About
Contact
Advertise

Facebook
Twitter

January 19, 2011 8:58am by David Farrar

General Debate 19 January 2011

Email
Facebook
Twitter
Comment107

Uncategorized
General Debate

Comments (107)

Login to comment or vote

Rodders

Will the Maori Party finally say Haere ra to Hone, or will they lose their bottle again?
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10700583

Could it be related to this rant?
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sunday-star-times/opinion/4545920/Crunch-time-for-Maori-grumbles
Feel free to drop him a line on his website, http://www.hone.co.nz (as long as you aren’t pakeha.)
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 9:00am
hj

Interesting article on Dairy farming in Forest and bird:

“To put it in perspective, two decent sized dairy farms can use more water than the whole city of Christchurch.”
http://blog.forestandbird.org.nz/mooo-ving-on-in/
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 9:02am
Inky_the_Red

I think the Maori Party need Hone more than Hone needs the Party
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 9:03am
hj

Queensland floods:
“Little houses made of ticky-tacky: Hill describes the traditional “Queenslander” house design, which is up on stilts. These are, you might guess, quite useful if you’re going to build in a floodplain, and are in other ways designed around local idiosyncrasies (heat, bugs). But they’ve become luxury accommodations, because building on a slab is cheaper and easier. These generic builds aren’t suited to the current conditions. And they aren’t portable:

How Sprawl killed Brisbane
http://www.grist.org/article/2011-01-13-how-sprawl-killed-brisbane-a-report-from-inside-the-flood
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 9:04am
Michaels

Until Hone stops being a mouth piece for his mother, he will always be just another Maori shit.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 9:07am
hj

The Green Party position on the Foreshore and seabed is much closer to Hone Harawira’s than Nationals:
http://www.greens.org.nz/press-releases/denial-customary-rights-unacceptable-say-greens
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 9:08am
AlphaKiwi

Does NZ have a centrist party? Which party would be the closest to be considered a centrist party?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 9:09am
Pete George

Which party would be the closest to be considered a centrist party?

The one that’s in government, whenever.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 9:11am
AlphaKiwi

@Pete George
Haven’t the last two governments been quite along to the left economically?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 9:14am
Pete George

I guess it depends on how you measure “left” (and “right” and “centre”) – and compared to what, history, other countries etc.

The party that appeals to the centre the best is more likley to be elected, but that appeal at election time doesn’t necessarily flow through to actions. And what weight do you put on their actions anyway – some will be more rightish actions, some more leftish, some centrish, which most determine how a government should be viewed?

And keep in mind that ishness is in the eye of the beholder.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 9:25am
ciaron

Can someone please explain why, when given 1200-1500mm lanes, some cyclists insist on riding on the right hand line with ear plugs in and arms folded???
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 9:29am
Inky_the_Red

As a leftie the Labour Party is no further left than the middle of the road.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 9:31am
AlphaKiwi

@ Pete George
I see what you’re saying, but I think borrowing to pay for welfare and general maintenance of the running of the country to keep voters happy may be more of the left where if we were borrowing to to build infrastructure and in general cutting cost where we were able to lower debt would be more of the right. At the moment is seems both National and Labour are borrowing for the former reasons.

Anyway, I think both the main parties have no vision for the country. We may have to do something about it ourselves. 😉
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 9:33am
Adolf Fiinkensein

hj 9.02

“To put it in perspective, two decent sized dairy farms can use more water than the whole city of Christchurch.”

There might be some truth in that if nobody in Christchurch shits or washes for a year.

Nobody who is anybody believes a word Forest and Bird says. They are just another left infiltrated lying pressure group.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 9:36am
jaba

I hope Harawiri gets the arse and goes back to being a silly flag waving racist he is with his mates .. and nephews. Why, because it means we will be paying him dole rates, not $130,000 plus expenses.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 9:42am
Offshore_Kiwi

Alpha (9.09am) the closest party to the traditional “centre” in the current NZ political landscape is ACT. They are a traditional Liberal party (Traditional Liberal, not liberal as the term has been stolen by Progressives).

We may have to do something about it ourselves.

Careful, the fucktards that live here will accuse you of advocating violence. You’ll be put into the same bucket as Redbaiter (not that that isn’t what every right-thinking person here should have as their goal).
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 9:42am
MyNameIsJack

Looks like Pope nazi is about to get his comeuppance, his lies and dissembling over clerical child abuse laid bare for all to see.

A 1997 VATICAN directive rejected a recommendation by the Irish Catholic Church that priests who abused children should be reported to the civil authorities, it has emerged.

The disclosure is made in an RTÉ documentary to be broadcast tonight, which also reports that an Irish bishop described the Vatican directive as “a mandate . . . to conceal the reported crimes of a priest”.

(…)

The programme claims the Vatican and Pope Benedict himself failed to apply the norms of canon law to the issue of child abuse, one of the pope’s major criticisms of Ireland’s bishops. The Vatican failed to do so where two US priests were concerned and the pope did so in 2005 where Fr Marcial Maciel, founder of the Legionaries of Christ, was concerned.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0117/1224287680501.html

Signed by the late Archbishop Luciano Storero, Pope John Paul II’s diplomat to Ireland, the letter instructs Irish bishops that their new policy of making the reporting of suspected crimes mandatory “gives rise to serious reservations of both a moral and canonical nature.”

