General Debate 6 April 2011

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Yvette

Reid [in particular] my intended point yesterday was that if 9/11 was a self inflicted event [by American political interests, as I can’t quite see the ‘benefit’ to anyone else] it would require the silence of numbers in the US to an unbelievable extent, but also the compliance of Osama Bin Laden and others actually accused of perpetrating the criminal disasters.

So Bin Laden would know he was or wasn’t accountable, and if not, required to remain silent on that, because it also suited his hatred of the US to accept it as being in his overall interests, when he could engineer it to expose the US as the biggest liars in history with the morals of Goya’s Saturno devorando a un hijo.
However that would also require a large number of compliant people surrounding him and knowing his actions and their being ‘flexible’ in their otherwise apparently uncompromising beliefs, convictions held to the point of insanity, to self-sacrifice if needed.

This just all adds up to incredible numbers of people ‘in the know’, in the US and Middle East, without a single one bending to being pissed and loose-mouthed, proud, or repentant enough, or plotting blackmail, 15 minutes of fame, or any other slip to expose the truth.
It’s a big ask.

And, the current relevance of this is the impending ‘farce of trials’ to be played out in Guantanamo proceedings … still with no one in the know, US or Middle East, spilling their guts?
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April 6, 2011 8:01am
labrator

If you’ve got kids at school or you’re interested in education progression you should check out this TED video about the Khan Academy. It’s the new revolution in teaching as we break free of the industrial revolution’s answer to the question of how to get more workers. Check out the metrics on the learning results, I know the Teachers Union will stop it coming here when it’s that easy to see who the good teachers are!
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April 6, 2011 8:05am
hj

“The green movement has been circulating appalling falsehoods about the dangers of radiation.

By George Monbiot. Published in the Guardian 5th April 2011

Over the past fortnight I’ve made a deeply troubling discovery. The anti-nuclear movement to which I once belonged has misled the world about the impacts of radiation on human health. The claims we have made are ungrounded in science, unsupportable when challenged and wildly wrong. We have done other people, and ourselves, a terrible disservice.

I began to see the extent of the problem after a debate last week with Helen Caldicott(1). Dr Caldicott is the world’s foremost anti-nuclear campaigner. She has received 21 honorary degrees and scores of awards, and was nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize(2). Like other greens, I was in awe of her. In the debate she made some striking statements about the dangers of radiation. So I did what anyone faced with questionable scientific claims should do: I asked for the sources. Caldicott’s response has profoundly shaken me.

First she sent me nine documents: newspaper articles, press releases and an advertisement. None were scientific publications; none contained sources for the claims she had made. But one of the press releases referred to a report by the US National Academy of Sciences, which she urged me to read. I have now done so – all 423 pages(3). It supports none of the statements I questioned: in fact it strongly contradicts her claims about the health effects of radiation. ”
http://www.monbiot.com/2011/04/04/evidence-meltdown/
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April 6, 2011 8:17am
Inventory2

The “green movement” has distorted the truth hj? Sheesh, I didn’t see that coming…
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April 6, 2011 8:23am
mattyroo

Refreshing, although it doesn’t go far enough, but the signs are there:

Within months police can expect an easing of restrictions for using Tasers and greater access, including one in every frontline vehicle, under new Police Commissioner Peter Marshall.

He also supports more access to firearms, tougher penalties for those who assault police, and a jail term for every time a driver flees police.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10717383
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April 6, 2011 8:24am
Longknives

HJ I wouldn’t place too much ‘weight’ on a Nobel Peace Prize nomination. Considering some of the dubious characters who have won in the past. And the 2009 recipient seemed to win it as some kind of ‘spot’ prize! Quote from their website- “The Nobel Peace Prize 2009 was awarded to Barack H. Obama for his extraordinary efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and cooperation between peoples”…Eh??
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April 6, 2011 8:24am
hj

Greens making headway in the Green Party?

1 Turei, Metiria : Decolonisation in a colonised country is also a priority, as is gender equity, et al.

Opponents of the legislation say the battle over the foreshore is not over with a promise from the Greens that it won’t let the foreshore and seabed issue die as it heads into the election campaign.
Ms Turei is furious at the Maori Party.
3 Hague, Kevin
“The phase of the discussion that we now need to move into is one that that focuses on Maori status as the indigenous people of this country and on the actual content of the Treaty: a statement of the terms and conditions for the presence of non-Maori. The Maori right to self-determination pre-dated the Treaty and was not altered by it. What is at issue in understanding the Treaty are the rights of non-Maori. ”
4 Delahunty, Catherine
“I am very excited that we are moving into a more sophisticated era under Te Tiriti o Waitangi, and we are moving beyond the limited concept of conservative Pākehā that one man, one vote is the only manifestation of democracy possible in Aotearoa.’
http://www.greens.org.nz/speeches/more-sophisticated-era-under-te-tiriti-o-waitangi

7 Sage, Eugenie :Forest and bird
Eugenie Sage says

It could be EXCEPT THAT we understand that Ngai Tahu and the Akaroa taiapure management committee are moving quickly to have the taiapure which covers 90% of Akaroa Harbour extended to cover the Dan Rogers area without public consultation.

