General Debate 26 February 2011

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democracymum

Today I watched the garden city I grew up in, suffer a massive blow
Like an unwilling participant in a prize fight,
Its Cathedral spire knocked to the canvas
Lifeless, bloodied.
Crowds watching in horror
Willing her to get up
To go another round with Mother Nature

This morning I watched the buildings of my youth
Paraded on prime time networks
Spat out onto the pavement
Like lost teeth
The four avenues
An urban boxing ring
A city and its suburbs on the ropes

Tonight I watched the faces of the people whose lives I have shared
Trying to go the distance
Round after round
Against a ruthless opponent
Fighting on with dignity
Waiting for the bell
To signal an end to the madness

These memories will be forever etched in the dust and debris
Of our Canterbury landscape
And in our nation’s heart
Lives lost but never forgotten
Soon to rise to her knees
To fight again, better prepared
Down but not out
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February 26, 2011 11:38am
Manolo

Nancy Pelosi must be related to Chris Carter and Jonathon Hunt.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1351005/Air-Taxpayer-Chocolate-strawberries-extravagant-demands-Nancy-Pelosi-travelled-world-courtesy-US-Airforce.html
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February 26, 2011 12:04pm
s.russell

$101,429 seems a lot for some chocolate-dipped strawberries. There may be two stories here:
* Pelosi’s extravagant use of military aircraft for her personal transport; and
* why the military pays so much for strawberries – who is profiting from this?
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February 26, 2011 12:13pm
Yvette

The website blaming the Christchurch earthquakes on Gay Ski Week, for all its moronic stupidity, did seem very current with its resources, with one or two better photographs than other sites even.
Curious to see if they were keeping this up, I used the DPF link and find –

The website you were trying to reach is temporarily unavailable.
Please check back soon.
If you are the owner of this website, please log in for additional  information or contact us as soon as possible.

Could it be that they were acting without God’s approval?
It would be nice if they have had some sort of little disaster all of their own.
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February 26, 2011 12:20pm
3-coil

Was in Wellington (Wadestown) earlier this morning – watched the Queen Mary 2 berthing. Absolutely amazing vessel – dwarfs the stadium. Departs 7pm tonight.
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February 26, 2011 1:17pm
Johnboy

That is very good democracymum. Thank you. 🙂
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February 26, 2011 1:40pm
democracymum

Thanks JohnBoy

I grew up in Christchurch – cannot believe the carnage and devastation.
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February 26, 2011 1:48pm
Johnboy

Most impressive 3-coil.

I particularly like how they have kept the same frontal appearance as the original QM around the bridge.

http://www.google.co.nz/images?um=1&hl=en&biw=1071&bih=825&tbs=isch%3A1&sa=1&q=queen+mary+1+ship&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=

The new ship is still a horny old bitch as well. 🙂

“Meeting of the Queens

On 23 February 2006, RMS Queen Mary 2 saluted her predecessor as she made her port of call in Los Angeles Harbor, while on a cruise to Mexico. The event was covered heavily by local and international media.[25]
[edit] Ship’s horn

The salute itself was carried out with Queen Mary replying with her one working air horn in response to Queen Mary 2 sounding her combination of two brand new horns and an original 1934 Queen Mary horn (on loan from the City of Long Beach).[26] Queen Mary originally had three whistles tuned to 55 Hz, a frequency chosen because it was low enough that the extremely loud sound of it would not be painful to human ears.[27] Modern IMO regulations specify ships’ horn frequencies to be in the range 70–200 Hz for vessels that are over 200 metres (660 ft) in length.[28] Traditionally, the lower the frequency, the larger the ship. Queen Mary 2, being 345 metres (1,132 ft) long, was given the lowest possible frequency (70 Hz) for her regulation whistles, in addition to the refurbished 55 Hz whistle on permanent loan. 55 Hz is the lower bass “A” note found an octave up from the lowest note of a piano keyboard. The air-driven Tyfon whistle can be heard at least ten miles (16 km) away.[29]

Hopefully they will sound it when they leave.
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February 26, 2011 1:50pm
JiveKitty

Why is there a belief in the general populace of NZ and reflected in government policy that those over a certain age are somehow entitled to money merely because they have reached that age? If they are unable to work, there are sickness or invalids benefits available. If they can’t find work, there are unemployment benefits available. It’s not as if these payments are forward funded – yes, they’ve paid taxes for years, but by and large they were the recipients of the benefits of the taxes at or not long after the time they paid them and while they will have funded others age-given entitlement, that’s no reason for an age-given entitlement to continue to be given and furthermore, the entitlement is only sustainable with a perpetually growing population (which is not sustainable in and of itself).

