matt never talks about the evidence against them.

Could it be, that like me,and no doubt you, Matt hasn’t seen the “evidence against them” and is waiting for it to be shown and tested in court?

The old saw “Justice delayed is justice denied” applies quite well in this case, not just justice for those charged, but for those bringing the charges, and for you and me, in whose name the charges have been brought.
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May 15, 2011 8:50am
Caleb

to busy paying tax and living, to parent? got to keep the councilors and teachers employed.
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May 15, 2011 8:52am
reid

Could it be, that like me,and no doubt you, Matt hasn’t seen the “evidence against them” and is waiting for it to be shown and tested in court?

Yes Jack, I was thinking about those transcripts that were released last month. It’s interesting that building molotov cocktails and practicing with them and practicing how to be a sniper and talking about taking a lot of people with you when you go, is seen by some as entirely innocent, mere boyish fun. Especially in these terror-aware times, just precisely what does anyone who thinks expect the authorities to do if they find out about such practices in future? Leave them alone? It’s just boyish fun?

The old saw “Justice delayed is justice denied” applies quite well in this case,

Yes Jack but when the defendants are themselves responsible for dragging it out, why is that a violation of justice?

Really Jack, you should try a bit harder, at least make it interesting. Perhaps next time.
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May 15, 2011 8:55am
iMP

SUICIDE. My wife is American; we often discuss WHY NZ has such a high suicide rate. We’ve concluded a few things:
1. Isolation
2. Increasingly secular society (that offers no hope)
3. the British temperament to denigrate rather than uplift.

When we go to the States, I am immediately struck by the default personality of Yanks that is positive, uplifting, supportive and encouraging. It is a generalisation, but Americans celebrate success, Kiwis are envious and knock it down, our default setting. Kiwi women realised this during the War; there was such a stock difference between American and Kiwi men in the 1940s.

It’s way more complex (mental health is an epidemic in NZ too), but maybe 1-3 are part of the reason.
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May 15, 2011 8:59am
tristanb

Helen, not her real name, found out about the termination four days after it had happened. “I was horrified. Horrified that she’d had to go through that on her own, and horrified her friends and counsellors had felt that she shouldn’t talk to us,” she said.

If my mum was the type of nutter who went to the newspapers with our personal problems, even with a fake name, I’d be damned if I was going to tell her about an abortion!

The worse thing is people who try to convince these girls to keep the pregnancy. It sounds as if “Helen’s” daughter made the right decision which would only have been interfered with by her hysterical mother!

Maori culture does not discourage teenage parents, (see 14-year-old Rayelene Mou). Think how all these children of teen parents (particularly when a step-dad comes on the scene) turn out
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May 15, 2011 9:01am
Komata

I understand that the rules on ‘achool-girl abortion’ which excluded Parents’ from involvement in the matter and gave School Counsellors greater importance than parents , and over-riding their authority, were introduced under the administration of a certain Clark, H – a person who was never a parent (and with absol;utely no intention of gaining that status), and who as a radical freminist/communist / socialist was / is ideologically dedicated to the wholesale destruction of the New Zealand family.

A minor point perhaps, but an importsnt one. . .
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May 15, 2011 9:01am
big bruv

19!

Suck that up Liverpool fans. 🙂
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May 15, 2011 9:04am
Komata

tristanb

Re: ‘people who try to convince these girls to keep the pregnancy’

I gather then, that you don’t place any value whatsoever on Human life?

BTW – are you a parent?
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May 15, 2011 9:05am
iMP

NameJack. Abortion: I agree. But maybe a kid getting pregnant at 14-16 IS the opportunity for walls to come down and dislocated kids and parents to connect in a meaningful way. They would if being expelled, when parents are consulted. After the hidden abortion, what kinda relationship they gonna have now with their parents? (how will the Olds feel when they find out 20 years later, that they were never told?). Lose lose all round. Al;l for the sake of avoiding embarrassment, judgement or a negative reaction from parents.
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May 15, 2011 9:06am
Nookin

MNIJ is quite right when he says that everyone is involved, including you and me, when it comes to the delivery of justice. It is also quite right to say that the defence are pulling all strings to take every point. Where the public is let down is the fact that muppets like McCarten, Siemer et al can publish reports demonising the prosection without any acknowledgement of the facts and the public interest in making sure that those facts become known.

The basis for the prosecutions is not hidden because the crown is hiding anything. Facts are supressed to avoid prejudice to the defence whose mates are not slow to take advantage of such one-sided access to public sympathies/prejudices.

The delay is disgraceful and we might need to consider a specialised appellate division for criminal cases
The solicitor-general has taken proceedings against third parties who prejudice a trial by disclosing information prejudicial to the defence. Why should the likes of McCarten be exempt? The Bain case is just one case where the defence was aided by a huge publicity machine. I, for one, am fed up with the lack of balance.
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May 15, 2011 9:12am
reid

A minor point perhaps, but an important one. . .

Yeah that doesn’t matter at all Komata. The whole thing was just a mere coincidence.
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May 15, 2011 9:12am
MyNameIsJack

reid (7,192) Says:

May 15th, 2011 at 8:55 am
Could it be, that like me,and no doubt you, Matt hasn’t seen the “evidence against them” and is waiting for it to be shown and tested in court?

Yes Jack, I was thinking about those transcripts that were released last month.

Oh, that’s OK then, a trial is not needed,just take them out the back and BANG! Guess that’d it sate your bloodlust and disdain for a fair legal system.

Maybe we should have just sent them to a detention camp in Samoa where they can rot and be forgotten about, where the Crown need never produce its evidence.

What scares the Crown somuch about trial by jury that they have to go for a judge alone? Easier to buy off one than 12, I imagine.
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May 15, 2011 9:29am
Inventory2

@ Nookin; just how much credibility do the Urewera 17 have? Well; Penny Bright is going into bat for them, so I guess that means somewhere between not much and SFA 😉
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May 15, 2011 9:46am
reid

Oh, that’s OK then, a trial is not needed,just take them out the back and BANG! Guess that’d it sate your bloodlust and disdain for a fair legal system.

Who is saying that Jack? You’re the only one who’s heard anything about that. Really, you must have a pretty weak case if you make stuff up like that.

What scares the Crown somuch about trial by jury that they have to go for a judge alone? Easier to buy off one than 12, I imagine.

I don’t know anything about the legal aspects of the case Jack perhaps you could fill us in on those, but apart from those, one aspect one assumes is in play is because of the security aspects of this case.

Anyway, what’s wrong with a Judge? Don’t you trust them? Of course you don’t. So what you’re left with Jack, is your own lefty paranoia that the Crown will appoint a Judge sympathetic to their case, aren’t you. And you really think this don’t you despite knowing that the first thing you lefties will do upon hearing of the appointment will be to carefully and minutely scrutinse his/her background for the minutest trace of anything less than total dedication to the leftist cause. And if you find anything at all, such as s/he wasn’t a raving lefty at uni, you ring up your press buddies and start spreading the word, won’t you. That’s exactly what you’ll do, isn’t it Jack.

Now don’t you think the Crown in the form of Elias CJ who will I presume make the appointment, might also know this Jack, and accordingly act with due attention?

I’m afraid Jack that if lefty paranoia is all you have, which indeed seems the case, then you’d have to be a really silly mental to think that therefore, the security of the country doesn’t matter. You lefties seem to make a habit of grabbing the wrong end of some sticks and this is another one of those times. Personally I have a feeling this will end in a judicial farce. That doesn’t mean the charges weren’t justified and that the authorities should have left them alone.
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May 15, 2011 10:14am
publicwatchdog

# Rodders (874) Says:
May 14th, 2011 at 8:25 pm

Evening Penny.

