General Debate 24 March 2011

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Grant Michael McKenna

There are 3 things in life that are certain –

Death,

Taxes,

and that if you criticise someone for political gain, one of your side will be caught doing the same.
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March 24, 2011 8:04am
budgieboy

Mr Hughes will obviously be a topic of discussion today.

One thing I have noticed have been comments that if he was gay or bisexual that he had ‘hidden’ it.

Does anyone else see it that way?

I always assumed he was gay and never thought it was an issue.

Was I wrong?
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March 24, 2011 8:05am
KiwiGreg

I’d always just assumed he was a smug self-satisfied git. Never thought about his sexuality.
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March 24, 2011 8:07am
Murray

My question on the matter is why is the Dompost screaming MP Sex Claim! I thought we didn’t have any details like that. Did I miss something?
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March 24, 2011 8:09am
Murray

Don’t forget ginga Greg. Either way hes labours red headed step-child now.
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March 24, 2011 8:10am
Ryan Sproull

I’m glad the Herald front page had a detailed diagram showing which bars the group went to.

Otherwise I would have had to read another seven paragraphs of “actually we have almost nothing to report”.
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March 24, 2011 8:11am
Murray

Lets be honest Ryan they need pictures because most of their readers can’t.
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March 24, 2011 8:12am
Barnsley Bill

The media are salivating, they all know what the accusation is and are just waiting for a colleague to jump and put it out there. Then they will all pile in. Make no mistake, this is a massive crisis for Labour. When details of the nature of the complaint is revealed they are going to need buckets and mops in the Labour caucus room to clean up the blood.

Hughes is toast, will probably take King with him and the regional mp trying to smear the complainant will be lucky to survive this too.
As for Goff, he is safe until after the election. The only thing keeping him in the game is the absence of anybody stupid enough to want his job.
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March 24, 2011 8:19am
david

Yes, Hughes is most definitely toast. Stuff has changed their description from “18 year old man” to “teenage boy” overnight so you have to assume that the media verdict is in.

The MSM isw also continuing tio be extremely generous to Phil wrt to the delay in making any statement and the absence of any action on his part. It is “understandable” and “believable” and “appropriate” for the NZLP to be taking the sort of stance that they have on the issue. Feckin hypocrits all of them.
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March 24, 2011 8:27am
KiwiGreg

“The MSM isw also continuing tio be extremely generous to Phil wrt to the delay in making any statement ” and even more so with the lying about what he knew
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March 24, 2011 8:29am
smttc

Can someone please tell me why it is anybody’s business that a lifer is allowed out of prison for medical treatment. I have the impression at the moment that NZ is nothing more than a country full of fucking whingers.
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March 24, 2011 8:41am
virtualmark

First rule of politics.

Never get caught with live boys or dead girls.

Hat tip: Edwin Edwards
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March 24, 2011 8:43am
david

Virtual – didn’t do Senator Kennedy any long term harm after Chappaquiddick (spp?)
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March 24, 2011 8:49am
Christopher Thomson

david, don’t even start on that whole dirty, sordid little world of nepotism and political favors.
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March 24, 2011 8:58am
virtualmark

David … yep, pity Darren Hughes isn’t Darren Hughes Kennedy then huh.
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March 24, 2011 8:58am
thedavincimode

Meanwhile, far away in another galaxy devoid of reality, impartiality and insight, a sad, petulant and geriatric old git who has long outlived his uselessness as a morning co-host on what ought to be a flagship for independent radio journalism, interviews Bob Parker regarding gummint plans for the decision-making surrounding the re-construction of Christchurch and whether and if so how the council would be involved.

After Parker made it perfectly clear that council ought to be involved and that all the feed-back to date from the PM down indicated that this would be the case, the SOG continues on his beatup trail. Parker resists and points out that no decision has been made by cabinet (happens Monday) and furthermore that it is entirely appropriate that gummint has first dibs on the respective roles of gummint and council given that taxpayer money is at stake. Undaunted by this gentle pat on the shoulder, the tragic and pointless old git continues in his efforts to manufacture a story out of absolutely nothing. One sensed a degree of frustration on the part of the normally even-tempered Parker, eventually resulting in his comment that until cabinet had met and made a decision, any discussion was just pure speculation.

In the wake of that riposte and clearly distressed at his inability to drag sensation out of an empty hat, the sad old git promptly terminated the dialogue.
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March 24, 2011 9:06am
mattyroo

The fucking luddites are at it again….

THE controversial documentary Gasland is being taken as gospel by environmental activists trying to stop all oil and gas exploration in Taranaki.

A recently formed group called Climate Justice Taranaki attracted fewer than 50 people to its public meeting in Okato, south of New Plymouth, last night in its fight against exploration activities in New Zealand’s only proven producing petroleum region.

Spokesperson Urs Signer said the group was planning more, unspecified, protest action on April 20, the first anniversary of the Gulf of Mexico Deepwater Horizon rig explosion and subsequent oil spill.

He and partner Emily Bailey said there had been “a massive number” of onshore and offshore exploration leases awarded recently by the New Zealand government.

