General Debate 29 December 2010

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joana

The price of the bail out for Greece…two mega mosques as Europe plots its own distruction.
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December 29, 2010 8:04am
Pete George

Sun shine
clear blue
post rain
ya hoo!
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December 29, 2010 8:05am
Rodders

A sad farewell to a true skeptic
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/4498558/Professor-web-entrepreneur-Denis-Dutton-dies
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December 29, 2010 8:09am
MyNameIsJack

Rodders, beat me to it. I read that last night and thought, well, for a seppo, he was a good one.
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December 29, 2010 8:13am
wreck1080

The redesigned NZ herald website is awful.

The expanding header covers the top news stories when the mouse pointer rolls over them. So, you need to move your mouse in a circle around those headers to avoid expanding them.

how did this get past user testing?
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December 29, 2010 8:14am
hj

“An historian says the peer-reviewed and published findings could call into question the notion of Maori as indigenous people.

The findings showed that islands such as Easter and Marquesas, as well as Hawaii, were settled hundreds of years later than thought, about the same time as New Zealand, researchers said. ”
.
“Auckland University of Technology history professor Paul Moon said the findings could have implications for the Waitangi Tribunal because claims, using oral history, had Maori colonisation out by hundreds of years.

“If Maori reached New Zealand waters just 300 years before the first Europeans, some people might also start to reconsider the idea of Maori being indigenous. It could be interpreted as a different type of `indigenous’ from the sort that applies to peoples who inhabited countries exclusively for thousands of years.” ”
http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/4498647/Pacific-colonisation-one-big-pulse

The Japanese have been in Japan for 5000 years but aren’t considered indigenous; the Ainu people are. So o.k “uze Maoris was here before us….”
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December 29, 2010 8:20am
MyNameIsJack

User testing?

Surely you jest.
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December 29, 2010 8:20am
Manolo

Darwinism at work: http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/4498728/Boy-13-woken-up-to-drive-death-car
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December 29, 2010 8:20am
MyNameIsJack

One more ignorant prat who doesn’t understand evolution. Fuck off, Manolo, get an education!

[DPF: 10 demerits]
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December 29, 2010 8:22am
Manolo

Surely, there is no underclass in NZ and the natives are peaceful, so what about these savages?
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/4498979/Random-attack-in-Kaikoura
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December 29, 2010 8:24am
Inventory2

The Australian cricketers have effectively conceded defeat at the MCG. It wouldn’t have happened in Ian Chappell’s day, and they seem to have forgotten Ian Botham’s heroics at Leeds in 1981. Are Ponting’s men getting soft?

http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2010/12/conceding-defeat.html
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December 29, 2010 8:28am
Pete George

I wondered about that I2, the Aussie situation is dire but to hear them talking of inevitable defeat already is out of character – they should at least fight for a bit of pride. But they looked as if they had lost well before the end of play yesterday.

Ponting has been on the slide for some time, and Clarke is struggling, now even Hussey has given up. Most remarkable though is Mitchell Johnson – where has he been in this test?
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December 29, 2010 8:41am
Put it away

Kaikoura’s one of those towns where you only end up there if you failed everywhere else, and you want to go somewhere where nobody gives a shit any more. Labour stronghold I assume.
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December 29, 2010 9:38am
Inventory2

My blog-post compares Ponting and Clarke’s series stats with their English opposites Pete; the results are galling if you are an Australian.

I reckoned that Ponting should have stood down as captain after the second Ashes series defeat in England last year, and perhaps even retired. His reflexes no longer seem to be what they were, and he is starting to look like the classic case of a player who has played one season too long. It’s a sad end to what has been largely a stellar career.
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December 29, 2010 9:45am
Thrash Cardiom

Labour stronghold I assume.

You assume wrongly: http://www.national.org.nz/MP.aspx?Id=51
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December 29, 2010 9:46am
Tauhei Notts

A BAD DREAM
The thought of Aussie cricket, which has dominated world cricket for so many decades got me thinking.
What would the thoughts be in a small country if their rugby union team, which has dominated world rugby for years, suddenly fell from the heights as this Australian cricket team has.
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December 29, 2010 9:51am
Pete George

I2, I have seen reports that Ponting will “rest his pinky” and may not play in Sydney. Yep, sad to see a great go down before they bow out.