Storero wrote that canon law, which required abuse allegations and punishments to be handled within the church, “must be meticulously followed.” Any bishops who tried to impose punishments outside the confines of canon law would face the “highly embarrassing” position of having their actions overturned on appeal in Rome, he wrote.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iQmg5wDhFHeRAzpFnG-UvSvb-oZA?docId=b6d56708925949a8a674a8a69d1e30a9

It would be good to see this organisition wound up and its assetts sold and used for the benefit of the many victims of ist systematic and systemic abuse.

(Cue Lucia Maria to accuse me of hatred while she attempts to defend the indefensible).

[DPF: 10 demerits for trolling by using term Pope Nazi]
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 9:45am
Mark

Auckland Grammar’s dumping of NCEA again puts Tolley in the spotlight. It has to be fair to assume that the Board and Headmaster at AG have no confidence in the ministry run and promoted NCEA programme. AG is a state school, not a private college so the minister has a real issue on her hands. Does she, as has been sugested by the teachers union, demand that AG reverts to offering NCEA and sack the board if they refuse to follow the edict or does she support the lack of faith shown in her ministry by the AG Board and management.

Can Tolley perform under pressure? Her track record to date has not been great.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 9:46am
AlphaKiwi

@Offshore_Kiwi
I was thinking more of people forming a centrist party.

It’s sad day if I were to be interpreted as advocating violence from that statement. Thanks for the warning.

Would “libertarian” be a better word to use than “liberal”?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 9:49am
adze

Rodders, I wouldn’t call it a rant, although I did snort when he said “… what is good for Maori is good for the nation”. Depends on how widely you define both Maori and national interests I suppose, and whether he would say the same for other ethnic groups living here.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 9:49am
Pete George

Anyway, I think both the main parties have no vision for the country.

Apart from the current “catch up with Australia” most of the vision seems to be towards November this year.

We may have to do something about it ourselves.

That’s a good idea, use the Internet to collate ideas from what non-politicians would like, a People’s Vision – there will be many variations but to see what most people want to see of New Zealand.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 9:52am
Ryan Sproull

Shit. Big earthquake just hit Pakistan.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 9:53am
BeaB

Mark Don’t believe all you read. There has been no ‘dumping’. AG is still offering NCEA at all levels as they are obliged to do. They also offer Cambridge (the examination board, note. Would it be so popular if it were Birmingham?) that appeals so much to rich snobs who think a qualification designed for former colonies like Botswana must be better for their precious boys.
Labour should have banned state schools from offering alternative quals but didn’t and we are stuck with what has been a very clever marketing exercise that fools the parents, the media and international students.
This is nothing new from John Morris and no-one is going to touch him because the media worship at his feet.
It’s a bit lame trying to beat Tolley with such a feeble stick.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 9:53am
Offshore_Kiwi

Alpha, there is already a Libertarian party in NZ. They have 1000 members and they get 999 voes, because they are a joke.

Any (truly) centrist party in New Zealand would be immediately killed off by the political establishment and the propagandists in the MSM as “too radical”. Think about what they do to ACT (which is hardly “far right” although is labelled thus by the liars in the MSM for purposes of stigmatisation); they would do exactly the same thing to any new party.

What NZ needs is not more crowding around the left (of centre). They already have National and Liarbore there. The looney left is covered by the Watermelons, and the slightly-right-of-centre is covered with ACT (assuming the good people of Epsom have sufficient sense to re-elect Hide this year). The entire landscape is skewed leftwards (thanks mainly to 40 years of social(ist) engineering). What is needed is a Conservative Party. Conservative fiscally and socially. It probably wouldn’t get a massive number of votes, but it may be enough to make the cowards and traitors currently occupying the treasury benches at least take a read of their Values Statements.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 9:54am
Pete George

I was thinking more of people forming a centrist party.

Difficult to get a new party established and with enough credibility and traction. An easier approach is to target some electorates and stand independant candidates, who have electorate backing to work for the electorate and for the country.

It’s bizarre to me that currently up to nearly half of MPs vote in to represent the country seem to put more effort into destablising and destroying the elected government. We need more MPs who will put representation first, not party.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 9:59am
adze

Another turd floats to the surface:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/4554958/Car-theft-accused-turns-camera-shy
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 10:12am
AlphaKiwi

@ Pete George
I know this guy Christopher Mark Wingate is trying to take on the traditional parties by eventually setting up some kind of populist party.

“What would unite people is a shared priority for revitalizing NZ democracy.
This new party positions itself as a populist alternative, seeding itself from Unity through Community.
This new Populist Political Party was launched 5pm October 20th, 2010 on Facebook. This Party is being conceptualized and seeded from the people, and will solidify it’s identity if the demand calls for it, announcing it’s Leader or Co-leaders and team, and list of CORE members as at 5pm June 20th, 2011. How, & whether this process occurs will be determined or influenced by the members.”
Taken from http://www.facebook.com/pages/Free-Photos-X/131692036890644?v=wall#!/pages/A-New-Populist-Political-Party/154935121208186?v=wall

I think he’s more pissed with the lack of democracy than anything else.

