General Debate 8 November 2010

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Rodders

My heart bleeds for them (!)

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/4317632/Councillors-already-demanding-pay-rise
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November 8, 2010 8:08am
Murray

Unless the pay has been reduced sonce they decided to run for office I think a good helping of STFU and do your damn job is in order.

Politicians, people not fit to live in the real world.
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November 8, 2010 8:16am
Don the Kiwi

True, the pay rates were set before the election; but I’ve gotta say that $80k pa. living in Auckland is a very ordinary pay rate – I know carpenters who earn more that that.
Mind you, they probably work harder, and they can’t hang around with snout in trough.
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November 8, 2010 8:27am
Grant Michael McKenna

I have not read this book, but I love the Product Description:
Virtually all American judges are former lawyers. This book argues that these lawyer-judges instinctively favor the legal profession in their decisions and that this bias has far-reaching and deleterious effects on American law. There are many reasons for this bias, some obvious and some subtle. Fundamentally, it occurs because – regardless of political affiliation, race, or gender – every American judge shares a single characteristic: a career as a lawyer. This shared background results in the lawyer-judge bias. The book begins with a theoretical explanation of why judges naturally favor the interests of the legal profession and follows with case law examples from diverse areas, including legal ethics, criminal procedure, constitutional law, torts, evidence, and the business of law. The book closes with a case study of the Enron fiasco, an argument that the lawyer-judge bias has contributed to the overweening complexity of American law, and suggests some possible solutions.

http://www.amazon.com/Lawyer-Judge-Bias-American-Legal-System/dp/1107004756?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1288971104&sr=1-1
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November 8, 2010 8:27am
Murray

Don… boo freaken hoo. Seriously. How many people interview for a job, discuss the terms and conditions, get offered and accept the job then demand a bloody pay rise on day one?

Wheres the fucking 90 day law for these troughers?
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November 8, 2010 8:30am
Pauleastbay

Don

I knows one of the councillors reasonably well and had a yarn to him after the election. They are only needed two days a week, there will be reading etc to do,but $80K isn’t bad, as a base. Also they pick up a lot more for Chairman jobs and commitiee work plus mileage etc etc.

He’s actually staying at his day job to fill in his week
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November 8, 2010 8:40am
Pete George

While the last day if a test in India makes the result far from certain a lot of credit should be given to the Black Caps for their competitive efforts on days 2-4, especially the bowling of Martin with a severely depleted lineup.
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November 8, 2010 8:42am
stephen

While the last day if a test in India makes the result far from certain a lot of credit should be given to the Black Caps for their competitive efforts on days 2-4, especially the bowling of Martin with a severely depleted lineup.

I never doubted Martin, except I totally did.
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November 8, 2010 8:45am
Guy Fawkes

Really all the Councillors that are unhappy with the base ate salary should be invited to tender their resignations forthwith, so that the next best placed candidate should be offered the job with all the terms and conditions fully explained.

I really don’t think that any review should take place for a minimum of one year in a normal economic enviroment.

This is dire at the moment.Hence 3 years seems much more sensible. Greedy Politicians are Scum. There are too few good ones.
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November 8, 2010 8:47am
Pete George

It is bizarre to see them wanting a pay review almost before their first payslip. Councillor pay rates should be set for the full term of the contract.

This is a warning sign, I hope there will be full disclosure on expenses so they can be monitored in case they decided to “pay” themselves a bit.
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November 8, 2010 8:56am
Inventory2

The last three days have provided some of the best test cricket one could wish to see. The Black Caps were down and out after the first day, when India was 329-3. That they are now in a position to possibly record the most unlikely of wins is nothing short of amazing. The guts and determination that the Black Caps have shown in this match has silenced this detractor for the moment.
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November 8, 2010 9:14am
kaya

Don the Kiwi – Apart from the fact that they knew exactly what the pay rates were your implication is that 80k is “ordinary”? If they don’t like it they should have saved everyone’s time and effort by not standing in the first place. Now they are there they can always use the council stationary and write a letter of resignation. Then go get a job as a carpenter, oh that’s right, they don’t do “real jobs” do they?
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November 8, 2010 9:16am
Murray

Sack every conciler who is doing an olvier twist impersonation and have another election.

