General Debate 3 March 2011

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Manolo

Excellent analysis by Lindsay Mitchell, who should immediately replace the hopeless Paula Bennett as minister. She concludes:

In the final analysis WFF was a vote-buyer. With NZ’s current somewhat dire situation National has to persuade people of the right course of action. What is needed is not necessarily what they want. People do understand this. Key has to convince them to vote using their heads and hearts, and not through their pockets.

The programme Labour introduced in 2005 should go.

(The likes of Lianne Dalziel will protest that cuts to spending are the last thing Christchurch needs. So make a temporary exception for Christchurch. The precedent is already set with special spending packages and, last year, the DPB reforms were deferred for Christchurch beneficiaries.)

http://lindsaymitchell.blogspot.com/2011/03/wff-changes-at-top-end-wont-cut-it.html
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March 3, 2011 9:08am
Murray

Jane clifton reduced John Campbell to him component parts and was unimpressed with the result in this mornings Dom.
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March 3, 2011 9:15am
Manolo

Today’s DomPost editorial:

All Kiwis must help foot the quake bill

Middle-class welfare could be cut without causing undue hardship. Using the Working for Families scheme to top up the incomes of households earning more than $100,000 a year is an absurdity and bearing the interest costs of former students who have entered the workforce is an indulgence that will inevitably have to be stopped.

The question is whether this Government has the skill, and courage, to explain to voters why it is unfair to keep loading future generations with debt for expenditure from which they will not benefit.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/opinion/4724305/Editorial-All-Kiwis-must-help-foot-the-quake-bill
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March 3, 2011 9:15am
Bobbie black

Watching highlights of the England/Ireland cricket game.

Quite a match.

Not sure who wins but I am hoping Ireland, but sadly don’t think they will get there.
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March 3, 2011 9:20am
Manolo

C’mon Bobbie, Ireland did win.
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March 3, 2011 9:21am
Inventory2

I won’t spoil it for you Bobbie. Just don’t go to Keeping Stock if you DON’T want to know the result!
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March 3, 2011 9:23am
Yvette

With regards to some earthquake relief financing coming from cuts to Working for Families – was that not the scheme where television campaign ads publicising it showed parents texting their daughter, sitting in the same room, that tea [dinner] was on the table?
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March 3, 2011 9:36am
Chuck Bird

Willie Jackson will be speaking at the ACT AGM. I am an ACT member but not a spokesman. However, I think I can say with confidence that as Willie is a guest he will be treat with respect regardless of his speech. This is in contrast how Ken Ring was treated of for that matter John Key when he was a guest on a marae on Waitangi Day.
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March 3, 2011 9:37am
Manolo

Yes, Ivette. The very same one.
Labelled as “communism by stealth” by our own Prime Minister John Key, when he was leader of the Opposition, of course.
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March 3, 2011 9:38am
mikeysmokes

Well done Ireland. Thats a Guinness liquid lunch for this Irishmen. Fuck off England
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March 3, 2011 9:47am
Bobbie black

Yeah, just finished watching the streaming.

Sensational!

Makes up for India only getting a draw off the POMS.
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March 3, 2011 9:48am
XChequer

Bugger me, but Danyl over at Dim-Post has just “killed” Chris Trotter!!

http://dimpost.wordpress.com/2011/03/03/chris-trotter-dislikes-milk-and-apples/
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March 3, 2011 10:08am
nasska

Manolo @ 9.38am

One doesn’t have to read many of your comments to gain the impression that WFF wasn’t your favourite piece of legislation. In that you are not alone.

When Labour used WFF as an election bribe in 2005 it was a luxury that the country could probably afford although many of us could argue that the money could have been used better. Obviously times have changed & not only is it unaffordable but dangerous to the nations financial viability. When Michael Cullen said “we’ve spent it all” what he really meant was that they had set time bombs to go off later & sabotage National’s efforts.

That said, if you were in Key’s or English’s shoes how would you go about dismantling WFF? Taking something away from someone even if they didn’t have claim to it in the first place is to invite retaliation. This retaliation would naturally take the form of hostile ticks in the ballot box due to be filled in a very few months. Every vote National loses puts it further at the mercy of prospective coalition partners & their patronage doesn’t come cheap.

I know how you think on this issue….what I would like to know is what you would do in the Government’s situation.
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March 3, 2011 10:14am
barry

David – youre off the hook……….

The Pope has announced that the Jews did NOT kill Jesus Christ……………………..

