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February 22, 2011 8:00am by David Farrar

General Debate 22 February 2011

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General Debate

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Pete George

They were lucky last time with timing, this one probably couldn’t be a worse time for people out and about.
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February 22, 2011 1:19pm
big bruv

Christ I hope nobody has been injured or killed this time, given it is a working day the odds are not good.
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February 22, 2011 1:20pm
RightNow

Herald has the most news at the moment:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10707996
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February 22, 2011 1:26pm
XChequer

That wasn’t a good one, all. We just got “Wangered” down here.
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February 22, 2011 1:27pm
Inventory2

All close family are safe but scared witless. Still trying to account for our staff down there; phone comms are sporadic at best
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February 22, 2011 1:35pm
Ryan Sproull

Twitter photos here: http://hashalbum.com/eqnz
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February 22, 2011 1:39pm
Shunda barunda

Due to the proximity to the city, and the shallow depth this is likely to be worse than the 7.1.
It was a strong shake on the West Coast, was about to jump under the office desk!
This could be a very significant tragedy, I just hope no one was killed.
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February 22, 2011 1:50pm
philu

tvone has terrible footage of damage/people injured…

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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February 22, 2011 1:55pm
RightNow

Herald banner says ‘Fire Service confirms deaths’.
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February 22, 2011 2:04pm
Manolo

New Zealand’s Currency Tumbles After 6.3 Earthquake

The New Zealand dollar dropped after the southern city of Christchurch was affected by an earthquake.

The currency slid 0.8 percent to 75.80 U.S. cents as of 1:11 p.m. in Wellington, the biggest drop in more than a week, from 76.38 cents yesterday in New York.

A 6.3 magnitude temblor was recorded off the south island of New Zealand, the U.S. Geological Survey reported.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-02-22/new-zealand-s-currency-declines-after-christchurch-hit-by-6-3-earthquake.html
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February 22, 2011 2:04pm
RightNow

At least one person has been confirmed dead after after a 6.3 magnitude earthquake in Christchurch caused buildings to collapse and streets to crack and flood this afternoon.

The Fire Service confirmed to Radio New Zealand that there had been “deaths” and to Newstalk ZB that there was at least one dead.

Christchurch resident Jane Smith, who works in the central city, told the Herald a work colleague had just returned from helping rescue efforts after a building facade had collapsed on a bus on Colombo St.

“There’s people dead. He was pulling them out of a bus. Columbo St is completely munted.”

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10707996
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February 22, 2011 2:09pm
philu

tv3 has more comprehensive coverage than one..

they are saying there are multiple fatatlities…

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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February 22, 2011 2:19pm
philu

it’s very distressing to watch..

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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February 22, 2011 2:21pm
philu

parliament has suspended questiontime..

that was the right thing to do..

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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February 22, 2011 2:23pm
XChequer

Oh really, Phool. Fuck up you repressed news presenter wannabe. We’re here. Just fuck off!
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February 22, 2011 2:28pm
philu

buses have been crushed by falling buildings…

..many people trapped in fallen buildings…

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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February 22, 2011 2:41pm
alex Masterley

PUre. sit down and shut up.
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February 22, 2011 2:44pm
RightNow

Dang, and another aftershock now (feeling it in WN)
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February 22, 2011 2:52pm
Pete George

Maori Party cancels Hone Harawira’s membership…

Who cares, there are far more important things to be concerned about. We worry about too much trivial crap.
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February 22, 2011 3:58pm
Manolo

Will it come to pass?

Hone Harawira is likely to be booted out of the Maori Party after a committee deciding his fate recommended to cancel his membership.

The Disciplinary and Disputes committee met yesterday to try and resolve the complaint made by Waiariki MP Te Ururoa Flavell after the Tai Tokerau MP published an article in a Sunday newspaper critical of the cosy relationship his party had with National.
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February 22, 2011 4:48pm
nickb

Thoughts go out to the people of Christchurch, what an awful day.

On another note, did anyone catch a glimpse of the Herald online headlines before the quake hit? One of the most disgraceful pieces of journalism to come out of the tabloid for some time (which is saying something).

