General Debate 11 May 2011

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nasska

Good morning & welcome to Water Woman’s self therapy thread. Grease up your scroll wheel & join us for another day of her egotistical wafflings.
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May 11, 2011 8:02am
ciaron

No thanks.. will be in the cordon all day doing inspections, Just wanted to say g’dday to the boys.
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May 11, 2011 8:08am
Manolo

Some natives getting too sensitive Stone Age traditions:

French ignore Te Papa’s toi moko plea

A French museum ignored Te Papa’s protests by taking and then publishing a photograph of a preserved Maori tattooed head. The action was “inappropriate and culturally offensive”, Karanga Aotearoa Repatriation programme chairman Pou Temara said.

Photographing the dead was frowned on in Maori culture. “With ancestors, it’s doubly inappropriate for photographs to be taken.”
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May 11, 2011 8:08am
hj

“In times to come we shall call down curses on the smug spineless short-sighted imbeciles and their Greek chorus of self-righteous well-off holier-than-thou racial masochists for the blight they brought upon the land. ”
David Round
http://www.nzcpr.com/guest208.htm
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May 11, 2011 8:12am
hj

Kiely Chapman is saying Asians have a foreign culture. It seems that it is Maori (fundamentalists) who have the culture that doesn’t fit.
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May 11, 2011 8:14am
Puzzled in Ekatahuna

Monolo – Some natives getting too sensitive Stone Age traditions:

Some Maori heads, with intricate tattoos, were traditionally kept as trophies from tribal warfare. But once Westerners began offering prized goods in exchange for them, men were in danger of being killed simply for their tattoos, French museum officials have said.

But that is only part of the story. Slaves were deliberately tattooed and beheaded when carved faces became a commodity. I can think of nothing more terrifying and barbaric. Undergoing the extreme pain of having one’s face chiselled for reasons of rank and pride is one thing. Imagine experiencing the same agonising process in the knowledge that it is preceding your death. That is always my first thought when I hear about heads being repatriated. I struggle to understand why anyone wants a reminder of this brutal, exploitive practice.

One of the best things about the Treaty is that it effectively abolished slavery in Maoridom. The history of NZ Maori is a savage one. Peaceful tribes were obliterated or enslaved by stronger, more violent and acquisitive tribes. A recipe for a harsh, short-life society. The spiritualistic ceremonies that accompany the return of the remainders and reminders of such times are misplaced.

Maori, the island nation’s indigenous people, believe their ancestors’ remains should be respected in their home area without being disturbed.
Ironic as they weren’t respected in life. Perhaps there is a healing and closure; an apologistic aspect to the process that evades me.

– Lindsay Mitchell http://lindsaymitchell.blogspot.com/2011/05/returned-heads-reminders-of-brutal-past.html
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May 11, 2011 8:17am
Manolo

Mr Key described the KiwiSaver scheme as “wildly successful at one level” because the 1.67 million who had signed up had far exceeded predictions but “at the end of the day it is not affordable in its current form”.

Asked when it became unaffordable, he said: “Bluntly it has become unaffordable when New Zealand is no longer running the big surpluses that the previous Labour Government thought were there.”

Well said Prime Minister, but you should also state we cannot afford neither free interest-free student loans nor a welfare state that pays unethical people to choose a lifestyle of idleness.

When will National muster the courage to go ahead with a thorough review and reform of the welfare state?
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May 11, 2011 8:18am
TMC

From Armstrong’s column today in the Herald…

“Key makes such parting shots at Labour at the end of almost every answer.

Yesterday’s taunts included advising Labour leader Phil Goff not to let his caucus pack his parachute the next time he jumped out of a plane.

He also noted the resemblance of the Labour caucus to characters in Coronation Street.

Before he could develop the latter theme, Trevor Mallard, Labour’s shadow leader of the House, was on his feet complaining to Speaker Lockwood Smith.”

I’m not sure what’s more funny – more attacks backfiring on Labour with Key dishing it back in epic style or Trevor not being able to take it and throwing his toys out of his cot.
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May 11, 2011 8:21am
Longknives

http://www.stuff.co.nz/manawatu-standard/news/national-news/4981390/Tattooed-Maori-head-returned-by-France

A couple of questions re this matter-

Why did ‘Te Papa’ seem to need at least half a dozen wailing/crying representitives to uplift one little head? Who is paying for all this hoopla? (Apparently there are at least another fifteen or so to be uplifted and one report suggests they have been touristing throughout Europe for some time already).

Does this newfound respect for the dead mean that Te Papa and other Museums around New Zealand are going to return their Egyptian Mummys etc?

The lady interviewed on television said people around the World are ‘finally earning respect’ for Maori remains. Were the remains not sold to the French by Maori themselves?

Where does this leave my Great Uncle who has been lying buried somewhere in France since The Great War? Can I go trouncing through Europe at the taxpayers expence to seek his return??