Ive scratched out your name that was in my little black book – so now I wont be casting a spell upon you come easter time !

ps: The Pope didnt say who did do the deed though – someones gotta be blamed for this awful crime now that the Jews have been exonerated. Maybe it was a bunch of muslims……
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March 3, 2011 10:22am
nasska

barry @ 10.22

I’d go along with your suspicions but the religion of peace wasn’t fabricated until about 700 years later. Back to the drawing board.
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March 3, 2011 10:37am
Murray

barry the method of crucifiction and the provence being under Roman rule and the execution being carried on by the resident legion (raised in Syria) are some fairly good pointers.

But they guy was just some local furniture maker called Josh son of Joe who wasn’t very good and turned to politics… so whats the big deal?
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March 3, 2011 10:44am
Murray

Ooo sorry about that nasska… shouldn’t have mention the Syrian raised legion should I. My bad.
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March 3, 2011 10:45am
KevinH

Although the thinking behind WFF had some merit in that it was of assistance to low income families it has since become hijacked by the middle classes more interested in maintaining lifestyles. WFF has reached policy maturity and time for revision has arrived.
Under the circumstances, tax cuts have relieved pressure at the top end and bottom end, therefore the need for WFF isn’t there anymore.
Bill English would be best advised to dump it in this years budget and move towards a needs based, income tested assistance package administered through MOD.
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March 3, 2011 11:04am
emmess

Even the Sue Bradfords in Ukraine aren’t too shabby

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-12618784
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March 3, 2011 11:11am
Murray

Compared to our Sue Bradford thats hardly an achievment emmess.
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March 3, 2011 11:15am
Lance

@emmess
Maybe we could have an exchange
NZ’s loony left women for theirs, if their message is idiotic at least the eye candy will compensate.
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March 3, 2011 11:17am
barry

Nasska – @10.37

….’I’d go along with your suspicions but the religion of peace wasn’t fabricated until about 700 years later. Back to the drawing board’…….

Thats the perfect reason to blame the muslims………. they cant deny it!, they werent there to deny it, and how do we know that Allah wasnt there – I mean if you were as powerful as he was supposed to be, then you high tail it out there for a few hundred years if you thought blame might be directed at you.
Yea – no doubt about it, it was Allah……..
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March 3, 2011 11:37am
nasska

barry @ 11.37am

You’ve convinced me! Guilty as charged. Next case.
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March 3, 2011 11:43am
backster

Well at least the Ukraine protestors have a good sense of dress. I think I’ll enter the contest.
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March 3, 2011 11:43am
Murray

Well they’ve claimed to be the orginal possessers of Australia nasska so they seem to have some issues with how long they’ve been around for a start.
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March 3, 2011 11:49am
double d

Nasska @ 10.14
Great question directed at Manolo.
WFF is a joke and it should never have happened …..
but politically speaking, you dump it and hello coalition …..
i have a brother in law staying with me as a result of CHC EQ and we were chatting about this last night. he has been a beneficiary, but he thinks its great although he doesnt need the extra money. his immediate comment was what about the poor …. it will take a huge amount of persuasion that WFF is merely a tax cut in michael cullen drag. agree with another comment posted today that it is not about pulling the rug from those in need, just targetting those people better.
i could start on why do we reward families for having more children regardless of their financial ability to do so … but lets save for another day.
just re-read my post and apologise for the punctuation crimes (reminiscent of he-who-shall-not-be-named)
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March 3, 2011 11:50am
redeye

I’m not sure how old this store is (fairly recent) but it’ll sure give the Muslim haters on kiwiblog a warm and fuzzy feeling:-)
http://aca.ninemsn.com.au/Video.aspx?videoid=af53d2ac-f507-4e8d-983a-a5a259bbe6fc
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March 3, 2011 12:45pm
Yvette

“ps: The Pope didnt say who did do the deed though – someones gotta be blamed for this awful crime now that the Jews have been exonerated. Maybe it was a bunch of muslims…”

It is as well documented as any other part of this matter, that it was the Romans who actually killed Christ, their power base being in the city of Rome where the Pope now lives, and whose name is incorporated in that by which his denomination is known.

Cuiusvis hominis est errare, nullius nisi insipientis in errore perseverare.
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March 3, 2011 12:47pm
Viking2

Insurance troubleshooter Andrew Hooker tells businesses not to accept ‘depopulation’ excuse by insurers at face value
Posted in Insurance March 3, 2011 – 11:07am, Andrew Hooker
Share

Earthquake affected businesses need to be wary of insurance opt-out exuses.

Andrew HookerBy Andrew Hooker*

With any major event, we learn new terms. Who had heard of Y2K before 1999 or liquefaction before the tragic earthquakes in Christchurch? Well we have another term coming out of the earthquakes – “depopulation”.

Ever helpful in the wake of such tragedy, insurance assessors around Christchurch are warning people making insurance claims for business interruption/loss of profits that they are not covered for “depopulation”.

