General Debate 28 November 2010

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ciaron

When will goofy comment on his good mate & buddy Taito?
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November 28, 2010 8:03am
Chuck Bird

For those concerned about who will own our coastline under the proposed National/ Maori party deal? Come
along to a public meeting at the Mecca Cafe on Monday 29 November, 5.30pm-7.00pm

Hon Rodney Hide, MP for Epsom
INVITES YOU
to discuss The Foreshore and Seabed:
Who will own our coastline under the proposed
National/ Maori party deal?
Special Guest speaker; Hilary Calvert MP
ACT Spokesperson on Justice and Treaty Negotiations

For more details

http://www.act.org.nz/files/Foreshore-Meeting-Flyer.pdf
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November 28, 2010 8:06am
Viking2

If we keep doing what we have always done then why should we expect different results??

NZ in the Future.
NZ at least 50 years behind Australia

Sunday, 28, Nov, 2010 7:12AM

The man leading the think tank intended to help us catch up with Australia by 2025, doesn’t think we’ll make it for 50 years.

2025 Taskforce chairman, Don Brash, has given a speech in the town he favours for biting rhetoric, Orewa.

He’s told National Party members New Zealand won’t catch Australia on its current policy track, and nobody he’s spoken to thinks we will. Dr Brash says getting state sector spending under control is crucial, but says the National-led Government hasn’t announced any measures to reduce the deficit.

He says the Government should be looking at why a bank, trains, planes and electricity are all still in public ownership.

The National party leader also brought a renewed attack on the Maori seats during his speech. Dr Brash called New Zealand a great country, but says we’re more at risk today both economically and in terms of racial harmony, than at any time since World War II.

He says the concept of a racially-based political party would be seen as grossly inappropriate if it was wanted by any other race than Maori.

He believes there’d be an outcry if anyone tried to set up a European New Zealanders Party, and there’s no logic to Maori electorates. He says Maori are capable of being elected to Parliament on their own merits.
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November 28, 2010 8:21am
Inventory2

@ Ciaron – probably never.
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November 28, 2010 8:24am
Pete George

For while it looked like the All Blacks were struggling to finish off a long season and a tough tour, but ironically a very barely penalisable sin binning seemed to spark some digging deep and they finished off with a lot of heart and flourish.
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November 28, 2010 8:26am
Chuck Bird

Maori have and should have every right to have their own party but not special seats. Under MMP if they can make the 5% they should have the same right as any other group to form a party.
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November 28, 2010 8:30am
ciaron

IV2, then we should never stop asking… I’m not fussy, The Duck (and I don’t mean Stephen Donald) can articulate the current position if he feels inclined.
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November 28, 2010 8:38am
TimG_Oz

Interesting result in Vic election last night. Everybody is saying that the most likely result is a hung parliament, but that means that Labour would need to overturn Bentleigh where Libs are on 51.3% before postals

Very good move of the Libs to put the Greens preference last, behind Labor. The Greens are just Labor proxies here in Aus, but proxies that talk a scary, wacky line. (one candiadte wanted the speed limit reduced to 30km/h). Maybe not quite as scary as your NZ wackos though.
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November 28, 2010 8:40am
Monty

ATTENTION = Clyde Quay School Fair on this morning – grab all your pocket money and come down – Corner of Brougham Street and Elizabeth Street in Mt Victoria. Starts at 10am
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November 28, 2010 8:50am
Viking2

Seems Mr Carter has been pandering to his meat industry mates at the Expense of the Jewish Community.
Silver Fern Farms of course. You know that outfit that is constantly just over broke and continues to wreck havoc on the NZ meat market. Time it really was put out of its misery and broken up.

Carter makes quick u-turn
By David Fisher
5:30 AM Sunday Nov 28, 2010
A farming company part-owned by a Cabinet minister was able to give him a briefing about how the Government could protect its lucrative trade with Muslim countries by banning Jewish slaughtering.

Agriculture Minister David Carter supported the recommended law change but had to back down days before he was to be taken to court to justify it.