@ Offshore_Kiwi

It does seem that in general that Kiwis seem to be slightly to the left. I know all my social contacts are regardless whether they’re professionals or general employees. There seems to be something in the Kiwi psyche.

I see there was an attempt at a Conservative Party in NZ, but do to personality conflicts it seems to have not got National’s support.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_Conservative_Party
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 10:13am
Manolo

The loon passing as mayor of Wellington attempts to choke the Wellington economy. All in accordance with the Luddite Green’s grand plan:

Cars could be banned from Courtenay Place under a proposal from Wellington Mayor Celia Wade-Brown.

The move would affect about 6500 private vehicles that use Courtenay Place on weekdays. It is aimed at creating a more reliable bus service and lifting bus use.

A shop-owner says it is an “absolutely ridiculous” plan that would hit retailers and was for a traffic problem that did not exist.

Ms Wade-Brown’s proposal is a revival of a bus priority plan that was ditched in 2008 and eventually replaced by the Manners Mall bus lanes.

The 2008 plan contained five options to restrict private vehicle access in Courtenay Place, the most drastic of which was to close it between 6am and 6pm.

Ms Wade-Brown believes the council should now consider closing it round the clock. “It is probably sensible to consult on the complete range of fixes, but I would take a lot of convincing it should be 24/7,” she said yesterday.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/4555018/Plan-by-mayor-to-curb-cars
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 10:25am
Manolo

Another peaceful citizen makes the news: the criminal who attacked the pair of good samaritans.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/national/4554958/Car-theft-accused-turns-camera-shy/
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 10:31am
Manolo

A young criminal and deviant in the making: http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/south-island/4552696/Teen-caught-by-police-wearing-stolen-undies

A Blenheim teenager who fled from the police on foot, running through several properties, was eventually found wearing a woman’s bathrobe and panties.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 10:38am
bhudson

So Kate Gainsford calls for Tolley to sack Auckland Grammar BoT because they are not toeing the NCEA line.

I suppose it is good that she is calling for schools to toe the line on Ministry edicts. I am sure, for consistency, she will be in the press tomorrow calling for the immediate sacking of any BoTs not fully complying with National Standards.

(Or perhaps her complaint is actually against competition that might arise through broader public school availability of the likes ofthe Cambridge and International Baccalaureate programs?)
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 10:55am
transmogrifier

I say good for Auckland Grammar.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 11:03am
philu

(this is an interesting period-piece…

..martin luther king is interviewed on a chat-show…in 1967…

http://whoar.co.nz/2011/martin-luther-king-jr-on-the-mike-douglas-show-in-1967/

(it’s worth watching just for the wallpaper…)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 11:17am
MyNameIsJack

The Wassilla Wannabe has been back on the FUX network, crying crocodile tears.

Yes people, the Arizona shooting IS all about her.

SARAH Palin has dismissed criticism of her after the Arizona shooting as efforts by the ”lamestream media” and the political left to divert attention from tough issues that face America.

In Monday night’s interview, the Tea Party favourite insisted the criticism of her was a diversionary tactic of the left

Yep, all about her, nothing about the victims of this slaughter she inspired.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 12:26pm
Viking2

Seems like we can’t have lunch at the top of any hill anymore. what a bunch of superstitous clowns we have running the place.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/4556279/Summit-cook-up-offends
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 12:34pm
MyNameIsJack

And yet another moan from the Idaho Potato Head –

“I receive a lot of death threats and my children do and that’s the worst part of it as I’m sure you can imagine,” she said.

Yeah, poor Sarah, especially when we recall what the US Secret Service had to say about her.

The Republican vice presidential candidate attracted criticism for accusing Mr Obama of “palling around with terrorists”, citing his association with the sixties radical William Ayers.

The attacks provoked a near lynch mob atmosphere at her rallies, with supporters yelling “terrorist” and “kill him” until the McCain campaign ordered her to tone down the rhetoric.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/sarah-palin/3405336/Sarah-Palin-blamed-by-the-US-Secret-Service-for-death-threats-against-Barack-Obama.html

That’s not lipstick and salad dressing around her mouth, its the blood of innocents.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 12:34pm
jinpy

BeaB,

Is it possible that NCEA isn’t that great? I have no personal involvement in it, but would be interested in the perception of its success or failure.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 12:36pm
backster

I also support Auckland Grammar,not only is complete uniformity dull, grey, and uninspiring,but for the benefits of NCEA to be truly appreciated it is necessary to have a control group to measure the achievements of the students against in subsequent study and life achievements.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 12:38pm
ciaron

That’s not lipstick and salad dressing around her mouth, its the blood of innocents.

Fuck, you talk some bullshit.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 12:39pm
RightNow

MyNameIsJared, you seriously need some psychiatric help
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 12:42pm
big bruv

Speaking of things Maori….

