General Debate 20 April 2011

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Brian Harmer

With all due respect to the families of Pike River, their spokesperson seems to have lost touch with the realities. I would love to see the bodies recovered, but at what cost, and at whose expense?
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April 20, 2011 8:21am
wreck1080

The NZ government (or, private citizen ) needs to make something like this, so all Kiwi’s can see where our money goes . . .

http://www.wheredidmytaxdollarsgo.com/tax_payers
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April 20, 2011 8:25am
Manolo

Well said, Brian Harmer.
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April 20, 2011 8:28am
Manolo

Another scam inflicted on Wellington taxpayers by the greedy Iwi:

Secret negotiations have left Wellington City Council on the verge of a backdown that will see it abandon its claims to ownership of the disputed Te Raukura waka.

Documents obtained by The Dominion Post reveal that the council plans to relinquish all rights of ownership and possession of the waka and abandon High Court proceedings to have it returned to the care of the city.

In return, it will receive $150,000 – which it will spend on building a new waka. The deal would result in Te Raukura remaining with Waiwhetu Maori in Lower Hutt and not feature, as intended, in the waterfront’s custom-built wharewaka.

The waka cost Wellington ratepayers about $100,000 to build in 1989. Since then it is understood to have cost the council about $250,000, including $80,000 in legal fees.

The council refused to comment on the proposal last night because councillors had not yet debated the issue, and because some councillors were not at a briefing held yesterday. Wharewaka Trust chief Sir Ngatata Love was at the briefing but did not return calls. Teri Puketapu, from Waiwhetu Maori, could not be contacted last night.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/4907683/Council-may-relinquish-claim-to-disputed-waka
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April 20, 2011 8:33am
Pete George

Labourites sometimes posit a hope (of desperation?) that if they can get to 35% plus they may be able to cobble together a coalition. I have asked several times why they think a party with much less vote should become the major coalition partner – never an answer.

A feasible election scenario is something like National 45%, Labour 36%, Greens 9%, NZF 5% – with Peter Dunne Labour could squeak in with Greens and NZF, or with the help of the Maori Party.

– National should have first dibs at forming a coalition or minority government? Or in the quest for power does anything go?
– if Peters gets back in presumably he’d go with anyone offering baubles, which is only Labour . Some (I think incorrectly) say National would turn to Peters if he was needed to make up the numbers.
– what is the Green policy on supporting a party with a smaller vote? I know they would prefer Labour, but they claim to be a party of principles.
– Peter Dunne will go with whatever coalition there is – would he give National first shot?
– Maori Party have shown they will join National, would they give them first shot or simply turn to Labour?

I can understand if the two major party votes were very close that coalition negotiations could be open slather, but if one had a 10% margin over the other how would the electorate feel if they were shut out by other parties joining forces? What if the margin was 5%?
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April 20, 2011 8:35am
Manolo

– What is the Green policy on supporting a party with a smaller vote? I know they would prefer Labour, but they claim to be a party of principles.

The Luddites are a sort of Labour’s love child, so it’s only logical for the Green Party to gravitate towards the socialists, although there is a slim chance that the backward-looking hippies could join National.

Party of principles, did you say? Yes, but the principles of socialism and authoritarism, which are very dear to the watermelons.
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April 20, 2011 8:42am
KiwiGreg

@ manolo one question would be what is the source of the $150k the council is allegedly getting.

If it actually comes from the iwi I’m just a bit saddened that buying canoes is their A priority.
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April 20, 2011 8:56am
barry

Ive just come to the realisation that NZ First will be back.

Why – well when push comes to shove those who are pissed off with labour, and who just cant force their hand to tick the national box on the voting paper, will look down the list and very possibly tick NZ First. Winston is going to pitch his story to all those who are abandoning Labour and Maori.
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April 20, 2011 9:02am
Puzzled in Ekatahuna

@ Brian Harmer [and Manolo] did the Pike River bodies recovery costs just hit you out of the blue this morning or does something in particular [a link] prompt your comment?
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April 20, 2011 9:07am
Rodders

Sad news for fans of classic Dr Who

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-13137674
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April 20, 2011 9:18am
Chris2

From today’s Dom-Post:

The former deputy chief executive of the Maori Language Commission has been arrested in Argentina, accused of trying to leave the country with five kilograms of cocaine in a false-bottomed suitcase.

There won’t be much call for speaking maori in an Argentine prison. Hope she has commenced learning Spanish.
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April 20, 2011 9:21am
Manolo

or does something in particular [a link] prompt your comment?

I listened ion the radio to one of the relatives who when interviewed expressed his opinion the government should do “whatever it takes” to recover the bodies.