Any clarification greatly appreciated.
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May 11, 2011 8:23am
Yvette

If 9/11 was a ‘false flag’, an inside USA self-inflicted event, it would require the collusion and absolute silence of hundreds if not thousands of people involved, from suicide pilot families through to those who reputedly would have pre-drilled buildings for loading with explosives – people inside the USA and of course outside, members of Al Qaeda, from those who just had knowledge of bin Laden’s activities at the time, right up to bin Laden himself.
If anyone would break the assumed cover-up, in a fit of anger, grief or injustice, surely it would be this son, Omar bin Laden –

Bin Laden Sons Say U.S. Violated International Law
WASHINGTON — The adult sons of Osama bin Laden have lashed out at President Obama over their father’s death, accusing the United States of violating its basic legal principles by killing an unarmed man, shooting his family members and disposing of his body in the sea.
…
The statement, prepared at the direction of Omar bin Laden, a son who had publicly denounced his father’s terrorism, was provided to The New York Times by Jean Sasson, an American author who helped the younger Bin Laden write a 2009 memoir, “Growing Up bin Laden.” A shorter, slightly different statement was posted on a jihadist Web site Tuesday.
Omar bin Laden, 30, lived with his father in Afghanistan until 1999, when he left with his mother, Najwa bin Laden, who co-wrote the memoir. In the book and other public statements, the younger bin Laden denounced violence of all kinds, a stance he repeated in the sons’ statement to The Times.
– http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/11/world/asia/11binladen.html?partner=rss&emc=rss

No? Oh – he is part of the conspiracy and cover up too. His father has self-sacrificed his religious beliefs, motivations, reputation and life itself to further the purposes of the élite of the USA? And he follows in this father’s footsteps?
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May 11, 2011 8:24am
Manolo

The lady interviewed on television said people around the World are ‘finally earning respect’ for Maori remains. Were the remains not sold to the French by Maori themselves?

Good to see one Maori tradition is being upheld: the tradition of selling something and then claiming it back years later as the original sale was invalid. I haven’t seen Maori returning the money the French paid for the heads.
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May 11, 2011 8:27am
Megatron

“Good morning & welcome to Water Woman’s self therapy thread. Grease up your scroll wheel & join us for another day of her egotistical wafflings”

Couldn’t agree more Nasska.
Her self promoting posts are tiresome. She takes up too much blog space.
40 signatures on a petition is sad and reflective of her popularity or lack thereof.
Foxtrot Oscar Penny.
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May 11, 2011 8:28am
pdm

TMC – Trevor seemed to be in pain every time he stood in the house yesterday. Do you think he has shaggers back?

[DPF: I think he has a nasty broken leg]
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May 11, 2011 8:29am
Inventory2

@ TMC – great stuff from Key. I missed yesterday’s Question Time, so I must check out the videos at http://www.inthehouse.co.nz

And what about Peter Dunne? He’s given Labour, Hone Harawira and Winston Peters huge serves. He’s just gone up in my estimation!

http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2011/05/peter-dunne-speaks-truth.html
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May 11, 2011 8:29am
Inventory2

@ pdm – I would guess that he’s still suffering after breaking a leg in his bike crash a couple of months ago
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May 11, 2011 8:31am
hj

According to Agustus Earle. Maori practiced infanticide. It seems they often lived on the edge.
http://www.enzb.auckland.ac.nz/document.php?action=null&wid=295
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May 11, 2011 8:36am
Murray

Manolo, how the hell can a stone age people have a “tradition” relating to technology that was about 5,000 years ahead of where they were?

So whats the deal, its not ok to be rude about dead people (but your mummy can abuse the shit out of live people)
You’re not allowed to take pictures of dead people.
But it is tradition to rub noses with dead people, cut their freaken heads off and store them about the house and/or eat them.

Just checking here because the bullshit alarm has burned its battery out.
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May 11, 2011 8:49am
david

Something doesn’t gel completely over this “heads” business.

On the one hand we are told that when there was a battle, the vanquished chief would lose his head to the victor and anyone considered inedible was taken as a slave

Slaves were not allowed to breed

It was considered common practice as a revenue generator to tattoo slaves then off their heads for profit.

Now in apparent complete contradiction we are told that the heads are those of revered “ancestors”

If you have no descendants, how can you become an ancestor?

What am I missing?
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May 11, 2011 8:50am
mattyroo

Longknives said:

Any clarification greatly appreciated.

Longknives, before I can clarify this for you, I need you to answer on simple question for me:

Are you white?
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May 11, 2011 8:50am
Murray

At this rate people are going to have to provide DNA tests just to fucking comment.

Mattyroo just entirely as an aside you can’t actually require anyone in this country to answer a question relating to their race. Thats why all the forms ask it but its not marked as required to be answered.
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May 11, 2011 9:00am
Lance

@mattyroo
Are you a racist?
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May 11, 2011 9:06am
pdm

Inv2 – killjoy.

Are you saying that he has just been lying back and thinking of further ways he and his past their use by mates can rort the NZ taxpayer?
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May 11, 2011 9:13am
Bobbie black

Out of the bushes popped a white faced clown, called Phool.