The companies involved in these licences were allowed to explore for oil and gas “at the risk of destroying waahi tapu [Maori sacred sites] and nature reserves, pollute oceans, soils and groundwater and produce new fossil fuel to add to the global problem of climate change”.

“We are supposed to be turning away from fossil fuels, not increasing production,” the group said.

They called on people to stop Taranaki oil and gas exploration through landowners denying explorers access to their land, opposing all seismic surveying and drilling, and challenging resource consents granted by the Taranaki Regional Council.

“Somehow get together and harass the council,” Signer said.

He and Bailey live at the small coastal settlement of Parihaka, about 55 kilometres southwest of New Plymouth, which became a renowned symbol of passive Maori protest against European colonisation during the 1870s and 1880s.

At that time, the Maori prophets Tohu KÄkahi and Te Whiti o Rongomai urged their people to take non-violent action, including the pulling out of survey pegs and the erection of barricades, to try to stop the confiscation of their land.

Signer and Bailey did not last night exhort people to pull out the seismic survey pegs of the 2D survey currently being done around parts of the coast for operator Todd Energy and its PEP 51149 partners.

But the couple did say the Parihaka elders were disappointed Todd had named a petroleum lead Tohu and that the partners in the nearby offshore lease PEP 51558 had called their licence Parihaka.

Signer and Bailey described the 2010 American film Gasland, written and directed by Josh Fox, as “really good … really shocking”.

They were worried the hydraulic fracturing outlined in the movie was also occurring in New Zealand and would pollute waterways and farmland, as it is alleged to have done in the US.

But the Petroleum Exploration and Production Association of New Zealand said there was no comparison between the shallow shale oil and gas fraccing often done in parts of the US and that done occasionally in New Zealand.

“There is no evidence that drilling or fraccing in New Zealand is contaminating water supplies,” Pepanz executive officer John Pfahlert told the meeting.

He told PetroleumNews.net that “it spoke volumes that none of the so-called disaffected landowners mentioned had attended the meeting”.

It was also difficult to refute alleged claims of damage if matters were only discussed in generalities by people “philosophically opposed to petroleum”, Pfahlert added.

It is known that all oil and gas companies active in Taranaki are much better with Maori and landowner liaison matters than 20 years ago.

There are regular liaisons with affected landowners, iwi (tribe) and hapu (sub-tribe) representatives, as well as archaeologist and iwi visits to proposed wellsite or development sites regarding the identification of unmarked areas of cultural significance to Maori.

“We have links with east coast people and Wellington,” Signer warned, referring to possible protest actions by people opposed to offshore exploration by the Brazilian government-controlled Petrobras.

A flotilla of ships is to set sail from Auckland for the East Cape this Sunday in response to a call from East Cape iwi Te Whanau a Apanui to oppose deepwater exploration.

The iwi is calling for nationwide support for its opposition to Petrobras’ exploration activities in the Raukumara Basin.

Greenpeace, Forest and Bird, anti-mining group Coromandel Watchdog, the Coal Action Network, the Nuclear Free Flotilla and climate action group 350 Aotearoa have all promised their support in opposing deepwater oil and gas exploration around New Zealand’s coast.

Interesting to see that both Signer and Bailey were part of the contingent arrested during the Urewera raids…..

Me thinks that if the Maori owned the foreshore and seabed, like they want, and were entitled to all royalties from mineral exploration, then somehow this would not be a problem, and they certailny wouldn’t be opposing PetroBras’ upcoming exploration.
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March 24, 2011 9:08am
Murray

If Maori can show a history of mineral exploitation then I say good on them. At present thats pretty much limited to greenstone which they do indeed largely own the rights too.

With the notable exception being the one tribe which allows people to take small pieces that they find on particular rivers which is in keeping with the traditional views of greenstone ownership and very nice of them.

Oil and gas outside a hui environment, not so much.
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March 24, 2011 9:14am
Luc Hansen

So mattyroo

If you want “Drill, baby, drill” surely you should want to see the F & S vested to Maori.
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March 24, 2011 9:19am
mawm

National’s day of shame. The final vote on ~~giving Maori the fores~~ the Marine and Costal Areas Bill takes place today.

How convenient that the Hughes story has been leaked to distract the lemmings……and I wonder by whom. Maybe Goff is right.
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March 24, 2011 9:23am
Murray

Oh look luc is talking crap again. Must be a day ending in a y.

If we want to hear from the kiddies table we’ll let know lucy. Till then, hush, gown ups talking now.
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March 24, 2011 9:32am
mattyroo

Not at all Puke, I want maori to be treated as equal citizens, with no special rights.

I also want maori to stand-up and own their own problems, such as failure in school, drug & alcohol addiction, family violence, putting their kids in clothes dryers etc. etc.
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March 24, 2011 9:36am
lofty

No mawm, I don’t think Goff is right in this one, although I understand your frustration.

Hughes is the architect of his own demise, and the timing is just timing.

Goff is just a hypocrite, I remember the Worth saga well and a certain strikingly lovely lady, who turned out to be a party Mata Hari.

