General Debate 4 December 2010

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Thrash Cardiom

Morning all. Benefit fraudsters at work: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10691971

Interesting that they have only charged 16 people after investigating 250,000 deaths. That’s a fairly low level of fraud.
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December 4, 2010 8:04am
Pete George

“The first serious infowar is now engaged, the field of battle is WikiLeaks. You are the troops.”

Or – the sideshows have begun in earnest. All the DDOS attacks, withdrawal of service from web providers and associated publicity are surely sparks and flames in another building. Don’t Wikileaks feed news outlets with the leaked data anyway? The information is released via them. Are they going to be attacked and denied?

It mustn’t be solely an anti-West campaign – amongst the most embarrassed so far seem to be the Russians. Surprise surprise, they have corruption.
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December 4, 2010 8:26am
Yvette

“Labour is calling for an Auditor- General’s investigation into Pansy and Sammy Wong’s use of the MPs’ travel perk after dismissing as a “whitewash” a report yesterday that cleared them of any serious misuse of the entitlement .
The Parliamentary Service investigation, conducted by former senior public servant Hugh McPhail, found “no evidence of systemic abuse” of the travel allowance by Mrs Wong, a former Cabinet minister, or her businessman husband.”

Goofy has considerable grounds to doubt the finding of any inquiry into anything – I mean, he stood by while Helen arranged the Ingram sham investigation of Phillip Field, which of course whitewashed him until he committed his real crime : commenting to the media that he might run against the Labour Party in a future election.
Lie [pun intended] with mongrels, Goofy, and . . .
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December 4, 2010 8:29am
Brian Smaller

It is a beautiful morning here in Ngaturi. Bacon and eggs (eggs fresh from the chickens yesterday) for breakfast. Yesterday my son topped his year group at his school in science for 2nd year in a row. Got morning of building garden and path edging with the lad and then plan to spend the rest of the afternoon lounging by/in the pool drinking my well earned beers. How is your Sat shaping up?
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December 4, 2010 8:30am
Brian Smaller

Pete Geroge – the Americans will huff and puff and spin. The Russians will put a poison umbrella up Assange’s arse. He is fucked no matter what happens. His best bet is probably protective custody in the US.
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December 4, 2010 8:32am
RobbieBlack

My China movie debut.

I played a Western guy stealing gunpowder to later use to decimate China.

See, Hong Kong Phooey, you were right about the evil west.

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMjE5MDI0MDMy.html

Sixteen minutes in, the first foreigner is me.

I have a huge TV series after this, Xia Nan yan.
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December 4, 2010 8:43am
grumpyoldhori

Yep should be the Auditor- General, she would find every bloody politician went over the top when it came to costs.
Come on people it is easy, if they are bloody MPs they must be guilty, left, centre and right.
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December 4, 2010 8:44am
tom hunter

Since the weather is fairly overcast here I might go back to tackling the door small disaster zones of “garden” on either side of the garage entrance. Half an hour’s work with the chainsaw and weedwacker on Thursday cleared the deck – but now I’m a little stymied on my original plan! Landscaping – love/hate.

Aside from that: continuing to build the new pantry from all my old Kauri timbers, putting together a music CD for my sister-in-law in the US, continuing video editing, checking out the great new bike paths with my daughter and youngest son (the eldest son is recovering from his last day of school -heh, heh, heh).

A vegetative weekend in other words!!
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December 4, 2010 8:46am
pdm

he first UK politician was convicted today for misuse of Parliamentary Funds. Sentenced in January – up to 7 years Jail.
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December 4, 2010 8:48am
Thrash Cardiom

Mr Wong has racked up 358 trips around the country in 12 years. That’s a hell of a lot of holidays.
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December 4, 2010 8:52am
Jack5

The NZ film industry is not worth the hundreds of millions in subsidies NZ gives it. This is a gravy train for two media darlings – Peter Jackson and Weta Workshops.

Now the American unions are threatening to oppose a free trade agreement with NZ because of the film industry labour shenanigans (link below). And before one of the contractors exempted from NZ industrial law again belly aches that tax breaks aren’t subsidies, I list some definitions of “subsidy” below.

It’s amusing how allegedly free-enterprise political parties back these subsidies.