“I have been watching you very closely these days Honer. I noticed that we both have something in common. We both have no power. I am liked, a nice guy, but have no power and you are disliked, a prick and have no power. But in my theory I believe if we joined forces we could get some power.”

“Nah, fuck that white boy. You white MOFOs are the reason for our troubles. In case you didn’t notice I am indigi….indigin….I mean to say tangataw….tangat…oh shit I mean we brownies got here first! Got it!?”

“Oh I know all about that,” replied Phool. “And a certain someone has been spending wayyyy too much money lately. And I want him to pay!”

“BS you white MOFO you don’t even have a Moku!”

“Well, yes I do actually,” whispered Phool. “I just don’t often show it. You see it is in quite a personal space and I wouldn’t want it to cost my job at the next erection. I mean election!”

“Shut up Phool you white MOFO!” replied Honer indignantly.

TO BE CONTINUED…
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May 11, 2011 9:32am
Hagues

IV2 “And what about Peter Dunne? He’s given Labour, Hone Harawira and Winston Peters huge serves. He’s just gone up in my estimation!”

Don’t be fooled, Peter is just a political whore who will say anything if he thinks it will make him sound relevant and pick him up a couple of votes. I guarantee that if Labour, Hone, and Winston held 51% of the seats come Nov he will be sucking up to them big time to keep his ministerial position.
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May 11, 2011 9:46am
BeaB

I don’t much care about the heads. Ancestor worship seems to me to be a bit of a waste of time especially if your other ancestors enjoyed a profitable business by disposing of them.

What I would like to know is the cost to Te Papa (and therefore us) of sending all these people to Europe to collect these grisly bits and pieces.

And isn’t that Hippolite woman swanning round France the same one who banned pregnant women from entering this state institution?

Let Maori preserve their stone age culture. I respect their right to do that. But the rest of us have the right to dismiss most of it as superstitious nonsense.
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May 11, 2011 9:52am
Manolo

And what about Peter Dunne? He’s given Labour, Hone Harawira and Winston Peters huge serves. He’s just gone up in my estimation!

Having watched Dunne for years I wouldn’t believe a single word of what he says. The MP for Ohariu-Belmont is completely devoid of principles, and, when the time comes, will sell his pitiful soul to the highest bidder. He has done it a few times already, with the only objective of keeping his ministerial sinecure.

In a nutshell: Peter Dunne is the ultimate political prostitute. Parliament will be better off without him.
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May 11, 2011 9:53am
stephen

Who brainwashed Kyle Chapman into thinking he’s “right wing”?

<blockquote<He said the leaflets were part of a recruitment campaign and he was not a racist, but a right-wing political activist

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/4987693/Police-probe-anti-Asian-pamphlet-drop
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May 11, 2011 9:56am
stephen

whoops
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May 11, 2011 10:01am
Ender

Kyle Chapman doesn’t know his right hand from his left, let alone his political standing.

If people like him weren’t running these types of groups they might actually gain traction and start having some success in spreading and nurturing the anti-immigration sentiment that already exists in New Zealand.

P.S. Some people closely associated with Kyle and his group(s) opened a Klan chapter in NZ about 3 years ago – this sort of thing is why anyone with a shred of political intelligence is repelled by these people fairly quickly, even if they don’t see themselves represented anywhere else.
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May 11, 2011 10:16am
wreck1080

John Keys overriding election promise on which he should be judged by, was to catch NZ wages up to Australia.

What an abject failure, he is accelerating the gap if anything (albeit not as fast as labour would have).

John Key needs to grow some nads like Helen Clarks.

I’m rapidly tiring of seeing Key smiling himself around the country while he lets our country slips into the economic valley of doom.

The problem in this country there is no viable alternative party (except for Act, but they are a minority).
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May 11, 2011 10:41am
KiwiGreg

http://www.tepapa.govt.nz/AboutUs/Repatriation/Pages/overview.aspx

All you might ever want to know about the repatriation program. I have zero issue with folk wanting bits of their ancestors back (even if I tihnk it’s a bit daft and gruesome). Not quite sure why I have to pay for it though.
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May 11, 2011 10:45am
Oskar

On the death of Osama Bin Laden, Hone spoke about the Maori custom of acknowledging the dead.

Over on Lindsay Mitchell’s blog there is an interesting link to an article on the whole social history and the latter commercialisation of Maori tattooed heads (http://lindsaymitchell.blogspot.com/2011/05/returned-heads-reminders-of-brutal-past.html)

In one para this article states:

“The heads of slain enemy chiefs were also kept and played an important role in the rituals and ceremonies relating to war and peace. They were trophies of war and were displayed on posts to testify of the success of the tribe’s warriors (Robley 1998: 136). These heads of enemy chiefs were treated with great disrespect (Lewis 1982: 93). However, these captured mokomokai were also important in the rituals of peace negotiations. When a side was conquered, it surrendered the heads it had captured and the return of the heads signified that the grievances had been settled”.

