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February 6, 2011 1:05pm by David Farrar

Cartoon of the Day

An original, sent in by a reader. Very good.

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Comment42

International Politics
cartoons

Comments (42)

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TimG_Oz

Keith Locke on Frogblog has this typical false complaint about National apparently supporting a dictator

http://blog.greens.org.nz/2011/02/03/key-lets-down-the-egyptian-people/

Seriously – if Mubarak is handing over power, then wouldn’t make sense for him to hand over in an organised fashion, rather than rushing off and leaving a power vacuum, which makes the country really unstable?

I saw a report on the news today which states that most Egyptians see that the job is done, and now want to return to their lives without the chaos of the last fortnight
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February 6, 2011 1:13pm
Redbaiter

Good is a matter of opinion so I will give mine. This is not good. It is pathetic and weak in that it only skims the surface of what is happening in Egypt and attempts to gain a cheap laugh only from the apparent gross ignorance of the artist who drew it. I’m surprised you thought it worthy of publishing.

You do realise that Mubarak has been one of the main protectors of Israel in the Middle east region? You do realise the implications for Israel if the Muslim Brotherhood gains power?

To portray what is happening in Egypt as Mubarak against “the people and democracy” is just facile.

(On second thoughts, maybe its not ignorance. I suspect a deliberate attempt to mislead.)

Here too is some food for thought-

http://truebluenz.wordpress.com/2011/02/04/general-debate-040211/
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February 6, 2011 1:26pm
adze

So, the artist thinks the people are dung beetles? Perhaps an off-hand way of praising the lofty aim of getting rid of a 30-year dictactorship as pushing shit uphill 😛
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February 6, 2011 1:28pm
paws

Yep the muslim brotherhood enlightened (women are there for raping and stoning)the muslims will rage and hate and with irans help the muslims will attack ISRAEL if ISRAEL thinks its losing ,ISRAEL will say we are stuffed use ALL THE NUKES and then we will join the new mayor(im trying to get the wakas back I wont use the police) after a good round of pole dancing we will all be on bikes cycling and heading towards the dark ages with no kiwiblog.
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February 6, 2011 1:37pm
iMP

RedB., since when were cartoons anything other than “cheap laughs” and “a skim over the surface,” to lighten our day? or have I missed something all these years. Too many years watching M.A.S.H and laughing at the Korean War I suppose.
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February 6, 2011 2:13pm
kowtow

This cartoon proves the biblical Judeo Christian nature of our society.

I note the demonstrators are being portrayed as “pro democracy” by the MSM. I would call them anti regime rather than pro democracy.
A gas pipe line to Israel has been blown up. A sign of things to come?
Al Jazeera are pushing this very hard,what’s behind that?
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February 6, 2011 2:36pm
joana

I agree with Redbaiter..facile.
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February 6, 2011 3:09pm
iMP

Wasn’t one of the Plagues of Egypt: Boils, Hail Stones, and ….”Nats”?
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February 6, 2011 4:04pm
Mr Robert Black

For God’s sake masterbaiter, stop spamming your website, any comment you make, credible for a change, is destroyed by your unashamed sluttiness.

OK, we know you have a website, Kiwiblog allows that link on your name.
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February 6, 2011 4:12pm
nasska

iMP @ 4.04pm

I’ve always looked upon cartoons as a powerful means of presenting a political point of view. Tom Scott although an out & out socialist has always provoked thought. What about the cartoonist who Hitler wanted hung drawn & quartered? Cartoonists seem to be able to go where orators or authors would fairly fear to tread.

As an aside I see the Egyptian rioting as a prelude to a Muslim takeover probably similar to that in Iran. The only difference I can see is that under the “dictator” people were relatively free to call for his departure. Try that in a Muslim theocracy & enough rock will be thrown at you to build a four lane highway from Cairo to Tehran.

I reckon we are witnessing the setting of the sun in the Golden Crescent & a dawn may be many years down the track.
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February 6, 2011 5:23pm
bc

I think the cartoon is pretty good.
Yes, scarab beetles are dung beetles, but they were worshipped by the ancient Egyptians.
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February 6, 2011 5:29pm
iMP

Ironically i see we’re about to scarabs in NZ, imported from Aust., to process dairy farm cow dung.
That cartoonist the nazi’s were after was David Low, actually a NZer (frm Chch) cartooning in UK during the war.
Muslim extremists don’t like cartoonists either.
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February 6, 2011 5:52pm
Luc Hansen

The terminology of the cartoon is interesting, given that John McCain has referred to the pan-Arab pro-democracy grassroots movement as a “virus” that needs to be countered. I guess it’s times like these that true Democrats stand up to be counted. McCain remains seated.