Legally you cannot have a dual regime over the same area of sea space i.e. a marine reserve and a taiapure because they are established and managed under different legislation. (A taiapure is a fisheries management tool under the Fisheries Act). If Ngai Tahu is successful in extending the taiapure, it would then be impossible to re-apply for a marine reserve. You can write to Fisheries Minister, Phil Heatley asking him to not extend the taiapure.
http://blog.greens.org.nz/2011/04/04/list-ranking-underway/
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April 6, 2011 8:38am
Megatron

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/4852407/Govt-to-fund-2m-giant-plastic-waka
A plastic Waka costing 2 million to promote brand maori for the RWC…WTF!!!!!!!!
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April 6, 2011 8:38am
Yvette

“Obama has now fired more cruise missiles than all other Nobel Peace prize winners combined.”
– http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/304909
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April 6, 2011 8:40am
Nookin

For those interested, last week was not the best of weks for Mr Siemer.

http://www.courtsofnz.govt.nz/from/decisions/judgments
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April 6, 2011 8:41am
alex Masterley

Can’t say that I am surprised about the outcome.
Just looking at the latest decsions I see that Egveny Orlov did not fare too well either.
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April 6, 2011 8:45am
Manolo

Megatron at 8:38 am, yes. That plastic monstrosity, the waka, must be one of the most expensive jokes inflicted on us.

It is an utter disgrace to waste almost two million dollars in such Maori crap.
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April 6, 2011 8:58am
KiwiGreg

@ megatron WTF doesn’t even begin to cover it
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April 6, 2011 8:58am
starboard

Only in Nil Ziland….what a joke

“A man charged with drugging and raping a woman while he was out on bail has been bailed again, and yesterday his conditions of release were relaxed.

Paulus Nieuwenhuiysen appeared yesterday in the High Court at Auckland, where his conditions of bail were changed so he could exercise for an hour each day.

Justice Ailsa Duffy approved an application to vary the conditions so Nieuwenhuiysen could leave his bail address with a minder.”
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April 6, 2011 9:07am
KH

Turei got it wrong.
The Treaty of Waitangi handed full soverignty to the English crown. And all under it’s umbrella have equal rights. There was a deal. It’s done and dusted
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April 6, 2011 9:10am
Nookin

Alex
I am not familiar with Mr Orlov. Presumably he unecessarily prolonged fruitless litigation?
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April 6, 2011 9:26am
andrei

Do you people know the Government is running Scam Awareness Week this week?

The mind boggles
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April 6, 2011 9:37am
Manolo

Thank you, andrei. I made the following comment yesterday:

Deliciously ironic!
Instead, Boscawen should be chase and prosecute the incompetent Nick Smith for inflicting on us the dreadful scam and new tax, the ETS.

http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/govt-launches-scam-awareness-week-nn-89896

Govt launches Scam Awareness Week

People are being urged to be on the lookout for consumer ruses during Scam Awareness Week, which began today.
“According to research commissioned by the Ministry of Consumer Affairs, New Zealanders greatly underestimate the cost of scams,” Consumer Affairs Minister John Boscawen said.

“Of 1000 people surveyed, 90% believed New Zealanders lose under $300 million a year, but the cost is closer to $450 million a year.”

Mr Boscawen said the ministry’s scamwatch website received about 3,500 reports annually, including from people who had lost everything by falling victim to a scam.
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April 6, 2011 9:42am
trout

The Govt. throws the Maori Party another bone; $1.9 million for a whaka; or is this a thinly disguised contribution to the Pita Sharple reelection effort (Shane Jones is likely to run him close).
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April 6, 2011 9:48am
kaya

The cracks in the global financial markets are appearing again. Not that they ever actually went away, they were just papered over with disney dollars.

IMF denies rumours that Greece about to default…..

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/economy/news/article.cfm?c_id=34&objectid=10717304

Portugal….

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/mar/23/portugal-government-collapses-eu-bailout-looms

Spain…..

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703806304576244581513719542.html

Yet many markets are at 3 year highs? Delusional.

So will the Fed bring in QE III when the current round of money printing ends in June? If they do watch commodity prices soar to even greater heights and the Government tell us how wonderful it is for our economy. What they won’t tell you is that the inflation that will accompany it (has already started) will make any apparent gains practically worthless.

Apart from that, many of the benefits are going offshore anyway. Bernard Hickey had a piece in the Herald yesterday.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/bernard-hickey/news/article.cfm?a_id=625&objectid=10717168

Interesting couple of years coming up.
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April 6, 2011 9:50am
BeaB

I’d be prepared to bet the plastic waka won’t have a chance of being completed in time for the RWC. I just hope the payment is on completion only, and by a specified date.
The money is almost worth it to hear the different Maori interests all disagreeing with one another. They’ll never be a political force because they are so divided and have too many strutting male egos.
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April 6, 2011 9:55am
Megatron

Why don’t they make a big plastic bull turd instead of a waka…more representational of the ‘maori brand’.
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April 6, 2011 10:16am
Longknives

Just think of the huge Tourism benefits and financial windfall having a big plastic Canoe will bring to NZ! Once the RWC is over the word will be out about this amazing attraction-I’d say as a drawcard it will be comparible to the giant fruit just outside of Cromwell, and maybe just a bit below the big Trout in Gore.
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April 6, 2011 10:20am
sbk

A blatant example of MSM bias or just lazy journalism ?.