More at;http://www.interest.co.nz/insurance/insurance-troubleshooter-andrew-hooker-tells-businesses-not-accept-depopulation-excuse-insurers-face
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March 3, 2011 12:49pm
kowtow

mickey smokes

So you are celebrating an Irish team who beat England playing an English game by drinking a stout brewed by an English HQed company, listed on the London Stock Exchange,and using an Anglo Saxon expletive in a message written in………English.

Slainte.:)
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March 3, 2011 1:30pm
Inventory2

@ nasska – excellent question, and one that goes right to the heart of the dilemma facing Key and National. WFF was cunning, in an insidious manner. I totally oppose Michael Cullen’s politics, but one has to have a grudging admiration for his political cunning.

WFF, once rolled out, is almost impossible to unravel. To do so would spell certain electoral defeat. Cullen knew that. WFF and interest-free student loans were nothing but bribes. But they benefit so many people that they are like a booby-trap to a government which opposes them. Cullen knew that the tide was going out on Labour in 2008, and he emptied the cupboard to make sure that National had no room to move when they took over the Treasury benches.

In the meantime, I for one am looking forward to Manolo’s response. It’s very easy to criticise the current government for its inaction, but the reality is that if National took the axe to WFF, they would be a one-term government, and we would be back to Labour at the first opportunity. It’s another thing again to suggest something better.
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March 3, 2011 1:34pm
AlphaKiwi

TED Talk about how ugly some parts of America have become.

http://www.ted.com/talks/james_howard_kunstler_dissects_suburbia.html
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March 3, 2011 1:41pm
bearhunter

Kowtow: You’d prefer it if he’d said “Comhgairdeas Eirinn, Sin e lon leacht don Eireannach seo. Ar aghaidh libh, Shasana.”?

Slainte leat fein.

(Dammit, can’t do sine fadas on this imperialist English keyboard…)
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March 3, 2011 2:52pm
stephen

Would dismantling WFF have to have an argument about effective marginal tax rates at its heart? Telling people that they’ve all been turned into slack-jawed welfare recipients would hardly sit well.

The cash spent on the programme would probably have to be ‘spent’ in roughly the same area via…something. Low-end tax cuts would be nowhere near targetted enough, assuming that needs to be done….
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March 3, 2011 2:57pm
Offshore_Kiwi

“WFF, once rolled out, is almost impossible to unravel”

Sorry, but that’s bullshit. WFF for most people is nothing more than IRD giving them back their own money (after taking a commission on the way through, of course). Tax cuts at the lower levels (or a tax-free threshold) would more than adequately compensate.
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March 3, 2011 2:59pm
stephen

Tax cuts at the lower levels would mean everybody gets the cut – necessarily meaning the people originally on it now get less. How much less – NO IDEA. Still means a ‘sell’ is needed.
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March 3, 2011 3:08pm
rfdunedin

BEWARE OF ‘CLAIM EXPERTS’

While I was out this morning, my received a call from a man named ‘Jack’ claiming to be from”Reclaim Experts” and stating that we were owed $3,647 from overcharged bank fees. They had a number of personal details (which could be obtained from any telephone directory or on-line etc.

‘Alarm bells’ started ringing!

An address at Victoria Street, Auckland was given along with the telephone number 09 889 8772 to call a ‘Ben Morgan’, described as the Finance Manager of this ‘company who would verify the details’.

So my wife phoned Ben. Like ‘Jack’, ‘Ben Morgan’ had a foreign accent, easily identified as Indian. ‘The alarm bells’ got louder!

‘Ben’ advised that the refund could only be obtained by paying $290 to the account of a ‘Neeta Kapoor’ Bali NGR, Delhi. India. He helpfully advised that this payment could be made by Western Union from our nearest post shop. Even more ‘helpfully’ he told told us where that was! As if we did not know!

When ‘Ben’ was questioned as to why the remittance would go to an account in India, he asked my wife if she had heard of UNICEF. When she said “Yes”, Ben told her she was “one of the more intelligent persons he had spoken too!’ Presumably on the theory that “flattery gets one anywhere”!!

Anyway, according to Ben the “fee” was going to go to UNICEF for their relief work, “with the agreement of the New Zealand Government”. Again: “Yeah right”. The ‘alarm bells’ rang louder! Much louder!

My wife was assured – amongst other things that once the payment was made by Western Union, a ‘delivery boy’ with the name of ‘Roger’ would turn up at our door within 45 minutes and hand us a cheque for $3,647 drawn on the National Bank . Yeah right!

Shortly after, I arrived home. my wife told me what had happened. By this time, the burglar alarm’ was also going full blast. I no sooner said that I thought ‘Ben Morgan’ would probably phone back when ‘presto’, he obliged! His purpose, “to see how things had gone with Western Union”.

