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January 26, 2011 8:00am by David Farrar

General Debate 26 January 2011

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General Debate

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Johnboy

DS: Once ACT, Nat last time (just to get rid of Helen), none of them at the moment, they are all a bunch of useless arseholes.
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January 26, 2011 1:02pm
Lucia Maria

Pauleastbay,

… you don’t need a building to pray …

No, but sometimes you need to be in the direct presence of God. Well, I do, anyway. All the human crap just falls away.
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January 26, 2011 1:03pm
minto57

Instead of contibuting as why infantcide should be abhorred by all, GOH goes on the offensive with racist/thugish rants againts Pakeha somewhat akin to the reactions displayed by the latest killers moronic relatives.
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January 26, 2011 1:04pm
starboard

Can Manolo, Johnboy, starboard, Viking2 & friends state which political Party they support.

…maori party
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January 26, 2011 1:10pm
Johnboy

starboard: 🙂
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January 26, 2011 1:14pm
starboard

GOH goes on the offensive with racist/thugish rants againts Pakeha …

..remember that racist POS many years ago in the 80’s who spouted from a University somewhere in the North Island to ” kill a white and die a hero “…you see, its all they know…violence , thuggery , abuse. Nothings changed.
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January 26, 2011 1:14pm
grumpyoldhori

Lucia Maria you are right, I put it down to generation after generation of too many Kiwis including, Maori, Pakeha, Islanders etc etc etc. not having good homes and any education, kids leaving schools when they cannot read and write.

I would prefer kids to be grabbed from wrong homes when they are say three and put into Dilworth type schools.
Will not happen though,as there are far too many rice bowls to be kept full in the public service and in a private company that runs a prison.
You will find some people who rant about crime but mention their well paid public jobs may disappear and they will then rant that that is wrong.
There are too many people who have a financial interest in keeping up crime in NZ outside of the crims.
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January 26, 2011 1:15pm
Johnboy

“Nothings changed.”

Yes it has. Jinpy’s got the answer just above……….. A bit more hand wringing. 🙂
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January 26, 2011 1:17pm
Put it away

Goff finally reveals his masterplan for winning the election – copy John Key’s hair
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January 26, 2011 1:17pm
starboard

maori are very very lucky the French didnt colonize NZ…they stopped at Akaroa , had the French continued onwards I can guarantee you they would have wiped the maori from the face of the planet…
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January 26, 2011 1:23pm
malcolm

Lucia, correct me if I’m wrong, but you’re basically saying “No” when I ask “do you believe you’re persecuted for being a Catholic in NZ?”

Getting a startled look when expressing an opinion is not persecution. Being admonished by a priest is not persecution. Having someone stare at your crucifix is not persecution. Burning your church down would be persecution, but I’m guessing it was because the church was easier to set alight than the school?

I think there will be increasing tensions between Catholicism and homosexuality as time goes on. As well as tensions between the growing paganism taken on by the NZ government via Maori pagan spirituality.

Tension between groups is not persecution. People express harsh and vitriolic views here all the time. There is tension. It’s not persecution.

I don’t mean to hammer you on this, but a lot of people bandy around the word “persecution” when really they just mean “people don’t disagree with me and important faith”. It does a disservice to “persecution”.
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January 26, 2011 1:23pm
malcolm

sorry, too slow. last line should be:

I don’t mean to hammer you on this, but a lot of people bandy around the word “persecution” when really they just mean “people don’t agree with me and my important faith”. It does a disservice to “persecution”.
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January 26, 2011 1:27pm
Diziet Sma

Pakeha are lucky America didn’t sign first, or they would have ended up in Tasmania.
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January 26, 2011 1:29pm
jinpy

Johnboy,
I didn’t say I had any answers, I’m pretty short on those. I’m pointing out that I think people like you have the wrong ideas in the first place and shouldn’t contribute to the debate.
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January 26, 2011 1:35pm
Johnboy

You are quite right there jinpy anyone with the wrong ideas should be silent, if not they should be silenced.

Its time for lunch anyway so I will let those with the right ideas, such as your good self and Grumpy, hold the floor while I have a nosh.
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January 26, 2011 1:41pm
philu

“..I think there will be increasing tensions between Catholicism and homosexuality as time goes on…”

that’d be all those gay priests..?

..and that is quite the obsesional thing-fetish you have going there..eh..?

..the mis-delivery of a wafer..in yr eyes…warrents an hour and a half (needless) journey…?

..whoar…!

(you didn’t break into that church and nick those wafers did you..?..desiring self-delivery…?..)

..and yr crucifix…(big on icons..are ya..?..)

..and things/places..bring you religious-joy..eh..?

(woof-woof..!..eh..?..)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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January 26, 2011 1:51pm
Manolo

Can Manolo, Johnboy, starboard, Viking2 & friends state which political Party they support.

Card-carrying member of the Maori Party. 🙂
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January 26, 2011 2:00pm
philu

they are all actites…

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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January 26, 2011 2:02pm
Manolo

Similar regulations to these will solve the pedestrian accidents in Wellington. Now, wait until Celia Wade-Brown is informed. 🙂

New York state Sen. Carl Kruger wants to make his state’s streets safer.
To do that, he’s not proposing a tough new gun law or advocating for broader police search powers.
No, Sen. Kruger sees a greater danger out there.

Distracting gadgets.

He hopes to ban the use of mobile phones, iPods and other gadgets by pedestrians in major cities while crossing the street.

Moronic dogooders and busybodies around the world would love to regulate every facet of the lives of their citizens.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/01/25/arkansas-new-york-lawmakers-ban-use-headphones-walking/
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January 26, 2011 2:08pm
Ryan Sproull

Moronic dogooders and busybodies from around the world, unite.

I can think of two occasions this year where I’ve had to swerve to avoid someone fiddling with some goddam thing as they stepped out on to the road. Don’t know if this kind of ban is the solution, but it wouldn’t surprise me if there was a statistically significant problem.
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January 26, 2011 2:10pm
philu

i wd like to nominate lucia as the most-superstition-riddled-commenter on kiwiblog…

..are there any other candidates…?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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January 26, 2011 2:22pm
Lucia Maria

Malcolm,

Yes, to be absolutely clear, and as I said in my first sentence, I am saying No, I do not feel persecuted at this point in time. The rest was just for background, as being Catholic in NZ is not a neutral position.
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January 26, 2011 2:30pm
Lucia Maria

Jinpy,

Colonisation involved a purposeful confiscation of the land for arriving settlers, control of political processes, and rested on the assumption that European culture was superior to Maori.