Tauhei – it has happened before, it will happen again, some time. I don’t think there is a risk of it happening in 2011, but whether they win the Cup or not after that they will be in danger.
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December 29, 2010 9:59am
Brian Smaller

MNIJ – I guess you hate the Annual Darwin Awards as well.
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December 29, 2010 10:26am
Pete George

Reports on this study have been out for a day or two.

Study questions date of Maori arrival in NZ

The results indicate New Zealand was first colonised by humans between 1210 and 1385 AD.

AUT University History Professor, Paul Moon said the study might have “far-reaching implications for Maori oral history”.

Maori oral histories which recall lists of ancestors have been used to date the first arrival in New Zealand as early as 800 AD, Dr Moon said.

“If these Maori whakapapa are out by over five hundred years, then this must raise questions about their reliability.

“If Maori reached New Zealand waters just 300 years before the first Europeans, some people might also start to reconsider the idea of Maori being indigenous. It could be interpreted as a different type of ‘indigenous’ from the sort that applies to peoples who inhabited countries exclusively for thousands of years. This would be an unfortunate conclusion to draw, but is something that might have to be faced.”

I don’t see how it would change any ToW claims, how many centuries prior the Maori arrived is surely irrelevant.
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December 29, 2010 10:35am
Scorpio

Oral history has been accepted as ‘fact’ by the Waitangi tribunal. If it’s sooooooooooooooooo wrong on the big stuff – ie when Maori first came to NZ – then it’s also too unreliable to use as evidence for TOW claims.
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December 29, 2010 10:42am
hj

I don’t see how it would change any ToW claims, how many centuries prior the Maori arrived is surely irrelevant.

….
It’s relevant from the point of view that Maori paint a deep and lasting spiritual association with the land and having a kaitiaki role etc. It’s also relevant as the Waitangi tribunal accept oral history as fact and it casts aspersions on oral history generally.
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December 29, 2010 10:59am
hj

9 Signs That The Price Of Oil Is About To Soar Beyond $100 A Barrel

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/oil-prices-rising-in-2011-2010-12##ixzz19Rgu59st
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December 29, 2010 11:00am
Dazzaman

Hey Manolo, I don’t think that kid should be the one going for a skate. Some/A pretty irresponsible adult/s deserve some jail time. I’d hate to see that kids life ruined for effectively being bullied into driving for some idiotic older relatives! But, it is Wairoa so….maybe it’s the start they all get over there…
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December 29, 2010 11:08am
Pete George

Recent oral history is what is important for the ToW, that will obviously be much more reliable.

Early history is just of historic interest – no one would reasonably expect oral records going back several hundred years to be accurate.
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December 29, 2010 11:14am
Dazzaman

I2, there’s not a cricketer in either side (well Ponting but he’s shit at the mo’) of the calibre of Botham at his best! Someone might step up…but I doubt it & I hope not!
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December 29, 2010 11:15am
Manolo

A must read. Replace England with New Zealand and weep: http://www.city-journal.org/html/9_2_oh_to_be.html
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December 29, 2010 11:17am
nickb

IMO Ponting and Clarke need to go. Clarke has not ever got runs while I have watched, when he is under pressure. Apparently his average coming in when the score is 250 is 55+, but coming in when the score is under 100 it drops to 25 or something.

Drop them both, bring in Khawaja and Ferguson.
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December 29, 2010 11:25am
Fletch

When privacy laws go horribly wrong –

A guy in America faces five years in jail for ~~reading~~ ‘hacking’ his wife’s email. He suspected she was having an affair, so read her email on the computer they shared. It turns out she was having an affair, but now laws concerning hacking and identity theft are being brought to bear on him.

A Rochester Hills man faces up to 5 years in prison — for reading his wife’s e-mail.

Oakland County prosecutors, relying on a Michigan statute typically used to prosecute crimes such as identity theft or stealing trade secrets, have charged Leon Walker, 33, with a felony after he logged onto a laptop in the home he shared with his wife, Clara Walker.

Using her password, he accessed her Gmail account and learned she was having an affair. He now is facing a Feb. 7 trial. She filed for divorce, which was finalized earlier this month.

Legal experts say it’s the first time the statute has been used in a domestic case, and it might be hard to prove

“It’s going to be interesting because there are no clear legal answers here,” said Frederick Lane, a Vermont attorney and nationally recognized expert who has published five books on electronic privacy. The fact that the two still were living together, and that Leon Walker had routine access to the computer, may help him, Lane said.

