General Debate 1 December 2010

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Pete George

Whatever your views are on climate change this is an interesting read.

10 Reasons Why the Cancun Talks Will Fail

Summary:

1. Global warming pollutants are invisible. So it’s hard to get people to care about them.

2. The costs of curbing climate change are immediate and the benefits are in the future. But Americans don’t like to sacrifice today for a better tomorrow. We’re lousy at saving.

3. Environmentalists have been disingenuous about the climate issue. It’s not a free lunch, and we should be honest about that.

4. Republicans who matter don’t believe climate science. The GOP is stampeding toward an absolutist rejection of climate science that appears unmatched among major political parties around the globe, even conservative ones.

5. China’s no more interested in a global treaty than we are. Some people argue that China deliberately sabotaged the Copenhagen talks.

6. Scant progress was made at COPs 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14 and 15. If the goal of the U.N. process is to reduce the threat of global warming, it’s not working.

7. Even the very modest achievements of Copenhagen have been unrealized. The most concrete commitment to come out of Copenhagen was for $30 billion in so-called “fast start climate finance” to development countries. The fund does not yet exist, and it’s not clear where the money is coming from, or who will decide how it’s spent.

8. The U.N. is the wrong venue. The U.N. process works by consensus, so any one of the 194 countries represented in Cancun country can bring talks to a halt.

9. The “climate justice” issue is intractable. While the impacts of climate change will fall most heavily on the poor — particularly but not exclusively those in the developing world — the problem of an overheating planet was mostly created by the rich.

10. Climate change is the biggest “collective action” problem in human history. Protecting the climate requires an entirely unprecedented level of global cooperation, without which action at the individual, community, regional or national level is all but pointless.

A flawed process for a disputed cause of unprecedented scope involving reluctant participants unwilling to act?
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December 1, 2010 9:01am
Yvette

Co-incidently –
Featured on television ONE this morning –
a photo of a polar bear cub riding on its mother’s back because global warming has caused ice-melt with this practice combating the cold water in which the cub would otherwise have to walk. Shock, horror!

The photo is from pdf –
“Polar bear cubs may reduce chilling from icy water
by sitting on mother’s back
Jon Aars Æ Angela Plumb
Received: 18 June 2009 / Revised: 20 August 2009 / Accepted: 1 September 2009 / Published online: 18 September 2009
Ó Springer-Verlag 2009

That polar bear cubs can ride on their mother’s back
either on land or in water is also mentioned by Brown
(1993), but without further details. He points out that
several bear species, including brown bears Ursus arctos,
the closest relative of the polar bear, can be seen carrying
cubs on the back. It is unclear how common the behaviour
is among polar bears, but scant observations could be due
to the remoteness of the Arctic areas. ”
– http://www.springerlink.com/content/8051204vu73l320w/fulltext.pdf

Nowhere in the article, that I can see, does it mention global warming . . .
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December 1, 2010 9:05am
Yvette

And of course TVNZ’z item is on the day they report –
a meeting in Mexico [is it?] to try to establish CO2 emission levels
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December 1, 2010 9:08am
david

Yep Yvette, thousands of warmists and alarmists are descending on Cancun in Mexico which just happens to be an idyllic tropical resort with lots of activities and girls in bikinis lying around crystal clean swimming pools supping cocktails.

Tough life this climate change business.
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December 1, 2010 9:16am
Fletch

Excerpt from David Limbaugh’s book ‘Crimes Against Liberty’ re: America’s Cap and Trade bill –

Global warming alarmists in the administration and Congress tried to foist on the nation another boondoggle called the American Clean Energy and Security Act of 2009, a.k.a. the “Waxman-Markey bill,” the “cap and trade bill,” or “cap and tax.” This bill, with its Draconian provisions, was based on the increasingly discredited view that man-made global warming will produce catastrophic, even apocalyptic consequences. But accepting the premise for purposes of argument, the salient questions are whether the bill would effect significant improvements and, even assuming it would, whether it would be worth the enormous costs it would generate. The inescapable fact is that the bill would involve colossal de facto tax increases (as documented in chapter three) and other prohibitive expenses while producing negligible results, at best.

Climate scientist Chip Knappenberger of New Hope Environmental Services has calculated that Waxman-Markey would reduce the earth’s temperature by just 0.1 to 0.2 degree Celsius by 2100. Ben Lieberman, Senior Policy Analyst for Energy and the Environment at the Heritage Foundation confirms he has seen no “decent refutation of the assertion that the temperature impact (of the bill) would be inconsequential.”

