General Debate 21 February 2011

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philu

to pentwig i wd note that i am not trying to be all things to all people..

and i have big cannabis/vegan archives…and do those stories as they happen…

tho’ ..with help/format update…i wd cast the net wider…

and i dunno about ‘extreme left wing’…i highlight progressive writings/opinions…

..they don’t get much sunlight in new zealand..

and also i have always aimed for a global audience…

and the audience for quality writiing/analysis is out there..

..and a desire for someone to find it for them…

..so they can get their daily dose in one package..

plus i think my grab is quite catholic..

..i do film/music/art/humour/cartoons/w.h.y…

..a 100% dry/dusty polemic-site…wd bore me rigid…

..also…the plan has always been for multi-media..

things like talkshows are cheap as chips to make…as just one example..

whoar will be a multi-media beast..

and that ‘little face’ done by chris knox..

will become very well known/loved..

..and most importantly…trusted…

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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February 21, 2011 9:08pm
Viking2

Not at the rate you are going Phil.
Takes more than a wild imagination. That is the idea but you still have to make it work and then you make $.
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February 21, 2011 9:12pm
reid

You twerp.

Bereal I’m surprised with the power of the entire internet at your keyboard this is the best adjective you could come up with to describe phil.

I’m kinda sick of talking about phil, frankly.

What about Key’s admission he mishandled the cars. Isn’t that unusual, and somewhat refreshing and almost unprecedented to see a leader the PM none the less admit a mistake in public. Very significant. Quite took the wind out of Liarbore’s sails. Aw. And Radio Left Wing was all set to hammer it again as well. Hope Geoff and Simon don’t have to radically re-engineer overnight. Awwww.
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February 21, 2011 9:12pm
Viking2

PRIVILEGE

“The face he showed to the country this week was that of a man who didn’t give a stuff what people thought. It may be one that his colleagues and National supporters hope he will not be revealing too often.” Herald Editorial on John Key, Sunday 20 February, 2011

Is John Key a man of his word, or simply a man of words? That is a question many are beginning to ask as finally the electorate’s love affair with what was an image of hope is starting to tire.

The image of the Prime Minister is a crucial issue for the National Party as it faces an election in nine months time. He is after all their greatest and perhaps only asset. But in politics, as in life, actions speak louder than words, and if the public ever get a hint that they are being treated like fools or taken for granted there will be a backlash – which could cost National the election, and a number of National’s electorate MPs their jobs.

Over the last week the shadows of doubt have appeared. TVNZ has caught the Prime Minister out over the embarrassing new fleet of BMWs. Thirty-four $200,000 cars that come complete with four-zone air conditioning, massaging seats, sixteen high-performance speakers, monitors and DVD players, an internet portal, automatic doors, and voice recognition starting. At the time John Key feigned innocence: “I can’t take responsibility for a contract that was entered into by the previous Labour Government, that wasn’t brought to my attention or to my ministers’ attention.”

It was later found to be untrue. Not only was the National government responsible for the deal, but John Key had known about the cars all along having been taken out in one last April for a test drive!

How the government could even contemplate doing a deal on such cars in this economic climate is almost incomprehensible. When the whole country is feeling the pain of recession, it is galling to see our elected VIPs even thinking that opulence is acceptable. It is very bad form, made worse by the Prime Minister’s lies – Cabinet Ministers have been sacked for less.

John Key is lucky that the Parliamentary opposition has not been able to capitalise on this issue because it was Labour who bought the BMWs in the first place, and few parties in parliament are able to claim a moral high ground when it comes to the spending of taxpayers’ funds.

But self-indulgence and BMWs is not the only question mark hanging over the Prime Minister’s integrity. Back in March of 2010 when he announced the review of the 2004 Foreshore and Seabed Act, John Key explained that he was not prepared to push through a law change unless the wider public were in support. The New Zealand Press Association reported it at the time in this way: “A discussion document released today said the Government preferred to declare the foreshore to be public domain, but reassert the right of Maori to seek modified customary title through the courts. Mr Key said the public domain concept was a pragmatic way to heal a ‘weeping sore’, but if there was not wide support then the current law could remain in place. The intent here is to put this issue to bed in a satisfactory way to the bulk of New Zealanders…”

The review of the 2004 Foreshore and Seabed Act was driven by the Maori Party’s confidence and supply agreement with National. It mandated a review only, not a law change. Astonishingly, National suppressed the results of that review for 6 months to hide the fact that the public were overwhelmingly opposed to a law change. 77 percent of the 1500 submitters wanted the present Foreshore and Seabed Act to remain in place, while 91 percent were opposed to the planned Marine and Coastal Area Bill.