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/4556279/Summit-cook-up-offends

Don’t worry about the endless line of child killings….let’s get all upset about some stupid fucking tradition.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 12:43pm
gravedodger

hj @ 9 02 Bit late to read your comment so apology.
Your point being.
Had you stood on the SH 1 Rakaia bridge December 27, 28, 29 0f 2010 you would have noticed enough water pass by to run Christchurch city and many dairy farms for a very long time, instead it all ran out to the Pacific ocean.
Throw in the Waitaki, Rangatata, Waimakariri, Hurunui, Waiau and the Clarance you might see a trend here.
Canterbury is no where near to running out of water FFS, too much bloody water runs out of Canterbury all the bloody time, virtually untouched.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 12:43pm
ciaron

Just yesterday, the Avon was running 10-12″ high…
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 12:52pm
Ryan Sproull

Here’s some footage of the Avon, showing just how dangerous it can get.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ow4cJ3LDQtM
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 1:17pm
MyNameIsJack

ryan, that is very uinfair, dissing one of the all time greatest space cowboy shows.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 1:25pm
Ryan Sproull

No dissing. Avon is my hero.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 1:27pm
Manolo

He said the summit barbecue was disappointing because the young people there probably didn’t realise or hadn’t learnt that the mountain and especially the summit is a very sacred place for iwi of Taranaki.

“We discourage camping at the summit and try to make people aware that the very highest part is the most sacred of all – and ask climbers to avoid standing there.

“There’s a difference too between eating prepared food for sustenance and actually cooking on the summit,” he said.

The absolute stupidity of some Maori “leaders” will have them anchored in the Stone Age forever. So many important problems to solve, but, hey, the bloody mountain is more important.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 1:27pm
jinpy

I wonder whether some of the tapu around Taranaki arose due to a genuine need to respect the mountain. It might seem superstitious in today’s environment admittedly.

Also, what was the historical means of instituting tapu — was it a decision by the chief, and did it apply to other tribes? Were tapus lifted sometimes or did the rules around them change?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 1:36pm
RRM

@ Big Bruv – I believe that, in order to be culturally acceptable, cooking on top of a mountain has to be cannibalistic:

http://www.remuera.org.nz/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=53&Itemid=92
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 1:40pm
adze

My understanding is it is simply considered the “head” of Taranaki, and the head is considered the most sacred part of a body in Te Ao Maori.

But I’ve stood on the summit too.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 1:41pm
3-coil

..the Black Keys must be feeling off colour
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 1:49pm
virtualmark

For all those playing along at home in Wellington …

Go to http://www.metservice.com/towns-cities/wellington and take a look at what the MetService thinks the temperature is here in Wellington right now. 21.9 degrees? Really???
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 1:51pm
MyNameIsJack

Ryan Sproull (4,030) Says:

January 19th, 2011 at 1:27 pm
No dissing. Avon is my hero.

Weird. Mine, too.

Then I grew up and thought Vila was more my level of aspiration. 🙂
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 2:00pm
Ryan Sproull

Then I grew up and thought Vila was more my level of aspiration.

My aspiration was Soolin, but it was a different kind of aspiration from yours.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 2:02pm
MyNameIsJack

And I *always* preferred Servalan. Something about taming the wilderbeest, I guess.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 2:04pm
adze

I liked Avon too, though also Orac, even though it was just an AI.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 2:08pm
Ryan Sproull

OH GOD THE BLAKE’S 7 PEOPLE ARE HIJACKING GENERAL DEBATE AGAIN!

Orac was great. I think the same guy did the voices of Orac, Zen and Slave.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 2:16pm
RightNow

I suppose it could be worse, you could be reminiscing over Space 1999
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 2:19pm
Ryan Sproull

Now there’s a show whose title dated it pretty quickly.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 2:30pm
Put it away

WTF, which inanimate piece of rock is more sacred that which other inanimate bit of rock? Horseshit.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 2:33pm
tom hunter

Now there’s a show whose title dated it pretty quickly.

Something that will be more jarring with every passing year when seeing the opening lines Los Angeles, 2019 in a somewhat better movie – Blade Runner.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 2:40pm
adze

“somewhat better movie – Blade Runner”

Rutger Hauer’s most compelling role, I reckon.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 2:43pm
Ryan Sproull

They should all go with what Gattaca did:

“In the not-too-distant future…”
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 2:51pm
MyNameIsJack

Orac was great. I think the same guy did the voices of Orac, Zen and Slave.
</i?

Peter Tuddenahm. Died 2007
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 2:51pm
BeaB

jinpy
First of all, remember that your high school qualifications are the least important you will get in your life (or else something has gone badly wrong) and no-one gives a toss when you are 25 what you got for SCert or UE or NCEA Level 2 or whatever. So parents can relax.
NCEA is a much tidier qual than the previous ones which became a mishmash of internal assessment, exams, scaling, gatekeeping etc. It also has the distinction of being the first exam system in the world that handed back marked papers for candidates and teachers to see – a great example of transparency.

With NCEA kids of all abilities can tailor the right course and achieve at the level they are capable of. I have seen average kids so heartened by their Y11 results they have gone on to much higher levels of further education than they ever would have under the old 49% bad 51% good system we used to have.

As we get older we have to accept we didn’t live in a golden age and schools have to move with the times even if it is a bit confusing for those of us who like the comfort of old certainties we could understand. NCEA is internationally recognised and has freed our high schools to offer kids excellent curriculum choices.

If they slack off a bit occasionally who cares especially if they are excelling elsewhere though in my experience high achievers are high achievers inside the classroom and outside – on the sportsfield, stage or in the orchestra.