But the negative impact of the bill would not be inconsequential—it would be devastating. It would cause estimated net “job losses averaging 1,145,000 at any given time from 2012-2030.” Some of the jobs would be lost completely and others outsourced to China and India, two nations that have made it quite clear they will not sabotage their own economic growth as we’re proposing to do to ourselves with this bill. Projecting the bill would cause a loss in GDP of $9.4 trillion by 2035, Lieberman predicted it would increase each family of four’s share of the national debt by 26 percent, or $115,000, and this is irrespective of the other bankrupting programs of bailouts, stimulus, and ObamaCare. Even the liberal Brookings Institution projects the bill would reduce GDP by 1.8 percent by 2035 and 2.5 percent by 2050.

[…]

And all this for what? As Lieberman contends, “Virtually everything one hears about global warming that sounds terrifying is not true, and what is true is not particularly terrifying. The risks of global warming are outweighed by the risks of ill-advised global warming policy like Waxman-Markey. . . . The bill would have a trivial impact on future concentrations of greenhouse gases (and) . . . it only binds the U.S., and trends in the rest of the world clearly show that emissions are rising.” It is “free markets,” argues Lieberman, “that provide us with the best way forward.”
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December 1, 2010 9:29am
Rick Rowling

@Pete George

Lalalalalalalalalalalalalalalala I’m not listening.

I want to not believe.

Even though I have no qualification in climate science and get all my information from interested parties on the internet I’m still going to argue that everyone who disagrees with me (PHD or not) must be wrong.
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December 1, 2010 9:30am
Megatron

Does anyone else share my frustration over the new motorway onramps around Manukau City?
The onramp onto the Southern Motorway is a joke…whoever designed it needs to be accountable.
Who is taking responsibilty for this total cock up?
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December 1, 2010 9:31am
kowtow

That polar bear story was on Al Jazeera news this AM too.
It struck me during an interview with a climate freak/so called polar bear expert from the WWF (or some such NGO)that that story has been saved up for release to coincide with the Cancun outrage. So media outlets are again playing to the propaganda agenda of the climatenazis.

Note the rubbish that PG posts above. It’s anti American ,anti wealth and anti west.

It wont be the “poor” who suffer from this nonsense .The poor of the 3rd world kleptocracies have always and will always be poor because of their corrupt govts ,over population etc.
It is the ordinary tax payer and working man of the developed west who will pay (and is paying )for this shite.And his money will line the pockets of the corrupt lying bureacrats of the UN and 3rd world dictators.
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December 1, 2010 9:36am
Pete George

As we get creamed by the money men. Communism failed. Economies keep failing. Some people stay rich.
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December 1, 2010 9:41am
Fletch

@megatron, I had to take the turn off yesterday – you really have to concentrate to know what’s going on.
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December 1, 2010 9:44am
Murray

11. Because flying to a tropical resort to tell other people that flying is evil is yet another epic fail of irony.
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December 1, 2010 9:53am
Manolo

The next wave (pun intended) of electoral promises, read lies, is starting to hit us. Of couse, he was smiling when he spoke.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/politics/4407935/Keys-election-agenda
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December 1, 2010 10:07am
Manolo

“with lots of activities and girls in bikinis..”

Chauvel wouldn’t like that, would he?
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December 1, 2010 10:08am
Murray

There’ll be boys in bikinis too Manolo.
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December 1, 2010 10:09am
Viking2

Posted this ealier on Barbarians from yesterday.

Barbarians at the gate eh?
Well those same barbarians had better start to take notice of what is going down behind the scenes.

Tucked away in a survey by MYOB is this little gem.

A Myob survey of 1000 businesses has found that 44 per cent of businesses are dissatisfied or very dissatisfied with the support they receive from local government.

The survey also found dissatisfaction with the National Government has increased sharply with 38 per cent of businesses dissatisfied with the support they receive from Wellington, up from 29 per cent in August. (THAT’S AN INCREASE OF 31% IN DISASTISFIED BUSINESS PEOPLE. hmm NOT GOOD FOR GOVT.)

Satisfaction with central government remains low, at just 15 per cent – the same as the level reported in August.

“The economic results of the Myob Business Monitor show Kiwi businesses have been doing it tough over the last quarter, with revenue falling and pipeline work drying up.

“And some of the frustration at the slow and uneven recovery will no doubt be colouring how businesses see the performance of the Government,” said Smith.

“But at both a local and national level, it’s clear the business community feels their elected representatives are not doing enough to support their success,” he said.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10691152
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December 1, 2010 10:23am
Sarkozygroupie

Pete George,

Re point no 9

I have to say that having spent a fair bit of time in Manila for work, that the idea that AGW is the fault of the rich Western bourgoisie is blown right out the window there. I have never been to a more diesel and petrol fume polluted, filthy, carbon-monoxide/particulate choked city – and home to only 1.7 m. The smell from raw sewage being tipped into Manila Bay was particularly stomach turning one night whilst enjoying dinner by the sea. I wonder what the tonnage amount per year of human-induced methane is from the metro Manila area, which contains 20 million people.
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December 1, 2010 10:24am
jinpy

