General Debate 11 November 2011

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Nookin

Did I hear the Primary teachers spokesperson correctly on Breakfast, today? One of the reasons why they are going on strike is that remuneration might be connected to performance?
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November 11, 2010 8:04am
alex Masterley

Missed that.
I tuned out when Cunliffe was interviewed.
Potty training a 2 year old is more fun.
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November 11, 2010 8:12am
Rodders

Thugs evicted – better late than never

http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/taipa-protesters-defiant-despite-eviction-3886653
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November 11, 2010 8:32am
tvb

Ann Tolley has the patience of job but I agree she is slowly getting on top of this with her patient determination. All the ugliness is coming from the teachers which suggests they are losing.
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November 11, 2010 8:36am
TimG_Oz

11/11 … Armistice day. Lest we forget
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November 11, 2010 8:53am
BeaB

I forgot.
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November 11, 2010 9:24am
Dave Mann

Thank you for the timely reminder, TimG_Oz. I had forgotten too…
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November 11, 2010 9:33am
trout

The Union teachers have failed to drag Anne Tolley down to their level with vindictive and bullying. The Govt. is being staunch on Standards and salaries. The Labour party has hitched its wagon to the teachers in the hope that the fracas can wound the National Party. We have had intimidation of the BOT’s, hysteria and lies from the teachers, strikes, boycotts, and now a proposal to subvert the BOT’s. This is an end game, the teachers have always assumed they have public support as of right; if the activist Left take the Union further down this road and antagonize parents I can see an Actor’s Equity outcome. A big back down and the way open for the Govt. to give the sector a real shake up.
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November 11, 2010 9:34am
gazzmaniac

Time to break the unions methinks – the support from the public will never be better!
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November 11, 2010 9:36am
Right of way is Way of Right

I have been gainfully employed for some 25 years now, and am doing very well, thank you.

I’ve never been in a union!
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November 11, 2010 9:41am
dime

Anyone read George W Bush’s new book yet?

I have come across a copy, will start tonight. Should be an interesting read.
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November 11, 2010 9:43am
Pita

The Chicago Carbon Exchange ceased operating this week six months after the “Savior of the Universe” Al Gore, walked away with $18 million from the sale of his shares in the company …I wonder if the bloated fool still believes that C02 is still an evil pollutant, but perhaps not quite as much.
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November 11, 2010 9:47am
Nookin

Dime
Lots of pictures? Or did someone write it for him?
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November 11, 2010 10:00am
Lance

@ Dime
You will know if GWB wrote it himself if the grammar is hopelessly flawed and numerous ‘Bushisms’ lead you into the illogical.
Conversely if it is well written and flows logically and coherently then old Mr Ghostwriter has been at work.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the only serious contend GWB contributed was sitting for the jacket photo.
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November 11, 2010 10:12am
Lance

Bugger. Nookin beat me to it
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November 11, 2010 10:13am
Captain Neurotic

Yes, today is Armistice Day – Can’t you tell? There are hippies on every bloody corner selling white poppies!
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November 11, 2010 10:22am
dime

Nookin & Lance – you guys capable of any independent thought?
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November 11, 2010 10:32am
Fletch

There was a mysterious missile fired off the West Coast of California yesterday (probably from a submarine) and no one knows who did it. The US military says it wasn’t theirs – whose was it then?

(CBS) A mysterious missile launch off the southern California coast was caught by CBS affiliate KCBS’s cameras Monday night, and officials are staying tight-lipped over the nature of the projectile.
CBS station KFMB put in calls to the Navy and Air Force Monday night about the striking launch off the coast of Los Angeles, which was easily visible from the coast, but the military has said nothing about the launch. KFMB showed video of the apparent missile to former U.S. Ambassador to NATO Robert Ellsworth, who is also a former Deputy Secretary of Defense, to get his thoughts.

“It’s spectacular… It takes people’s breath away,” said Ellsworth, calling the projectile, “a big missile”.
Magnificent images were captured by the KCBS news helicopter in L.A. around sunset Monday evening. The location of the missile was about 35 miles out to sea, west of L.A. and north of Catalina Island.
A Navy spokesperson told KFMB it wasn’t their missile. He said there was no Navy activity reported in the area Monday evening.
On Friday night, Vandenberg Air Force Base, in California, launched a Delta II rocket, carrying an Italian satellite into orbit, but a sergeant at the base told KFMB there had been no launches since then.
Ellsworth said such tests were carried out in the Atlantic to demonstrate America’s power to the Soviets, when there was a Soviet Union, but he doesn’t believe an ICBM has previously been tested by the U.S. over the Pacific. Officially, at least, the projectile remains a mystery missile.