It is the second time this year Crown lawyers have had to leap to the defence of one of Parliament’s wealthiest MPs – and this time in a case in which he was forced to admit getting basic facts wrong.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10690598
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November 28, 2010 8:51am
Fletch

Flashmob, Christmas style!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXh7JR9oKVE
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November 28, 2010 8:57am
big bruv

Sonny Bill who?
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November 28, 2010 9:15am
TimG_Oz

V2. David Carter should be sacked as minister, no question.
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November 28, 2010 9:25am
pdm

big bruv – he did play a role in Gears first try but was pretty anonymous after that. Mind you Nonu was no better when he came on and was back to standing around beside rucks – probably offside. Some one must have told SBW to try some grubbers – not his forte by the look of it and I stll want to see him tested on defence.
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November 28, 2010 9:29am
Sofia

In NZ, animals are required to be stunned before being slaughtered, but the Jewish exemption to the stunning of kosher meat made it difficult for meat exporters, who feared Muslim countries would take umbrage over perceived preferential treatment of Jews. Muslims also oppose the stunning of animals.

Shenken said the decision to ban shechita meat meant kosher meat would become inaccessable and signal the end of a 170-year Jewish community in New Zealand.
NZ Jewish Council president Stephen Goodman said Carter’s decision was met with “shock, dismay and disgust”.

Advised of Carter’s backdown, 2000 chickens and 300 sheep in turn expressed their horrified dismay and disgust, but said they could be neither shocked or stunned as a result of the latest decision.
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November 28, 2010 9:36am
TimG_Oz

I wonder what Goff will say about it. Maybe something like:

“This terrible bias against the Jews is unacceptable. We at Labour support a society of multiculturalism and tolerance. Hey, did you see my picture Shaking hands with Yasser Arafat??”
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November 28, 2010 9:49am
Rodders

On this morning’s Q&A, the PM confirmed that his intention is to have a Royal Commission of Enquiry into the Pike River mining disaster. I had a look here to get an idea of the powers of a Royal Commission:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Commission
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November 28, 2010 9:50am
RobbieBlack

Just to let you know it has stopped snowing in Germany.

By the way, have you read this shit?

file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/Administrator/桌面/10%20Worst%20Holiday%20Destinations%20%AB%20Apartheid%20Fort%20New%20Zealand.htm

Kind of intersting huh?

Seems there was a problem with the link, just Google 10 worst holiday destinations.
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November 28, 2010 9:54am
RobbieBlack

Seems it is a bunch of Maoris trying to reduce the tourism industry by claiming NZ is very violent.

Imagine that.
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November 28, 2010 9:59am
RobbieBlack

OK I think I got it now:

http://newzeelend.wordpress.com/2009/03/20/
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November 28, 2010 10:00am
jcuknz

Tom Hunter … just becuase my common sense leads me to a similar conclusion to the Green Party doesn’t make me a Greenie and judging from my usual reception at the Standard I don’t think I have any leftie freinds. I also think the ACT party is right in their condemnation of the latest bill on the seabed and foreshore, a very dangerous and carelessly drafted bill … or maybe carefully drafted to be complete nonsense and food for lawyers to fight over..
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November 28, 2010 10:01am
RobbieBlack

I certainly agree with the apartheid bit.

But hey, if we drop apartheid who will suffer the most?
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November 28, 2010 10:05am
Jimbob

I think we escaped a bullet when Don Brash didn’t become Prime Minister.
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November 28, 2010 10:12am
rouppe

Now that summer is coming, can all you plonkers that own boats make sure you understand the maritime boating rules?

I was diving yesterday in a Wellington bay. Inside two hundred metres of shore you are restricted to 5 knots. I nearly got run over by some dip shit blasting along the shoreline 50 metres offshore.

Fucking assholes
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November 28, 2010 10:24am
metcalph

I wonder if the wikileaks documents has the text of Helen Clark’s apologetic letter to George Bush?
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November 28, 2010 10:24am
lofty

I am with you rouppe, I own a boat and dive, and we se our fair share of idiots on the water.

It not as if the rules are difficult to understand is it.
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November 28, 2010 10:34am
tvb

Gosh I hope the groveling apology letter is released but it would be like looking for a needle in a haystack. So far as dodging a bullet from Don Brash, I think some people, unfortunately, escaped a damn good kick in the backside. The free-loading goes on.
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November 28, 2010 10:36am
Manolo

“At least with Helen Clark, you knew where she stood on issues, even if she was a fascist.”

That makes Key’s arrogant attitude towards the public even more bewildering. He and his government will pick and choose the parts of democracy that interest them, ignoring contrary opinion.

Labour-lite has accomplished little in its two years in power. It has decided to embrace the path mapped out by its socialist predecessor to the dismay and disppointment of the many voters who expected a change.