See, this is where we are going wrong. European culture is superior, otherwise we’d be all living in wood huts without electricity or roads or refrigerated food, and raiding each other for slaves. This cultural cringe doesn’t do anyone any good. Encouraging a whole race to embrace their barbarism is pulling this country out of the civilised world.
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January 26, 2011 2:35pm
grumpyoldhori

Why Lance Sargeant Manahi did not get the VC.
It looks like General Alanbrook down graded it because another hori had just won the VC in 1943
The New Zealand government could have asked the king to change the award between 1945 and 1949.
But why am I not surprised that a bunch of pakeha politicians who were doing their best to make sure Maori did not get rehab farms did fuck all between 45-49 to get the award upgraded to the VC even though there was plenty of Generals etc who would have been happy to give witness statements etc.
Give a live Maori a VC, he would get above himself was no doubt the thinking of too many pakeha politicians of the day.

Ah well no doubt there are raving right wingers who believe Corporal Apiata VC did not deserve his award being non white.
Interesting, check Manahi’s actions against others who did get the VC
http://www.28maoribattalion.org.nz/memory/letters-and-statements-supporting-haane-manahi-vc
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January 26, 2011 2:38pm
Lucia Maria

grumpyoldhori,

It’s that same old tension that occurs when civilisation brings in newcomers. Those who are already on the “in” find that they don’t want to let those on the “out”, come “in”. The story of Alaric the Goth, and his desire for Roman honours bears witness to that.
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January 26, 2011 2:46pm
Redbaiter

Maggie Barry- politically incoherent novice who will fit right in with other National losers.
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January 26, 2011 2:52pm
dime

Australia Day – its funny seeing all the facebook posts from aussie friends and family. all great positive stuff. “happy australia day” “we are so lucky to live in this wonderful country” etc etc

fast forward to feb 6 and witness our shitty waitangi day. fueled by hate and politics. people wanting money because something happened to their ancesters 150 years ago etc etc

wish we just had new zealand day
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January 26, 2011 2:53pm
RRM

dime – Yeah it’s great when your ancestors beat the natives properly into submission in the first place eh?

But I agree it will be wonderful if Waitangi Day eventually becomes something all NZers can take pride in.

(On this point It is easy to point the finger at Tame Iti and his kind, but I don’t see many of my fellow white MoFos taking much initiative in claiming Waitangi Day as something positive for themselves, either… )
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January 26, 2011 3:05pm
Johnboy

Major Kemp did better than Alaric the Goth and Sergeant Manahi then.

http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/people/te-keepa-te-rangihiwinui

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_Cross_%281869%29

Equivalent to the VC I see and awarded to a damned native in 1874.

Gad! What were those damned racist colonialists thinking of eh Grumpy. 🙂
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January 26, 2011 3:09pm
Manolo

… and rested on the assumption that European culture was superior to Maori.

Cultural relativism aside, is there any doubt?
Superior yes, by quite a few centuries.
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January 26, 2011 3:11pm
jinpy

@Lucia Maria,
“See, this is where we are going wrong. European culture is superior, otherwise we’d be all living in wood huts without electricity or roads or refrigerated food, and raiding each other for slaves. This cultural cringe doesn’t do anyone any good. Encouraging a whole race to embrace their barbarism is pulling this country out of the civilised world.”

Who is advocating a return to wood huts or barbarism? Of course, the Europeans were technologically superior and yes it would be folly to ignore advances in technology. The point was the Europeans thought that despite all their own problems with warfare, poverty, subjugation of women, child labour etc they were somehow morally superior to the indigenous peoples they met.

Your use of ‘barbarism’ in reference to Maori is interesting too — what could be more barbaric than travelling to foreign countries, viewing other people as animals, exploiting them and their land for economic gain and murdering them in unprecedented numbers — all the while thinking of yourself as some superior being! I’m generalising beyond NZ across colonisation generally here. Tribal warfare may have been brutally violent but the scale doesn’t equate and the reasons and rules around the fighting were often a lot more sensible than those in European wars.
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January 26, 2011 3:14pm
adze

jinpy,
I would actually agree with a lot of your mini-essay above, with the exception that I think you are painting colonisation as an inherently european phenomenon. Ironically, this is a eurocentric view as it only examines the history of colonisation from the modern European historical perspective. Different cultures have gained territorial or numerical ascendency throughout history. I would also question skin colour as the most significant out-group marker but that’s a minor point.

For a modern non-European example, we only need to look at the situation Fiji is in – with its relatively large, cohesive, economically mobile Indian population. Granted they were originally brought there by the British as plantation workers, but it illustrates that colonisation is a human phenomenon.

Overall I think your most important point is that there are more similarities among humans than there are differences, so if we value our culture (and accept that others do too), we need smarter and better ways of managing the development of multicultural societies.
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January 26, 2011 3:22pm
Johnboy

“Your use of ‘barbarism’ in reference to Maori is interesting too — what could be more barbaric than travelling to foreign countries, viewing other people as animals, exploiting them and their land for economic gain and murdering them in unprecedented numbers — all the while thinking of yourself as some superior being!”

Quite right jinpy and here’s a good example:

“In 1835 some Ngāti Mutunga and Ngāti Tama people, Māori from the Taranaki region of the North Island of New Zealand invaded the Chathams. On November 19, 1835, the Rodney, a chartered European ship, arrived carrying 500 Maori armed with guns, clubs and axes, followed by another ship with 400 more Maori on December 5, 1835. They proceeded to enslave some Moriori and kill and cannibalise others. “Parties of warriors armed with muskets, clubs and tomahawks, led by their chiefs, walked through Moriori tribal territories and settlements without warning, permission or greeting. If the districts were wanted by the invaders, they curtly informed the inhabitants that their land had been taken and the Moriori living there were now vassals.”[11]

A council of Moriori elders was convened at the settlement called Te Awapatiki. Despite knowing of the Māori predilection for killing and eating the conquered, and despite the admonition by some of the elder chiefs that the principle of Nunuku was not appropriate now, two chiefs — Tapata and Torea — declared that “the law of Nunuku was not a strategy for survival, to be varied as conditions changed; it was a moral imperative.”[12] A Moriori survivor recalled : “[The Maori] commenced to kill us like sheep…. [We] were terrified, fled to the bush, concealed ourselves in holes underground, and in any place to escape our enemies. It was of no avail; we were discovered and killed – men, women and children indiscriminately.” A Maori conqueror explained, “We took possession… in accordance with our customs and we caught all the people. Not one escaped…..” [13]

After the invasion, Moriori were forbidden to marry Moriori, or to have children with each other. All became slaves of the Ngati Tama and Ngati Mutunga invaders. Many died from despair. Many Moriori women had children by their Maori masters. A small number of Moriori women eventually married either Maori or European men. Some were taken from the Chathams and never returned. Only 101 Moriori out of a population of about 2,000 were left alive by 1862 (Kopel et al., 2003). Although the last Moriori of unmixed ancestry, Tommy Solomon,[14] died in 1933 there are several thousand mixed ancestry Moriori alive today.”
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January 26, 2011 3:23pm
Pauleastbay

Jesus Grumpy, the humidity must be getting to you.
………………… it because another hori had just won the VC in 1943………………..
I don’t think 2nd Lieutenant Moananui-a- Kiwa Ngarimu was ….just another hori.