Goff is being hoisted by his own petard, and it is about time that it happened, there will be more to come on this for certain.
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March 24, 2011 9:38am
Pete George

Maybe Goff isn’t right, going by this report:

Sources within the Labour Party have told Radio New Zealand News there have been previous occasions when his (Hughes) private activities have caused concern and his judgement is now under question.

Labour doesn’t seem to be a happy camp, and it could get even unhappier.
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March 24, 2011 9:42am
Luc Hansen

I also want maori to stand-up and own their own problems, such as failure in school, drug & alcohol addiction, family violence, putting their kids in clothes dryers etc. etc.

Which of the above existed in Maori society prior to 1840, mattyroo?

By the way, compensation and redress is not special treatment – it is Maori right under international law and our law.

Murray, if I said the sky was blue you would say I was talking crap. But if it was crap I wanted, I would visit your blog. It wouldn’t be a long visit because the smell of crap makes me want to puke.

Have a nice day, because I’m sure most who know you won’t.
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March 24, 2011 9:46am
big bruv

Is it just me or is Finlayson coming across as an arrogant wanker?
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March 24, 2011 9:48am
BeaB

davinci
Entirely agree. I thought Geoff Robinson was ridiculous this morning with his ‘democratically elected council’ rubbish. Mind you, this is the same guy who thought the rise in domestic violence cases in Christchurch was ‘understandable’.
And Simon Mercep always sounds like a gossipy housewife with his querulous and effeminate voice.
Bring back Sean Plunkett, please. He always managed to wake me up in the morning.
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March 24, 2011 9:52am
lofty

You reckon the BBQ is just getting warmed up Pete?

Who would be the prime leaker candidate you reckon? Cunners?

If it turns out to be a labour leak, it would be more like pissing on the boss, rather than a gentle leak.

Just in time for the last of the summer weather.
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March 24, 2011 9:52am
lofty

@ DPF.. I am sorry David I am getting a little gleeful over all this, just can’t help myself.
It is a case of come uppance, and the price to pay for deceitful behaviour over a number of years, and the destruction of a once good & proud party. I just hope that the media and the public keep the blowtorch hard on the buttocks of the labour party MP’s.
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March 24, 2011 9:53am
James Stephenson

My question on the matter is why is the Dompost screaming MP Sex Claim! I thought we didn’t have any details like that. Did I miss something?

Goof was asked if the allegations were of a sexual nature and gave a no comment / can’t confirm or deny type answer…
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March 24, 2011 9:55am
thedavincimode

PG

“Maybe Goff isn’t right, going by this report”

Or maybe he was just lying … again.
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March 24, 2011 9:55am
James Stephenson

Bruv – It’s not just you.
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March 24, 2011 9:56am
Viking2

HMMM, but what did you all miss inthe report in the Herald.

[DPF: Deleted and 50 demerits. You’re damn lucky it isn’t more than that]
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March 24, 2011 10:18am
minto57

Parliament has become dominated by Homosexuals with influence
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March 24, 2011 10:20am
Sofia

The Luke Bradley, head schoolboy drink/drive matter, has another aspect given on Radio Live earlier this morning, in that his father is on the Board of Trustees and mother has a position in the school’s administration.

What I would admire would be if Luke now stood himself down, in face of his parents, errant school principal and failed Board of Trustees, to show his school mates that drink driving should have consequences and that he is lucky he didn’t kill anyone – himself or a school mate.

That a caller to Radio Live yesterday morning who said her daughter, with a similar conviction, enjoyed considerable bravado on Facebook, shows Luke’s continuation as head boy is not in his peers’ interests.
[This issue at present flies full in the face of the drink/drive tv ad MATES, if it has any validity]
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March 24, 2011 10:24am
Manolo

Is it just me or is Finlayson coming across as an arrogant wanker?

You’re not alone. Multitudes of people are saying the same about Tinkerbell.
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March 24, 2011 10:24am
mawm

Minto – And now that mincing tosser is about to give away the coastline.
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March 24, 2011 10:24am
Manolo

The final vote on the Marine and Costal Areas Bill takes place today.

Labour-lite to lose 70+ votes among small circle family and friends because of it.
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March 24, 2011 10:27am
lofty

And viking2 joins the ranks of the unwashed…well done.
I am sure you are happy with your filthy little slur.
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March 24, 2011 10:27am
RightNow

I also want maori to stand-up and own their own problems, such as failure in school, drug & alcohol addiction, family violence, putting their kids in clothes dryers etc. etc.

Which of the above existed in Maori society prior to 1840, mattyroo?

Are you suggesting we stop letting Maori go to school, consume alcohol and drugs, and have electricity to their house?
It’s a bit of a radical solution, but I guess radical is what we need.
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March 24, 2011 10:29am
lastmanstanding

One has often considered that if the sexual orientation of the Labour Party members of the House are representative of the general population then 40% plus of the citizerns must be gay
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March 24, 2011 11:12am
backster

SMTTC..”Can someone please tell me why it is anybody’s business that a lifer is allowed out of prison for medical treatment. I have the impression at the moment that NZ is nothing more than a country full of fucking whingers.”