While I fully sympathise with the people who have lost family members in this tragic event, I’m also prepared to accept the inescapable reality that some of the bodies will never be recovered. It appears to be physically and materially impossible.

Getting closure is one thing, blindness and delusion are something else.
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April 20, 2011 9:30am
Peter

I doubt the greenies would have any problem with a tiny minority leading the country, namely them.

After all, they’re the “smart” party. By definition, everyone who doesn’t vote for them is therefore “not smart”. It is up to the “smart” to tell the “not smart” how to live their lives. This explains their low vote percentage, of course. Most people aren’t smart, and therefore are presumably too stupid to vote Green.

Elitist (well, not to those looking in from outside, of course) authoritarianism. Right up their alley.
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April 20, 2011 9:39am
ciaron

What is it with small yappy dogs taking on stuff way too big for them?
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April 20, 2011 9:41am
Manolo

From Muriel Newman’s latest newsletter:

Wahi Tapu
We warned that iwi could use wahi tapu as a device to exclude the public from large tracts of the coast. In response the Attorney General claimed that wahi tapu are “small discrete areas of particular significance to Maori groups for cultural or spiritual reasons”.

Yet last week Business Day reported how a coastal tribe, wanting to stop a tidal power project from going ahead, is suggesting that wahi tapu be placed over the entire Kaipara Harbour – one of the largest harbours in the world – to make it a cultural no-go zone and “shut the whole thing down.”
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April 20, 2011 9:57am
cabbage

So. I was talking to a friend last night who’s 15 year old daughter procured ‘the pill’ from a doctor without his knowledge. Obviously, by law this is a private matter between the girl, and her doctor. My friend and the girls mother are totally irrelevant in the eyes of righteous privacy.

The problem is, when my friend found out that his daughter was taking an oral contraceptive, he sat down to have a talk with her about the pro’s and cons. He informed her of how the pill works, it’s possible effects on her cycles, etc etc and left it to her to do research and make her own decision. The problem here is that it appears that the doctor did not inform her of any of this. Furthermore, apparantly there was no discussion between her and the doctor about steps she could take to minimise exposure to STI’s whilst using ‘the pill’. And lastly, she’s 15. How likely is it that a 15 year old will be organised enough to ensure that they don’t miss a day when taking pills? and If they do forget, how many are likely abstain from unprotected sex?

Keeping the above in mind, it concerns me that the law values a childs right to privacy over and above the childs health and future opportunity. With this type of attitude, is it any wonder that rates of teen pregnancy and sexually transmitted infection are so high?
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April 20, 2011 10:05am
Murray

Stoneage supersition as a device for blackmail Manolo.

And our spineless left wing media will suck it up and resell it as entirely resonable.
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April 20, 2011 10:22am
redeye

Obama is gone!!! Hes doesn’t stand a chance. Gary Busey has just endorsed The Donald. Bwa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

http://www.salon.com/news/2012_elections/?story=/ent/tv/feature/2011/04/19/gary_busey_endorses_trump

Let’s call it right now: The 2012 race is over. Gary Busey has officially endorsed Donald Trump for president, and with the critical “Busey-heads” swing vote accounted for, Obama shouldn’t even bother running. Here’s Gary, from the press conference he held in his bed today.
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April 20, 2011 10:29am
KevinH

Winston Peters is enjoying a resurgence in the polls and has to be considered as a serious contender for Parliament in December. This all depends on how much he gets in the popular vote, possibly around the 5-6% range, sufficient to return him, but insufficient to make a difference.
With John Key ruling Winston out as a coalition partner that would leave Winston with Labour as his only coalition partner which no doubt Winston will manipulate to his advantage. However it is unlikely that Labour will get the numbers to be a threat to National thereby eliminating the possibility of a coalition of the left.
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April 20, 2011 10:31am
Brian Harmer

Puzzled in Ekatahuna: Same source as Manolo … I heard Mr Monks (?) who was in turn commenting on the likelihood of the mine being sold. He said something like “if these people think we will let them ….”

While making all allowances for the grief, I think he is mistaken in his belief that he has any particular powers in respect of the mine, and if I wanted the cooperation of any new owners, I would choose my words more carefully.
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April 20, 2011 10:59am
Sofia

Yet last week Business Day reported how a coastal tribe, wanting to stop a tidal power project from going ahead, is suggesting that wahi tapu be placed over the entire Kaipara Harbour – one of the largest harbours in the world – to make it a cultural no-go zone and “shut the whole thing down.”