New Zealand politicians need to learn to be afraid of the people, not the other way round.
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November 8, 2010 9:16am
MT_Tinman

I2, it hasn’t silenced this detractor who has noticed that NZ’s score was boosted dramatically by two atrociously bad umpiring decisions in their favour and the fact that NZ has to bat last on a wearing track against three very good spin bowlers (and two good ones ) and two more than useful medium pacers.
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November 8, 2010 9:46am
TripeWryter

I went to the open day at Parliament yesterday. It was very good. Hadn’t been in some of the corridors for years. Went down into the national crisis management centre.

They handed out balloons, and one little Chinese girl was heartbroken after she let hers go and it shot to the ceiling of the debating chamber, to bob against the ceiling. Wonder if it will still be there when the House sits.

I was pleasantly surprised by the racial-ethnic diversity of the staff, contrasted with those there when I was first taken through Parliament in the 60s — mostly men, often with a huge sense of self-importance. I still remember one telling me to ‘sit up straight’ in my seat in the public gallery in 1965 simply because he could.

A lot of immigrants, or visitors to this country, were there, too.

The Supreme Court was open. Whatever abortion the architects made of the outside, they and the engineers certainly got it right inside the cone-like chamber. It was amazing. If you were seated in the back row of the public seating you could clearly hear comments being made on the bench.

I tried out a couple of the justices’ chairs. The must have been adjusted specially for the judges. McGrath J must be tall. The former Justice Wilson must be short. The chair for him still has its sticky label with his name on it …
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November 8, 2010 9:48am
Atheist1

Tripewryter – pretty sure the former Justice Wilson is much taller than Justice McGrath! Odd.
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November 8, 2010 10:09am
Rodders

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/4319945/Treasury-reports-2-2b-blowout

Considering the earthquake, a big blowout can’t be unexpected.
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November 8, 2010 10:35am
dime

BAHAHAHA a pay rise already??

So, when they campaigned, did they not check the pay rate?
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November 8, 2010 11:03am
Komata

The did, Dime, they did – it’s just that, they learn quickly in Auckland and having been successfully elected, they can now feeed their well-developed sense of ‘entitlement’ and hone it to a peak of perfection. After all, Len Brown IS a socialist, and we all know how those with that political-persuasion view the public purse . . . (Cue opening stanza of the Beatles song ‘Piggies’: ‘Have you seen the little Piggies . . . ‘)
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November 8, 2010 11:35am
david

Do you hear the people sing?
Singing a song of angry men?
It is the music of a people
Who will not be slaves again!
When the beating of your heart
Echoes the beating of the drums
There is a life about to start
When tomorrow comes!
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November 8, 2010 11:54am
david

Aaaah … if only
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November 8, 2010 11:55am
flipper

Change of subject (not time to read above…must wOrk for living)….

Yesterday…. 150 Y (SESQUI CENTENNIAL) anniversary of election of Abraham Lincoln (a REPUBLICAN) AS PRESIDENT OF USA – November 6, 1860 (US time).

He did more good (ultimately) for Obama’s fclks than BO himself.
After the (ivy leaGURE, n AND wASXHINGTON BASED ) crap on Q + A yesterday thjis is worth remembering.
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November 8, 2010 12:28pm
flipper

Wish you provided time for proper review DPF
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November 8, 2010 12:32pm
minto57

CEO David Kennedy needs to front up that the League Fans were treated with disdain and drunken idiots were allowed to run riot. The envoiriment towards the end was unsafe due inadequate crowd control.

All the spin on the booing of the Australian Athemn distracts that there were no ushers, the concourse was overloaded
gates were shut off and what marshalls there were, were clueless.
The decision to use plastic bottles was poor, plastic cups cannot get thrown far.
It seems profit was pushed over control.
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November 8, 2010 1:08pm
MT_Tinman

How disgraceful it is that Eden Park management should expect bullrush fans to behave like rugby fans do and just watch and support their team eh Minto.
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November 8, 2010 1:37pm
Rodders

flipper, have you found you had less than 3 minutes to edit your message? I got caught out when my PC’s clock was a few minutes fast – it wouldn’t let me edit at all. Once I corrected the clock, no problems from then on.
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November 8, 2010 1:46pm
Pauleastbay

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/grandma-caught-trying-to-sell-grandson/story-e6freuy9-1225949364927

You couldn’t make this up, Christ its sad, sell you grandson to pay off a car.
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November 8, 2010 2:07pm
Don the Kiwi

Okay, okay.

Didn’t know that the $80k was for only two days.

Support withdrawn.