Sarkozygroupie,

Ever heard air conditions described in the industrial revolution in Europe?
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December 1, 2010 10:43am
tom hunter

I used to think that Lt Col Ralph Peters was harsh in his criticism of Bush during the Iraq War – but the following is brutal as he talks about Wikileaks and is asked why the Obama administration has not yet done anything about it:

“Because President Obama is a gutless wonder who cared more about his left-wing free cyberspace base than he did about protecting the security of the United States. No President in modern times has done anything this rotten!
…
President Obama has overseen the gravest compromise, the greatest willful compromise – because he did nothing – of our national security of any president in my lifetime!”
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December 1, 2010 10:43am
Jack5

This will piss off some Muslims and their “useful idiots” of the Left. I mean Crusaders.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/4409186/Canterbury-rugby-players-support-charity
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December 1, 2010 10:45am
Murray

Maybe Peters just really doesn’t like presidents Tom.
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December 1, 2010 10:49am
Sarkozygroupie

Of course jinpy.

What I’m saying is, given my experience in Manila, it is fair to say that AGW is not solely the domain, or fault, of the West (should one believe the IPPC and other such illustrious climate scientists in dodgy British universities 😉 )

I had thought that was fairly obvious from what I had written, but I guess not.
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December 1, 2010 10:51am
jinpy

SG,

No, you raise an important point, the developing countries presently are a massive contribution and will get even bigger. And who knows there may have been important contributions from these countries due to agriculture etc before they started developing… so not just the fault of the West.

The way forward is for developing countries to build infrastructure that supports cleaner energy. A big part of the expense for alternative energy sources in the West is the requirement to change our existing infrastructure. An optimistic chemist on RNZ the other day was saying that actually the biggest issue around photovoltaics/hydrogen based energy sources is not that there is an unsolvable technical problem but rather that existing materials, pholtovoltaics, fuel cells are just too expensive. But we should have a lot of hope around this because one thing we are very good at is incrementally reducing the cost of technologies over time.
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December 1, 2010 11:09am
Sarkozygroupie

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/4407891/Axing-gender-studies-setback-to-rights

Good job. Having experienced first hand these radicalised, man-hating, ideological lesbian-vegan-feminazis in a “women’s studies” course whilst at Waikato, I am over the moon that finally these hotbeds of revisionist lies and deceit promulgated by the leftist intelligentsia are finally being dismantled once and for all. In this particular instance Sandra Coney can piss off.

And I’m a woman saying this.
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December 1, 2010 11:15am
emmess

Regarding Wikileaks
Does anyone else think the reports are backfiring against Assange’s anti-American agenda?

e.g. China is sick of North Korea too
Arab government’s are scared shitless about Iran’s nuclear program as well
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December 1, 2010 11:22am
david

Sarkozygroupie, they must really be caught between a rock and a hard place over the Pike River situation. There were no women miners killed. Is that an example of the power of women that none were killed or is it an example of a male-dominated profession closed to women that needs someone to break the glass mine shaft?
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December 1, 2010 11:24am
Sarkozygroupie

Jinpy, agreed. I think you raise very good points about reducing costs of technology over time and bringing LDCs up to speed on efficient technologies. Social and economic determinism is a cop out, with LDCs always complaining that it is someone else’s fault they are going to sink under the waves.

I’m not sure why fuel cells are still so expensive. There has been good research in this area for decades and a PhD friend of mine, created in the UK during the mid 90’s, a new fuel cell (don’t ask me the ins and outs of it) that was substantially cheaper than the existing componentry at the time, but I don’t know if it ever took off. I presume political suasion had a big part to play.
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December 1, 2010 11:24am
Hagues

Jack5 “This will piss off some Muslims and their “useful idiots” of the Left. I mean Crusaders.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/4409186/Canterbury-rugby-players-support-charity ”

I love this line from the article “For nearly three decades Crusaders rugby players have been more than willing…” FFS the Crusaders have only existed for 15 years. There was an article when SBW was named in the ABs claiming that he had only played in 7 games, and only had one start. I had to write to them advising he had started 5 of his matches. Why is that that NZ media never seem to have basic knowledge of the subjects they write on?
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December 1, 2010 11:25am
Sarkozygroupie

david,

So eloquently put!
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December 1, 2010 11:30am
Murray

Because the New Zealand media is a sheltered workshop for polytech dropouts Hague. A good New Zealand journalist is called an “Australian journalist”.
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December 1, 2010 11:47am
tom hunter

Does anyone else think the reports are backfiring against Assange’s anti-American agenda?

Indeed – to such a degree that I’m waiting for the conspiracy theorists to crank up on this one. Witness this comment the other day, even as the leaks blew the old “Neocon” conspiracy theory (that the US & Israel are creating the Iranian nuclear threat out of whole cloth for the chance to wage war on Iran).