From todays NZ Herald,

“Former Australian PM Kevin Rudd has confirmed what the ‘latest polls clearly show’…that is was a big mistake to shelve the federal govt. ETS”

and this from the Herald Sun,

“NEW polling shows 59 per cent of people do not support a carbon tax and more than half believe it would not help the environment.”

No wonder the printed form is dying…gone are the days,when newspapers actually prided themselves on providing its readers with uptodate factual information…Nowadays it just a collection of selfserving leftists.
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April 6, 2011 10:24am
dime

Not sure how I feel about this. I know he’s done his time. But as a Warriors fan, Do I really want to be cheering for him?

MORE than seven years after committing a ”disgusting and abhorrent” crime that appeared to have ended a career that showed its promise when he became the Warriors’ youngest ever first-grade player, Shaun Metcalf has been given a second chance.

The 23-year-old centre, who was sentenced to 18 months in jail in 2004 after he and teammates Geoffrey Ruaporo and Kyle Donovan lured his then 15-year-old former girlfriend to a park where she was repeatedly kicked in the stomach in an attempt to cause a miscarriage, this week joined the Warriors’ full-time squad after signing a two-year NRL contract.
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April 6, 2011 10:35am
redeye

He’ll fit right in Dime.
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April 6, 2011 10:41am
dime

bruv hacked redeyes account?
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April 6, 2011 10:44am
Murray

I wouldn’t want to take a piss at the same urinal as him dime.

Whatever he paid his debt blah blah. But I stand by my rights under the NZ Bill of rights Act relating to freedom of association.

What kind of piece of shit endangers the life of his unborn child and its mother in an unprovoked ambush by three men. Without even looking at the statutory rape aspect this guy is sub human by any standards. apprently he thought once were warriors was a training movie.

You give him a second chance if you like… but I’d recomend keeping him away from your daughter.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=3569384

“Metcalf, 16, took his friends Geoffrey Ruaporo and Kyle Donovan to a park to meet the woman.

She was dragged from her car and repeatedly kicked in the stomach then left bruised and bleeding in a dark carpark next to a sportsfield in Mangere.

Ruaporo, who helped to plan the attack, was also jailed for 18 months when the three youths appeared in the Manukau District Court on Thursday for sentencing.

Donovan, who tried to stop the attack, was given 15 months.

All three were granted leave to apply for home detention.

They pleaded guilty to attempting to procure an abortion, aggravated robbery and injuring with intent.

The victim was a schoolgirl when, through a friend, she met Metcalf, who was turning heads on the rugby league field as a fast and strong centre.

She did not tell her parents about their one-month relationship until she discovered she was pregnant.

She says Metcalf kept asking her to have an abortion, but at five months into the pregnancy it was too late.”
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April 6, 2011 10:45am
redeye

Well he’ll be amongst women glassers, gang rapists, sodomisers, hotel hallway shitters… the list goes on. Bruv does say some idiotic things but he’s right about this.

Apparently the only reason he went the slipper on his under aged girlfriend was so could get a career playing league. Now he’s been rewarded for that. What a great game.
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April 6, 2011 11:00am
starboard

“Ruaporo, who helped to plan the attack, was also jailed for 18 months when the three youths appeared in the Manukau District Court on Thursday for sentencing.
Donovan, who tried to stop the attack, was given 15 months.
All three were granted leave to apply for home detention.”

“They pleaded guilty to attempting to procure an abortion, aggravated robbery and injuring with intent”

What sort of half baked sentence was that ! ? 18 months , 15 months and Home D ? Again I say…New Zealands justice system is a complete fucking joke.
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April 6, 2011 11:09am
Murray

WTF is this “attempting to produce an abortion” BS too. They tried to kill an unborn child endangering the life of the mother.

Wheres the assault, where the GBH, wheres the kidnapping, where the conspiarcy to commit, wheres the freaken Stat Rape?

Its like they only just managed to get them on a technicality or something.
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April 6, 2011 11:31am
Nookin

David, why are you not in the Court of Appeal and updating us on the injustices that befell Clayton Weatherston?
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April 6, 2011 11:40am
Atheist1

@Nookin – be eternally grateful you are not familiar with Mr Orlov. There are many in the legal profession, including the judiciary, who no doubt wish they could say the same…….
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April 6, 2011 11:41am
Nookin

Atheist1
You have pricked my interest. I will look him up when time permits.
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April 6, 2011 11:47am
Nookin

Atheist1 (169) Says:

April 6th, 2011 at 11:41 am
Time permitted. Didn’t take long. I take it you practice in Auckland. You are welcome to keep him.
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April 6, 2011 12:24pm
DJP6-25

hj 8:17am. That’s because the ‘green movement’ has long since become a vehicle for socialisim. Thus the end justifies the means.

cheers

David Prosser
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April 6, 2011 12:58pm
edhunter

Dime if he’d been introduced to the benefits of scratching his back on a corner girl this sorry situation would never have need arise.
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April 6, 2011 1:11pm
kaya

Finally, the money system reformers are becoming more mainstream.

Michael Meacher, British MP

When are the banks going to be reformed?

March 27th, 2011

It is astonishing that the banks, having cost the country £68bn in bailouts plus an additional £850bn in loan guarantees, asset protection schemes and enhanced liquidity, have not been reformed in any way in structure, pay, bonuses or lending. True, the Vickers Commission is due to report later this year and may some division between the investment and retail arms of banks. Or it may fudge the issue, or the Tory Party, which has been shown to get half its funding from the finance sector, may succumb to the intense lobbying from the banks to do little or nothing. So what should actually be done?