It read something like “National recommends chain gangs for unwed single mothers on DPB” when our sap ruling party arent even going to implement any of the reforms.
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February 22, 2011 6:13pm
philu

if the maori party throw out hone..

that makes a national victory all the more problematic…

(more centre-left mp’s…eh..?..he only needs three and a half percent..to bring in five more centre-left mp’s…

..bring it on…!…)

and if the maori party refuse to guarantee their followers that they will not go with national…

..you will see a whole lot of them turning back to labour…or supporting hones’ new party…

..so really…it’s you lot..act (snigger!)..and dunny-brush…(if yr lucky..)..

..i can’t see that reality changing anytime soon..

…it’s not going to be easy for you…

..phil(whoar.co.nz)
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February 22, 2011 6:39pm
Steve

PHOOL,
FUCK OFF

There are far more important things going on than your raving stupidity.
Have the night off, FUCK OFF
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February 22, 2011 7:01pm
immigant

Just read the thread. Wanted to stab my knife into philus decomposing; body. Philu you fuckbag. Saying that cutting the benefit will raise rate of abortion is utter bs. Family planning already gives you all the free rubbers you want. I used them often when making passionate student love in my younger days. So the guvmint has already provided a solution for a problem you just createed.
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February 22, 2011 7:03pm
RightNow

“cutting the benefit will raise rate of abortion” I’ll be straight up. I have no problem with that outcome.
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February 22, 2011 7:27pm
philu

so..immigant…your necrophilliac-knife work desires to one side…

..you reckon that the life of penury of most sole-mothers..

..dosen’t drive women to abort..?

how can it not…?

..got any more than just ‘b.s’..?

(your answers are as non-existant as those from ciaron…)

..and ‘rubbers’..eh..?

..and if they didn’t use rubbers…those babies then deserved to be aborted..?

..what are you saying..?

..i’m having trouble following your logic here…

and you don’t think that potential mothers who knew they wd still have a good/liveable…if not rich..life….

..where they cd study etc..and still be a mum…

..if they went to term…

..would be less inclined to choose abortion…?

..once again…tell us how that is…

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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February 22, 2011 7:31pm
reid

..you reckon that the life of penury of most sole-mothers..

The life of solo ~~mothers~~ parents on the DPB is self-imposed, phil. Other people work, get pregnant, take parental leave, go back to work.

Many of their children get overseas holidays, a great education cause they pay for it, general life experiences that people with a “benefit entitlement” attitude will never be able to give their kids, not because “the system” holds them down, but because they just don’t choose to. They just don’t love their kids enough to give them the very very best of everything, apparently, because other people do this, with or without a Masters degree, all the time.

Just look at the workforce.

These very same children also grow up with absolutely no scars from not having their mum home when they get home from school, either because wise old mum successfully weaned them off that with no side-effects whatsoever.

So which category are you in phil?
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February 22, 2011 8:06pm
Steve

“So which category are you in phil?”
Phool is in the category of ‘take what you can get’ from anyone who will give. LEECH.
A fucking leech, everyone knows Phool is a LEECH but there is no way to stop this until someone grows some balls.
Got that NATIONAL?
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February 22, 2011 8:25pm
philu

i’m actually talking about rightwing christians driving up the abortion rate..

and i have no desire to entertain yet another interminable rave/rant from you on the moral-evils of sole-parents..

..and the wrecked lives of their progeny…

..the groundhog day aspects of it are invariably eye-wateringly boring,,

..and less than 24 hrs ago….you promised you would never address me again..

..try and keep yr word…eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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February 22, 2011 8:25pm
big bruv

“and i have no desire to entertain yet another interminable rave/rant from you on the moral-evils of sole-parents..”

Nothing wrong with single parents, most of them work and set a great example to their kids.

It is the DPB bludgers we cannot stand, especially those who were offered work just yesterday and turned it down.
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February 22, 2011 8:29pm
philu

reid is a rightwing christian…

he ..like the others…obviously has no moral qualms about those abortions he drives….

..i wonder how he marries that with his anti-abortion religious-beliefs..?

..or if he .. like they all seem to….

…is just able to ignore the end-results of their gleeful/sadistic beneficiary-bashing…

..all those aborted babies….

..does spuc actually stand for society for preservation of unconscious christianity….?

..and if they cannot see that obvious abortion cause/effect…

..how blind/dumb are they…?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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February 22, 2011 8:37pm
reid

you promised you would never address me again..