First Stuxnet, now this, and where has former VP Cheney really been all these months? Huh? Huh?
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December 1, 2010 11:47am
jinpy

SG, I believe its because current cells need platinum, which is expensive.
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December 1, 2010 12:02pm
Sarkozygroupie

Thanks jinpy,

This isn’t an area I know much about – as I’m sure you have already figured out!! I am also presuming platinum is a super-conductor and there is no better alternative, found or manufactured, to date. What about rare earth magnets (if super-conduction is the sticking point)? Although with China’s recent moves to tie up global resources the cost of this commodity too will become prohibitive.
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December 1, 2010 12:11pm
Manolo

The fantasies and delusions of an old Stalinist: http://msn.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10690071

Neanderton, f..k off!
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December 1, 2010 12:13pm
Jimbob

It is well known that NZ journalists’ are lazy. That is where the problem starts.
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December 1, 2010 12:13pm
Murray

They’re not jst lazy, they think their job is to tell us what to think.
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December 1, 2010 12:17pm
Sarkozygroupie

It certainly is Jimbob; laziness and the inability to critique, question or analyse whatever is fed to them on a partisan platter.
But they are also breathtakingly ignorant. Not just about their subject matter, but they seem to have no general knowledge about anything, generally in every day life. Ironically, if you were to ask one of these Gen Y, left wing, hand-wringing journalists who Rachel Carson is, and was what Silent Spring I bet you’d get a blank stare.

I’ve been amazed at the ones I’ve spoken to. Educationists who have driven this lack of questing for knowledge over the past 30 odd years should be villified and should suffer the commensurate public opprobrium for their (IMO) criminal actions that have stopped a generation fulfilling their greatest potential. Not only that by in doing so they have created a dangerous world in which the likes of Ahmedinidjin can prosper. Never let the truth get in the way of a good story.
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December 1, 2010 12:27pm
Ed Snack

Fuel Cells and PV power are wildly uneconomic now and for probably the medium term, simply because of….economics ! They cost far too much to make and produce too little power for that cost. Sure, research continues to improve the breed so to speak, but it will take time.

Consider too, that only PVs (of the two) offer a low CO2 future really. Cells require Hydrogen or a hydrogenous fuel stock. Unless you use electricity to generate H2 from water then the main source is in natural gas, which, oddly enough, contains carbon as well. So FC’s might be good for transport uses but not as primary generators.

FC’s don’t have to use Platinum, but in practice it is often the most efficient catalyst. It isn’t a superconductor except at very low temperatures like most metals. Rare Earth magnets are used in another relatively worthless product, wind generators, although they do have a minor place as generators. Rare Earths aren’t all that rare in fact, but they’re relatively difficult to extract and in particular purify. It’s usually a very dirty process and only China of late has lax enough environmental rules to allow the refining to take place on a large enough scale at low prices. The US in particular has quite reasonable ore sources for the Lanthanide metals, but they can’t easily compete on price with Chinese producers.

There is an existing technology which would require a little development in some areas, that is probably the only reasonable and economic way to reduce CO2 output (if we “must”), and that’s nuclear. And probably Thorium cycle as well because there’s many hundreds or even thousands of years of Thorium fuel available, a lot less Uranium unless we adopt the Plutonium fuel breeder cycle.

If we “must”, then its nuclear, third world living standards (peasant subsidence farming), or a massive Eugenics/population reduction program as the alternatives. And it’s not us that matters, unless China is completely involved any other action is utterly pointless, they increase their emissions of “Carbon” more in 1 year than NZ emits it total in the same year.
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December 1, 2010 12:29pm
wreck1080

Nasa to announce that ET has been found?

“NASA makes ‘astrobiology discovery,’ schedules press conference for Thursday to discuss alien life”.

Interesting, the announcement is on thursday .
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December 1, 2010 12:31pm
adze

“SG, I believe its because current cells need platinum, which is expensive.”

Also, it’s not just the transition from hydrocarbons to hydrogen – it’s the energy deficit. It’s like moving the world energy economy from living day-to-day on a credit card to a debit card. Creating and using hydrogen isn’t the problem, it’s the energy equation (you can’t get something from nothing).
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December 1, 2010 12:31pm
Lance

I love this…….

http://gizmodo.com/5702670/iran-gets-angry-after-discovering-jewish-symbol-hidden-in-plain-view
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December 1, 2010 12:32pm
Murray

Wrek is this in any way related to the myth busters guys visiting the whitehouse?
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December 1, 2010 12:35pm
Sarkozygroupie

Thanks Ed Snack and adze for explaining this to me; always keen to learn more about everything. I definitely agree nuclear is the only feasible option in future, and to support fossil fuel use. Ironic how Greenpeace is now a confirmed proponent of nuclear energy because it is clean and green.
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December 1, 2010 12:50pm
Lance