An ingenious new proposal has just been put forward by 2 NGOs, the New Economics Foundation and Positive Money, which deserves strong support. At root it involves two reforms. One is that the bank payments system is separated from risky lending activity, so that the failure of investments cannot damage the essential bank role of providing payments to depositors. This would have prevented the crash of 2007-8; only the investors would have suffered the consequences of their own recklessness and excesses, not the taxpayers. The second is that the Monetary Policy Committee (MPC) should influence money supply, not by the indirect and uncertain method of setting interest rates, but directly through the creation of new money when necessary, though only within strict constraints to avoid inflationary and deflationary pressure. That would effectively reverse the privatisation of the money supply which has existed since the 1844 Banking Act, but which the banks have colossally abused.

At present there are several enormous detriments to the existing banking system. One is that the banks create money out of thin air by repeatedly on-lending to different customers the same money secured by a small capital base, with the risk attached that any breakdown will be covered by taxpayers either through deposit insurance or through massive bailouts. Another is that under current rules the money supply can only be increased by additional bank lending which further exacerbates an already over-extended credit bubble. A third is that there is nothing to stop the banks using therir proceeds from lending to gamble on speculation in commercial property, overseas markets, tax avoidance/evasion scams, or any other money-spinning scheme rather than lending to UK business to create jobs.

Significantly, when the Government has engaged in £200bn quantitative easing over the last 3 years to extend the money supply, this money creation was intermediated through the banks which used it overwhelmingly to shore up their own rickety balance sheets rather than lend to business or householders. Nationalising control over the money supply is a key reform long overdue.
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April 6, 2011 2:00pm
publicwatchdog

Seen this?

Expect some support even from ACT Party members and Libertarians on this one! 🙂

http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/ctu-raises-fears-informant-army-nn-90130#comment-87785

CTU raises fears of informant army

The Security Intelligence Service could be able to create an army of informants immune from prosecution, MPs were told today.

Hearings on the Security Intelligence Service Amendment Bill started today, but are being held in private despite efforts by opposition parties to hold them in open.

Council of Trade Unions president Helen Kelly released its submission to media.

It said the bill opened the possibility of the SIS creating an extensive army of informants immune from criminal and civil prosecution,

“We are concerned that this bill sets up structures that will enable random surveillance without sufficient authorisation, at an extreme leading to a situation where there could be a wide network of informants throughout society,” the submission said.

The bill updates and modernises the laws covering the SIS, and deals with the warrants framework, electronic tracking devices, computer surveillance and technology like mobile phones and cyber identities.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________

Interesting how the privacy and civil liberties of individual citizens are increasingly under attack, when there is so little legislative movement building the framework for genuine transparency and accountability for those in public office?

While the legal framework is being established where ‘informants’ could presumably be paid to ‘keep an eye’ on citizens, who is ‘keeping an eye’ on those in public office?

NZ has no ‘Independent Commission Against Corruption’, no statutory third party ‘Public Watchdog’ who is tasked with ensuring and framework and systems are in place to help PREVENT corruption, and help educate the public.

MPs and Judges are not subject enforceable ‘Codes of Conduct’ to help ‘guide’ their behaviour and actions.

There are no mandatory ‘Registers of Interest’ for local government elected representatives, or staff responsible for property or procurement.

New Zealand citizens and ratepayers are not given the ‘devilish’ detail which would clearly identify where exactly our public monies are being spent on all the private ‘piggies in the middle’ consultants and contractors.

Where is the mandatory reporting requirement for the consultants’ /contractors names/scope of contracts/term and value of contracts?

Where is the publicly available ‘Register of Lobbyists’ – so that the public can find out ‘who is meeting the Minister(s)’?

All this blinding lack of transparency in New Zealand, ‘perceived’ to be the least corrupt country in the world, (along with Denmark and Singapore according to the 2010 Transparency International ‘Corruption Perception Index’.

In my considered opinion, Transparency International needs to change their measurement of corruption from one based on ‘perception’ to one based on ‘reality’.

(I suggested this at the closing plenary session, as an attendee of the 14th Transparency International Anti-Corruption Conference held in Bangkok last year.)

FYI – the NZ ‘Corruption Reality Checklist’ which I produced and distributed at this Conference is available on my blog –
22 November 2010 was the date posted.

Penny Bright
http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
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April 6, 2011 3:24pm
publicwatchdog

“# Nookin (550) Says:
April 6th, 2011 at 8:41 am

For those interested, last week was not the best of weks for Mr Siemer.

http://www.courtsofnz.govt.nz/from/decisions/judgments”

I predict that as a result of the brewing scandal that will erupt over, in my view, the DISGRACEFUL and JUDICIALLY CORRUPT treatment of Vince Siemer, there will be some major, and long-overdue changes to our NZ ‘Justice’ system.

(There is a lot more to the treatment of Vince Siemer than meets the eye, including, in my considered opinion, ‘contempt of the House’ involving the Solicitor-General, the ex-Clerk of the House, and the ex-Deputy Solicitor-General – who went on the head the Serious Fraud Office.

QUITE a trifecta, considering NZ is ‘perceived’ to be the least corrupt country in the world….

