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April 16, 2011 8:00am by David Farrar

General Debate 16 April 2011

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General Debate

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Sofia

Penny Bright – “The Pike River Mine ‘Whistleblower’ – Dr Jacob Cohen, has made some VERY serious allegations, which in my considered opinion, need a full and thorough independent investigation.”

Good, Penny.
When you have made a full and thorough independent investigation, let us know if you find his accusations are true or not.
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April 16, 2011 11:06pm
publicwatchdog

# Sofia (100) Says:
April 16th, 2011 at 11:06 pm

Penny Bright – “The Pike River Mine ‘Whistleblower’ – Dr Jacob Cohen, has made some VERY serious allegations, which in my considered opinion, need a full and thorough independent investigation.”

Good, Penny.
When you have made a full and thorough independent investigation, let us know if you find his accusations are true or not.”

err…. Sofia – you may not have grasped this rather significant point – I don’t have the power of a Royal Commission or Court to force Pike River Mine to provide key EVIDENCE or directly question them?

Duh?

Look – I’m pretty easy-going, but your apparent wilful THICKNESS on this point Sofia is now becoming really irritating…………..

That’s why I am so concerned that this Royal Commission is just going to be a cover-up if Pike River Mine personnel are going to be able to weasel their way out of being properly questioned and providing key evidence that would ascertain whether or not they had been criminally negligent in meeting their lawful health and safety statutory duties.

Penny Bright
http;//waterpressure.wordpress.com
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April 16, 2011 11:49pm
TimG_Oz

Did this go unnoticed. A peace protester was brutally murdered while on a mission to stop the “occupation” in Gaza?

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/the_murder_of_vittorio_arrigoni/

Uh oh, he was murdered by HAMAS…

Remember the furious outcry when Rachel Corrie, an activist from the International Solidarity Movement , was accidently killed by an Israeli army bullodozer? I wonder if that international outcry from the Left will be repeated now that another ISM activist has been killed – but this time deliberately, and by Palestinians
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April 17, 2011 12:01am
reid

Did this go unnoticed.

Crikey Tim.

Someone on your side was murdered?

Well I never…
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April 17, 2011 12:29am
gander

Several commenters have asked the unfortunate Ms Bright to investigate the claims of one “Dr Jacob Cohen” that the Pike River Mine disaster was really a case of murder.

I’ve managed to download “Dr Cohen”‘s “book”. Executive summary: it’s Protocols of the Elders of Zion 2.0, with a NZ twist.

“Dr Jacob Cohen” is a nom-de-plume; not, in this instance, a gastroenterologist.

I’m no expert in the law of defamation but I suspect that some of the individuals mentioned in this book would have cause for action against “Dr Jacob Cohen” – if “Dr Cohen” could be identified.
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April 17, 2011 12:34am
TimG_Oz

Hey Reid.

Shocking, isn’t it. A Pro-Palestinian peace activist, murdered by Hamas.

Who is going to avenge this murder? Either way, I’m sure it won’t be long before somebody blames Israel for it.
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April 17, 2011 12:35am
Nookin

Reid
It is a long story. Ike Finau was one of the anti metro water brigade. He put up a whole lot of signs in his front yard. They were basically of a political and protest nature.

ACC decided that they should come down because they offended the by-law. Ike was prosecuted and ordered to remove the signs. He politely declined to do so and in December 2002 Council applied to have him committed for contempt. The court went along with the notion that its orders need to be obeyed and told Ike that he would be a guest of Her Majesty.

ACC then got cold feet and applied to have the committal order set aside. The Court was reluctant because it was apparent that it was being used as leverage in a political debate. It clearly signalled its displeasure but set aside the committal order.

In doing so it made the comment that it could not find any similar case which could provide guidance. It based its decision on its view that Ike was a pawn in a bigger war and was being used by others as a pawn. Penny’s admissions on KB clearly indicate that she was one of those others. Ike tried to read submissions to the court but made a hash of it. At a guess I suggest Penny may have written them.

All this came to a head on KB when she blasted the Courts for making up the law. She was of course referrring to her mate Vince who was told that because he steadfastly refused to comply with court orders relating to web-site content and costs that he had been ordered to pay, he would not be allowed to defend Stiassney’s defamation case. [ Interestingly enough, the judge who heard the Finau case also heard another case where another defendant was barred from defending defamation proceedings because she refused to comply with a court order — so it was not a unique occurrence].