If John Key had intended to keep his promise, he should have dropped any idea of changing the law at that stage. But he pressed on.

The Maori Affairs Select Committee received 5,794 written submissions on the Marine and Coastal Area Bill. Most were opposed to the bill with an astounding 97 percent of oral submissions being opposed to the Bill as it stands. National cannot ‘spin’ these results: almost no-one who has examined National’s law change wants it – neither Maori nor non-Maori. As a matter of trust, John Key is under an obligation to the people of New Zealand to honour his promise and leave the present law in place.

Having been caught out lying over BMWs is something that is likely to be soon forgotten. Going back on his word over his planned race-based carve-up of New Zealand’s beaches and Territorial Sea is a far more serious and enduring matter for National.

Without a doubt, as more people realise what is going on, National’s favour with the electorate will drop. We have already seen National party support fall 5 percent in the most recent poll, and we know that many former National supporters are so angry about National’s increasingly close liaison with the Maori Party that they have stopped donating to the Party and vowed not to vote for them again.

This view is reflected in the article Polls, MMP, and the ‘Bugger Off’ Factor by this week’s NZCPR Guest Commentator Professor Roger Bowden, who states, “I suspect that there are many former National Party voters who are deeply troubled by damaging outcomes like the foreshore and seabed legislation, or dismayed by the dishonesty of the political process involved.” To read the article, click the sidebar link>>>

Already a number of parties are lining up to campaign on repealing the Marine and Coastal Area Bill if it is passed into law, and Winston Peters will no doubt use it as a platform to expose National’s weaknesses and relaunch his party. Certainly the Coastal Coalition intends fighting against politicians who want to trade away our coastline so they can stay in office.

While John Key and the architect of the Marine and Coastal Area Bill, Chris Finlayson, have turned a blind eye to the discontent that is fermenting around the country, some members of National have been left exposed. It is they, not those in the upper echelons of the party list that will end up paying the price.

New Zealand’s Parliament is made up of 122 Members, 58 from National, 42 from Labour, 9 from the Greens, 5 from the Maori Party, 5 from ACT, 1 from United Future, 1 from Jim Anderton’s Progressive Party, and 1 independent – former Labour MP Chris Carter.

There are 63 general electorate seats around the country: 41 are held by National, 18 by Labour, and 1 each by ACT, United, Progressives and Chris Carter. There are 7 Maori seats, 5 of which are held by the Maori Party, and two by Labour. Of the Maori Party seats, Rahui Katene in Te Tai Tonga has the smallest majority at 1,049.

Of National’s 41 electorate seats, 9 had been held by Labour in 2002 and 2005, but had swung to National in 2008. If there is a swing away from National in November, some of those MPs will lose their seats – unless they have made a name for themselves fighting for the voters who elected them into office. Jonathan Young in the seat of New Plymouth has the lowest National majority of 105 votes. Next is Paula Bennett in Waitakere with a 632 majority, followed by Chris Auchinvole in West Coast/Tasman with 971, Nathan Guy in Otaki with 1354, Nikki Kaye in Auckland Central with 1497, Tim Macindoe in Hamilton West with 1618, Peseta Sam Lotu-liga in Maungakiekie with 1942, Todd McClay in Rotorua with 5065, and Louise Upston in Taupo with 6445.

In addition, Peter Dunne is in an especially precarious position with his majority in the Ohariu seat sliding from 12,543 in 2002, to 7,702 in 2005, to 1,006 at the last election. His support for the Marine and Coastal Area Bill is likely to see him tossed out of Parliament – the end of the United Future Party.

What we can conclude from the current polls is that National’s support is declining, and those lost votes are being dispersed across all other parties. I have no doubt the only thing propping up National’s support is the lack of alternatives. Labour has simply not been able to lift its game to seize the moment; it seems its own transgressions are still too fresh in voter memories, and its leadership is no match for John Key on the charisma scale.

John Key has already stated that he does not intend to stay in the job for the long haul. If he loses the election he will move on to other things. That means he will not have to suffer the consequences of his divisive law changes.

While events in the Middle East beam out from our televisions as sobering reminders of what happens when political leaders lose touch with the hopes and aspirations of voters, we can be relieved that we live in a peaceful democracy. However, more and more people are saying that it feels like we have a parliamentary dictatorship between elections. Electorate MPs are on the frontline of voter opinion and a number of current National Party MPs in marginal seats will be reflecting on that come 26 November. I wonder if their reflections will include wondering whether they should have spoken out against the Marine and Coastal Area Bill while they had the chance instead of passively toeing the party line.

