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October 24, 2010 8:01am by David Farrar

General Debate 24 Octover 2010

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Yvette

David Bain –
‘ “I dread it that when I’m getting on to 70-odd, as Arthur is, they will still be raising the issue. It’s unfair and something I would hate to have to live with for the rest of my life,” he said.’

Simple. Just don’t make public statements to yet again draw attention to yourself.

‘ Bain campaigner Joe Karam has called for the Crewe inquiry to be independent of police for the sake of transparency, and has even offered to play a role.’

The first point may be valid – an independent inquiry rather than a police investigation of a matter where it is already clear that police were at fault – but not by Joe Karam, who’s bias is also now questionable.
Has Karam become addicted to his being a ‘crusader’?
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October 24, 2010 8:09am
Yvette

BTW, first
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October 24, 2010 8:09am
Say Goodbye to Hollywood

Some of us are still sleeping to be first.
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October 24, 2010 8:16am
reid

Was just reading an interesting article on Deripaska, one of the Russian oligarchs.

If you’re interested, there’s a good book in the Wgtn library on the oligarchs in London.
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October 24, 2010 8:20am
Rodders

Comparing Simon Whipp to Satan is insulting to Devil worshippers

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/4267919/The-Hobbits-whipping-boy-talks
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October 24, 2010 8:44am
Nookin

Karam as part of an independent inquiry — Mr Objectivity himself? I don’t think so. We need someone from overseas — someone not tainted with the 2 degrees of separation that pervades NZ
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October 24, 2010 8:51am
reid

“The-Hobbits-whipping-boy-talks”

The victimhood is beginning and guess who by? Why the SST of course. What a surprise.

Any minute now we’ll hear that Simon is only guilty of trying to help others.

He’s been getting advice from Chris via NY HQ.
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October 24, 2010 8:53am
reid

“We need someone from overseas”

I agree Nookin, and for the Thomas enquiry as well.
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October 24, 2010 8:57am
Grant Michael McKenna

I thought that Octover was a reference to the Black Caps.
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October 24, 2010 9:00am
Nookin

Grant: No — you are confused with “Rollover”
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October 24, 2010 9:01am
starboard

..I see bradford hasnt got any better lookin..still got a face like a twisted gumboot…
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October 24, 2010 9:03am
bhudson

The SST article/interview with Whipp:

“”We have given an unconditional guarantee there will be no industrial issue with the actors on this movie…I don’t know what else we can do,” Whipp said from Auckland before boarding his flight back to Sydney on Friday. ”

What else? Simple. Don’t institute a global boycott on working on the film if all you want is a meeting (Whipp’s claim).

He makes it very clear that the action was not specifically about The Hobbit, but an attempt to influence terms and condition across the NZ industry and all productions – film & TV it would seem. He notes that producers of TV shows (such a Outrageous Fortune) had told them to bog off already. Looks like an admission that this was all an attempt to hold a large production to ransom for demands that were not related to it.

He was more effective when he kept his mouth shut – as on the walk from Matterhorn to Manners Mall
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October 24, 2010 9:08am
pdm

Nookin (230) – you mean the Privy Council don’t you?

It is not available to us now because Clark, Wilson and co got rid of it without any mandate to do so.
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October 24, 2010 9:11am
Nookin

The Royal commission on the Crewe murders was chaired by an independent judge and we got our first sight of any objectivity on the case in that inquiry. I have difficulty accepting that any independent police review will be truly independent. Mixed views on PC. Going for a bike ride and will think about it. If the bloody magpies will let me.
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October 24, 2010 9:16am
reid

“…you mean the Privy Council don’t you.”

Don’t know what Nookin meant but I meant a couple of senior retired judges from Aus or the UK – one for each inquiry.
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October 24, 2010 9:17am
reid

What do people think about the latest Wikileaks?

Is this something that should have seen sunlight, or not?
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October 24, 2010 9:30am
big bruv

Please can we seem more of Helen Kelly on our TV screens, every time she appears on TV she drives another nail into the coffin of the union movement.

This morning on Q&A she was exposed (again) as a liar, she was made a complete fool of herself and was totally out of her depth, even Comrade Bradford (man am I happy that I no longer have to pay her any of my hard earned money) struggled to support her.
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October 24, 2010 9:47am
big bruv

reid

I could not care less, I do not trust anything that comes from Wikileaks as I do not trust its founder who I believe is still facing charges of rape.