It is of interest for the same reason that an Axe murderer who intended to blow up a Gas Station and Kill as many people as possible but changed his mind at the last moment because his family would have been killed, so he went next door and chopped up the neighbour and tried to chop up his wife is now being paroled is of interest. Would you like to live next door to him?
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March 24, 2011 11:40am
Tauhei Notts

In the mid eighties the American ambassador’s racehorse, Lacka Reason won the Caulfield Cup. David Lange commented at the time that it was a first for horse racing where a racehorse raced by a diplomat was named after that diplomat’s country’s foreign affairs policy.

Well Darren Hughes can look at tomorrow’s meeting 27 at the TAB, race 7 horse one. It was named after him, and if a horse as good as that can’t run a place at provincial Albury it will be a queer result.
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March 24, 2011 12:23pm
smttc

Backster, can you give me the idiot proof version of that answer. I mean Lundy is under constant supervision by Corrections while undergoing treatment. So why does anyone give a fuck?
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March 24, 2011 12:27pm
Viking2

Ah well many a true word is spoken in jest. Feels to me like I touched a nerve. Why else would what I had to say provoke such a reaction? 50 demerits. WOW!
Perhaps the blind cannot see.

I would ask in all fairness to myself and you may republish my post to support your point of view, that I can never remember anyone on Kiwiblog ever getting 50 demerits for such a mild post.

We see all sorts of stuff posted here and that’s always been accepted with occasional demirits for people who continued on or were just plain ignorant. I don’t believe that I was either so the censor who has the right to do as he likes, has lambasted me with the highest demerits ever for getting to close to the truth in the middle of Labours pain.
Its interesting to see the post space that Goff and Hughes have gained when we don’t know Hughes crime, for at this point there is no crime but its fair to say that the police are now under no illusions about following up on these things, (enter Judith Collins), as oppossed to not doing so before. The facts as known arethatthe accusser is 18 so of legal age, no one has mentioned drugs yet and everybody has assumed that there is a sexual overtone to this. No question that alcohol is involved.
Wether this turns to anything at all is for the future.
In the case of Worth, National set out to set an example of their new found honestly and moral policy but that was quickly overun by their need to cover various other cabinet ministers behinds over various accomodation rorts etc. ( the reality of being in Govt. I guess took hold.)
They continued their dishonesty with their ignoring of the public over things like the smacking referendum and the foreshore Bill.
And that’s what this beat up is really all about is it not. Helen was a master at creating a diversion at the right time but she pales into insignificnce alongside this beat up.
We are in for a major change to the constitution of this country against the huge opposition of many NZer’s and National to their forever shame are ramming this
through and this under the cover of a ready made smokescreen.
I have waited for DPFto give this Bill the kind of treatment he does other subjects but I recall just one post a week or so ago which basically followed the company line. No rebutting of the objection, indeed almost like he was hidding from having to talk about the subject. Pity really because I have a deal of respect for much DPF’s posts.
And if you have a point the best way is to post and allow debate, for opinions then get aired and sometimes changed on little understood facts.

Time will tell if the perception in my deleted post is right or not but i do have a record of being wise before the event. e.g. I posted a couple of days ago about the difference between Key and English over the finances. Well today that has emerged in the print media.

Time will see if I am right on this one too

[DPF: Your comment was digisting and defamatory. 50 demerits is getting off light. I’ve suspended people for less]
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March 24, 2011 12:29pm
mawm

We are in for a major change to the constitution of this country against the huge opposition of many NZer’s and National to their forever shame are ramming this through and this under the cover of a ready made smokescreen.

V2 – I’d really like to know what you said in your deleted post. It must have been the unpalatable truth to evoke such heavy censure. Maybe a repost in the GD on some other blog that is continually exposing National’s move away from their founding principles.
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March 24, 2011 12:47pm
Jim

The great example of NZ Herald sloppy reporting:

Melissa Therese Martin, 38, from Sydney Australia, and her husband had been climbing in the Karako Glacier area, near Lake Adelaide, making their way down from a 4000m peak when she fell about 1.30pm.

and then at the end of the report:

Te Anau police sergeant Tod Hollebon said the woman’s name would not be released until family members had been notified.
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March 24, 2011 12:55pm
lofty

And you V2 are quite prepared to fire unsubstantiated pooh around, but it is Ok cause you never “actually” said anything eh? because you are not getting what you perceive to be your rights as a citizen.
Your verbose rhetoric actually adds up to nothing.
You got what the blog owner gave you, end of story.