Last week’s fiasco over those luxury BMWs should serve as a warning that National has lost sight of the pressures being faced by real New Zealand. They were voted in on a wave of hope. New Zealanders wanted a prime minister and a government that listened – one that would create an economic environment that enabled people to get on and achieve their life’s aspirations. They didn’t vote for political back room deals to create Maori privilege and nor did they vote for MPs to grant themselves the privilege of thirty-four luxury BMWs.

http://www.nzcpr.com/
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February 21, 2011 9:13pm
bereal

on a lighter note
here is one for Luc.

Mohammed takes his daughter to the doctor.
The doctor asks, ‘Is she sexually active Mohammed ?’
Mohammed replies, ‘Nah, she just lies there, same as her mother does.’
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February 21, 2011 9:13pm
bereal

reid
Yeah your right, i’ve had a gutsfull myself. He just makes me want to puke though.
i’ll give it a rest now.
“Twerp.” is spot on for philu but , google it.
i think it could be a noun.
G’nite.
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February 21, 2011 9:21pm
philu

reid..i have always been on the dpb because i had to raise my boy..

..that is now just about done and dusted…

..and as i have been doing whoar for these years…

..and as it meshes with my qualifications/experience..

..and as i knew when i started that the aggregation model was for the future..

..i knew i just had to plug away until that time was right..

..and that time is now right..

(anecdote:..when i started whoar…the boy and i lived in a warehouse space in albert st..

..opposite the herald…

..so i used to sit there doing whoar…and metaphorically shaking my fist out the window at the behemoth…

..and hollering that one day i was going to take that bastard down…

..it amazed me then…and amazes me now…

..that so many people…produce so little…

..i used to look at their product..

..look across at the heaving behemoth..

..and wonder what the fuck they all did all day..

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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February 21, 2011 9:23pm
big bruv

reid

“I’m kinda sick of talking about phil, frankly.”

And that is how Phool would like it, all the talk about BMW’s and Ruth Dyson mean very little when the biggest problem this nation faces is the huge number of parasites and bludgers like Phool.

This is exactly how Labour and the Greens want us to react, they want us to shrug our shoulders and keep handing over our hard EARNED money to these bludgers, meanwhile we have kids growing up who think it is normal that dad is stoned out of his increasingly smaller brain every day and that the ‘government’ will pay you to stay at home doing nothing.

Forget MP’s travel, forget about who lied to who and all the rest of the bullshit, the number one problem facing this nation is our out of date and out of touch Welfare system, we simply cannot allow the left to convince us that the status quo is inevitable and acceptable, plainly it is not.
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February 21, 2011 9:24pm
mike tan

blah blah blah it’s not my fault that i have had to live off your money blah blah blah
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February 21, 2011 9:24pm
big bruv

“i have always been on the dpb because i had to raise my boy..”

Bullshit!..thousands of other single parents manage to do the same as you while holding down a job, stop making excuses for your lifestyle choice Phool.

“..it amazed me then…and amazes me now…

..that so many people…produce so little…”

Says the parasite who produces absolutely nothing of value 365 days a year.
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February 21, 2011 9:25pm
reid

phil your problem is you don’t want to understand busi-ness principles.

I suspect I know why but I don’t give a fuck about thinking further about it cause this is the essence of success. It’s not evil, it’s not selfish, it’s not trampling over other people, it’s nothing that you appear to imagine it, to be, if you were to attempt to get there.

For you see phil, there are as many paths to it, as there are people. You attain your own success amongst men however, only by giving more than you take. This is where it’s not quite working mate.

And phil, this is the last time I respond to anything you say, which surrounds your fucked lefty thinking on just about every subject under the sun. I know you understand my perspective, in detail. You’re just being disingenuous, most of the time. Duh.

So either start addressing what I say directly and engage me not obfuscate, or fuck off. Prove to me phil, you actually do have a masters.
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February 21, 2011 9:38pm
Hurf Durf

Another slice of delusion/wishful thinking (take your pick) from Martyn “Dickhead” Bradbury.

the left may lose the election, that’s always a possibility but sweet christ, we’re not pricks like you.

Dohohohohohoho!
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February 21, 2011 9:40pm
philu

right ho reid…off ya go then..eh..?

and if at any time in the future you plan on giving someone advice you hope/expect to be thanked for…

..maybe try not to leaven it with abuse…eh..?

i’ll give you that one for free…

and degree details available online at auckland university…

and please..don’t address me again..eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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February 21, 2011 9:41pm
reid

This is how to do it people.