On your 20 questions, NZ scored 1/20. In comparison, how do Australia and The UK score?
(I understand that the UK is a ‘YES’ on #19 – refer to Phil Woolas)”

______________________________________________________________________________________________________

Hi Rodders

I haven’t had the time to study and complete the UK or Australia ‘Corruption Reality Checklist’.

re: Australia it would be interesting to do a State by State comparison, as well as a Federal Govt comparison.

eg: New South Wales, Queensland and Western Australia all have independent anti-corruption bodies tasked with educating the public and preventing corruption – the other States do not.

At the 14th Transparency International Anti-Corruption Conference that I attended in Bangkok last November, I suggest at the closing plenary session that Transparency International move away from a corruption assessment based upon ‘perception’ to one based on ‘reality’.

In my considered opinion, this ‘NZ Corruption Reality Checklist’ which I drew up could be used a a draft basis for such an assessment.

THE NZ ‘CORRUPTION REALITY CHECKLIST’!

If New Zealand is supposed to be the ‘least corrupt country in the world’ (along with Singapore and Denmark, according to the 2010 Transparency International ‘Corruption Perception Index’ – then arguably we should be the most ‘transparent’?

http://www.transparency.org/policy_research/surveys_indices/cpi/2010/results

Here are some quite specific points which clearly identify where NZ lacks genuine transparency.

If these were turned into ‘demands’ and achieved – in my view – there would be quite a transformation which is long-overdue.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________

CORRUPTION REALITY CHECKLIST – NEW ZEALAND

1. Has NZ ratified the UN Convention Against Corruption? ……… NO

2. Does NZ have an independent anti-corruption body tasked with educating the public and PREVENTING corruption? ……. NO

3. Do NZ’s laws ensure transparency in the funding of candidates for elected public office and political parties at central government level? …………………. NO

4. Do NZ Members of Parliament have a ‘Code of Conduct’? NO

5. Do NZ Local Govt elected reps have a ‘Code of Conduct’? ……. YES

6. Is it an offence for NZ Local Govt elected reps to breach the ‘Code of Conduct’? ..NO
7. Is there a lawful requirement for a publicly-available ‘Register of Interests’ for NZ Local Govt elected reps? …………………NO
8. Is there a lawful requirement for a publicly-available ‘Register of Interests’ for NZ Central Govt staff responsible for procurement? ……………… NO

9. Is there a lawful requirement for a publicly-available ‘Register of Interests’ for NZ Local Govt staff responsible for procurement? ………. NO

10. Is there a lawful requirement for details of ‘contracts issued’ – including the name of the contractor; scope, term and value of the contract to be published in NZ Central Govt Public Sector, and Local Govt (Council) Annual Reports so that they are available for public scrutiny?……. NO

11. Is it a lawful requirement that a ‘cost-benefit analysis’ of NZ Central Govt public finances be undertaken to substantiate that private procurement of public services previously provided ‘in-house’ is cost-effective for the public majority? ………NO

12. Is it a lawful requirement that a ‘cost-benefit analysis’ of NZ Local Govt public finances be undertaken to substantiate that private procurement of public services previously provided ‘in-house’ is cost-effective for the public majority? ………NO
13. Does NZ have a legally-enforcable ‘Code of Conduct’ for members of the NZ Judiciary? ……NO
14. Are all NZ Court proceedings recorded, and audio records made available to parties who request them?……………NO
15. Is there a lawful requirement for a publicly-available NZ Judicial ‘Register of Interests’? …. NO

16. Is there a lawful requirement for a publicly-available NZ ‘Register of Lobbyists’ at Central Govt Ministerial level? ………… NO
17. Is there a legal requirement at NZ Central and Local Govt level for a ‘post-separation employment quarantine ‘ period’ from the time officials leave the public service to take up a similar role in the private sector?………………NO
18. Is it a lawful requirement that it is only a binding vote of the public majority that can determine whether public assets held at NZ Central Govt or Local Govt level are sold; or long-term leased via Public-Private –Partnerships? …………………. NO

19. Is it unlawful in NZ for politicians to knowingly misrepresent their policies prior to election at central or local government level? …………………………. NO

20. Do NZ laws promote and protect individuals, NGOs and community-based organisations who are ‘whistleblowing’ against ‘conflicts of interest’ and corrupt practices at central and local govt level and within the judiciary? ……………………………. NO

Prepared by Penny Bright – for Transparency International 14th Conference 7/11/2010
IACC ID D – 1198 http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
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May 15, 2011 10:14am
Adolf Fiinkensein

Lest We Forget

Never forget the prime reason this Urewera farce continues is the Clark regime’s failure to draft robust ‘terror’ legislation. She and Cullen were too busy with more important things – working out how to steal a few million dollars for the Labour Party.
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May 15, 2011 10:16am
Nick K

just how much credibility do the Urewera 17 have? Well; Penny Bright is going into bat for them, so I guess that means somewhere between not much and SFA

And Phil U is next batter up!
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May 15, 2011 10:19am
Manolo

Latest Horizon poll:

The Act Party now has 5.3% voter support.

A new HorizonPoll conducted between Thursday and Friday shows Act is up from 3.7% in April after making Don Brash its leader. The first result for the new Mana Party shows it has 2.3% party vote support nationwide, ahead of the Maori Party on 2.1%. Mana is drawing 30.5% of its support from those who voted for the Maori Party in the 2008 election.

Covering 1,744 respondents, the poll also shows the country goes into Budget week with the country evenly split over which potential coalitions might govern after the November 26 general election.

Weighted and with a margin of error of +/- 2.3%, the Horizon Research survey finds the current National-Act-Maori Party-United Future coalition has 44.9% support, while a Labour-Green-New Zealand First coalition would have 43.5%.

http://www.horizonpoll.co.nz/page/122/act-breaks-t
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May 15, 2011 10:36am
reid

From Manolo’s link.

The Act Party leadership change from Rodney Hide to Don Brash has attracted back its 2008 voters.

Which is exactly what it was designed to do. Excellent.
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May 15, 2011 10:44am
Manolo

She and Cullen were too busy with more important things – working out how to steal a few million dollars for the Labour Party.

They stole and ruined the country, indeed. That’s why Key’s Labour-lite supported Clark during her U.N. campaign, and elevated Cullen to the board of NZ Post and Kiwi Rail.

The deadly pair were handsomely rewarded by their successors.
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May 15, 2011 10:50am
reid

I’ve never thought Cullen was evil. He was supercilious and arrogant but he’s not evil. Hulun on the other hand, is. IMO she is the most malevolent influence we have ever had in politics. Why on this thread today we discussed above yet another aspect of her evil tentacles, in terms of bypassing the parents of teen pregnancies.

When I say she is evil, I’m not overstating and I’m not joking.
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May 15, 2011 10:55am
publicwatchdog

# Inventory2 (6,256) Says:
May 15th, 2011 at 9:46 am

@ Nookin; just how much credibility do the Urewera 17 have? Well; Penny Bright is going into bat for them, so I guess that means somewhere between not much and SFA 😉
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________

‘Inventory2’? perhaps you might care to have a read of the views of an acknowledged expert in this field – Paul Buchanan?

Or given that his views don’t match your own – maybe not? 🙂

What sort of ‘democracy’ criminalises ‘dissent’?

The sort of ‘democracy’ commemorated on ANZAC Day?

Who is next………………….?

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0711/S00312.htm

Postscript on Operation 8

Paul G. Buchanan
11-19-07

“Surveillance was conducted by means of a hub and spoke network analysis in order to establish a terrorist conspiracy wheel. The police bugged the communications of one mentally unhinged individual with anti-social tendencies and a compulsion to boast. They then ran through the list of people he communicated with, tapped into their phones and computers, zeroed in on political activists, ran cross-searches on their contacts, and used human and technical intelligence collection to confirm their collective presence in the Ureweras at various points in time over the last twelve months.”

“For the Solicitor-General, the evidence wheel was too rickety to sustain charges of a terrorist conspiracy. There was no legal traction, to say nothing of political mileage to be gained from prosecution on terrorism charges against this particular group of people. It would be hard to find a jury that would convict them of terrorism-related offenses, and that would have negative political consequences for the government. Evidence collected under warrants issued under provisions of the TSA will be largely inadmissible in court when the accused face charges under the Firearms Act. Perhaps that is why snippets of the communications intercepts were leaked to the media “in the public interest,” although the real motives (and sources) for the leaks are probably a bit more varied.”