I am not a particular supporter of he who you mentioned, or even in the electorate, but that was a piece of dirty pool.
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March 24, 2011 1:08pm
bereal

lastmanstanding 11.12
of course you are correct, the proportion of rainbows (as they call themselves) in Labour has no
relativity at all to the general population. The true weight of influence of this block is really unknown.
i have speculated in the past that some day in the future someone, maybe a political studies student
will pen a treatise on,
“The effect Helen Clarks sexuality had on the development of New Zealand.”
The true effects have not even started to become evident yet.
P.C. ensures that,’ Don’t ask, don’t tell,’ prevails presently. There are many facets to this question.
Many will scoff at this theory now but someday this will be recognised as a valid question.
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March 24, 2011 1:12pm
KH

The gender of MPs has long been published and discussed as important.
And that discussion was accepted as legitimate
eg. How many woman MPs we had then, and have now. etc etc
So why is it not commonly published who of the MPs are gay what are the numbers.
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March 24, 2011 2:07pm
side show bob

mattyroo 9.08, These people are fruit loops. Was going to go to said meeting but couldn’t be bothered in the end. Fracking has occurred in Taranaki but this usually takes place 1000s of meters below the ground, I know this as a relative has often advised on such operations. I wait with interest the reaction of those spoken about in the article when the F&S is signed off. Many tribes around Taranaki stand to take in millions of dollars in royalties if iron sand mining gets the go ahead on the coast. Iron sand is in a different class then oil and gas and owners can charge royalties, how convenient. I wonder if their love for mother earth remains as strong when big dollar signs flash before their eyes, I suspect not.
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March 24, 2011 2:20pm
KiwiGreg

@ KH because in most cases it’s obvious who is a woman and not at all clear who is gay. I’d argue in neither case is it actually all that relevant.
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March 24, 2011 2:21pm
Manolo

Well Darren Hughes can look at tomorrow’s meeting 27 at the TAB, race 7 horse one. It was named after him, and if a horse as good as that can’t run a place at provincial Albury it will be a queer result.

The only possible bet is a bob each way!
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March 24, 2011 2:37pm
kowtow

davidp @849

That was the point. Kennedy didn’t get caught with her. The bastard ran. And the left consider him a great man.!
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March 24, 2011 3:44pm
bereal

KiwiGreg @2.21
so you would argue that who is gay is not that relevant. O.K. what are your reasons ?
i would argue to the contrary and say it is very relevant, particularly in social engineering
matters, the main focus of the Clark govt. Try gay marriage, reducing the relevance of the Mum,
Dad and kids family, prostitution law reform, relaxing moral standards at every opportunity,
just for a start. You state thats its obvious who is a man and who is a woman, true but ever heard
of the closet ? How many polititions, ‘specially Labour ones are still in it. We don’t know what they
really believe, they are not straight up with the voters,
What say you ?
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March 24, 2011 4:02pm
lastmanstanding

bereal Well stated I believe my represetatives sexual oreintation is important. It will influence their decision making and in the case of the Labour Party mean their decisions on social matters are totally at odds with my wishes.
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March 24, 2011 4:32pm
Yvette

I may have missed it, but has the accuser of Darren Hughes been named? Why should his credibility not be speculated on at the same time as that of Hughes?

Also, something else I have missed, what the hell did Judith Tizard do the be so reviled – and that seeming to be so, how did she ever get on Labour’s List?
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March 24, 2011 4:49pm
Rex Widerstrom

Irony alert.

Some stupid unfeeling bastard left their beuatiful three year old Labrador, Ella, to die in the heat locked in their car in Sydney.

Ignorant, selfish, git with no thought for the welfare of an animal. And proud owner of a Prius.
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March 24, 2011 5:06pm
gravedodger

Yvette, would serial trougher, close friend and ally of the Prime minister, member of a dynastic family in the Labour ranks, Daughter Of a Former GG and a very loud member of the party from childhood not be enough. Sheesh, I wont go into orientation qualifications and we are down to the level inhabited by the unelectables.
ps many of us would like her in Wellington when the referendum on the voting system is on the table for discussion.LOL
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March 24, 2011 5:11pm
bereal

Jeez Yvette,
Judith did nothing, thats the point, except attend every social function her position allowed,
it was said that she would attend the opening of an envelope.
She got to be minister of an invented non portfolio where she could sit on her fat arse
for years and promoted onto the list for one reason and one reason only,
she was Helen Clarks “very good friend” although i do remember she stated
that she had briefly tried a hetero relationship once.
The reason her credibility is not speculated on is because almost everyone knows that she
has none.
If anyone challenges the above i’d love to hear one thing she acheived in all the long years
she was on the public tit courtesy of her mate Helen.
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March 24, 2011 5:14pm
adze

Things sure have changed since I was a kid. A Te Reo immersion teacher is in trouble because he pulled the ears of some pupils. I remember getting pulled along by my ear by an old bat of a teacher when I was 6 (my generation was the last to suffer corporal punishment). She’s probably dead now, but it’s surprising to consider what teachers DON’T get away with now.
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March 24, 2011 5:18pm
KH

Re Judith Tizard
As Judith said to my sister as Judith stomped and pushed past the queue for the Opera.
“Don’t you know who I am”
What more does anyone need to know?
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March 24, 2011 5:22pm
KiwiGreg

@ bereal and LMS Really? You are that hung up on someone’s sexual orientation. I would think most items on your list are basic issues of fairness, common sense and human rights (I hate that term), at least to me and I dont really care if the people who voted for (or against) them are gay, straight, abstainers or whatever, anymore than I care that they do or dont believe in god, gods, or UFOs.