Shame on the spineless National Party.
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November 28, 2010 10:54am
Gerrit

I am with you rouppe, I own a boat and dive, and we se our fair share of idiots on the water.

Totally agree, but try introducing mandatory boat registration so that identification of offenders can be made.

Will never happen so that you had better get used to idiots on the water.

Just as well, as with boat registration, NZL will not introduce drunk driving limits on boats as most of us boaties would be well over the limit.
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November 28, 2010 10:59am
Manolo

“Brash says the concept of a racially-based political party would be seen as grossly inappropriate if it was wanted by any other race than Maori , and believes there’d be an outcry if anyone tried to set up a European New Zealanders Party, and there’s no logic to Maori electorates. He says Maori are capable of being elected to Parliament on their own merits.”

Don Brash is 100% correct. However, the current weak government will continue supporting the racist seats as the price to pay for its convenient (and despicable) alliance with Turia and Sharples’s mob.

Prime Minister Key has a lot to answer for. But he won’t. He is too arrogant to listen to the citizens of New Zealand.
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November 28, 2010 11:06am
Offshore_Kiwi

@Ciaron (8.03am) Taito is an honorific. Philip Field is a convicted fraudster and general scumbag (he was actually both of those things by virtue of being a Liarbore party MP, but he’s been convicted of at least one of them now). I’m not sure he deserves any honorific these days except “convicted fraudster”.

@Jimbob (10.12am) if you think you’re luck the bilious bitch stole the 2005 election from Don Brash, you are sadly mistaken. A Don Brash led National government would by now have been starting to right the course away from the hard-a-port tack taken by the bilious bitch and her legion of commies, poofs and other assorted ghouls. If you think they won’t get back to business once they unseat Neville Key, you’re sadly mistaken. What New Zealand needs is a strong dose of Ruthanasia, not a smile and a wave and a dodgy deal with racist separatists.

@Manolo (10.54am) Completely agree. And said so in my recent email to my electorate MP, Peseta Sam Lotu-Iiga. I posted it over at Crusader Rabbit: http://falfn.com/CrusaderRabbit/?p=3385#comment-9433
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November 28, 2010 11:12am
reid

“Brash says the concept of a racially-based political party would be seen as grossly inappropriate if it was wanted by any other race than Maori…”

Don Brash is 100% correct.

Yeah but they are Maori aren’t they so why is it inappropriate? Newsflash: there is a national consensus the treaty process must be completed. Electoral seats are part of the settlement, albeit they are in a different arena to the land. This is why various councils have already done it and more are doing it and this will continue.

The media are quite wrong to portray this or his last Orewa speech as racist it’s nothing of the sort. Never was. But hey, look how they all behaved during the first five years of Hulun’s term of office, since when is them getting it wrong, unusual?

Also, I wouldn’t see an Asian party as racist, or a South African party or anything else. If it’s got support it’s got support. Of course, if any of those parties had racist policies that’s different but does that happen with the MP, or not?

Just because a policy is designed to address an issue of prominence within their base, doesn’t to me automatically make that policy racist.
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November 28, 2010 11:16am
Gooner

@rouppe

I’ll be watchful of you diving in *my* ocean when I’m out fishing in my boat, on the condition you keep an eye out for me when I’m cycling on *your* roads.

Deal?
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November 28, 2010 11:17am
kowtow

Any one remember the storm in the international media over the Florida reverend planning to burn a koran ?

Why no major coverage of something that really counts ;ie the planned hanging of a woman in Pakistan for blasphemy?(rhetorical question I already know the answer)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/pakistan/8164979/The-Christian-woman-facing-death-over-a-work-squabble.html
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November 28, 2010 11:23am
Lance

Matt McCarten on Q+A
What a joke

Making attempts to make unions shine as the only worthy promoters of health and safety. Evil management ignore the pleas of the helpless workers.
I know this is great time for the unions to push this angle as to oppose them is seen to be insensitive but this needs addressing.
Ask any true health and safety professional and they will tell you their biggest hindrance to safety compliance is and you will find it’s the unions.
They fight for their workers rights to NOT wear personal protective gear, they fight against one measure after another. This appears counter intuitive but it’s the truth.
Most business owners have to factor in risk as a part of the HSEA legislation and as a result want certain conditions in place.
To the extent that in some industries failure to wear personal protective gear is a dismissable offence.
A company may lose hundreds of thousands, millions or even hundreds of millions of dollars if they ignore safety.