The Arab world is finally emerging from the post WW II oppression enforced on them by the western powers who were desperate to kill the Arab desire for one great Arab state. The preferred method was a dictator of (western) choice, later supplemented by the overwhelming military power gifted to the last of the great European colonial projects, Israel.

Although I have yet to see any evidence that the US is going to take it’s foot of the throat of the ordinary people of Egypt anytime soon, it’s entirely possible that events will overwhelm its preferred option of a new, Our Kind of Guy, dictator.

I certainly hope so.

To deny the right of self-determination to be finally realised by Arabs just to allow Israel to continue to threaten the whole region with nuclear immolation is obscene.

What Israel needs to do is to learn how to behave coperatively in the region, and part of that is the need to fully implement the consensus two-state solution to its Palestinian population or face the probability sometime of a determined, sustained, non-violent campaign for civil rights that will see Israel’s Europeans forced to concede.

The frothy-mouthed ravings of Islamophobes everywhere would be ridiculous if it wasn’t for the fact that these Western Christian Mullahs currently possess awesome powers that have so far proved triumphant, to the detriment of hundreds of millions, if not billions, of people all over the globe.
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February 6, 2011 6:35pm
joana

The oppression they have experienced is absolutely nothing compared to that which is coming their way.
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February 6, 2011 6:50pm
bc

What I find amusing is that some people, including John Key, seem to prefer a dictatorship over democracy because the dictator is a friend of Israel.
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February 6, 2011 6:52pm
nasska

Luc Hansen @ 6.35pm.

“The frothy-mouthed ravings of Islamophobes everywhere would be ridiculous if it wasn’t for the fact that these Western Christian Mullahs currently possess awesome powers that have so far proved triumphant, to the detriment of hundreds of millions, if not billions, of people all over the globe.”

I seem to remember reading that there are 1.6 billion Muslims. It’s probable that half of these are women. I would suggest that the “Christian Mullahs” may have saved a fair number of these poor unfortunates from being treated like second class pieces of shit by their stone age religion. Political freedom is desirable but it will come at a terrible cost if Pakistan, Iran etc are example.

The women of Egypt have little time to prepare to be dressed in curtains & stoned.
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February 6, 2011 7:00pm
joana

Mubarak’s wife has been the main person campaigning against FGM. In Egypt , it is done in the hospitals.
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February 6, 2011 7:06pm
bhudson

Luc,

or face the probability sometime of a determined, sustained, non-violent campaign for civil rights that will see Israel’s Europeans forced to concede.

Are you applying for a role creating Tui billboards?

The Arab campaign against Israel has already lasted decades. The one thing it has never been, and will never be, is non-violent. In supporting the terrorist Arab groups you sanction murder Luc. Quite a piece of work you are.
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February 6, 2011 8:29pm
TimG_Oz

bhudson – quite true. I would say that the day that Palestinians start non-violent protests will be the day that a Palestinian state is created alongside Israel.

It’s interesting that a number of the people that hate Mubarak also hate peace.

I’ve been sick this weekend, and unable to catch up with my Egyptian friend – I’m really looking forward to getting his insight into this. I dear say, that he actually knows something about the place, unlike Luc.
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February 6, 2011 8:35pm
Luc Hansen

bhudson
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February 6, 2011 9:15pm
jims_whare

Name me one arab democracy……..can’t think of any (I dont think Turkey counts) they just dont do it. ater mubarak some other asshole will take over and be the next dictator – be interesting to see how long the peace treaty with Israel lasts
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February 6, 2011 9:18pm
Luc Hansen

bhudson: I would contend, and history shows, that it is the Israeli campaign against Arabs that has lasted decades.

This campaign began when European Zionists arrived with their European funding. That’s just a fact.

And the campaign, wit the support of the US, is ongoing. The first reaction of the US to the uprising in Tunisia was to send more arms to Tunisia, Egypt, Jordan and, of course, Israel.

Tim_Oz : before 1967, Palestinians were non-violebt and largely acquiescent to Israeli rule. 1967 was not about Palestinian violence, quite the contrary. It was a deliberate war of expansion by Israel.

Tim, your ideology is nakedly evident when you evince support for Mubarak.
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February 6, 2011 9:29pm
Luc Hansen

Jim

Why doesn’t Turkey count? It’s a free and fair election process. As good as the US, at least.