I asked Penny why it was that she condemned the courts for “novel”decisions that went against her but lauded “novel’decisions that she liked. There was no doubt that the decision that we were talking about was the decision setting aside the contempt order. I posted that I could not find the full report and Penny posted it on her web-site. It was decided in 2003, as I said.

To avoid answering my question about her consistency on “novel” points of law, Penny said that the case was instrumental in the passing of legislation to the effect that by-laws must comply with BORA (Bill of Rights Act).
I have asked her how a 2003 decision could have influenced legislation introduced to Parliament in December 2001 and passed in 2002. She has not yet answered that. I suspect however that she is not referring to the 2003 decision but the earlier 2002 decision where the Judge said that the signs offended the by-laws and had to go.

I have not been able to view that state of the legislation when it was first introduced in December 2001. I would be very interested to track it down to see if the BORA requirement was there. If so Penny’s house of cards, flimsy as it is, collapses altogether. The Bill was to have been reported back to the house in May 2002. I can only find reference to it in December 2002. As Penny said, Nandor made the point that poor old Ike was facing jail-time for exercising his rights of freedom of expression, contrary to BORA.
Now, here is the rub. In Finau, Judge Joyce very carefully scrutinised BORA and other legislation. He found as a matter of law that council by-laws must be consistent with BORA or would otherwise be invalid. The judge’s ruling said exactly what the subsequent legislation said.

His findings followed a number of authorities (Moonen and the Wellington swastika case) where the effect of BORA on legislation was considered. Penny is claiming credit for herself and her little crew for her victory in the Finau case and the fact that it instigated a change in the law. She gives the judge no credit at all for the fact that he had already said that by-laws must be consistent with BORA. The law was not changed following Finau. The legislation reflects Finau. ‘She did not have a victory in Finau. In fact, it was a loss all the way, even to the extent that the judge was suggesting that Ike was hung up to dry by others who should have been in the dock instead. As far as I am aware, the Judge’s finding that the by-law did not offend BORA was never appealed and remains unaffected by the change in legislation. Penny will no doubt corrrect me if I am wrong. In the meantime, I stand by my position that her claim for the credits needs to be taken with a grain of salt.
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April 17, 2011 12:37am
reid

A Pro-Palestinian peace activist, murdered by Hamas.

Why would Hamas do this, Tim? Why?

Nookin, thanks.
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April 17, 2011 12:48am
TimG_Oz

Why?

Probably the same reason they rocket school buses, blow up teenagers in Pizza parlours, and kill their own people Reid. They are evil.
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April 17, 2011 1:06am
reid

they rocket school buses

So Hamas rocket buses of Palestinian children?

Is that what you’re saying Tim?

Sorry, I’m confused. You don’t normally say things this mental and I’m trying to understand…
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April 17, 2011 1:15am
Put it away

Yet another case of the Judean Peoples Front fighting the real enemy – the Peoples Front of Judea.
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April 17, 2011 7:33am
Pete George

Shunda barunda (1,755) Says:
April 16th, 2011 at 6:45 pm

Another large earthquake in Christchurch.

This is the fifth, or possibly 6th consecutive month that the largest daily release of seismic energy for the whole month has occurred at, or very close to perigee.
In other words, we have a trend.

Shunda, the perigree doesn’t only affect Christchurch does it? And has there been a perigree over the last week? Check out the last 7 days worldwide:
http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/recenteqsww/Quakes/quakes_all.php

And even if you look just at NZ quakes over the last month, the 5+ quakes were on:
25 March
7 April
11 April
16 April

What sort of pattern do you see there?
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April 17, 2011 7:50am
starboard

None. What sort did you see?
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April 17, 2011 8:44am
Nookin

If I can take a leaf out of Ken Ring’s “Predictions for Dummies” there seems to be a growing tendancy for quakes to occur on days ending in”ÿ”.
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April 17, 2011 8:55am
Thrash Cardiom

Did this go unnoticed. A peace protester was brutally murdered while on a mission to stop the “occupation” in Gaza?