Even if it is true I still do not give a shit, these things happen in a time of war.
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October 24, 2010 9:50am
Rodders

A really unfortunate headline from this article

http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/film/4268360/Why-would-I-want-to-root-my-industry
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October 24, 2010 9:52am
davidp

BB>Please can we seem more of Helen Kelly on our TV screens, every time she appears on TV she drives another nail into the coffin of the union movement.

Phil Goff is still missing. Maybe he is off on some sort of Carter-style stress leave?

Actors Equity seems to have established itself as the industrial wing of the Green Party. We’ve all seen how Auckland actresses will turn out to support any Green initiative and in return Keith Locke has been the only politician in the country actually supporting them as they try and cut the carbon emissions of NZ’s film industry by 40 percent. And it isn’t hard to see similarities between the two organisations… Neither are even slightly coherent, they both have problems with honesty, and they’re both run by an Australian. Equity’s campaign against the Hobbit is how the whole country would be run if the Greens were in charge.
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October 24, 2010 10:02am
Pauleastbay

What or who has all of a sudden driven Rocelle Crewe to want an enquiry?

It may not be a bad thing (although I don’t agree )but it would be nice to know whose idea this is to push it before we all get up in arms and rush into this.

Someone somewhere will be wanting to make a quid out of it.

Why now?
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October 24, 2010 10:38am
Pauleastbay

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/4267915/David-Bain-joins-call-for-Crewe-case-justice

If there was ever anyone who should STFU it would have to be David Bain
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October 24, 2010 10:44am
reid

“Even if it is true I still do not give a shit, these things happen in a time of war.”

To me bb the point is not whether or not it’s true because I already strongly suspected this was happening and have since the time it actually was happening.

To me the point is whether or not it was a good idea to disclose it. What has it proved? Nothing to anyone, as far as I can make out. If anyone’s in the least surprised about this, then they live in a cocoon of biblical proportions. Therefore in my view this achieves nothing in terms of altering public perception whether or not that’s in a positive or negative way.

What it does do is give more ammunition to the fanatics. They already knew this anyway so it doesn’t change anything there, but it gives them more reasons to recruit the people they do by doing more of this and this is obvious. So there is a large negative.

Additional to that are signs the US is hunkering down in Afghanistan regardless of Obama’s announced date, so if they are there for awhile and it’s hard to see how they can’t be, then this release is even worse for them.

I’m surprised you base a conclusion as to the veracity or otherwise of the material on the personality of its founder though. Not your usual standard bb 🙂
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October 24, 2010 10:54am
reid

“Actors Equity seems to have established itself as the industrial wing of the Green Party.”

No the industrial wing of the Green party are the guitar makers and the tie-dyers, david. The maypole makers used to do well also but they went the way of the buggy whip when everyone started laughing at them. The last time they had a gay dancing competition (as they used to call them) was in 1963.
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October 24, 2010 10:58am
Nick Kearney

What really puzzles me is how could a union that is disestablished, and is “maintained” in little ‘ole NZ with a “membership” of a few hundred, believe they could win a fight against Warner Bros?

This isn’t taking a knife to a gun fight, it’s taking a pop gun to an aerial bombing sortie!
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October 24, 2010 11:13am
Scumsucker

Incredibly Mamamat Mamamacarten is winging that the workers have too much food.
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October 24, 2010 11:19am
Fletch

I think that wikileaks guy should be thrown in jail. It’s war FFS. I bet if they had documentation for everything that the Allies did in WWII or some other wars that they’d be just as bad. It’s just that now, with our technology, everything is documented so finely. Yes there are conventions for war and they should be followed, but will they ever really be?

That Wiki leaks guy would be accused of treason if he were American, and even so, has committed treason against the West. Who does he aid in the long run? He demoralizes America and her soldiers and helps the enemy.
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October 24, 2010 11:22am
Inventory2

Matt McCarten seems reluctant to acknowledge the existence of the CTU and Helen Kelly in his weekly rant today. Perhaps even HE is embarrassed

http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2010/10/what-about-ctu-matt.html
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October 24, 2010 11:23am
reid

“I bet if they had documentation for everything that the Allies did in WWII or some other wars that they’d be just as bad.”

No what’s bad about it is that it was allowed to happen in the first place.

Some people think even discussing this is unpatriotic and anti-American. Those people are completely mental.