That the concept of wahi tapu may be a matter more of convenience is reflected in the fact Maori will not place a rahui on tobacco products.

He aha te mea nui? He tangata, he tangata, he tangata.
We have the heart and the support of our ancestors and the unborn.
No, not that can be seen so far.
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April 20, 2011 11:00am
TripeWryter

Cabbage:

Yes, school counsellors can organise it for young schoolgirls to be prescribed the pill, and without the parents’ knowledge or consent.

They can also, and have done, helped girls get abortions, also without the parents’ knowledge.

Thus a family I knew (their daughters were friends with mine) were confronted with the reality of a 17 year-old bleeding heavily without apparent reason after a state-funded abortion in a state-funded clinic by state-funded doctors and nurses.

Her parents had no idea what was happening, and only after they got their daughter to a hospital were they told what had happened.

Suddenly the parents, who had been ignored in the whole process, now were responsible for her. The state-funded counsellor at the state-funded girls’ school suddenly didn’t want to know and covered their arses in a blizzard of state-funded paperwork and a barrage of state-funded justifications.

There was no recourse. Procedures had been followed. Everything had been done according to the law.

Terrible situation for parents to be in, eh?
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April 20, 2011 11:12am
jonnobanks

Silly Melissa Lee MP – why is she an MP?

http://www.boingboing.net/2011/04/17/nz-mp-votes-for-anti.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+boingboing%2FiBag+%28Boing+Boing%29&utm_content=Twitter
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April 20, 2011 11:27am
stephen

http://www.wheredidmytaxdollarsgo.com/tax_payers

Shoot, makes getting married slightly more attractive doesn’t it…
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April 20, 2011 11:54am
ciaron

Top tip for the day.

when returning your work phone, please make sure to do a factory reset lest some unscrupulous colleague makes public some of your private correspondence

I’ve just found some interesting stuff on my new hand-me-down work phone… 🙂
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April 20, 2011 1:03pm
Manolo

This load of bollocks from Gluckman, Key’s right, science advisor and firm believer in global warming, and ETS supporter.
What a cheek!

How to make good government policy

It can be argued that the primary business of democratic government is the development and implementation of good policy and the optimal allocation of resources to support those policy decisions.

“Good” policy has the desired effects and, where possible, does not have unanticipated secondary effects. A key factor in making good policy is the use of high- quality evidence about the issues in question so as to define or resolve the range of options available to the policymaker.

Bad policy can emerge when the evidence is ignored or compromised – indeed it is clear that such a disconnect lay at the core of the social, economic and political consequences of the mad-cow disease epidemic in Britain. In every jurisdiction there are social intervention problems that are continued because there is no substantive evidence as to either their effect or lack of effect.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/4904120/How-to-make-good-government-policy
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April 20, 2011 1:12pm
simonway

More Castro/Cuba news.
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April 20, 2011 1:33pm
Inventory2

KevinH said

Winston Peters is enjoying a resurgence in the polls and has to be considered as a serious contender for Parliament in December. This all depends on how much he gets in the popular vote, possibly around the 5-6% range, sufficient to return him, but insufficient to make a difference.

You obviously missed the 3News poll on Sunday Kevin; the one that showed Winston at 2.8%, and on the way down.

BTW; where’s Penny today. I’m wondering if she;s going to apologise for accusing me of “intellectual laziness” over Winston Peters and the $158k, when SHE was the one whose research was faulty, and SHE was the one who made a statement of fact that was so simply rebutted. “Intellectual laziness” – pfffft!
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April 20, 2011 1:34pm
Rodders

I2 said “where’s Penny today”

She is probably out and about looking for windmills to tilt at.
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April 20, 2011 1:59pm
Rick Rowling

Oh geez Inventory2, don’t feed the troll!
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April 20, 2011 2:00pm
RightNow

I2 – you know she’s created a self-image in her mind that she now can’t reconcile with reality. The facts presented regarding Winston not repaying the money don’t fit with her perception of reality and it is likely that her subconscious is blocking the uptake of those facts. Much like for an anorexic looking in the mirror and seeing a fat person.
I’m only surmising, but I suspect she’s inching closer to an actual psychotic break.