And guess what Peter Fraser (labour )was the PM.

………………..There was another journey – this time to London, where Hon Phil Goff, representing the government, Donna Hall, representing Te Arawa, and Norman Bennett, representing the Manahi VC Committee, delivered the joint submission to the Queen’s private secretary in person.

As you know, the response to that submission reiterated Her Majesty’s great admiration for the great bravery of Lance Sergeant Manahi, but explained that the Queen places great importance on the decision of her father, King George VI, in 1949, that no further awards for World War II should be considered…………….

Te Arawa and the family are aware of the bravery and given efforts made there is no doubt that his actions were worthy of the award but again we are living in the past.

Anyway we have our VC winner in town here and the entire district is very proud
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January 26, 2011 3:25pm
Pete George

wish we just had new zealand day

We could start one. Doesn’t need to be a public holiday, initially at least. Choose a suitable day and celebrate our country without any side issues. I suggest July-ish – we could have winter festivities, fireworks where the kids don’t have to stay up half the night etc etc. There must be some old pagan festival we can co-opt.
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January 26, 2011 3:27pm
grumpyoldhori

Lucia Maria what the politicians back in 45-49 did was wrong.
A award put forward counter signed by five Generals and a Field Marshall, it should have been automatic.
And it should have been the duty of the politicians to make sure the Lance Sergeant got his award upgraded
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January 26, 2011 3:27pm
Johnboy

4th of July perhaps Petey. 🙂

“There must be some old pagan festival we can co-opt.”

Burning witches perhaps.
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January 26, 2011 3:29pm
dime

RRM – not sure my ancestors did anything to maori. pretty sure mine were shipped to australia for petty crimes. made to leave their home land, family and friends wah wah wah who gives a fuck what happened to my great great great great grand father
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January 26, 2011 3:33pm
MyNameIsJack

Glenn Beck’s Attacks on Frances Fox Piven Trigger Death Threats

If anyone thinks that the vitriol that Glenn Beck spews on his radio and TV shows doesn’t stir people to aggressive and hateful action, they should take a look at the postings on his website, The Blaze, about Frances Fox Piven.

here are just a few selections of what in right wing spheres passes for debate.

• “Maybe they should burst through the front door of this arrogant elitist and slit the hateful cow’s throat”

•”We should blow up Piven’s office and home”
•”I am all for violence and change Frances: Where do your loved ones live?”
•”Another Idiot here who needs to be Euthanized!”
•”Dear Frannie, Trotsky got his in Mexico with a well applied icepick.”
•”I would not be upset at all if she got hit by a car sliding in the snow during a winter storm…. yeah, i wouldn’t be upset at all, i don’t even consider her human.”
•”Hey Frances and your “unruly mobs”! I’d like you to meet bullets! Our friendly neighborhood riot police can help you make their acquaintance!”
•”Hey Frances. Please get sick and die quickly!”
•”That old woman is nothing more than bile coming from a rabid animal. put it out of its misery.”
•” The time for talk is over ! i stand with free people and my Lord Jesus, he has the ability to forgive. I do not. It will be ugly”.

A chocolate fish to the first person who identifies which one of these is from our very own redbaiter. (I think the last one is d4j).
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January 26, 2011 3:34pm
MyNameIsJack

Some of these bullies have posted links to documents that reveal Piven’s home address and phone number.

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/01/23-0
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January 26, 2011 3:36pm
dime

jack – i did lol, but really, who cares. there are nasty nutters on both sides.
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January 26, 2011 3:43pm
RightNow

MNIJ – you’d expect some sort of action to be taken by the authorities or something wouldn’t you? I mean death threats are a criminal offence in the US as well as here (as I understand it).
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January 26, 2011 4:12pm
RightNow

“Tribal warfare may have been brutally violent but the scale doesn’t equate” – hence why the colonists won the tender, the incumbents didn’t have a completely scalable solution.
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January 26, 2011 4:15pm
Manolo

It shows how much things have changed for the Messiah. The vagaries of political reality, after all.

The five-year spending cut President Barack Obama is expected to propose during the State of the Union is one he opposed only a few years ago as a candidate.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0111/48167.html
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January 26, 2011 4:16pm
redeye

And I thought you loathed facebook Dime?
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January 26, 2011 4:21pm
jinpy

adze,
I agree, these are universal phenomena. I guess I single out European colonisation as its the one I know about and its so epoch defining. I’m happy to be argued with around skin colour, that may be far more cultural than I admit, considering multicultural places like Brazil and as far as I know parts of NZ. I was brought up mainly among whites and tend to notice the colour difference quite a lot.

Johnboy,
I’ve never said atrocities like this weren’t perpetuated by Maori. Tribal warfare was brutal. My argument is purely around scale and pointing out the hypocrisy of Europeans ignoring their own savagery when it suits them. In Maori history, as far as I know there were also significant periods of peace and traditions around peace-making etc so painting with a simplistic brush should be avoided.

The incident you refer to was notably after Europeans had arrived and was assisted by them, although upon Cook’s arrival Maori seemed to have been already engaged in a period of tribal conflicts as far as I know, but my history doesn’t go far in terms of Maori tribal history.
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January 26, 2011 4:21pm
redeye

Art deco houses granted reprieve in St Heliers.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10700896.

I just had a quick look on Google Maps/streetview and they have got to be kidding? How those trashy looking, SPANISH style, Art Deco dumps be considered heritage value in New Zealand is beyond me.

Anyone from that area comment?
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January 26, 2011 4:24pm
grumpyoldhori

Pauleastbay Fraser, I have never had any time for Fraser, he dodged combat in WW1 yet was real keen on NZ having the conscription to fight Britain’s battles in WW2.
Bloody amazing the amount of British troops who sat on their arses in Britain from 1940 to late 1944.
What was Churchill’s battle cry again, oh yes, onward colonial soldiers.
Just check the % of British troops at El Alamain.

I do not begrudge the efforts of those after 1949, but it was far far too late, it should have been sorted by those in office in 45-49.
Reading some of General Kippenberger’s books tend to show the politicians for what they were,
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January 26, 2011 4:52pm
Redbaiter

“here are just a few selections of what in right wing spheres passes for debate.”

You dirty despicable moron. There’s not a person with a brain who does not know those messages were posted by lying cowardly leftist scum like you so as to deliberately discredit Glenn Beck and the Blaze.
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January 26, 2011 5:28pm
Redbaiter

Helen Klark and Corruption At The UNDP
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January 26, 2011 5:30pm
Lucia Maria

# grumpyoldhori (1,658) Says:
January 26th, 2011 at 3:27 pm

Lucia Maria what the politicians back in 45-49 did was wrong.
A award put forward counter signed by five Generals and a Field Marshall, it should have been automatic.
And it should have been the duty of the politicians to make sure the Lance Sergeant got his award upgraded

I agree with your first sentence, and don’t disagree with your next two (don’t know enough about it, myself).

