General Debate 23 October 2010

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Rodders

He’s back in the news – a parasite, pure and simple.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/arts/4266130/Beneficiaries-artist-gets-dole-back
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October 23, 2010 8:32am
Rufus

What a loser. He has no clue how the real world works.

Some excerpts:

He did not tell Work and Income about the grant, and his benefit was suspended on Friday last week after the agency became aware of it.

“I’m trying to be honest. I did receive the amount, but it breaks down to a very low amount.”

Hhm. Breaking the rules = breaking the rules. Trying to be honest?! Try harder.

Wells said he was now working with a broker to find work, but he did not believe this contradicted his stance on unemployment. “I do believe we need to work less to consume less. If you’re not happy in one job, you’re uneconomic and inefficient. You need to be able to quit with no punishment.“

So he’s changed his tune. It’s now work less, rather than not work at all.

And Mr Wells, no-one will punish you if you quit. You’ll just have no money to pay rent with and buy food with. (In the real world – unfortunately we have this molly-coddling WINZ that’ll sort you out no matter how lazy you are)

“Wells could not specify what kind of work he would look for through the broker, but said that, as an artist, he was “always working”.

Working?! The basterd is having a laugh at our expense. I wonder if he has ever really worked a day in his life.

Thief.
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October 23, 2010 8:50am
Yvette

Workers urge ‘positive’ mass rally
… “The issue that Warners have is that they don’t have a guarantee that the union won’t do this again,” film technician Paul Tobin said.
“What’s to say that they leave The Hobbit alone but then do it again when another big production comes in?”
A united voice was needed now, which was why workers were organising the rally, fellow technician Luke Hawker said.” …
Kate Newton – The Dominion Post

Why not also declare the formation of a new union, with appropriate declarations in its founding article to met the requirements of the technical staff and crews?
Wipe Robyn Malcolm and Aussie Simon Whipp’s union off the face of the earth [Middle and otherwise]
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October 23, 2010 8:50am
bhudson

No. Wells has not won at all. In fact the article shows him as a complete loser.

He has had to take active steps now with a ‘work broker’ to find employment. He has folded and agreed to find work rather than lose his benefit.

Looks like his principles are as shallow as his thought processes and reasoning ability.
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October 23, 2010 8:54am
Rufus

bhudson, sure – he now has to go and find work.

However, there are so many ways he can string this out. He’s been on the dole (on and off apparently – I wonder what proportion “on” and what proportion “off”) since 1997 already – this guy is a lifer.

I’d be interested in seeing how this pans out. Is WINZ going to get tough on him, or will he manage to weasel another 13 years snuffling around in the public purse?
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October 23, 2010 9:00am
bhudson

Rufus,

According to the article, WINZ are actively searching for work for him and he has agreed to take on appropriate work. (As I understand it WINZ is the arbiter of what is ‘appropriate’ not the ‘job seeker’.) Given his professed claims as an artist, perhaps working for WCC claening off graffiti is an appropriate option for him.

I find it deliciously amusing though that he has folded and sold out on his principles in order not to lose the dole. A complete shallow nobofy, bereft of genuine principles or moral fibre.

Yes, I agree he will still try and rort the system as much as he can. However, as someone pointed out in the main thread on this (I think it might have been I2) – he will now have a big black star against his name and it is likely that any ‘change in circumstances’ will be scrutinised far more closely for this wee boy.
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October 23, 2010 9:21am
Rufus

bhudson,

True, true.

I’m just a very cynical person at times, especially when it comes to the WINZ merry-go-around.

I wonder who’d employ him?

In the meantime, we’re paying his wage. WINZ should’ve just cut it and left him to stand on his own two feet.

I he gets a job somewhere. Preferably on the minimum wage.