“The charges under the Firearms Act are also of interest. One individual was charged with being in possession of two .22 caliber cartridges. Reports have it that a handful of firearms were seized in the raid, of which only one had potentially military-type configuration. A couple hundred rounds of ammunition, mostly .22 caliber, were also seized. So far, no AK-47 or modified automatic weapons have been produced by way of evidence against the accused. Nor have the purported “grenade launchers” ostensibly used at the training camps. If that is the level of proof that the police have with regards to Firearms Act violations, their case is on thin ice.”

______________________________________________________________________________________________________

Penny Bright
http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
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May 15, 2011 11:03am
Elaycee

The MSM this morning reports that placard waving dissident John Minto would be “delighted” to accept a senior role in the racist MoFo Party – including the opportunity to stand in the General Election.

Birds of a feather…..
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May 15, 2011 11:13am
Peter

TLDR

Unless you’re really, really interesting (you’re not), then long posts are just scroll-wheel material. You might be more effective if you thought more and cut n pasted less.
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May 15, 2011 11:15am
Inventory2

@ Penny Bright – so Paul Buchanan is a neutral observer, right?
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May 15, 2011 11:27am
Adolf Fiinkensein

Good God!

Try and imagine that cadaverous white motherfucker Minto and his new found dumb bastard friend Hone Harawira conducting a parliamentary caucus meeting.

Hell, they’d fund their election campaign by selling the tapes.
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May 15, 2011 11:28am
publicwatchdog

# reid (7,195) Says:
May 15th, 2011 at 10:44 am

From Manolo’s link.

The Act Party leadership change from Rodney Hide to Don Brash has attracted back its 2008 voters.

Which is exactly what it was designed to do. Excellent.”
______________________________________________________________________________________________________

errr…. but what is going to happen to the majority National ‘centre-right’ voters – when they realise that a vote for John is a vote for Don (and vice versa?)

Remember the Botany by-election results?

ACT got less than 700 votes and over 9000 (former?) National Party voters didn’t bother – even after being BEGGED to get out and vote by ‘Mr Popular’ (shonky) John Key, and National candidate Jami-Lee Ross (who supported a 3.9% Auckland Council proposed rate increase on 13 December 2010).

Asset sales (particularly of electricity assets) are NOT popular with the voting public – including ‘centre-right’ (former?) National Party voters who get a power bill every month, and have seen nothing but price rises for electricity services since the ‘reforms’ which brought about these much needed ‘efficiencies’?

ie: ‘Efficiencies’ which mean so many people can’t now afford to have their heaters on in winter, or have a lovely soak on a hot bath?

errr…. according to this Horizon poll – the ‘new Mana Party shows it has 2.3% party vote support nationwide’ – which – if added to the ‘Labour-Green-New Zealand First coalition’ of 43.5% – would make 45.8% – more than ‘the current National-Act-Maori Party-United Future coalition’ 44.9% support’?

‘Excellent ……..’ Reid?

Looks like this Bra$h ACT by big busine$$ might be backfiring?

🙂

Penny Bright
http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
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May 15, 2011 11:29am
Inventory2

@ Elaycee – just blogged about this; according to Hone, John Minto is a “hero” and “a great New Zealander”. There will be many who will beg to differ.

http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2011/05/hones-heroes.html
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May 15, 2011 11:32am
publicwatchdog

# Peter (435) Says:
May 15th, 2011 at 11:15 am

TLDR

Unless you’re really, really interesting (you’re not), then long posts are just scroll-wheel material. You might be more effective if you thought more and cut n pasted less.”
____________________________________________________________________________________________________

So ‘Peter’ – if you are just scrolling past – why bother even commenting on so doing?
How ‘interesting’ is THAT?

(I thought selected quotes from an acknowledged expert in this field would possibly help informed debate and discussion on Kiwiblog – but given the intellectual callibre of some of the regular ‘posters’ – I do recognise that this may be a bit of a BIG ask.

Penny Bright
http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
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May 15, 2011 11:35am
Nookin

Paul Buchanan is an acknowledgement expert in criminal law? I must confess that that slipped past me in the night. Paul is at least a seemingly objective observer but nothing he has said so far persuades me that he is in a better position to assess the charges, the evidence and the prospects of success than the crown law office.

I have deliberately refrained from making any comment on the merits of the case because unlike CLO I do not have all the facts and am not aware of the extent of the disputed issues.

Even the evidence supporting trial by judge alone is supressed and so it is impossible to assess the merits of that decision.

It never ceases to amaze me that some people think that they know better than everyone else, including those intimately involved in the cases, and can demolish the crown case with the sweep of a pen.

And for those who immediately read some sinister motive into the supression orders concerning a judge alone trial, you might like to consider that some defendants are going to have jury trials and there is a possibility that the Supreme Court might allow the appeal in which case all the others will as well. Given that possibility, the supression of disputed and potentially inadmissible evidence is entirely appropriate ( unless of course you are of a mind that the absence of known fact is proof positive of a conspiracy involving the crown, police and judiciary to imprison the guardians of the territory so that the crown can flog of the mining rights to international banking cartels [oops, sorry Mr Brownlie — that just slipped out]).

And doesn’t there seem to be some hypocrisy, bordering on out and out dishonesty, about the protectors of civil liberterians who slavishly protect the rights of indiduals but set out to make prejudicial comments for the sole pupose of influencing the outcome of the case?
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May 15, 2011 11:48am
James Stephenson

There’s a UN convention against corruption? I think I’m going to die of an irony overdose…

At least none of our former leaders could be accused of purchasing a job there with our tax dollars…oh, wait.
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May 15, 2011 12:19pm
Elaycee

PB 11.29am says “Remember the Botany By-Election Results?” Yup – as a matter of fact I do as I live in the electorate – and here are some numbers from the official results:

Jamie-Lee Ross received 8,352 votes – this equates to 54.16% of the vote. By comparison, Penny Bright received 128 votes from the entire Botany voter base – this equates to 0.83% of the vote. (No, I have not moved the decimal point – she really won less than 1% of the vote). Penny’s results stand alongside such other political heavyweights as the Pirate Party of NZ (32 votes). Aotearoa Legalise Cannabis Party (61 votes), Join Australia Movement Party (45 votes) and even the informals (25 votes).

By maintaining the theme that this result somehow represents a groundswell of support for PB’s own political views or even the bigger whopper that this result represents a lurch to the left, she continues with the instructions found in Chapter 1 of The Left’s book ‘The Control Of Propaganda’ – if you repeat the same bullshit over and over, then perhaps the lie will gather traction.

PB’s use regurgitated bullshit is tiresome. But in the time leading up to the next pounding that PB will receive at the hands of the voters (27th May, Howick Ward By-Election) I have the feeling that the bullshit factor isn’t going to decrease either….
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May 15, 2011 12:25pm
publicwatchdog

Nookin (824) Says:
May 15th, 2011 at 11:48 am

Paul Buchanan is an acknowledgement expert in criminal law? I must confess that that slipped past me in the night. Paul is at least a seemingly objective observer but nothing he has said so far persuades me that he is in a better position to assess the charges, the evidence and the prospects of success than the crown law office.”
___________________________________________________________________________________________________

errr…. suggest you pay a bit more attention ‘Nookin’?

Neither I nor Paul Buchanan have suggested that ‘Paul Buchanan is an acknowledgment expert in criminal law’.

You just seem to have ‘made that up’?

Here is information about Paul Buchanan’s EXTENSIVE background of which you are obviously unaware?