……..Yeah, they’re just a bunch of greedy entitlement loaded troughers.
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November 8, 2010 2:11pm
stephen

It’s a symptom of society’s decline that General Debate hasn’t accumulated over 140 posts by 2:52 in the afternoon. I despair.
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November 8, 2010 2:52pm
RightNow

I’ll see if i can generate some debate with this then, some climate change shenanigans involving the Urban Heat Island effect and studies in China.

“Jones identifies an urban warming signal in China of 0.1 degrees C per decade. Or, if you prefer, 1 degree C per century. Not negligible by any means.”

That’s Phil Jones, of some notoriety, identifying that UHI in China is equivalent to 1 degree C per century.

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/11/07/phil-jones-and-the-chinese-weather-station-corruption/#more-27534
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November 8, 2010 2:59pm
Lucia Maria

Pauleastbay,

A couple of days ago you identified yourself as a Catholic to me.

Yet I have seen you break the second command twice since then.

You obviously don’t take your religion seriously.
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November 8, 2010 4:05pm
Pauleastbay

Lucia

I’ll take care of me, you take care of you.

I take the Lords name in vain often and blaspheme constantly because nothing annoys me more than other people trying to run my life with their narrow views on things

Second to that, I abhor zealotry. A condition particular, but not confined to converts.

You identified yourself to me and others here as someone with a nice wee streak of racisim ,so to quote one of the few bits of relegious legislation I rememeber…let those without sin caste the first stone etc etc……

I hope this has been put nicely for you because otherwise I will just be completly boorish and say stop being a onanist.
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November 8, 2010 4:24pm
big bruv

“Yet I have seen you break the second command twice since then.

You obviously don’t take your religion seriously.”

Yep….another shining example of religious tolerance.
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November 8, 2010 4:25pm
Don the Kiwi

BB.

You wouldn’t know tolerance if it jumped up and bit you on the arse, judging by some of your commenting here.

What did Pauleastbay say about that first stone……….?
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November 8, 2010 5:09pm
big bruv

Oh Don…you say the most hurtful things.
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November 8, 2010 5:11pm
Don the Kiwi

BB.

I’ll get you a mop and bucket if you want.
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November 8, 2010 5:14pm
minto57

Rugby drunken idiots (East stand memories) behave exactly the same as Rugby League drunken idots fact is the the event managers allowed the situation to get out of control.
So forget your pompus remarks fans all look the same in the gutter.
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November 8, 2010 5:39pm
MT_Tinman

Obviously you attend a lot of bullrush matches Minto and have experience seeing bullrush fans piled in the gutter.

Haven’t noticed a single one after rugby games although there was the Hornby bullrush guy a couple of years ago who was invited to view rugby and disgraced himself – we just concluded it was his normal behaviour.
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November 8, 2010 5:49pm
Dirty Rat

Tinny
You are of course correct, that boorish behaviour never happens in the Clapping Politely game

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-548003656074359285#
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November 8, 2010 6:18pm
big bruv

So…….it’s day five, the game is being played in India, the home of the spin bowler, all over the world people have told you that you are the best left arm spinner in the world. You are leading your country in a tight test match, the game is all set up for you to do what a “world class” spinner is supposed to do on day five and bowl your team to victory, you should be unplayable on this wicket, the ball should be turning square……

So why the fuck can Vettori not turn the ball one bloody inch????
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November 8, 2010 6:57pm
WebWrat

I get the shits every time I drive past a canola paddock in Canterbury.

Can’t believe how Key and Co have been sucked in by the AGW scam. I have to believe they’ve been sucked in, otherwise they are just as corrupt as the last lot.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/11/the_biofuels_scam.html
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November 8, 2010 8:30pm
Lucia Maria

Paul,

Blasphemy, done will full consideration, knowledge and purpose is a mortal sin. That means that if you receive Holy Communion without going to confession first, then you are also guilty of the sin of sacrilege. Another mortal sin. Mortal sin means that you are cut off the grace of God.

Maybe you don’t like this pointed out, but, think for a minute. If I said nothing, and you never considered what you were doing, your soul would be at serious risk. Moreso than the atheists here, because you should know better. Pointing this out is a work of spiritual mercy. You might even thank me in the future.

As for my apparent racism, I’m interested as to how not wanting to learn the Maori language. or not wanting to go to a Maori Mass makes me racist. It’s not being against people for who they are, it’s just not wanting to learn a particular language, or go to Mass in a particular language. So, do you consider yourself to be racist if you refuse to go to a Latin Mass?
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November 8, 2010 8:55pm
Pauleastbay

Lucia

Please, I don’t want to appear too arrogant but maybe you can try and save someone else , there’s a couple of blasphemous bastards on here that you may be able to recover, I am no chance.