That a person can get money merely for being 65 years or older doesn’t make sense to me, seems condescending and implicitly perpetuates the idea that if you are “old” for a given value of old (in this case 65), you aren’t particularly useful to society but society is far to civilised just to do away with you so it funds you instead. Potentially ageism is a problem, yes, but it doesn’t have to be perpetuated as okay.

Also, what’s up with funding spouses of those who are over 65 years old if the person who is over 65 years old decides to include them?
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February 26, 2011 1:50pm
JiveKitty

@democracymum: I add my appreciation with Johnboy’s.
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February 26, 2011 1:52pm
Shunda barunda

Could it be that they were acting without God’s approval?

I just think the whole deal was a sick joke, or an attempt to bring anger towards Christian folk.
It should just be ignored.
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February 26, 2011 1:53pm
democracymum

Thanks JiveKitty 🙂
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February 26, 2011 1:54pm
JiveKitty

@Shunda: Agree. It’s either made by a Poe or somebody who’s religious but not representative of the majority of religious people in NZ. Either way, it should just be ignored.
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February 26, 2011 1:57pm
Gooner

Change of topic – didn’t the Black Caps do well. What were they – 76/6.

Aussie got there with 13 overs and 7 wickets.
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February 26, 2011 2:03pm
Johnboy

democracymum: I’m not a very emotional person but when I heard the email from the ambo officer read out on ZB I have to admit I shed a tear.

The really surreal thing about it all is that is meant to be us in Wellington that it should happen to, no one ever thought Christchurch!

Its a wake up call to all of NZ. It will happen again somewhere sometime.
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February 26, 2011 2:04pm
Shunda barunda

Its a wake up call to all of NZ. It will happen again somewhere sometime.

I have just been under the house trying to think of a way to manage liquefaction, but short of building a kind of barge underneath I can’t see how I can really do anything.

Feeling bloody nervous here in Greymouth, these earthquakes must have increased the already high probability of the Alpine fault going, and they reckon it will be 30 times more powerful than the 7.1.

A builder told me not to heavily brace the piles, he reckons it is important that the sub floor is well attached, but if it is to rigid it will transfer to much energy to the house above.
I think it will be really important for local authorities to act quickly and learn as much as possible from this event, glad to see Alan Wilson from civil defence in Greymouth on the tele in Christchurch.
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February 26, 2011 2:18pm
cha

If in doubt, google it.

soil liquefaction prevention.
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February 26, 2011 2:27pm
Johnboy

Don’t panic Shunda.

I’ve studied the scenarios for your area and here they are.

http://www.wcrc.govt.nz/Resources/Documents/Publications/Natural%20Hazards%20and%20Lifelines/Regional%20Lifeline%20Study%20Summary.pdf

In simplified terms. “You are Fucked”.

Cheers mate. 🙂
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February 26, 2011 2:38pm
kowtow

I got the impression that the “progressives” here could have been killed in the stampede to condemn the silly,but harmless and easy to ignore Christian fundamentalists and the Homosexual Ski thingy.

Here’s a story with a bit more meat on it and some seriously dangerous fundamentalism at work.

Don’t worry as the fundamentalism is not Christian I don’t think our “progressive” friends will be in any hurry to condemn but no doubt the usual “racist Islamophobes” will crawl out from under their right wing rocks to have a go at the followers of the “religion of peace”.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1360799/Sex-brothels-REAL-tyranny-threatening-Arab-world.html
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February 26, 2011 2:41pm
the bird is the word

I also add my appreciation DemocracyMum. Thanks 🙂
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February 26, 2011 2:43pm
Johnboy

dime will be shattered kowtow! 🙂
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February 26, 2011 2:49pm
democracymum

the bird is the word

Thanks for your appreciation
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February 26, 2011 2:49pm
Shunda barunda

In simplified terms. “You are Fucked”.

Cheers mate. 🙂

Thanks Johnboy (I think?)