It seems to me if President Obama had followed Maori practice he would have stuck Osama Bin Laden’s head on the fence outside the White House until this whole sad business was settled.
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May 11, 2011 10:54am
emmess

Who brainwashed Kyle Chapman into thinking he’s “right wing”?

Kyle Chapman is just a white Hone
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May 11, 2011 10:57am
hj

The thing about Kylie Chapman is that he is targeting people on their race. I believe it is o.k to be against immigration for other reasons eg sheer numbers and it’s effect on our lifestyle. You could make a case against business migration from mainland China given the environment in which they prosper; a home stay from Macau whose parents were doctors said (of another) they “would have made their money because of the corruption”. You have to wonder how the likes of Nai Yin Xue got residency.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/pumpkin-case/news/headlines.cfm?c_id=1501364

In addition there are the economic arguments against large amounts of immigrants which are ignored by governments.
http://www.interest.co.nz/kiwisaver/52140/migration-policy-linked-inflated-housing-prices-government-spending-and-low-savings
http://nbr.infometrics.co.nz/column.php?id=409
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May 11, 2011 11:00am
shady

“hj (1,127) Says:

May 11th, 2011 at 8:36 am
According to Agustus Earle. Maori practiced infanticide. It seems they often lived on the edge.
http://www.enzb.auckland.ac.nz/document.php?action=null&wid=295”

I followed hj’s link to this book – an amazing documentation of early days (written in 1832) in NZ written by an artist. It is written through an artists eyes so is descriptive, and speaks highly of the “savages”. Very readable and shows just how much a liar Hone is as well. Honouring dead enemies!!! Huh!!! They roasted and ate their enemies!

Aside from that – it is really interesting – thanks hj! Haven’t finished it yet – but in this foul weather, can’t think of anything better to do.
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May 11, 2011 11:06am
jonnobanks

They are entitled to their freedom of speech, but really, these guys are so stupid.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-02LXyyysU0Y/TZF4zI3x18I/AAAAAAAAAMc/10pfuBPK4as/s1600/RWR%2BFlyer%2Bpic3.JPG
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May 11, 2011 11:13am
Ender

“emmess (871) Says:

May 11th, 2011 at 10:57 am

Kyle Chapman is just a white Hone”

Except for some reason people actually listen to Hone.
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May 11, 2011 11:20am
MT_Tinman

Ender (5) Says:
May 11th, 2011 at 11:20 am

Except for some reason people actually listen to Hone.

“listen” should read “laugh at”.
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May 11, 2011 11:38am
Mark

national are about to announce sweeping changes to Kiwisaver it would seem. Expected are removal of the annual subsidy and probably the startup contribution which is clearly beyond the means of the current government. I have no issue with that personally however would like the following changes as well.

That Kiwisaver constributions are compulsory up until your account has an amount that will provide an annuity equivalent to the current superannuation payment. This was a policy promoted by ACT some years back. It should be compulsory from the age of 18 with the provision for parents to enrol their children at any age. The age of entitlement for National super should be raised to 70.

university Students should have the ability to borrow from their own Kiwisaver fund to pay university tuition fees rather than borrow from the government.

National surely understand that New Zealanders have an appalling track record on savings. At present there is a significant level of debt repayment going an and admittedly this is a form of saving but not an effective source of investment capital. If we are to close the gap with Australia in any meadingful form superannuation has to be compulsory otherwise we will continually rely on foreign investment capital in this country.

I do fear that this government may take note of Brash’s teams recommendation of raiding the Cullen fund to repay debt. May make some sense at a mathematical level but political suicide I would expect.
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May 11, 2011 11:43am
KevinH

CMS missionary Thomas Kendall wrote of witnessing the triumphant return of Hongi Hika from his devastating raids into Hauraki with horror. Hongi’s wakas were loaded with the smoked heads of his vanquished foes, brought back as war trophies as well as proof of his power.
Kendall however was to later disgrace himself by profiting from the musket trade, buying land at mates rates and also for having an affair with the daughter of a prominent chief.
Kendalls impact on the musket trade that led to the wholesale savagery unleashed by Hika has never really been examined, without his input Hika would not have achieved the results he did.
Many of the toi moko around the world presently originated from Hika’s conquests, and found a ready market in exchange for muskets.
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May 11, 2011 11:43am
Ender

“Speeding will be punished more with demerit points than fines, the Transport Minister Steven Joyce announced today.”

Now we just need to learn a lesson from the aussies and make it double on holidays.
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May 11, 2011 11:59am
Longknives

Mattyroo- Happy to oblige if it helps. I’m not sure what you classify as ‘White’ in this day and age as I haved a mixed ancestral background but I have no Maori blood in me. Therefore despite being born in New Zealand and travelling on a New Zealand Passport only I am what Tariana Turia calls a “Visitor to this Country”.
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May 11, 2011 12:00pm
david

re the following. http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/4988113/Rare-whale-find-worth-400-000#comments.