See video of the missile at LINK
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November 11, 2010 10:36am
Repton

Probably some teenagers or engineering students messing around..
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November 11, 2010 10:39am
Fletch

Repton, it was bigger than that. The trail left was that of an ICBM.
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November 11, 2010 10:40am
Matt

I have a proposal: Nationalise collective negotiation. This would create a government department with a name like “Department of Industrial Relations” which would provide a profesional negotiator for free for any group of workers who currently qualify as a union. Any and all collective negotiation must be done through a government negotiator.

Unions can thus be left to do their real work: politics.
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November 11, 2010 10:42am
grumpyoldhori

Fuck, that Bush does not change does he, torture is a good idea, wonder if he would think the same if some US special forces were captured out of uniform and grilled on a slow fire.
No regrets about Iraq, nope, no regrets for 4000 dead yanks, over a hundred dead Brits and christ knows how many dead Iraqis.
Oh, the poor baby had his feelings hurt when a person told the truth and stated Bush did not give a fuck about blacks, flying over them and watching them drown from his 747 was a good look.
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November 11, 2010 10:45am
MT_Tinman

Obviously a New Zealand education showing there Hori.
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November 11, 2010 10:47am
dime

tinny – just a tad.
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November 11, 2010 10:54am
Fletch

grumpy, I don’t like the idea of waterboarding either, but it saved American lives and probably stopped another US building being hit (Library Tower).

Marc Thiessen has a book out called ‘Courting Disaster: How the CIA Kept America Safe and How Barack Obama Is Inviting the Next Attack’. He interviewed those from the CIA and those doing waterboarding. In the preface he says –

President Obama declared our intelligence professionals had committed “torture.” They did nothing of the sort. And while Obama’s revelations have done enormous damage to our national security, they have also made it possible to prove that he is wrong.
Now, for the first time, the true story can finally be told: the story of how dedicated men and women at the Central Intelligence Agency went head-to-head with the world’s most dangerous terrorists, got them to tell us their plans, and kept America safe for eight years; this is the story of how Barack Obama has exposed their secrets to the enemy, unilaterally disarmed us in the face of terror, and invited the next attack.

You can read an article by Thiessen HERE in the Washington Post.

In releasing highly classified documents on the CIA interrogation program last week, President Obama declared that the techniques used to question captured terrorists “did not make us safer.” This is patently false. The proof is in the memos Obama made public — in sections that have gone virtually unreported in the media.

Specifically, interrogation with enhanced techniques “led to the discovery of a KSM plot, the ‘Second Wave,’ ‘to use East Asian operatives to crash a hijacked airliner into’ a building in Los Angeles.” KSM later acknowledged before a military commission at Guantanamo Bay that the target was the Library Tower, the tallest building on the West Coast. The memo explains that “information obtained from KSM also led to the capture of Riduan bin Isomuddin, better known as Hambali, and the discovery of the Guraba Cell, a 17-member Jemmah Islamiyah cell tasked with executing the ‘Second Wave.’ ” In other words, without enhanced interrogations, there could be a hole in the ground in Los Angeles to match the one in New York.

The memo notes that “[i]nterrogations of [Abu] Zubaydah — again, once enhanced techniques were employed — furnished detailed information regarding al Qaeda’s ‘organizational structure, key operatives, and modus operandi’ and identified KSM as the mastermind of the September 11 attacks.” This information helped the intelligence community plan the operation that captured KSM. It went on: “Zubaydah and KSM also supplied important information about al-Zarqawi and his network” in Iraq, which helped our operations against al-Qaeda in that country.

You can see video of Thiessen interviewed by Jon Stewart HERE. I think he aquits himself very well despite Stewart’s interruptions.

He makes the point that now under Obama, the Americans have to conform to the Army Field Manual that doesn’t even allow interrogation that is lawful even to police officers in New York. They can’t even look evilly at an enemy now.
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November 11, 2010 10:56am
Matt

grumpy: actually, people fighting as part of a militia (such as the taliban) have far more rights (if captured they must be treated as prisioners of war) than special forces captured out of uniform. They would technically be spies, and thus have pretty much no legal recourse.

For all America likes to promote multilateralism and the international legal process, it never accepts it’s own responsibility under those same laws. I could care less about some jihadist being waterboarded, but the hypocracy pisses me off.
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November 11, 2010 10:56am
dime

Obama may actually be growing a pair… from debka:

Before taking off for Asia Saturday, Nov. 6, President Barack Obama ordered the Pentagon not just to beef up American and NATO military pressure on Iran but to do so as conspicuously as possible, debkafile’s Washington and military sources report . At a special White House security consultation last week, Obama said it was time to plant America’s military option against the Iranian nuclear threat visibly and tangibly under the noses of Iran’s political and military decision-makers. In the last few days, three aircraft carriers, four nuclear submarines and marine assault units have piled up opposite Iranian shores.
Early Sunday, the influential Senator Lindsey Graham (R. South Carolina), member of the Armed Services and Homeland Defense committees, said: “The US should consider sinking the Iranian navy, destroying its air force and delivering a decisive blow to the Revolutionary Guards.” In an address to the Halifax International Security forum, he declared “They should neuter the regime, destroy its ability to fight back and hope Iranians will take the chance to take back their government.”
Our Washington sources report that Senator Lindsey’s words were coordinated with the White House and Pentagon to underline the administration’s position.
Addressing the same forum, Israel’s Defense Minister Ehud Barak was pessimistic about diplomatic engagement halting Iran’s drive for a nuclear weapon. “Based on experience and looking at the example which they (the Iranians) are using, which is probably the North Korean example, you can easily see … the objective is to defy, deceive and deter the whole world,” he said.
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November 11, 2010 10:57am
Pete George

The apparently deteriorating state of our lakes should be serious concern.