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/BU1010/S00574/paul-buchanan-to-set-up-intel-analysis-co-in-nz.htm

Paul Buchanan To Set Up Intel Analysis Co In NZ
Wednesday, 20 October 2010, 8:44 am
Press Release: Buchanan Strategic Advisors

Paul G. Buchanan to return to New Zealand, will set up political risk, market intelligence and strategic analysis consulting firm.

Scoop columnist and widely recognized international security analyst Dr. Paul G. Buchanan will return to New Zealand later this week in order to establish the country’s first dedicated political risk, market intelligence and strategic analysis consulting firm.

The company’s services will ideally suit government and private clients in foreign affairs, international trade and investment, defense, intelligence, policing and private security provision – clients who lack expertise in specific subject areas and/or do not wish to carry the financial costs of employing full-time political risk experts.

Dr. Buchanan is an award-winning University of Chicago Ph.D. who has held high-level appointments in the Pentagon and US State Department as well as serving as a consultant to several US security agencies prior to his arrival in New Zealand in 1997.

During his 25 year academic career he taught and conducted research at the US Naval Postgraduate School, Monterey Institute of International Studies, University of Arizona, New College of Florida, University of Auckland, University of Chile, National University of Singapore, Portuguese Institute of International and Strategic Studies, Center for Iberian and Latin American Studies at the University of California, San Diego, North-South Center of the University of Miami, Foreign Service Institute of the US State Department, the University Research Institute of Rio de Janeiro and Center for Study of State and Society in Buenos Aires.

He has been a Fulbright, Council on Foreign Relations, Heinz, Mellon, Kellogg Institute and Association of Asia-Pacific Rim Universities Fellow and has made dozens of public presentations to scholarly and general audiences in the US, Argentina, Brazil, Uruguay, Chile, Portugal, Australia, New Zealand and Singapore.

He is the author of three books and over 50 scholarly articles, monographs and reviews, more than a hundred editorial and commentary essays in a variety of New Zealand and foreign publications, and has an extensive dossier as a television and radio commentator on comparative, international and security politics.”
____________________________________________________________________________________________________

Penny Bright
http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
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May 15, 2011 12:51pm
Nookin

[Gordon Kaye quote]

Penny. I did not just make that up. I made a comment on the prosecutions in the context of the administration of the criminal law. Please read the thread very carefully. I typed it really slowly for people like you. Inventory 2 [have you apologised to him yet, by the way?] responded still in the same context. It was into that context that you introduced Paul Buchanan whose expertise lies elsewhere. If you cannot understand an exchange keep out of it. But don’t go butting in and changing the direction to suit your own bigotted agenda.

In case you still cannot understand I will repeat myself. I was talking about the criminal trials. I was talking about the administration of justice – concepts of which you demonstrate no understanding.

Your cut and paste about Paul Buchanan proves my point. His expertise is irrelevant to the comment that I made and to which IV2 responded.

Again, you want to make an exchange all about you and your views without any regard as to what other people are talking about. Your ego lies between your brain and the sun. Maybe if you deflated it a little your brain might unfreeze and start to function.
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May 15, 2011 1:19pm
publicwatchdog

Elaycee (99) Says:
May 15th, 2011 at 12:25 pm

PB 11.29am says “Remember the Botany By-Election Results?” Yup – as a matter of fact I do as I live in the electorate – and here are some numbers from the official results:

Jamie-Lee Ross received 8,352 votes – this equates to 54.16% of the vote. By comparison, Penny Bright received 128 votes from the entire Botany voter base – this equates to 0.83% of the vote. (No, I have not moved the decimal point – she really won less than 1% of the vote). Penny’s results stand alongside such other political heavyweights as the Pirate Party of NZ (32 votes). Aotearoa Legalise Cannabis Party (61 votes), Join Australia Movement Party (45 votes) and even the informals (25 votes).
_______________________________________________________________________________________________

Try ‘spinning’ it any way you like ‘Elaycee’ – but FACTS are FACTS.

National’s ‘safe’ majority was SLASHED compared to the 2008 Botany election and the majority of National voters DIDN’T even bother to vote compared to 2008.

2008: BOTANY ELECTION – OVERALL STATS:

Numbers enrolled: Electorate votes cast: % who voted :

43,354 31,305 76.29%.

2011: BOTANY BY-ELECTION – OVERALL STATS:

Numbers enrolled: Electorate votes cast: % who voted :

42,815 14,911 (Est.) 36.51% (Est.)

2008: NATIONAL ELECTORATE VOTE:

Electorate votes cast for National’s Pansy Wong: Majority: %

17,382 10,872 56.22%

2011: NATIONAL ELECTORATE VOTE:

Electorate votes cast for National’s Jami-Lee Ross: Majority: %

8,150 (Est.) 3,996 (Est.) 56%(Est.)

http://www.electionresults.govt.nz/electionresults_2008/electorate-3.html
_____________________________________________________________________________________________

Where were the ‘polls’ that predicted the 36% voter turnout in the Botany by-election?

Where were the ‘polls’ that predicted that over 9000 (former?) National Party voters wouldn’t bother?

Where were the ‘polls’ which predicted that ACT would receive less than 700 votes?

So ‘Elaycee’ – are you, as a voter in the Howick Ward, happy with the proposed Auckland ($upercity) Council proposed 4.9% rate increase, and quite prepared to pay it?

Yes / No?

If ‘no’ – could you tell me which of the current candidates in the Howick Ward by-election is opposed to this proposed 4.9% rate increase and is doing anything to help stop it (apart from myself)?

Kind regards,

Penny Bright
http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
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May 15, 2011 2:02pm
Nookin

4.9%?
Closer to 10% by the time that Lenny screws the ratepayer for the upgrade costs of heritage buidlings. That will keep you occupied, Penny.
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May 15, 2011 2:05pm
cha

The New York post headlines OBLs porn stash. Some company for him.
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May 15, 2011 2:28pm
Inventory2

@ Penny; National voters didn’t need to vote, which is why they stayed away. After all, the Labour candidate needed a map to find out where Botany was, and had already conceded defeat before he even started his campaign. And I doubt that they felt too threatened by your candidacy either…
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May 15, 2011 2:31pm
rosscalverley

It’s a fact that by-elections get less votes than main elections, especially when voters think it is a done deal. Like in Botany. Perhaps you could fight current battles, such as the upcoming Te Tai Tokerau by-election. Honedick Harawanker vs Kelvin Davis vs unknown Maori Party rep. Plus one candidacy the media has missed (Including this blog), Kelvyn Alp of the OURNZ Party. Go to http://www.ournz.net.nz to find out more.
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May 15, 2011 2:35pm
Viking2

Horizon Poll – May 2011.jpg
http://www.nzcpr.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=220&sid=035dae2d81f6d4e2d408d490d0344107&p=35733#p35733
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May 15, 2011 2:37pm
Elaycee

PB is still at the bullshit game. She has more spins and twists than a faded Chubby Checker movie.

Jamie-Lee Ross won the Botany by-election with 54.16% of the vote. By comparison, when Pansy Won won the electorate in 2008, she did so with 55.52% of the vote. Even someone like yourself would realise that JLR’s 54.16% of the vote is an absolute majority. Please get over it – it looks a bit better than your 0.83%…

I’ve already mailed my vote for the Howick Ward By-Election. But I didn’t vote for you PB. I didn’t vote for Clown Brown either, but I accept the democratic system that put him there. If enough Aucklanders want to kick him out next time, that’ll happen too.

You ask if I’m prepared to pay the rates as set by the Auckland Council as required. Actually, yes, I am.

Now stop spinning bullshit.
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May 15, 2011 2:41pm
OECD rank 22 kiwi

As guido Fawkes points out, “French socialist IMF boss Strauss-Kahn pulled off plane, arrested in forced oral sex / sodomy probe.”

Interesting, IMF head detained by New York police
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May 15, 2011 2:49pm
publicwatchdog

# Inventory2 (6,265) Says:
May 15th, 2011 at 2:31 pm

@ Penny; National voters didn’t need to vote, which is why they stayed away. After all, the Labour candidate needed a map to find out where Botany was, and had already conceded defeat before he even started his campaign. And I doubt that they felt too threatened by your candidacy either…”

______________________________________________________________________________________________

You missed the NZ Herald’s ‘Chief Political Reporter’ John Armstrong’s analysis of the Botany by-election ‘Inventory2’?