Can anyone advise the tax status of the $400,000 income from the sale of goods found on the beach?
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May 11, 2011 12:03pm
Caleb

If this growing deficit is due to partly to Christchurch and associated one off costs, then it should be no reason to panic at all.

But it is not and all the changes to student loans, kiwisaver and wff are going to do sweet f-all.
One Billion of savings is less than four weeks borrowing.

The partial sale of SOE’s is the main money spinner, in the hope that when this money is all spent, the economy is growing again.

Ok, lets hope the economy picks up because the debt repayment is going to be harder with less SOE revenue.
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May 11, 2011 12:26pm
Elaycee

@ Mark 11.43am.

Many moons ago, there was a tax free element regarding superannuation – in essence, a person could pay premiums into a recognised scheme to a maximum of (IIRC) $1100 per year and the premiums were not taxed. It was a simple way to create and maintain support for a superannuation scheme and even a teenager such as myself at the time, saw this as a relatively painless savings scheme. Many of my mates also signed up at the time – and insurance agents loved it!

Then this tax exemption status was withdrawn and several pulled out of their schemes. At the time they thought that they would be looked after by a state scheme when they ultimately retired (within the next decade). Clearly that is no longer the case.

For the life of me, I cannot understand why this tax free provision on premiums is not considered again today.

Ideas?
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May 11, 2011 12:32pm
magic bullet

Yvette

“No? Oh – he is part of the conspiracy and cover up too?

To coordinate the attacks, Bin Laden would have had to have been in the US. The NSA, CIA and FBI all had the system “blinking red” (in the words of then CIA Director George Tenet. The idea that Bin Laden could have outsmarted the NSA’s fishing net from outside the US is plain ridiculous. Every satellite call that comes from outside the US is scanned by their acres of incription breaking devices. Anything coming from Pakistan or Afghanistan at this time would have been subject to intense scrutiny, if we’re to believe Tenet’s claim. There is no conceivable reason to not, so Bin Laden is out as the 9/11 mastermind.

No – if you want you mastermind – you need to look at Pakistan Inter-intelligence, a major client-organisation of the CIA
All that is needed to set you down the right path is in this article.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/jul/22/usa.september11

Also read James Bamford’s NSA history “Body of Secrets”. The NSA use it as a textbook during their induction course.
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May 11, 2011 12:41pm
hj

“Kendall however was to later disgrace himself by profiting from the musket trade, buying land at mates rates and also for having an affair with the daughter of a prominent chief.
Kendalls impact on the musket trade that led to the wholesale savagery unleashed by Hika has never really been examined, without his input Hika would not have achieved the results he did.
Many of the toi moko around the world presently originated from Hika’s conquests, and found a ready market in exchange for muskets.”
…
Augustus Earle (1827) discusses that and believed that it was necessary to arm both sides. He gives an example of a war that was stopped when each side realised how well armed the other side was and of an old chief who wanted to forsake muskets so they could fight in the old way.
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May 11, 2011 12:54pm
hj

1832 – Earle, A. A Narrative of a Nine Months’ Residence in New Zealand, in 1827nullNew Zealandnull[Pages 251-284]

“During the time we were lying here, I saw and conversed with several individuals who had attended the “Great Meeting,” and their accounts gave rise to various opinions respecting the policy of supplying the natives with fire-arms. As I had always been an advocate,
for the measure, I was gratified by hearing that it was thought to be in consequence of each party’s being possessed of a nearly equal quantity of muskets, that a general and exterminating war was avoided. Some may suppose that similar tranquillity would have been preserved, had they been equally well supplied with their native weapons of war; but that would not have been the case. When they found that each party could furnish forth the same number of European muskets, they paused, well knowing that it was contrary to the wish of all the white settlers that they should proceed to hostilities. Indeed, Europeans intrepidly mingled amongst them, urging them to a reconciliation; and, threatening, that, if they failed in their endeavours, the supplies of arms and ammunition should be discontinued. This threat had its desired effect on the minds of the natives: no blood was spilt; and each chief returned quietly to his own home.

On the night we heard of the death of George and his wife, “Revenge and war” was the universal cry. His party would not

[Image of page 263]

believe that it could be an accident, nor would they hear of any apology being received. At this time they imagined the tribes of E O Ke Angha were possessed of but very few fire-arms; and, as the skirmish took place in that district, it was determined that an exterminating war should be carried into the heart of it. However, before all the preparations could be made to carry their intentions into effect, they received certain information that the people of E O Ke Angha were even better supplied with muskets than those of the Bay of Islands. This intelligence occasioned an assemblage of the different tribes to be proposed; and when it took place, the friends of George saw their opponents so well prepared for the “tug of war,” that they deemed it judicious to come forward, and to shake hands, and to acknowledge that the death of Shulitea proceeded either from accident or mistake. A curious circumstance took place in the midst of their debate. An old chief, who wished for a fight, and did not approve of the introduction of fire-arms, but was an advocate for the old

method of New Zealand warfare, proposed that each party should send away all their muskets and ammunition, and engage manfully with their own native weapons; and then it could be easily proved which were the “best men:” but this mode of settling the dispute, not being agreeable to the majority, was instantly negatived, and treated with disdain. ”
http://www.enzb.auckland.ac.nz/document?wid=303&page=0&action=null
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May 11, 2011 1:06pm
hj

Augustus Earle saw the missionaries as a big waste of space and believed it was the whaling captains who paved good relations as they needed security and Maori benefited from their trade.
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May 11, 2011 1:14pm
hj

David Round:
“The Treaty is not about partnership. The Treaty never mentions partnership. The arrangement the Treaty describes is the very opposite of partnership. The Treaty says that the Queen has sovereignty, and that Maori are her subjects like everyone else, enjoying the rights of subjects as everyone else is and bound by the law as everyone else is.