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/the_murder_of_vittorio_arrigoni/

Uh oh, he was murdered by HAMAS…

Odd. I can’t find any reference to him being murdered by HAMAS. I can only find references to an Al Qaeda linked Jihadist group who kidnapped him in order to put pressure on HAMAS who are holding their leader.

He was abducted by an Al Qaeda-linked Jihadist group, who were attempting to put pressure on Hamas, which runs the enclave, to release its leader Hesham al-Sa’eedni.

In the Arabic text that accompanied the YouTube video, his kidnappers described Italy as ‘the infidel state’ and said that Mr Arrigoni had ‘entered our land only to spread corruption.’

Even though they demanded the release of their al-Sa’eedni, the group – who call themselves Monotheism and Holy War – gave Hamas no time to hand him over.

Instead, they executed their hostage, who helped Gaza fishermen deal with Israel’s tight maritime blockade, and left his body for the security forces to find.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1377182/Vittorio-Arrigoni-Kidnapped-peace-activist-pictured-YouTube-dead-Gaza.html#ixzz1JipGsyaR

Hardly fair to blame HAMAS for this crime.
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April 17, 2011 8:58am
Put it away

The Japanese quakes don’t seem to want to co-operate either… the big one was March 11th ( perigee was March 19th ) and the big aftershock was April 7th ( perigee April 17th )
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April 17, 2011 9:02am
Luc Hansen

A Pro-Palestinian peace activist, murdered by Hamas.

Why would Hamas do this, Tim? Why?

reid, ignoring the fact that it was crime directed AT Hamas, not committed by Hamas, the reason is quite simple: nearly 100 years of oppression, dispossession, and brutal occupation at the hands of Europeans.

They are evil.

It’s a bit difficult to take the high ground with grandiose statements like this, Tim, especially when Israel’s crimes are much, much grander in scope and in sheer numbers of victims. There are a few evil people in every conflict but the vast majority on both sides are living their own particular narrative.

Every credible poll shows that vast majority simply want peace and a normal life, with all their rights recognised. It’s quite simple, really.

Hardly fair to blame HAMAS for this crime.

As Malcolm Fraser, born to a wealthy, colonial era farming dynasty famously said, “Life’s not meant to be fair.” The irony escaped him, I think.

Funny thing is, Hamas now is essentially just another collaborator of occupiers, glorified prison guards.

Regardless, history is on the side of the Palestinians, and Palestine will be as eternal as its most famous son.
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April 17, 2011 9:31am
MyNameIsJack

KevinH (204) Says:

April 16th, 2011 at 9:53 pm
Thankfully a capitalist world delivers state of the art communications devices that allow us to communicate freely. Without the technology we would have to blog on mountain tops where we would send each other smoke signals

Which capitalist firm(s) invented the interweb?

Which capitalist firm(s) launced the first geostationary sattelites?

And which capitalist nation was the first to prove the possibility of space flight, first with a sattelite, first with a dog, first with a man, first with a woman?
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April 17, 2011 9:34am
Put it away

“Funny thing is, Hamas now is essentially just another collaborator of occupiers, glorified prison guards. ”

Not murdering enough jews for your liking anymore, Luc?
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April 17, 2011 9:39am
Rodders

Luc said “The irony escaped him, I think.”

Malcolm Fraser, as it happens is not that unsympathetic to your point of view, Luc
http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/israels-actions-foster-extremism-20090115-7i5h.html
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April 17, 2011 9:41am
KiwiGreg

“In the last 50 years or so it has caused us to become the biggest wasters of resources the planet has ever had to put up with. It incentivises people to manufacture products with shortened life spans to make trivial and useless crap using depleting resources.”

Utter horseshit.

Take one simple example. Motor cars today last longer, need less maintenance and use fewer resources to make.

You might be wasting resources, but I’m consuming them. And enjoying it.
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April 17, 2011 10:07am
publicwatchdog

Ok Nookin – let us ‘seek truth from facts’ – shall we?

Unfortunately, (for you 😉 – I have EXTENSIVE files on this ‘Ike Finau signs issue’ (that you will not find anywhere else).