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10710626

Botany byelection loss holds silver lining for Labour Party
By John Armstrong
5:30 AM Monday Mar 7, 2011

At last, Phil Goff has something to smile about.

Exactly why the Labour leader is smiling might not seem immediately obvious given that National’s Jami-Lee Ross won Saturday’s Botany byelection in a canter, securing almost double the number of votes of his Labour counterpart.

The answer is that everything is relative in politics. Labour did better than it hoped. National did not fare as well as it would have expected.

…………….
Still, the debut of the New Citizen Party and National’s failure to lift its vote would seem to pour cold water on the possibility of National securing a majority alone.

The complicating factor is Saturday’s abysmally low turnout. However, the non-vote would more likely be weighted in Labour’s favour.

The 36.6 per cent turnout – half that of a general election – meant both major parties got fewer votes than at the 2008 election. Labour’s vote proved more robust. National’s vote halved from more than 17,000 to just over 8000. In comparison, Labour’s vote fell, but far less dramatically – from around 6500 to just over 4000.

The net result is: Labour increased its share of the candidate vote in the seat from 21 per cent in 2008 to 28 per cent on Saturday.

Moreover, it did so in the face of a number of handicaps – notably the party’s candidate, Michael Wood, committing one of politics’ great sins early on by saying he would not win the seat. ”

___________________________________________________________________________________________________

Obviously – the BIG question for the 2011 general election is going to be – WHERE are those 9000 (former?) Botany National Party votes going to go?

(And how will this extrapolate out for National over the whole of New Zealand?)

Are those 9000 (former?) Botany National Party voters going to stay home (along with their all-important ‘party’ votes?)

eeeek!

Are they going to vote for Winston Peters and NZ First?

eeeek!

Is Labour going to gain more traction with the campaign against asset sales, and increase their all-important ‘party’ vote in ‘safe’ National seats like Botany?

eeeek!

As more and more centre-right National voters realise that a vote for John is a vote for Don (and vice versa) – will increasing numbers move to NZ First or Labour?

eeeek!

Sorry to ruin your Sunday afternoon with these AWFUL questions – but anyone with just a tiny smattering of ‘political nous 101′ would arguably have to give them some serious consideration?

🙂

Kind regards’

Penny Bright
http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
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May 15, 2011 2:51pm
reid

anyone with just a tiny smattering of ‘political nous 101′ would arguably have to give them some serious consideration?

Why is that Penny? You didn’t explain any reason why anything you suggest would actually happen.

Like many lefties you seem to live in a constructed reality which significantly differs from what some call actual reality.

See, lefties like you say things like: “Is Labour going to gain more traction with the campaign against asset sales” as if its quite obvious that almost everyone on the whole planet disagrees with asset sales and how could anyone not. This appears to be what you actually think. Now it’s true that every single lefty on the whole planet thinks asset sales are a bad thing, but that’s not the whole planet, not by a long long shot. But lefties never make that distinction, they seem to imagine that everyone thinks like them: i.e. they are joe average. This perception leads to things like Liarbore’s failure to this day, to understand why everyone hated them last election. It would be pathetic if it wasn’t so funny but funny it is.

So no worries about “ruining Sunday arvo” Penny, unless and until you say something and then explain exactly why it will come about, in your opinion, none of your “wisdom” on this subject can do anything but merely brighten any reader’s day, on the grounds that yes, there is indeed someone whose much thicker than I out there, and most people like to find that, every now and then.

eeeeeek
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May 15, 2011 3:04pm
reid

Spot the surfer on this giant wave

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1386864/Spot-surfer-Can-intrepid-boarder-amazing-aerial-photograph.html#ixzz1MKWJeJuY
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May 15, 2011 3:09pm
publicwatchdog

# Viking2 (4,038) Says:
May 15th, 2011 at 2:37 pm

Horizon Poll – May 2011.jpg
http://www.nzcpr.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=220&sid=035dae2d81f6d4e2d408d490d0344107&p=35733#p35733
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________

Thanks for that ‘Viking2’.

Oh dear – the National “A” Team currently polling at 36.6%.
ACT/ National “B” Team currently polling at 5.3%

TOTAL: 41.9%

(Hardly the numbers to govern alone adding both of them together! )

EEEEK!

NZ First has been polling at well over 5% since November 2010 ………..

Labour Party are currently less than 10 points behind National “A” Team……

Greens are polling nearly 10%………

EEEEEK!!!

So where is this 15% ACT (National Party “B” Team) support that Don Bra$h ‘I’ve got the (big business) ca$h – it’s my way or the highway’ was going to bring with him?

errrr…. seems that it may be having the opposite effect?

ie: National “B (Bra$h) Team is taking centre /RIGHT votes from National “A” Team – who are also bleeding CENTRE/right votes to NZ First / Labour – because they realise a vote for John is a vote for Don (and vice-versa) ?

Of course – the only election result that really counts is an election result – so don’t be TOO worried.

(Just have another careful look at the Botany by-election results………….. )

😉

Penny Bright
http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
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May 15, 2011 3:17pm
cha

Towing in at Jaws.
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May 15, 2011 3:39pm
Inventory2

@ Penny; you really think that the Greens, the Mana Party AND Winston First are all going to get over 5%? If they do, it can only be at Labour’s expense. The best case scenario of course is that they cannibalise one another to the extent that each gets around 4% and no electorate seats. How would you like MMP then?
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May 15, 2011 3:55pm
Manolo

The Luddites will cross the 5% barrier, but NZF and Mana have no chance of achieving that.
While Hone’s only hope is to win his electorate, the venal Peteres is doomed.
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May 15, 2011 4:01pm
reid

The Head of the IMF has been dragged off a plane at JFK and arrested for sexually assaulting a NY hotel maid.

So this sort of creature heads the IMF. Interesting.
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May 15, 2011 4:03pm
James Stephenson

The complicating factor….blah blah John Hamstrung’s “analysis”….yada yada

Penny, both you and Hamstrung are ignoring the bleedin obvious point that the few thousand people that turn out to vote Labour in an overwhelmingly safe Nat seat at General E time are already going to be at the committed end of the voting scale. Of course a higher percentage of them are still going to vote in an apathy-afflicted earthquake-overshadowed by election.

You don’t need to be anyone’s “Chief political repeater” to work that out.
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May 15, 2011 4:03pm
James Stephenson

F knows what happened with the tags there…can’t edit the buggers either
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May 15, 2011 4:04pm
Courage Wolf

A very disappointing poll result for ACT IMO. There should be an initial surge from the publicity and truth be told it can only go down from here until election day where there will be another slight bump – but at the end of the day it falls far short of the 15% predicted by Brash and 40% (LOL) by Ansell.
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May 15, 2011 4:07pm
DJP6-25

Viking2 2:37. Thanks for that info. It looks as if the changes in ACT have worked.

cheers

David Prosser
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May 15, 2011 4:08pm
John Ansell

Courage Wolf: on what basis do you say it can only go down from here? That self-selecting poll was taken before ACT’s campaign had even begun.

That campaign began this morning with full page ads in the Sunday papers. Do you think seven months of consistent messages like that will have no effect?

On the contrary, it will have a snowballing effect. The first goal was to get ACT out of the Death Zone and get the members back (membership has climbed 15-20% in a fortnight) and Don appears to have done that within a week of taking over.

I was talking to a prominent ACT person yesterday who doubted that we could get out of that zone until well into the campaign.

Now it’s onward and upward. You ain’t seen nothing yet!
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May 15, 2011 4:26pm
grumpyoldhori

John Ansell so should ACT be pure and not go into coalition with a socialistic party ?
Or should they be hypocrites ?
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May 15, 2011 4:37pm
TimG_Oz

I love the logic of lefties … if we fragment, divide and infight more, then we can become a unified force to overthrow the Nats.