Many lakes in poor state of health

The problem was worst in Canterbury, where many of the 19 lakes that were deteriorating were found. But water quality was worst in low and intensively farmed areas such as Waikato and Manawatu.

Dr Smith: “It is unacceptable that 32 per cent of our monitored lakes have poor water quality and that more lakes are deteriorating in water quality than are improving.”
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November 11, 2010 10:59am
grumpyoldhori

Water boarding works, no it does not, give me thirty seconds and I would have any of you lot confessing to being the great train robbers.

Again it is the hypocrisy of the yanks that rears it’s head, the Geneva convention on small arms etc, the yanks believe because they are yanks that they have the right to use dum dum bullets in their 5.56 carbines.

Yet, they whine abour Iran having nukes, well too fucking bad because they have no way of stopping them.
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November 11, 2010 11:06am
Pete George

Just had a Mustang doing low level fly-bys, that has added a bit of excitement to the morning.
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November 11, 2010 11:10am
dime

hori – no way of stopping them? really? lol

as for that missile the other day. reports are saying it was just a plane.

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/11/10/blogger-solved-california-missile-mystery/
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November 11, 2010 11:12am
Rodders

It is George W’s voice on the audiobook, at least

http://www.observer.com/2010/media/audiobook-excerpt-george-bush-says-what-kanye-west-said
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November 11, 2010 11:12am
kowtow

Not much talk on this blog about Maori opposition to Finlaysons Coastal Giveaway Bill.

On the TV news last night Ngai Tahu head honcho saying many not happy with it! Good, if Maori scupper the Bill then it might save National some face with their traditional base,who I presume would be opposed.

Ngai Tahu, now haven’t they had 2 full and final settlements and would this Bill give them more opportunities to claim more Crown land.When is full and final ever going to be full and final?
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November 11, 2010 11:15am
Rodders

Just double checked, George W reads the abridged audiobook but someone else reads the unabridged version. Does the abridged version have the long words removed?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/prweb/20101110/bs_prweb/prweb4766864
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November 11, 2010 11:18am
stephen

Water boarding works, no it does not, give me thirty seconds and I would have any of you lot confessing to being the great train robbers.

45 seconds and I can get you to confess to giving the order to bomb Pearl Harbour.
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November 11, 2010 11:22am
dime

Rodders is funny!

Hey Rodders, Bush has a BA from Yale and an MBA from Harvard. What you got?

Bush also flew an F-102 fighter.

Seriously, get some new material.

W. will go down in history as one of the better Presidents.
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November 11, 2010 11:24am
Fletch

re: Hurricane Katrina – Popular Mechanics ” spent more than four months interviewing officials, scientists, first responders and victims”, and came up with a special report debunking Katrina myths. LINK

MYTH: “The aftermath of Katrina will go down as one of the worst abandonments of Americans on American soil ever in U.S. history.”–Aaron Broussard, president, Jefferson Parish, La., Meet the Press, NBC, Sept. 4, 2005

REALITY: Bumbling by top disaster-management officials fueled a perception of general inaction, one that was compounded by impassioned news anchors. In fact, the response to Hurricane Katrina was by far the largest–and fastest-rescue effort in U.S. history, with nearly 100,000 emergency personnel arriving on the scene within three days of the storm’s landfall.

Dozens of National Guard and Coast Guard helicopters flew rescue operations that first day–some just 2 hours after Katrina hit the coast. Hoistless Army helicopters improvised rescues, carefully hovering on rooftops to pick up survivors. On the ground, “guardsmen had to chop their way through, moving trees and recreating roadways,” says Jack Harrison of the National Guard. By the end of the week, 50,000 National Guard troops in the Gulf Coast region had saved 17,000 people; 4000 Coast Guard personnel saved more than 33,000.

These units had help from local, state and national responders, including five helicopters from the Navy ship Bataan and choppers from the Air Force and police. The Louisiana Department of Wildlife and Fisheries dispatched 250 agents in boats. The Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), state police and sheriffs’ departments launched rescue flotillas. By Wednesday morning, volunteers and national teams joined the effort, including eight units from California’s Swift Water Rescue. By Sept. 8, the waterborne operation had rescued 20,000.