P.S. Phil, your lefty thinking is fucked. You’re not fucked. It’s your lefty thinking.

phil, I’m not playing. Change your thinking.
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February 21, 2011 9:45pm
philu

you promised you wouldn’t speak to me again…

that lasted all of seven minutes…

try harder…

..eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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February 21, 2011 9:59pm
Yvette

Philu – 9.23 pm

(anecdote:..when i started whoar…the boy and i lived in a warehouse space in albert st..

..opposite the herald…

..so i used to sit there doing whoar…and metaphorically shaking my fist out the window at the behemoth…

..and hollering that one day i was going to take that bastard down…

..it amazed me then…and amazes me now…

..that so many people…produce so little…

..i used to look at their product..

..look across at the heaving behemoth..

..and wonder what the fuck they all did all day..

And now an Aggregation of the Great Aggregator –

An anecdote:
When I started WHOAR, the Boy and I lived in a warehouse space in Albert Street, opposite the Herald. So I used to sit there doing WHOAR and metaphorically shaking my fist out the window at the Behemoth and hollering that one day I was going to take that bastard down. It amazed me then, and amazes me now, that so many people produce so little.
I used to look at their product, look across at the heaving Behemoth and wonder what the fuck they all did all day.

Spot the difference Philu. You are going to have to change your style if you are going to fit all your shit in Apps for those little iPod screens.
The Great Aggregator is going to need an equally Great Shit Shaper

At least you are now beating the Behemoth by stealing their stuff, and stuff.co’s stuff, and re-spreading it.
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February 21, 2011 10:22pm
philu

i’m not stealing their stuff..

i only highlight a paragraph…

..and i send readers to them…

..i don’t take readers from them..

..that’s the aggregation-model..

..eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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February 21, 2011 10:26pm
pentwig

philu

Listen carefully as I will say this only once.

If I was running a news aggregation service for the busy people of the world (they have to be your target audience as they have the means to pay) it has to be topical.

Take today for instance. People are talking about the BMWs and the Middle East. I would source the very best I could find from both sides of the argument and condense them into a neutral article. I would endeavour not to show bias and I would NEVER EVER proffer an opinion.
To give an opinion means you are going to lose clients. When you are in business you are in the business of making money no matter how repugnant you may find it.
Everybody in the money making business have to do things they dislike. Shoe salesperson fitting smelly feet, prostitute servicing a client with obesity and bad breath. You get the picture. But the client is your bread and butter and is always right.
Leave opinion to the editors of newspapers. Let your clients form their own opinion and in a balanced article the will.
Do not show your natural leftie thinking or you will lose the clients on the right. Same as progressive/liberal. Be unbiased.
Put in the correct ingredients, mix it right and you should have an award winning cake. As it stands you don’t, as your blog figures show.
That is my offering in black and white. you will answer in red and yellow and I have probably wasted 10 minutes.
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February 21, 2011 10:42pm
Gooner

I’m probably going to be called a traitor or a fuckwit or something similar for this, but I’ve met Phil’s son, and he is a very well mannered, polite, well-presented nice young man. At least he was in 2005 (or so) when I met him.

So lots of people here give Phil a hard time about his bludging, but he has raised a decent kid, at least it appeared to me as if he had.

You owe me one Phil.

Fire off the abuse.
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February 21, 2011 10:45pm
Luc Hansen

reid and Mike Tan

As I have said before, I’ve wasted too much time chasing down deniers nonsense to bother now. There are plenty of sites that can do it much better than I ever could – eg hot_topic, Skeptical Science, Real Climate and, of course, James Hansen’s home page.

As James Hansen said in a recent talk (I’ll post the link tomorrow if I remember), NASA place all their data on their website and if someone could come up with an alternative explanation, they would be famous. They would win a Nobel Prize.

And you guys change your tunes as each denialist argument is closed down. First, the planet’s not warming. OK, it’s warming, but it not CO2. Ok, it’s CO2 but…

Which is your favouite, guys?

Come on Mike, show us your superiority – go to Gavin Schmidt and argue with him! Or even our own Martin Manning. What are you, man or mouse? I suspect I know the answer.

There are some people who just can’t face up to facts, especially when those facts imply a degree of responsibility for some appalling consequences, even occurring as we post.

I call it the Ricky Fitts syndrome.

And a symptom is Occam’s Broom – sweeping inconvenient truths under the carpet.