Are tax breaks subsidies? Some authoritative definitions of “subsidy” –

Investopedia:

A benefit given by the government to groups or individuals usually in the form of a cash payment or tax reduction.

Shorter Oxford Dictionary (first):

Help, aid, assistance; an instance of this

Collins Dictionary of Business:

The provision of finance and other resources by the government or a firm to support a business activity of person. Subsidies can be direct (cash grants, interest-free loans etc) or indirect (depreciation write-offs, rent rebates) and can be used for a variety of purposes.

LINKS:

The US union threat:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10691902

The extent of NZ subsidies to Hollywood films:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10691715
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December 4, 2010 8:55am
joana

Good on you Brian for producing a son interested in science..it is toasted bagels and b/eggs in our house…
I see in their never ending quest for resources , the Chinese are looking for coal mines etc in NZ…great timing..
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December 4, 2010 8:56am
joana

Thrash Cardiom ,
Sammy Wong has extensive business interests in CHCH…how many of the ”holidays” were in CHCH??
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December 4, 2010 9:02am
Jack5

Cardiom posted: “Mr Wong has racked up 358 trips around the country in 12 years.”

That’s going a Wong way to get business.
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December 4, 2010 9:15am
Komata

Joana

Agreed, but hey, the Chinese don’t give a rats anyway – its all about them. Iron ore from Oz, Dollars from the US, rare earths from Africa, Coal from NZ, Milk from NZ – it doen’t matter where it originates so long as it contributes to China’s ‘Greater Asia Co-properity Sphere’ (those with very long memories will know exactly what I am referring to). And rest assured, we’ve seen nothing yet – the ‘Sleeping Dragon’ is waking up, looking far beyond its borders, and NZ like it or not is already involved, either by direct purchases of land and infrastructure by Chinese companies or by stealth via other, smaller nominally-local’ companies. China knows exactly what it is doing, is determined to once again be a dominant world power (THE dominant one if at all possible) and is looking after itself and only itself, as it always has. On that basis, FWIW, our much-vaunted ‘FTA’ will never be for our advantage – we (NZ) are merely pawns and ‘useful idiots’ . To think otherwise is incredibly niave.

But then, perhaps we actually are . . .
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December 4, 2010 9:25am
joana

Agreed Komata…just read recently about the rare earth minerals and how they have the whole thing sewn up…Some time back , a high ranking Chinese politican said ”We do not have enough room in our country for all our people so we are going to take over Australia , NZ and Canada.” Can’t get much clearer than that.
I think many NZers are ignorant about how quickly the Chinese dominate ANYWHERE economically..At the time of the anti Chinese riots in Jakarta in 98 , the western media was concentrating on stories like that of all the Chinese women being raped , the cars and businesses burning etc..etc.. My Chinese father-in-law told me that at that time the Chinese were 4 per cent of the Indo pop. but controlled 80 per cent of the wealth….it is this great wealth aquisistion which causes so much resentment.
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December 4, 2010 9:53am
Thrash Cardiom

Sammy Wong has extensive business interests in CHCH…how many of the ”holidays” were in CHCH??

It would be good to know where and when he flew on our dollar.
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December 4, 2010 10:03am
Thrash Cardiom

Attorney: Assange Accused for Not Wearing Condom During Consensual Intercourse

A former attorney for WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange has revealed that the sex assault allegations against Assange in Sweden center around his allegedly not using a condom. James Catlin says Assange has been accused of not using a condom during consensual sex with the two accusers. Catlin says Sweden’s justice system is likely to become the
“the laughingstock of the world” if the case proceeds. An international arrest warrant was issued for Assange this week.

http://www.democracynow.org/2010/12/3/headlines
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December 4, 2010 10:06am
Inventory2

Brian Smaller said

How is your Sat shaping up?

Breakfast at a local cafe; delicious. At work now; hopefully home by soon after the start of Day Two of the Ashes test, although I might go home via the river and watch some of the Jury Cup regatta on the might Whanganui.

The Booze Bus was out and about last night, but the fridge at home is well stocked, so once I get home, there I will remain. A “nanna-nap” this arvo is a distinct possibility 🙂
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December 4, 2010 10:35am
jaba

I rowed in the Jury Cup as a novice for Aramoho in about 75 .. did alright to.
overcast here praying for some rain .. not tomorrow as our work Xmas picnic is on and 1,000’s attend
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December 4, 2010 11:04am
MT_Tinman

I notice the driver who cleaned up the cyclists near Morrinsville has finally been charged.