“I have not been able to view that state of the legislation when it was first introduced in December 2001. I would be very interested to track it down to see if the BORA requirement was there. If so Penny’s house of cards, flimsy as it is, collapses altogether. The Bill was to have been reported back to the house in May 2002. I can only find reference to it in December 2002. As Penny said, Nandor made the point that poor old Ike was facing jail-time for exercising his rights of freedom of expression, contrary to BORA.”

Following is a letter that Nandor Tanczos sent to then Attorney-General Margaret Wilson, on 10 December 2002:

It explains the ‘state of the bylaw’ at that time:

“Auckland City Council by-law 27.5.1 (enclosed). This by-law states that residents are entitled to erect a sign for the purpose of promoting a lawful product or service available on the site, but not for any other purpose.

It seems extraordinary that the use of signs on a person’s own property for the expression of political opinion is forbidden, while advertising is allowed. It is hard to imagine what reasoning can justify such a biased limitation on the right to freedom of expression, as expressed in BORA. The aim of the by-law is purported to be protection of amenity values, yet discriminates on the basis of the purpose of the sign regardless of appearance or offensiveness of contents.”

The full letter follows below:

“Hon Margaret Wilson
Attorney General
L7 Bowen House
Parliament

10 December 2002

Dear Margaret

First of all, congratulations on today’s launch of the Nation Plan of Action on Human Rights. I believe that the strategic approach to human rights envisaged in the Human Rights Amendment Act 2001 will prove to be significant in the development of a more informed human rights culture in Aotearoa.

It is therefore timely to be writing to you today on a current and, I believe, significant human rights issue. I have become aware of the potential for local authorities to act in breach of the Bill of Rights 1990 (BORA) without adequate checks to ensure compliance.

I am in particular concerned about Auckland City Council by-law 27.5.1 (enclosed). This by-law states that residents are entitled to erect a sign for the purpose of promoting a lawful product or service available on the site, but not for any other purpose.

It seems extraordinary that the use of signs on a person’s own property for the expression of political opinion is forbidden, while advertising is allowed. It is hard to imagine what reasoning can justify such a biased limitation on the right to freedom of expression, as expressed in BORA. The aim of the by-law is purported to be protection of amenity values, yet discriminates on the basis of the purpose of the sign regardless of appearance or offensiveness of contents.

This is of more than academic interest. Auckland resident Ike Finau faces a court hearing this Thursday to determine whether he has complied with a court ruling to remove from his property signs expressing his political opinion. Regardless of ones view of his opinion, it seems unjust that he would be entitled to retain a sign if he was making money, but not if making political comment.

Without seeking an opinion on his specific case, I would like your response on the following:

1. What procedures are in place to ensure that new council by-laws are not in breach of BORA, as intended by the Human Rights Amendment Act 2001?

2. What procedures are in place to ensure already existing by-laws are compliant with BORA?

3. Have you received any opinion on whether Auckland City Council by-law 27.5.1 complies with BORA and if not will you seek one?

I look forward to the opportunity to discuss this matter further with you.

Yours sincerely

Nandor Tanczos

cc. Minister for Local Government”
_________________________________________________________________________________________________

You have started this ‘discussion’ Nookin, and you will find that my ‘house’ is built on granite, as it were………… 🙂

Penny Bright
http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
____________________________________________________________________________________________
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April 17, 2011 10:09am
Luc Hansen

especially when Israel’s crimes are much, much grander in scope and in sheer numbers of victims.

Comprehension not your strong suit, Put it Away?

I’d Put You In for demerits but, really, you aren’t worth the effort.
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April 17, 2011 10:24am
Chuck Bird

“I’d Put You In for demerits but, really, you aren’t worth the effort. ”

Luc, I think it would very unfortunate if demerits were given for a genuinely held beleive or opinion.

BTW, I basically pro Israeli.
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April 17, 2011 10:37am
wat dabney

MNIJ,

One of the main differences between a centrally planned economy and a Capitalist one is not so much the roll-call of basic scientific discoveries but their exploitation to deliver a higher standard of living.

Hence, whilst you can certainly cherry-pick a list of state-sponsored discoveries and inventions, the real question is ‘so what?’

Basically you should not be so impressed by the self-evident fact that any state can forcibly requisition workers’ earnings to indulge in prestige projects.
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April 17, 2011 10:43am
Luc Hansen

Chuck, so am I.