@adze
In time past I have tried to inject the very notion that it’s not so much a climate crisis we face but a looming energy crisis for which I have been told I am a fuckwit and there is plenty of things to burn.
We do indeed need to develop new/better usable energy sources because the energy density of oil products is enormous (and it is a finite resource) and our collective lifestyles have expanded the use of the energy astronomically. A simple example is car engines circa 1950 developed about 10 horsepower, anything under 120 HP now is considered a gutless micro-car. Also there used to be 1 car per household.
This is considered progress (and it probably is) but we need a new understanding of the implications of failing to find enough energy to maintain and grow this technological lifestyle. Basically we not only go backwards technically, lots of people die as not enough food can be produced.
Sure that’s worst case but also you don’t ignore it.
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December 1, 2010 1:09pm
RightNow

There’s a glut of solar panels on the way: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-11-16/solar-panel-makers-face-supply-glut-armageddon-chart-of-day.html
“That will glut the market next year for photovoltaic panels, which turn sunlight into electricity, and drive the price manufacturers can charge down to as low as $1.10 per watt from about $1.80 this year, Johnson said.”

In Germany the subsidies for solar are huge but are set to be reduced. Merrill Lynch reported:
“We calculate the average German household is paying roughly €200 per year for solar subsidies at present. The feed in tariff for new installations is set to fall 13% in January but if demand remains strong in H1 2011, which we think it will, then there could be an additional cut in July, just like what happened this year. Germany accounts for roughly 60% of the global solar market and is therefore crucially important for driving utilisation, pricing and profitability of the manufacturers.”
sourced from http://bishophill.squarespace.com/blog/2010/11/30/bottom-falls-out-of-solar.html#comments
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December 1, 2010 1:17pm
Lance

@Rightnow
No doubt this was overheated by ridiculous subsidies that creates bubbles.
But the real problem is power supply and the power grid in most western countries is fucked by under-resourcing from the 1980’s onwards.
This sort of solar tech looked attractive recently as both solving/helping the grid and the AGW issue. But make no mistake the underlying problem is the power grid and that is why govt’s are offering subsidies to anything that costs less then trillions of dollars to help fix the ‘grid’.
This is a complicated issue but it is real.
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December 1, 2010 1:28pm
wreck1080

Here is a quote from the NZ police, on a defendants request not to convict because a drug conviction would hinder travel…..

“Police opposed the request, saying there was no evidence to justify a conviction would necessarily bar entry to any particular country.”

I think the police have lied. Here is a quote from the US immigration website…

“Some travelers are not eligible by law to enter the United States. These include people with certain serious communicable illnesses, criminal records (particularly those involved with drugs), previous deportations from the U.S., certain visa refusals and other problems with U.S. immigration laws or visas.”

Incidentally, the person in question, is Phil Rudd, AC/DC drummer and lives on a boat in Tauranga .

In this case, I’m with Phil. Pathetic conviction .
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December 1, 2010 1:36pm
Sarkozygroupie

Lance thanks for that link to the magen david (Star of David) on top of Mehrabad airport. I was wondering how pilots/travellers could have missed it for so long. But then I thought about how when I flew in and out of Tehran you actually don’t get a good view of Mehrabad terminal, so I can understand it. Ahmadinejad better be careful lest he expire from unresolved apoplexy because of those cheeky scoundrel Jews.
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December 1, 2010 1:36pm
RightNow

The New York Times treatment of wikileaks and climategate material.

“The documents appear to have been acquired illegally and contain all manner of private information and statements that were never intended for the public eye, so they won’t be posted here.”–New York Times, on the Climategate emails, Nov. 20, 2009

“The articles published today and in coming days are based on thousands of United States embassy cables, the daily reports from the field intended for the eyes of senior policy makers in Washington. . . . The Times believes that the documents serve an important public interest, illuminating the goals, successes, compromises and frustrations of American diplomacy in a way that other accounts cannot match.”–New York Times, on the WikiLeaks documents, Nov. 29, 2010
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December 1, 2010 1:40pm
RightNow

Lance – I think (just my opinion) that after they run out of other people’s money for alternative energy subsidies there’ll be a big increase in nuclear energy, as well as large scale adoption of shale gas.
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December 1, 2010 1:44pm
Sarkozygroupie

Re: wikileaks:

“What worries me is the mixing of diplomatic tasks with downright espionage. You cross a border … if diplomats are encouraged to gather personal information about some people,” UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon said.

Like the Residentura’s in every Russian diplomatic mission never indulged in espionage. Fucking UN hypocrites.
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December 1, 2010 2:22pm
jinpy

Ed,

Thanks for the info. I think the idea with countries where it might be viable (high sunshine hours) would be to produce hydrogen using PVs and use that to power vehicles but then perhaps in that case it would be just as easy to power a battery directly. ..

Nuclear has to be an option on the table. Personally I don’t think the risk is worth it in a country as small as NZ though.