Did you really play a part in that study? Thanks for the link, I will read through it very carefully.
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February 26, 2011 2:53pm
Johnboy

I hope you are going to publish it dm.

Its very bloody good. 🙂
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February 26, 2011 2:56pm
Johnboy

Not at all Shunda.

I just know when it is time to kiss my arse goodbye.

(You have to living in Wellington). 🙂
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February 26, 2011 2:59pm
Viking2

The air-driven Tyfon whistle can be heard at least ten miles (16 km) away.[29]

Hopefully they will sound it when they leave.

BETTER NOT OR THEY WILL SHAKE ALL THE CHINA TEA CUPS AT THE BEEHIVE AND THEY WILL NEED TO EVACUATE.
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February 26, 2011 3:02pm
Shunda barunda

Ok, now you are not helping! 🙁

As an aside, Phil u has just discovered that D4J hasn’t made any blog posts since the 21st, is dad ok?
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February 26, 2011 3:04pm
reid

Was in Wellington (Wadestown) earlier this morning – watched the Queen Mary 2 berthing. Absolutely amazing vessel – dwarfs the stadium. Departs 7pm tonight.

What the govt might want to look at doing is chartering one or more large liners and mooring them in Lyttleton if medium-long term accomm is required. I’m not suggesting the Queen Mary BTW.
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February 26, 2011 3:04pm
Johnboy

At this very moment Shunda I suspect that BB is searching for Dad just as a cat searches for its ball of wool. 🙂
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February 26, 2011 3:08pm
Viking2

JiveKitty (838) Says:
February 26th, 2011 at 1:50 pm

Why is there a belief in the general populace of NZ and reflected in government policy that those over a certain age are somehow entitled to money merely because they have reached that age?

Well JK we didn’t make the rules. Just like unions don’t make the law the Govt. has decided what is best for us. Want to change that then change the Govt. I for one am grateful for the money at this time. Had not the GFC happened then I would have not needed it and once we climb out in the next year or so it won’t be so important. Shit happens and shit that you cannot control despite your best plans. Now if taxes had been lower and I hadn’t paid for your and everyones else’s education, your and everyone else’s medical bills and unemployment benefits and working for families and so on,(you get the picture), then I would have been even better off but you and others might not.
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February 26, 2011 3:12pm
democracymum

cheers Johnboy – words don’t seem nearly enough at this time
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February 26, 2011 3:15pm
Viking2

Kiwis comfortable with their early greenhouse scheme

* Rowan Callick, Asia-Pacific editor
* From: The Australian
* February 26, 2011 12:00AM

JULIA Gillard’s visit to New Zealand last week reinforced the empathy with which she has spoken about the tragedy the Christchurch earthquake has wrought.

It also helped stiffen her resolve to introduce an emissions trading scheme. Just as NZ pioneered the wave of privatisations in the late 1980s and 90s, so it has done with an ETS, providing a handy test-bed for Canberra.

The Kiwis introduced their ETS under a conservative government last July in part because they had been expecting Australia to do the same and, since the economies are already so enmeshed, wished to complement what was happening here. But Kevin Rudd pulled the plug on Australia’s plan a year ago following the Copenhagen climate change conference debacle.

Nevertheless, the NZ government led by National Party Prime Minister John Key pressed on and brought into effect a scheme that set a price of $NZ12.50 ($9.40) a tonne of carbon dioxide.

Who said? Nick the nutter I suppose.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/kiwis-comfortable-with-their-early-greenhouse-scheme/story-e6f

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/iron-lady-finds-her-mettle-in-canberra/story-e6frg6n6-1226012244515
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February 26, 2011 3:16pm
Manolo

The once proud United Kingdom roars like a mouse.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/df613ba2-40e1-11e0-9a37-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1F1kVDnBa

UK paying ‘bribes’ to free trapped Britons

Britain has been buying off Libyan officials with hefty additional fees in order to expedite the troubled evacuation of UK nationals, according to senior government figures.

The revelations over the demands for what one senior figure described as “bribes” underlines the problems faced by the government as it oversees a rescue effort that has been criticised as inadequate, poorly co-ordinated and slow.

Speaking in Downing Street after a specially convened meeting of the National Security Council and Cobra emergency planning committee, David Cameron stressed the government was doing “everything we can” to help the 200 British citizens still stranded.