Western civilisation is built on civilised conduct. The extent to which war is civilised is the extent to which both sides play by the Geneva Convention. Clearly, neither side adopted this and consequently its very messy and has always been very nasty.

This is the fault of the architects, who include Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz. The numbers of incidents show a clumsy disregard for the psychology of warfare let alone the psychology of warfare in an unstably divided Muslim state which is what Iraq is.

It’s not warfare-rocket-science to understand that if you act or are seen to act brutally in a hostile population you will antagonise it. Widespread incidents over long periods of time are something to be avoided at all costs. This is simple.

Add the fact of Muslim temperament and this becomes doubly-important and did this happen?

No, it didn’t did it. For years, quite the opposite, as Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz et al threw fuel on. Whatever their motivations were, I don’t know but fact is, this is precisely what happened over there.

What they did is exactly what Churchill did in Dresden. It wasn’t necessary and it was as bad as the Soviets when they stood down outside Warsaw while the Germans dealt to the Warsaw Ghetto uprising. Even in war, actions like that are just plain wrong.
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October 24, 2010 11:31am
Fletch

I see that London has it’s own little Islamic Republic now – an Islamist that finagled his way into becoming mayor of a borough there and now has 1 billion pounds a year at his disposal. What is going to happen next?

Outside the Wellington Way polling station in Tower Hamlets yesterday, as at many other polling stations in the borough, people had to run a gauntlet of Lutfur Rahman supporters to reach the ballot box. As one Bengali woman voter went past them, we heard one of the Rahman army scolding her for her “immodest dress.”
That incident is perhaps a tiny taste of the future for Britain’s poorest borough now it has elected Mr Rahman as its first executive mayor, with almost total power over its £1 billion budget. At the count last night, one very senior figure in the Tower Hamlets Labour Party said: “It really is Britain’s Islamic republic now.”

For the last eight months – without complaint or challenge from Mr Rahman – this blog and newspaper have laid out his close links with a group of powerful local businessmen and with a Muslim supremacist body, the Islamic Forum of Europe (IFE) – which believes, in its own words, in transforming the “very infrastructure of society, its institutions, its culture, its political order and its creed… from ignorance to Islam.” Mr Rahman has refused to deny these claims.

We have told how the borough’s change from a conventional council leader to a mayoral system came about as a result of a campaign led and financed by these two groups – and how the IFE, in its words, wanted to “get one of our brothers” into the position.

We have described in detail, again without complaint or challenge by Mr Rahman, his deeply problematic two years as council leader until he was removed from that post six months ago, partly as a result of our investigations. After he secured the leadership with the help of the IFE, millions of pounds were channelled to front organisations of the IFE, a man with close links to the IFE was appointed as assistant chief executive of the council despite being unqualified for the position and the secular, white chief executive was forced out. Various efforts were made to “Islamicise” the borough. Extremist literature was stocked in Tower Hamlets’ public libraries.

We have described, once more without complaint or challenge from Mr Rahman, how he signed up entire families of sham “paper” Labour members to win the party’s mayoral nomination – acts which caused him to be sacked as the Labour candidate by the party’s National Executive Committee.

Now, however, Mr Rahman has won as an independent – getting more than double the number of votes of the Labour candidate imposed in his place, Helal Abbas. As mayor, he will have far more power than he had as a council leader. And unlike a council leader, no-one can sack him, except the voters in four years’ time….

LINK
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October 24, 2010 11:35am
RossM

If David Bain wants to see justice, perhaps he could walk the talk and turn himslef in to serve the rest of his sentence.
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October 24, 2010 11:53am
wikiriwhis business

Anyone seen this. Documented evidence US forces killed Iraq citizens indiscriminately.

The US MSM have a over bearing responsibility to air this ahead of any official objections.

http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=5769
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October 24, 2010 12:12pm
RKBee

Inventory2 (5,320) Says:

October 24th, 2010 at 11:23 am
Matt McCarten seems reluctant to acknowledge the existence of the CTU and Helen Kelly in his weekly rant today. Perhaps even HE is embarrassed.

