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April 21, 2011 7:50am by David Farrar

General Debate 21 April 2011

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starboard

The drug smuggler Armstrongs ‘whanau’ is now saying she is in need of urgent medication for her health issues…big fucking deal. You aint in socialist NZ now sweetheart..you’re in the real world over there..the ‘ole “maori are taonga we are special” bullshite aint gona wash.
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April 21, 2011 6:15pm
Nookin

See my post below (on yesterday’s GD) and Pennypost at 1.41 p.m.

Why are some people so uttlerly predictable?

“Nookin (616) Says:

April 21st, 2011 at 8:28 am
IV2
Penny had another rough day yesterday. The Supreme Court handed her mate Vince his bum on a plate yet again.
Expect another diatribe against the judiciary soon.”

Right Now : probably an interesting post but it does tend to fuck up my scolling finger. Could it have been linked?

Rex
The High Court and Court of Appeal decisions are not readily available — basically the reasoning is supressed — but from what I have been able to see, there is some talk of staged hearings and complex evidence admissibility issues. FES would probably be the one to comment but it seems to me that the Judge only trial will take place (unless reversed by the SC ) not because the jury is likely to be stupid but because of the logistical difficulties a staged hearings before a jury and dealing with the evidential issues. Given that virtually all suppression orders are made to protect the rights of a specific victim (not the case here) or the accused, I would be slow to view these decisions as an attack on civil liberties quite at this stage. The decision does raise a point of discussion but not yet. Wait till you can read the full reasoning. The post on this blog is somewhat jaundiced.
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April 21, 2011 6:21pm
starboard

The dollars at 80.25 and oils down. Cmon bastard oil companies play the game..you’re super quick increasing the price of fuel when the dollar drops but mega slow bringing it down when the dollar skyrockets. Arseholes.
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April 21, 2011 6:31pm
immigant

In yesterday’s debate Penny admitted that she doesn’t have a paid job, doesn’t receive money from WINZ, but is a self-funded public watchdog, that get’s buy on ‘donations.’

Is that just another word to say she’s a lobbyist, paid to push an agenda then? Since her main source of income seems to be ‘public watchdogging’ = lobbying.

….eh…
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April 21, 2011 6:37pm
RightNow

Nookin, sorry about the long post, to be honest the punchline wasn’t worth reading the whole thing for anyway.
It was actually an experiment as to whether people bothered to read it all, skipped through to the punchline, or just didn’t read it at all. FYI I skimmed through the whole thing before getting to the lame punchline.
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April 21, 2011 6:39pm
Manolo

Did she say “watch-dogging” or “work-dodging”? It seems the latter to me, so we have another bludger in our midst.
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April 21, 2011 6:40pm
Rodders

@immigant – I seem to recall Penny saying that her house is freehold so her only income is from her tenants.
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April 21, 2011 6:42pm
Nookin

Right now.
So did I and liked the punchline. Reminded me of Dennis Norden and Frank Muir’s “My Word”
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April 21, 2011 6:48pm
immigant

watch-dogging is a word i made up because it exposes her stupid attempts to cover up the fact that she is a lobbyist, by using the word watch-dog. I might be a ignant immigant, but I know BS when I see it.

She never mentioned tennants. Quote please.
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April 21, 2011 7:00pm
Rodders

@immigant – She mentioned in this audio interview that she has been surviving on income from a flatmate.

http://www.95bfm.co.nz/assets/sm/196809/3/PennyBright2.mp3
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April 21, 2011 7:07pm
immigant

In fact tenants in your own home as a form of income is even more unethical and disqualifies her from debate. Unless the tenants pay through a system that is transparent to the IRD. But knowing how having flatmates, excuse me tenants works, you just get cash in hand, pay no taxes. Consequently if you do not pay taxes, you cannot participate in political debate on the grounds of being an unpatriotic and a leach.

Do not ask if you love you country – ask if you pay taxes!

Interview? 🙁 sigh……
Interview or not I still really don’t like her. Does she pay tax on that income?
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April 21, 2011 7:09pm
Nookin

Immigant
I have seen her mention tenants. Cannot remember where.
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April 21, 2011 7:09pm
Rodders

immigant says “you just get cash in hand, pay no taxes?”

Out of interest, there appears to be an IRD exemption if the board is less than $232/week:
http://www.ird.govt.nz/income-tax-individual/different-income-taxed/rental-income/boarders/incometax-boarders-flyer.html
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April 21, 2011 7:38pm
Rex Widerstrom

@Nookin

Thanks, I’d missed that response.

there is some talk of staged hearings and complex evidence admissibility issues.