Why did it take so long?

Is it that hard to figure out the wording of a charge of failing to kill the rest of the group?
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December 4, 2010 11:11am
Puzzled in Ekatahuna

Jack5 –
Who can be any the wiser for reading the nzherald.co article which you linked to – “Our $500m ‘gift’ to Hollywood”?

They use terms like ‘tax breaks’, ‘rebates on expenditure’ and ‘extra subsidies’, which really tell you nothing.
Nor do your authoritative definitions of “subsidy” add anything, because are any of those what the Herald quotes?

It would be nice to see an article that told us straight up –
1] what has been ‘spent’ on subsidy/rebates in the form of forgone tax [either tax wavered, or collected then returned] and so not a cost to the taxpayer – just money we don’t have,
2] and actual grants/payments of taxpayer money paid to productions [like the $ 7.5 million amount understood to be allowed to each HOBBIT production so that every subsequent DVD to carries a tourism Extra.
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December 4, 2010 11:26am
jaba

the Greens will be having nightmares about the mining interest in NZ .. the Steel Mill bit will be interesting especially in light of the ETS which is already affecting the Glenbrooks Mills capital injection being put on hold because of it.
A big call for John Key and Smith on that one.
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December 4, 2010 11:33am
Manolo

Forget about Goff’s criticism, even John Armstrong, a fan, finds the investigation of Pansy Wong’s travel spending lacks teeth: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10691970
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December 4, 2010 11:43am
Inventory2

@ jaba – rain is urgently needed down this way as well – the draw-off from Wanganui’s water supply in November is reported to have been the highest in any month for a decade, including the drought of three summers ago. Whilst our September rainfall was a record, the November rainfall was the lowest on record. Four days into summer, things are looking grim unless we get some signifcant rain; it’s February conditions already, both above and underfoot.
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December 4, 2010 11:47am
Manolo

Lunacy from Cancun, there the AGW believers have gathered:
Christiana Figueres, executive secretary of the U.N. Framework Convention on Climate Change, invoked the ancient jaguar goddess Ixchel in her opening statement to delegates gathered in Cancun, Mexico, noting that Ixchel was not only goddess of the moon, but also the goddess of reason, creativity and weaving. May she inspire you — because today, you are gathered in Cancun to weave together the elements of a solid response to climate change, using both reason and creativity as your tools.”

Who ever doubted the warmists will use creativity to get our money?
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December 4, 2010 11:55am
wat dabney

Jack5,

Whilst the “analysis” by the NZ Herald is basically rubbish, I absolutely agree that governments should not be handing out tax breaks to crony industries. What’s required is a low flat tax that is quick and simple to apply. End of story.
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December 4, 2010 11:55am
Inventory2

A change of tack; big ups to the Halberg Awards people for giving punters the opportunity to participate in at least one award next year:

http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2010/12/favourite-sporting-moments.html
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December 4, 2010 12:08pm
Viking2

In Not the News today (content may offend), there is embarrassment for Prime Minister John Key in a discovery made in searching the hundreds of thousands of leaked documents hitting the internet from whistleblower site Wikileaks.
‘Bugger’, John Key earlier today.

He has described himself as ‘devastated’ that there is absolutely no mention of him anywhere.

He is reportedly taking a few days away from his office to reassess his impact on the world stage and is expected to make an announcement later today.

New Zealand has featured in the ‘dossier of embarrassment’, with several reported conversations from the White House including brief queries from George W Bush, such as ‘Where?’ and ‘That Clark fella’s a bit odd.’

The focus of the revelations is centred on conflict in Iraq, Afghanistan and the Pakistan borders, and here again New Zealand gets a mention, with Kiwis setting up an extreme water-sports business.

‘Hey bro. It’s water and a board, what’s not to like, eh? We throw people off bridges tied to elastic, lighten up.

http://www.sunlive.co.nz/news/9811-key-devastated-at-wikileaks-revelation.html
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December 4, 2010 12:09pm
Viking2

All cars to be silver say Labour

Posted on 30th Nov 2010 08:15 | By Cliff Edge

In Not the News today (content may offend), we’ve uncovered secret plans by Labour to erase the last vestiges of individualism on the roads by outlawing all cars that are not silver by 2015.