And now wonder.. the CTU and Helen Kelly has destroyed all the hard work in building public opinion on unions in one go.. Union buddy and shining light Andrew Little is now going to be up against it.. both for the Labour Leadership and campaigning for the New Plymouth seat next year.. Andrew Little would be wise to resign from all union involvement immediately… if he is to have any credibility.
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October 24, 2010 12:26pm
reid

Have a look at the photoshop of Key blended with Muldoon on RedAlert.
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October 24, 2010 12:32pm
Yvette

“Key blended with Muldoon on RedAlert”

Why are most of the people in the dole queue grossly deformed and three of them Afro-Americans?
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October 24, 2010 12:40pm
reid

“Why are most of the people in the dole queue grossly deformed and three of them Afro-Americans?”

They’re the Liarbore Caucus Yvette.
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October 24, 2010 12:46pm
Rodders

The people in the queue look like something out of the film “The Ring.” Have they watched that video too?
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October 24, 2010 12:46pm
Fletch

Today a worker helping set up the stage for an appearance of Obama in Los Angeles has been fired because his sweatshirt said “George H.W Bush”. They asked him to either take it off or turn it inside out, but he wouldn’t, because it’s the name of the ship his son is serving on in the Navy.

Typical. Perhaps they don’t want people to remember how much better America was under Bush.
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October 24, 2010 12:53pm
reid

“…how much better America was under Bush.”

One declared global war on terrorism to replace the tired old ‘war on drugs’ that goes nowhere despite the technology available to the good guys.

Two intractable on-going conflicts that have cost over a trillion so far.

Widely perceived as unjust and brutal amongst the populations of those countries who been subject to the war on terror.

Stood by and did nothing as if it wasn’t even noticed as the CDO bubble just grew and grew.

Yes, they were “good” times.
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October 24, 2010 1:00pm
kowtow

Dresden and the Soviet refusal to help at Warsaw cannot be compared nor ever should Churchill and Stalin.

Dresden was the use of Allied airpower to assist the Soviet push against the Germans in the east ,an assistance that was continuously being called for by Stalin who was always reminding the Western Allies that it was the Soviets doing most of the fighting! Churchill was well aware of that .
There was still also the belief that allied air power and strategic bombing could help shorten the war.Dresden was an important German communications centre in the east.

The Soviet stand outside Warsaw was simply a cynical ploy to allow the Polish opposition to be wiped out prior to the criminal Soviet occupation of Poland.

Rather than blame the Americans for the mess in the Middle East the blame should be placed with the dictators who run those countries and the UN that allows those countries membership in flagrant violation of all its own principles.
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October 24, 2010 1:09pm
Redbaiter

“Yes, they were “good” times.”

Yeah, so you’re for Obama then Reid. The man who hates America as much as you do.
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October 24, 2010 1:16pm
reid

No I’m for neither RB, I thought you knew that already.
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October 24, 2010 1:24pm
eszett

That Wiki leaks guy would be accused of treason if he were American, and even so, has committed treason against the West. Who does he aid in the long run? He demoralizes America and her soldiers and helps the enemy.

So the truth demoralises, does it?
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October 24, 2010 1:26pm
Redbaiter

How does that work logically? You challenged Fletch for his comparing Bush to Obama. If you disagree, you have to be for Obama.
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October 24, 2010 1:26pm
RKBee

The Americans should have never stayed around to eat their launch in the middle east.. it was a mistake for them to stay.. they made their point in the first few weeks.. now their point is lost.
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October 24, 2010 1:26pm
reid

“Dresden was an important German communications centre in the east.”

No it had no strategic value whatsoever, heaps of historical value, was crammed with refugees fleeing the Russians, and built almost entirely out of wood.

If you care to argue the strategic value of “an important German comms centre” in that context, then go ahead.
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October 24, 2010 1:26pm
Fletch

reid, you need to read up on everything Obama has done since he has been in office – he knows absolutely nothing – very naiive. He thinks he can make gestures and nice speeches to Islamic countries and they will eventually come around to his way of thinking, but all he is doing is showing America’s weakness. Iran isn’t like America – they don’t fall for his nice rhetoric. Meanwhile Iran is developing nuclear weapons and Obama isn’t doing a damn thing to stop it. He could have supported the Iranian protesters looking for democracy after the last sham of an election in Iran but he didn’t.

He is cosying up to America’s enemies and alienating traditional allies.

From what I’ve been reading of his history, I have not one ounce of respect for the man. None. At least Bush had the balls to do what he thought was right; Obama has none.
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October 24, 2010 1:27pm
Redbaiter

“So the truth demoralises, does it?”