Time to pay back his debt to society.
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October 23, 2010 9:31am
davidp

Yet another day goes by while Phil Goff and Russel Norman are AWOL on the Hobbit issue. They can’t decide between their backers and celebrity mates on one hand, and ordinary working people on the other. So they abrogate leadership in favour of hiding.
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October 23, 2010 9:36am
Inventory2

Tao “working is slavery” Wells a hypocrite? Surely not.

http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2010/10/hypocrite-alert.html

He’s been telling different stories to different people, and eventually, the lies will be his undoing.
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October 23, 2010 9:36am
Inventory2

@ bhudson – yes, it was me [blushes modestly] ; I hope that WINZ takes off the kid gloves when dealing with Wells, and would not be at all surprised if the Minister takes more than a passing interest.
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October 23, 2010 9:47am
Sofia

GET CARTER
From http://carter.org.nz/

this, in response to what I thought was a reasonable comment –

No Responses to “Message to friends and supporters”
Sofia:  Your comment is awaiting moderation.
October 16, 2010 at 9:00 am “Three months ago a journalist called me and revealed that Phil Goff’s office had leaked details of my travel expenses again to the Press Gallery. I had not even received these figures myself. I flipped out and in anger and poor judgement lashed back.” 
Mr Carter, you must have on file the dated document which informed you of the travel expenses to which you refer, and the date when this was made public through the leak you claim. I challenge you to publish these dates here so we may see the validity of what you say.

the result of ‘moderation’:
comment deleted
“Message to friends and supporters” now ends –

… If you need any help, support or just want a chat please contact me. Email chris.carter@parliament.govt.nz or call in to see me. I will be around for a while yet!
| No Comments »
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October 23, 2010 10:00am
Inventory2

DPF uses moderation to keep an open debate seemly. The blogs on the left use moderation as a blunt instrument to ensure that no-one goes off-message. The odd thing is that they don’t credit anyone with the intelligence to notice!
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October 23, 2010 10:15am
reid

“They [Goff et al] can’t decide between their backers and celebrity mates on one hand, and ordinary working people on the other.”

I think they decided when it first broke that this one was going to really stink so rather than helping out their CTU mates without whom they’d never have won the Auckland mayoralty they’re leaving them to sink beneath the waves of public excoriation without so much as a murmur. Some friends eh?

Still, as I was saying last night on the CTU thread, this is underlining the irrelevance of unions in general in the modern setting and the more people who wake up to that the better.

It will be interesting to see their reaction when Brownlee changes the ERA to make sure that contractors really will remain as contractors and not employees when employed for specific projects even if they last for years, as for example the Transpower project will be doing. I wonder if Gerry will do it at midnight under urgency using the Christchurch Earthquake Recovery and Reconstruction Act? That would be even funnier.

Yvette, re: new union, good idea.
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October 23, 2010 10:34am
RightNow

IV2 “they don’t credit anyone with the intelligence to notice” – they fool most of their voters most of the time, that’s enough for them.
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October 23, 2010 10:56am
RightNow

Yvette – there are already several unions/guilds in NZ that cover the industry. Personally I dislike equating guilds with unions (to me a guild means a group of skilled craftsmen that groups together to advance their skills and trade) but a guild also sets out minimum working conditions, so they have some common functions.

There is however, nothing to stop competing unions from being formed. There would be reprisals from existing unions though, the CTU probably hold some sanctioning power.
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October 23, 2010 11:03am
Fletch

New to hand about the trial of Geert Wilders – they have to start all over again! With a whole new court; because one of the judges currently hearing the case tried to influence an expert witness for Wilders at a dinner the witness was invited to, where he didn’t know the judge was going to be present. The judge steered the conversation to Wilders etc etc..

Just keeps getting more insane.

Newspaper De Pers today ran a story (NL) about expert witness Hans Jansen. It’s about a blog posting by Hans Jansen, who is a regular contributor of the Dutch group blog named Hoeiboei (NL). In yesterdays blog post Jansen wrote about a dinner (NL) for which he was invited only three days before his expert witness testimony in the trial against Geert Wilders (translation of this blog post by Hans Jansen here: Judge Schalken).

Hans Jansen was invited to the dinner by a 50 year old friend, Bertus Hendriks (NL), the friend however is also a leftwing activist for the Palestinan cause. Unknown to Hans Jansen were the other invited guests. It turned out several were judges and prosecutors, one of them was Tom Schalken. Of course Tom Schalken is not just a judge, he is one of the three judges who ordered the trial against Geert Wilders. During the dinner the judge repeatedly steered the conversation with Jansen to the Wilders trial. The judge clearly wanted to talk about it with Hans Jansen and influence his opinions about the trial. But Hans Jansen writes, he was not very impressed by his obviously fake friendly way of convincing him.