Cambridge exams are a clever con to appeal to people who like paying through the nose for what the rest of us enjoy ‘free’. Grammar are outstanding marketers and self-promoters and know exactly the buttons to push for their demographic. Like the posh little schools that offer the expensive International Baccalaureat. Again, good marketing. I am not saying they are bad quals but they are no better in the end than NCEA. A bit like foreign cars really.

It’s only the media and certain age groups who bang on about NCEA. The kids are doing very well indeed.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 2:55pm
AlphaKiwi

I went to Auckland Grammar in the 90’s and was forced to learn Latin FFS. Grammar really is a 19th century exam orientated school. I was so ill-equipped when I went into tertiary education and bombed in my first semester. After that, I soon learnt the value of intrinsic motivation as opposed to extrinsic motivation. I wasn’t used to thinking for myself and managing time-study balance. My grades were fine at Grammar, but counted for nothing in the real world.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 3:04pm
tom hunter

I see that for all the whining about GD being hijacked with religious debates, it’s actually hardline atheist, MyNameIsJackoff, who has tried to ignite one for several days in a row.

Now it’s Palin.

That’s not lipstick and salad dressing around her mouth, its the blood of innocents.

In this case though I’ll have to bite – although the funny thing is that, as right-winger, I could make a better argument against her than a dimbulb like Borker does when he repeats crap he must know by now is completely false.

The claim about the death threats of “kill him” at her rallies, and the Secret Service blaming Palin for this are, in fact, a complete inversion of the truth and were debunked as long ago as October 17, 2008 – Secret Service says Kill him allegation unfounded. In fact it turns out that only one person heard this, and that was a single reporter for the Scranton Times-Tribune. No one else at the rally recalls hearing it, including the Secret Service detail that listens for just that kind of threat:

The agent in charge of the Secret Service field office in Scranton said allegations that someone yelled “kill him” when presidential hopeful Barack Obama’s name was mentioned during Tuesday’s Sarah Palin rally are unfounded.

But credit where credit is due: Troll, thy mission is accomplished.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 3:04pm
tom hunter

Interesting comment Alpha. It’s something me and my friends observed about a number of AG boys at varsity, including some who had got University Scholarship. They just imploded in their first year – although it’s fair to say that the brains and ability were there and they all recovered to gain degrees and go on to do well in varsity and life.

But certainly they seemed to have been force-fed through the exam system and it did them no favours.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 3:10pm
philu

“..wasn’t used to thinking for myself ..”

so..rightwing politics seemed like a natural fit…?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 3:14pm
AlphaKiwi

@ tom hunter

Yeah, I came right in the end and graduated from Otago Polytechnic before graduating with an A- average from Otago Uni. Although Latin scarred me, at Uni I picked up Mandarin and then moved to China and became fluent in it. So, the damage, as you said, isn’t irreparable. 🙂
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 3:15pm
jinpy

BeaB — agreed, qualifications are the least of our problems. Quality of the teacher and curriculum is more relevant, and whether we are creating innovators etc. Agreed, success at school can also count for nought in the long run.

But I think the perception of NCEA is that its possibly too easy and doesn’t create enough of a challenge for the smarter kids, or is the same level taught as in the past?

Also, why do we need to make all children feel like they have achieved even if in reality their level of ability is actually only average? Is your motivation anecdote really borne out in any studies?

For example, I could also argue that children might be better served for later in life if they appreciated a more realistic marker of attainment which require serious work to achieve, rather than being rewarded for only achieving a modest level of attainment…?

Also, why the mocking of Cambridge exams? They may be traditional and not for everyone but they are actually very challenging, why not let accomplished students take them to go further than the NCEA syllabus?

By what measure are our kids doing very well indeed?

I would say if a referendum were held tomorrow, NCEA would struggle to get a mandate. Why is this, or do you disagree>?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 3:25pm
Ryan Sproull

Last weekend I went into a bookstore with the intention of buying a Year 13 NCEA algebra revision textbook. I plan to teach myself all that stuff that I’ve either forgotten or never knew.

I looked at the first few pages, put it down and went looking for a Year 11 one.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 3:29pm
tom hunter

Oh – and before I drop the topic completely. The article that MNIJ/Borker linked to has another untruthful aspect to it, as follows:

– the report contradicts it’s own headline because it does not quote the Secret Service ever saying any such thing and the Telegraph‘s story didn’t actually say that they had said it either.

– the Telegraph reporter Tim Shipman was paraphrasing a Newsweek account of the campaign.

– the Newsweek story itself was quoting not the Secret Service, but Obama adviser Gregory Craig in mid-October expressing concern about “the frenzied atmosphere at the Palin rallies.”

– the same paragraph of the Newsweek story asserted (without attribution) that the Obama campaign had been “provided with reports from the Secret Service showing a sharp and very disturbing increase in threats to Obama in September and early October.”

In short, it was the Obama campaign, not the Secret Service, which originally suggested a connection between the “frenzied atmosphere” around Palin and the threats. Sound familar?

And at the end of this chain – from the Obama 2008 campaign to Newsweek non-attribution to Telegraph paraphrasing – lie the gleefully panting recipients of the Palin Derangement Syndrome club. I’d credit him and others as simply being poor liers but that would be giving credit for being smart enough to know the story was bullshit.