A person is a lot of things, focusing on one of them as a “deal breaker” is of course your right but it seems to be a pretty narrow way of reacting.
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March 24, 2011 5:24pm
Yvette

Tizard
OK, OK, already – so why is she still on the List?
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March 24, 2011 5:30pm
Sofia

Foreshore Bill passes.
“None of the Government MPs, nor a handful of other Labour and Green MPs, were anywhere to be seen.”
Apparently it took two ‘reporters’, Tracy Watkins and Kate Chapman, to right this incomprehensible krap.

And opening sentence –
“Parliament erupted into song on the passage of the law replacing Labour’s contentious foreshore and seabed act this afternoon.”
Why bother to tell anyone that, if you can’t tell us what the song was?
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March 24, 2011 5:52pm
gravedodger

Sheesh again Yvette Helen of Toy was still in command when the bloody list was drawn up. Another dam good reason to get rid of the insanity that is MMP.
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March 24, 2011 5:53pm
Rodders

KH said “Don’t you know who I am?”

The suitable answer to someone like Judith could be “No, can’t you remember either?”
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March 24, 2011 6:19pm
Viking2

# lastmanstanding (437) Says:
March 24th, 2011 at 4:32 pm

bereal Well stated I believe my representatives sexual orientation is important. It will influence their decision making and in the case of the Labour Party mean their decisions on social matters are totally at odds with my wishes.

Not only their orientation for the reason given but their ethnicity as well. All these things make a person and shape their attitudes towards others along with their life experiences. It also shapes where they see themselves in our society. None here would countenance a Muslim hiding their religious and political basis whist being elected for Parliament and if that’s so why wouldn’t the same rule apply to others?
I can name one elected MP where those types of details were never disclosed until he was well elected.
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March 24, 2011 7:20pm
hj

Legislation that repeals the Foreshore and Seabed Act and gives Maori the right to seek customary title to parts of the coastline has been passed into law after a passionate debate in Parliament.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10714720
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March 24, 2011 7:49pm
bereal

Kiwigreg.
No. i’m not hung up on it at all. i was commenting on a previous post.
i did not bring the subject up. i do however have sufficient world experience to
realise that if a person is gay, lesbian or transgender that is going to influence the
way they see certain matters, particularly social matters. If that person is going
to stand to represent me in parliament i would like to know their proclivity before
i decide to vote for them or not. Closet homosexuals are not straight up with the
electorate. Can you see that ?
Having said that the fact that a candidate was , gay, lesbian etc would not preclude
me voting for them, its just that i feel i have a right to know given that i know that
that is going to be an influence on their views.
It is not the be all end all, but it should be taken into account.
If you dissagree please tell me why politicians publish personal biographies ?

As KH and lastmanstanding, and others have pointed out we should be made aware
so we can make a fair call. These days there is no real stigma in being gay, why conceal it ?

Another subject altogether is why is it that such a huge percentage of Labour MPs are
homosexuals, in or out of the closet ? Helen Clarks influence ?
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March 24, 2011 7:54pm
hj

Thursday, 24 March, 2011 – 19:10

Citizens Initiated Referendum over Marine & Coastal Area Act

The Coastal Coalition has responded to the passing of the Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill through its final stages in Parliament today, by announcing it will launch a Citizen’s Initiated Referendum to repeal the new Act.

Dr Hugh Barr and Dr Muriel Newman, joint Coastal Coalition spokespeople said, “We have decided to proceed with the referendum because the majority of New Zealanders are strongly opposed to the Bill. Kiwis want to be treated as one people not two.

“While most people agree with the principle of settling outstanding historical Treaty injustices, they believe that repealing public ownership of the foreshore and seabed – so it can be privatised and gifted to Maori – is a step too far.

http://www.voxy.co.nz/national/coastal-coalition-initiate-citizens-referendum-over-marine-amp-castal-asrea-act/5/86268

Somebody twitter David Farrar! Doesn’t he listen to the news?
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March 24, 2011 7:55pm
Viking2

Now the Gravy Train begins just as was predicted.
Will our Courts have the Braveheart required to deny these requests.
Answer? Probably not.

The Maori Party staked its future on the bill, and said it had delivered on its promises to repeal the 2004 Act and restore Maori access to the courts.

“We have honoured our word,” co-leader Tariana Turia said.

“The challenge now is to test this new law. The message we have been getting from some iwi leaders is that now that the right of access to the courts has been restored, case law in customary rights may be politically achievable.”

Mrs Turia urged whanau, hapu and iwi to grasp the opportunity and go to court to seek customary titles.
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March 24, 2011 7:58pm
Pete George

We have decided to proceed with the referendum because the majority of New Zealanders are strongly opposed to the Bill

I wonder how they know that. I’d suspect it’s more likely the majority of New Zealanders would rather they’d heard the last of the Bill.
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March 24, 2011 8:03pm
hj

CATHERINE DELAHUNTY (Green) : Tēnā koe, Mr Chair. Tēnā koutou e te Whare. I will address Part 1 of the Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill, but I would like to give some context. In 2004 my partner and I were the original, token tauiwi* who travelled from Tauranga to Wellington with Ngāti Porou led by Tāme Te Maro, and with Ngāti Kahungunu led by Moana Jackson, Ngāhiwi Tomoana, and Mereana Pitman.