My grandfather and uncles fought in WW2 for the 2nd Polish Corps (ie the Polish Army in Exile, made up of mostly ex-Soviet prisoners), under the banner of the British. All army in exile troops, except for a select few who declined, were refused a place in the victory parade after the war in London, due to Britain’s new best friend – the USSR.

It’s best not to get me started on this …
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January 26, 2011 5:49pm
Lucia Maria

Jinpy,

Your use of ‘barbarism’ in reference to Maori is interesting too — what could be more barbaric than travelling to foreign countries, viewing other people as animals, exploiting them and their land for economic gain and murdering them in unprecedented numbers — all the while thinking of yourself as some superior being!

The word barbarian comes from the Latin “barbarus”. It referred to those who lived outside of civilisation, who to the Romans made sounds that resembled “bar’, “bar”. Hence, “barbarus”, or our English barbarian.

Emotion aside, somehow I don’t think Maori living now would rather have remained undiscovered and uncivilised. Except for a few, who have a romantic notion of what life was like in NZ before the Europeans turned up.
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January 26, 2011 5:55pm
Johnboy

“but my history doesn’t go far in terms of Maori tribal history.”

Heres a bit more for you to bone up on jinpy (if you will pardon the pun).

HERE BE CANNIBALS
CANNIBALISM IN NEW ZEALAND

There is not a bay, not a cove, in New Zealand which has not witnessed horrible dramas, and woe to the white man who falls into the New Zealanders’ hands.

Dr. Felix Maynard & Alexandre Dumas, The Whalers, Hutchinson, 1937

The dreadful Maori custom – or at least occasional habit – of exhuming and eating buried human bodies was also a Fijian custom.

Elsdon Best

In this situation we were not above two cables’ length from the rocks, and here we remained in the strength of the tide, from a little after seven till near midnight. The sea broke in dreadful surf upon the rocks. Our danger was imminent and our escape critical in the highest degree; from the situation of these rocks, so well adapted to catch unwary strangers, I call them ‘The Traps.’

There was not a man aboard Endeavour who, in the event of the ship’s breaking up, would not have preferred to drown rather than be left to the mercy of the Maoris. For as Endeavour slowly circled the North Island, those few words spoken by the Maori boys – ‘Do not put us ashore there; it is inhabited by our enemies who will kill and eat us’ – began to grow into a hideous reality. Yet even as fresh evidence came to light that these people were indeed cannibals, the ship’s company still refused to believe the truth their eyes told them.

Tupia inquired if it was their practice to eat men, to which they answered in the affirmative; but said that they ate only their enemies who were slain in battle. We now began seriously to believe that this horrid custom prevailed amongst them, for what the boys had said we had considered as a mere hyperbolical expression of their fear. But some days later some of our people found in the skirts of the wood, near a hole, or oven, three human hip-bones, which they brought on board: a further proof that these people eat human flesh…

Calm light airs from the north all day on the 23rd November hindered us from putting out to sea as intended. In the afternoon, some of the officers went on shore to amuse themselves among the natives, where they saw the head and bowels of a youth, who had been lately killed, lying on the beach, and the heart stuck on a forked stick which was fixed on the head of one of the largest canoes. One of the gentlemen bought the head and brought it on board, where a piece of the flesh was broiled and eaten by one of the natives, before all the officers and most of the men. I was on shore at this time, but soon after returning on board was informed of the above circumstances, and found the quarter-deck crowded with the natives, and the mangled head, or rather part of it (for the under-jaw and lips were wanting), lying on the taffrail. The skull had been broken on the left side, just above the temples, and the remains of the face had all the appearance of a youth under twenty.

The sight of the head, and the relation of the above circumstances, struck me with horror and filled my mind with indignation against these cannibals. Curiosity, however, got the better of my indignation, especially when I considered that it would avail but little, and being desirous of becoming an eye-witness of a fact which many doubted, I ordered a piece of the flesh to be broiled, and brought to the quarter-deck, where one of the cannibals ate it with surprising avidity. This had such an effect on some of our people as to make them sick. Oedidee, the native who had embarked with us some time before, was so affected with the sight as to become perfectly motionless, and seemed as if metamorphosed into a statue of horror. It is utterly impossible for art to describe that passion with half the force that it appeared in his countenance.

When roused from this state by some of us, he burst into tears, continued to weep and scold by turns, told them they were vile men and that he neither was nor would be any longer their friend. He even would not suffer them to touch him. He used the same language to one of the gentlemen who cut off the flesh, and refused to accept or even touch the knife with which it was done. Such was Oedidee’s indignation against this vile custom; and worthy of imitation by every rational being…

One of the cannibals thereupon bit and gnawed the human arm which Banks had picked up, drawing it through his mouth and showing by signs that the flesh to him was a dainty bit. Tupia carried on the conversation: ‘Where are the heads?’ he asked. ‘Do you eat them too?’ ‘Of the heads,’ answered an old man, ‘we eat only the brains.’ Later he brought on board Endeavour four of the heads of the seven victims. The hair and flesh were entire, but we perceived that the brains had been extracted. The flesh was soft, but had by some method been preserved from putrefaction, for it had no disagreeable smell…

This custom of eating their enemies slain in battle (for I firmly believe they eat the flesh of no others) has undoubtedly been handed down to them from earliest times; and we know it is not an easy matter to wean a nation from their ancient customs, let them be ever so inhuman and savage; especially if that nation has no manner of connexion or commerce with strangers. For it is by this that the greatest part of the human race has been civilized; an advantage which the New Zealanders, from their situation, never had.

One of the arguments they made use of to Tapia, who frequently expostulated with them against this custom, was that there could be no harm in killing and eating the man who would do the same by them if it was in his power. For, said they, ‘Can there be any harm in eating our enemies, whom we have killed in battle? Would not those very enemies have done the same to us?’ I have often seen them listen to Tapia with great attention, but I never found his arguments have any weight with them. When Oedidee and several of our people showed their abhorrence of it, they only laughed at them.

Captain Cook

[Touai, a New Zealand chief who was brought to London in 1818 and resided there for a long time, becoming ‘almost civilized’]

confessed in his moments of nostalgia that what he most regretted in the country from which he was absent was the feast of human flesh, the feast of victory. He was weary of eating English beef; he claimed that there was a great analogy between the flesh of the pig and that of man. This last declaration he made before a sumptuously served table. The flesh of women and children was to him and his fellow-countrymen the most delicious, while certain Maories prefer that of a man of fifty, and that of a black rather than that of a white. His countrymen, Touai said, never ate the flesh raw, and preserved the fat of the rump for the purpose of dressing their sweet potatoes…

New Zealanders particularly esteem the brain, and reject the remainder of the head; but an English missionary has reported that Pomare, a chief of the Bay of Islands, ate six entire heads. Chiefs’ heads are usually dried and perfectly preserved by an ingenious process. When a tribe wishes to make peace, it offers the vanquished tribe, as proof of its good intentions, the heads of the chiefs the others have lost. These heads are also articles of commerce in the neighbourhood of the Bay of Islands.