“The idea of ‘partnership’ only appeared in 1987, when five judges of the Court of Appeal, called upon to interpret the brand-new concept of ‘Treaty principles’, which Parliament had just inserted in the State-Owned Enterprises Act 1986, spoke in several places of partners and partnership. It is absolutely clear, however, that the judges did not intend the words to have the weight of politically-charged and even seditious meaning which is now loaded onto it. The words were used very loosely and generally ~ ‘partners’ was used interchangeably with ‘parties’ to mean no more than the parties to the Treaty ~ a ‘partnership of races’ was also spoken of, not (as is now alleged) a partnership between Maori and the Crown. A partnership between Maori and the Crown is constitutionally-impossible nonsense. It would have to mean that Maori are not the Queen’s subjects (as the Treaty says they are) but the Queen’s equals, and therefore not subject to her government. In a later case even Sir Robin Cooke, obviously worried by the implications which Maori activists had chosen to read into his foolishly-phrased 1987 judgment, specifically said this ~ that the words partners and partnerships had not, in 1987, been used by the Court in a strict narrow legal sense. Indeed, he pointed out that even in actual legal partnerships there were senior and junior partners. The 1987 case also recognised as another Treaty principle the duty of obedience to the laws and loyalty to the Queen’s government, which is hardly consistent with ‘partnership’.” To read David’s full article, click the sidebar link>>>
http://www.nzcpr.com/guest240.htm
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May 11, 2011 1:32pm
Manolo

The beast knew how to reproduce, didn’t he?

The youngest son of Osama bin Laden may have escaped capture during the US-led raid in which the Al Qaeda leader was shot dead. Three of bin Laden’s widows have told Pakistani interrogators Hamza bin Laden, 20, has not been seen since the raid on the compound in Abbottabad last Sunday and was not among the family members captured. Hamza had been described as the “crown prince of terror” and intelligence agencies fear he was being groomed to be the next Al Qaeda leader.

Bin Laden was married five times and had as many as 24 children.
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May 11, 2011 2:26pm
DJP6-25

Manolo 8:18 am. When the economy finally hits the wall, like Greece, and no soft options are left. Having a strong ACT team around would help.

cheers

David Prosser
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May 11, 2011 2:41pm
DJP6-25

Hagues 9:46 am. You can take that to the bank.

cheers

David Prosser
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May 11, 2011 2:49pm
cha

The beast knew how to reproduce, didn’t he?

They’ve always liked family.
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May 11, 2011 3:10pm
grumpyoldhori

Longknives with the number of pakeha bludging an education then leaving NZ the term visitor does fit well.
Or do you believe those who have paid no tax are owed ?
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May 11, 2011 4:13pm
Pete George

Harawira officially sets in place one of the more interesting byelections for a while.

I hope the best candidate win.
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May 11, 2011 4:22pm
KH

Hawawira is not actually interesting. And certainly not productive politically.
The media promote it because we the public like to watch wreckage. It’s our fault.
It’s like when after hours and hours of a motor race all we get on the six o’clock news is the ten seconds of the crash.
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May 11, 2011 6:25pm
Komata

According to the 6pm news Harawira H has resigned from Parliament, setting the stage for the By-Election.

To give him his due, he has gone through with the action, and for that must be accorded a certain degree of admiration, for having the courage of his convictions and acting on them.

With that done let’s all sit back for a ring-side seat (bought to you by your nearest hotly-salivating MSM outlet) as to how modern Maori wage political war. I suspect it is going to be very, very nasty, and that Titiwhai is going to be extremely evident (she can’t help herself can she?).

Popcorn anyone?
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May 11, 2011 6:55pm
nasska

Komata @ 6.55pm

If this doesn’t turn politics into a blood sport nothing will. I’ll be surprised if Titiwhai’s big mouth boy will be able to get through to election day without assaulting someone.
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May 11, 2011 7:10pm
Komata

nasska

Ahh, but he will very easily; it won’t be him who assaults anyone; it will be the Bro’s, his Sista, those absolutely delightful Cuzzies, and, (leading the charge), Mama. Hone won’t lift a finger – it will all be ‘taken care of’ in the ‘traditonal’ NgaPuhi way. As they are all subscribers to the old adage that ‘the family that fights together stays together’ this is not to be unexpected. Luverly aren’t they?