Some may not see the point but if we incentivize research on energy generation and transmission by factoring in some of the potential costs of our current fossil fuel economy (i.e. environmental) into the price, then we should get faster improvements in technologies — ultimately you would imagine that we might be able to increase the efficiency for PVs and decrease their costs to ‘economically’ utlise this resource in areas where that’s practical. Some have suggested that companies and countries will just cynically get around any attempts to do this, or that there is no need to this in the first place.

Environmental problems, of one kind or another, are not going to go away though. I personally think the bigger problem could be around catastrophic loss of biodiversity. This doesn’t get talked about as much as it should IMO.
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December 1, 2010 2:33pm
Komata

SG

‘Educationists who have driven this lack of questing for knowledge over the past 30 odd years should be villified and should suffer the commensurate public opprobrium for their (IMO) criminal actions that have stopped a generation fulfilling their greatest potential. Not only that by in doing so they have created a dangerous world in which the likes of Ahmedinidjin can prosper. Never let the truth get in the way of a good story.’

Careful SG – too may BIG words – the learned ‘Educationalists’ won’t be able to understand them. . .

(After all, they’re a product of ‘the system’ too – ‘victims’ teaching ‘victims’ perhaps?)
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December 1, 2010 2:43pm
Pete George

stopped a generation fulfilling their greatest potential

How can one reach one’s greatest (or full) potential? This is a term used quite often but it’s an impossible target.
A palavery platitude.
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December 1, 2010 2:49pm
Manolo

A lowlife gets an incredible lenient sentence. Of course, pushing primitive Te Reo down the throat of the rest of New Zealand is more important to Maori “leadership” than addressing violence. Please, read on:

A Cambridge man who severely injured his baby daughter by shaking her has avoided prison. Jacob Tatana was sentenced to three months’ home detention and 150 hours of community work when he appeared in the Hamilton District Court. He had pleaded guilty to a charge of injuring by unlawful act related to shaking his three-month-old daughter Kayla Anne Tatana.

Judge Glen Marshall originally considered a sentence of seven months in jail – the maximum penalty is three years – but reduced it due to mitigating factors. Tatana was looking after Kayla, while his partner was at work.’
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December 1, 2010 3:01pm
starboard

What a joke of a punishment. As Michael Laws said this morn on radio live…Judge Glen Marshall..twat of the week.
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December 1, 2010 3:11pm
Ryan Sproull

Do you think that he’s plotting to murder his 3-month-old baby?
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December 1, 2010 3:34pm
Fletch

Is it just me of is kiwiblog loading very slowly right now? Someone been adding more trackers/ads?
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December 1, 2010 4:05pm
Sarkozygroupie

Not intended as a platitude – plalavery or otherwise – PG – possibly not worded in the best manner, but striving to fulfill your potential is greatly helped if you are given the basic skills to attempt it. When people can’t even think or analyse for themselves and swallow whatever they are told as a matter of course, it’s pretty hard to achieve a higher level of knowledge. And we all know knowledge is power.
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December 1, 2010 4:13pm
Manolo

Blame it on slow access to scoop.co.nz.
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December 1, 2010 4:17pm
Pete George

It’s just a term I’m not fussed on Sarkozy it’s good to strive to do your best, it’s good to be as well equipped as possible to do that, but there is no way of reaching that peak, there are always further mountains left unclimbed.
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December 1, 2010 4:36pm
starboard

I see the oil companies have increased the price of fuel today. Oh yes thats right , the dollar has dropped againsted the US so imports are now dearer. But hang on , the dollar went to .79 against the US and sat around that figure for some months..why did we not see a corresponding drop in the price of fuel at the pumps then ?
Oil companies take it up the bum.
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December 1, 2010 4:42pm
dad4justice

starboard can’t blame the oil companies, as the world knows this country is the pc land of weak gutted morons. No wonder 10,000 kiwis a year leave this pathetic cess pit.
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December 1, 2010 5:19pm
MikeNZ

Income tax of 8% and Gst of 14%
Wish it were here.
39% and 15%

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3990267,00.html

In addition, Hamas has been implementing a new tax system: 14% value added tax, 8% income tax. For each liter of gas flowing into the Strip from Gaza and sold for about NIS 2 (50 cents), the government charges 60 agorot (16 cents). A fee is imposed on all goods arriving from Israel. Each new motorcycle smuggled through the tunnels carries an NIS 300 ($82) tax.
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December 1, 2010 6:18pm
Hurf Durf

Martyn Bradbury shuts down freedom of speech on his blog, presumably because he doesn’t like unregistered people telling him how much of a dolt he is for his moronic trolling masquerading as opinion. Probably thinks it’ll make it easier for him to track down dissenters after La Revolucion.