I guarantee you these facts won’t stop this meme being repeated again, and again, and…….
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 3:31pm
MyNameIsJack

I guarantee you these facts won’t stop this meme being repeated again, and again, and…….

Of course it won’t, just like the meme that the Idaho Potato Head is a viable POTUS candidate…..
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 3:38pm
philu

palin is just part of a larger rightwing problem..

..namely years of violence-drenched imagry/urgings…

.. http://whoar.co.nz/2011/why-right-wing-fearmongers-have-blood-on-their-hands/

“…The Right bears the lion’s share of the blame for creating a toxic environment in which unstable people come to believe their political opponents are pure evil.

For some time now, it’s been something of a reflexive response by media pundits – particularly conservatives and “moderate” liberals –

– to point to mental illness when some violent and unstable person commits a horrifying act in the name of extremist right-wing beliefs.

If they’re just mentally ill – you can’t blame the people whose ideas they happened to pick up –

– can you?…”

phil(whoar.co.nz)
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 3:39pm
llew

“Pete George (8,763) Says:
January 19th, 2011 at 9:11 am
Which party would be the closest to be considered a centrist party?

“The one that’s in government, whenever.””

Brilliant. Probably says more about voters than the parties.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 3:40pm
Falafulu Fisi

BeaB said…
They also offer Cambridge (the examination board, note. Would it be so popular if it were Birmingham?) that appeals so much to rich snobs.

Wrong! It appeals to students who want a real challenge, in what they’re learning which is irrelevant if they’re poor or rich. It is their brains that make them want to step up and take the challenge. I’m coaching some kids for year 13 Cambridge Math Exams @ end of this year. If you compare the Cambridge curriculum & NCEA (in Maths , Statistics, Physics – the ares I’m familiar with), the curriculum content is wider in scope & more depth (ie, more advanced & difficult topics that are included) . An example is the Cambridge year 13 Mechanics papers (2 of them) are the same curriculum level as the 1st year Engineering Mechanics papers that they taught for B.E students @ University of Auckland Engineering School. The Cambridge Exam Mechanics papers are counted as Pure Mathematics papers, ie Mathematics 9709/04 (Mechanics 1) and Mathematics 9709/05 (Mechanics 2). Note that there is no equivalent of those papers in the NCEA, well except the Mechanics section in the NCEA Physics, but this section is tiny, because it also covers together with other topics (optics, electromagentism, gravitation, etc,…).

So, I reckon that’s got nothing to do with snobbishness, but purely for the purpose of targeting high achievements and who wouldn’t pursue those goals or exams if you’re a parent? So, I can definitely see why AG’s board (& parents) do support the move.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 3:41pm
kowtow

jinpy,
Some years ago maybe even 5 or so,not sure,North and South did some excellent articles on NCEA.

In essence it’s not about education it actually boils down to a socialist notion of giving something to everyone. The exam system was said to fail some 30% of students. The architect of NCEA,a Scottish education official who rose to prominence here felt soory for the 30% of failures who left school with nothing and wanted a less exam based system that recognised whatever work you did do. Fine in theory and has some merit. Devil is in the detail.

The marking system leaves alot to be desired. A student can show he understands the problem and shows correct method,in the old exam system a marker might give that student 80 or 90% but in Ncea as the student hasn’t shown the correct answer at “achieve level” his overall mark might be pulled right down, this is one of the complaints about demotivating good students. Another problem is un motivated students choosing easy subjects just to get by.It leads to points shopping rather than education.
There’s a bias to Maori also. You can show required literacy through Maori,but this is not accorded to other foreign language subjects such as Spanish,German or French.

For a system that was introduced to pass every one it has failed miserably. Some 50% of NCEA Level 1 students now do not “achieve”,surely that is the greatest indictment of a dumed down education system. Something really is rotten in the state of Denmark. And English is not compulsory at Year 13,Why not? We don’t value it !
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 4:00pm
BeaB

Jinpy Yes. And how could you not mock Cambridge? It is real colonial cringe!
Mind you, I am not of the school that thinks a bracing bit of failure does much good for any teenager.
At the beginning it was interesting how many bright kids complained because for once they couldn’t get by with 80%; they actually had to get it all correct. In fact, I coasted all through school and university. Once you learned the rules of the game, it was very easy to get the marks. And that was under the old exam system which allowed a year of loafing with a bit of cramming at the end. Which many lazy boys would like back.
National brought in NCEA led by David Hood who was actually from Yorkshire. Perhaps it’s a coincidence John Morris is a Pom too – and a soccer player.
Kids these days face far more exams and tests than we ever did. North and South peddled a shallow, duplicitous series of articles which made me give up on the rag – always an unpleasantly bitchy tone too.

You would be surprised, kowtow, for how many years English has not been compulsory at any level but now literacy is.

I think our teachers have done a superb job of building NCEA into a world class qualification but as always there are the knockers – some ill-informed and some manipulating. I suspect most opponents of NCEA know bugger all about it.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 4:29pm
RightNow

I see 46 year old Martin Devlin is back from his holiday now.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 4:50pm
magic bullet

The world is run by pedophiles! I knew it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7qTBkA8X_E
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 4:52pm
jinpy

BeaB,

Ah well, perhaps it is an improvement to work consistently throughout the year, more realistic for a job. I was always of the study at last minute style, although I did pay attention to the teachers. University was tough though and I definitely had to pull finger. Mind you I studied physics, maths and chemistry, which tend to be tougher to get good marks in than a lot of other courses.