That wasn’t a promise to you phil it was a promise to me but I found your perspectives upon consideration so profoundly in error that I felt compelled to call bullshit.

..i wonder how he marries that with his anti-abortion religious-beliefs..?

Why I can’t recall my ever elucidating my personal position on abortion phil. Perhaps you’d care to enlighten. Of course, if you don’t quote, with at least a link to my post so we can see it in context, then j’accuse liar, tres terrible. Mont blanc.
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February 22, 2011 8:39pm
big bruv

Phool

I used to be uneasy about abortion, and certainly more so after thirteen weeks, I sure as hell do not and could not support late term or partial birth abortion under any circumstances.

Having said that, I now believe that there are nowhere near enough abortions (inside the 13 week mark) in NZ, more of our feral types should be encouraged to have terminations, it is the only way we will stop the trend of scum breeding scum.
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February 22, 2011 8:44pm
philu

well as a rightwing christian..it’s not difficult to guess…

and ok….i will just not address you…

..that’s easy…

..you are very boring/predictable…

…you just say the same thing over and over…

..and that has become tedious..

…have you met fat sibling..?

..why don’t you two chat..

..you have so much in common…

..you are both being ignored..for starters…

,,phil(whoar.co.nz)
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February 22, 2011 8:51pm
reid

…as a rightwing christian

Firstly language is important phil and your choice of language in “right-wing Christian” indicate you think of me more as someone who likes uniforms than someone who realised early on that self-discipline is the key to success. “Traditional” or “Conservative” (as in, wants to conserve) are more accurate.

Is this the same thing as stereotyping you as a typically arrogant green lefty layabout which many on this blog classify you as?

How can we possibli take you seriously phil when you commit the very crimes you so decry?

Oh, the humanity.
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February 22, 2011 9:00pm
philu

so..to summarise:..

the secular rightwingers are all gung-ho for even more abortions..

..(as a social-cleansing-tool…)

..and their christian rightwinger political-buddies …

… are just apparantly blind to the real consequences of their actions/bigotry/stigmatising of sole-parents…

…the christians that love to hate…

..and who drive our world-beating abortion-rates…

..phil(whoar.co.nz)
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February 22, 2011 9:01pm
philu

and note how none of the gutless bastards can stand forward to defend their evils…their irrational bigotry…

..their promotion of abortions…

…normally you mention religion..and you need a stick to beat them off….

..funny that…

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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February 22, 2011 9:08pm
RightNow

phlu, I’m a pragmatist. I’m not promoting abortions, contraception is always a better option, but I realise some people make poor choices and need help sorting their lives out.
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February 22, 2011 9:22pm
Viking2

Talking of abortions and lack thereof.

What really happened when Elton John and David Furnish decided to have a baby.

They had their sperm mixed together and had a surrogate mother artificially inseminated with it. When the baby was born Elton and David were waiting at the hospital. They were ushered into a ward where a dozen babies were lying in their cots, eleven of whom were crying and screaming. Over in the corner, one baby was smiling serenely. A nurse came over to both of them and indicated that the happy child was theirs.

“Isn’t it wonderful?” Elton said to David. “All these unhappy babies ……… and yet our baby is so happy. This just proves the superiority of gay love!”

The nurse said, “Oh sure, he’s happy now, but just watch what happens when I pull the thermometer out of his arse!”
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February 22, 2011 9:48pm
malcolm

Can someone please point me to the final report of the Welfare Working Group? Inexplicably they’ve not put it on their own website where they have the earlier reports:

http://ips.ac.nz/WelfareWorkingGroup/Index.html
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February 22, 2011 10:11pm
malcolm

OK, the report is on there now.
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February 22, 2011 10:19pm
RightNow

What does NZ really need to stimulate the economy? If I was to chip in for 1 hour of someone’s labour each week, then how many kiwis doing the same would it take to subsidise enough jobs to ‘fix’ our economy? And how would we most efficiently handle creating the jobs? Encourage small businesses, cafe’s, rest homes, hospitals etc to simply add extra staff on their payroll? Apprenticeships, start up businesses. I’m sure a pretty good dent could be made in the unemployment level.
Or can’t the problem be fixed with subsidies?
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February 22, 2011 11:29pm
ciaron

# philu (10,509) Says:
February 22nd, 2011 at 1:08 pm

“..# ciaron (477) Says:
February 22nd, 2011 at 12:51 pm

I don’t have to tell you anything. Except that you are wrong…”

so..ciaron..you obviously have no answer to that logical progression…?