This sort of grandstanding based on hypocrisy pisses me off.
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November 28, 2010 11:29am
Shunda barunda

For all the ignoramuses out there that think Pike River should have been open cast, here is what Pike Management said yesterday:

“But it would be physically and economically unviable, even if we could do it”

“Could do it” referring to the site being on a national park.

Blaming “greenies” for this disaster is abhorrent, and extremely disrespectful to the dead and grieving.
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November 28, 2010 12:06pm
Jack5

The Hooer-ald attack on Agriculture Minister David Carter over Jewish ritual slaughter of animals is off the mark, ill-informed, and typical of how isolated the country’s biggest newspaper is from mainstream NZ where the exports are made that keep Auckland from slipping to become a South Pacific Port-au-Prince.

Carter owns farms, and thus has shares in the two big meat co-ops, Silver Fern and Alliance. That’s how co-ops work. Suppliers own them. The Hooer-ald thinks that as a result of these shares Carter shouldn’t listen to the two big co-ops, which are the main voices of the meat production industry.

Un-fucking-believable!

Like all politicians, Carter sometimes gets on my goat. But in this case he looks to be well in the clear.

The Hooer-ald might as well have criticised Carter’s support of talks between Silver Fern and Alliance to see if there was any possibility of a merger.

What would the Auckland newspaper have? A Minister of Agriculture with no farming background? Perhaps it would have preferred Pansy Wong to fill the role.

The Hooer-ald report:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10690598
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November 28, 2010 12:17pm
Chuck Bird

Any one remember the storm in the international media over the Florida reverend planning to burn a koran ?
Why no major coverage of something that really counts ;ie the planned hanging of a woman in Pakistan for blasphemy?(rhetorical question I already know the answer)

If my memory serves me correctly many predominantly Christian countries like the US gave a lot to Pakistan recently during flooding.
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November 28, 2010 12:39pm
ciaron

@Offshore_Kiwi (11:12 am),

I know… I never used it before when referring to him, but somehow it now seems more appropriate to use the title he didn’t actually earn.
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November 28, 2010 12:41pm
kowtow

Max Hastings,historian and Tory has an interesting piece here on PC. Much can be applied to the NZ context

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1333542/Whatever-happened-freedom-speech.html#ixzz16X1YeEZa
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November 28, 2010 3:21pm
Fletch

Here we go again – Muslim teen tries to detonate a bomb during a Christmas tree lighting ceremony in Portland Oregon.

A teenager has been arrested after attempting to detonate a device moments before a Christmas tree-lighting ceremony in the US, officials have said.

Somali-born Mohamed Osman Mohamud, 19, was arrested by FBI officials on Friday evening in a car-bomb sting operation in Portland, Oregon.
The suspect is said to have driven a van to the crowded event, parked and tried to detonate a device using a mobile phone.
However, the supposed explosive was a fake, supplied to him by FBI operatives.
Mohamud shouted “Allahu Akhkbar” (God is the greatest) and tried to kick agents as they swooped in on him, prosecutors said.
“The device was in fact inert, and the public was never in danger,” the US Attorney’s Office has been reported as saying.
“This defendant’s chilling determination is a stark reminder that there are people – even here in Oregon – who are determined to kill Americans.
“The good work of law enforcement protected Oregonians in this case – and we have no reason to believe there is any continuing threat arising from this case.”

The sting operation began after an undercover agent learned that Mohamud had been in contact with an “unindicted associate” in Pakistan’s northwest frontier region.
According to a federal court document, Mohamud and the “unindicted associate” used coded language in an email in which the FBI believes Mohamud discussed travelling to Pakistan to prepare for “violent jihad”.
In June last year, an FBI agent contacted Mohamud “under the guise of being affiliated with the first associate”.
Mohamud and the undercover agent agreed to meet in Portland on July 30.
At that meeting, the agent and Mohamud “discussed violent jihad,” according to the court document.
Mohamud told the agent he wanted to set off explosives at the annual Christmas tree-lighting ceremony in Portland’s Pioneer Courthouse Square.
Mohamud, a naturalised US citizen of Corvallis, Oregon, is accused of attempting to use a weapon of mass destruction.
He will appear at Portland’s District Court on Monday.

LINK

I’m sure the Obama Administration won’t see it is anything to do with Islam. Denialists.
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November 28, 2010 4:27pm
Jack5

Excellent article, thanks Kowtow (3.21 post). I liked Hastings on the Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams.