🙂
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May 15, 2011 4:48pm
Paul G. Buchanan

IV2: I cannot comment on the specifics of the case since there is a possibility that I may be called as a witness, but I do consider myself a neutral observer. Why do you think not? What I have written is based on the facts as I know them, to include a thorough read of the leaked eavesdropping transcripts and a background that includes practical involvement in counter-insurgency and counter-terrorism operations and policy-making. Based upon this combination of factors I concluded in 2007, in a series of detailed analyses published in Scoop, that there was no threat of terrorism in the actions of the Urewera 18, although some of them would have to answer to firearms charges. This is more or less what has happened. I have also repeatedly said that it is a bad look for peace activists and environmentalists to be playing at commando, and that just because at least one of the individuals in unhinged does not mean that he is not dangerous. So where is my bias evident?

Regardless of your impression of my views, surely you will agree that the delay in bringing the defendants to trial and decision to do so with a judge rather than with a jury is patently unfair. This latest delay is due to the High Court having to address the issue of admissibility of evidence collected under the TSA (which was later dropped by the SG as grounds for prosecution), as well as address the challenge to the judge-only decision. By the time the trial is convened (f ever), it will be well over four years since the October 15 raids. That, quite literally, is a travesty of justice, and parallels the debacle that was the attempted prosecution of Ahmed Zaoui on charges that were found to be manufactured rather than real.
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May 15, 2011 4:51pm
Courage Wolf

John Ansell (733) Says:
May 15th, 2011 at 4:26 pm

Courage Wolf: on what basis do you say it can only go down from here? That self-selecting poll was taken before ACT’s campaign had even begun.

That campaign began this morning with full page ads in the Sunday papers. Do you think seven months of consistent messages like that will have no effect?

On the contrary, it will have a snowballing effect. The first goal was to get ACT out of the Death Zone and get the members back (membership has climbed 15-20% in a fortnight) and Don appears to have done that within a week of taking over.

I was talking to a prominent ACT person yesterday who doubted that we could get out of that zone until well into the campaign.

Now it’s onward and upward. You ain’t seen nothing yet!

On the basis that you’d expect to see a huge leap from National to ACT due to the leadership change – you’d think the voters who would be receptive to Don’s economics would already have switched over – but I would hope that you are right that they’re so stupid that they need seven months of consistent messages to convince them, for the sake of the country.
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May 15, 2011 5:00pm
nasska

On his blog IV2 has republished Paula Bennet’s SST column which essentially asks how much government intervention in family affairs will New Zealanders tolerate in order to save babies from their families.

My initial reaction is to tell the minister to sort it out herself…after all that is what she’s paid to do but I have warmed to her dilemma. We scream about outcomes but are the measures required to alleviate the problem acceptable.

http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2011/05/bennett-help-me-save-our-kids.html#links
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May 15, 2011 5:06pm
publicwatchdog

# Inventory2 (6,267) Says:
May 15th, 2011 at 3:55 pm

@ Penny; you really think that the Greens, the Mana Party AND Winston First are all going to get over 5%? If they do, it can only be at Labour’s expense. The best case scenario of course is that they cannibalise one another to the extent that each gets around 4% and no electorate seats. How would you like MMP then?”
______________________________________________________________________________________________________

According to that latest Horizon poll (and the ones since November 2010) – both NZ First and the Greens have been consistently polling well over 5%.

What you DON’T appear to have taken the slightest notice of ‘Inventory2’ – is the nearly 20% of voters who didn’t bother in 2008?

In my considered opinion, it is very likely that the Mana Party is likely to pick up some of those votes, plus they will continue to cannibalise (former) Maori Party votes.

It is my view that ACT /National “B”(Bra$h) Team will cannibalise National centre/ RIGHT votes, and National “A” Team will bleed votes to NZ First and Labour as they realise a vote for corporate raider (shonky) John Key is a vote for Don Bra$h – ‘. ‘I’ve got the Big Busine$$ ca$h – (and vice versa).

To be blunt – I don’t know how you can realistically expect the public majority to support policies which support big busine$$ – given the voting public’s previous experience with neo-liberal ‘Rogernomic$’ being that what is good for big busine$$ is not usually good for the majority of us?

Check out the FACTS below regarding the % of those who voted and those who didn’t in 2008.

http://www.electionresults.govt.nz/electionresults_2008/e9/html/e9_part9_1.html

Penny Bright
http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
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May 15, 2011 5:14pm
publicwatchdog

# Elaycee (104) Says:
May 15th, 2011 at 2:41 pm
……………………..

You ask if I’m prepared to pay the rates as set by the Auckland Council as required. Actually, yes, I am.

Now stop spinning bullshit.”
_________________________________________________________________________________________________

At least I’m not so gormless as to ACCEPT ‘bullshit’.

(Like a 4.9% proposed Auckland ($upercity) Council rate$ increase – when the ‘books’ are NOT open, and we don’t know exactly where, and how much rates monies are being spent on consultants and private contractors for core council services.)

Unlike you ‘Elaycee’.

You just carry on being a (silly) ca$h cow – ‘all pay – no say’.

How DUMB is THAT?

(Meant of course in a caring way……….. 🙂

Penny Bright
http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
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May 15, 2011 5:25pm
publicwatchdog

# TimG_Oz (534) Says:
May 15th, 2011 at 4:48 pm

I love the logic of lefties … if we fragment, divide and infight more, then we can become a unified force to overthrow the Nats.

🙂
___________________________________________________________________________________________________

errr….. ‘TimG’ – perhaps you just don’t quite understand MMP?

If Hone Harawira wins Te Tail Tokerau (as did Rodney Hide in Epsom) – then depending on the Mana Party % vote – he will bring in other MPs with him.

According to this latest Horizon poll – the Mana Party could end up in the ‘King-maker’ position?

Horizon Poll – May 2011.jpg
http://www.nzcpr.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=220&sid=035dae2d81f6d4e2d408d490d0344107&p=35733#p35733

EEEK!

Potentially QUITE the opposite effect to the ‘fragment, divide and infight’ scenario you are describing?

Penny Bright
http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
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May 15, 2011 5:37pm
Tauhei Notts

This is General Debate, so here goes.
I hope this is not deemed to be thread jacking but is there anybody out there who can tell us the progress with the Darren Hughes case?
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May 15, 2011 5:37pm
nasska

Tauhei Notts 5.37pm

A small correction…what ‘used’ to be General Debate has been taken over by a mad woman from up north somewhere. Regrettably there appears to be little we can do until one of the asylums does a head count & reports an inmate missing.

Like you I have been searching for news of Mr Hughes but he seems to have gone to ground & the police must be conducting a very thorough investigation. Hopefully it will all blow up close to the election…..our friends in Labour could have problems getting traction if their tame media are otherwise engaged on scoops about DNA & swiss balls.
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May 15, 2011 5:52pm
big bruv

Tauhei

While there is a prima facie case for prosecution is has been decided that it is not in the public…………….

Oh hang on, there has been a change in government. 🙂
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May 15, 2011 5:53pm
reid

Relax Tauhei.

Judith’s in charge now. I wonder when she gets the report?

That campaign began this morning with full page ads in the Sunday papers.

Are they online John?
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May 15, 2011 6:37pm
Yvette

According to this latest Horizon poll – the Mana Party could end up in the ‘King-maker’ position?
– Penny Bright

This could be interesting as both National and Labour have said they will not work with Harawira.
But what value can the voter put in such statements? Winston Peters of course swore two elections ago that his party would operate from the cross-benches but the accepted the “baubles of office”.

from the CORRUPTION REALITY CHECKLIST – NEW ZEALAND
19. Is it unlawful in NZ for politicians to knowingly misrepresent their policies prior to election at central or local government level? NO
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May 15, 2011 6:43pm
publicwatchdog

nasska (531) Says:
May 15th, 2011 at 5:52 pm

Tauhei Notts 5.37pm

A small correction…what ‘used’ to be General Debate has been taken over by a mad woman from up north somewhere. Regrettably there appears to be little we can do until one of the asylums does a head count & reports an inmate missing.”
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________

errrr. ‘Nasska’ – you wouldn’t possibly be referring to me, by chance?