“I would guess there is enough gray area to suggest that she could not have an absolute expectation of privacy,” he said.

About 45% of divorce cases involve some snooping — and gathering — of e-mail, Facebook and other online material, Lane said. But he added that those are generally used by the warring parties for civil reasons — not for criminal prosecution.

“It is an indication of how deeply electronic communication is woven into our lives,” Lane said.

Leon Walker was Clara Walker’s third husband. Her e-mail showed she was having an affair with her second husband, a man who once had been arrested for beating her in front of her small son. Leon Walker, worried that the child might be exposed to domestic violence again, handed the e-mails over to the child’s father, Clara Walker’s first husband. He promptly filed an emergency motion to obtain custody.

Leon Walker, a computer technician with Oakland County, was arrested in February 2009, after Clara Walker learned he had provided the e-mails to her first husband.

“I was doing what I had to do,” Leon Walker told the Free Press in a recent interview. He has been out on bond since shortly after his arrest. “We’re talking about putting a child in danger.”

Oakland County Prosecutor Jessica Cooper defended her decision to charge Leon Walker.

“The guy is a hacker,” Cooper said in a voice mail response to the Free Press last week. “It was password protected, he had wonderful skills, and was highly trained. Then he downloaded them and used them in a very contentious way.”

Walker’s defense attorney, Leon Weiss, said Cooper is “dead wrong” on the law.

“I’ve been a defense attorney for 34 years and I’ve never seen anything like this,” he said. “This is a hacking statute, the kind of statute they use if you try to break into a government system or private business for some nefarious purpose. It’s to protect against identity fraud, to keep somebody from taking somebody’s intellectual property or trade secrets.

“I have to ask: ‘Don’t the prosecutors have more important things to do with their time?’ ”

Clara Walker, through her attorney, Michael McCulloch, declined an interview with the Free Press.

In the preliminary exam, Clara Walker testified that although Leon Walker had purchased the laptop for her, it was hers alone and she kept the password a secret.

Leon Walker told the Free Press he routinely used the computer and that she kept all of her passwords in a small book next to the computer.

“It was a family computer,” he said. “I did work on it all the time.”

A jury ultimately will decide.

Several area defense attorneys were astonished by the filing of the criminal charges.

“What’s the difference between that and parents who get on their kids’ Facebook accounts?” attorney Deborah McKelvy said. “You’re going to have to start prosecuting a whole bunch of parents.”

Link
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December 29, 2010 11:34am
backster

“Sergeant Matt King said the boy came forward to police on Monday night”

Probably been schooled up to take the rap and stay staunch, in the belief that due to his age he won’t be charged.
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December 29, 2010 11:44am
tom hunter

9 Signs That The Price Of Oil Is About To Soar Beyond $100 A Barrel

And I don’t disagree with those signs, bar the last one, which is the usual “Peak Oil” scream. The following article has something to say about that and the overall, longer-term perspective. You’ll have to register with the bloody NYT but perhaps you can get the article from other sources: Economic Optimism? Yes, I’ll Take That Bet.

The two relevant quotes:

I called Mr. Simmons to discuss a bet. To his credit — and unlike some other Malthusians — he was eager to back his predictions with cash. He expected the price of oil, then about $65 a barrel, to more than triple in the next five years, even after adjusting for inflation. He offered to bet $5,000 that the average price of oil over the course of 2010 would be at least $200 a barrel in 2005 dollars.

I took him up on it, not because I knew much about Saudi oil production or the other “peak oil” arguments that global production was headed downward. I was just following a rule learned from a mentor and a friend, the economist Julian L. Simon.

As the leader of the Cornucopians, the optimists who believed there would always be abundant supplies of energy and other resources, Julian figured that betting was the best way to make his argument. Optimism, he found, didn’t make for cover stories and front-page headlines.

and…

It’s true that the real price of oil is slightly higher now than it was in 2005, and it’s always possible that oil prices will spike again in the future. But the overall energy situation today looks a lot like a Cornucopian feast, as my colleagues Matt Wald and Cliff Krauss have recently reported. Giant new oil fields have been discovered off the coasts of Africa and Brazil. The new oil sands projects in Canada now supply more oil to the United States than Saudi Arabia does. Oil production in the United States increased last year, and the Department of Energy projects further increases over the next two decades.
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December 29, 2010 11:50am
Johnboy

“It’s relevant from the point of view that Maori paint a deep and lasting spiritual association with the land and having a kaitiaki role etc. It’s also relevant as the Waitangi tribunal accept oral history as fact and it casts aspersions on oral history generally.”