I agree that empanelling a jury for the aount of time it’s likely to take would be problematic, but that’s something the court ought to be pressuring the Department and the Minister to address, perhaps by way of increased stipends etc. Lots of trials are likely to be lengthy, and that doesn’t seem to me to be sufficient excuse to seny an accused the right to a jury if they want one.

Similarly admisssability is regualrly argued about during cases, in the absence of the jury. I don’t see why this should be different.

Given that virtually all suppression orders are made to protect the rights of a specific victim (not the case here) or the accused, I would be slow to view these decisions as an attack on civil liberties quite at this stage.

That’s why I’m inclined to attack it though. I have honestly tried and I can think of no legitimate reason for suppressing the reasons for the decision. It reeks of something rather unpleasant and, if it’s allowed to progress much further before public protest forces a re-think, may become irreversible.
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April 21, 2011 7:42pm
Nookin

I am looking forward to reading the judgment but unless the SC overturns CA it will be a long way off. I understand that there will be a single trial but it does not necessarily follow that each face the same charges. Could get complicated.
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April 21, 2011 7:46pm
immigant

Rodders

Penny is clearly part of a vast communist conspiracy! She worked with the previous government to pre-empt all my attempts to destroy her by manipulating legislation. That is my story and I’m sticking to it.

Christ, living on less than $232 a week. I’d rather wash toilets then live like that.
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April 21, 2011 7:55pm
Steve

Red Blert is going apeshit over this ‘Stop the Assets’ thing. Raving nutbars on the loose.
http://blog.labour.org.nz/
Actually they are very quiet. Oh fuck that shit in the nest stinks
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April 21, 2011 8:12pm
Pete George

Ah Steve, but they do highlight Donald Trump – if he is considered alongside the likes of Palin as potential POTUS then US politics is even more barren of hope for recovery than I thought.

pdm must be trying to stir up some comment:

Donald Trump will be a welcome boost to America and the world economies if he becomes President especially if he has Sarah Palin in his camp.

Phew!
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April 21, 2011 8:16pm
Rodders

You mean this gem from Darien Fenton?

http://blog.labour.org.nz/index.php/2011/04/21/donald-trump-a-prize-chump/

Clealy she’s got too much time on her hands.
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April 21, 2011 8:18pm
aquataur

FFS
When is a Dep CE of the Maori Language Comm a top level public servant ?

A low level functionary is a more accurate description – no-one I know in the PS would ever regard this role in the light it is being portrayed in the media
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April 21, 2011 8:18pm
immigant

Was that storry about the Cocane smuggler real?!! I glanced over it and thought that she was mistakenly accused.
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April 21, 2011 8:20pm
Viking2

Thursday, 21, Apr, 2011 1:56PM

With Parliament in recess, MPs are heading offshore for business.

Also Associate Health Minister Tariana Turia is heading to Russia to attend a meeting on healthy lifestyles and non-communicable diseases.

Going to meet Putin perhaps for some get fit lessons.
Summer at the Black Sea perhaps?

This has to be a joke on the taxpayer. I mean it couldn’t be serious could it?
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April 21, 2011 8:32pm
immigant

A meeting in Russia about healthy lifestyles and non-communicable deseases. That’s almost an oxymoron.
Why is Turia going there exactly?
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April 21, 2011 8:40pm
Rodders

Perhaps she is more interested in this:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-10-04/russia-plans-to-ban-tobacco-advertising-public-smoking-by-2015.html
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April 21, 2011 9:10pm
nasska

Wellington Weather

New Zealand is a long narrow country with a huge coastline & climate varies between North & South. Wellington is known to be one of the coldest places in New Zealand. This is how tough Wellington people are:

+25°C: Northlanders turn on the heat. Bay of Plenty residents sunbathe.
+10°C: Aucklanders turn on the heat. People in Palmerston North plant gardens.
+5°C: Dunedin residents shiver uncontrollably. People in Wellington go swimming.
+2°C: Italian cars won’t start. People in Wellington drive with the windows open.
0°C: Distilled water freezes. Wellington water gets thicker.
-7°C: Christchurch people wear coats, gloves, and wool hats. People in Wellington throw on a T-shirt.
-9°C: Southerners begin to evacuate Invercargill. People in Wellington go camping.
-18°C: Dunedin employers finally turn on the central heating. People in Wellington have a last BBQ before it gets cold.
-23°C: People in Northland cease to exist. People in Wellington lick flagpoles.
-29°C: Auckland people fly away to South Pacific islands. People in Wellington throw on a light jacket.
-40°C: Whangarei disintegrates. People in Wellington rent videos.
-51°C: Mt. Maunganui freezes. Wellington Girl Guides begin selling Guide biscuits door to door.
-62°C: Polar bears begin to evacuate the Arctic. Penguins leave Antarctica. Wellington Scouts postpone “Winter Survival” classes until it gets cold enough.
-73°C: Santa Claus abandons the North Pole. People in Wellington put on a coat.
-114°C: Ethyl alcohol freezes. People in Wellington get frustrated when they can’t thaw their kegs.
-183°C: Microbial life start to disappear. Wellington cows complain of farmers with cold hands.
-273°C: ALL atomic motion stops. People in Wellington start saying “Cold ’nuff for ya?”
-296°C: Hell freezes over. The Hurricanes win the Super 15.
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April 21, 2011 9:34pm
reid

Scientifically speaking, it’s only a matter of time before drones become self-aware and kill us all. Now the Air Force is hastening that day of reckoning.