Probably – given that most Kiwiblog ‘poster’ boyz and grrls prefer to hide behind GUTLESS/ANONYMOUS nom-de-plumes which tend to obscure their gender?

Arguably including yourself ‘Nasska’?

I guess you must just be ‘scrolling’ past my posts and missing the top bit – where on this ‘GENERAL DEBATE’ thread – I am replying to posts made by others – which I thought was what GENERAL DEBATE was actually about?

If you don’t think that I should have the right to defend myself, and respond to posts, (if I so choose), specifically those directed to me – just say so.

Then perhaps readers can make up their own minds as to which ‘asylum’ is missing an ‘idiot’?

Kind regards,

Penny Bright
http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
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May 15, 2011 7:02pm
Dazzaman

iMP (175) Says:
May 15th, 2011 at 8:38 am
ABORTION, SCHOOLS & PARENTS. This is such a tricky issue (privacy) for 16 year old girls, but it kinda sucks that parents are completely left out of the loop on this. Dalziel (not the poli, the sister) says, “”If that protection [privacy] disappeared, you can pretty well guarantee the young person won’t tell the [school] counsellor a thing – particularly the thing you need them to talk about.”

So a law is in place to ensure school counsellors can be trusted and can get the info. they need. I woulda thought it was the parents who really needed the info., so they could give the kids the help they need. State over family, what a screwed up world. Since when were teachers the best option to assist an under 16 year old thru an abortion, rather than a loving mother, a caring dad?

Well yes iMP. The law is an ass as far as this is concerned. The left have long hijacked “women’s” & “reproductive” health so the idea that parents should be part of any abortion procedure on a child of theirs is blasphemy against the liberal/leftist mantra.

Having had “dealings” with govt counsellor’s, there is a big element of inter-departmental back-scratching & job preservation which occurs….at the cost of commonsense approaches. They’re best kept at arms length.

This approach aims at the lowest common denominator, whether there are slack parents should be neither here nor there. The fact that parents holus-bolus, whose rights & parental obligations are basically bulldozed by the feminazi’s into maintaining THEIR mindless status quo, is the real issue…..but I guess most don’t really give a shit.
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May 15, 2011 7:20pm
Pauleastbay

New South Wales selectors just gifted Queensland another series, excellent
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May 15, 2011 7:41pm
jcuk

Did I hear correctly on TV3 tonight some idiot complaining becuase the government has not provided him, an earthquake victim in Christchuirch, with a heater he can no longer swam around his home in shorts? Really if this is typical of CHCH people then my sympathy for them is ended. Doesn’t he know that winter is when sensible people consider long johns, skivvies under their shirts and gas heaters brought in close to them without bothering what the government is doing. the man is a pathetic idiot in my book. The whole story obviously political stirring by the left inclined media.
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May 15, 2011 7:45pm
TimG_Oz

Hi Penny,

Hope you’re well. I wouldn’t usually respond, but I have some spare time, so I’ll bite this once.

Firstly, I’m an Australian citizen, having long since abandoned New Zealand during the Helen Clark disaster era … one of just the many educated people (according to all the statistics) that can make those intelligent decisions. And enjoying it here very much, thank you. So, I’m a fairly impartial observer, although I do still have a vote

Secondly I do love democracy… especially when it gives the fringes of society, such as yourself, the equal chance of a say. Even if the only avenue is to post incessantly on this blog, because nobody will read you anywhere else. Good luck, and well done for getting our attention.

Thirdly, if you really think that divisive fringe politics will win a share, I disagree – purely based on common sense and history. However, I’d be willing to bet $1000 with you if you really think that the Mana Party will cause a change of government, or even have an influence. Are you willing to take the bet?? I’ll even make in Aussie $ so that it’s worth something. I doubt that you honestly believe it enough yourself to take the bet.

I can’t say that I am scared if it were to happen, as I safely live in Australia now. So no EEEK from me. I just hope they steal enough votes from the Greens to kill them.

Regards,
Tim G (in Oz).
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May 15, 2011 7:52pm
rosscalverley

jcuk, I think you are forgetting that you need those clothes to go outside in Christchurch and you need to have something to put on when you go out.
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May 15, 2011 8:00pm
publicwatchdog

Auckland ‘$upercity’ – ‘democracy for developers / consultants and private contractors’?

More evidence that the Auckland $upercity ‘books’ are NOT open……………..

http://www.theaucklander.co.nz/local/news/super-city-splurge/3951273/
Super-city splurge

Edward Rooney | 12th May 2011
Photo / Nz Herald

As Auckland Council reaches the six-month mark, Edward Rooney investigates the millions of dollars being poured into the private sector to prop up basic council services.

Split Enz sang of spending Six Months in a Leaky Boat. It seems Auckland Council has spent six months leaking money to contracting consultants.

Auckland Council is paying almost $2 million a month to outsource planning work as it struggles to keep pace – even during a slow period of construction.

The Aucklander sought information on the amounts consultants had billed Auckland Council since November 1 last year.

The council is unable to provide detailed information and asked The Aucklander for almost $3000 to pay for a person to spend a week compiling an itemised account of the work it has contracted out.

However, from what we can glean:

Since taking up the new administration, the value of contracts let out until March 31 this year in the planning department comes to $8.75 million. For a five-month period that’s an average of $1.75 million a month.

Other departments also letting out significant contracts are regulatory ($3.02 million) and human resources ($442,000).

…………………….

Deputy mayor Penny Hulse is fuming about the cost of outside consultants.

“Look, it doesn’t surprise me, to be honest,” she says. “I do think we need to hold [Local Government Minister] Rodney Hide and the Auckland Transition Agency to account for the rather large costs we are having to bear. We’re over 100 planners short.”

Previous councils across Auckland had about 10,000 staff which the Auckland Transition Agency attempted to reduce to about 8500 positions. “We are sitting at around 7800-ish so there is still a shortfall of staff,” Ms Hulse says, adding she believes the planning department is where the shortage is being felt the most.

Council chief planning officer Roger Blakeley defends the use of consultants, saying there is a wide range of complex activities requiring specialist skills.

“It makes commercial sense to bring in external expertise when it is required rather than permanently increasing staff numbers,” he says.

“We constantly review the balance of staff and consultants to ensure the mix is right and to ensure that projects and services are delivered efficiently and effectively so that Aucklanders get value for money from their council.”

………………….

Mayor Len Brown told The Aucklander in January it would take another six to 12 months for the full costs of the transition to be known. Ms Hulse now says it may take longer. “Costs are still being absorbed, as you can see by the figures you have obtained.”

She says the council is being criticised for a 4.9 per cent increase in rates while having to grapple with transition costs. “It’s like the movie Men In Black. It’s like people have had a penlight pointed in their eyes and they’ve forgotten that we’ve been saddled with all these costs.

“We’re in here just trying to make this damn thing work.”

…………….

AUT Public Policy Institute’s director David Wilson said the new council was never going to deliver great savings, especially once the loss of expertise and institutional knowledge was factored in. “This is another example really of the kinds of hidden costs that result from a massive restructure,” he says. “Any talk of cost savings prior to the restructure are laid bare by this sort of information.”
_________________________________________________________________________________________________

Some of us have been trying to warn you from DAY ONE that the ‘$upercity’ was never forced upon residents and ratepayers because it was going to serve OUR interests (or – presumably we would have happily voted for it?)

Wonder what loud and proud Auckland ‘$upercity Supporter’ – Mr ‘line-by-line-accounting’ ex-Auckland City Council Mayor John Banks – who hopes to be the National “B” (Bra$h) Team /ACT candidate for Epsom has to spout about this matter?