I have lived a life of great sin and violence and my soul probably went south many years ago.

And nothing fucks a thread on here like relegion, I enjoy GD but not when the God Squad march into town.

I believe Red and Kris are over at Crusader rabbit having a God- athon.
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November 8, 2010 9:11pm
big bruv

“I believe Red and Kris are over at Crusader rabbit having a God- athon.”

They sure as hell are, there is plenty of “homo hating” and “Sarah loving” going on over there, I think Red has given up on changing the government via the ballot box, he is all for shooting anybody who disagrees with him these days.

Our old mate Kris even thinks that all Shelia’s should obey their husbands without question………..actually, there might be something in that one come to think of it.
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November 8, 2010 9:15pm
Lucia Maria

Paul,

And yet you want me to go to a Maori Mass. I would never have noticed you if you had never said anything. Freudian slip, perhaps? My mission is complete. I have warned you and I won’t try and convince you.

Bruv,

I didn’t realise you were married.
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November 8, 2010 9:31pm
WebWrat

More on biofuels.
http://falfn.com/CrusaderRabbit/?p=2754#more-2754
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November 8, 2010 9:32pm
kaya

WebWrat – when something doesn’t make sense, follow the money. Cui bono.
Key and co aren’t stupid and haven’t been conned, this is just another tax. Another way to squeeze a bit more out of people while pretending to save the world. What a crock.
Never forget this:

From the Hansard.
“JOHN KEY (National—Helensville) : I rise on behalf of the National Party to give the good news to the people of New Zealand—that is, the Climate Change Response Amendment Bill is a load of rubbish and the National Party will not be supporting it, for very, very good reasons indeed.

I want to start off with a broad-ranging discussion, if I may, around the Kyoto Protocol and the absolutely nonsensical road that this Government is taking New Zealand down. I know we have a Prime Minister who is very confident, and all the rest of it, but maybe she would like to step out of her office on the 9th floor and realise which planet she is on. She is on the same planet, she may be surprised to learn, as India, China….This is a complete and utter hoax, if I may say so. The impact of the Kyoto Protocol, even if one believes in global warming—and I am somewhat suspicious of it—is that we will see billions and billions of dollars poured into fixing something that we are not even sure is a problem. Even if it is a problem, it will be delayed for about 6 years. Then it will hit the world in 2096 instead of 2102, or something like that. It will not work”

http://tinyurl.com/2udr65p

That’s the John Key I voted for, I am still waiting to hear about the epiphany he had since then. Not a peep. You’d think with such powerful insight he would share it with all the doubters out there. As someone else said elsewhere:

“This ETS crosses the line between the government being there to serve the people to a government acting as a giant, global, green, stock exchange with the investors (us) having no choice but to become 2bit players only so that the ticket clipers (sic) can create and control an income stream for a few.”
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November 8, 2010 9:33pm
RightNow

Did Pete George get banned or has he got a job?
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November 8, 2010 9:36pm
WebWrat

“Key and co aren’t stupid and haven’t been conned, this is just another tax. Another way to squeeze a bit more out of people while pretending to save the world. What a crock.”

In other words, he’s corrupt kaya.

I really hoped we might have got rid of corruption when the last lot left.
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November 8, 2010 9:36pm
RightNow

or is he Redbaiter’s alter ego?
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November 8, 2010 9:37pm
nickb

So why the fuck can Vettori not turn the ball one bloody inch????

Rofl. Sure he is a great allrounder but sometimes I think he is a bit overrated. Many batsmen seem to play him on reputation and not the ball.
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November 8, 2010 9:38pm
kaya

RightNow – re Pete George, his mum died last week of cancer. He posted about it here:

http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2010/11/general_debate_07_november_2010.html#comment-763012
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November 8, 2010 10:17pm
RightNow

Oh I must have missed it. Condolences Pete.
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November 8, 2010 10:43pm
kaya

By the day, more and more Americans are being educated about why their country is in financial shit hole and it has nothing to do with politicians. When the numbers hit critical mass there will be another revolution.

http://dailybail.com/home/video-the-fed-celebrates-a-century-of-domination.html

Thr fuckers even have the cheek to go back to Jekyll Island for their knees up!
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November 8, 2010 10:52pm
JiveKitty

Ahh, blasphemy, just one of the many delightful social control mechanisms to stop the Christian faith, amongst others, being criticised.
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November 8, 2010 11:07pm
Offshore_Kiwi

JiveKitty, wrong wrong wrong. There is no reason for you or any of the other atheists and agnostics who appear here to take the Lord’s name in vain. The concept of blasphemy does not apply to you. Assuming you are not a Christian, you don’t have the perspective a Christian has. Lucia has merely pointed out to pauleastbay that as a catholic he should refrain from using the name of his Saviour as an expletive. Repeat, he should CHOOSE to do this because he believes Christ is Lord and in that belief it is wrong for him to use the Name of the Lord in the way he has.