Yes – I have the FACTS to back this up – (as usual 🙂

More on that one later………… 🙂

MY PREDICTION IS THAT THE OUTCOMES WILL INCLUDE:

1) An enforceable ‘Code of Conduct’ for NZ Judges (sensibly based on the Bangalore Principles of Judicial Conduct).

2) A Pecuniary Register of Judges Interests.

3) The recording of ALL Court proceedings.

(How can ‘justice be done and be seen to be done’ – when there is no record in Court of what was done?

If you want to hear more about Vince Siemer’s ‘side of the story’ – which of course – as decent New Zealanders who believe in giving people a ‘fair go’, you will undoubtedly want to do – check out : http://www.kiwisfirst.co.nz

Penny Bright
http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
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April 6, 2011 3:41pm
publicwatchdog

“# mattyroo (504) Says:
April 6th, 2011 at 8:24 am

Refreshing, although it doesn’t go far enough, but the signs are there:

Within months police can expect an easing of restrictions for using Tasers and greater access, including one in every frontline vehicle, under new Police Commissioner Peter Marshall.

He also supports more access to firearms, tougher penalties for those who assault police, and a jail term for every time a driver flees police.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10717383”
______________________________________________________________________________________________

Anyone know what new Police Commissioner Peter Marshall intends to do about ‘white collar crime’ and corruption in NZ?

BTW – who exactly IS the ‘lead agency’ dealing with corruption in NZ?

The Police or the Serious Fraud Office?

Penny Bright
http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
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April 6, 2011 3:46pm
alex Masterley

Nookin,

Mr Orlov is one of a kind.

The photo on his chambers website says it all.

When one my colleagues makes the joke that you can never trust the submissions of a man wearing brown shoes I immediately think of him. Gives an idea of how long I have been in the profession. sigh!

And now I see Penny is channelling Ken Ring.

The most important lesson to learn from the Siemer saga is that you do not play silly games with Michael Stiassny (or any members of his family for that matter). If you do you tend to loose.
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April 6, 2011 3:53pm
publicwatchdog

# alex Masterley (594) Says:
April 6th, 2011 at 3:53 pm

And now I see Penny is channelling Ken Ring.

The most important lesson to learn from the Siemer saga is that you do not play silly games with Michael Stiassny (or any members of his family for that matter). If you do you tend to loose.”

Really?

So Michael Stiassny, (in my considered opinion) CORPORATE THUG and BULLY, is ‘above the law’?

Perhaps you didn’t know that four days after I served him personally with a ‘witness summons’ to appear in Court – he resigned as Chair of Metrowater’s Board of Directors?

Not all of us are gutless wimps who bow and scrape to Michael Stiassny, (in my considered opinion) CORPORATE THUG and BULLY.

It is not unlawful to tell the truth.

Defending ‘freedom of expression’ and the right to expose corporate fraud (and judicial corruption) – is NOT a ‘silly game’.

Mark my words – the ‘Siemer saga’ is just warming up……….

errr………… no – I am not ‘channelling Ken Ring’ – I am making a prediction based on facts, evidence and considered opinion.

(I was one of three people involved in the famous ‘Ike Finau signs’ – freedom of expression’ case – which resulted in an historical legal precedent and a significant law change.

You might care to check that case out (2002), while you are in ‘research’ mode?

Always knew that we would win the Ike Finau case, and ‘turn a bad thing into a good thing’.

Have the same feeling about what’s happened to Vince Siemer.

So – I think I have some basis for my considered opinion. 🙂

Except, in my view, the changes that will arise from the Vince Siemer case will be internationally significant, and help expose that NZ’s ‘perceived’ status as ‘the least corrupt country in the world’ – is (unfortunately) totally undeserved.

Penny Bright
http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
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April 6, 2011 4:20pm
Nookin

I think someone has beaten you to it Penny!

http://www.lawcom.govt.nz/news/2011/03/issues-paper-towards-new-courts-act-register-judges-pecuniary-interests-released-public
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April 6, 2011 4:57pm
MT_Tinman

For christs sake penny, give it a rest.

My scroll finger is tired.
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April 6, 2011 5:10pm
publicwatchdog

# Nookin (551) Says:
April 6th, 2011 at 4:57 pm

I think someone has beaten you to it Penny!

http://www.lawcom.govt.nz/news/2011/03/issues-paper-towards-new-courts-act-register-judges-pecuniary-interests-released-public

Actually no, Nookin.

I am not only aware of those developments, but in my opinion, the call for submissions (by 1 June 2011) on these Law Commission proposals will be a key mechanism for helping to to ensure the achievement of the following:

1) An enforceable ‘Code of Conduct’ for NZ Judges (sensibly based on the Bangalore Principles of Judicial Conduct).

2) A Pecuniary Register of Judges Interests.

3) The recording of ALL Court proceedings.

(How can ‘justice be done and be seen to be done’ – when there is no record in Court of what was done?

FYI – I had already contacted the appropriate person from the Law Commission, who is very much looking forward to my submission. I had rung to find out if the Law Commission were familiar with the Bangalore Principles of Judicial Conduct, because I couldn’t see any reference to them in the document to which you are referring:

http://www.lawcom.govt.nz/news/2011/03/issues-paper-towards-new-courts-act-register-judges-pecuniary-interests-released-public

So – how do you think my ‘prediction’ is looking now?