I’m sure she’ll be back later throwing aspersions at all and sundry while conveniently ignoring the facts, presenting a cheerful ‘I’m superior to all of you’ attitude and wishing us a nice day.
While I am having a nice day already I am a little concerned that Penny might be nearing an ‘episode’. She said she has ‘a man’ so hopefully he’s able to provide her with support if that eventuates.
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April 20, 2011 2:01pm
Pete George

Rex’s post, , Tilting at drugmulesdeserves a look here as well…

David Simon: Oh, I would decriminalize drugs in a heartbeat. I would put all the interdiction money, all the incarceration money, all the enforcement money, all of the pretrial, all the prep, all of that cash, I would hurl it as fast as I could into drug treatment and job training and jobs programs. I would rather turn these neighborhoods inward with jobs programs. Even if it was the urban equivalent of FDR’s CCC—the Civilian Conservation Corps—if it was New Deal–type logic, it would be doing less damage than creating a war syndrome. The drug war is war on the underclass now. That’s all it is. It has no other meaning.

Until we decriminalise the possession and use (not manufacture and sale) of drugs; till we realise that it’d be healthier to prescribe heroin, or morphine, than the destructive, debilitating soup that is morphine; till we intervene early in the life of anyone addicted, with a finely tuned mixture of incentives and disincentives, we are, like Don Quixote, marching innocents into hell for a heavenly cause.

I don’t think either National or Labour would have the guts to change direction on drugs here, they are both too addicted to chasing the “get tough” votes.
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April 20, 2011 2:05pm
tristanb

Thus a family I knew (their daughters were friends with mine) were confronted with the reality of a 17 year-old bleeding heavily without apparent reason after a state-funded abortion in a state-funded clinic by state-funded doctors and nurses.

“Her parents had no idea what was happening, and only after they got their daughter to a [state-funded] hospital were they told what had happened.”

So the state handled the complication. Some bleeding after an abortion isn’t unusual.

Why should a 17 year old need to get her parents’ permission to get rid of an unwanted pregnancy? I promise you that the clinic would have advised her to discuss this with them. I’d rather have the state pay for the abortion, than pay for her lifetime DPB and the cost of bringing up the kid into a family that doesn’t want it.

It sounds like she did the right thing.

In this case her parents may have been reasonable people, but a lot of people do not have parents who would be supportive of such a move, and they’d get the bash for getting pregnant.
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April 20, 2011 2:21pm
Rex Widerstrom

@Pete George, thanks for picking that up.

Lest anyone wonder what the hell I’m talking about, however, I should point out that the last paragraph should read “…the destructive, debilitating soup that is methadone“.

Not the fault of The Standard; entirely mine. Hopefully they’ll correct it soon.

@Murray:

Stoneage supersition as a device for blackmail Manolo.

Someone posted yesterday about a self appointed “guardian of the lake” chasing people off it. There’s no such kowtowing in Australia. While traditional beliefs are respected (by most, at least), law breaking is not:

Two Kimberley Aboriginal elders have been fined $1200 each and ordered to pay almost $70,000 in costs after being convicted of attacking two men who strayed on to a sacred site on native title land.

The trial had been dubbed a test case as to how far traditional owners’ rights over land granted to them under native title extend. It has involved extensive hearings in Broome and Bidyadanga.
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April 20, 2011 2:33pm
immigant

Carrying on from my Sunday’s knife fight with Penny.

Penny, you have described yourself as a self-funded watchdog. You have also state don several occasins that you do not receive taxpayer money.

Can you please confirm that you are not receiving money from WINZ?
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April 20, 2011 2:39pm
Manolo

Showdown in Wellington tonight: the Luddite mayor to face the rebels.

Wellington’s mayor under the microscope

The biggest test of Celia Wade-Brown’s mayoralty is looming tonight as her opponents try to force the city council into supporting the Government’s options for $2.4 billion of roading projects for the region.

Tonight’s extraordinary meeting has been called after a majority of councillors joined forces in an effort to reassure the Transport Agency that it has council support for projects including a possible flyover to the north of the Basin Reserve, duplicate Terrace and Mt Victoria tunnels, and making Ruahine St and Wellington Rd four lanes.

Ms Wade-Brown, who campaigned against roading projects during last year’s election, backed previous council commitment of support, but in principle only. She would rather see bus priority lanes at the Basin Reserve than a flyover, and wants a light rail system between the railway station and airport, via the hospital, within 10 years.

Mixed messages coming from Ms Wade-Brown led the Transport Agency to write to her seeking clarification of council support for its big roading projects. Ms Wade-Brown said she would hold a meeting within the next six weeks to sort out the issue. But that was seen as a delaying tactic by most councillors, who were concerned the agency might use the $2.4b elsewhere in the country.