While the press focused on FEMA’s shortcomings, this broad array of local, state and national responders pulled off an extraordinary success–especially given the huge area devastated by the storm. Computer simulations of a Katrina-strength hurricane had estimated a worst-case-scenario death toll of more than 60,000 people in Louisiana. The actual number was 1077 in that state.
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November 11, 2010 11:25am
Rodders

dime said “W. will go down in history as one of the better Presidents.”

Now, that really made me laugh. Thanks mate 😀
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November 11, 2010 11:29am
OECD rank 22 kiwi

Riots in London.

Time to impose martial law on the BBC.
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November 11, 2010 11:34am
Fletch

Rodders, I believe he will too. Much better than Obama.

‘History will show that George W Bush was right’ – LINK
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November 11, 2010 11:36am
grumpyoldhori

dime now that would be fucking clever of the yanks would it not, strike the Iranian reactor and kill a couple of hundred Russians, I,m sure Vlad would be understanding about that.
Strike the Iranian oil facilities and piss the Chinese off then watch oil tankers stop going through the Hormuz because the risks of missiles is too high, petrol at thirty dollars a litre.
The yanks are going real well in Afghanistan are they not ? and they want to take the Iranians on.
You will be joining up when ?
You seem to have the brains of that wanker of a US senator
http://www.fredoneverything.net/Graham.shtml
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November 11, 2010 11:37am
dime

rodders – I’m sure it will make a US hating, deluded leftie laugh.

Fact is, he protected americas interests. Smashed Iraq, destabalised the entire region (which is good for the US) and fucked over afghanistan.

All for the price of 3000 soldiers. Most of the great leaders would take that deal.
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November 11, 2010 11:37am
James Stephenson

Rodders – I’d wager real cash money on the eventual historical judgement putting GW way ahead of Barry O.
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November 11, 2010 11:38am
dime

Rodders – you didnt address the other part of my post. Are you as qualified as W.?

And yes, i’m sure a deluded lefty, yank hater will find it funny. Fact is he protected Americas interests. Took out the iraqi threat and total fucked the middle east.. again. thats a good thing for the US. Afghanistan was a good thing too. ALl for the cost of 3000 soldiers. Any great leader in history would take that deal.
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November 11, 2010 11:41am
dime

Hori – how bout this.

“Yo Putin, Barrack here. We are gonna fuck over the Iranian nuke plants. Tell your boys to get out or die. cheers bro.”

What are the russians gonna do? hmm?

besides, as my prvious post said. this could be a course of action:

“The US should consider sinking the Iranian navy, destroying its air force and delivering a decisive blow to the Revolutionary Guards.” In an address to the Halifax International Security forum, he declared “They should neuter the regime, destroy its ability to fight back and hope Iranians will take the chance to take back their government.”

It would take the yanks about 8 days to achieve that. sweet.
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November 11, 2010 11:43am
Rodders

Fletch, Andrew Roberts is an apologist for torture http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-05-13/how-torture-helped-Fwin-wwii/
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November 11, 2010 11:44am
grumpyoldhori

Dime, Bush flew a F-102, oh, was that when he was based in Texas protecting Texas from the mighty NVA airforce ?
Can the Iranians be stopped, yep, if the yanks used nukes which they will not do, for the simple reason if you throw nukes about these days other countries will treat the USA like mad dogs with their own nukes.

A ground invasion, where will you get the troops ? a coalition of the willing, the yanks would get a short answer, fuck off.

A bluff by the yanks, the Iranians know how short of troops the yanks are.
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November 11, 2010 11:49am
Pete George

“W. will go down in history as one of the better Presidents.”

That’s not what most polls and rankings suggest.

Rasmussen Reports (2007) 28. George W. Bush (41% favorable, 59% unfavorable)
WSJ (2005) ranked him 19
Others later ranked him 36-39
Quinnipiac – “Which of these eleven presidents we have had since World War II would you consider the worst president — Harry Truman, Dwight Eisenhower, John Kennedy, Lyndon Johnson, Richard Nixon, Gerald Ford, Jimmy Carter, Ronald Reagan, George Bush Senior, Bill Clinton, and George W. Bush?”
1. George W. Bush (34%) – double Noxon at No 2

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_rankings_of_Presidents_of_the_United_States
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November 11, 2010 11:49am
Rodders

Fletch, Andrew Roberts advocates the use of torture to receive confessions http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-05-13/how-torture-helped-win-wwii/
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November 11, 2010 11:51am
grumpyoldhori

Dime, eight days ? so how come the yanks are bogged down in Afghanistan which has no air force or navy ?
When are you joining up ?
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November 11, 2010 11:54am
Fletch

UGH…

This is an actual book on Amazon – ‘The Pedophile’s Guide to Love and Pleasure’ LINK

This is my attempt to make pedophile situations safer for those juveniles that find themselves involved in them, by establishing certian rules for these adults to follow. I hope to achieve this by appealing to the better nature of pedosexuals, with hope that their doing so will result in less hatred and perhaps liter sentences should they ever be caught.