🙂

Penny Bright
http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
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April 6, 2011 6:27pm
publicwatchdog

# MT_Tinman (1,371) Says:
April 6th, 2011 at 5:10 pm

For christs sake penny, give it a rest.

My scroll finger is tired.”

err…. perhaps you should keep your ‘scroll finger’ for scrolling………?

🙂

Penny Bright
http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
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April 6, 2011 6:29pm
F E Smith

Nookin, I see that one outcome of the Weatherston appeal is for Sophie Elliot’s father to now bemoan the right of a convicted person to appeal his/her conviction. Reckon the SST might support that view as well…
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April 6, 2011 6:32pm
Manolo

Penny, mentalwise you’re further south than Rasputin and Nero combined.

Keep going woman, you may get three or four votes outside your family circle.
I’ve always maintained New Zealand is never short of nutters and deranged people, so throngs of locos will support your “sensible” nomination.

I can hardly stop pissing with laughter.
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April 6, 2011 6:38pm
Viking2

Hey everyone we have some closure on our old airplanes.

Tauranga MP Simon Bridges says it looks promising Tauranga’s Classic Flyers museum will receive one of the 17 retired Royal New Zealand Air Force Skyhawks.

Defence Minister Wayne Mapp announced today nine of these planes are earmarked for placement in museums around the country.

http://www.sunlive.co.nz/news/12314-retiring-fighter-to-tauranga.html

Well maybe, perhaps.
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April 6, 2011 6:43pm
publicwatchdog

“# Manolo (3,783) Says:
April 6th, 2011 at 6:38 pm

Penny, mentalwise you’re further south than Rasputin and Nero combined.

Keep going woman, you may get three or four votes outside your family circle.
I’ve always maintained New Zealand is never short of nutters and deranged people, so throngs of locos will support your “sensible” nomination.

I can hardly stop pissing with laughter.”

‘I’ve always maintained New Zealand is never short of nutters and deranged people’

” Looking in the bathroom mirror whilst you were dealing with your weak bladder problem – were you ‘Manolo’?

🙂

Penny Bright
http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
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April 6, 2011 6:55pm
reid

Quite a good update from Fran on Hanover.

Penny, as I think I’ve said before, why do you bother. No-one listens. No-one is ever going to. What does flogging a dead horse mean? Perhaps past time to start saying something interesting or otherwise, nothing at all.
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April 6, 2011 7:13pm
publicwatchdog

“# reid (6,682) Says:
April 6th, 2011 at 7:13 pm

Penny, as I think I’ve said before, why do you bother. No-one listens. No-one is ever going to. What does flogging a dead horse mean? Perhaps past time to start saying something interesting or otherwise, nothing at all.”

‘reid’ – what a FASCINATING post!

Any chance of explaining by what mechanism you can ascertain who exactly is ‘listening’ to what I am posting?

(Wasn’t actually aware that these posts actually made any noise? 🙂

errr….. if no one is ‘listening’ – why do you think it is that people are responding to my posts?

Do you consider yourself to be a ‘nobody’?

If you don’t – then why I am replying to you now?

Thank you so much for your errrr….. interesting, logical, and most PROFOUND post.

Now – be careful not to reply and make a complete and utter fool of yourself.

ooops!

Too late.

🙂

Penny Bright
http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
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April 6, 2011 7:28pm
Rodders

Mentioning “listening”, have a listen to this interview with Penny and decide for yourselves.

http://www.95bfm.com/assets/sm/170531/3/pennybright.mp3

As Penny says – “you’ve been warned !”
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April 6, 2011 7:38pm
Nookin

Penny

How is your prediction looking? Probably as good as my prediction that we will have a World Cup event and an election in NZ this year. Given that this has never happened previously I realise that I am right out on a limb here. I have to confess though that I did have a tip before making the prediction last week.
I am curious about the Finau signs case which you hold out to be a landmark decsion. The only decision that I can find has Mr Finau found guilty of breach of a by-law and imprisoned for contempt. The warrant was subsequently withdrawn -seemingly a facts-based rather than law based decision. What legal wilderness did the District Court wander into and what enduring monument to freedom of expression emerged? As far as I can see Joyce QC’s original decision to imprison has been approved — quite recently in fact. Maybe I have found the wrong report. I am sure that you will enlighten me.

As far as Vince and judicial corruption is concerned I am afraid that you have produced nothing to suggest that anyone should mark your words. Your “evidence” on a concurrent thread indicates a propensity to advance arguments ex silentio. Doesn’t wash with me.
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April 6, 2011 7:40pm
Caleb

Kaya, it sure does seems like we are stumbling our way towards a ‘one world currency’.
im not sure we want to go there…
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April 6, 2011 7:50pm
publicwatchdog

Ike Finau was never imprisoned for contempt.

Judge Joyce’s order of committal for contempt of court was reversed – before imprisonment- apparently in the history of the ‘common-law’ world – that had never been done before.

(I was in the Auckland District Court when this happened.)

This ‘Ike Finau signs case’ then helped to achieve a significant victory, in ‘the highest court in the land’.

Most unusually, Parliament voted against the Government – every party but Labour supported an amendment to the Local Government Bill, (s.155) that council by-laws could not be inconsistent with the Bill of Rights Act 1990.