The bones of chiefs are very carefully gathered up, and from them they construct knives, fish-hooks, arrow-points, and points for lances and javelins, as well as ornaments for the toilet. I possess some fish-hooks pointed with very sharp fragments of human bone. Sometimes they detach the hand and the forearm and dry them at a fire of aromatic herbs. The muscles and tendons of the fingers contract so that the whole forms a hook, which they place in their huts for the suspension of baskets and weapons. I have seen several of these used as clothes-pegs. They utilize the remnants of the corpse in this manner in order to cause the family of the chief who is no more to feel that, even after death, he is still the slave of the victor. Before the feast of victory, each warrior drinks the blood of the enemy he has killed with his own hand. The atoua, the god of the conquered, then becomes subject to the atoua of the victors. In the neighbourhood of Hokianga, Hongi ate the left eye of a great chief. According to their belief, the left eye becomes a star in the firmament, and Hongi considered that henceforth his star would be much the more brilliant, and the strength of his sight would be augmented by all that which was possessed by the defunct….

Though the New Zealanders do not conceal their cannibalism, their chiefs sometimes endeavour to excuse themselves for it. ‘The fish of the sea eat one another,’ they say; ‘ the large fish eat the small ones, the small ones eat insects; dogs eat men and men eat dogs, while dogs eat one another; finally, the gods devour other gods. Why, among enemies, should we not eat one another?’

There is usually a suspension of fighting after the death of the first chief to fall in combat. The party which has not lost that leader claims the body of the defunct. If the others are intimidated, they yield it at once, and in addition, the chief’s wife, who is immediately put to death; she even voluntarily yields herself up, if she loved her husband. The priests cut up the corpses, divide them into fragments, and eat some; offering the greater number to their idols, while consulting the gods upon the issue of the present war.

Dr. Felix Maynard & Alexandre Dumas, The Whalers, Hutchinson, 1937

After battle comes the terrible and revolting episode of the cannibal feast. It is unfortunately impossible to pass it over without notice, for Maori history is too full of allusion and incident connected with the practice for us to avoid mention of description of some of its horrors.

Prisoners taken in the fight were slain in cold blood, except those reserved for slavery – a mark of still greater contempt than being killed for food. Sometimes after the battle a few of the defeated were thrust alive into large food-baskets and thus degraded for ever. As a general rule, however, they were slain for the oven.

In days near our own it is recorded that a chief named Wherowhero ordered 250 prisoners of the Taranaki people to be brought to him for slaughter. He sat on the ground and the prisoners were brought to him one by one to receive the blow of the chief’s mere – a weapon till lately in the possession his son, the late Maori ‘King.’ After he had killed the greater number of them he said, ‘I am tired. Let the rest live.’ So the remainder passed into slavery.

How numerous sometimes these war captives were may be judged by the fact that when Hongi returned from his raid on the southern tribes he brought back 2,000 prisoners to the Bay of Islands. One of the latest cannibal feats of consequence was held at Ohariu, near Wellington, when 150 of the Muaupoko tribe went into the ovens. When the Maoris overcame the gentle Morioris of the Chatham Islands, not only did they keep the captives penned up like live-stock waiting to be killed and eaten, but one of the leading chiefs of the invaders ordered a meal of six children at once to be cooked to regale his friends.

I was shown a part of a beach on the Chatham Islands on which the bodies of eighty Moriori women were laid side by side, each with an impaling stake driven into the abdomen. It is difficult for one not accustomed to savage warfare to note how shockingly callous and heartless this desecration of the human body made the actors in these terrible scenes…

A Maori relating an account of an expedition said, incidentally: ‘On the way I was speaking to a red-haired girl who had just been caught out in the open. We were then on the eastern side of Maunga Whau, Auckland. My companions remained with the girl whilst I went to see the man of Waikato who had been killed. As we came back, I saw the head of the red-haired girl lying in the ferns by the side of the track. Further on, we overtook one of the Waihou men carrying a back-load of the flesh, which he was taking to our camp to cook for food. The arms of the girl were round his neck, whilst the body was on his back.’ If one can mentally picture the scene, with the man striding along, carrying the headless, disembowelled trunk of the naked girl, enough of this kind of horror will have been evoked…

When the bodies could not all be eaten, some of the flesh was stripped from the bones and dried in the sun, being hung on stages for that purpose. The flesh was then gathered into baskets and oil was poured over it, the oil being rendered-down from the bodies; this was done to prevent it spoiling from damp. Sometimes the flesh was potted into calabashes, as birds were potted. The bones were broken up and burnt in the fire. The body of a chief might be flayed, and the skin dried for covering hoops or boxes. The heads of the inferior chiefs were smashed and burnt, but those of the great were preserved by smoking. Sometimes the bones were broken and knocked like nails into the posts of the storehouses – a great indignity.

Bones were also taken away to be made into fish-hooks, or as barbs for bird or eel spears. The hands were dried with the fingers bent towards the palm, and the wrists were tied to a pole which was stuck into the ground, and baskets containing the remains of a meal were hung upon the fingers. Some of the Ngapuhi tribe were treated this way early this century. The hands were fastened to the walls of a house, with the wrists upwards and fingers turned up as hooks. The hands had been roasted until the outer skin had come off. The palms were quite white inside….

If the deceased had been a great chief, care was taken to degrade every part of the skeleton. The thigh-bones were made into flutes, or cut into sections that could be worked into rings for the legs of captive parrots. From other bones would be made pins for holding the dress-mats together, or needles for sewing dogskin mats. The skull might even be used as a water-vessel for carrying water in, for wetting ovens. But chiefs’ heads were carried back to be erected on posts so that they might be taunted, or fixed on the corner sticks of a loom to be mocked by a women as she sat weaving. In fact, no method of showing contempt, especially of defiling the remains of the defeated by associating them with food, was spared.

Sometimes the heart of the vanquished was roasted for ceremonial purposes. When the Kaiapoi stronghold was attacked by the forces of Rauparaha, the heart of a chief of the defending party was cut out and roasted in a fire, while all the attacking warriors stretched out their arms towards the heart while it was cooking. When the priests ended their chant, the warriors took up the song, while the chief priest tore off a portion of the heart and threw it among the enemy to weaken them.

The heart of a victim of sacrifice was not always eaten for war purposes. Sometimes it was for other reasons. Thus Uenuku ate the heart of his wife, who had committed adultery. The heart of the human sacrifice was eaten at a house-building ceremony, and also at the tattooing of the lips of a chief’s daughter and at the felling of a tree to be used for a great chief’s canoe.