The cabinet has come under intense fire over its efforts to help British nationals, which have been beset by technical problems and a perceived lack of leadership.
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February 26, 2011 3:16pm
Johnboy

Well said V2:

Speaking for myself, as a 61 year old, I am only to happy to suck off Jivekitty’s tit in four years time so I can piss all of her/his hard earned cash up against the nearest wall. 🙂
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February 26, 2011 3:18pm
Johnboy

Shit if the investments come right I might blow the pension money on another boat or 4WD. 🙂
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February 26, 2011 3:21pm
Yvette

Face it Johnboy, mon ami, it will be 67 by the time you are 65 🙁
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February 26, 2011 3:48pm
reid

Meanwhile elsewhere in the world…

TSA searches kids after getting off a train (not boarding, when departing). Look what they do. Not invasive, but you’re searching obviously ordinary American families, like this? What precisely do you expect to find, after the first cursory once-over? But no. Look at it, it’s ridiculous.

Charlie Sheen blows up, his last four shows in this season cancelled
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_people_charlie_sheen

Here’s what he said..
http://jjb.yuku.com/topic/663881

The strange albino heads to Sweden…
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/feb/24/julian-assange-extradition-sweden-verdict

And more on wbankers…
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/feb/24/rbs-bankers-bonuses-despite-loss
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNNFVjBVEtQ&feature=player_embedded#at=225
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February 26, 2011 3:50pm
Johnboy

I hate when you say that Yvette. I was hoping to drink myself to death just before I had to debase myself by going into the WINZ office and reveal all my bad habits.

I will just have to cut down to three bottles a week so I can reach 66 and 99/100ths before I die. 🙂
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February 26, 2011 4:03pm
Jeremy Harris

@Shunda Barunda, I think these quakes have made all NZers a bit nervous, not just those on the fault line or close it… I mean Christchurch was not supposed to be a quake prone city… Here in Auckland (where I’ve lived all my 27 years) we were always a little worried about volcanoes (but not that much) and felt happy about the freedom from a quake threat (I’ve never experienced one of any size) – not anymore… There is a nagging in the back of the head whenever you enter a building or cross a bridge…

I cannot imagine what that feeling is like on, or close to, the fault line and of course in Christchurch itself… We have to raise a lot of money to help out, at times like this parocialism and politics fades and NZ is a brotherhood…
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February 26, 2011 4:10pm
MT_Tinman

Jeremy Harris (269) Says:
February 26th, 2011 at 4:10 pm
@Shunda Barunda, I think these quakes have made all NZers a bit nervous, not just those on the fault line or close it… I mean Christchurch was not supposed to be a quake prone city… Here in Auckland (where I’ve lived all my 27 years) we were always a little worried about volcanoes (but not that much) and felt happy about the freedom from a quake threat (I’ve never experienced one of any size) – not anymore… There is a nagging in the back of the head whenever you enter a building or cross a bridge…

Harden up son.
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February 26, 2011 4:35pm
Don the Kiwi

Jeremy Harris.

Yes, don’t get complacent. There is a hot spot under Auckland city that is being kept hush hush. It is only about 600 years?? since Rangitoto went up, and there is a possibilty this hot spot could erupt any time in the next 100 years or so.

Keep the Beemer warmed up bro.
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February 26, 2011 5:18pm
DJP6-25

democracymum 11:38 Good poem.

cheers

David Prosser
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February 26, 2011 5:46pm
JiveKitty

@Viking2: That might explain why you’re willing to take it, but it doesn’t really answer the question. And placing culpability on the young who have acted rationally in their self-interest and also taken what they can is a little weak given it is older generations which have been doing the shaping of government over the years and they have also had access to many of the government funded programs you mention (and also ones which aren’t mentioned, I’m sure).

I don’t begrudge you taking a pension, nor do I begrudge Johnboy. It is logical and rational to do so. But willingness to accept something which benefits you individually doesn’t explain widespread support for something which is unnecessary, unsustainable and probably detrimental to the long term welfare of the nation.

I’m unlikely to vote this year. No party comes close to reflecting my views. And I don’t believe the system will produce a viable party in terms of changing the composition of government into something more closely aligning with my views until a time far into the future.