But I think accusing me of wanting to see people killed is hardly a genuine belief, Chuck, when the main thrust of all my posts on this matter is that all involved deserve equal human rights.

Palestinians are denied theirs to a far, far greater extent than the reverse.

Check it out.
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April 17, 2011 10:45am
publicwatchdog

# Chuck Bird (1,557) Says:
April 17th, 2011 at 10:37 am

“I’d Put You In for demerits but, really, you aren’t worth the effort. ”

Luc, I think it would very unfortunate if demerits were given for a genuinely held beleive or opinion.”

On THAT point ‘Chuck Bird’ – I totally agree with you.

I do understand that ‘freedom of expression’ is not without boundaries, and comments which are ‘defamatory’ or ‘offensive’ are supposed to be ‘out of bounds’ – but obviously there are ‘grey areas’ in defining what is ‘defamatory’ and what is ‘offensive’?

I’ve personally been subject to some pretty offensive and arguably defamatory stuff here on Kiwiblog – but I have a hide six feet thick, and know from experience, that ad hominum attacks, in my opinion, are the sign of both weak intellect and character.

Just because someone puts forward a point of view which is opposite to your own, doesn’t make them thick, stupid or uninformed.

Trying to get someone censored, or their freedom of speech restricted, just because you don’t agree with their viewpoint is pretty sad, in my view.

I give credit to David for his pro-active support of ‘freedom of expression’ on Kiwiblog.

Cheers!

Penny Bright
http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
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April 17, 2011 10:53am
Chuck Bird

Luc, my point is about using demerits to moderate viewpoints as it appears you suggest.

There are good reason for demerits like abusive posts for example. Using them for
preventing a point of view would be most unfortunate. I hope KB does not go that way.
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April 17, 2011 10:58am
publicwatchdog

# Luc Hansen (2,711) Says:
April 17th, 2011 at 10:45 am

Chuck, so am I.

But I think accusing me of wanting to see people killed is hardly a genuine belief, Chuck, when the main thrust of all my posts on this matter is that all involved deserve equal human rights.

Palestinians are denied theirs to a far, far greater extent than the reverse.

Check it out.”

Luc – I agree with you on supporting the basic human rights of Palestinians.

After over 60 years – there is a ‘State of Israel’ – but where is the ‘State of Palestine’?

In my view, and experience, when others put forward a view which is OTT, they actually discredit themselves?

🙂

Keep going!

All the best.

Penny Bright
http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
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April 17, 2011 11:05am
Nookin

Happy to start with facts, Penny.

You claim that the Finau signs case brought about legislation changing the law You say that as a result of that legislation by-laws must comply with BORA.

Judge Roderick Joyce QC said in February 2002 that by-laws will be invalid if that are inconsistent with BORA, No change in the law was necessary. N0-one appealed the Judge’s finding that the by-law was not invalid. You have not demonstrated how the 2002 LGA changed the court’s earlier decision. The fact is that it did not make any change.

What relevance does Nandor’s letter have to LGA 2002? The letter is dated December 2002. It does not mention any connection between Finau and any amendment to the law. It talks only about Human Rights Act. Tell me, if Nandor was your advocate in Parliament, did you give him the judgment to the effect that the By-law did not offend BORA? Why was he asking whether there was any opinion on the by-laws compliance when there was a court judgment directly on point?

If the LGA 2002 was such a landmark Act why does Nandor not even mention it in his letter? He thought that the requirement stemmed from HRA. I mean, LGA was passed in the week of that letter or thereabouts and he didn’t think it was worth mentioning? The reason is quite clear. LGA 2002 simply stated the law as everyone thought it to be — as pronounced by Judge Joyce.
You started this discussion, Penny — not me. You claimed that a case in which you were involved brought about remedial legislation. It didn’t — demonstrably so. And the fact that the letter that you produce to prove your “fact” doesn’t even mention the LGA 2002 supports this view.

As I said in my previous post, if the LGA 2002 Act contained the BORA provision when introduced then, given that Finau (1) was not decided till the following year, your argument of influence is empty.

Until you can show a direct link between LGA 2002 and Finau and that LGA changed the law I will remain unconvinced.