(It was an unusual alliance of Stephen Franks (ACT) and Nandor Tanzcos (Green Party) who played the leading roles in helping to achieve this important outcome, particularly for ‘freedom of expression’.

Perhaps you could check the Hansard record from the time?

I’m REALLY busy – but I may have a copy of J Joyce’s decision amongst my documents.

If I find it I will post it on my blog.

“As far as Vince and judicial corruption is concerned I am afraid that you have produced nothing to suggest that anyone should mark your words. Your “evidence” on a concurrent thread indicates a propensity to advance arguments ex silentio. Doesn’t wash with me.”

It will.

🙂

Penny Bright
http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
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April 6, 2011 8:00pm
publicwatchdog

Found the decision.
Have posted it on my blog.

http://waterpresurre.wordpress.com

Auckland City Council v Ekenasio (Ike) Finau
N.P. No. 3350/01 :RESERVED JUDGMENT OF JUDGE RODERICK JOYCE Q.C.
[Application for stay of warrant of committal] 28 February 2003

Penny Bright
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April 6, 2011 8:08pm
publicwatchdog

Ooops!

Meant to add the rather important ‘result’!

Auckland City Council v Ekenasio (Ike) Finau
N.P. No. 3350/01 :RESERVED JUDGMENT OF JUDGE RODERICK JOYCE Q.C.
[Application for stay of warrant of committal] 28 February 2003

RESULT

[37] I thus order the permanent stay of the committal order. That stay also precludes any endeavour to recover the costs that were awarded the Council when the order was made in December.

…….. Signed on 28 February 2003 at 2.05pm

(Roderick Joyce

District Court Judge
______________________________________________________________________________________________

Penny Bright

http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
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April 6, 2011 8:12pm
reid

errr….. if no one is ‘listening’ – why do you think it is that people are responding to my posts?

Penny, you’re like the drunk at the party who staggers round and makes a nuisance of herself, all the time thinking everyone’s having a great time and you’re the life of the party.

That’s why people respond to you. Basically saying: “Go away, you’re quite wrong, we want naught to do with thee. Byeeee.”

If you’ve noticed, you hardly ever get posts agreeing with anything you say. Sometimes that says something to the people who write those, and other times it doesn’t.
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April 6, 2011 8:14pm
Longknives

I agree with everything Publicwatchdog is saying! Its inspirational! Though I am a little disappointed that my tinfoil hat hasn’t arrived in the mail yet…..
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April 6, 2011 8:26pm
Nookin

OK Penny -I have read the decision. Nothing landmark about it. Freedom of speech didn’t come into it. ACC played fast and loose with the Court. First it wanted committal and then it said it didn’t — it was in damage control. In polite terms the court said it was monumentally pissed and the council could stick its enforcement problems and stick the costs ordered in its favour as well. Then the Court said that the wrong man was in the dock – should have been the wally who wrote the submissions that Ike either couldnt understand or couldn’t enunciate. That, I guess would have been you Penny? It could not have been the feller who tried to talk for Ike, sounds like he had trouble stringing sentences together. You were lucky that you weren’t thrown into the slammer.
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April 6, 2011 8:33pm
publicwatchdog

If you’ve noticed, you hardly ever get posts agreeing with anything you say. Sometimes that says something to the people who write those, and other times it doesn’t.”

“That’s why people respond to you. Basically saying: “Go away, you’re quite wrong, we want naught to do with thee. Byeeee.”

Is that right ‘reid’?

Oh dear – then I should be a good little ‘sheeple’ and just ‘go with the flow’, without questioning, finding out the facts and thinking for myself?

Like yourself perhaps?

FYI – because you are obviously not bothering to read some of these posts form others, for whom you have apparently become their unelected ‘poster’ representative, you obviously missed this post from Nookin, who actually asked me for assistance in locating a judicial ‘report’ – which I did.

Nookin (552) Says:
April 6th, 2011 at 7:40 pm

Penny

I am curious about the Finau signs case which you hold out to be a landmark decsion. The only decision that I can find has Mr Finau found guilty of breach of a by-law and imprisoned for contempt. The warrant was subsequently withdrawn -seemingly a facts-based rather than law based decision. What legal wilderness did the District Court wander into and what enduring monument to freedom of expression emerged? As far as I can see Joyce QC’s original decision to imprison has been approved — quite recently in fact. Maybe I have found the wrong report. I am sure that you will enlighten me.”

I am unclear as to how the above-mentioned post from Nookin translates into:

“That’s why people respond to you. Basically saying: “Go away, you’re quite wrong, we want naught to do with thee. Byeeee.”

Something appears to have become ‘lost in translation’?

err…… in a rather significant way?

🙂

Penny Bright
http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
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April 6, 2011 8:42pm
reid

Pike River receiver John Fisk told The Press the situation was ‘difficult’, but the company’s priority was preserving its ‘limited resources’ for secured creditors.

I bet they do. I mean, the Receivers are the second secured creditor, and they have to be paid, don’t they. The poor darlings. I wonder how much their fees are?

She [Pike River Lawyer] said the company did not have the money to prepare the documents and witness statements the commission had requested

Seriously, documents and witness statements could be prepared very competently by your average provincial law farm, amongst which there are in many in that area around Greymouth. So why not farm out the work to them, they won’t charge city law firm rates, no sirree. And it’s a win-win.