Crikey.
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April 21, 2011 9:38pm
Pauleastbay

Argentinian Judge sentencing ex minor level Wellington functionary:

For possessing 5 k.g’s of cocaine you are to receive a suspended prison sentence – for being so stupid you have set the progress of any female in paid employment back 50 years, 20 years imprisonment.

No sympathy ,just a fucking dolt.
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April 21, 2011 9:53pm
Gooner

I’ve just heard I am contributing to the Americas Cup. We all are to the tune of $36million.

Fuck this.

Why do I get up in the morning, work until 7-8pm most days, go in on weekends, slave my guts out just to contribute to this? I cannot even be bothered arguing how wrong this is; I am just too despondent to even try.

I understand the tourist and economic arguments. Truly, I do. But the bottom line is this: Once you fund this you open the door for dozens of others to ask for similar money. I can think of 5 off the top of my head. Then governments start picking winners. And that is where the problems lay. You either believe governments have a role in picking winners, or you don’t. And I don’t. Why don’t they fund the Pure Black cycling and their goal to win a stage in the Tour de France? The Tour is bigger than the Americas Cup and has just as much economic benefit. And Pure Black is Kiwi owned. Who owns Team New Zealand?

I’m just so against this. But I await the apologists defending it, but then scream from the rooftops when Labour funds its winners.
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April 21, 2011 9:54pm
Pauleastbay

Gooner

I’d love the Tour de France to be here in New Zealand, I wouldn’t have to sit up all night watching it, but I can’t see the frogs giving it up because it has significant economic benefits for the countries that its runs through now……….so I am not going to say …If we win the Americas Cup again there could be significantly more economic benefits for NZ than a paltry 36 million..
because I may seem to be supporting the idea.

Much better to just keep on forking all our taxes over to beneficiaries rather than attempting something positive. I believe you reside in Hurricanes territory and may be a bit delicate but lets try…

Labour – winners,, oxymoronic surely?
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April 21, 2011 10:04pm
reid

No sympathy ,just a fucking dolt.

Yes maybe but to me Paul she sure don’t look like your knowing drug mule.

This was a six-month cultivation on their part before they set her up.

Sure she may have been foolish but what more than that, can we conclude on current known facts.

And if she was in fact only that, then what a freaking disproportionate out-of-balance-to-what-she-did tragedy she is currently experiencing and will continue to.
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April 21, 2011 10:07pm
Gooner

If [we win the Americas Cup]….could be…[economic benefits].

Might be. Could be. Possibly. Maybe.

THIRTY SIX MILLION DOLLARS!!!
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April 21, 2011 10:09pm
Pauleastbay

Reid

Come on, you believe the 11 September attacks were orchestrated by the POTUS so …………………………………………..

who set this poor dupe up then?………..firstly online dating then “by the way honey just swing by SA and pick up a parcel for us will ya. I love ya. …………….This alone deserves a jail sentence.

Jesus wept and said to himself “I got my wrists pierced for these clowns”
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April 21, 2011 10:14pm
Pauleastbay

Gooner

I sizeable wedge of cash no doubt, but a punt that’s worth while. Its an attempt at positivity- better than flushing it away on real pie in the sky dreams like equality for all.
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April 21, 2011 10:18pm
reid

who set this poor dupe up then?

I don’t disagree Paul. She was a der. Just that on current facts you can’t call evil on it, quite yet.

BTW, I don’t believe that, but you were trying to be lefty weren’t you and pretending I’ve said something I haven’t. I thought you were a conservative Paul East?
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April 21, 2011 10:25pm
Mary Rose

To Right Now:
If you know the person who is publishing the thesis, feel free to tell them:

“People in the first group, who read the entire joke, tend to enjoy the journey of life, and take their time as they move towards a goal.”

People in the first group have way too much time on their hands!
Also, given that’s an online test: people in the first group are clearly internet addicts with no other interests.