As seems to be your style, you are changing the goal posts. This debate started when you attacked the court for making it up as it went along. Your proposition seemed to me to be somewhat hypocritical. You avoided answering my question about the consistancy of your approach by saying that the Finau case led to a change in the law. As a result of my responding post, you posted the relevant decision on your web-site. When I pointed out the chronological inconsistency in your statement as well as the fact that the legislation did not appear to change the law, you focussed not on the LGA but on whether the by-law was in fact conisistant with BORA (not mentioning the court decision that it was not).

Your last post proves nothing.
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April 17, 2011 11:10am
wat dabney

“ignoring the fact that it was crime directed AT Hamas, not committed by Hamas, the reason is quite simple: nearly 100 years of oppression, dispossession, and brutal occupation at the hands of Europeans.”

Ah, such jaw-droppingly profound ignorance of the subject coupled with the supreme self-confidence of the egotistical left. Gotta love the internet.
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April 17, 2011 11:13am
Chuck Bird

Penny, thank you for you comment. I must point out though that you may not have intended to be offensive but you were to some people. 29 people died here in a tragedy in New Zealand not the Middle East. For everyone of those people there would be many relations and close friends. To suggest there people were murdered I think would be quite offensive to next of kin.

You posted very verbose posts but failed to answer a question asked repeatedly. Do you beleive the 29 miners were murdered? If the answer is no then were raise the issue?

I rate the idea that the minors were murdered on par with the flakey idea that man did not land on the moon. If you come out with crazy conspiracy ideas are your posts will be judged accordingly.
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April 17, 2011 11:14am
publicwatchdog

“Until you can show a direct link between LGA 2002 and Finau and that LGA changed the law I will remain unconvinced.”

Ok Nookin – you win.

I have now put the time and effort into putting the information that you require up on my blog, so that you and others, if you wish, can check the FACTS and EVIDENCE which support what I am saying.

I look forward to your full and abject apology.

(It’s ok – I won’t hold my breath waiting – but that’s what I would expect from a person of good character. 🙂

Penny Bright
http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
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April 17, 2011 12:00pm
publicwatchdog

“29 people died here in a tragedy in New Zealand not the Middle East. For everyone of those people there would be many relations and close friends. To suggest there people were murdered I think would be quite offensive to next of kin.”

Really ‘Chuck Bird’?

Don’t you agree that a full, thorough and independent inquiry, checking the FACTS and EVIDENCE is the proper way to deal with these ‘Murder at Pike River Mine?’ ALLEGATIONS?

That the next of kin would like to know the TRUTH about what really caused the explosion which killed their loved ones?

Was the Pike Rive Mine tragedy the result of ‘criminal negligence’?

How come the health and safety systems at Pike River Mine didn’t apparently give those 29 miners any warning ?

That’s what REALLY gets to me, as someone who has taught basic ‘Health and Safety in Employment’ as a former welding tutor.

First the workplace risks need to be identified; assessed, then, where possible, eliminated, minimised or isolated.

Have YOU actually taken the time to carefully read the ALLEGATIONS in ‘Murder at Pike River Mine’ for yourself, before stating:

“I rate the idea that the minors were murdered on par with the flakey idea that man did not land on the moon. If you come out with crazy conspiracy ideas are your posts will be judged accordingly.”

In order to assist, I have cut and pasted the ‘timeline’ on my blog, because I understand that others (who, like yourself have been so quick to dismiss out of hand something that they apparently have yet to read), have had difficulty in downloading information from the link provided.

Will be interested in your more considered opinion, after you have READ THIS INFORMATION FOR YOURSELF?

You are of course, entitled to your opinion, no matter how ill-informed, but I for one take a LOT more notice of well-reasoned and considered opinion – which arguably yours on THIS issue is NOT.

Cheers! 🙂

Penny Bright
http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
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April 17, 2011 12:18pm
Chuck Bird

Penny, can you read as well as type? You have been asked numerous times if you believe that the 29 miners were murdered. YES on NO is all that is required. I am talking murder because that is what you called it.

It is possible that an inquiry may find the tragedy was the result of criminal negligence but not murder. Call me a bigot if you like but I am not interested in debating, whether man landed on the moon, whether the US government has secrets at Area 51 or if the Twin Towers was caused by the Americans.