Edward Tregear, The Maori Race, New Zealand, 1904

A young Maori convert, of ‘a particularly gentle and lovable disposition, very shy – even timid, and extremely popular with everyone at the mission where he was employed… One day he happened to meet a young girl who had run away for some reason from her home in a neighbouring village. The young Maori suddenly became possessed of an unaccustomed demon. He seized the young girl, took her to his hut, killed her in cold blood; cut up her body in the traditional manner, and then invited his friends to partake with him in a meal, the chief and most favoured dish of which consisted on this young Maori girl.’

A. P. Rice in The American Antiquarian, vol. XXXII, 1910

The Master of the trading brig Elizabeth, one Captain Steward, who allowed himself to be persuaded by a Maori chief to smuggle him and a party of his tribesmen aboard the ship so that they might arrive unexpectedly at the shores of an island where their enemies lived. Te Rauparaha must have been a person of some plausibility, for Captain Stewart allowed a hundred or more natives to secrete themselves in part of his holds before he set sail for their mutual objective: the one to pick up a cargo of flax, the other with a very different end in view.

Between one and two in the morning, the Elizabeth dropped anchor off shore. At daylight, Steward found canoes coming out to visit the ship, and one by one, the crews were allowed to come aboard, and were then battened down below hatches. As soon as sufficient canoes were available, the tribesmen from the other hold came up on deck, boarded the canoes, and paddled across the bay, to fight the depleted community and ultimately return with canoe-loads of victims, who were then thrown down into the holds where already their fellow-tribesmen were battened down.

None of those taken prisoner were killed, nor were any of those killed on shore cooked on board, nor in the cooking-vessels belonging to the ship. All the bodies were cooked on shore in the primitive Maori fashion of the day. They dig a hole in the earth two feet deep, in which they make a quantity of round stones red-hot with dry wood, after which they take out all the stones except a few at the bottom, over which they lay several alternate tiers of leaves and flesh, until there is as much above the ground as below. They then throw about two or three quarts of water over all, and confine the steam with old mats and earth so completely that in 20 minutes the flesh is cooked; it is in this way that they cook and cure all their provisions.

The prisoners, the dead and alive flesh, were brought ashore and seated in rows on the beach, the preserved flesh being carried off in baskets to the place appointed for the cannibal feast. It was estimated that about one hundred baskets of flesh were landed, and that each basket contained the equivalent of one human body. Then commenced a dance which was described by an eye-witness:

The warriors, entirely naked, their long black hair, although matted with human gore, yet flowing partially in the wind; in the left hand a human head and in the right hand a bayoneted musket held by the middle of the barrel. Thus, with a song, the terrible expression of which can only be imagined by being heard, did they dance round their wretched victims, every now and then approaching them with gestures, threatening death under its most horrible forms of lingering torture.

The captives, with the exception of one old man and a boy who were sentenced to death, were apportioned amongst the conquering warriors as slaves. The tables were laid. About a hundred baskets of potatoes, a large supply of green vegetables, and equal quantities of whale-blubber and human flesh, constituted the awful menu. The old man, from whose neck suspended the head of his son, while the body formed part of the cannibal feast, was brought forth and subjected to torture from the women before the last scene of all.

The banquet went on to a finish, and, though it proved none the less attractive to the participants, was rendered all the more hideous to the onlookers by the fact that the midsummer season when it took place, added to the hasty and incomplete manner in which the human flesh had been prepared in the ovens, caused the human – yet inhuman- food to become putrid in a most revolting form before it was spread out for the banquet. Officers of the boat witnessed this frightful orgy, and some of them brought to Hobart Town mementoes of the scene, dissected from the bodies as they lay out for the repast.

Garry Hogg, Cannibalism and Human Sacrifice, pp. 197-199

The principal part of the prisoners that day were cripples, women and children; the remainder making their escapes as well as their weak state would allow them (they had been besieged for a considerable time). A party of the enemy were employed in despatching as many as would be sufficient for the evening’s meal; their slaves getting the ovens ready, and the remainder went in search of more prey, which they found to the number of twelve hundred.

On the 23rd, they commenced the slaughter of the prisoners that were taken alive. They were crammed into huts, well guarded, the principal chief executioner, with a sharp tomahawk in his hand, ready to receive them. They were then called out one by one. Those that had well carved or tattooed heads had their heads cut off on a block, the body quartered and hung upon fences that were erected for the purpose. Those with indifferent heads received one blow, and were then dragged to a hole to bleed. The young children, and grown-up lads, were cut down the belly and then roasted on sticks before the fires.

I have, since this bloody deed was committed, paid a visit to the fatal spot to view the remains of this horrid carnage. Within several miles in all directions, are placed in the ground pieces of wood, painted red, as a memorial of the spot where those that that were left behind had some friend or relative slain. On advancing nearer, is a heap of bones, since burned, as near as I can imagine of about 300 persons. Thence to about a quarter of a mile are skeletons, not burned, strewed about the place where the enemy had formed their settlements, and the ovens still remaining where they had been cooked.

I believe they did not eat any flesh inside the place where they butchered them, as I could not see any bones in it; it had not been disturbed since the savages left it [to] pay us a visit. The block they struck the fatal blow on was still remaining, the blood and the notches from the axe were still quite fresh. The trees were stripped of their leaves, and the branches thereof supplied, instead, with dead bodies, cleaned and ready for cooking.

On taking a general view of the place, I observed that the enemy had formed three different settlements, and in each of them was a heap of bones similar to the first I had seen, and also to each, a rack, placed along the spot where they eat their victuals; on it they place the heads of their unfortunate victims, that they may continually keep the objects of their revenge in their sight and mind, which is the continued bloodthirsty practice of this disgraceful race, whose constant study is meditating the death of their fellow-countrymen…

To the gun I was stationed at, they dragged a man slightly wounded in the leg, and tied him hand and foot until the battle was over. Then they loosed him and put some questions to him, which he could not answer, nor give them any satisfaction thereof, as he knew his doom. They then took the fatal tomahawk and put it between his teeth, while another pierced his throat for a chief to drink his blood. Others at the same time were cutting his arms and legs off. They then cut off his head, quartered him and sent his heart to a chief, it being a delicious morsel and they being generally favoured with such rarities after an engagement.

In the meantime, a fellow that had proved a traitor wished to come and see his wife and children. They seized him and served him in like manner. Oh, what a scene for a man of Christian feeling, to behold dead bodies strewed about the settlement in every direction, and hung up at every native’s door, their entrails taken out and thrown aside and the women preparing ovens to cook them! By great persuasion, we prevailed on the savages not to cook any inside the fence, or to come into our houses during the time they were regaling themselves on what they termed sumptuous food – far sweeter, they said, than pork.