What empty one-liners will ACTor John Banks and his spin-doctors make up to cover this latest $upercity – SUPER RIP OFF?

Penny Bright
http://waterpressure.wordpress.com

http://www.stopthesupercity.org.nz
http://www.pennybright4mayor.org.nz
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May 15, 2011 8:03pm
jcuk

rosscalverley … you are as big an idiot as the gentleman in question … I live further south than CHCH and provide myself with outer wear for going out of the house … no the guy has an extremely distorted view of what is sensible behaviour.
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May 15, 2011 8:04pm
rosscalverley

You missed my point. Oh gosh, I thought only Dorklanders commented on this blog…
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May 15, 2011 8:11pm
publicwatchdog

TimG_Oz (535) Says:
May 15th, 2011 at 7:52 pm

Hi Tim!

Sorry but I’m not a ‘punter’ (apart from an occasional LOTTO ‘scratchie’), and rather broke – so I’ll pass on your offer.

However – I do believe that the Mana Party will have an influence on this upcoming election – with policies that oppose ‘war on the poor’.

I base this view on my knowledge and experience of the effective organising abilities, and proven track records of a number of those involved in the Mana Party.

Also – my understanding of the widespread opposition to neo-liberal ‘Rogernomic$’ policies which would be continued by corporate raider (shonky) John Key and Don the Dicktator Bra$h ‘I’ve got the ca$h’ through the National “A” Team and National “B” Team /ACT – if they were elected…

Should be a fascinating election!

Cheers!

Penny Bright
http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
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May 15, 2011 8:19pm
expat

Another troughing commie

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10725814

The leader of the International Monetary Fund, a possible candidate for president of France, was pulled from an airplane moments before he was to fly to Paris and is being questioned by police in connection with the sexual assault of a hotel maid.

The 32-year-old woman told authorities that she entered Strauss-Kahn’s room at the Sofitel near Manhattan’s Times Square at about 1pm Eastern (1600 GMT) Saturday and he emerged from the bedroom naked, threw her down and attacked her.

She told authorities that he tried to force her to perform oral sex on him. She somehow broke free and escaped the room and told hotel staff what had happened, authorities said. They called police.

When New York City police detectives arrived moments later, Strauss-Kahn had already left the hotel, leaving behind his cellphone and other personal items, Browne said. “It looked like he got out of there in a hurry,” Browne said.

In October 2008, Strauss-Kahn issued an apology to the IMF staff after accusations that he had a sexual relationship with an IMF subordinate.

A former economics professor, Strauss-Kahn joined the Socialist party in 1976 and was elected to parliament in 1986 from the Val-d’Oise district, north of Paris. He went on to become mayor of Sarcelles, a working-class immigrant suburb of Paris.
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May 15, 2011 8:31pm
side show bob

I see predicted sea level rises so loved by the AGW groupies have failed to swap the world’s coast lines. In fact they are now in panic mode and as the latest readings can account for only a 0.3mm rise. So what do these wankers do now, well this is priceless. It seems the Earth has an expanding waist line so the glacial inflows are just keeping pace. You just can’t win with these fruitcakes. But Shonkey and Idiot boy will tell you their are holding back the tide, as long as you pay their E fucking TS
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May 15, 2011 8:39pm
nasska

Once upon a time in the Kingdom of Heaven, God went missing for six days.
Eventually, Michael the arch angel found him on the seventh day, resting. He inquired of God, “Where have you been?” God sighed a deep sigh of satisfaction and proudly pointed downwards through the clouds “Look Michael, look what I’ve made.” said God. Archangel Michael looked puzzled and said, “What is it?” “it’s a planet,” replied God, “and I’ve put LIFE on it. I’m going to call it Earth and it’s going to be a great place of balance.” “Balance?” inquired Michael, still confused.

God explained, pointing to different parts of Earth, “For example, North America will be a place of great opportunity and wealth while South America is going to be poor; the Middle East over there will be a hot spot and Russia will be a cold spot. Over there I’ve placed a continent of white people and over there is a continent of black people,” God continued, pointing to different countries. “This one will be extremely hot and arid while this one will be very cold and covered in ice.” The Archangel, impressed by God’s work, then pointed to a small land mass and said “What’s that one?” Ah,” said God. “That’s New Zealand, the most glorious place on Earth.

There are beautiful lakes, rivers, streams and hills. The people from New Zealand are going to be modest, intelligent and humorous and they’re going to be found travelling the world. They’ll be extremely sociable,hard-working and high-achieving, and they will be known throughout the world as diplomats and carriers of peace.”

Michael gasped in wonder and admiration but then proclaimed, “What about balance, God? You said there will be BALANCE!” God replied wisely,”Wait until you see the wankers I’m putting next to them.

I call them ‘Australians’
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May 15, 2011 8:45pm
reid

This is very significant. Not for the head of the IMF himself, but for what it signifies about the qualities of the people who occupy these sorts of positions.

It hardly ever appears like this, in the media, this is a very rare event. But he clearly thought the maid was someone she wasn’t. How else does one explain his actions? How else does someone with the intellect of the Head of the IMF completely lose it and rape a real hotel maid?

So the question is, just who did he think she was? A willing hooker? Had he ordered one? If not, who did he think had? etc.
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May 15, 2011 8:45pm
Elaycee

@ Nasska 8.45pm. Ha ha ha….. very good.

If you don’t mind, I’m going to borrow it….
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May 15, 2011 8:53pm
Zapper

General debate…proof that idiots* can have their say. Democracy is great!

* Make that idiot, singular not plural.
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May 15, 2011 9:29pm
TimG_Oz

Thanks Penny,

Understand about not being a punter (I’m also not a gambler)…

OK, so how about this – rather than a monetary bet, someting intangible. If the next government forms in Coalition with the Mana Party, I will post a photo of myself in a Mana T-Shirt. If not, then you post a photo of yourself in a T-Shirt of the party in Government.

The loser must smile, and not defile the T-Shirt in any way. I will pay for the T-Shirt (and postage) regardless of the winner.

How does that sound?

By the way, what do you do for a job?
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May 15, 2011 9:31pm
TimG_Oz

Nasska. Great joke .. I remember posting it in e-mails in 1994. That was before I became an Australian citizen, of course, and back when NZ tax rates were actually lower than Australia.
🙂
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May 15, 2011 9:32pm
Mary Rose

>Paul G. Buchanan (252) Says: I cannot comment on the specifics of the case since there is a possibility that I may be called as a witness

Then – polite advice – you shouldn’t be commenting publicly at all.
Courts take a dim view of public statements that could prejudice a trial.
And you can expect the prosecution to bring up everything you’ve published in advance when he/she cross-examines you. To show to the court you are far from neutral, and have possibly prejudiced proceedings in advance.

>Regardless of your impression of my views, surely you will agree that the delay in bringing the defendants to trial and decision to do so with a judge rather than with a jury is patently unfair…

interesting proof of your “I am a neutral observer” claim.

But hey, with all the experts having their say in advance, for both sides, there’s no need for a trial. It should just be put to a vote on a TV show or something.
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May 15, 2011 9:35pm
reid

It should just be put to a vote on a TV show or something.

Can we have the vote on Fox Mary?

That would be good.

Just so long as it’s not Al Jazeera.
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May 15, 2011 9:42pm
Mary Rose

reid
🙂
Court cases can get really boring. So I was thinking they could liven up with a few song/dance numbers here and there.
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May 15, 2011 9:49pm
expat

Reid, bloody scary isn’t it. Gives you some insight into why H Clark fits in so well at the UN.
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May 15, 2011 10:17pm
reid

I was thinking they could liven up with a few song/dance numbers here and there…

Exactly, that would be fun, the Supreme Court Knees Up I’m thinking could be but one of the many highlights.

Let’s ditch that boring horsehair.

Reid, bloody scary isn’t it.

Yes it is rather, expat.
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May 15, 2011 11:22pm

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