Hhahaha.. give me a fucking break. You, a delusional extreme left loon, wouldn’t know truth if it was chewing your arse off.
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October 24, 2010 1:27pm
reid

“How does that work logically? You challenged Fletch for his comparing Bush to Obama. If you disagree, you have to be for Obama.”

Why?

I don’t analyse politics according to any manifesto RB. None. It helps, if you want to understand reality.

“reid, you need to read up on everything Obama has done since he has been in office”

Why, Fletch?

“Meanwhile Iran is developing nuclear weapons”

How do YOU know?
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October 24, 2010 1:28pm
Redbaiter

“Why?”

What are you? A fucking child??

Fletch said Bush was a better POTUSA than Obama and you expressed disdain for that POV. You can’t have it both ways. Keep that up and you can call yourself Pete George MK II.
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October 24, 2010 1:34pm
reid

“You can’t have it both ways.”

Well I don’t know what you mean RB, for I do have it both ways. I don’t like either of them. The last President I liked for their achievements was Reagan then Eisenhower then Roosevelt. Johnson was pretty good but for the war.

The last three however have been particularly execrable in terms of what they did and I haven’t yet decided about Obama. As well as having it both ways on this, I can also ride a unicycle and balance a pole and spinning plate on my nose whilst juggling whirling chainsaws.
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October 24, 2010 1:40pm
eszett

# Redbaiter (12,266) Says:
October 24th, 2010 at 1:27 pm

“So the truth demoralises, does it?”

Hhahaha.. give me a fucking break. You, a delusional extreme left loon, wouldn’t know truth if it was chewing your arse off.

Well, it seems to be chewing away at your arse, otherwise you wouldn’t be so upset. Take a break if you need one.
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October 24, 2010 1:43pm
Fletch

Oh, comeon reid, of course they are.

Diplomat Marc Ginsberg said –

On October 25th, inspectors for the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) were granted access to the secret and recently outed nuclear facility under construction in a secluded mountain inside an Iranian Revolutionary Guard base near the holy city of Qum.

We now have definitive confirmation from IAEA and European diplomats that the nuclear installation was too small for peaceful nuclear enrichment, but large enough to hold enough centrifuges to convert low grade enriched uranium into enough weapons-grade uranium needed to make nuclear warheads.

In other words, the Qum nuclear facility appears to be the smoking gun in Iran’s secret nuclear weapons construction program. If the neutral IAEA has come to that conclusion, I can’t wait to hear from those who would love to spin it as nothing more than an innocent doughnut factory.

So much for the value of the once vaunted November 2007 U.S. intelligence agencies’ National Intelligence Estimate (NIE) that proffered Iran was not engaged in any weapons-oriented uranium enrichment enterprise. Even before his inspectors finished their inspection of Qum, IAEA chief Mohamad ElBaradei directly accused Iran of violating its international legal obligations by failing to disclose the Qum facility to the IAEA.

And in Nov 2009

The UN’s nuclear watchdog has asked Iran to explain evidence suggesting that Iranian scientists have experimented with an advanced nuclear warhead design, the Guardian has learned.

The very existence of the technology, known as a “two-point implosion” device, is officially secret in both the US and Britain, but according to previously unpublished documentation in a dossier compiled by the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), Iranian scientists may have tested high-explosive components of the design. The development was today described by nuclear experts as “breathtaking” and has added urgency to the effort to find a diplomatic solution to the Iranian nuclear crisis.

The sophisticated technology, once mastered, allows for the production of smaller and simpler warheads than older models. It reduces the diameter of a warhead and makes it easier to put a nuclear warhead on a missile.

Documentation referring to experiments testing a two-point detonation design are part of the evidence of nuclear weaponisation gathered by the IAEA and presented to Iran for its response.

The dossier, titled “Possible Military Dimensions of Iran’s Nuclear Program”, is drawn in part from reports submitted to it by western intelligence agencies.

The agency has in the past treated such reports with scepticism, particularly after the Iraq war. But its director general, Mohamed ElBaradei, has said the evidence of Iranian weaponisation “appears to have been derived from multiple sources over different periods of time, appears to be generally consistent, and is sufficiently comprehensive and detailed that it needs to be addressed by Iran”.