I think kowtow raises some good points about the one achieve level and shopping for courses, although this happened previously as well as it has always been known that some courses are harder to get good marks than others.

In regards to ‘colonial cringe’, how can the content of an exam paper really be that political as to warrant such a phrase?
Also, is it really only ‘lazy boys’ that cram at the end, isn’t this a bit of a gender stereotype? Is the new system then a rebalancing in favour of the girls over the old system, which was better for boys?

I actually think, on some days the whole system needs to go further in changing — for example, how can we encourage innovation, leadership, collaboration, problem solving, critical thinking…
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 5:07pm
BeaB

jinpy
Most girls who do well at school work hard all year. That was one of the reasons for the structure of NCEA – to get boys working all year so they didn’t face a mammoth hurdle at the end of the year.
I was a lazy girl so loved the end of year cram. I would hate the whole-year grading systems now used in our schools and universities.
It’s not the content of Cambridge that is colonial cringe but the belief by many that our own systems can’t possibly be as good as those of Mother England, cleverly played on by John Morris and others.
In the 60’s I took biology rather than physics because I knew it was easier but it gave me the science mark I needed for my uni course so why blame todays kids for doing the same. However, the bright ones know they still need the hard subjects as preparation for tertiary qualifications.
Listening to some people, you would think we all took the tough choices and worked like mad at school. In fact, kids today work far harder than we did, with constant assessments throughout the year.
I love the old idea of the liberal education – a lot of everything, learning for learning’s sake, a bit of intellectual challenge, plenty of chances for arts and sports etc etc.
Much better than saddos standing round in their 30’s boasting about the results they got at school for FFS. Perhaps they even put SC and UE after their names!
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 5:52pm
bereal

Now that Rob Pope, deputy police commissioner, has got the message and resigned,
will any light be shined on the methodoligy of promotion with the commissioned level of NZ Police.

For example, my personal opinion is that Scott Watson was guilty of the sounds murders
but the crown, or police, never actually proved it. Straight up.

Does anyone ever consider how much a given officer, motivated by driving ambition, will go to any lengths
to obtain a conviction in a cause celebre to advance their career ?

Not that i’m suggesting that is what happened in that case.

Now Pope has gone it will be instructive to see if further facts about that case float to the surface.

As another corressponent put it, “like a turd “
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 5:57pm
bereal

bea b @ 5.52
Have a look at the letter to the editor of the NZ Herald today from Katrina van Boheemen,
you might learn something.

By the way, how many homes did you require police protection to visit when you were a teacher.
As you stated you did.

You should try not to let your political bias, or dogma, cloud your cognative abilty.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 6:10pm
Viking2

Not possible that he was guilty as they described. Read Hunters book.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 6:23pm
Viking2

Did you ever notice that Winston Peters and Rob Pope both have the same type of eye features’ Hoods!!
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 6:25pm
thedavincimode

Yes V2. But only one of them IS a hood.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 6:38pm
Viking2

Ha, are you trying to tell me that Winston isn’t a hood?

I see the National Parties re balancing of the economy is working really well. 20% youth unemployment,(plus the other 20=30 still in “education” and now this little gem.

More people on benefits

Wednesday, 19, Jan, 2011 4:48PM

The number of people receiving a benefit rose by over 10,000 in the month of December last year.

Figures out today show there are over 352,000 people on welfare. Those on the unemployment benefit rose by 4,500, with the total at just over 67,000.

Social development minister Paula Bennett says more than half of the increase is driven by young people completing education or training and looking for work.

Only about half so that means there are now less jobs by 5000 or so. HMM stunning results.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 7:09pm
reid

More on Blair’s lies leading the UK into the Iraq war, for those interested.

Bhudson let me know if you’re interested in pursuing the question you raised last night on GD. Assume you read the response from CrazyIvan.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 7:17pm
Viking2

THE COSTS

A 4.2 per cent food price rise in year to December.

A 5.5 per cent rise in fruit and vegetables.

A 4.9 per cent rise in grocery food.

A 3.2 per cent rise in meat, poultry and fish.

91 octane petrol: $1.99.

Diesel: $1.36.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 7:42pm
Pete George

Reid, that’s a strong statement against Blair, interesting to see how he responds later in the week. I think Blair was told by the US that they were going in to Iraq regardless, and he decided to go with them and fudged whatever he could to try and make it look legitimate.

This must be a dilemma for some, hard to back the war and diss what seems to be leftie lies that contributed to the war.

Interesting that the US doesn’t seem to have any interest in investigating their illegal acts going to war.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 8:20pm
reid

Interesting that the US doesn’t seem to have any interest in investigating their illegal acts going to war.

Well to be fair Pete no US politician can touch it at the mo cause to do so is “unpatriotic.”

Wait till they withdraw, then watch the fur fly.

But when that happens prepare for complete utter and total silence on who were the real instigators and the real winners.

That’s also “unpatriotic” not to mention dangerous.

This must be a dilemma for some, hard to back the war and diss what seems to be leftie lies that contributed to the war.