..so are you reverting to the bigots’ standard defence…when their faulty logic is challenged..

..and stuffing yr fists in yr ears…and shouting ‘im not listening..!..i’m not listening..!”..

but if you do have a conscience…ciaron….and you listen to it..

…you will know that i am correct..

…that the punitive/stigmatising of sole-mothers you so strongly support….

…is a direct cause of them aborting their babies…

…how can it not be…?

..your silence speaks volumes…

..you know i am speaking the truth..

..and i hope you rest uneasy..

phil(whoar.co.nz)

FUCK YOU CUNT I WAS IN AN EARTHQUAKE.
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February 23, 2011 5:58am
Pete George

Fair enough venting off Ciaron. It highlights how trivial a lot of the bitching is here, petty point scoring that means nothing in the wider scheme of things. We often get obsessed with nonsense – the earthquake brings home the realities of what really matters, lives, families and friends, fear and having a safe place to live. We don’t appreciate enough how lucky we usually are, and we can now see close up how devastating nature can be and real hardship it can deliver.
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February 23, 2011 6:40am
Nookin

Agreed Pete. Normally I do not bother to negotiate Phil’s own peculiar hieroglyphical style but in the light of Ciaron’s rich and eloquent delivery I thought I would look at what it was all about. No-one can deny his passion but over-riding that is the complete lack of logic and offensiveness of his comments. They approach the same degree of obnoxiousness that warranted his last ban. To quote a former King of England ..”who will rid us of this troublesome prick?” or words to that effect.
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February 23, 2011 7:06am
ciaron

Cheers lads.
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February 23, 2011 7:30am
philu

“..No-one can deny his passion but over-riding that is the complete lack of logic ..”

gee..nookin…

how about (calmly/logically) pointing out exactly how my logic in this is flawed…?

you are 18 yrs old…you are pregnant…you know the father is gone…you have little/none family support..

scenario one:…you live in a culture/society where motherhood is valued/supported..

…and every child is given the same opportunities…

scenario two:..you live in a culture where sole mothers are stigmatised/persecuted/forced into penury..

..and heckled for their fecklessness/sluttiness…

now..in which of those two scenarios…do you think that 18 yr old will be more likely to choose to abort her child…?

..this is all i am saying…

..and so..ipso facto…those urging that persecution of sole-mothers….are promoters of abortion..

..how can they not be…?

…so how is that so ‘offensive’…?

..are the stigmatisers/beneficiary-bashers/abortion-promoters ‘offended’ ..?

..fucken good…!

..maybe they will start thinking beyond their wallets…eh..?

..and start being real ‘christians’…

..cos’ now they are just a vile mockery of the beliefs they purport to hold…eh..?

(…and babies separated from their mothers at 14 weeks…?..eh..?

..this is what that cold-blooded cow rebstock is recommending…

..and this is what the results of the ‘works’ of you ‘christians’ is..

..you make my fucken skin crawl..

..you sick fucken greed-driven fucken hypocrites..

..eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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February 23, 2011 7:38am
ciaron

JUST SHUT THE FUCK UP CUNT.
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February 23, 2011 7:42am
philu

no..i fucken won’t shut up..

how about you think what a screaming hypocritical abortion-promoter you are..?

..’christian’..my arse…!

you are a reactionary bigoted hypocrite…..

..nothing more

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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February 23, 2011 7:46am
Nookin

Phil.
You do not know me and you know nothing about my politics, religious, ethical and moral beliefs. They are my beliefs and I am comfortable living by them. I do not preach them to others and I do not have to explain them or justifiy them to you. One thing that I will explain to you is this: You have no right whatsover to make any assumption about any views that I hold about abortion and how or even whether I consider it in the context of so-called Christian beliefs. You have no justification for saying that I am greed driven or hypocritical. I have not and do not intend to get into this debate in this forum.

Your lack of logic is more than adequately demonstrated in that because I have criticised your reasoning vis-a-vis ciaron I am a “sick fucken greed-driven fucken hypocrite…”
If your skin is crawling Phil it is more likely to be substance driven because absolutely nothing I said justified your nasty little diatribe.
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February 23, 2011 7:58am
Falafulu Fisi

Ciaron said…
FUCK YOU CUNT I WAS IN AN EARTHQUAKE.