My energies are heading into letting our kids know what environment what they will inherit from us, and how they can salvage something from the mess. And it’s not just a hot planet we are bequeathing them

All is not lost, and even if it is, they will still have to cope.
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February 21, 2011 10:48pm
philu

chrs gooner..

he’s even better now…

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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February 21, 2011 10:50pm
reid

reid and Mike Tan

Luc how about these guys

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100058265/us-physics-professor-global-warming-is-the-greatest-and-most-successful-pseudoscientific-fraud-i-have-seen-in-my-long-life/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkGrmrpbaCE

Personally, my energies are heading into letting our kids know what bullshit the enviwonmentalists pwopaganda is and to never ever believe them ever lest their evil poison turn one into a cane toad.
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February 21, 2011 11:10pm
philu

pentwig…

http://whoar.co.nz/?s=libertarian

the second story down is a profile of peter thiel..

don’t say i don’t get around…

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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February 21, 2011 11:22pm
Fisiani

http://www.roymorgan.com/news/polls/2011/4631/
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February 22, 2011 12:07am
bereal

philu
you’ve been had like a dogs breakfast by many people today.
You’ve made an even bigger laughable prick of your self than usual.
Ever heard of. “by their fruits ye shall know them ”
Well we know you, you bludging POS
No fruits, no nothing, unless you count indolence, arrogance, smart alecness, drug addiction, envy.
Seems some people on this blogsite actually feel sorry for you, but nowhere near as sorry as you
must feelfor yourself.
Life has delt you a hand like a foot hasnt it darling, its not your fault
others had so much more advantage than you , you poor sad sack.
you twerp.
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February 22, 2011 12:11am
pentwig

phil

That is a very interesting interview. Thought provoking. I rate it highly.
If you ran your blog with that kind article and left out your personal ideology it would be on my must read list.
99.9% of the people do not want to read about vegans or cannabis or biased material.

You have a winner but get the right formula.

ps Tiels education bubble theory has me buzzing.
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February 22, 2011 12:48am
pentwig

phil

Just a thought

It is very evident that you have a passion for veganism, animal welfare, cannabis etc.

Why not create a second blog for your ideologies and develop whoar as dedicated commercial unit.
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February 22, 2011 12:57am
philu

pentwig..

out of 44,000 stories/links…only about 1600 are vegan…

btw..did you like the 24 different types of libertarians cartoon-strip..?..

and my morning has started well…

business telly is reporting on-line advertising rose 23% lat year..

and is expected to rise another 25% this year..

..it has now overtaken radio..

..and is third behind print and television..

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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February 22, 2011 6:43am
Pete George

David Garrett seems to be speaking his mind a bit these days:

On his Twitter account, TV3 political reporter Patrick Gower said Mr Garrett had walked up to Mr Harawira and called him a “racist hater” before asking if he was “enjoying the scrutiny”.

Mr Gower tweeted that Mr Garrett then sarcastically added “couldn’t happen to a nicer guy”.

There could be a bit of bitter payback involved, but it was obviously quite public and will add to the conflicted esteem of his mother and electorate support versus the wider population. It’s a shame, Harawira could have been a good alternative MP, but his feelings of importance seemed to outgrow his actual importance and he let it get out of control.
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February 22, 2011 7:31am
Manolo

.. Phil has raised a decent kid,..

Impossible! If the kid has come up fine (and I wish the young lad the best), is due to his own efforts. Not because of his “father”, who is idleness personified, an accomplished bludger, and parasite second to none.

A parent like him would be a deleterious influence on the live of any aspiring young boy.

What can a youngster learn from someone who sits all day in front of a computer and does not contribute to society in any way? Nothing at all.
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February 22, 2011 7:38am
Manolo

Another of those brave actions from decisive John Key (it must be election year).
The bludgers will be with us until the money runs out.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10707836

The Government has ruled out cutting payments to people on the dole.

The Welfare Working Group’s final report will be released tomorrow, giving the Government possible solutions to long-term dole dependency.

Prime Minister John Key today said the Government would not consider reductions to main benefit levels, including the sickness, invalid’s, unemployment and domestic purposes benefits.
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February 22, 2011 7:44am
Manolo

John Key was lying when he denied any previous knowledge of the matter.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/4685518/PM-signed-papers-relating-to-BMWs

PM signed papers relating to BMWs

Prime Minister John Key signed four documents that referred to a deal to buy a fleet of luxury cars – and at least three other ministers were briefed, documents reveal.

Mr Key – who is responsible for Ministerial Services – says he was in the dark about the deal until a conversation with his driver two weeks ago. But an embarrassing paper trail, dating back to 2009, and issued yesterday by the Government shows there were a series of documents referencing the deal.

And in July last year his chief of staff Wayne Eagleson met the manager of VIP Transport Service, Geoff Knighton, to discuss the renewal of a contract with BMW to supply 34 new cars.

Mr Key said he was “not going to make excuses” and acknowledged “the matter should have been handled better by everybody, including myself”.
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February 22, 2011 7:50am

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