I can sit and read a long novel right through, if I have the time free to do so.
Reading one third of this over-written tale and then skipping to the end to see if there was any point to it proves only that the story was too boring to care how it continued.
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April 21, 2011 10:29pm
Mary Rose

Paul; “I’d love the Tour de France to be here in New Zealand,”

Er, you mean you’d like a round-NZ bike race?

Silly Sharon really was gullible.
“She was due to travel to London to meet him but, at the last minute, her flights were changed to go via Argentina, where the man reportedly asked her to pick up some documents relating to a new job.”

Cos yeah: “Hi darling, I wonder if I could ask you to swing by Argentina on your way from New Zealand to London?” really is minor favour and not suspicious at all.
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April 21, 2011 10:35pm
Manolo

Charles Manson, the sane scientist (and murderer), joins the warmists’ brigade. He’ll soon be applying for Green Party membership.

‘Everyone’s God and if we don’t wake up to that there’s going to be no weather because our polar caps are melting because we’re doing bad things to the atmosphere.

‘If we don’t change that as rapidly as I’m speaking to you now, if we don’t put the green back on the planet and put the trees back that we’ve butchered, if we don’t go to war against the problem…’
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April 22, 2011 5:30am
Manolo

Yes, he is very humble.

On Wednesday, President Obama held a town hall at the headquarters of Facebook in Palo Alto, California, during which he was asked, “If you had to do anything differently during your first four years, what would it be?” Obama, it turns out, is no better at analysing his own missteps than Bush.

The president began his response haltingly, pointing out that he has actually been in office just two and a half years, and “I’m sure I’ll make more mistakes in the next year and a half.” But what mistakes has he already made? “There are all sorts of day-to-day issues where I say to myself, oh, I didn’t say that right, or I didn’t explain this clearly enough,” Obama said, “or maybe if I had sequenced this plan first as opposed to that one, maybe it would have gotten done quicker.”

But the president mentioned no actual mistakes.
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April 22, 2011 6:04am
Pete George

“Silly Sharon” won’t be slapped with a wet bus ticket in sympathy for being a poor dupe. If that was an acceptable reason for leniency every drug runner would be a “poor dupe”. And – we don’t know if the “poor dupe” is an act or for real, do we.

She’s stuffed up, acted against common sense and apparently against the advice of people close to her. Every alarm bell should have been ringing.

Some people make silly mistakes that cost them their life. Some people make silly mistakes that cost them their freedom. Life can be a bit of a bitch sometimes.
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April 22, 2011 7:38am
magic bullet

Manolo:

Actually quite surprisingly, the nutter Manson is probably closer to the truth than most with that quote. Consider the innate and universal yearning of humans to become more self-aware, to explore our surroundings and understand them. In a very real sense we seem to be an expression of the universe’s consciousness. Everyone has a chance to contribute to the expansion and refinement of the human collective and subjective consciousness. We all have that amazing power in common. To me, this is why we should all attempt to show each other the utmost respect (a standard i frequently fall short of). If a majority of people were to understand this, people would never tolerate dictatorship, nor the wielding of blunt force in general. The advancement of consciousness is a dialectical process, involving the never-ending reconciliation of opposing, or apparently contradictory narratives/views. This is why reasoning is so much more important to the advancement of consciousness, than blunt-force measures. Blunt force seeks to discipline competing narratives by compelling them to change. But reason seeks to let the dialectic flow, to let us, an expression of the universe’s consciousness, come to a more pure form of consciousness. Authoritarianism retards the process. That is why it is the enemy of light and progress.
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April 22, 2011 9:00am
lilman

Happen to know Sharron very well, can be a nice thing when she makes the effort,we all can be I assume.
But to call her intelligent is a bridge to far for this writer.
Also she is very street smart,make no bones about this point, she knows how the game is played and is not a shrinking violet,sorry Sharron but you made a decision and it backfired.
If you asked me to believe her story ,knowing her as I do then I would have to be honest and say,”I dont think so!”.
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April 22, 2011 9:06am
wat dabney

“Consider the innate and universal yearning of humans to become more self-aware, to explore our surroundings and understand them. ”

The fact that you only seem capable of trotting out a collection of unexamined prejudices and fallacies does rather undermine this argument…
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April 22, 2011 9:50am
magic bullet

Wat – it wasn’t supposed to be a grand-totalising metaphysical system. Just a way of looking at existence. Everyone has their own belief systems. In my opinion, most organised religions tend to look back too much rather than forward. They are systems of thought, which had their time and place, but we need not suffer their intransigence to progress any longer. Social conservatism holds us back in many ways. The up-holding of tradition is seen as a good thing in itself, but the world changes, and so must our ways of looking at the world. What i have written above are just the truths that keep coming back to me throughout my life. Other people will have their own truths.
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April 22, 2011 1:46pm

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