Ciaron, Phil hasn’t seen one in ages. He only visits Susan right-hand and Mandy left-hand every night. I bet that he’s got calluses on his palms as a result of those regular visits to Susan and Mandy.
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February 23, 2011 8:02am
Manolo

I guess more than enough of us have had a gutsful of the despicable behaviour from the parasite and bludger that lurks around here.

Personally, I RIPped the louse long ago, but from others’ responses I’m inclined to write to DPF asking him to put a stop to his disruptive actions. Enough.
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February 23, 2011 8:06am
big bruv

Come on DPF, Phool the parasite is clearly trolling, given the events of the last 24 hours I would suggest that his actions are more despicable than normal.

Please ban the prick for good.
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February 23, 2011 8:10am
Lance

I agree
Even on RIP Philu is screwing up just about every thread. Reducing quality debate to his debased drivel
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February 23, 2011 8:13am
MT_Tinman

Folks I will be out and about in my 6 passenger Previa taxi.

If anyone needs transport help that I can provide telephone me 027 4931951.

Payment will be optional.
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February 23, 2011 8:25am
philu

“..You have no right whatsover to make any assumption about any views that I hold about abortion and how or even whether I consider it in the context of so-called Christian beliefs…”

well..no need to really go inside your head…

…if you support the stigmatising/targeting of sole parents…

..no matter what internal loop-de-loops you may do to reconcile/justify that..

…you are a promoter of abortions..

..it’s as simple as that..

..how can it not be..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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February 23, 2011 8:33am
alex Masterley

Tinman, good luck out there.
Best wishes.
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February 23, 2011 8:34am
philu

“..Reducing quality debate ..”

heh..!

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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February 23, 2011 8:37am
big bruv

Good man Tinny, stay safe mate.
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February 23, 2011 8:48am
Nookin

…if you support the stigmatising/targeting of sole parents…

Now Phil – point me to the comment that I made and which supports that conclusion.
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February 23, 2011 8:53am
bhudson

phil,

It pains me to even bother responding to your inanities, but I will nonetheless.

Your logic is fundamentally warped.

If, as you claim, that a change to DPB that would require mothers to go back to work when the first child is 3 will drive up the rate of abortions, then what you are really saying is that those same mothers only get pregnant (under the current regime) for the money.

Is that your claim phil; that women use the DPB today for a lifestyle?
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February 23, 2011 8:53am
philu

wow..!..that’s quite the logic-leap you have done there hudson….

..nice strawman..!

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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February 23, 2011 9:02am
philu

i’m not going to play yr silly game nookin…

do you…or do you not..support the current targeting of sole-parents..?

answer yr own question..

or..wd you ‘rather not say’..?

..and if you wd ‘rather not say’…

..what are you doing here..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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February 23, 2011 9:05am
philu

“..They approach the same degree of obnoxiousness that warranted his last ban…”

nookin..what exactly is ‘obnoxious’ about making the welfare-rates/societal attitudes to sole-mothers connection to our world-beating abortion rates..?

is it ‘obnoxious’ because it makes you think of that connection..?

..and the part you play..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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February 23, 2011 9:11am
Nookin

What part of “I have not and do not intend to get into this debate in this forum” do you not understand Phillip?
What am I doing here?
1. You are not the hub of this Blog despite your aspirations to be so. I read other comments.
2. I debate to learn and inform. I learn nothing from you and you are beyond learning.
3. I chose not to debate abortion on a blogsite. Fuck you for suggesting that I do not have that right.
4. I do not regard responding to acrimonious and unjustified criticism as playing silly games.
5. I do not subscribe to your theory that because I do not express support for your views then I am opposed to them and am therefore evil. Because you are bigotted enough to hold those views then I do not intend engaging with you.
Clear enough? Now fuck off!
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February 23, 2011 9:22am
RightNow

Aren’t the Democrats quickly turning their name into an oxymoron!? Now Democrats have fled Indiana, like their Wisconsin namesakes, in order to stymie the democratic process. I hear next year Obama’s campaign slogan will be “Yes We Ran”.
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February 23, 2011 9:53am

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PO Box 12270, Thorndon, Wellington 6144

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