MORE

And what did Obama do? Put the pressure on? Sanctions? No, he asked for an ‘explanation” from them. AFter the US and UN did nothing the mullahs gave the green light to building another ten uranium enrichment plants.
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October 24, 2010 1:45pm
Redbaiter

“I don’t like either of them.”

Not the issue. Fletch’s point was that Bush was a better President than Obama. Agree or not? You initially said no. So what is it now? Bush or Obama?
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October 24, 2010 1:52pm
reid

“Diplomat Marc Ginsberg said”

So what, Fletch?

Even if they’re true and I don’t know and I don’t care but lets say they are, so what? You can’t do anything without fissile material, can you.

Do you seriously think that if the West had credible evidence of that, that it wouldn’t be in the MSM? What possible motivation would any of the intelligence and military agencies throughout the west have, that would prevent that kind of information being made public?

If you’re interested in the latest significant development and you probably aren’t since you appear to live inside some Fletch-specific-design-construct, it’s that Russia is showing signs of backing away from it’s waste-disposal deal. This means if it happens, the west has gotten to Russia which in turn means, Iran’s down to one instead of the previous two high-level supporters – the other being China.

This is a most interesting grand game.
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October 24, 2010 1:52pm
Luc Hansen

Iran is fully entitled to develop its nuclear programme to threshold capacity, so it’s not doing anything particularly egregiously wrong – a bit of fine print and justifiable spy paranoia notwithstanding.

It’s promised to not develop nuclear weapons, and this should be respected as it is with other countries.
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October 24, 2010 1:54pm
kowtow

A few facts on Dresden,useful to read as the far left and neo Nazis keep pulling it out to attack the west with.

http://www.airforcehistory.hq.af.mil/PopTopics/dresden.htm
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October 24, 2010 1:59pm
reid

“Fletch’s point was that Bush was a better President than Obama. Agree or not?”

Don’t know because I haven’t yet made up my mind about Obama. Currently, I don’t like Obama because despite stacking the WH with more Wall-streeters than any Administration in history, he has done nothing, zero for the economy. His FP sucks and he has no initiatives that are going to change either thing. But I don’t make up my mind finally until they leave office. But that’s my instinct.

Re: Obama vs Bush though, I’d just like to say that if Obama exits without losing quite so much blood and treasure as Bush 43 did, then I’ll probably go for Obama. Fingers crossed.
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October 24, 2010 1:59pm
Radman

I’d believe Ahmedinejad over Helen Kelly that’s for sure.

Here’s one for the lynch-mobs:

Tony Veitch was sent home from Radio Sport this week after becoming involved in what is understood to have been a heated argument with a female staff member – just one week after it was announced he would be rehired for his old job.

Just. Leave. Him. Alone.

He has been punished.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10682716
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October 24, 2010 2:00pm
Scumsucker

‘It’s promised to not develop nuclear weapons, and this should be respected as it is with other countries.’

IDIOT
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October 24, 2010 2:04pm
Redbaiter

“Don’t know because I haven’t yet made up my mind about Obama. ”

For fuck’s sake. What are you waiting for? A sign from God?

“then I’ll probably go for Obama.”

OK- got that. Do me a favour and don’t ever fucking well pose on here as any kind of right winger ever again.
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October 24, 2010 2:04pm
wikiriwhis business

Reagan was simply a CIA tool to over take Sth America.

The CIA flourished under Reagan who was simply an extension to the Bush obliarchy.

You need to listen to this brilliant man master criminal J Edgar Hoover called America’s no 1 enemy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXaG_vwoWT4&feature=related
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October 24, 2010 2:06pm
Redbaiter

” Reagan was simply a CIA tool to over take Sth America. ”

Hhahahahah FFS, that’s it. I’m outa here for today. Have a good Sunday loons.
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October 24, 2010 2:08pm
bhudson

“It’s promised to not develop nuclear weapons, and this should be respected as it is with other countries.”

It would seem that Luc favours another Munich Peace Treaty. The nice man won’t develop nuclear weapons if he says he won’t. Just like that other nice man who promised not to take any more lebensraum.

Nice outcome if Luc gets his way. Not so good for his friends if the winds blow from the north east
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October 24, 2010 2:15pm
Akaroa

Hey! Reid at 1.26.

You said in respect of the destruction of Dresden: “No it had no strategic value whatsoever, heaps of historical value, was crammed with refugees fleeing the Russians, and built almost entirely out of wood”.

I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you were being heavily ironic in making that comment.