* foriegner in this land
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March 24, 2011 8:22pm
hj

I wonder how they know that. I’d suspect it’s more likely the majority of New Zealanders would rather they’d heard the last of the Bill.
…..
remember the yes vote?
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March 24, 2011 8:23pm
mawm

Now you can expect your visit to the beach to include palming a couple of twenties to the fat guys with black wrap-around dark glasses. This is just how Apartheid started – a few favours for the bro’s (broederbond), a bit of special treatment for them, take away from the others….

To say that I’m disgusted is an understatement.
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March 24, 2011 8:33pm
hj

ACT MP Hilary Calvert put up a raft of amendments as she tried to change the title.

Among her alternatives were the Marine and Coastal Area (Secret Deals Behind Closed Doors Without Public Scrutiny) Bill, the Marine and Coastal Area (Different Rules for Different Races) Bill, the Marine and Coastal Area (Abuse of Process) Bill and the Different Laws for Different Races Bill.

They were ruled out of order on the grounds that her titles didn’t correctly describe its contents, and the legislation survived under the title the Government gave it: the Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill.

Ms Calvert said it was a disgrace.

“It’s one of the worst bills to come before this House in living memory, it has made a mockery of our democracy,” she said.

“We’ve seen the select committee process at its worst — despite spending months going around the country and listening to thousands and thousands of submissions violently opposed to it, the select committee sent it back with no amendments.”
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March 24, 2011 8:46pm
reid

Re: FSB bill, yeah yeah but who cares now. The media was never going to expose it even if Hughes wasn’t a distraction so who cares?

Let it grind its way through and just see what the courts do. Some of you seem to think you already know. Is that because you’re a Supreme Court Judge or are you just guessing?
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March 24, 2011 8:59pm
noskire

Will be in Wgtn for the weekend and looking for a decent watering hole. Close to The Terrace – any recommendations?
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March 24, 2011 9:02pm
bhudson

It depends on what you are looking for. Simple pub – maybe watch some sport – The Shepherds Arms around the corner (sort of) on Tinakori Rd.

Or the Backbenchers (Molesworth St) or The Thistle (Mulgrave St).

Then of course if you want something a little closer to the heart of town:

– D3 – Featherston St
– Leuven (ditto)
– Black Harp (ditto)
– Foxglove (down at Queens Wharf – normally quite busy early on)
– Concrete bar – Lambton Quay
– St Johns bar (down on waterfront by Te Papa and our new waka house)
– or any number of busy place late at night on Courtney Place

If you are looking for a quiet watering hole – nice atmosphere, not too busy or noisy – then I would recommend The Shepherds Arms.
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March 24, 2011 9:11pm
adze

Concrete bar (near the Cable car terminus) if you’re the corporate type and not cash-strapped 🙂
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March 24, 2011 9:12pm
Pauleastbay

Oh how I long for FPP, no more Calverts, no more Kedgleys, incompetents promoted way past their level of competence.

The level of fear over this is quit scary, I live in the eastern Bay of Plenty, plenty of beaches, plenty of coastline, plenty of New Zealanders of all hues, and no one gives a fuck, we will all go fishing and diving on the week end just like we did last weekend and if the seas rooted we’ll all play golf. Too much fear, not enough living done by some of the commentators here.
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March 24, 2011 9:18pm
noskire

Thanks bhudson for your directory-type reply 🙂 Will be heading to The Backbenchers if anyone want’s to say g’day. Flight doesn’t get in until 7.45ish, so maybe around about 8.30. Cheers.
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March 24, 2011 9:21pm
hj

If The Maori Party got nothing then the bill was just rearanging the chairs. If they did get something we will see issues on the ground rather than hiding behind “only want their day in court” and “discrimination”.
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March 24, 2011 9:35pm
hj

“The level of fear over this is quit scary, I live in the eastern Bay of Plenty, plenty of beaches, plenty of coastline, plenty of New Zealanders of all hues, and no one gives a fuck, we will all go fishing and diving on the week end just like we did last weekend and if the seas rooted we’ll all play golf. Too much fear, not enough living done by some of the commentators here.”
….
So what is your position: you wouldn’t care if it was sold off to the Chinese as long as you could swim and go diving every weekend?
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March 24, 2011 9:43pm
hj

“By having Act New Zealand, the Maori Party and United Future in the team, John Key has wisely expanded the Government to ensure that it is broad-based and stable. Property Council looks forward to working with all Ministers to progress changes that enable New Zealand to grow and prosper again.

…….
so that’s the price of staying in power and ensuring your patrons get what they want.