SunLive – first against the wall under Labour?

This startling new restriction on personal freedom is expected by party leaders to slip in unnoticed, given that 4 out of 5 cars are already a shade of the non-colour.

Plans obtained by your correspondent Cliff Edge have also revealed how far the socialist revolution will go should Labour retain power into a second term, including a deal with South Korean car giant Kia Motors to produce a compulsory “people’s car”. The car, planned to be called the Kia Konform, is set to be the VW Beetle of it’s age, and will be available in two versions. One will be the standard model for the general public, and one for local and national government officials, to be known as the Kia Perk.

A surprisingly competitive tender process was apparently undertaken by Labour to select their preferred provider, with Kia being narrow winners over the Nissan Graft, and India-made Tata Hope.

“This is all rumour and speculation,” said leader Phil Goff when confronted by Not the News. “Besides, no-one likes a show off,” he added, carelessly. “It’s for the environment actually, as the silver will reflect more light back into space and help cool the planet. It’s our replacement for the emissions trading nonsense, and just as likely to be successful,” he went on, in a rare moment of insight.

Rebellious in red? You have been warned!

http://www.sunlive.co.nz/news/9768-all-cars-to-be-silver-say-labour.html
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December 4, 2010 12:12pm
Johnboy

You trying to step into the Dimpost slot Viking?

Not bad.

I like silver cars cause they don’t show the dirt and I am a lazy vulva. 🙂
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December 4, 2010 12:27pm
Viking2

Nah, just noticed them on Sunlive and thought they were a good chuckle especially the John Key one. No where is the air brush. Oh that’s right Helen’s still got it in New York.
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December 4, 2010 1:10pm
MT_Tinman

Why is it silver car owners all immediately take advantage of the free full frontal lobotomy offered with the purchase of each vehicle?
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December 4, 2010 1:14pm
Johnboy

Too lazy to wash car = Too lazy to think.

All us dopey vulva’s is like that. 🙂
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December 4, 2010 1:16pm
Inventory2

Johnboy said

All us dopey vulva’s is like that.

Actually Johnboy, the plural of vulva is vulvae. But good lateral thinking in circumventing DPF’s dislike of the dreaded C-word 🙂
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December 4, 2010 1:31pm
Johnboy

I am always prepared to stand corrected by a proper Latin scholar wot can speak the lingo correctly IV2. 🙂

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbI-fDzUJXI
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December 4, 2010 1:41pm
Inventory2

Amo, amas, amat; amamus, amatis, amant – some of it stayed with me, as tempus fugit-ed!
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December 4, 2010 2:31pm
Johnboy

You really intelligent vulvae always crack me up IV2.
(Sorry, hope “crack” is OK David.—- Being that it could be construed as rude and all. )

Did you ever feel you have lived a previous life in Jerusalem IV2 ? Possibly as a Roman. 🙂
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December 4, 2010 2:47pm
adze

“Did you ever feel you have lived a previous life in Jerusalem IV2 ? Possibly as a Roman. :)”

Through the magic of television I have found IV2 in action in a former life (he sounds a bit like John Cleese for some reason):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIAdHEwiAy8
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December 4, 2010 2:51pm
Johnboy

We have done that one adze. 🙂

What can you find on Ghengis Khan?
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December 4, 2010 2:59pm
Inventory2

I wonder how long this comment will last at Red Alert:

Inventory2 says:
December 4, 2010 at 6:55 pm

Any thoughts on the CEO of the Unite union Darien, and the current “difficulties” with the IRD? Withholding PAYE payments which might include Child Support, Student Loan and Kiwisaver deductions hardly seems to be the hallmark of a good employer

http://blog.labour.org.nz/index.php/2010/12/04/happy-xmas-to-the-bosses/
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December 4, 2010 6:59pm
OctagonGrappler

This is great news for a change, and hopefully our government will follow suit.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1335054/Harmans-equality-law-gets-green-light-Employers-WILL-allowed-favour-women.html
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December 4, 2010 7:17pm
jaba

let us know about your Redalert comment I2 .. as mentioned, I am starting to feel ill reading the shit they post there
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December 4, 2010 7:24pm
Hurf Durf

I have two questions.