What about Indonesia?

Iraq? Thanks to Dubya. Afghanistan, too, thanks GW.

Pakistan? Bad result, but fair election.

Iran? Although they had a Florida moment in their last one. I don’t think that will happen again, but I could be wrong.

Jim, do a bit of research.

The worst democracy in the ME? Israel. It’s for non-Palestinians only, in reality. Apartheid reigns.

The Occupied Palestinian Territories, won by Hamas, were acknowledged as clean and free. But then we, the West, supposedly intent on democracy, rejected the results.
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February 6, 2011 9:38pm
TimG_Oz

before 1967, Palestinians were non-violebt and largely acquiescent to Israeli rule. 1967 was not about Palestinian violence, quite the contrary. It was a deliberate war of expansion by Israel.

Ummm? Before 1967, Palestinians were under Egyptian, Jordanian and Syrian rule . The West Bank belonged to Jordan, and Gaza was part of Egypt. And all those countries were hell bent on Israel’s detruction. Ahmed Shukairy, the PLO leader Before the 6 day war, on live TV, stated that any Jews that survived the oncoming invasion were welcome to live in their country – “I estimate, however, that none will survive”

Doesn’t sound non-violent to me … in fact it was a war of Israel’s survival

Tim, your ideology is nakedly evident when you evince support for Mubarak.

I don’t support Mubarak, quite the contrary. I am only suggesting that he hand over the reigns in an orderly fashion at the next election, rather than leave a vacuum of instability.

No secrets to your ideology, though, is there…
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February 6, 2011 9:47pm
Rodders

Jim asked “Name me one arab democracy”

Luc’s reply – Turkey, Indonesia, Iraq, Afganistan, Pakistan and Iran.

Well done, Luc – at least you managed to include Iraq in your list. I am interested to learn that the other five are Arabic states.

LOL.
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February 6, 2011 9:50pm
TimG_Oz

The worst democracy in the ME? Israel. It’s for non-Palestinians only, in reality. Apartheid reigns.

Apart from the Muslim, Christian Arab, Druze, Bedouin citizens. There’s Arab High court judges, political parties, Arabs serve in the Army..

I could go on

Here’s an image from Freedom house, of Freedom in the Middle East: http://blogs.news.com.au/images/uploads/free_thumb.jpg

The reality of Luc is a fiction….
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February 6, 2011 9:51pm
TimG_Oz

“Well done, Luc – at least you managed to include Iraq in your list. I am interested to learn that the other four are Arabic states.”

And Iran, where the opposition party leaders are now based in Israel, after Ahmadinejad refused to abide by the election result, and started killing those that opposed…..
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February 6, 2011 9:54pm
Rodders

The Arab League comprises Algeria, Bahrain, Comoros, Djibouti, Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Mauritania, Morocco, Oman, Palestine, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, Tunisia, United Arab Emirates and Yemen.

Perhaps Luc is advocating Turkey, Indonesia, Afganistan, Pakistan and Iran be admitted to The League. Why not admit Israel, as well while you are at it ?
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February 6, 2011 10:05pm
bhudson

Luc,

1967 was a preemptive strike against Arab forces arrayed against Israel with the express intent of wiping he state of Israel off the map. Just as they had attempted and failed to do in 1948.

The war of 1967 was fomented by Arab nations, not Israel. Overtly hostile acts such as closing the Straits Of Tiran to Israeli (as had been done in 1956, creating the Suez crisis) inevitably result in aggressive responses. But they are responses nonetheless, not initiation.

As for your claim of Palestinian non-violence prior to 1967, you conveniently overlook the participation of the Holy War Army in the 1948 Arab-Israeli war. That was a Palestinian group Luc and they participated in a war of aggression against Israel.

Given how you repeatedly espouse a dual state approach, it is somewhat surprising that you fail to note that the Arabs rejected exactly that in 1948. UN resolution 181 proposed a dual state solution in 1947. Israel reluctantly accepted it as a bare minimum but the Palestinians and other Arab nations rejected it.

Clearly, Luc, the Palestinians and other Arabs do not want a two state solution – they have rejected that in favour of destroying Israel completely. So much for you professing their non-violent intentions.

Luc, the original zionists did not overthrow or otherwise disenfranchise Palestinians. They migrated to a country controlled by the Ottoman Empire and one which treated Jews and Palestinians equally poorly. That goes so me way to explaining why both the Jews and Palestinians both supported the allies to an extent in WWI. To claim those immigrants deposed or dispossessed the Palestinians is a flagrant rewriting of history on your part Luc.