I let my wife lead him on for a few minutes while I listened in on a second phone. Soon ‘smoke was commg out of my ears’, so the smoke alarms also started wailing!

Having heard enough, I intervened and said if ‘Roger’ turned up with the cheque for $3,647, then I would happily pay the fee of $290. “Oh no, that is not possible, it does not work that way”. Of course not ‘Ben’. Do you think we are silly? He hung up!

Somehow I doubt that Ben will be phoning again! And if 09 889 8772 is still taking calls I wonder how long they continue to do so!

Oh yes, it is a SCAM. Juts ‘Google’ ‘Reclaim Experts’ and read what comes up. Now I must go and turn all the alarms off!

Against the weighty things going on, this may seem minor. Problem is these guys are seldom ‘caught’.
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March 3, 2011 3:09pm
Rex Widerstrom

Slow news day in NZ it seems. Well here’s something that might get you going…

Over here in Western Australia the Coroner is so tired of presiding over inquests of people killed in police pursuits, they’re talking about banning high speed chases altogether.

[Deputy Coroner] Ms Vicker criticised the internal police investigation, which looked only at the police actions and not at why Mr Arnold was inclined to flee…

“If the issues are not properly explored then someone is going to say ‘there will be no more pursuits because police are not open about the risk assessment’.”

Release the hounds 😀
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March 3, 2011 3:10pm
Offshore_Kiwi

Perhaps quite surprisingly Rex, I agree with you. The police shouldn’t chase ’em … they should shoot ’em. The fools are going to die anyway, might as well do it at the start, before they have a chance to endanger any innocent bystanders.

Seeing your opening bid and raising you a dollar 🙂
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March 3, 2011 3:14pm
Viking2

Lawyers are being told to show tolerance and empathy for colleagues caught up in the quake.

The Law Society says some lawyers are pressuring Christchurch colleagues to complete commercial or property settlements. President Jonathan Temm has emailed lawyers, urging them to be realistic and responsible given many Christchurch lawyers have lost their offices and therefore access to files.

We must be talking Aucklanders here. Noone else would be so ignorant. Would they?
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March 3, 2011 3:16pm
Rex Widerstrom

Would you be quite so keen, Offshore_Kiwi, if you were the poor bastard in the story whose son it was got smeared up a tree, all for a pocketful of drugs, lack of a licence and a stolen motorbike – not offences against a person, and/or which suggest he was such a danger he needed to be stopped no matter what the cost?

I’ve had stuff pinched. Of particular annoyance was the times when thousands of dollars of damage was done to my car to steal an item worth a few hundred, like the recent genius who took a set of tin snips to my door for what looked like 15 minutes, till he realised he could use them to break the quarterlight window.

But do I want his family to have to grieve in order to get my GPS back? No.
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March 3, 2011 3:22pm
Rex Widerstrom

rfdunedin:

OTOH, the Australians aren’t liable to be targeted by these conmen since they’ve organised themselves into a class action against the banks [disclaimer: I’m a signatory].

There’ll soon be some handy precedents against the banks in Australian law – they’re starting with ANZ – so surely this is fertile ground for an enterprising NZ law firm (and a financial backer to underwrite the fee) to back NZ customers?
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March 3, 2011 3:27pm
Viking2

And their won’t be any cash left in the Govt. coffers for the other scammers aka astthe Labour Party to get their hands on.

2.30pm
The Budget in May will reflect the cost of the Christchurch earthquake, Prime Minister John Key has warned.
“It just might have some deep streaks of red through it, unfortunately,” he told reporters today.
“It’s going to be a very important Budget because it’s about signalling the long but necessary process of rebuilding Christchurch.”
Mr Key said the earthquake was expected to bite $5 billion out of tax revenue over four years.
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March 3, 2011 3:29pm
kowtow

bearhunter

I woulldn’t have cared what he said as long as he had been sporting about it!

I was able to give up Irish when Fine Gael changed the Leaving Cert policy in around ’74. Since then I’ve been a staunch Blueshirt.:)

Oh and I’ll have a Smithwicks over a Guinness any day.
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March 3, 2011 3:34pm
bearhunter

Not many would own up to being a Blueshirt, fair play to ye.
I’m ambivalent about Smithwicks, but Macardles was a lovely drop in the large bottle…
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March 3, 2011 3:36pm
Offshore_Kiwi

Righto Rex. First of all, please take $2.50 and go buy yourself a sense of humour. You opened it up in the first place, so don’t get all precious and uppity about it.

Second, try this one for “it’s just property crime”:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/christchurch-earthquake/news/article.cfm?c_id=1502981&objectid=10709227

Jayden Andrews-Howland is dead because some scumbag stole his bike.