So nine councillors signed a requisition last week that forced council chief executive Garry Poole to schedule an extraordinary meeting. Tonight is the earliest it could be legally convened.
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April 20, 2011 3:07pm
simonway

TrypeWriter: did the hospital tell the parents that the girl had had an abortion without asking the girl about it first? If so, that’s a shocking invasion of her privacy.
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April 20, 2011 3:36pm
Caleb

shocking. how dare those parents. the state is the parent.
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April 20, 2011 4:55pm
virtualmark

wreck1080, stephen …

There’s been a New Zealand version for a few months now … http://tax.southgatelabs.com/
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April 20, 2011 5:05pm
starboard

A prison officer who guarded notorious career criminal John Gillies begged the Department of Corrections not to release him.
Gillies was jailed for 12 years for the 1993 stabbing of Gisborne police constable Nigel Hendrikse with a screwdriver in the neck, chest and thigh.
Granted parole in 2003, he was jailed two years for assaulting two policemen and possessing cocaine and methamphetamine. He is due to be paroled next month, a year earlier than the set date.

In an email sent to the Department of Corrections last night, uncovered by the Hawke’s Bay Today, a prison guard said he had known Gillies for 10 years at Auckland Prison and held grave fears for the public’s safety.

“Please do not release John Gillies,” the email said. “You look in his eyes and he has no soul…in short he is evil and nasty.

“I have known this man for 10 years. He will hurt again. I hope it’s not my family and not yours but some family will suffer due to his release. Keep John in prison and away from us, I beg you. He will hurt again.”

Stupid prison officer…what would he know…Gillies is just misunderstood. I’ll stake a grand on the table that Gillies will have breached his parole conditions and be back in prison by the end of the year. Any takers?
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April 20, 2011 5:55pm
Christopher Thomson

I would also add that his offending will involve violence and drugs – that was too easy to foretell. However, will he kill?
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April 20, 2011 6:30pm
starboard

its a given.
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April 20, 2011 6:59pm
David Garrett

Sadly you will get few takers for that bet Starboard…perhaps you should post it on the Greens’ website, they think everyone is capable of redemption…

In fairness to the Parole Board, an earlier commenter has noted – correctly – that if they let him out now they at least have some control over him, as opposed to none if he is kept until he must be released in accordance with the Sentencing Act.

If he does kill – as he surely intended to kill Hendrikkse – LWOP would be available to a sentencing Judge. What odds would you give that he would get such a sentence if, heaven forbid, he DOES kill?
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April 20, 2011 7:18pm
starboard

David , he will kill and unfortunately I will be able to say I told you so. I have been around long enough to know shit when I see it and Gillies is a turd. An unreformed turd.
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April 20, 2011 7:30pm
publicwatchdog

# RightNow (2,576) Says:
April 20th, 2011 at 2:01 pm

I2 – you know she’s created a self-image in her mind that she now can’t reconcile with reality. The facts presented regarding Winston not repaying the money don’t fit with her perception of reality and it is likely that her subconscious is blocking the uptake of those facts. Much like for an anorexic looking in the mirror and seeing a fat person.
I’m only surmising, but I suspect she’s inching closer to an actual psychotic break.

I’m sure she’ll be back later throwing aspersions at all and sundry while conveniently ignoring the facts, presenting a cheerful ‘I’m superior to all of you’ attitude and wishing us a nice day.
While I am having a nice day already I am a little concerned that Penny might be nearing an ‘episode’. She said she has ‘a man’ so hopefully he’s able to provide her with support if that eventuates.”
_________________________________________________________________________________________________

Oh how sweet (Not so B)Right Now!

So some of you ‘Kiwiblog kids’ are missing me already!

It’s ok – don’t fret – I’m back! 😉

FYI, (sigh) I am doing the homework that you intellectually lazy folk could have, and arguably should have been able to do for yourselves.

I have gone to ‘source’ (the Office of the Auditor-General ) – to find out from ‘the horses mouth’ (as it were), the answer to the question – did NZ First pay back the $158,000?

Because – unlike you arguably useless lot – I am actually quite a capable researcher, today I rang the appropriate person at the OAG and followed up by email:

“20 April 2011

As per our recent telephone discussion, can you please provide the link to the information which confirms that NZ First repaid the $158,000 Auditor-General asserted had been illegally spent during the (2005?) election.

What also would be VERY helpful would be the originating OAG ruling that NZ First had spent $158,000 illegally.

Thank you very much for your anticipated assistance on this matter.

Kind regards,

Penny Bright

Judicially recognised ‘Public Watchdog’ on Metrowater, water and Auckland regional governance matters.
‘World Water Warrior’ – NZ attendee at World Water Forum Kyoto 2003.

Auckland Mayoral candidate 2010.
Botany by-election candidate 2011

‘Anti-corruption campaigner’
Attendee: Australian Public Sector Anti-Corruption Conference (Brisbane) 2009
Attendee: Transparency International 14th Anti-Corruption Conference
(Bangkok) 2010

http://waterpressure.wordpress.com”

I know that you will be breathless (if not pantless) – awaiting this official OAG reply.