On our side, there were eight men killed, three children, and two women, during the siege. They got sixteen bodies, besides a great number that were half roasted, and dug several up out of the graves, half decayed, which they also ate. Another instance of their depravity was to make a musket ramrod red hot, enter it in the lower part of the victim’s belly and let it run upwards, and then make a slight incision in a vein to let his blood run gradually, for them to drink…

I must here conclude, being very scanty of paper; for which reason, columns of the disgraceful conduct of these cannibals remain unpenned

by
Daniel Henry Sheridan
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January 26, 2011 6:04pm
Lucia Maria

Johnboy,

I think I only managed to read half of that before I had to stop!
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January 26, 2011 6:11pm
Johnboy

Put your Sunday cross on Lucia that should give you strength to finish the article. 🙂
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January 26, 2011 6:14pm
Hurf Durf

Hah. If Ebola loses Egypt to the Muslim Brotherhood like Carter lost Iran to the Ayatollahs, he’s fucked. All bets are off.
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January 26, 2011 6:19pm
Johnboy

Israeli IRBM’s at 1500km then Hurf. 🙂
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January 26, 2011 6:21pm
Hurf Durf

Shit or bust? With former allies of convenience and cowed dogs turning, a hostile US administration and a dying Europe, I wouldn’t be surprised. And just after we’d dealt with Iran’s nukes via Stuxnet. How’s that for timing?
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January 26, 2011 6:30pm
Lucia Maria

Johnboy,

I’m going to have to wait until after dinner, otherwise I won’t cook anything.
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January 26, 2011 7:04pm
kowtow

lucia maria @549

Army in exile not allowed to parade.
Very interesting. I thought Churchill went cold on the Soviets especially over Poland and how the Soviet “liberators” were treating the free Poles from London,Warsaw uprising etc. After all that’s why Britain went to war, Poland.

Any links for further reading?
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January 26, 2011 7:11pm
Lucia Maria

Kowtow,

There are. I’ll have to look around. I have books, in particular one by General Anders. I’ll come back later tonight with some links.
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January 26, 2011 7:16pm
Johnboy

I had a couple of bloody tough old pork chops.

I called one grumpy and the other hori.

Made them taste a bit better. 🙂

But even a bucket full of apple sauce failed to sweeten them up much. 🙂
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January 26, 2011 7:17pm
Viking2

# RRM (3,083) Says:
January 26th, 2011 at 12:10 pm

http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/national/4580643/Offender-fools-minders

When a convicted sex offender is so determined to re-offend that he concocts a scheme to dodge his minders and has sex with a 14 year old while he’s still on parole, then it’s time to consider castration.

Jail time hasn’t solved the problem, so try a more direct fix. CHOP!

The rest of the information told the she was a 14 yr old weighing 100+kg and 5 ft 8 in tall and was involved in the planning of this. I guess market meets customer. Why the fuck we get so frenetic over these behaviors escapes me. Its not new, it won’t go away and Chuck will be along to accuse me of being some sort of pedophile or some other obnoxious names he can think of. Chuck has a problem that’s obvious.
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January 26, 2011 7:20pm
Viking2

Diziet Sma (70) Says:
January 26th, 2011 at 12:48 pm

Can Manolo, Johnboy, starboard, Viking2 & friends state which political Party they support?

lol@Ryan Sproull

None of your fucking business. That’s the point about politics in this so far free country. You don’t have to tell anyone else, not even your wife, who you choose to vote for.
If you don’t understand that freedom of choice and don’t like it because it is not like what you believe or where you came from fuck of out of NZ.
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January 26, 2011 7:23pm
dime

redeye – i gave in about 6 months ago and started using facebook. i have a ton of family in oz. easiest way to stay in touch.

as for the houses in st heliers – i suspect it has to do with locals not wanting any developments there.. they couldnt give two fucks about heritage buildings.
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January 26, 2011 7:29pm
Johnboy

I can’t help but stick my oar in here guys but the reason that the Poles where excluded from the 1946 Victory Parade may have something to do with the defeat of good old Winston and the installation of a bunch of slimy socialists under Attlee.

As usual lefties drag down the honour of any society to a much lower level than it attained before they were elected.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/july/26/newsid_3572000/3572175.stm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Victory_Celebrations_of_1946

Attlee had no morals and had to suck up to uncle Joe I guess.

The Poms have always been on the downward spiral since WW2 ended.

The Battle of Britain definitely was their finest hour. 🙂
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January 26, 2011 7:32pm
reid

Nice example of how the rich protect their assets and pay no tax – exposed.

Just precisely why do you think Petricevic’s (of BridgeCorp) home was not owned by himself but by his family trust? (Only one of the many, I wouldn’t be surprised.) The only legal “rocket science” is legally separating the line of control from the beneficiaries and the trustees. Whether it happens in practice or not, doesn’t matter.

If either this or any Liarbore govt campaigned on re-writing the Income Tax Act to catch these practices, which are well known and well practiced, who amongst the voters would complain? They could stamp on it, right now, if they had a will. Either side.
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January 26, 2011 7:34pm
Johnboy

I didn’t mind telling him V2.

He may be a prick but he got away with saying “cunt” on Kiwiblog, won the caption contest and got no demerits. 🙂

That marks him as a commenter of some style who deserves feeding to my way of thinking. 🙂
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January 26, 2011 7:39pm
Viking2

Nah johnboy; don’t feed the sleeze.

Next we will all be under compulsory party voting aka communism.
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January 26, 2011 7:44pm
Lucia Maria

Kowtow,

From Polish veterans to take pride of place in victory parade:

Among the veterans who will march along The Mall on Sunday [July 2005] in a parade marking the 60th anniversary of the end of the second world war, few will participate with the same pride as a contingent of elderly Poles.

For the Poles and their military standards will be present for the first time in a British victory parade. Even though Poland made one of the largest contributions to the Allied war effort and there were thousands of Polish troops stationed in the UK at the time, the country was excluded from the original London celebration in 1946.

Stalin, who had established communist rule in eastern Europe, indicated that he did not wish Poland to be represented and the British authorities agreed for fear of offending their ally.
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January 26, 2011 8:13pm
reid

“…agreed for fear of offending their ally”

Let’s bear in mind the consequences of “offence” in 1946 weren’t the same as they are today.
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January 26, 2011 8:24pm
philu

and that was in 1946…?

..before you were born..?

…the war was full of brutality/injustice…

..to many different peoples/countries..

..what t.f. makes yr ancestors so special..?

..and why tf do you bang on about it the time…?

..in this forum..

…it happened before you were born…

..let’s re-litigate the hundred years war…eh..?

..whyever not…?

it’s sooo relevant…

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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January 26, 2011 8:28pm
nickb

Has anyone heard of Dick Masterson?

Just watched his Dr Phil show… lol
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January 26, 2011 8:28pm
ZenTiger

Phil old chap, it’s not uncommon for people to answer a question when politely asked, and that is what Lucia was doing.

You seem to have the impression that answers are restricted only to the events of the last 5 minutes, or considered “off topic” when posting on a topic called “general debate”, but I don’t think that’s the case.