There is a group boycotting Amazon until it is removed…
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November 11, 2010 11:55am
Rodders

Fletch, Andrew Roberts is an unashamed advocate of torture
http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-05-13/how-torture-helped-win-wwii/
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November 11, 2010 11:56am
Rodders

Fletch, Andrew Roberts is a controversial writer, to say the least

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-05-13/how-torture-helped-win-wwii/
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November 11, 2010 11:58am
dime

Hori – They have 3 aircraft carrier groups in the gulf. Did you even read what I posted? twice?

They wont do a ground invasion. They will sink the navy, fuck their airforce and bomb the shit out of their army. Leave them in disarray.

Are you saying Bush didnt actually fly an F102 because he wasnt at war? Did he somehow fake it?

Pete George – nothing like wikipedia for the truth when it comes to politics eh? it takes a good 20 years to really review a president. just like great albums and movies 🙂
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November 11, 2010 11:59am
grumpyoldhori

Better read this Dime.
And yes Fred Reed is a veteran.

*

Let’s Attack Iran!
Children with Matches

November 8, 2010

Oh good. I see that Senator Lindsey Graham wants to attack Iran. The US, he says, should “sink their navy, destroy their air force and deliver a decisive blow to the Revolutionary Guard.”

Senator Graham has the brains of a tapeworm, making him eminently qualified for the senate. Tapeworms, I note, do not have brains. It is characteristic of warlike innocents, to include the Pentagon, to believe that if you destroy navies and air forces, you win wars. This worked well in Vietnam, you will recall, and as soon as we destroy the Taliban’s navy, Afghanistan will be a cakewalk.

Now, I understand that practicality and realism are alien concepts in American politics, to be approached with trepidation, but maybe, just once, we should think before sticking our private parts into a wood-chipper. Just once. I do not propose consistent rationality, forethought, or intelligent behavior. I profoundly respect my country’s traditions.

However, folk wisdom from West Virginia: Before you say, “I can whip any man in the bar!” it is well to scout the bar.

Note that the United States cannot defeat Iran militarily, short of using nuclear weapons. It is easy to start a war. Finishing one is harder. I could punch out Mike Tyson. Things thereafter might not go as well as hoped.

Some will find the thought of American martial incapacity outrageous. Can’t beat Iran? Buncha towel monkeys? Among grrr-bowwow-woof patriots, there exists a heady delusion of American potency, that the US has “the greatest military power the world has ever seen.” Ah. And when did it last win a war? In Afghanistan, for ten years the gloriousest military ever known, the expensivist, and whoosh-bangiest, hasn’t managed to defeat a bunch of pissed-off illiterates with AKs and RPGs.

At this point Lindsey of Persia will doubtless allude to the wonders of air power, of “precision-guided weapons,” of smart bombs that presumably read Kant on the way down. Those pitiable Iranians would have no hope of stopping our mighty bombers. True.

Implicit in this Thomistic fantasy (Clancy, I mean, not Aquinas) is that Iran wouldn’t, couldn’t, wouldn’t dare fight back without a navy, etc. Lindsey had better be very sure that Iran couldn’t block the Strait of Hormuz in retaliation. Enough of the world’s petroleum comes from the Gulf that the price would rise drastically if the Straits were blocked. Some economies would simply stop.

How many supertankers going up in flames would be tolerated before operators of tankers refused to risk it?

Iran recently began serial production of the Nasr 1, an anti-ship cruise missile. Tankers are thin-skinned and highly flammable. The Nasr 1 can be fired from the back of a truck. Trucks by their nature are mobile. They are easy to hide.

The Air Force, to include Naval Air, may be confident that it can destroy all of Iran’s missiles. The Air Force always believes that air power can do anything and everything—make coffee, win at marbles, everything. After all, don’t its airplanes say “Vrooom!” and “Swoosh!”? Don’t cockpits have lots of portentous buttons and spiffy little screens? Unfortunately the Air Force is regularly wrong.

In fact the entire military is regularly wrong about the ease and duration of its adventures. For example, it had no idea that Viet Nam would turn into an endless war ending in defeat (if that makes sense). Iraq notoriously was going to be a walk in the park. That the war on Afghanistan would last ten years with a distinct possibility of defeat…this never occurred to the soldiers.

It is barely conceivable that the Five-Sided Wind Box could do what Field Marshal Graham thinks it could do. The unexpected is always a possibility. But, the stakes being what they would be in Hormuz, hoo-boy….

Another possibility is that Israel will attack Iran, as it has threatened. I would like to think that even Bibi Nut-and-Yahoo has better sense but, it the US can produce gibbering wingnuts, why not Israel? The practical effects of an Israeli attack would be indistinguishable from those of an American attack: America would have to solve the problem. Which it probably couldn’t. Israel can bomb Iran’s nuclear codpieces, but it can’t defeat Iran. And if the Strait were blocked after an Israeli attack, the entire globe would holler, “Israel did it!” which would be true.