I put your theory that the miners were murdered to soften the public to open cast mining as equally ludicrous.

You cannot answer a simple yes or no question and you expect me to read the lengthy nonsense you put on your blog.
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April 17, 2011 3:30pm
thedavincimode

Its all true Chuck. It was Colonel Mustard down the mine-shaft with the cigarette lighter.

Colonel Mustard is a well known former arms dealer and occassional operative for the Russian and Chinese mafia. More recently he has been involved in several clandestine ops for the money brokers in the wake of the global credit blip.
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April 17, 2011 3:40pm
publicwatchdog

Chuck Bird (1,560) Says:
April 17th, 2011 at 3:30 pm

Penny, can you read as well as type?”

Chuck – I respectfully ask YOU the same question.

You are exhibiting ‘WILFUL BLINDNESS/THICKNESS’ on this topic, if you are dismissing ALLEGATIONS in ‘Murder at Pike River Mine?’ out of hand without reading them.

Quite sad really, for someone who supposedly agrees with ‘freedom of expression’?

Keep going…………

Isn’t it is your viewpoint which is proving to be ‘ludicrous’?

‘…you expect me to read the lengthy nonsense’

errr…. if you HAVEN’T EVEN READ THE MATERIAL – HOW CAN YOU DESCRIBE IT AS ‘LENGTHY NONSENSE’?

Goodness me – you are coming across as a silly six year old.

‘…I am not interested in debating, whether man landed on the moon, whether the US government has secrets at Area 51 or if the Twin Towers was caused by the Americans’.

So why make, arguably stupid, uninformed comments?

If you are not interested in debating, and don’t have an informed and considered comment – why bother?

Think I’ve wasted enough of my valuable (albeit unpaid) time on this point.

Until you have actually bothered to read and consider that which you are so vehemently criticising, I think I’ll just leave it there…..

Bye for now 🙂

Penny Bright
http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
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April 17, 2011 3:45pm
Manolo

if you HAVEN’T EVEN READ THE MATERIAL – HOW CAN YOU DESCRIBE IT AS ‘LENGTHY NONSENSE’?

You don’t need to read the Koran in full to realise is an utter piece of fiction and vile nonsense, written by and for imbeciles.
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April 17, 2011 3:52pm
Chuck Bird

Penny, were the miners murdered in your opinion – YES or NO?
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April 17, 2011 3:59pm
Put it away

“Jacob Cohen”‘s nonsense is indeed lengthy but you can read as much as you need to on pages 1 and 2:

The City [of London Corporation] controls the global financial world today and is a separate, giant,Protestant, religious, Masonic, Fabian Socialist, banking kingdom inside the old Roman wallsof ancient London. The City governs itself and is not responsible to the British Parliament.

At present Queen Elizabeth II heads the City. Some people controversially believe St.John prophesied she would do so (Revelation 18:7) and subsequently he also prophesied that she finally would be judged, removed from power and made desolate in one hour accordingto Revelation 18:10,17,19. Time will tell.

Yep, the City is fabian socialist and the Queen is mentioned in Revelations. 9/10 on the nutbar scale already and it’s only page two. I think I can safely skip the rest.
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April 17, 2011 4:13pm
publicwatchdog

Interesting that the son of one of the dead miners ‘murdered?’ at Pike River Mine is also recommending that people try and read ‘Murder at Pike River Mine?’ for themselves and is equally concerned about a ‘cover-up’.

So folks!

Would you be prepared to look into the eyes of this dead miner’s son, and make the same comments to him that you are making to me – when, on this issue we are effectively saying the same thing?

If not – why not?