You, Bruv and the others here who do not have that perspective, need not make the same choice.

See the cool thing about Christianity is we don’t go around telling non-Christians what to do. Or cutting off their heads, for that matter.
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November 8, 2010 11:22pm
John Gibson

Offshore-Kiwi: bullshit , Christians are always running around telling people not to have abortions (and on occasions killing doctors who perform abortions) , not be homosexual , not to do a whole range of other things of a sexual nature and that they will rot in hell if they don’t believe the same deluded nonsense they do. Newsflash , there is no God or gods.
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November 8, 2010 11:31pm
JiveKitty

I’m not sure I’ve blasphemed on Kiwiblog. I find it unlikely.

Paul appears to have a somewhat different view on blasphemy even as an apparent believer. Given religion is pretty much a pick and mix bag, it’s not surprising. But Offshore Kiwi, you’re wrong. You may not tell non-Christians what to do because of your Christian beliefs, but others certainly do. Specifically, in the context of blasphemy (and laws around it), take a look at Finland, Ireland, Greece, Spain, and even the UK. There are likely more that I have not mentioned, but those are countries I can think of offhand that have blasphemy laws around Christianity (sometimes specific brands – for the Greeks, it’s the Orthodox Church).
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November 8, 2010 11:41pm
Offshore_Kiwi

Well done, John Gibson. I was talking about the use of words and how certain words take on different meanings with different frames of reference, and you jump straight into probably the single-most emotive issue for Christians today.

Those who purport to be Christians but who kill abortionists are, IMHO, not Christians at all and in fact commit the very sin they accuse the abortionist of committing (murder).
I don’t see anyone telling anybody not to be homosexual. What I do see is many Christians saying that if someone chooses that lifestyle, there are certain practices and rituals which are then unavailable to them (such as holding office in the Church).

It is my personal opinion, based on my understanding of the Bible, that homosexuality is an abomination to God. It is my understanding that sex should be enjoyed by a man and a woman as part of a marriage. Just because that is how I see it, doesn’t mean I’m going to go around telling homos or non-married couples to quit it with the shagging. People make choices based on their frames of reference and it isn’t my place to tell people to live the way I think is right. If someone asks, on the other hand, then I will certainly share my experiences, my opinion and my faith. And yes, when asked I do tell non Christians that according to the Bible there is such a place as hell, and it is pretty warm and horrible there. But do I go round wearing a sign saying non Christians are going to burn for all eternity? No I don’t.

Newsflash, there is one God and he is an awesome God. Guess what, looks like we disagree on that one, and we’ll find out which of us is correct on the day of judgement. Hope you enjoy the heat. Thanks for asking.
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November 8, 2010 11:59pm
Shunda barunda

That’s the thing Offshore Kiwi, many people have a problem about what Christians might be saying.
I don’t see many Church’s as having much of a public profile regarding these issues any more, often an argument is perceived as Christian when it actually isn’t, abortion is a good example, plenty of non religious people strongly disagree with it.
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November 9, 2010 12:10am
Pete George

abortion is a good example, plenty of non religious people strongly disagree with it.

And going by the statistics there’s a good bet more than a few religious people either agree with it or have temporary adjustments of belief for convenience. More so for contraception.

“The proportion of Italians that identify themselves as Roman Catholic is 87.8%, although only about one-third of these described themselves as active members (36.8%).”

“High fertility persisted until the 1970s, when it plunged below the replacement rates, so that as of 2008, one in five Italians was over 65 years old.”
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November 9, 2010 6:43am
John Gibson

“there is one God and he is an awesome God.” – who under your belief system will happily torture people who , for example, have been brought up within a culture that doesn’t believe in him. Your god sounds like a sadistic narcissistic despot.
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November 9, 2010 7:23am
stephen

Sure he is a great allrounder but sometimes I think he is a bit overrated. Many batsmen seem to play him on reputation and not the ball.

No one in that match really turned it much. Vettori is overrated as a test bowler for sure – has never really done much.
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November 9, 2010 8:04am

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