BTW, with Locke un-stocked from the Greens, why don’t you run for the position?
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January 26, 2011 8:50pm
MyNameIsJack

Just One More Tea Party Idiot

Michelle Bachman, had no idea about the US constitution she supposedly loves, now she tries to rewrite American history she does not understand.

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/01/anderson-cooper-wallops-bachmann-for-flunking-history-with-diversity-comments-video.php?ref=fpb

Michelle Bachman, making Sarah Palin look (semi) Intelligent.
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January 26, 2011 9:08pm
Hurf Durf

Hey JackOff, you found a decent cliff yet?
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January 26, 2011 9:11pm
MyNameIsJack

Oh. My. God.

I did not think there was anything dumber than Palin, but here it is.

Presenting Michelle “Is that in the constitution?” Bachmann

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/41261376#41261376
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January 26, 2011 9:19pm
Johnboy

Palin can’t be that dumb Jack. I bet she is making more in a year than you will ever make in your whole pointless life. 🙂
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January 26, 2011 9:22pm
dad4justice

“God.”

Oh my Jack, didn’t think you were the type to talk about our creator. Palin is kewl eh.
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January 26, 2011 9:25pm
Hurf Durf

I did not think

There’s your problem.
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January 26, 2011 9:31pm
MyNameIsJack

dad, your “creator” should have pulled out and shot you on the blankets.

you are the least worthy piece of gum I scrape from my shoe.

Tell Alex I’ll be over at 8 tomorow night

[DPF: 20 demerits]
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January 26, 2011 9:33pm
Hurf Durf

Heh heh heh.

The best part of JackOff dribbled out onto his parent’s bed.
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January 26, 2011 9:51pm
MyNameIsJack

A woman goes to see her doctor and says “My husband wants a lot of anal sex, and I’m OK with a little, but I’m not sure how much is OK”

The doctor asks “Does it hurt?”

“No”

“Do you mind?”

“No”

“Do you bleed afterwards?”

“No”.

“Well”, says the doctor, “I don’r see a problem, unless you get pregnant”.

“WHAT? I didn’t think you could get pregnat from anal sex!”

“Of course you can”, says the doctor. “Where do you think National Party voters come from?”
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January 26, 2011 10:01pm
Hurf Durf

You fucked up the punchline there, JackOff. It’s “Where do you think Green Party voters come from?”

Speaking of which, here’s some comments on Red Ablurt vis-a-vis Queef Locke’s imminent departure:

“Always a shame to see a man of integrity leave the house.”

“We need people to speak outside of mainstream thought/regurgitation. It makes us question our own leanings and beliefs.”

“Keith Locke had to put up with a lot of unpleasantness over the years, simply because he had the guts to stand up and question the establishment. What’s more… time has proved him right more often than not.”

Oh mah lawd.
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January 26, 2011 10:06pm
MyNameIsJack

You fucked up the punchline there, JackOff.

Nah, it should have been “Where do you think Farrar came from?”
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January 26, 2011 10:10pm
Mr Robert Black

Interesting articles Johnboy.

It is well documented that a decade later an American boat sailing near Whanganui was boarded by Maori warriors.

The captain was an assertive, well spoken chap with short curly hair called Marcus Laws.

The captain was heard to shout, “Just bite me!” to the Maori chief.

Needless to say, it was the last words he ever uttered.
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January 26, 2011 10:12pm
Lucia Maria

Johnboy,

I’ve read it. And I must say I am shocked. I was always under the impression that the Maori of old NZ ate their enemy from battle, not everyone they captured as well. And not as a full-on meal!

All of that makes a mockery of Maori culture that is creeping back into society now.
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January 26, 2011 10:15pm
adze

Queef Locke’s

Lol
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January 26, 2011 10:16pm
dad4justice

“Where do you think Farrar came from?”

Ban this deranged creep FFS!
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January 26, 2011 10:16pm
Jack5

The drums of gloom are beating in Europe. The Telegraph reports Bank of England chief Mervyn King warns Britain’s standard of living is about to plunge at its fastest rate since the 1920s.

Meanwhile in comments under a Telegraph report about Asians buying up EU bonds, is this comment:

This isn’t an EU bond, its a german bond.

I would buy it too, but a real EU bond, you must be joking!!!

Don’t forget New Zealand is in the mix too, its has total debt at 85% of GDP but no EU to bail it out….hence it’s hiding in the corner trying not to be noticed (yes we see you too).

Links:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/financialcrisis/8282038/Asian-investors-lead-massive-demand-for-first-Euro-bail-out-bond.htm

AND

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/8282354/Bank-of-England-chief-Mervyn-King-standard-of-living-to-plunge-at-fastest-rate-since-1920s.html
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January 26, 2011 10:29pm
Jack5

Whoops! one of my links in the 10.29 post didn’t work. Hope this one does:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/financialcrisis/8282038/Asian-investors-lead-massive-demand-for-first-Euro-bail-out-bond.html
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January 26, 2011 10:37pm
Mr Robert Black

I am in Germany and everything is sweet.

Food prices, BOOZE prices, very low.

Put thirty EUROS gas in the car yesterday and went about four hundred KMs on it.

Rent not too bad.

Pay not too bad.

Health and accident insurance and TAX are VERY high though.

And the insurance is mandatory.

Nothing else to report except good beer and sausage.

And the fraulines not too bad on the eye.

Pity can’t speak German yet.
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January 26, 2011 10:42pm
Mr Robert Black

Credit where credit is due, I have to say the Walrus’s interviewing skills are getting better on Close-up.

But still think he is more suited to political reporter.
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January 26, 2011 11:51pm
Offshore_Kiwi

Dime (2.53pm) “Wish we had a New Zealand Day”

We could, and should. It should be January 22, the day civiolisation arrived in New Zealand: http://breakingviewsnz.blogspot.com/2011/01/mike-butler-first-colonist-and-colonist.html
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January 27, 2011 12:44am
Manolo

U.S. politics, the roughest of all games:

The civility show didn’t last long in Congress. Actually, it never really started.

Sure, Republicans and Democrats were able to beat their swords into photo-ops to receive President Obama’s report on the state of the union. Democrats sat with Republicans. Senators sat with House members. Bitterly divided delegations cloistered in the leather-upholstered back benches.

They stood in unison to applaud when Obama spoke of the seat left open between Republican Rep. Jeff Flake and Democratic Rep. Raul Grijalva in honor of their Arizona colleague, Gabrielle Giffords, who is recovering from a failed assassination attempt. Together, they approved of American troops, the rags-to-riches narratives of Obama, Vice President Biden and Speaker Boehner, and the notion that “there isn’t a person here who would trade places with any other nation on Earth.”

But while lawmakers only broke from their playground brawl long enough to earn an “A” in deportment while the teacher was in the room, their offices were releasing a flurry of statements that showed the partisan warfare was lurking right below the surface.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0111/48203.html
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January 27, 2011 7:20am

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