The distance from “Israel did it” to “The Jews did it,” though logically great, is emotionally short. People think in collective terms. Remember that after some Saudis dropped the Towers, the alleged war on terror morphed almost instantly into intense hostility for Moslems. It doesn’t make sense, but what has that got to do with anything?

I know a lot of Jews, who are all over the place politically and intellectually. They have in common a complete lack of resemblance to the scheming, hand-rubbing, heh-heh-heh Jews of Neo-nazi imagination. Few sacrifice Christian children (a temptation strongest, I can attest, among Christian parents). But…people think collectively.

Congress doesn’t support Israel because it likes Israel, but from political expediency. If the wind blows the other way, so will Congress. Gasoline at twelve dollars is a lot of wind in a commuting country.

Things worsen for America, yet we really don’t know where the country is going or how it will react. The last domestic catastrophe was the Great Depression, when America was a very different place. How bad can things get, economically, politically, internationally? How does a pampered population incapable of planting a garden respond to genuinely hard times? “It can’t happen here,” one hears. What can’t? I suspect that all sorts of things could happen, given sufficiently hard times.

The United States is today an edgy, unhappy country, sliding toward poverty, increasingly dictatorial, inchoately angry, hostile to blacks, the French, Mexicans, Moslems and, creepingly, the Chinese. (Jews, perhaps to their surprise, don’t make the enemies list.) Americans don’t do cosmopolitian. The federal pressure for diversity exists because otherwise no one would associate with anyone else. The Persian Gulf is one of few places that plausibly might wreck the industrial world. There would have to be someone to blame. And Israel can’t survive without American suppport.

Maybe I’m crazy. But if I were an Israeli, I’d find a nice café on Diesengoff and enjoy a double cappucino, watch the girls, and keep my bombs in my pocket. Let somebody else take the fall.
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November 11, 2010 12:01pm
Pete George

Fletch at 11:55 – sounds repugnant, how did Amazon ever let it onto their list.
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November 11, 2010 12:02pm
grumpyoldhori

Dime, so you are stating the yanks will bomb the Iranian oil facilities ?
Now you may want to put the brain into first gear about that.

Obama would threaten the Russians ? which fat US air force freighter full of troops do you want bought down ?
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November 11, 2010 12:06pm
Rodders

dime, I got my B.Com from Auckland University, thanks for asking
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November 11, 2010 12:08pm
kaya

Got this in an email, normally would go straight in the bin but it was an interesting one so I’m sharing it for anyone that ahs time to read it!

THE SITUATION

In Washington , DC , at a Metro Station, on a cold January morning in 2007, a man with a violin played six Bach pieces for about 45 minutes. During that time, approximately 2,000 people went through the station, most of them on their way to work. After about 3 minutes, a middle-aged man noticed that there was a musician playing. He slowed his pace and stopped for a few seconds, and then he hurried on to meet his schedule.

About 4 minutes later:

The violinist received his first dollar. A woman threw money in the hat and, without stopping, continued to walk.

At 6 minutes:

A young man leaned against the wall to listen to him, then looked at his watch and started to walk again.

At 10 minutes:

A 3-year old boy stopped, but his mother tugged him along hurriedly. The kid stopped to look at the violinist again, but the mother pushed hard and the child continued to walk, turning his head the whole time. This action was repeated by several other children, but every parent – without exception – forced their children to move on quickly.

At 45 minutes:

The musician played continuously. Only 6 people stopped and listened for a short while. About 20 gave money but continued to walk at their normal pace. The man collected a total of $32.

After 1 hour:

He finished playing and silence took over. No one noticed and no one applauded. There was no recognition at all.

No one knew this, but the violinist was Joshua Bell, one of the greatest musicians in the world. He played one of the most intricate pieces ever written, with a violin worth $3.5 million dollars. Two days before, Joshua Bell sold-out a theater in Boston where the seats averaged $200 each to sit and listen to him play the same music.

This is a true story. Joshua Bell, playing incognito in the D.C. Metro Station, was organized by the Washington Post as part of a social experiment about perception, taste and people’s priorities.

This experiment raised several questions:

*In a common-place environment, at an inappropriate hour, do we perceive beauty?

*If so, do we stop to appreciate it?

*Do we recognize talent in an unexpected context?

One possible conclusion reached from this experiment could be this:

If we do not have a moment to stop and listen to one of the best musicians in the world, playing some of the finest music ever written, with one of the most beautiful instruments ever made . . .