NO PROBLEM!

I will post it up on Kiwiblog as soon as I receive it.

(You will learn, if you haven’t already – that I am a woman whose word is not to be taken lightly 😉

PS: (Not so B)Right Now – I respectfully suggest that your ‘psychobabble’ may be some form of ‘projection’?

You know – that thing where you attribute to others ‘qualities’ (ok – I use that term lightly 😉 which you exhibit yourself?

“I’m only surmising, but I suspect she’s inching closer to an actual psychotic break.”

I do hope (Not so B)Right Now, that you too have ‘a man’ so hopefully he’s able to provide you with support if that eventuates.”

Or woman?

Whatever…………….

You poor sad little thing.

Perhaps your ‘psychobabble’ is triggered by simple jealously?

You just can’t handle the fact that this tradesperson, with no formal legal training, who has never even been to University is SO kicking your butt?

Surely not.

All the best dear.

(Perhaps you could contact ‘Immigrant’ and find out his source of spirulina (very good for stress), as he seems to have now calmed down considerably? 🙂

Penny Bright
http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
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April 20, 2011 8:32pm
publicwatchdog

# immigant (234) Says:
April 20th, 2011 at 2:39 pm

Carrying on from my Sunday’s knife fight with Penny.

Penny, you have described yourself as a self-funded watchdog. You have also state don several occasins that you do not receive taxpayer money.

Can you please confirm that you are not receiving money from WINZ?”

‘Knife fight’ immigant ?

err…. I fell more like I’ve been attacked with a plastic teaspoon……. (yawn)

Without wishing to trigger another of your OTT episodes, ‘immigant’ (how can I put this nicely and gently?)

Have you overdosed on your ‘thick pills’?

AGAIN (sigh) – as I have already stated for the umpteenth time – I DO NOT RECEIVE ANY BENEFIT – so, I (OBVIOUSLY) do not receive ANY money from WINZ.

Got it?

FINALLY?

Excellent.

You have a LOVELY evening 🙂

(Don’t forget the spirulina – it seems to be working REALLY well 😉

All the best!

Penny Bright
http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
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April 20, 2011 8:42pm
Rodders

Good evening Penny

Parliament in 2006 ignored the Auditor General and legalised the overspending retrospectively. The political parties, consequently had no legal requirement to repay the expenditure to parliamentary services. What some of us here have queried is whether NZ First fulfilled any ethical duty to repay the $158,000.
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April 20, 2011 8:43pm
Rodders

Here is a link to a report on the passing of the bill

http://m.nbr.co.nz/article/parliament-passes-law-validating-election-misspend
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April 20, 2011 8:48pm
KevinH

Inventory said:

You obviously missed the 3News poll on Sunday Kevin; the one that showed Winston at 2.8%, and on the way down.

You can never discount Winston when Labour is doing so poorly, Labour voters look at Winston when they feel their options are limited. The longer Goff stays in the better Winstons’ odds of building on percentages.
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April 20, 2011 9:03pm
reid

If he does kill – as he surely intended to kill Hendrikkse – LWOP would be available to a sentencing Judge.

David can you please clarify?

I know we have Preventive Detention but not sure if we have unlimited periods of release dates, but even if we do, in theory, common law prevents the imposition of a sentence out of the tariff range.

So even were the worst come to pass and he does kill, the Sentencing Judge is bound by that, are they not?

I hope I’m wrong, I’m not a lawyer and I know you are.

I know you weren’t making a legal argument but a political one, lest you think I’m doing anything but expanding my own ignorance.
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April 20, 2011 9:08pm
Inventory2

Very good Penny; but how about an admission that you were wrong when you claimed that NZ First had discharged its debt by way of a donation to Starship Hospital when you have been provided evidence that Starship refused to accept Winnie’s Filthy Lucre. You accused me of, among other things, being “intellectually lazy”, but it was YOU who has been proved to be wrong.

‘Fess up Penny; confession is good for the soul 🙂
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April 20, 2011 9:11pm
publicwatchdog

# Rodders (790) Says:
April 20th, 2011 at 8:43 pm

Good evening Penny

Parliament in 2006 ignored the Auditor General and legalised the overspending retrospectively. The political parties, consequently had no legal requirement to repay the expenditure to parliamentary services. What some of us here have queried is whether NZ First fulfilled any ethical duty to repay the $158,000.”