BTW, any bets that when the assaults DO begin (‘when’ not ‘if)’, the Mr De Brees will bleat yet say nothing, the MSM will be strangely silent, and that that the tribal elders will be conspicuous by their absence?

Now if it was a European . . . .
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May 11, 2011 7:25pm
joana

Emmess
Kyle Chapman is part Maori.
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May 11, 2011 7:30pm
thedavincimode

goh

Good point.
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May 11, 2011 7:31pm
thedavincimode

“Kyle Chapman is part Maori [and pure loser]
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May 11, 2011 7:33pm
Steve

Is Wednesday usually this quiet?
Where is Mr Hatfield senior and the other side of the clan aka MOFOs? You know John, the PAKEHA that are also part of your bloodline
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May 11, 2011 7:35pm
niggly

Spot on re: Hone!

Not only that I see Hone simply denies any knowledge of (trouble at events, like the kerfuffle with his mum distrupting the MP meeting or reported threats by supporters on other locals etc).

Some MSM lightweight reporters should simply call his bluff, that’s the modus operandi he operates in and respects.

Hey, those shades he always wears suits his shady personality! 🙂
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May 11, 2011 7:35pm
shady

Hey – nothing wrong with my personality! 🙂
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May 11, 2011 7:39pm
nasska

Komata

He’ll have his goon squad handy no doubt but I still reckon he’s odds on to give someone the bash himself. He’s no less a hothead than the rest of his wretched hapu.

No bet…no way! DeBrees will do a 180 with his own neck before he sees the noble savages held to the standards he imposes on the rest of the populace, ditto with the MSM & the tribal elders will be threatened with violence until they act as if blind.

A parody of democracy awaits us.
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May 11, 2011 7:43pm
niggly

shady, no probs – you (fortunately) don’t compare to Hone’s personality, which is ‘pretty out there’ (even for this PC day and age … he must have the PC & race relations brigade under his warped control too, must p___ them off considerably that they must kowtow to him & tolerate his rantings etc) 🙂
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May 11, 2011 7:46pm
Viking2

Treacherous Nat.s Slobbering over Maori with Legislation to Entrench their Entitlements

ACT accuses Govt of breaking no surprises agreement

Wednesday, 11, May, 2011 7:00PM

ACT has accused the Government of breaking their no surprises agreement by not telling them about a Treaty of Waitangi clause being inserted in legislation.

The final reading of the Environmental Protection Agency bill will happen in parliament this afternoon.

The Maori Party convinced the government to include a Treaty provision in it, allowing Maori representation on the new agency board as well as a Maori statutory board.

Deputy ACT leader John Boscawen is furious.

“We weren’t consulted on that, we certainly weren’t given the 48 hours notice required under the confidence and supply agreement for major amendments of this nature, and this afternoon our party will be voting against that legislation,” he told Parliament.
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May 11, 2011 7:59pm
Rodders

Re Kyle Chapman – before tonight’s interview I had believed that The Piltdown Man was a myth.
Now I am not so sure.
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May 11, 2011 8:05pm
nasska

What Makes 100%?
What does it mean to give MORE than 100%?
Ever wonder about those people who say they are giving more than 100%? We have all been to those meetings where someone wants you to give over 100%.
How about achieving 103%?
What makes up 100% in life?
Here’s a little mathematical formula that might help you answer these questions:
If:
A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z
is represented as:
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26.
Then:
H-A-R-D-W-O-R-K
8+1+18+4+23+15+18+11 = 98%
and
K-N-O-W-L-E-D-G-E
11+14+15+23+12+5+4+7+5 = 96%
But ,
A-T-T-I-T-U-D-E
1+20+20+9+20+21+4+5 = 100%
And,
B-U-L-L-S-H-I-T
2+21+12+12+19+8+9+20 = 103%
AND, look how far arse kissing will take you.
A-R-S-E-K-I-S-S-I-N-G
1+18+19+5+11+9+19+19+9+14+7 = 122%
So, one can conclude with mathematical certainty, that while Hard work and Knowledge will get you close, and Attitude will get you there, its the Bullshit and Arse Kissing that will put you over the top.
Now you know why some people are where they are!
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May 11, 2011 8:18pm
Elaycee

@ Nasska 8.18pm.

Very good. But where does that put the wannabe politico, blog blight?

16 + 5 + 14 + 14 + 25 plus 2 + 18 + 9 + 7 + 8 + 20 = 138%
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May 11, 2011 8:28pm
nasska

Elaycee

There’s one thing you can say about Water Women….she even eclipses bullshit & arsekissing.
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May 11, 2011 8:33pm
Elaycee

Nasska.

Ha ha. Very good.
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May 11, 2011 8:53pm
Komata

Nasska

Sssssssh. . . sleeping dogs and all that !!!
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May 11, 2011 8:56pm
Hurf Durf

Kyle Chapman. LOLOLOLOL. What a wasteman. Can only assume his Christchurch operation went south if he thinks it’ll work in Auckland. Or maybe he’s just dumb.