MORE
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October 23, 2010 12:56pm
Viking2

Well like we can pick and chose between making ourselves poorer or richer.
In this world rewards come to those that give of themselves to others. i.e. the law of Kama prevails.
Its about giving something to get something back.
But then why would we expect a Law Professor to understand that? eh

NZ ‘should not prostitute itself for Hobbit movies’
NZPA
Last updated 09:51 23/10/2010

NOT AT ALL COSTS: Employment law expert Paul Roth has criticized the Government’s suggestion that the law could be changed to suit the producers of the Hobbit movies.

The troubled Hobbit movies have attracted more controversy with an Otago law specialist saying the Government should not be considering changing the law to give more subsidies to persuade Warner Brothers not to move production out of New Zealand.

Yesterday Otago University employment law specialist professor Paul Roth criticised the Government’s suggestion that the law could be changed to suit the producers of the Hobbit movies.

He told The Otago Daily Times said it was “business as usual” in terms of New Zealand law-making, showing what a Third-World country the country was.

“If that’s what the Government wants to do it can do it,” he told the Otago Daily Times.

Well yes it is and the Govt. has a responsibility to do just that.

Where was this clown when the last Govt. went about changing the Laws and where is he voicing the same thoughts about the Seabed and Foreshore Legislation.?
Like Goffy and Little and all the rest of the moral cowards disappeared into no man lands.

Professor Roth said New Zealand was a small and poor country trying to attract big business and a law change relating to the film industry could set a precedent and similar action could be suggested for any industry likely to be damaged by overseas competition

Now where has this stupid turkey been for last however many decades, indeed since NZ began.
Our meat industry, wool industry and many others have been at the mercy of oversea’s control forever and no amount of efforts by them nor anyone else ever changed the unions bad attitudes.
Many of our other industries have been replaced by oversea’s countries and companies producing product that once was our so the question is at what point do we stand up and take a Nationalistic stand and fight for the business that can be opurs.
Of course lawyers and particularly those that live the cloistered life in the halls of holly, paid for by the tax payer while he uses his big salary to rip off the tax system no doubt, just don’t understand the fundamentals of existing in business.

Professor Roth said New Zealand was a small and poor country trying to attract big business and a law change relating to the film industry could set a precedent and similar action could be suggested for any industry likely to be damaged by overseas competition.

Good job then because that is how many of us already exist and anything to make that better will be good.
The cloth cap 40 hour man is long gone in a world of connectivity and 5.5 billion people.
This guy needs to open his eyes and look about more often.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/4267328/NZ-should-not-prostitute-itself-for-Hobbit-movies
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October 23, 2010 12:58pm
wikiriwhis business

http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/959.html

How a nerve poison became food

The story of asperfame

Stay away from diet drinks, ultrasweet, equal.
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October 23, 2010 4:50pm
Pauleastbay

wikiriwhis

Wiki aspartame same thing me thinks, not quite as bad in your link I think, although natural is best
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October 23, 2010 5:20pm
Fletch

wikiriwhis – there’s a very useful site about it HERE, about a guy who had Aspartame poisoning, and set the site up to alert other people. He is dead now, but his daughter runs it. From what I can understand, Aspartame was discovered while scientists were looking to create a medicine for stomach ulcers. One of them got some powder on his fingers and discovered it was sweet, and it came from that.

I wouldn’t touch it with a 10 foot pole. The FDA rejected it 8 times (papers on the site). Just a few years a go, a girl got sick from it, by eating lots of that Extra gum (apart from which she was previously very healthy). She goes around now and warns people about it.
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October 23, 2010 5:39pm
wikiriwhis business

Very relieved this is common knowledge 🙂
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October 23, 2010 5:51pm
Fletch

Yeh, I first heard about Aspartame on TV years ago on that Good Morning programme. A woman rang in who had diabetes, so she and her husband were drinking the diet drinks. She noticed that she was actually putting on weight (so much for “diet”) and not losing any and her husband had a wound that wouldn’t heal up properly. It turns out that the body cannot easily get rid of aspartame as it may turn into formaldehyde (or wood alcohol) and is stored in the fat tissues. Once she stopped taking it, she lost like 20 pounds without doing anything different, and her husband’s leg also healed when he stopped. Many people who drink it have symptoms similar to multiple sclerosis. I remember hearing about someone in a wheel chair who they thought had MS and a friend found out he was drinking lots of diet soda and told him to stop. He managed to leave his wheelchair behind and walk up and down stairs again.