I’ve voted for ACT at the last two elections but I have no confidence in them. There’s been a move in the party away from socially liberal values to more conservative values. Economically, they’re possibly still the closest to mine, but even then I’m not sure about that given their stance on some issues. Their disgraceful failure to give Roger Douglas anything resembling a good level of support also did not bode well for the party’s future direction.

On a side note, as for WFF, I do not support it and I will make an effort not to have children until I feel that I can support them comfortably.
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February 26, 2011 5:59pm
democracymum

Thanks David
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February 26, 2011 6:10pm
Ed Snack

Reid, if you must read the gruaniad, at least do some follow up on the stories. The parts of RBS that the workers who received bonuses worked for made excellent profits, the losses came from loan write offs from other parts of the group. Just as well some parts made a profit isn’t it, or the Bank would require even more propping up. Or would you recommend that they don’t pay any bonuses, have the people who make the profits leave, so the bank can make a REALLY BIG loss ?

Another advantage the Graun “forgets” to mention is that the bonus payments are taxed at twice the rate of company profits, so as far as taxes are concerned the bigger the bonuses, the bigger the tax take !

There’s an ignorant envy driven campaign in the UK at teh moment on banks and taxes, they even have put out stories wondering why Barclay’s Bank paid something like 120M tax on a profit of over 1B, without mentioning that they paid hundreds of M in tax last year when they made a loss ! The concept of tax losses carried forward seems quite alien to them.
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February 26, 2011 6:38pm
Viking2

Trouble is JK one night of hanky panky and the wonderous turns of bodily mis function and wow you have a family. And you know many fine people have grown up without a lot of cash in their families. Money doesn’t make your family, you do and your attitudes to them and to others and the everyday interaction in your community.
Life will instill some sense of balance to your thinking in time.

And, if you don’t vote then you have absolutely no right to complain, no matter what. At least if you do vote you can complain.

I have a concern that despite the election date being announced it may be postponed. I know that is not allowed in the rules but if we can cancel a census and donate lottery funds at the govt.’s whim then we can postpone the election. ( months will just about see the CBD in CHCH cleared of rubble. Many people will be disrupted and the Govt. may well be in dire straits financially. We shall see.
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February 26, 2011 8:53pm
reid

Or would you recommend that they don’t pay any bonuses, have the people who make the profits leave, so the bank can make a REALLY BIG loss ?

No, personally were I Cameron, I would have determined to let them fail, or nationalise them with no compensation to the stockholders, if they were worth saving.

He didn’t do that, neither did many other national leaders. What a shame.

It’s not bankers as humans Ed. It’s the system, which requires wholesale and urgent replacement.
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February 26, 2011 9:00pm
paws

SHUT UP im retiring???? soon
JiveKitty (839) Says:

February 26th, 2011 at 1:50 pm
Why is there a belief in the general populace of NZ and reflected in government policy that those over a certain age are somehow entitled to money merely because they have reached that age? If they are unable to work, there are sickness or invalids benefits available. If they can’t find work, there are unemployment benefits available. It’s not as if these payments are forward funded – yes, they’ve paid taxes for years, but by and large they were the recipients of the benefits of the taxes at or not long after the time they paid them and while they will have funded others age-given entitlement, that’s no reason for an age-given entitlement to continue to be given and furthermore, the entitlement is only sustainable with a perpetually growing population (which is not sustainable in and of itself).

That a person can get money merely for being 65 years or older doesn’t make sense to me, seems condescending and implicitly perpetuates the idea that if you are “old” for a given value of old (in this case 65), you aren’t particularly useful to society but society is far to civilised just to do away with you so it funds you instead. Potentially ageism is a problem, yes, but it doesn’t have to be perpetuated as okay.

Also, what’s up with funding spouses of those who are over 65 years old if the person who is over 65 years old decides to include them?
Well JiveKitty slit your wrists ,that will save you from this worry in the future, Pak and Slave have a special RUSH AND BUY

[DPF: 30 demerits]
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February 26, 2011 9:04pm
Viking2

That’s not very nice paws.
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February 26, 2011 9:24pm
reid

Why is there a belief in the general populace of NZ and reflected in government policy that those over a certain age are somehow entitled to money merely because they have reached that age?