How many other things are we missing as we rush through life?
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November 11, 2010 12:21pm
adze

Funny you should post that kaya. On Monday I had the day off and went through the Wellington train station to the post office to pick up a package. There were three teenage girls playing Mozart on violins. Their performance was absolutely stunning – I thought it was a recording as I walked through the tunnel causeway. I dropped some money into their case and I wasn’t alone. They had time for embarrassed giggles as the money poured in.
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November 11, 2010 12:33pm
Rodders

Good post kaya. There is a video too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnOPu0_YWhw
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November 11, 2010 12:42pm
DJP6-25

[Tim_G Oz 8:53] I didn’t forget. My six great-uncles, and both grandfathers were in it. They were at Passchendaele. One uncle got gassed in the Kaiserlacht.

Here in Korea it’s a holiday called Peppero, which revolves around exchanging candy and chocolate with friends.

cheers

David Prosser
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November 11, 2010 12:55pm
DJP6-25

[Peter George 11:10 am] We get the same with F-16s at 500 ft here in Korea.

cheers

David Prosser
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November 11, 2010 1:01pm
Rodders

Another publicity stunt bites the dust

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/4334174/State-house-takeover-activists-arrested
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November 11, 2010 1:05pm
dime

Rodders – so, you arent as qualified as W.

But he’s the idiot..

Hori – sorry dude, dont care what Fred Reed has to say. According to wikpedia, he writes columns attacking bush, jews and the pursuit of making money. yea umm pass.
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November 11, 2010 1:07pm
Rodders

What’s your qualification then, dime?

btw I never said George W. Bush was an idiot. He just isn’t a great off the cuff speaker (neither is Obama).
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November 11, 2010 1:09pm
RightNow

“A Leamington teen has appeared in court charged with trying to have sex with a cow.”
http://www.stuff.co.nz/waikato-times/news/4333455/Teen-in-dock-for-cow-sex-charge

He should migrate to Australia, somewhere in ACT where this is legal.
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November 11, 2010 1:10pm
adze

Hugh Heifer?
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November 11, 2010 1:19pm
Rodders

😀
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November 11, 2010 1:20pm
dime

Rodders – you implied W. couldnt pronounce big words. Reading his book is not off the cuff.

And I have a BBS from Massey.

W. is far more qualified than me. I’m also not arrogant enough to think I could be the President for 8 years..

I just get tired of the “*insert right wing name here* is an idiot line.”

W. isnt an academic and thank god for that. Academics have done enough to fuck the world. W. is a smart guy. I’ve watched a few interviews with him over the last week. He’s impressed me every time.
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November 11, 2010 1:25pm
david

David Prosser,
Just for curiosity sake,
Which part of ROK (presumably not DPRK!) are you in?
Have the Autumn colours been brilliant this year?
Does ANZSOC still exist?
Was the Melbourne Cup event run this year at the Westin Chosun in Seoul?
Is Itaewon still ,the den of iniquity that it was in the ’90’s?
Are there enough Kiwis yet to field a national team in the expat cricket comp?
cheers
When you are there you can’t wait to leave, when you leave, you dream of going back.
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November 11, 2010 1:37pm
John Gibson

Does anyone on here use the pseudonyms “LEFTARD” or “PINKO” or ” COMMIE FUCKWIT” ?

Might be amusing to trial them.
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November 11, 2010 1:46pm
dime

I registered dime4justice :p
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November 11, 2010 1:55pm
big bruv

Dime

Have you also noticed that W can speak without a Teleprompter unlike the fool who currently lives in the White house.
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November 11, 2010 1:59pm
Lance

Oh come on guys..
W was played like a glove puppet by people either wiser, more devious, less innocent (whatever is most PC for GWB fans).
His old man would NEVER have been so gullible.

As for arguing water boarding torture is o.k. if the end justifies the means…. shit do you read history? It ends badly.
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November 11, 2010 2:25pm
dime

Lance – waterboarding saved lives. Would you feel the same if W. hadnt have let it happen and your family was wiped out?
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November 11, 2010 2:37pm
Pete George

Maybe if they had waterboarded Rumsfeld until he admitted invading Iraq would be a costly quagmire it would have saved more US lives than were lost in 9-11. And saved a trillion dollars – that made quite a difference to the horrible financial mess GW left the US in. But he’s the best mountain biking Pres ever, gotta give him that.
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November 11, 2010 2:42pm
dime

Pete – yea and the Saddam could have continued his reign of terror. Maybe he would have died by now and the peaceful uday hussein would be in charge. Iraq could have continued to fuck with the UN. sponsored more terror attacks. Instead of terrorists going to iraq to fight marines, they could have gone to the US and attacked some more.

The Iraqi muslims wouldnt be fighting each other (Dime loves an islamic civil war). Saddam could have got friendly with the nutbar in iran. Maybe gone done a path similar to the EU. Become a super power of sorts. That would be great for the US.

Bush made sure there were no more terror attacks in the US under his watch. He sent the middle east back 50 years. It was great for the US. Not so great for yank hating, small minded, snide kiwis.