It’s bad stuff..

One of the only safe artificial sweeteners is Stevia, that is made from actual plants.
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October 23, 2010 5:57pm
wikiriwhis business

Its amazing how much weight you can lose just going off soft drinks.

Soft Drinks are definitely a no no for growing children. They got enough energy.
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October 23, 2010 6:03pm
Fletch

ps, many people also have questions about Michael J Fox’s having Parkinson’s disease, being that when he was filming the Family Ties sitcom, the show (or maybe it was Fox himself) was being sponsored by Diet Pepsi, and he was drinking the stuff by the case load. Makes you wonder.
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October 23, 2010 6:04pm
wat dabney

What a complete load of crap.

http://www.snopes.com/medical/toxins/aspartame.asp you wonder.
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October 23, 2010 6:10pm
side show bob

Why do many woman from the lunatic left appear to be pig butt ugly? Perhaps they were spurned or teased and didn’t have much luck with the opposite sex. Perhaps life with the left is their way on getting back on society. Just being watching the women who dealt with Juan Williams sacking and persecution. What hard looking things and you could say the same about many on the left in this joint.
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October 23, 2010 6:10pm
Fletch

wat dabney, don’t believe everything you read on snopes. They’re not the be-all and end-all of all that’s true. Check it out for yourself – find out what people are saying; those who have had the symptoms and given up on the diet stuff. Look at the actual FDA reports on the dorway site. I’m not saying it’s been 100% proved to be bad for you – that’s for you to make up your own mind – but it’s best to be informed. And there is a definite question mark over it. It’s your health. Personally, I’d rather eat sugar.

Also, being that there is a question around Aspartame, I think it’s VERY wrong that’s it’s being used in things like the Berrocca fizzy vitamin tablets, cough mixtures, Lemsip, chewable vitamin C and the like (sometimes marked as phenolenyline – spelling?) These are supposed to be health products and medicines. I always check now. I think it’s disgraceful to put it in this stuff.
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October 23, 2010 6:18pm
wat dabney

“don’t believe everything you read on snopes”

You mean like references to the FDA, The Lancet and the American Council on Science and Health?

“Don’t believe everything you read on the Internet” is the real lesson here.
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October 23, 2010 6:27pm
Fletch

wat –

In 1980, the FDA Public Board Of Inquiry voted unanimously to reject the use of aspartame. The short version as to why? (In their words, not mine.)

• Flawed data
• Brain tumor findings in animal studies
• Lack of studies on humans to determine long-term effects

Want the longer version? Read the history timeline here on DORway, then read about the shady way it was approved, including being ramrodded through the approval process by Donald Rumsfeld, who later went to work for the PR firm representing Searle (the company that first marketed the chemical). And if that weren’t enough, the Bressler Report, written by Jerome Bressler (who worked for the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) in 1977), describes numerous instances where Searle was less than forthcoming about reporting negative results. So the FDA allowed Searle to conduct and present their own tests and then to submit the findings of their choice. This, my friends, is a matter of pubic record. It’s a long read, but you can check it out a pdf of the official document here on DORway.

From dorway..

Just because the FDA says it’s OK now and people can cherry pick statements from them, doesn’t mean it’s safe.
Searle conducted their own tests (not independent) and left stuff out that they didn’t want folks to know. read up on it. You can eat it if you want – no one is stopping you, but I think people have a right to know.
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October 23, 2010 6:40pm
Hurf Durf

Aspartame and Acesulfame isn’t exactly sweetness (heh) and light and I avoid the stuff like the plague (Coke Zero tastes like ass anyway) but that doesn’t mean food nazis like the Green Party have the right to demand everything that it’s in be BANNED LIKE THE FILTH IT IS and poured down the drain into the sewer.