Also, don’t fucking start with “it’s just a stolen motorbike, and drugs, and no licence”. First, he had no licence therefore one assumes he had not met the required standard for being able to control a bike. He’s a danger and a public menace. Second, he had a pocketful of drugs. No mention of the quanity that was outside his pocket and inside his bloodstream. Thirdly, a stolen motorbike, if not correctly and appropriately piloted, is a lethal weapon. I’d rather one stoned thief be dead than many innocent bystanders.

The message is clear to all but the utterly moronic, run from the police and you will die.
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March 3, 2011 3:36pm
Manolo

Nasska and IV2 asked how to replace WFF. Quite simple: axe it.

I can hear the argument about one-term government and pissing off voters, but what is the other option? The longer you have this benefit running, the more entrenched it gets, and the more difficult is to replace. What better example than the DPB?

Now, facing a financial crisis, much aggravated by the Cristchurch earthquake, is time to take stock and appeal to those affected explaining, selling to them, the reasons for its axing. Please, give some credit to the voters’ intellect (you will not be not talking to the impoverished masses in this case).

For once, National shoul appeal to its principles and do what is better for the country, not a sector of the population who was bribed by socialist Labour. For once.
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March 3, 2011 3:53pm
backster

Rex…In addition to your GPS he had broken into 30 other cars, the drugs were for resale to others probably resulting in at least one drug death and several hospital emissions. It was his 10th conviction for disqualified driving, he owed $30,000 in unpaid fines and was wanted in 3 states….Let him be his father abused him when he was a child.
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March 3, 2011 3:53pm
Rex Widerstrom

Offshore_Kiwi:

Sorry if I sounded uppity. I have sons… they’re not perfect, though they’ve never quite managed the trifecta of stupidity displayed by the boy in the story I referenced… but I can empathise with his father. And he left two small children without a father, too.

I don’t think you can claim theft = death of the victim based on one single freak event in the midst of an earthquake. Whoever stole Jayden’s bike deserves to be punished, undoubtedly. But to place the blame for his tragic death on the thief is akin to blaming a police officer who prosecutes a person for an offence which results in the loss of their licence if that person is then involved in a bus crash.

No licence, at least in WA, more often than not means “unpaid fines”, including for parking. I never lost my licence in NZ and I don’t have a single demerit on my Australian one. But I’ve been faced with loss of licence for not paying a couple of parking tickets, so I guess if I were herded into a tree they’d have portrayed me as a reckless “unlicenced driver” too.

And while I agree that any stolen vehicle, not driven carefully, is a danger… you’ll find most vehicle thieves (and I’ve talked to quite a few) will creep along at 1 km/h less than the limit, obeying all the rules and trying not to be noticed – unless and until they’re chased.
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March 3, 2011 4:06pm
double d

Ummmm Manolo so we dump WFF and then National get voted out …..
and the coalition bring it back …..
how do we win here?
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March 3, 2011 4:07pm
nasska

Rex @ 3.27

I’ll bite. Chasing halfwits such as you detailed is dangerous but let’s be clear that the danger is shared amongst the alleged offender, the police but most of all the public. What happens to some POS who gets fonged & steals a bike he can’t ride bothers me not. Ditto for some cowboy cop with an adrenalin rush. What does worry me is that if the said halfwit hadn’t attacked the tree it could have been the body of someone’s friend or relative who didn’t deserve to die.

Paramount is the fact that by restricting chases we reward the behaviour of the arseholes. As far as they are concerned the faster you go the more chance the cops will back off.

You’d have to be a few feathers short of a full duck to pay much heed to the wafflings of coroners.
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March 3, 2011 4:16pm
nasska

Manolo @ 3.53pm

I take on board that the people affected by cutting or scrapping WFF are the least likely to vote National anyway. Your comments re voters’ intelligence may be a little optimistic as past elections have confirmed that for many people self interest determines who they support. You would have to concede that that same self interest served Labour well in 2005.

For all our sakes I hope that your crystal ball is giving a better reading than mine.
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March 3, 2011 4:42pm
Yvette

“Former Greens MP Sue Bradford has confirmed she is still in discussions about forming a new left-wing political party, but will not be drawn on whether independent Maori MP Hone Harawira is involved […]
She would not comment on whether she was speaking directly with Mr Harawira, who last month quit the Maori Party when it became clear he was going to be expelled.
He told NewstalkZB today that he was hitting the road to sound out support for a new party.
He said he was keen to “build a movement” and he hoped to announce a decision at the start of next month.”

How will Harawira sound out support for a new party if he doesn’t outline who will lead it or what it will advocate or stand for, or is this new party going to be conducted in the same fuck-wit way his last connection was?