True.

The last carload of Murri that tossed their Burger King packaging out the car window started to get me worried about their oral history and when I suggested they pick it up the modern words they used to me made me realise they were very recent Murri indeed. 🙂
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December 29, 2010 12:02pm
Fletch

@Johnboy… LOL.

But seriously, isn’t it funny how it’s more-often-than-not the Maori who throw their rubbish out the car window, or the dirty nappies into the car parking lot thus polluting “their” country, which they otherwise seem so concerned about and spiritually one with. If parts of the F&S do get taken and made Maori-only, I’d hate to see the resulting trash along it.
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December 29, 2010 12:17pm
Johnboy

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/4499873/NZ-soldiers-in-botched-Kabul-raid-report

Bollocks they were obviously an Irishman and a Pom.

If they were from here they would be called Willie and Wiremu. 🙂
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December 29, 2010 12:18pm
Johnboy

True Fletch.

As a long time observer of peoples parking habits I have also noticed that that 9 out of 10 people, who don’t display the disabled notice, who park in the disabled slots outside supermarkets seem to be brown. 🙂

Perhaps being brown means you are disabled. 🙂

All the stats on being a useless member of society would tend to bear that assumption out. 🙂
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December 29, 2010 12:25pm
niggly

Re: Oil, could the future be looking better?

Soaring oil prices make NZ attractive risk

With oil heading for US$100 a barrel, a London analyst for Bank of America Merrill Lynch says petroleum explorers are more likely to be attracted to New Zealand waters.

“More frontier basins are sought after once the price goes higher. People are more willing to throw down darts when the incentive is there,” said research analyst James Schofield.

New Zealand’s supportive political environment meant the country was in a “sweet spot” for exploration.

“There’s no political risk whatsoever, they see it as a very benign environment. Most of these other places have security risks, New Zealand’s untested in terms of large oil finds so geologically it’s got a lot of risk but the political environment helps you overcome that.”

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10696791
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December 29, 2010 12:29pm
Johnboy

“There’s no political risk whatsoever, they see it as a very benign environment. Most of these other places have security risks, New Zealand’s untested in terms of large oil finds so geologically it’s got a lot of risk but the political environment helps you overcome that.”

So they have never met Tama and Hone then. 🙂
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December 29, 2010 12:35pm
slijmbal

MNIJ

“One more ignorant prat who doesn’t understand evolution. F*** off, Manolo, get an education!

[DPF: 10 demerits]”

and a good case for it being in part evolutionary as well (as bad taste as Manolo’s comment was) – double fault
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December 29, 2010 12:36pm
starboard

But seriously, isn’t it funny how it’s more-often-than-not the Maori who throw their rubbish out the car window, or the dirty nappies into the car parking lot.

…they really are filthy natives. I came across one taking a dump in the Waimak river some years ago…after a brief exchange of verbal nasties I walked over and and chucked him in telling him to join the turd he just dumped . I still laugh about it to this day. One to the whitey.
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December 29, 2010 12:37pm
Johnboy

“But seriously, isn’t it funny ”

No starboard.

Its very bloody serious.

Like your idea of tossing them in the water though.
(Just to see if they are such good paddlers you understand 🙂 )
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December 29, 2010 12:42pm
slijmbal

@Johnboy & Fletch

it is one of my pet irritants people using disabled parking at the supermarket and I regularly berate abusers thereof. Photographing the plate with my phone seems to do the trick.

It is my experience that the majority are one of:

1) expensive SUV or german car drivers
2) young blokes in sporty looking but not expensive cars
3) knackkered old white van drivers

they are invariably white of european descent, rarely brown.

Perhaps it depends where you live is the most generous intepretation I can provide of this discepancy in observations.
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December 29, 2010 1:18pm
Johnboy

You must live in Paritai Drive slijmbal. 🙂

I live in Mallardville and they are almost all brown people. 🙂

ps: The knackered old white van drivers you see must be tradesmen. 🙂
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December 29, 2010 1:24pm
joana

All the anti Maori bigots out this morning..haven’t you got lawns to mow , kids to feed??
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December 29, 2010 1:26pm
Johnboy

The Kids feed me now joana.