1) Why were Christine O’Donnell’s eccentricities and flaws worth international media attention, criticism and hysteria this year but not in 2008 and in 2006 when she also ran for Senator under the same party with the same chance of winning i.e. remote?

2) Why haven’t we neutralised Keith Locke yet?
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December 4, 2010 8:18pm
Inventory2

@ Jaba – it’s still there, and what’s more, Darien Fenton responded to it saying that Unite should pay up.
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December 4, 2010 8:27pm
Fletch

Oh FFS…. The greenies have developed a new file format called WWF (it’s cool too, because it’s like World Wildlife Fund), which is essentially a PDF that can’t be printed, thereby saving paper, and trees…

*sigh*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzY4SGgEB7g&feature=player_embedded
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December 4, 2010 10:51pm
reid

“sigh”

Well spotted Fletch. My usual epithet in these circumstances seems again appropriate:

FFS, you fucking fuckity fuck fuckhead moron fucks.

It’s a useful epithet to have in your inventory.
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December 4, 2010 11:24pm
Zhumao

Some time back , a high ranking Chinese politican said ”We do not have enough room in our country for all our people so we are going to take over Australia , NZ and Canada.”

Source Joana? Or something out of your imagination?

If you cannot provide a reliable source you are being dishonest.

The United Kingdom, Germany, France, Italy, and even Tonga, are all more densely populated than China.
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December 5, 2010 2:18am
Zhumao

“Agreed, but hey, the Chinese don’t give a rats anyway – its all about them.”

You mean the Americans and the West in general does.

The Chinese are ethically far better than the West.

In fact Chinese investment around the world, and its overall increasing clout in other areas is seen by many around the world as a positive good.

For example the Chinese in Africa are helping develop the place, building infrastructure, and actually helping many countries on that continent to grow.

“China’s presence has coincided with the continent’s strongest period of economic growth. A McKinsey report in June pointed to average real GDP growth 4.9 per cent from 2000 through to 2008.”
http://tinyurl.com/25jmf8a

For the open-minded, the best study of the Chinese role in Africa, backed up with a plethora of facts and figures is “The Dragon’s Gift: The Real Story of China in Africa”, by Deborah Brautigam.
http://tinyurl.com/y87lm7n

The African people like dealing with the Chinese much more than the West. The Chinese pay for resources. The Europeans just came in and stole the resources, drove the locals off prime land and gave it to European settlers – hence the problems in Zimbabwe today.

Not only are the Chinese welcomed for their fair dealings, but China’s own model of development and political system is attracting more and more interest around the developing world as a way forward.

The Rwandan President on China:

“The Chinese bring what Africa needs: investment and money for governments and companies.China is investing in infrastructure and building roads.European and American involvement has not brought Africa forward.Western firms have to a large extent polluted Africa and they are still doing it”

The South African President on China:

“China is there ….to create a mutually beneficial kind of relationship, which is different from former Western colonialists simply taking things by force.”

The South African president also said:

“The developing world was told that if it did not Westernize and change its political systems to mirror those of the West, they could forget about achieving economic growth and development. Now we are asking what we could learn from other political systems and cultures. Is the political discipline in China a recipe for economic success, for example?”

The Botswanan President on China:

“the Chinese treat us as equals. The West treats us as former subjects.I prefer the attitude of the Chinese to that of the West.”

Ugandan President on China:

“The Western ruling groups are conceited, full of themselves, ignorant of our conditions, and they make other people’s business their business. Whereas the Chinese just deal with you, you represent your country, they represent their own interests, and you do business.”

In short Chinese pay for resources and what little land they acquire. Unlike Europeans who just send in the gunboats, march their troops in, and exterminate the local people.
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December 5, 2010 2:30am
Komata

Zhumao

‘In short Chinese pay for resources and what little land they acquire. Unlike Europeans who just send in the gunboats, march their troops in, and exterminate the local people’.

I would of course expect no other reply from you, but for the benefit of those who may not know how things are done in Africa, herewith the Chinese-twist on colonsation within that continent:-

Several years ago, the Chinese Politbureau made a very careful and detailed study of Western colonisation-practices in Africa and concluded that there were other more ‘interesting’ ways by which ‘monkeys’ could be caught.