And that doesn’t even touch upon the older historical claim to Israel. It is God’s promised land to the Israelites you know Luc.
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February 6, 2011 10:09pm
Luc Hansen

oops, thanks Tim and Rodders, bit of brain fade there as I morphed onto Muslim states. Arab nations have not been permitted free elections due to support for dictators. There is the odd example, like Libya, and Syria, that charted their own cpurse as regards dictators, but even Gaddafi has fallen into line, and Assad is not far behind.

However, isn’t it interesting that, according to Kiwibloggers, Arabs must remain oppressed by largely US financed and armed dictators just to protect Israel?
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February 6, 2011 10:15pm
Luc Hansen

bhudson

your last sentence shows how far detached from reality you are.

Everybody knows, because Menachim Begin and others told us all, that 1967 was a war of choice, motivated by territorial expansion.ates acted to protect

Of course Palestinians resisted the European invasion over a very long period, not just 1948. The 1948 war was initiated by Israel, well prior to 1948, and Arab states acted to support them.

The only war initiated, in the strict sense, by Arabs was 1973. But that was the result of Israel rejecting Sadat’s previous peace offer, later conceded to in toto by Israel after the shock of that surprise attack.

Just facts, boys.

Any support for true democracy in the ME?

At all?
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February 6, 2011 10:25pm
Luc Hansen

By the way, boys, all Arab and Muslim states have signed up to the two state solution, including a negotiated but limited return of refugees.

What’s your problem?
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February 6, 2011 10:38pm
bhudson

Luc,

“just facts boys”

When are you planning on starting Luc? You assert Israel is the aggressor in 1948 and 1967 yet you offer no evidence – no facts.

The facts are easily researchable Luc. The UN resolution of 1947 offered a dual state solution. The Palestinians and ther Arab supporters rejected that and chose to go to war with Israel instead.

1967 was fomented by the Arabs and Israel stuck before they did. That does not relieve the Arabs of the role of aggressors.

As for your scorn as to my comment on the Israelites promised land, you would do well to avoid amplifying your ignorance further by not assuming I am a believer. However, given that you clearly disdain religion, I can but assume that you think Islam and the Koran are also a load of nonsense. Are you honest enough to tell your terrorist friends that too Luc?
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February 6, 2011 10:43pm
Luc Hansen

bhudson

you are grievously misinformed. Google Menachem Begin, 1967, war, New York Times, should get you somewhere close.

The UN resolution was probably the UN’s worst moment. Take a look at the voting record now and you will find only a handful of the bullied and the bribed alongside the US in supporting Israel at the UN. I’m with about 94% of the world population in my view. The US is 5%, add a few deviants.

I’m an atheist. I put the Koran in the same category as the Bible – creative fiction, albeit fiction that injects a tiny wee bit a recognisable history so as to appear remotely credible.

Go through the reading list on my blog and you will find the Bible is not history, even according to Israelis.

Palestinians are the true descendants of the original Asiatic- Semite population. The true anti-Semites are European Jews.

The leading terrorist states today are the US and Israel.

Surely you must agree with that.

Now, what about democracy in Arab states. Do you support that?
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February 6, 2011 10:58pm
Hurf Durf

I’m with about 94% of the world population

hahaha u wot m8

in my view.

Oh right, well we all know about your deranged, racist viewpoint so we won’t dwell on that.

Hey Puke: pan-Arab socialism has been dead for a long time. There will never be another Nasser. Deal with it.
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February 6, 2011 11:19pm
bhudson

Luc,

You are a revisionist and content to let your ignorance shine through. UN resolution 181 was not an Israeli initiative – it was an offer which they reluctantly agreed to accept as representing a bare minimum position for them; albeit one which would get Israel international recognition, which was clearly important to them.

The resolution wasn’t about “supporting Israel” – it was about finding a lasting, workable solution to a difficult challenge. If it had indeed been about supporting Israeli hegemony the terms would have been more favorable to Israel.

The voting record was 33 to 13 with 10 abstentions. That’s conclusive Luc.
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February 6, 2011 11:21pm
Hurf Durf

You are a revisionist and content to let your ignorance shine through.

Yep. Puke Hansen: Accept No Imitations.
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February 6, 2011 11:24pm
TimG_Oz

You are a revisionist and content to let your ignorance shine through.

Nope, he’s something worse. He’s happy to deliberately distort even though it’s plainly clear to all that he has bias, and double standards which nobody in the world could hope to justify.