I have a gardener.

Are all brown people Murri?

I never like to stereotype others like you do. 🙂
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December 29, 2010 1:32pm
slijmbal

@Johnboy

Mallardville? Hutt Valley?

Supermarket in question is 1 of 2 closest to Birkdale, Beachhaven on the shore (arguably poorest part of the shore) and has plenty of brown faces in its clientelle.

Yes – white van drivers are mostly tradesmen from the van logos. They’re not the most belligerent though. I get more verbal grief from the more expensive car drivers on the whole. Surprising how many people are very sheepish when approached, even the tough looking ones and agree it’s not a good look. Seems to work though. Cannot remember the last time I saw disabled car park occupied by someone without a valid display card.
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December 29, 2010 1:49pm
starboard

All the anti Maori bigots out this morning..

..what, and harawira , mutu , mair , turia , sharples , et al arent racist bigots?
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December 29, 2010 1:56pm
Manolo

joana, go back to the kitchen, will you? 🙂
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December 29, 2010 4:26pm
Johnboy

And cook Manolo and me some eggs! 🙂 🙂
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December 29, 2010 4:53pm
starboard

…and if ya burn ’em wimmin ya get da bash ya hear…
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December 29, 2010 5:51pm
Johnboy

Gillards Oz.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=10696969

What a shithole. Still.

“One place smokers should not consider emigrating to is New Zealand. Anti-smoking groups are demanding the country be smoke-free by 2020.”

The Chinks might save us before then with their Dongfeng. One flash and your ASH……… etc.etc.
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December 29, 2010 6:01pm
Manolo

Worth a good laugh. How do they dare to offend the intolerant and vile “religion of peace”?
http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/tv-and-radio/top-gear-stars-cause-row-after-burqastyle-stunt-20101229-199zg.html
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December 29, 2010 6:27pm
Johnboy

Christ I hope the Stig never upset Darth Vader by wearing white and offending the dark side of the force or we are all fucked.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:The_Stig_British_International_Motor_Show_.jpg
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December 29, 2010 6:45pm
grumpyoldhori

Oh, would you like a crack at chucking me in the water Johnboy, or might that be just a touch dangerous for a wimp like yourself ?
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December 29, 2010 8:24pm
starboard

Oh, would you like a crack at chucking me in the water Johnboy, or might that be just a touch dangerous for a wimp like yourself .

..probably need a front end loader to move ya…too much kina and beer eh bro…
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December 29, 2010 8:41pm
Johnboy

It’s not the Kina. It’s the Murri roasts and KFC washed down with the beers that have turned Grumpy into a fatarse starboard.

Just another example of how the honkies have oppressed the culture. 🙂
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December 29, 2010 8:47pm
starboard

..good reading over at CR re the Murri’s not being in NZ for as long as we thought..think we should put the treaty gravy train on hold till we get to the bottom of it.
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December 29, 2010 8:58pm
Johnboy

I always knew Grumpy was really a bloody Turk starboard….. 🙂
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December 29, 2010 9:04pm
Pete George

Starboard, what happened 700 or 1000 years ago has nothing to do with property rights in the 1800s.
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December 29, 2010 9:10pm
Guy Fawkes

Are Gordon Brown and Helen Clark related?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/blog/2010/dec/23/gordon-brown-anthony-seldon-book
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December 29, 2010 9:10pm
Johnboy

What happened a mere few years ago has nothing to do with property rights in the near future Petty.

Ask Chris Finlayson if you don’t believe me. 🙂
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December 29, 2010 9:14pm
Hurf Durf

A DenseOldFuckwit post that isn’t about tactical nukes or Russia. Quelle surprise/AWWWWW SHIT BRO/etc.
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December 29, 2010 9:32pm
hj

“With that said, TangataWhenua.com recognises that in particular Ngai Tuhoe cosmology which suggests that there was no “arrival” and that they have always been from this whenua, this land. Regardless of what this study suggests, we acknowledge and respect their oral traditions.

The great non-Maori philospher, W.V.O. Quine (1908-2000) advocates what is more famously known as ‘naturalized epistemology’, which consists of his attempt to provide an improved scientific explanation of how we have developed elaborate scientific theories on the basis of meager sensory input. Quine put it this way:”

http://news.tangatawhenua.com/archives/8852
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December 29, 2010 10:22pm

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