What a berk.
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December 1, 2010 6:30pm
dad4justice

The kiwi keystones are the sick joke of the sane world

http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/8429747/mine-rescue-must-not-remain-with-mr-plod-aust-editor/
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December 1, 2010 6:36pm
adze

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/4407938/Vicious-bashing-at-campground

Just goes to show that people that live in tents shouldn’t throw turds…

Not that I don’t feel sympathy for the guy. I can’t stand ignorant chodes who attention-whore with their cars when people are trying to sleep. I’d be tempted to throw a grenade.
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December 1, 2010 6:46pm
dad4justice

Do they teach mine rescue at keystone cop college?
Only in New Zealand. What a sick country.
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December 1, 2010 6:55pm
adze

Meh, it’s no surprise seeing at least one Australian media player putting the boot in. Besides the sheep jokes-that-never-get-old, it’s like their default setting on any NZ topic.
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December 1, 2010 7:04pm
dad4justice

adze – West Coasters affected by the mine tragedy are livid with the NZ police. What the f##k are the dumb arse keystone cop clowns anywhere near a disaster area. Ask any Coaster if you don’t believe me. Cops beat up old miners eh Mac. I said I’d say it on here m8.
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December 1, 2010 7:14pm
WebWrat

I remember that Dad … beat him up and rammed him into a power pole. Poor old bugger walking home from the pub.

Shit there were some arsehole cops in Greymouth … wonder if it’s changed?
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December 1, 2010 7:28pm
dad4justice

Webwrat – the cowardly cop that beat the crap out of a retired miner was rewarded just to rub salt into the wounds.
I was beaten senseless in Greymouth cop shop, ask paramedics at Grey Hospital. The filth are still the same. Coasters will seek natural justice in due time.
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December 1, 2010 7:31pm
WebWrat

One of their favorite activities was to shoot for the the local poacher. They used to fly around poaching any where they liked and even shot deer behind deer fencing.
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December 1, 2010 7:37pm
dad4justice

Not to mention what the filth get up to come dope recovery time. Police corruption in New Zealand is beyond f##king belief.
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December 1, 2010 7:39pm
Johnboy

“I’d be tempted to throw a grenade.”

A tent peg hole through their radiator is much better Adze (don’t let them see you doing it though).

Nice and quiet and it usually takes the thickos at least 10k’s to notice they have just totaled the engine. 🙂
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December 1, 2010 8:28pm
big bruv

“Police corruption in New Zealand is beyond f##king belief.”

Strange, the other 4.2 million of us are mostly happy with our police.

Perhaps you should stop being arrested.
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December 1, 2010 8:57pm
dad4justice

I knew the coward of kiwiblog would drop in for a back stab. Do you know anybody who is the victim of false allegations big blouse you obsessed nutbar. Don’t answer creep. F##k you make me sick!
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December 1, 2010 9:04pm
dad4justice

Hey big blouse still far too frightened to explain your pathological hatred of me to my face.
Yeah right. Pigs fly eh coward.
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December 1, 2010 9:10pm
big bruv

Hang on a moment D4J, take a deep breath and think about your constant avalanche of abuse toward the NZ police.

You endlessly bang on about how corrupt the Police are, yet very few of your fellow countrymen feel the same way, indeed, the only people I normally hear talking like that are the ones who have been charged and convicted of a crime.

The amazing thing about these people is that not one of them is guilty!, imagine that, every single conviction in NZ is unsafe, one would think that there would be rioting in the streets……only problem with that D4J is that the vast majority of Kiwis support the cops and the shitty job they have to do.

In your case it seems that these ‘false allegations” are never ending, they seem to follow you around like a bad smell. Tell me D4J, do you ever stop and think that perhaps it might be something you are doing that is causing these problems?, do you ever think that perhaps the cops are just doing their job?

Do you ever wonder why the rest of us can go about our business without ever having contact with the cops?
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December 1, 2010 9:13pm
dad4justice

Ask the cops about who solved a couple of murders on the West Coast you insane twisted creep. You know NOTHING ABOUT WHAT I DO. Go away you cowardly smear!

You are ONE VERY SICK UNIT. I would love to show you some evidence of my work, face to face. Your cowardly nature makes that impossible eh gutless wonder. You need a lesson.
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December 1, 2010 9:15pm
big bruv

D4J

Once again, and for the record, I do not have a “pathological hatred of you”, I just think you are a dick. You also need to take a hold of your ego, trust me when I say this D4J, you are not worth the time and energy for anybody to develop a “pathological hatred” of you.

Most of the time I ignore you, however I will nearly always defend the NZ police, especially from moon bats like you.

If you cannot handle people disagreeing with you or pulling you up on your most outlandish (some might say stupid) statements then tough fucking luck.
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December 1, 2010 9:22pm
big bruv

“Ask the cops about who solved a couple of murders on the West Coast”

Lol…so you double as Agatha Christie on your weekends off do you?