Didnt congress condem Iraq and its WOMD’s when Clinton was President? Before Bush?
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November 11, 2010 3:27pm
Lance

@dime
Conversely if most nations around the world start using torture as a matter of recourse to solving ANY crime to save lives then are seriously saying we will live in a better world.
If we nuked all the rouge states would the world be better off?
Hell why not everyone that looks different to us, or has a different culture.

Waterboarding is well down the down the paved road to hell. You ain’t just stepped over the line, its journeyed into a place where right and wrong are indistinguishable.

The problem is one day it might be you or your family that is innocently or otherwise on the wrong side a state that has become a monster and where the ends justifies the means. But it’s o.k… we tortured everyone we found in that area and we found the perpetrator. Thank you good citizens for your understanding.
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November 11, 2010 3:32pm
Repton

Pete – yea and the Saddam could have continued his reign of terror. Maybe he would have died by now and the peaceful uday hussein would be in charge.

Saddam was clearly no benevolent dictator. But have things in Iraq really improved since the Americans invaded?

Iraq could have continued to fuck with the UN. sponsored more terror attacks. Instead of terrorists going to iraq to fight marines, they could have gone to the US and attacked some more.

Which terrorist attacks did Saddam sponsor?

The Iraqi muslims wouldnt be fighting each other (Dime loves an islamic civil war). Saddam could have got friendly with the nutbar in iran.

Yeah, because Saddam Hussein was such good mates with Iran.

Of course, after the American invasion, the Iraqi Shiite majority will probably dominate Iraqi politics. I wonder which neighbouring country they would be most friendly with?

Maybe gone done a path similar to the EU. Become a super power of sorts. That would be great for the US.

You seriously think Iraq could have achieved peace in the Middle East?

He sent the middle east back 50 years.

I am baffled that you think this is a good thing.
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November 11, 2010 4:27pm
dime

repton – its a fact saddam was sponsoring terrorism and training shit bags.

I believe life in Iraq is improving all the time, not that i actually give a shit. my reference to his reign of terror was in the region. he a piece of shit. i only like it when the US mess with people 🙂

The Iran-Iraq war was in the 80’s dude. I believe the arabs were on the verge of realising how they could get together to become a union of sorts.. EU type thing. Im not saying peace. Im saying, work towards a common goal. Maybe have a new joint currency etc etc

Middle east being sent back 50 years is a good thing for the US.
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November 11, 2010 4:55pm
Pete George

Middle east being sent back 50 years is a good thing for the US.

Not when it sends the US economy back by a trillion or so. And counting.
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November 11, 2010 5:00pm
kaya

I don’t disagree that Saddam was a fuck up but you have to ask why did the Americans help put him in there in the first place?
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November 11, 2010 5:41pm
Tauhei Notts

Trout at 9.34 a.m.
The most perceptive contribution to this blog all day.
Good on ya, mate!
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November 11, 2010 8:14pm
Sofia

” “The whole process around National Standards has been a shambles. This latest admission by the Minister that she is unaware of such an important document on the implementation of the standards going out to all schools is just another example of her lack of knowledge and attention to detail on the issue of National standards. Her responsibility as Minister of Education is to build and maintain the best quality learning environment for young New Zealanders. It probably appears to many in the education sector that Mrs Tolley’s real priority is to implement a 2008 National Party election policy before going to next year’s election, rather than the best learning opportunities for young Kiwis.””
– Chris Carter, ‘Tolley Pleads Ignorance’ posted October 20, 2010, http://carter.org.nz/

If National Standards are viewed as a major accomplishment for National for next year’s election PR, it then becomes blindingly obvious why national wishes to push them through regardless of any reservations, and why Labour would attempt behind the scenes to manipulate their demise.
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November 11, 2010 8:29pm
dime

Kaya – because he kept the muslims in check. killed a few iranians. made sense.

pete george – can you really put a price on being the worlds super power? a guaranteed oil supply.. not because they stole oil, but put themselves in a position ot make sure they couldnt be cut off.
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November 11, 2010 9:00pm
pdm

Breaking News.

Labour have an American `Bag Man’. A person by the name of John Chapman.

Have a look at Carmel Sepulini’s (sp) post over at Red Alert – sorry I cannot link.
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November 11, 2010 9:46pm
Rex Widerstrom

Talking of bag men. Owen Glenn pops up and, in the midset of talking about sex slavery, says:

He hasn’t ruled out more political involvement.

“I never said I would get into politics, but I am not saying I am.”

Still playing coy, I see. And for the same reason as before, I bet. Explains how and why Winston is traipising the length and breadth of the country and getting in the media again.

While you’re shelling out to stop Indians becoming slaves, Mr Glenn, perhaps you could see your way clear to covering your mate’s debt to us wage slaves. $158,000 I think it was. As it seems he will continue to welsh on it… and the media will let him.
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November 11, 2010 10:36pm

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