“By giving the new Infrastructure portfolio to the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance, Bill English, the Prime Minister Designate has confirmed that developing infrastructure that enables an increase in economic productivity is a top priority.”

and as the Savings working group found the spending on that infrastructure is a subsidy to developers.
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/BU0811/S00315/new-cabinet-has-the-skill-and-nous.htm
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March 24, 2011 9:49pm
noskire

Apart from the cost of the Christchurch earthquake rebuild, WHERE are we going to get the builders to do it? Kiwi chippies are paid better in Aus as far as I know, and there is plenty of work there after floods etc. The Japan earthquake/tsunami will call on staggering manpower resources from that surrounding area also.

Ireland?
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March 24, 2011 9:51pm
Tauhei Notts

Different Subject, but this is general debate so here goes.

Stratos Tv tonight – the Perigo Show.
It is a must see.
Brilliant.
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March 24, 2011 10:08pm
hj

Time to let owners build their own houses again.
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March 24, 2011 10:08pm
hj

“Oh how I long for FPP, no more Calverts, no more Kedgleys, incompetents promoted way past their level of competence.

The level of fear over this is quit scary, I live in the eastern Bay of Plenty, plenty of beaches, plenty of coastline, plenty of New Zealanders of all hues, and no one gives a fuck, we will all go fishing and diving on the week end just like we did last weekend and if the seas rooted we’ll all play golf. Too much fear, not enough living done by some of the commentators here.”
…..
you must be shallow as shit.
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March 24, 2011 10:09pm
Nookin

Came across a couple of Irishmen the other day. They were working their way along the grass berm on the road. One was digging holes at 10 metre intervals. The other fella was filling them in. They said they were planting trees. Huh? Apparently the guy with the trees was sick that day. Told them they were wasting their time and they should have applied for the job as tree fellers. “”Tree fellers”!”they said “”there’s only the two of us.
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March 24, 2011 10:10pm
Manolo

The lazy Messiah will have to answer some questions next week.

Obama Faces Political Storm Over Libya When Congress Returns

President Obama can’t hold off Congress much longer. In the form of hearings, media appearances and possibly a vote, Congress is determined to have its say on the Libyan conflict when lawmakers return to Washington next week.

Lawmakers on both sides of the aisle have been grumbling ever since the president ordered U.S. missile strikes on Muammar al-Qaddafi’s regime in support of a U.N.-authorized no-fly zone Saturday. But the unrest is reaching a boiling point and from the top down, elected officials are pressing for questions about the U.S. role in the assault to get a full airing on Capitol Hill next week.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/03/24/obama-faces-political-storm-libya-congress-returns/
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March 25, 2011 7:50am
Manolo

The deal between Labour-lite and the racist Maori Party is sealed with a kiss. And….Tinkerbell will be delighted.

Parliament erupted into song on the passage of the law replacing Labour’s contentious foreshore and seabed act this afternoon. The bill was passed by 63 votes to 56 though there was controversy when independent MP Hone Harawira was told his vote would not count.

Deputy Speaker Lindsay Tisch ruled that Mr Harawira, who gave his vote in Maori, had only offered “a view” but had not actually cast a vote. But Mr Harawira was allowed to vote again after National minister John Carter intervened to ask Parliament leave to allow the MP to vote again.

The Marine and Coastal Area Act replaces the Foreshore and Seabed Act 2004 and follows more than two years of consultation.

Attorney-General Chris Finlayson said it ensured the right of public access without charge to the common marine and coastal area while recognise the rights of Maori by allowing them to seek customary title to parts of the marine and coastal area.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/politics/4805575/ACT-manage-to-delay-foreshore-Bill-for-25-mins
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March 25, 2011 8:02am
starboard

Why cant these losers progress forward into the 21st century..

“A Human Rights Commission adviser has allegedly cursed outspoken Ngapuhi man David Rankin in Maori on an online forum, raising the spectre of a “boiled head”.

Mr Rankin has complained about employee Marama Davidson over a series of online posts – the latest of which allegedly included the word “pokokohua”.

The term puts someone’s head in the same category as food and is hugely insulting.

He alleges that over the past six months Ms Davidson has attacked him for his views which have included criticising Te Tii Marae for charging journalists at Waitangi and calling the hikoi to Parliament over the latest foreshore legislation an “embarrassment” to Maori”
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March 25, 2011 8:37am
big bruv

“The deal between Labour-lite and the racist Maori Party is sealed with a kiss. And….Tinkerbell will be delighted.”

If the deal was sealed I might be able to accept it a bit easier.

But no….the racist female co leader has already said that the apartheid party will be back for more in the near future.

Maori have no intention of sticking to any deal.
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March 25, 2011 8:43am
Luc Hansen

Tariana sounded very pleased this morning, particularly with the provision of redress to the courts.

So the colonised are required to prostrate themselves before the coloniser’s courts to seek justice under rules set by the coloniser’s parliament.

It just all seems more than a little oxymoronic to me.

Why don’t we ask the UN to set a a special committee, comprised of their best indigenous rights representatives, to resolve all outstanding matters?
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March 25, 2011 9:34am
Banana Llama

I would imagine such a suggestion would be rejected by the citizens of this country Luc.
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March 25, 2011 9:48am

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