Penny Bright
http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
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April 18, 2011 5:02pm
RightNow

Because you’re posting in a two day old GD thread.
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April 18, 2011 5:14pm
Malthius

Hi Penny, nils bastardum carborundum! Dr Jacob Cohen must be a pseudonym, surely, or a Jewdonym. Maybe it was that nice young Plougshares Peacenik who went and lay down on the train tracks in Palmy. So tell me, do the shills really think you will divulge his identity to satisfy their ‘curiosity’? Look what happens to historians, activists and greenies who get too close to the bone – they have a habit of ending up dead. Or maybe aging financiers who try to clear their name…

The people of NZ are by and large sheeple, and the worst are the educated sheeple who actually think that they know what is going on – they never have and likely never will, this side of heaven. Classic case in point – the media hatchet job on the CTV patsy by Martyn van Beynen, newshound and media attack, I mean watch dog. Now the majority Canterbury people think it was the patsy wot dunnit. Just like they spent 14yrs arguing over whether the father or son dunnit when they could not recognise a well planned and executed domestic false flag operation if they fell over one, but never-the-less, they still argued and pondered and read and raged and debated while the country is being systematically stolen from right under our, sorry, their noses.

I am sorry Penny, but it is a well established scientific fact – most people are really not that bright, but you are BRIGHT BY NAME, BRIGHT BY NATURE! By the way, just for a google giggle, look up who “Erebus” was, and then look at the front of Ka 949 (Tangiwai) and look up who Ka was. People who do not understand how sacrifice works, simply do not understand much about anything, and those who do not “get it” that NZ is to be sacrificed to bring about New Zion are living in a fool’s paradise of denial and delusion and deception. But God will have the last say – and when the Spirit of Parihaka visits this land it will be bit too late to say sorry, as SORROW shall blanket this land from one end to the other, sorrow such as has never been experienced by the Pakeha, and we will find out what it is like to be dirt poor and marginalised in your own country.

Key may have opened the door to the sheepfold, but it is the Shearer who will fleece the sheeple.
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October 1, 2012 7:29pm
Reid

They can’t really win these rebel groups, because they don’t have the support of even most of the anti-Assad forces. As I have mentioned, the main peaceful opposition group does not really support the strategy of the Free Syrian Army, does not support the Syrian National Council and in the key cities of Aleppo and Damascus, which is where more than half of the Syrian population live. Most of the population is behind the government, supports the government. A couple of weeks ago, a Free Syrian Army Officer admitted it himself, saying that ‘the problem for us here in Aleppo is that 70 per cent of the population supports Assad,’ and it has always been that way. So they can’t win with that lack of popular support.
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October 1, 2012 7:39pm
Malthius

By the way Penny, how did the yanks get the camera on the moon to pan up as the landing module left? Pretty tricky for ’69. Remember that the number of German Rocket Scientists who were spirited away to Amerika was only exceeded by the number of Social Engineering Scientists. Fluoride anyone?
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October 1, 2012 7:42pm
Malthius

Hey Folks, if you have not realised it, the one common denominator of the countries targeted for regime change since You-go-slave-yeah has been that they all had or have independent central banks. This is not about freedom, it is about controlling the money supply of the world. Oil, religion, regional politics are simply the smoke and mirrors – the real deal is the control of the world’s money – it is ALWAYS THE MONEY! Add to that the increasing globalisation of Govt and the call for unilateral disarmament with the (US & British contrived and controlled) UN having the deterrent capability and the role of Global Policeman. Meanwhile in CHCH, we see the beginnings of the ecumenical merging of the Church and “other faiths” in a cardboard cathedral, complete with cardboard cut-out Christ?
Prior to the Labour caucus of December 13, Lianne Dalziell told me that she was going up to Welly to help choose their new leader. I told her that it would simply be a matter of ratifying the choice of David Shearer. She told me that I did not understand the selection processes of her party – I respectfully suggested that she was the one who was ignorant and that the decision had been made not just months, but years before, as with Fed appointee John Key.
Now the guns are being turned on JK and his largely obese and obnoxious cabinet as the nation is being inexorably steered to the Left – again. So, if a second tier Labour MP has no idea what is really going on, what do you think all you rationalists and righteous rubes out there actually know? Do you know how to spell SUCKER?
“The people perish for a lack of knowledge” – God.
“Give me control of a nation’s money and I care not who makes her laws” – Rothschild.
“I have no power of my own, but I have a lot of influence” – Prince “Agenda 21” Charles.
“Beware the influence of the Pharisees” – Jesus.
“For the love of money is the root of every evil” – Paul.
If one controls the money, then one controls everything. Its all about the money honey. The rest is all just just Political Panto put on for the Punters. Like you really have a choice already! WAKE UP NZ!
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October 2, 2012 8:29am

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