Possibly because for generations there has been a policy called National Superannuation which kicks in at a publicly announced age, for everyone.
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February 26, 2011 9:37pm
Inventory2

Paws; you are an arsehole.
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February 26, 2011 10:25pm
Yvette

Johnboy – For several years now, I have cut my drinking down to just one drink pre day
At the moment I am up to July 27, 2019
Je pense que c’est une approche raisonnable, vous devrait l’essayer aussi 🙂
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February 26, 2011 10:39pm
JiveKitty

“if you don’t vote then you have absolutely no right to complain, no matter what. At least if you do vote you can complain”

Never liked that logic either, Viking2. It also doesn’t seem to make sense. I don’t like any of the options, so my vote is effectively worthless (ignoring the fact that my vote is highly unlikely to have a statistical effect), and a key point is that I have made an attempt to be informed and am making an informed decision that I don’t feel particularly represented by anybody. The effort of actually going out and voting versus doing something else is thus outweighed. Particularly as I can even make a civic duty argument that if enough people don’t vote, there will be a suggestion to political parties or those inclined to starting political parties that there is a gap or gaps in the market of ideas that can potentially be filled by somebody/a party who will represent me whereas if I do vote for some party I don’t really support, that suggestion won’t be made and the same old political parties will keep on doing the same old.

And Paws, I can see why you would support superannuation if you are retiring soon. It’s logical to do so, as you’ll have higher income because of it and the long run ramifications of continuing such a policy are unlikely to affect you given you apparently retiring soon. As I said, I don’t begrudge people this kind of thinking. I don’t understand, however, the fact that this kind of short term thinking permeates our political ranks (those who are meant to be looking out for the long run health of the country) as well as the population in general given that a significant proportion of the general population will have to deal with the problems caused by such a policy. At present, I think government superannuation should be phased out – over an extended period, however, so that those who have made significant life decisions based on the reasonable expectation that such a policy will continue will be relatively unaffected while others who will have time to change their circumstances so their life post-65 years will be comfortable can do so. I don’t see what is so outrageous about such an idea.

@Reid: Thank you for the contribution. I think you are correct that to a degree it is because it is the way it has been done for a long time. It would be nice to get people thinking about the issue and not engaging in knee-jerk “anti” reactions because it seems to me, particularly with the baby boomers now reaching the age that this will become a bigger and bigger problem as time goes on and yet it is also one that the government of the day is unwilling to deal with substantively.
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February 27, 2011 12:18am
JiveKitty

Oh, Viking2: “support them comfortably” was not just financially (nonetheless, I can see how the context of the statement suggested that) although that would be a goal (because it’s a prudent step), but also relationship stability, etc. Didn’t exactly grow up in a family flush with cash myself. And as I said, trying to avoid it rather than expecting that I will, although not doing the casual thing that many other single people my age seem to do probably helps in that regard.

I am unimpressed about this lotteries donation business also. Did they amend legislation around that?
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February 27, 2011 12:34am
Offshore_Kiwi

JiveKitty, an alternative to simply not voting, which doesn’t really accomplish much, is the spoiled ballot. There’s quite a lot of talk on one of the other blogs I frequent about a voter’s revolt. The basic idea is that there’s not so much as a bee’s dick of space between the two “main” leftist parties and all the others are either far left loonies or completely, hopelessly compromised. Rather than not vote, if enough of their employers went to their tri-ennial performance review with a “below par” rating it would (might?) send a clear message to our employees that they are basically crap and need to do better. For National, it means re-acquainting itself with its Vision and Values. For Liarbore, it basically means doing whatever their union paymasters tell them. For Winston, Jim Il Sung, the Watermelons and the Apartheid Party, it means they should fuck off out of it.
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February 27, 2011 12:39am
IHStewart

Need advise, can I run a Mac and my PC of a single internet connection ? I have 2 PC’s that are able to connect and today for photographic reasons acquired a Mac it is a few years old and is my work Mac that was retired last year. I upgraded my PC and widows 7 won’t talk to my camera’s . A computer ” expert ” managed to fix my old PC to the point it is now useless but can still connect to the net, to be fair it was failing big time and he just took off every program I loved.

If I can do it should I ring slingshot for help or get if there are any Mac / PC computer people to do it ? My modem can run 4 computers according to the guy who sold it to me but I think he was talking shit looking at the back of it. I have a spare brand new modem ( don”t ask ). any ideas or suggestions would be appreciated
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