Well Rodders – as you can see – I have asked the OAG (arguably the most sensible party to whom one should address such a query’), and we shall see what they say.

You will note of course, the evidence which I provided that showed NZ First had attempted to pay $158,000 to Starship hospital 😉

Good evening yourself! 🙂

Penny Bright
http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
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April 20, 2011 9:16pm
big bruv

The mood is a little tense here today, might it be the prospect of a long weekend with the shops closed for two and a half days?

How will some of you cope???
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April 20, 2011 9:25pm
TripeWryter

Tristan:

I don’t know if you’re a parent. If you were, and you had a daughter in the situation I described, you might view it differently. Particularly your being sidelined.

If you are a parent, then perhaps your idea of parental responsibility differs from the family concerned, and from mine.

The point is … the people who organised this procedure disappeared over the hills when it all went wrong. The parents of a young woman aged under 18, and in their care, and their responsibility, had been left out of the loop, but were expected to suddenly be there when it all went wrong. It was dumped into their laps.

In other words, the people who organised and performed this procedure decided that their responsibility for this young woman’s condition ended when it was convenient for them.
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April 20, 2011 9:27pm
reid

Who does own the Fed then Adolf?
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April 20, 2011 9:27pm
Inventory2

Penny Bright said

You will note of course, the evidence which I provided that showed NZ First had attempted to pay $158,000 to Starship hospital

Bollocks Penny; this is what you actually said:

publicwatchdog (369) Says:
April 18th, 2011 at 6:22 pm

# Inventory2 (6,081) Says:
April 18th, 2011 at 4:46 pm

BTW; does anyone know whether Winston paid the $158k back that NZ First rorted at the 2005 election?
Someone may like to calculate what six years of interest on $158k would be…”

If you had bothered to do a simple ‘google’ search – as I have just done on this matter ‘Inventory2 ‘ – you could have found the answer for yourself.

YES – NZ FIRST HAS REPAID THE $158,000.

(Article which confirms this follows after my comment.)

So – what’s your problem ‘Inventory2 ‘?

a) Technical incompetence?
b) Intellectual laziness?
c) Attempted ‘spin-doctoring’?
d) All of the above?

I guess doing some FACT-FINDING wouldn’t have fitted with the on-going campaign to continue to try to discredit Winston Peters and NZ First?

To assist: (because I have a severe allergy to bullsh*t, and your basic lack of ‘fair play’ – here is what I found:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/174429

NZ First pays money back – to Starship
Last updated 00:00 01/01/2009

You didn’t say ANYTHING about an attempt to pay the money back; you were so emphatic about the fact that NZ First had paid the $158k back that you typed it in capitals!

Sorry Penny; you can’t spin your way out of this one; so who’s “intellectually lazy” and has “Technical incompetence” now. Y’see, I have an allergy to bullshit too, and reading your posts makes me itch …

Feel free to apologise any time you like; it’s your credibility that has been destroyed.
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April 20, 2011 9:31pm
TripeWryter

Simonway:

As I understand it the hospital did have to tell the parents. She had lost so much blood.
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April 20, 2011 9:32pm
publicwatchdog

# Inventory2 (6,108) Says:
April 20th, 2011 at 9:11 pm

Very good Penny; but how about an admission that you were wrong when you claimed that NZ First had discharged its debt by way of a donation to Starship Hospital when you have been provided evidence that Starship refused to accept Winnie’s Filthy Lucre. You accused me of, among other things, being “intellectually lazy”, but it was YOU who has been proved to be wrong.

‘Fess up Penny; confession is good for the soul 🙂

‘Inventory2’ – I have absolutely no intention of apologising for anything.

When I googled the question to find out if NZ First HAD repaid the $158,000 – the article about Starship is what came up.

I wasn’t aware that it hadn’t been accepted.

When I found out that the offer by NZ First to repay the $158,000 to Starship had NOT been accepted – I made subsequent efforts to confirm when and to whom it had been paid by contacting the OAG.

errr…. so for what exactly do you think I should apologise?

You ARE intellectually lazy, in my considered opinion.

Did YOU contact the OAG yourself to find out from source the answer to your question?

NO.

I am doing YOUR homework for you – you asked the question and I am providing the answer, (which you could have done yourself, had you got off your arguably lazy butt and researched the matter as I am doing), as opposed to expecting the answer to just ‘drop out of the sky’.

(Meant of course, in a caring, albeit firm ‘take no sh*t’ way 😉

When I DO find the answer to YOUR question – I expect a big bunch of flowers and a ‘heart-felt’ public acknowledgment of my work.