Well? Weren’t you?

If you weren’t – then read some history boy!
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October 24, 2010 2:16pm
wat dabney

More is emerging all the time about the Left’s triumphs of the 20th Century in China:

“In pursuit of a utopian paradise everything was collectivised…A catastrophe of gargantuan proportions ensued…What comes out of this massive and detailed dossier is a tale of horror in which Chairman Mao emerges as one of the greatest mass murderers in human history, responsible for the premature deaths of at least 45 million people between 1958 and 1962. It is not merely the extent of the catastrophe that dwarfs earlier estimates, but also the manner in which many people died: between two and three million victims were tortured to death or summarily killed, often for the slightest infraction. When a boy stole a handful of grain in a Hunan village, local boss Xiong Dechang forced his father to bury him alive. The father died of grief a few days later. The case of Wang Ziyou was reported to the central leadership: one of his ears was chopped off, his legs were tied with iron wire, a ten-kilo stone was dropped on his back and then he was branded with a sizzling tool – as punishment for digging up a potato. The discriminate killing of slackers, weaklings, or otherwise unproductive elements increased the overall food supply for those who contributed to the regime through their labour. As report after report shows, food was used as a weapon.
http://www.historytoday.com/frank-dik%C3%B6tter/chinese-history-great-leap-backward

Communist China
The Soviet Union
Nazi Germany
The Khmer Rouge
:

The role call of the Leftist apocalypse appears to be endless…

Take a bow Labour and the Greens for your continued support of coercive collectivisation.
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October 24, 2010 2:24pm
bhudson

I wonder if Zhumao takes Sundays off? He’s another one who doesn’t like the truth to get in the way of a good story.

I guess we’ll find out shortly…
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October 24, 2010 2:27pm
reid

Get specific Akaroa.

“The CIA flourished under Reagan who was simply an extension to the Bush obliarchy.”

Wiki, the CIA flourished because Bush 41 used it for Iran-Contra, which was done by Bush 41, not by Reagan. You’ll recall of course Bush 41 was CIA Director at one stage.
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October 24, 2010 2:36pm
joe90

Oh noes Fletch!, Muslims wearing things. Page through, you’ll be surprised at who is a Muslim.
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October 24, 2010 3:30pm
reid

“A few facts on Dresden,useful to read as the far left and neo Nazis keep pulling it out to attack the west with.”

Which one am I, kowtow?

(Hint: I like smart black uniforms.)
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October 24, 2010 3:32pm
big bruv

Apologies if somebody else has already posted this link but I do think it shows that Tony Vietch has not changed his ways at all.
It seems that the little “tough guy” is still of the opinion that he can attack females.

http://msn.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10682716
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October 24, 2010 5:13pm
starboard

5 dead already on the roads..so much for this over the 4kmh enforcement bullshit..go and bully the real criminals and leave joe public alone ya jackbooted tossers.
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October 24, 2010 6:10pm
Fletch

joe90, not sure what point you’re trying to make…. ???
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October 24, 2010 6:14pm
dad4justice

Hey big blouse can you stop with the emails. I mean over 60 since Friday. Get a life you sick twisted queer. You are now marked as spam you deranged cowardly troll.
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October 24, 2010 6:47pm
dad4justice

I am convinced big blouse formerly insolent prick needs urgent mental health treatment. What kind of fucked in the head idiot cowardly smear sends this ;

“Here I am, why not say it…or are you a bit frightened?”
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October 24, 2010 7:00pm
big bruv

Stop taking those drugs D4J
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October 24, 2010 7:01pm
dad4justice

Look big blouse Clint told me who you are. Look #### lets sort this out in the ring.
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October 24, 2010 7:05pm
starboard

fuck here we go…popcorn , coke..ok go guys..
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October 24, 2010 7:10pm
nickb

fuck here we go…popcorn , coke..ok go guys..

Lol my thoughts. Pull up a comfy chair
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October 24, 2010 7:12pm
dad4justice

Sorry dudes fight night is cancelled because big blouse is to gutless to confront people away from the keyboard. He is a true kiwi coward.
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October 24, 2010 7:15pm
big bruv

Starboard and Nick

Sorry to disappoint you both but there will be no show tonight, old D4J is becoming unhinged and I suspect if I gave him another hammering he might do himself a mischief.