Not rocket science, is it.
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April 6, 2011 8:44pm
reid

Is that right ‘reid’?

Yes, ‘Penny,’ it is.

Oh dear – then I should be a good little ‘sheeple’ and just ‘go with the flow’, without questioning, finding out the facts and thinking for myself?

No I didn’t say that, Penny, for you have some interesting thoughts, but not enough of them. What I’m saying, is not necessarily shut up, but change your material to something other than what you normally say. That’s all. If you can’t do that, then why don’t you go and say them somewhere else, because you take up a hell of a lot of bandwidth. You can be like an ad, Penny. Not always but sometimes quite often.
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April 6, 2011 8:51pm
publicwatchdog

Hi ‘reid’!

FYI – ever seen this?

“Murder-at-Pike-River-Mine”?

It is QUITE a read.

(It’s been doing the rounds on email, and arguably raises some VERY interesting points…)

http://www.scribd.com/doc/47745564/Murder-at-Pike-River-Mine-SECOND-EDITION-With-Postscript

It suggests a ‘cover-up’ at the highest levels.

Interesting these latest developments?

“She [Pike River Lawyer] said the company did not have the money to prepare the documents and witness statements the commission had requested ”

errrr….. what sort of ‘inquiry’ will it be if key people from the company aren’t going to ‘front’ with documents and witness statements?

Read this above-mentioned document, and it arguably may help to explain why?

_______________________________________________________________________________

Ok !

Other things to do now.

It’s been fun!

🙂

Penny Bright
http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
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April 6, 2011 8:59pm
kaya

The Pike River fiasco is disgusting. The receivers need to front, without question or excuse. The people who died there deserve nothing less. I doubt it will happen but then that seems to be the world way these days. No responsibility for actions from anyone. We wonder why our society is failing.
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April 6, 2011 9:08pm
reid

Yvette re: your 8:01, thanks for your clarification.

I personally adopt a very simple stance. Just because I can’t work out how they did it, doesn’t mean no-one else could have worked it out.

I don’t know who did it, why they did it, nor how they did it. What I do know is, the official story, is complete and utter bollocks. It is, that’s why I cited Conan-Doyle in that link in my first post on this last night.

…whatever remains, has to be the truth.

And the truth is, the official story is bollocks. Simple.

You can’t reconcile it to physics, mathematics, newtonian mechanics, the laws of thermodynamics, the testimony of thousands of witnesses and experts from all fields. You just can’t.

And that’s the truth.

So I decided, I don’t really care who did it, why they did it, and how they did it. I don’t care. I just observe what happens in the world and I think to myself, did 911 open the door for that? Or that? And maybe it did and maybe it didn’t. As I said last night, this attitude gives me the luxury of being able to take it or leave it. It may or may not be true – I don’t care. Certainly it was an epochal event but at the end of the day, I think if you really want to understand the world and all that’s in it, anyone owes it to themselves to look up the evidence and read it with an open mind, because the ramifications are profound, just as they were with Kennedy, with all that implies, if that were true. Who could possibly assassinate a President, set someone else up, get away with it, to this day? That’s pretty profound, isn’t it. That’s why people shy away from really looking at it in those terms.
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April 6, 2011 9:17pm
kaya

Reid – good response, one of the best posts I have read on here for a long time.

When people can only respond with “you are fucking nuts” or words to that effect, you know their pointof view is pretty much irrelevant. 9/11 is another Kennedy, the chances of ever finding the truth is remote. It doesn’t consume you but you are aware. Same with many historical events. Well said.
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April 6, 2011 9:26pm
reid

The Pike River fiasco is disgusting. The receivers need to front, without question or excuse.

Yeah well they may be good accountants but they sure as hell aren’t very good at PR, are they.

I wonder what the strategy is. I would have thought China would be a very good customer, notwithstanding Hickey’s excellent points in your link kaya, thanks for that.

Apparently Pike River has the high-grade coking coal China wants and needs.

So I would have thought they could stitch up some bridging finance in return for a part-share in it, with them.

Is open-cast an option there, does anyone know? Just for a second disregarding the environmental issues, if you forgot about those, is it a goer?
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April 6, 2011 9:27pm
reid

One thing kaya about Hickey, is he ignoring globalisation?

Global capital access involves open markets both ways. I know quite a few people with in particular farm and agriculture investments overseas. That’s the counter isn’t it.

Thanks too for your 9:26, most people just call me mental when I talk about that, for some reason…
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April 6, 2011 9:39pm
kaya

I was under the impression that open cast was discarded for financial reasons, not environmental or ecological? Don’t quote me on that.
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April 6, 2011 9:49pm
kaya

re counters in investment etc. I am of the opinion that QE I, II (and probably III in June) in the US, also QE in Europe and now QE in Japan post earthquake/tsunami are massively distorting world markets. The liquidity is going to all the wrong places, it is going to cause major distortions, it is going to cause great upheaval. I hope I am wrong.

Personally if I had copious amounts of cash I would be off loading it as fast as I could. Into whatever I considered to be tangible assets.
I have all the assets I need, real ones. The ones that keep a roof over your head and allow you to eat!! lol

Here’s hoping I’m wrong.
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April 6, 2011 9:59pm
kaya

Sleep time, night John boy etc.
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April 6, 2011 10:00pm

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