… that supremely foolish Welsh windbag

Time for a free speech Hercules to sluice the PC muck out of the NZ stables, too.
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November 28, 2010 4:32pm
joana

[deleted by DPF as distasteful]
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November 28, 2010 4:57pm
joana

Distasteful in your view David…Time will be the great revealer…
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November 28, 2010 6:11pm
Manolo

Another useless talkfest the incompetent greenie Nick Smith will be attending in his quixotic campaign to “save the planet”: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1110/45497.html
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November 28, 2010 6:38pm
Manolo

What’s wrong with giving overpaid jobs to your mates? Ask Len Brown.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/4398164/Auton-in-line-for-a-Super-City-top-spot
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November 28, 2010 6:47pm
Hurf Durf

I think it would be useful, after days of hysteria, to remind the MSM what a real foreign policy gaffe looks like:

The Egyptian government has publicly rejected U.S. demands — and President Obama’s personal request — for monitors to observe Sunday’s parliamentary elections and for adherence to international standards of transparency and fairness.

President Hosni Mubarak’s government instead has overseen a crackdown against his political opposition, arresting at least 1,000 members of the Muslim Brotherhood, or Ikhwan, and disqualifying their leaders in many cases from even standing for election.

Cairo’s snubbing of Mr. Obama follows the U.S. president’s run of hard luck [Awwww, poor baby] in general on Middle East diplomacy. This month, Iraqi President Jalal Talabani rejected Mr. Obama’s personal request to relinquish the presidency. In 2009, the Iranian government rejected multiple offers from Mr. Obama to resume direct negotiations.

The mood from official Cairo was captured in a front-page editorial this week in the state-run and -funded newspaper, Al-Ahram, which often serves as a weather vane for the thinking inside the Mubarak regime.

“America and its experts should know and realize the Egyptian leadership role,” al-Ahram’s editor, Osama Saraya, said in the editorial. “Egypt has played and plays an important role in matters of regional peace and security … and is capable of bringing regional stability to all the areas that are regressing due to wrong U.S. policies in Sudan, Iraq, Lebanon and Palestine.

But Ebola’s so popular in the world! People listen to him, and take him seriously! Not like that Palin moron!

*cough*
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November 28, 2010 9:04pm
rouppe

@Gooner

Tsk tsk, too many assumptions

1) You seriously fish at 25 knots?

2) When you leave and return to your boat ramp are you suggesting that you don’t bother with the 5kt limit because you considerit your ocean? I guess the guy that ran over the waterskier on Lake Taupo used to think the same thing.

3) When you’re cycling, your least worry is me. I commute by motorbike. You’re much more likely to get hit by some fatty in a Prado towing his Stabi at 110kph.

Or, you could be like one of the boaties I gave a verbal to on Saturday and say “everyone else is doing it so piss off”. The maritime Police agreed with me. That other fella’s on notice.

So how about showing as much consideration for other users of the water as you demand from other users of the road. Worthy people lead by example.
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November 28, 2010 11:17pm
Fletch

I notice that George Bush’s book Decision Points has sold over 1 million copies already, is number one currently in the Amazon book store, and No. 2 in their Kindle store, so why isn’t it on sale here? Can’t see it instore at Whitcoulls or Paper Plus etc. Is it that they think it won’t be popular, or is it that the people who import books for NZ are leftist and PC?

More fool them, if that is the case, for letting ideology trump sales.
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November 29, 2010 12:05am
Pete George

Fletch, “leftist and PC” is an odd claim on this.

Books aren’t always mass released on the same day worldwide. NZ websites have different release dates over the next couple of weeks. Whitcoulls online lists it as In Stock, ships in 24 hrs. NZ bookstores will be concentrating on the Christmas market (commercialism) – GW trying to convince the world he was decisive may not rate quite so highly here.
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November 29, 2010 6:24am
Viking2

Smiths next fuckup.
Delicate balancing act ahead for minister
By Nick Smith
5:30 AM Monday Nov 29, 2010

We’ve told the Government, ‘Guys, you need a bigger toolbox and you need to think about economic instruments’,” says Alastair Bisley, chairman of the Land and Water Forum, talking about what is required to resolve the issue of water quality and its allocation.

Environment Minister Nick Smith agrees entirely. He’s just not ready to say what new economic instruments he will pull out of the box until full public consultation has been completed and officials furnish him with the technical advice needed to implement the forum report’s 53 recommendations.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz-government/news/article.cfm?c_id=144&objectid=10690037
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November 29, 2010 6:46am

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