He’s already blatantly ignored what we have said – I’ve stated many times that I support democracy in Egypt, and he keeps saying that I support a dictator.

If he can blatantly twist facts in a single thread, and is happy to do so on an issue of a place he has no experience with, imagine what kind of creepy mentality is going on….
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February 6, 2011 11:27pm
bhudson

Luc,

You ask “Now, what about democracy in Arab states. Do you support that?”

Given that you do, you must surely now revise your position on Iraq. You think democracy in Arab states is good ergo you must be wanting to thank the US and George W for bringing democracy to the people of Iraq.
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February 6, 2011 11:30pm
Hurf Durf

The funny thing about the far-left’s enabling of radical totalitarians like the MB and Hamas and Hezbo is that if the former lived in the same shitholes the latter ruled, they’d be the first to be slaughtered.
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February 6, 2011 11:37pm
iMP

OK, TIME FOR A JUDEO-CHRISTIAN PRO-ISREAL RANT.
Luc., I am amazed at how wrong you are. Using google as a scholarly research tool is ridiculous. Palestinians are not “the original descendants of the Asiatic-Semites,” they are Arabs mainly from Jordan. “Palestine” is simply Israel renamed by the Romans after the crushing of Jerusalem in 70AD by Titus.

There has never been a Palestinian state. Arabs lived across a vast area under the Ottoman Turks that encompassed several modern countries. The UN Resolution after the Holocaust came up with the idea of creating a homeland for the tormented Jews. The British Mandate – in place since the collapse of the Ottoman empire, decided to re-create Israel after 2000 years. At the same time they made an Arab state (“Trans-Jordan”) next door, so Arabs from that area could have their own state too. Jordan was created at the same time as Israel.

Jordan is the UN Resolved “Arab-Israel” if you like. Israel for Jews, Jordan for Palestinian Arabs.

The Jews agreed, the Arabs said no, lets just annihilate the Jews again.

During this war, hundreds of thousands of Jews fled into Israel. Hundreds of Thousands of Palestinian Arabs moved into Jordan out of Israel so it could be bombed to kingdom-come. Where people went I think indicates legitimacy of homeland. Then the war began which the Israeli’s won. 7 armed Arab nations vs 1 tiny new amalgam of peoples suffering from the Holocaust of WWII. A modern miracle in my view.

Of note is Israel established a democracy, allowed Arabs and anyone else back in to their new country (creating a truly multi-ethnic nation). Their most holy site and historic city (Jerusalem) was given over to 4 peoples to administer [Arabs, Christians, Jews, Armenians]. (would the Muslims ever do that? “yeah right. Seem a synagogue at Mecca recently?). Israel then re-created a national language, Hebrew, revived from the ancient past (a bit like reviving Maori or Gaelic) which few of its new citizens spoke.

20 years later the PLO was set up and attacks on Israel (meanwhile getting on with building a nation out of nothing, ie Te Aviv was a cluster of shacks in the sand dunes) began again in ernest in the form of blowing up buses of Jewish children on their way to school, shelling Israeli suburbs, and suicide bombings in malls. Can anyone blame Israel for hitting back?.

There is no justification for the violence against Israel. Palestinian Arabs have millions of miles of land around them in several nations surrounding tiny Israel (the size of Canterbury) the only true homeland for historic Jews horrifically persecuted by many nations. the UN created a big nation for Arabs (Jordan) and a small nation for Israel, people could go where they wanted. Israel was never closed to Arabs, but the Jews had to settle somewhere so displacements did happen (just like in NZ).

The ongoing hatred is religious, ideological and spiritual.

There will be another war against Israel, probably soon. But this time, Israel will take control of Jerusalem completely (they have already conquered the city once, The Dome of the Rock is where it is by Israeli magnaminity in the interests of peace). Expect Muslims to be turfed off the Jewish Temple Mount.

Israel has always allowed Palestinians and Muslims within its society. They, along with a host of other peoples (Ethiopian Jews, Christians and Armenians etc) have always lived in modern peace, like a M.Eastern New York. The proof is in the pudding really. Isreal is a tolerant open democratic modern civilisation. Pathological Israel haters around them are dark, intolerant backward savage societies ruled by dictators or hierachial monarchies.
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February 7, 2011 9:44am
iMP

In the interests of being better informed on this complex divisive topic, there is a very good visual PowerPoint that can be viewed on You Tube. It covers the basic facts.

http://www.youtube.com
“History of the Middle East conflict in a nutshell”
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February 7, 2011 9:49am

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