You know how upset gay men can be….
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October 24, 2010 7:16pm
dad4justice

Oh look the coward of the net says I am gay. Ok blouse I am a turd tapper will you fight me in the ring?

All proceeds can go to a charity. Come on coward, come on blouse, come on wimp, haha…………..

Hey Clint you did say this act is full of shit.
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October 24, 2010 7:17pm
starboard

umm..Id love to know the background to all of this…
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October 24, 2010 7:21pm
dad4justice

“another hammering”

In your wet dreams tuffey.
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October 24, 2010 7:21pm
nickb

umm..Id love to know the background to all of this…

Hahah I suspect it is a long story starboard
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October 24, 2010 7:24pm
big bruv

There is no background as such starboard, I simply disagreed with D4J over a couple of issues many months back and for some reason he now cannot see a comment posted by me without going into fits of rage.

Clearly the man has anger issues.
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October 24, 2010 7:24pm
dad4justice

“umm..Id love to know the background to all of this…”

I would say it started after the NBR wrote a piece about kiwiblog. You have never got over being linked with myself and redbaiter eh blouse. I do not have anger issues and I am not gay but I would love to sort you out face to face. Your type makes me ill. Have some spirit and come on into the ring. I promise I will only box with one hand.
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October 24, 2010 7:27pm
nickb

D4J I don’t want to get involved in this at all, but you do not do yourself much good by getting so aggressive.

Maybe if you just tried to be civil?
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October 24, 2010 7:32pm
dad4justice

I forgot to add that insolent prick disappeared the day after the NBR article was published and it mutated into big bruv the blouse coward of the net. Hell friends of this creep must be embarrassed by this gutless wonder.
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October 24, 2010 7:34pm
big bruv

Stop it D4J, you really are embarrassing yourself now.
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October 24, 2010 7:35pm
dad4justice

Is that Insolent Prick talking or billy borker?
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October 24, 2010 7:38pm
starboard

I would say it started after the NBR wrote a piece about kiwiblog. You have never got over being linked with myself and redbaiter eh blouse.

..this bits not clear would you care to explain.
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October 24, 2010 7:48pm
dad4justice

starboard, some years back the National business Review did an article on kiwiblog. In the article redbaiter , d4j and Insolent Prick (IP) were mentioned. Insolent Prick went berserk and made it clear he had nothing to do with red and myself. Next thing IP disappeared from blogosphere and big bruv appeared. This blouse creep is without a backbone.

Nostradamus will be able to verify what I say.
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October 24, 2010 8:07pm
starboard

ah I see..thank you.
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October 24, 2010 8:09pm
dad4justice

Now all can see why big blouse displays so much hatred towards myself and redbaiter.
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October 24, 2010 8:11pm
Hurf Durf

Hey, Puke, care to rebut any of this? Or are you just going to quietly disappear after I kick your historical ass again and again and again?
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October 24, 2010 8:29pm
big bruv

Anybody got a link to the article I supposedly wrote?
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October 24, 2010 8:56pm
dad4justice

Don’t confuse things blouse you didn’t write it. Does your hatred ever run out. Don’t answer – goodbye creep.
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October 24, 2010 8:59pm
Luc Hansen

Just what do you want rebutted hurf?

Remember, rebuttal is my specialty!
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October 24, 2010 11:06pm
Guy Fawkes

The difference between ‘righties’ and ‘lefties’

‘If a Rightie doesn’t like guns, he doesn’t buy one.
If a Leftie doesn’t like guns, he wants all guns outlawed.
.
If a Rightie is a vegetarian, he doesn’t eat meat.
If a Leftie is a vegetarian, he wants all meat products banned for everyone.
.
If a Rightie is gay, he quietly leads his life.
If a Leftie is gay, he demands legislated respect.
.
If a Rightie is down-and-out, he thinks about how to better his situation.
A Leftie wonders who is going to take care of him.
.
If a Rightie doesn’t like what a media bod says, he changes channels.
Lefties demand that those they don’t like be shut down.
.
If a Rightie is a non-believer, he doesn’t go to church.
A Leftie non-believer wants any mention of God and religion silenced.
.
If a Rightie decides he needs sickness care, he goes about shopping for it, or may choose a job that provides it.
A Leftie demands that the rest of us pay for his.
.
If a Rightie reads this, he will pass it on so his friends can have a good laugh.
A Leftie will delete it because he’s “offended”.’
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October 25, 2010 4:13am

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