Yes, until people ditch their ideology at the door when they enter the geopolitical realm, and realise their favoured side often acts just as excrebly as the “opposition” ever did, the scales will never fall from their eyes.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 8:39pm
Hurf Durf

it actually boils down to a socialist notion of giving something to everyone.

Pretty much.

building NCEA into a world class qualification

lol
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 8:42pm
reid

Words of wisdom on Iran from former IAEA chief, who would probably know more about Iran’s nuclear capabilities than your average Kiwiblogger.

Unfortunately, as usual, no-one listens because it’s NOT WHAT THEY WANT TO HEAR.

Iran was one of the most important countries in the Middle East, which could become “a key to the stability in the Middle East. Without Iran’s participation, it is also hard to solve the Afghanistan issue and the Syria-Lebanon complex”, ElBaradei said.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 9:05pm
philu

“…what seems to be leftie lies that contributed to the war…”

what exactly are those ‘leftie lies’ that contributed to that war…

…all the lying was done by the right…

..it was the left that was calling those lies..

..phil(whoar.co.nz)
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 9:10pm
bereal

pete george @ 8.20
Brilliant.
‘Interesting.” Thats a strong statement.’ Interesting.
Very interesting.
Now up to 8767 posts and still has not said ONE thing INTERESTING yourself.
Not one origional thought.
Why do you bother ?
Still it is INTERESTING.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 9:11pm
bhudson

reid,

I did manage to read through some of it today. It was good of CrazyIvan to post the link.

While the report notes no ‘smoking gun’ evidence for tight links between Iraq and al Qaeda it states it did find evidence that Iraq was supporting al Qaeda and groups associated with it where i) Iraq could control the relationship & activities and ii) where their respective interests overlapped. They noted evidence to show links between Iraq and other terrorist groups – their contention was not so much that Iraq didn’t have links with al Qaeda as that it had stronger links with other terrorist groups.

There are a number of arguments the US could use – some semantic, some less so – as to justify the action with respect to terrorism. One such is that they were fighting a ‘war on terror’, not a ‘war on ‘al Qaeda’ – their contention that Iraq was supporting terrorists groups is borne out by that report.

Do I agree that they used convenient links – some strong, some very circumstantial – to justify their actions? Yes I do, but that is not all inconsistent with my fundamental premise yesterday that the US would, and did, act in what they perceived as their interests, and as any other nation would (albeit other nations might not see the need for the same actions.)

Happy to continue the conversation on the topic of US action against Iraq and related matters. I am interested to know what you think the US motivations really were and also your view on the conundrum of creating an uncomfortable religious power balance, particularly viz-a-vis Saudi and the somewhat religious alignment between Iraq and Iran.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 9:14pm
bereal

Oh shit
Now the moron philu minces onto the stage with a typical insightfull gem.
FFS
Goodnite.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 9:16pm
tom hunter

I am interested to know what you think the US motivations really were….

For many, long-time readers of Kiwiblog this will be fun, though I should warn bhudson that at some point Reid is probably going to request an email exchange with you so that he can discuss his deepest thoughts…..privately.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
January 19, 2011 9:24pm

More comments:

1
2
›

Add a Comment Cancel reply

Login to comment or vote

« Denis Dutton tributes

The Police report »

Donations

You can now donate to Kiwiblog

Exclusive content from DPF on Patreon

Become a Patron!

Never miss a post

Email Address

Join 37.4K other subscribers

Highlights

Health Target 5 – elective treatments
Health Target 4 – Specialist appointments
Health Target 3 – Emergency Dept Waiting Times
Health Target 2 – Immunisations

Links

More lawlessness from National
No Right Turn
Shock & Surprise: Lawyers oppose removal of lawyers' gravy train
Not PC
Trumping the Electric Vehicle Mandate
Utopia
Seymour’s bill split the House – but (as is shown by the 68-54 vote after an ill-tempered debate) not “down the middle”
Point of Order
Thankfully we said nope to dope
Bob McCoskrie's McBlog
Daily review 15/11/2024
The Standard
MEDIAWATCH: Willie Jackson’s fiery speech that had Gallery cheering
The Daily Blog
Government only partially adheres to Waitangi Tribunal order, as tensions heat up
No Minister
Sowell says
Hompaddock
A NEW DEGREE COURSE FOR MASSEY
No Punches Pulled (Bob Jones)
A Day of Reckoning
NZCPR
Media Link: “A View from Afar” on the US elections.
Kiwipolitico
This will not end well
Offsetting Behaviour
Top 14 Predictions for Round 10
Stats Chat
Pretty (il)legal
Croaking Cassandra
Tory Whanau may have to sell Wellington mayoralty to make ends meet
The Civilian
The Accidental Engagement
Imperator Fish
Legal Beagle: Election '23: The Special Votes
Public Address
Making this movie might have been a mistake
Liam Hehir
Why I am retiring from political blogging
Kiwi FireWalker
Angie Warren-Clark: Meet the Newbies
Dan Moskovitz

editor@kiwiblog.co.nz

PO Box 12270, Thorndon, Wellington 6144

Facebook
Twitter
FourSquare
Instagram
LinkedIn
Google+

Archives
Disclosure Statement
Editorial Policy
Privacy Policy
Complaints Policy
Comments Policy

Design by cre8d