Jesus wept!, you really do have an over inflated sense of your own self importance.
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December 1, 2010 9:24pm
dad4justice

As I said cowardly smear you KNOW NOTHING OF THE WORK I DO for the community.
Your obsession with redbaiter and myself leads me to the conclusion that it is all based on your intense hatred of Christianity. I do notice that billy borker and fot have stopped posting. You suffer from both a pathological hatred and a split personality disorder. Poor chap keep taking the pills. I will say a prayer for you. Such a disturbed person needs all the help he or she can get.
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December 1, 2010 9:28pm
Johnboy

I’d take up the offer BB.

KK prayed for me a while ago and I’ve never felt better. 🙂

I’ve almost left the sheep alone since then! 🙂
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December 1, 2010 9:32pm
Luc Hansen

D4J and bb

Come on guys! Get a life!

Today’s big international news:

1. DADT is emphatically rejected by those who matter, the grunts. Will it get repealed? Hell no.

2. Julian Assange on Interpols’s most wanted list. Hmmm…since when does Interpol issue a red notice for people merely wanted for questioning on a rape allegation? Especially since the allegation was previously found to be without foundation by the relevant authorities!

But wait, there’s more…!
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December 1, 2010 9:35pm
Johnboy

“Hmmm…since when does Interpol issue a red notice for people merely wanted for questioning on a rape allegation? ”

Roman Polanski?
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December 1, 2010 9:37pm
big bruv

Johnboy

Correct me if I am wrong (I was once, it was in 77) but are you not a Cantab?

If that is the case then I offer you my heartfelt congratulations, keep up the good work and leave the sheep for the rest of your fellow mainlanders.

As for KK…not sure he will be praying for me anytime soon. 🙂
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December 1, 2010 9:37pm
Johnboy

Wash your mouth out BB.

I have never prayed to the graven image that is Robbie Deans. 🙂
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December 1, 2010 9:39pm
big bruv

Now, now Johnboy….

According to Woopi and the rest of the luvvy left old Roman was only guilty of trying to help the girl….

Or something like that….
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December 1, 2010 9:40pm
Johnboy

What, help her mount a Pole? 🙂
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December 1, 2010 9:41pm
big bruv

I stand corrected Johnboy…

Guess that means you are not a fan of the ‘darkie quota” that the Crusaders have either?
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December 1, 2010 9:42pm
Johnboy

I have always preferred white sheep in the flock BB, black ones tend to lower the overall quality of the clip one way or another.
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December 1, 2010 9:48pm
big bruv

Ok…..not quite the way I would have framed it but hey…

Seems like KK might have been doing some might strong praying there Johnboy, be careful, pretty soon you will be praising Sarah Palin for her “brain” instead of her killer legs.
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December 1, 2010 10:00pm
Johnboy

I see nothing wrong with having an ex-cheerleader rising to POTUS BB.

After all what is a President for other than cheerleading. 🙂

You’re right though, she has far better legs than any previous President.
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December 1, 2010 10:11pm
Shunda barunda

I’ve got legs, two of them!
They look like pungas.
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December 1, 2010 10:16pm
Luc Hansen

johnboy shows his ignorance again…Polanski skipped bail.
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December 1, 2010 10:37pm
Sarkozygroupie

PG, I see where you are coming from re: phraseology and see your point of view makes a lot of sense (about a thousand posts back!).

Komata

“Play the ball not the man”. As an educationist I would have thought you would be striving to encourage mastery of the English language. Instead you denigrate and mock me for using “BIG” words (of more than one syllable). I suppose that when one believes the path of ignorance is no worse than the path of knowledge or inquiry, making judgements about the spectacular intellectual limitations of journalists (and the lack of quality of the pedagogical cohort due to rigid and uncaring dogma), who as we all know have had the full impact of primary, secondary and tertiary education, is something to be attacked.

Nonjudgementalism (the only and highest virtue in this day and age) – a rush of neutrality toward human character is not generous, but is stupid; a kind of prophylactic against learning from experience.

Sorry, there I go using BIG words again. Note to self: must practice dumbing down more to make educationists feel more comfortable in their own skins.

My point remains. Why are these people, having recieved education from educationists like you, so ignorant they are not able to inquire? Your personal comment about me is nothing more than an unsubtle a red herring trying to deflect my inquiry – but we can’t have that now can we?
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December 2, 2010 8:39am
Sarkozygroupie

DPF – there appears to be an ongoing fault with the edit button. It will not let me fix spelling errors.
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December 2, 2010 8:42am
Rodders

Sarkozygroupie, I had the same problem. However, I noticed that the clock on my PC was a few minutes fast. Once I corrected the clock, everything was ok from then onwards.
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December 2, 2010 8:52am
Sarkozygroupie

Thanks Rodders, I will try that.
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December 2, 2010 8:53am

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