“Rangatiratanga is the expression of the attributes of a rangatira (weaving the people together) including humility, leadership by example, generosity, altruism, diplomacy and knowledge of benefit to the people.
Kotahitanga is the principle of unity of purpose and direction. It is demonstrated through the achievement of harmony and moving as one. All are encouraged to make a contribution, to have their say and then together a consensus is reached.

But then maybe you should ignore this.
In “Charlie Sheen v Muammar Gaddafi: whose line is it anyway? Can you distinguish between them?”
I just scored 1 out of a possible 10
Merde
It said “Not a keen follower of rabid ravers then?”
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March 3, 2011 5:15pm
Rex Widerstrom

nasska:

Paramount is the fact that by restricting chases we reward the behaviour of the arseholes. As far as they are concerned the faster you go the more chance the cops will back off.

That’s true of the reckless, dangerous idiots who steal a vehicle and speed in it to start with. In that situation the police are damned if they do and damned if they don’t because the offender is already endangering the innocent when they come across him. But not so the car thief who’s driving carefully, actively trying to avoid detection. Or the guys whose number plate is run and comes back with an expired WoF or whatever… if giving chase causes high speed, then stop in the hope the offender will slow down straight away and risk to third parties is minimised.

By all means when you arrest him later, possibly for some other crime even, have a stiff penalty for evading the police. But let’s not needlessly create victims – and I include the offender’s family as secondary victims; that clown’s children aren’t responsible for his actions – just to recover property or impose a traffic fine.

You’d have to be a few feathers short of a full duck to pay much heed to the wafflings of coroners.

Well call me quackers. Coroners are society’s primary means of examining deaths and seeing if they were preventable and whether blame attaches. Most are very experienced. What do you suggest as an alternative?
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March 3, 2011 5:19pm
bereal

redeye @ 12.45
thank you for drawing attention to that matter.
In the greater scheme of things all this waffle about police car chase or not car chase is dross.
you have put your finger on a far more important matter.
i love my muslim friends, as long as they stay in their muslim countries.
i dont need them comming here and changing my country to suit them.
However, what you have drawn attention to is a portent of what we have comming, right
here in New Zealand.
40,000 plus of them already imported into our country. WHY ?
This woman has 7 sprogs, no doubt in her image. Thats so far. Thats a problem for our grand children.
i just hope more people watch that video and give it some thought.
onya
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March 3, 2011 6:01pm
nasska

Rex @ 5.19pm

Although I doubt it is the intent of your argument it means that your careful car thief only has to nudge the accelerator to vastly improve his chances of getting away scot-free since it is highly doubtful that the cops know his identity. Additionally although some cars are stolen to order or for parts many car conversions, at least in NZ, are for the sole purpose of a free fast joyride. These wankers will be driving dangerously chase or no chase. There are not many times that I would cheer on the police but in these cases I see them as aiding the Darwin theory.

I plead guilty to an element of hyperbole in my description of coroners. Some do a great job but the current no hoper presiding over our district has completely lost touch with reality. He is totally drunk with the power of his office & making recommendations that defy human understanding.
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March 3, 2011 6:05pm
adze

The Gang-Patch law has just been ruled in the High Court to be unlawful.

Laws says he will be taking it to the Court of Appeal.
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March 3, 2011 6:34pm
jaba

get out your gang patches, no longer illegal
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March 3, 2011 6:36pm
starboard

“smeared up a tree, all for a pocketful of drugs, lack of a licence and a stolen motorbike”

…drugs , no licence , stolen motorbike…Rex , he deserved to die. He was only going to become a drain on the system. No sympathy , maybe if the parents had done a better job the shit would still be alive.

Good evening.
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March 3, 2011 6:39pm
bereal

As far as the running from the police when ordered to stop, we have two chioices.
If they run, let them go. or
Anybody who runs when ordered to stop is delt with harshly.

Which option might have the chance of reducing the number of runners. Duh.
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March 3, 2011 6:41pm
Rex Widerstrom

bereal posits:

As far as the running from the police when ordered to stop, we have two chioices.
If they run, let them go. or
Anybody who runs when ordered to stop is delt with harshly.

Errr, what about “all of the above”?

We don’t endanger innocent third parties by chasing drivers who aren’t driving dangerously to begin with. I agree with nasska that some “wankers will be driving dangerously chase or no chase” and they need to be stopped… though to protect other road users I’d prefer to see greater use made of helicopters, road spikes and other methods that don’t involve chases.

Then introduce penalties for evading pursuit that are so tough, after the first few idiots had been made an example of, the rest will think twice.

That minimises the risk to innocent road users, which should surely be the aim, over and above “catching crims”?
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March 3, 2011 7:09pm
Rex Widerstrom

adze:

Laws says he will be taking it to the Court of Appeal.