Like the raw food/vegan movement and environmentalism in general, the sweetener hysteria is also linked to Big Government Marxists who want to control every aspect of your life. Give them the necessary distance just as you would to companies like Coca-Cola, companies that at least hold their intentions on their sleeve.
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October 23, 2010 7:23pm
wat dabney

Fletch,

You wrote “many people also have questions about Michael J Fox’s having Parkinson’s disease, being that when he was filming the Family Ties sitcom, the show (or maybe it was Fox himself) was being sponsored by Diet Pepsi, and he was drinking the stuff by the case load. Makes you wonder.”

Specifically, such a statement makes us wonder about you. In particular, I’m not clear how Pepsi sponsoring a show could cause the star to get cancer or whatever. Did they sprinkle depleted uranium on the dollar bills? Why would they do that? Why did Pepsi secretly plot with Al Queda and the Rand Corporation to kill Michael J. Fox? Had he stumbled across Treadstone?

Alzheimer’s Association
American Academy of Family Physicians
American Cancer Society
American Council on Science and Health
American Diabetes Association
American Dietetic Association
American Heart Association
Asthma and Allergy Foundation of America
Columbia University
Lupus Foundation of America
Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Mayo Clinic
Multiple Sclerosis Society of Canada
Multiple Sclerosis Foundation
National Cancer Institute
National Multiple Sclerosis Society
National Parkinson Foundation
The Nemours Foundation
U.K. Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (MAFF)
U.S. Consumer Information Center
http://www.aspartame-experts.com/aspartame_experts_science.htm

You are credulously recycling an old internet meme.

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=6822

Frankly you’d have more credibility if you blamed Fox’s condition on time travel.
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October 23, 2010 8:06pm
Viking2

http://breathingearth.net/
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October 23, 2010 9:58pm
Fletch

Dude, what’s your problem? I’m not stopping you from eating it. You can do what you want. I’m presenting the other side of the argument backed up by 800 pages of information on dorway.com. You can take it or leave it, but one thing I can say is that aspartame hasn’t been proven to be safe by anyone. As I said, it started out as a medicine for stomach ulcers and got turned into an artificial sweetener. Just like Global Warming, the science isn’t settled, no matter what you say.

And I already explained about the Fox theory (yes, it’s a theory), and it’s because of the artificial sweetener in diet colas.
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October 23, 2010 10:36pm
Pete George

Just like Global Warming, the science isn’t settled, no matter what you say.

No science is settled, it’s always a work in progress, although a lot of science is backed by compelling evidence.

The number of pages of information on the internet is not compelling, in many cases a single sentence can be far more compelling than the screes of beliefs and accusations and conspiracies on the Internet.

Recently an article in the New York Times discussed a new seven-year study on aspartame by Dr. Morando Soffritti. The research team found that the sweetener was associated with high rates of lymphoma, leukemia and other cancer in rats who were given doses equivalent to five 20 ounce diet sodas a day (I know people who live on the stuff). This led the European Food Safety Authority to look more closely at the safety of aspartame. I hope the FDA does the same thing.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,184872,00.html

But both the F.D.A. and the European Commission have cautioned that there is no need for people to avoid aspartame. “We don’t see any concerns at this stage,” said George H. Pauli, associate director for science policy in the F.D.A.’s Office of Food Additive Safety. “We’ve gone through a humongous amount of data on aspartame over the years.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/12/business/yourmoney/12sweet.html?_r=2&oref=slogin

So this looks far from settled, but one obvious moral is, don’t drink five 20 ounce diet sodas a day.
(5 x 20 oz is about 3 litres).
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October 24, 2010 7:26am
reid

“So this looks far from settled, but one obvious moral is, don’t drink five 20 ounce diet sodas a day. (5 x 20 oz is about 3 litres).”

Luckily beer doesn’t have aspartame.
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October 24, 2010 8:02am
Pete George

Reid – refer to http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2010/10/the_hos_drink_driving_campaign.html#comment-757128
The police don’t have Aspartame campaigns.

Who would be more dangerous on the road, someone coming home from a restaurant mellowed by 3 wines, or some young male with a hotted up car hotted up with a high sugar fix?
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October 24, 2010 8:31am

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