(Ok – I’ll pass on the flowers – haven’t got a vase big enough for the size of the bunch I know you will want to send for my (UNPAID – got that ‘immigant’? UNPAID) – efforts 😉

Have a LOVELY evening!

Kind regards,

Penny Bright
http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
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April 20, 2011 9:36pm
Nookin

Here is a clue for super-sleuth

http://www.oag.govt.nz/2006/election-spending/part4.htm#figure3
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April 20, 2011 9:36pm
publicwatchdog

Sorry Penny; you can’t spin your way out of this one; so who’s “intellectually lazy” and has “Technical incompetence” now. Y’see, I have an allergy to bullshit too, and reading your posts makes me itch …

Feel free to apologise any time you like; it’s your credibility that has been destroyed.”

Really ‘Inventory2’?

MY credibility has been destroyed when I am the one who has made the effort to find out from the OAG what DID happen?

Oh how I laughed!

hehe!

You are such a funny wee boy………..

😉

Penny Bright
http://waterpressure.wordpress.com

PS: You sure it is the reading of my posts that makes you itch?

It’s ok – I’m sure you’ll be able to get something from the chemist that can help you with that 😉

Or – you could just exercise a bit of self-control and ignore my posts if they SO upset you?

But you can’t – can you?

hehe!

You ARE such a funny wee boy……….. 😉
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April 20, 2011 9:46pm
Put it away

“I am the one who has made the effort to find out from the OAG what DID happen?”

only as a too-late attempt to get some dignity back after being busted for

a) Technical incompetence
b) Intellectual laziness
c) Attempted ‘spin-doctoring’
d) All of the above

For your first attempt.
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April 20, 2011 10:02pm
Nookin

Penny
You said that the money had been repaid. You damned IV2 for his sloppiness. You were wrong. Just about every poster here knew, without having to look it up, that Starship told Winnie to naff off as soon as it learned that its gains were ill-gotten. You must have been on a different planet at the time. You also know, full well, that when you had a totally misconceived notion that you were right and I was wrong, you demanded an apology. Why is it that different rules apply to you? Your maligning of IV2 was demonstraqbly wrong. Admit it.

Hope the link above helps. It may not necessarily account for the full $158,000 but then I am watching TV and talking to family at the same time.

Oh, one more thing. Winnie never accepted the auditor-general’s finding and refused to acknowledge liability to repay. He said he gave the money to various charities but refused to say which ones. The OAG probably won’t have any info because of Labour’s Theft Validation Act.
Good night
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April 20, 2011 10:04pm
Put it away

“Just about every poster here knew, without having to look it up”

Everyone remembers that story except plainly delusional winnie-worshippers who choose to forget.
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April 20, 2011 10:10pm
Nookin

PIA
Sorry – I tend to forget the deluded. I would be interested in knowing how much if any was paid to the Susan Couch Trust and how it was applied – esp if any went on Mr Henry’s legal fees. I would not begrudge him at all if he received any because, as I understand it, he took the case to the top without expectation of payment. Given that it was our money, I think I am entitled to know.
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April 20, 2011 10:17pm
James

Bruv : The mood is a little tense here today, might it be the prospect of a long weekend with the shops closed for two and a half days?

How will some of you cope???

Is it that time of year again when Bruv flip-flops to being a fascist re holiday shopping hours? 😉

This year I’m calling out all hypocrites who will make mealy mouthed utterances about our “honoured war dead” while shitting on their memories by endorsing state thuggery against people wanting to freely interact.

Stay away from ANZAC day busybody fascists…leave it to those of us who really understand rights and freedom.
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April 20, 2011 10:25pm
RightNow

I just saw on the news a farmer complaining that he should get the same internet speeds on the farm as people get in the cities.
He can get as fast as he wants for as much as it costs. If he wants everyone else to pay for it he’ll get what he fucking gets.
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April 20, 2011 10:38pm
Nookin

Off to bed. Thank you The Breakers for capping off a good day.
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April 20, 2011 10:44pm
James

Well said RightNow….! 😉
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April 20, 2011 10:50pm
Inventory2

Penny, Penny; wherefore art thou Penny?

I’ve seen a few asses handed on plates in the past, but last night was the ass-on-plate to end all ass-on-plates. I wonder if Penny has a replica NO sign at her home …
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April 21, 2011 6:54am
ciaron

Iv2 you clearly misinterpretated what was said, let it go before you lose any credibility you had ;p
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April 21, 2011 7:33am
Nookin

IV2
Penny had another rough day yesterday. The Supreme Court handed her mate Vince his bum on a plate yet again.
Expect another diatribe against the judiciary soon.
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April 21, 2011 8:28am

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