One of a dozen councillors? What business is it of his? It’s a Council bylaw, it’d be up to the Council to decide. Lhaws really needs to realise that it’s only in his dreams that he’s Emperor.
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March 3, 2011 7:11pm
paws

im scared to use a cap or rant(what a rant) i would have david lick johnnies dunny paper,is that a rant david would lick and hone would doe doo, have i ranted ,sigh im up to 60 demerits in 3 pastes opps posts, i think david thinks i picked on him at school, i went to college in Marton, im a tradesman fallen on sorry times and david wants A listers to paste opps post whatever on his world famous blog,
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March 3, 2011 7:34pm
nasska

Rex @ 7.09pm

There is a third possibility & I’d be interested in your dissection of it. If instead of calling off a chase because of danger to all concerned what would happen if all runners were pursued until they crashed, ran out of fuel or simply gave up. There would be mayhem & carnage initially (innocent public included) but may be not on the scale imagined. The rationale for this argument lies in the theory that certainty of detection rather than severity of punishment reduces crime.

If the ante was upped to the point where the choice was basically stop or die how would the average offender react?
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March 3, 2011 7:36pm
Manolo

Take it easy paws. Too much piss is bad for your liver. 😀
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March 3, 2011 7:41pm
starboard

..and the brain…
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March 3, 2011 8:01pm
Viking2

Luv this new website. A must read for Canterbury gossip.

http://warmandloving.blogspot.com/
Refugees turn their backs on Christchurch in its hour of need
Citizens of earthquake ravaged Christchurch after taking a few deep breaths, two ‘happy pills’ the quack prescribed, try digesting this, whilst at the same time trying not to breathe in too much dust from the liquefaction:

Refugees have left Christchurch in their droves.

Around 230 people from places like Ethiopia, Somalia and Afghanistan who were living in Christchurch when the quake struck arrived at Whenuapai Air Force base yesterday.

The organisation Refugees as Survivors is helping them out.

Chief executive Gary Poole says some of their houses are quake-damaged.

He says they’ve left in large numbers and aren’t intending to return to Christchurch in the immediate future.

I would like to recommend to the sycophantic Mr Poole a worthy destination for his bunch of ingrates would be a place where say earthquakes are less prevalent like say Addis Ababa, Mogadishu or even Kandahar (if you ignore the suicide bombings & abject poverty the medieval serfdom of Afghanistan is very nice this time of year)

What I am suggesting is rather than the Air Force stopping at Whenuapai after leaving Christchurch they do a quick tickey-tour of Africa and The Middle East.

If anyone owed New Zealanders a helping-hand in their time of need, needed to show a modicum of appreciation at the benevolence of the country in its hour of need – it’s a refugee.

But rather than getting a spade out, supporting the community that accepted them, supporting each other in their own ethnic groups – they bailed en-masse like rats up a drain pipe.

What’s more resources that could have been spent to support the re-build were diverted to assist these tax-negative yellow-bellies who believe they and the do-gooders at Refugees as Survivors are the only ones in Christchurch traumatised and left homeless.

One hopes that Immigration Department takes my suggestion and sends everyone of the sods home.

PS: These two were found with suitcases on the way to Christchurch Airport
Posted by Warm & Lovin’ at 13:45 3 comments
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Labels: Christchurch Earthquake, Refugees
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March 3, 2011 8:20pm
Rex Widerstrom

nasska:

The theory of certainty of detection acting as the ultimate deterrent is true only of premeditated crime. If every white collar fraudster knew he’d be caught then the incidence of fraud would drop, certainly.

However there are many crimes – crimes of passion, crimes committed by the insane, crimes committed by the drug- or alcohol-affected, and crimes committed by stupid dickheads who think they’re invincible – for which it doesn’t work.

It’s like, say, drink driving. Every pisshead who gets behind the wheel knows it kills and has killed other people they just think they’re so damn smart it won’t ever happen to them. Till it does.

Same goes for stealing a car and driving it fast, alas.
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March 3, 2011 8:27pm
Inventory2

@ Offshore Kiwi (2.59pm) – the comment about WFF being nigh-on impossible to roll back was not referring to any technical or legislative issues. The plain, simple fact is that Labour made so many people beneficiaries under WFF that the POLITICAL consequence of dismantling the policy is an arse-kicking from the electorate.
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March 3, 2011 8:30pm
Offshore_Kiwi

INV the Key administration, for want of any opposition, is the most popular peacetime administration in New Zealand’s history. It should be investing some of that capital to drag New Zealand back from the brink of economic destruction. That it steadfastly refuses to do so (Key’s announcement today on interest-free student loans being just another example of his lack of vision, or balls) is to the shame of the National Party. National have had some pretty fucking awful leaders in the past but I’d suggest that none come close to Key in terms of spinelessness. Even Bolger, who stopped Saint Ruth’s reform programs, had more guts than Key.
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March 3, 2011 8:47pm
big bruv

We (the tax payer) face a huge repair bill in Chch, we are going to be asked to dip into our pockets and most of us will do so willingly.