They found that instead of destroying the local infrastructure, as the Europeans had been inclined to do when ‘subduing’ Africa, they (China) merely had to advance loans and ‘favours’ to the resident local despot (aka ‘Dictator/Strongman) and then very carefully enmesh him in their web. Under this highly original and extremely-successful scenario , the Dictator of course takes the money and favours and voila’ he’s theirs to ‘use’ as they require. It works every time and causes the Chinese government absolutely no strife at all, since the resident ‘leader’ becomes their puppet and keeps the locals ‘under control’. If the dictator ‘objects’ or wants out of the arrangement, there are always others of a similar ilk available to replace him.

As a result of this practice of ”influence’, Chinese ‘experts’ acquire certain key roles and of course Chinese labourers are imported to do the work. These latter individuals are very carefully separated from the locals and settled in townships which are slowly expanded as additional Chinese arrive, eventually joining-up and becoming larger urban areas – areas which are virulently Chinese and which anchor the new arrivals (one must never call them ‘colonists’ or ‘settlers’ – even though they are on a one-way ticket with no chance of returning home) to Africa permanently!! The resident ‘natives’ of course cannot object as the national security forces have ways of keeping things quiet. . .

The result of all this is that China is expanding quietly in Africa, one position of influence and one imported labourer at a time. It is, if you will ‘Creeping Colonisation’ and is extremely effective, and proves that one does not need force to achieve an objective and catch monkeys – just patience, money, influence, one labourer at a time, patience, then more patience.

It is of course, very, very Chinese. . .

(BTW, if anyone is interested, – it’s happening in New Zealand too, the monkeys are merely of a diffeent colour).
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December 5, 2010 8:45am
Zhumao

Komata —-give some examples to support your claims regarding Africa, with some sources. Some quantitative data? Or is it stuff just downloaded from your febrile imagination?

“(BTW, if anyone is interested, – it’s happening in New Zealand too, the monkeys are merely of a diffeent colour”

There is a way to help stop this Komata. I have made this suggestion before on Kiwiblog. I don’t think anyone has taken me up on my suggestion, not even Redbaiter. Perhaps a ‘patriot’ like yourself, Komata, will put your money where your mouth is. Here is the suggestion:

Why not pay for some full page newspaper advertising, in say Hong Kong’s major papers like Apple Daily, or Dong Fang ribao, telling potential Chinese investors that they will get a bad reception in NZ and that most NZrs oppose the sale of land to foreigners, the Chinese in particular. Foreign investors are very easily scared away, and truthfully, New Zealand is not really all that important to China. Most Chinese think it is part of Australia.

Look at the fallout in India from the Paul Henry mockery of Ms Dikshit. Asians, because of their history of colonial oppression, are very sensitive to anything that could be construed as anti-Asian xenophobia or racism on the part of Anglo Saxon westerners.

It would not be difficult at all to give the impression in Asia of New Zealand being an unfriendly environment for foreign investment. Also perhaps Komata could organise protests against China owned companies in New Zealand. Inform the Asian media in advance, and they will swoop down on the story and it will be reported in Hong Kong, Taiwan, and China. Or even a demonstration outside The Warehouse. You only need 50 to 100 protesters, perhaps less, to make it newsworthy.

This could have a very real negative impact on economic relations between New Zealand and China – something that people like Komata and Joana obviously want.

Why not go for it? After all Komata, you obviously consider China an existential threat to NZ. Surely as a patriotic New Zealander you should consider taking up my suggestion?
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December 5, 2010 11:56am

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THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION
No Punches Pulled (Bob Jones)
This will not end well
Offsetting Behaviour
Top 14 Predictions for Round 10
Stats Chat
Pretty (il)legal
Croaking Cassandra
Tory Whanau may have to sell Wellington mayoralty to make ends meet
The Civilian
The Accidental Engagement
Imperator Fish
Legal Beagle: Election '23: The Special Votes
Public Address
Making this movie might have been a mistake
Liam Hehir
Why I am retiring from political blogging
Kiwi FireWalker
Angie Warren-Clark: Meet the Newbies
Dan Moskovitz

editor@kiwiblog.co.nz

PO Box 12270, Thorndon, Wellington 6144

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