Speaking of obnoxious racists, it’s not often I call for a temporary truce beween Labour, National and the Maori Party but in the case of Te Tai Tokarau I think I’ll have to make an exception. Snuff Hone and his party out in its crib.
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May 11, 2011 8:58pm
Sofia

‘OPEN LETTER’ Dear Emma, Thank you for confirming my 10 minutes ‘speaking rights’ to address the ‘Public Forum’ of the upcoming Auckland Council Property Ltd (ACPL) meeting to be held on: Thursday 12 May 2011 9.30am, Bancorp Offices, Qantas House, Level 11, 191 Queen Street, Auckland City.

When she’s there, she’s not here?
But, shit, we’re all going to get it – later
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May 11, 2011 9:10pm
adze

@nasska

A long time ago I saw a doco on the NZ territorials. There was a bunch of squaddies who were doing some back and forth running task that required a certain number of trips (50 I think) within 10 minutes. Beforehand they were told to give 110%.

Those who didn’t make 50 trips in that time had to explain to the Sgt. why (somewhat rhetorically; basically it was because they were knackered). Many struggled to make the target but one guy made 55 trips. The Sgt. asked him why he made 55 trips and he replied “110 percent”. 🙂 The Sgt. said “good answer”, and then muttered “smart arse”. 🙂
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May 11, 2011 9:16pm
KevinH

Shades of the BNP about Kyle Chapman, but he is probably to dumb to carry a political argument.
Back in the late 70’s there was a bunch of thugs who hung out at the Windsor Castle in Parnell and lived in the Parnell environs. They called themselves the “Boot Boys” due to their regulation Doc Martens, and were usually good for a good punchup at closing time. Also if they didn’t like the music, they would tear the place apart and bash anyone in the way.
However in the end most of them got old or went to London to get into the punk scene.
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May 11, 2011 9:18pm
cha

a temporary truce

To rid ourselves of Chapman and his ilk, fuck yeah HD, I’d share too.
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May 11, 2011 9:43pm
magic bullet

Something to wet the appetite for the budget – when Winston called David Farrar a “rumplestilskinite” in responding to one of Key’s bland budget speeches.. One of the funniest speeches i’ve ever seen in the NZ parliament actually. Enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jr5w88M6zs
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May 11, 2011 9:43pm
Nookin

If TVNZ is going to give a complete waste of space like chapman air time, then it might at least have him faced with an interviewer who is more intelligent and skilled than chapman himself.

The walrus has no idea on how to follow up on answers. He seems to have set questions which he goes thru by rote. If he got to know his subject he could have made chapman to look like the nasty vicious racist scumbag that he really is. Instead he was given a chance to promote himself. His other guest didn’t really get a look-in.
TVNZ should hire specialist interviewers for shitheads who need to be taken down. The walrus isn’t an interviewer. He is scarcely a presenter.

An interview hit squad would make for some good television — and television would be doing a service by showing the public how shallow some people really are.
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May 11, 2011 9:53pm
Nookin

I know it’s hard to get to the facts when learning something thru the media, but it does seem to me that the cop who led the investigation and arrest of the two guys who were wrongly convicted of arson really does need to be brought to account. The senior cop who was interviewed on Sunday made a total hash of it all. He has the OÇonnor “cops never do anything really wrong”mentality. The detective should have been sacked.
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May 11, 2011 10:44pm
Bobbie black

Speaking of stupid extreme racists yes I just watched that interview with Chapman.

I guess the bible bashing stint didn’t give him enough attention…and the fresh start, turning over a new leaf with the new wifie.

Looking at him, I would say he is just a little boy needing more love and attention.

Perhaps a little stint in jail may be what he is looking for.

As David Byrne said, “If you’re looking for trouble, that’s what you will find.”
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May 11, 2011 11:40pm
thedavincimode

Nookin

I don’t think he will be long for those there parts.

I was gobsmacked at the way he handled that interview. In particular, his comment that linking two different incidents four years apart was “drawing a long bow” in the context of being a reflection of that guys suitability for the job was not just glib and absurd, but highly ironic given that “drawing such long bows” is exactly what the cops do to catch crims.

He struck me as being very very much of the old order, arrogant denial, and appeared that he may not actually be that far away from retirement.

BTW, yes the walrus is an idiot but this is not new information.
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May 12, 2011 6:02am
Manolo

The Messiah’s wife keeps dubious company:

The invitation of rapper Common to the White House this week is drawing the ire of the union representing New Jersey state police.

While even casual hip-hop fans wouldn’t characterise him as a controversial rapper, Common found himself under the microscope after First Lady Michelle Obama invited him to the White House for an arts event. In question: the lyrics to “A Song for Assata,” about convicted cop-killer and former Black Panther Assata Shakur.
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May 12, 2011 6:48am
Manolo

Read and laugh at the cheek of this bastard:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1385714/Osama-Bin-Ladens-son-Omar-slams-Al-Qaeda-leaders-death-criminal-sue-US.html
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May 12, 2011 6:50am

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