So what are our MP’s doing to help?, what are they doing to lessen the cost to the public, the people who pay their wages?

Well this is what Clare Curren, Cam Calder and a representative from the Clerks office are doing….they are going on a jaunt to Europe!

http://blog.labour.org.nz/index.php/2011/03/03/in-london/#comments

The arrogance of our MP’s is fucking breathtaking, I defy anybody to tell me why these three have to go at OUR expense, it is outrageous.
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March 3, 2011 8:58pm
Offshore_Kiwi

Bruv, one can only really, really hope they don’t find themselves on one of those exploding Qant-Arse planes!
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March 3, 2011 9:05pm
RightNow

I wonder if they have ACC in Karachi: http://weaselzippers.us/2011/03/02/jihadi-work-accident-islamist-bomber-accidentally-vaporizes-himself-carrying-explosives/
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March 3, 2011 9:12pm
paws

Hone opps david farrar like a moth to a bright light i return with a nice tract, FOLKS David farrar gave me 20 DEMERITES for caps shoulting), opps ,now heres a nice tract thats the man cannot demerit
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5jdQyyaqYM
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March 3, 2011 9:15pm
big bruv

Offshore

For the life of me I cannot work out why the public accept shit like this from our MP’s?

The speakers tour is another annual joke, yet year after year we shell out for the bloody thing.

It is time we told the pricks that we have had enough.
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March 3, 2011 9:17pm
Offshore_Kiwi

Funny, that’s exactly what I thought happened in 2008. I thought kiwis voted en masse for a change. Turns out I was wrong. They wanted change, but just a change of personnel. They just wanted to exchange the condescending sneer and bad teeth of a communist lesbian for the smiling and waving of a spineless appeaser.
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March 3, 2011 9:29pm
bereal

Rex @ 7.09
I thought you had more about you. Think about it. Jeez.
There is no,” what about all of the above ”

K.I.S.S. Police say ,’Stop’
You either stop or you dont stop. You make the call.
There is no P.C. third way.

Its amazingly simple. Enforce the law, backup the police, or else what ?

Where have i got that wrong ?
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March 3, 2011 9:32pm
Manolo

It is time we told the pricks that we have had enough.

Didn’t we do that at the last election? And, what did we get?
It seems to me we just changed the government’s hue of red, from crimson to pink, and in the process got a PM who relishes the limelight to smile and wave at the populace.
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March 4, 2011 7:44am
Manolo

The Wall Street Journal talks about the end of the U.S. dollar’s as the world currency.

Why the Dollar’s Reign Is Near an End

The greenback, in other words, is not just America’s currency. It’s the world’s. But as astonishing as that is, what may be even more astonishing is this: The dollar’s reign is coming to an end.

I believe that over the next 10 years, we’re going to see a profound shift toward a world in which several currencies compete for dominance.

The impact of such a shift will be equally profound, with implications for, among other things, the stability of exchange rates, the stability of financial markets, the ease with which the U.S. will be able to finance budget and current-account deficits, and whether the Fed can follow a policy of benign neglect toward the dollar.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703313304576132170181013248.html?mod=WSJ_hp_mostpop_read
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March 4, 2011 7:49am
Manolo

Meanwhile Labour-lite members fight for selection.

Nats’ infighting slows candidate selection in safe Rodney seat

The selection of National’s candidate for the safe Rodney seat has been delayed amid bitter infighting, with frontrunners Brent Robinson and Scott Simpson said to be tarnished by claims of attempts to slant the selection process in their favour.

Delegates were to have met this week to select the candidate to replace Lockwood Smith from a shortlist of five – Mark Mitchell, John Kirikiri, Christopher Penk, Mr Robinson and Mr Simpson.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10710011
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March 4, 2011 8:16am
Manolo

Don’t we all feel sorry for this criminal? The sooner he goes, the better.

Ill health dogs Tamihere after release

Paroled double murderer David Tamihere has had serious medical problems since being released from jail, the Parole Board says. Tamihere was released from prison in November after 20 years behind bars for the 1989 murders of Swedish tourists Urban Hoglin and Heidi Paakkonen.

Mr Hoglin’s body was found by pig hunters in Coromandel bush two years after he went missing, but Ms Paakkonen’s body was never found
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March 4, 2011 8:26am

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