General Debate 21 October 2010

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Rick Rowling

Aussies dick over kiwis again.

MEAA celebrates with a bowl of small, tasteless apples.
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October 21, 2010 8:59am
lofty

It is becoming clearer by the day that the present upheaval in industrial problems, is part of a concerted & co ordinated effort to undermine the Govt.
It is about trying to swing the public mood to set a tone for Labours return to power & a union friendly govt.
I think they got their strategy wrong on this one though.
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October 21, 2010 9:01am
Manolo

It won’t be long before Key gives in to the racist Maori Party (again): http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/politics/4251081/Maori-Party-waits-on-foreshore-reply
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October 21, 2010 9:02am
Yvette

Reporting on THE HOBBIT’s fate is rather vague. The Heralds’ Amelia Wade may have never been south of the Bombay Hills to know to question whether “Up to 1500 workers marched from Weta’s Miramar studios into central Wellington to picket an Actors’ Equity meeting being held at St John’s Hall.” If they went that distance it was a staggering feet of protest.

But they further report –
“Speaking after the technicians’ meeting, Sir Richard told TVNZ that the New Zealand film industry was “at some level of peril”.
“The mood is one of great concern … Wellington film technicians want to be heard. They want to be represented in these very bizarre and strange events that are going on right now,” he said.

– This requires the follow-up question no one seems to have asked – If the shooting of the film is to go overseas, will the post-production go to?

Sir Richard Taylor’s comments on ONE NEWS yesterday evening and the fervour of the technicians make one wonder how secure Weta Workshop and Weta Digital are in this industrial mess.

No media outlet seems to have looked at the relationship between Peter Jackson and Richard Taylor, their current partnership, and what each now owns of the Weta organisations.

It appears this fiasco has allowed governments of competing countries to offer tax breaks [maybe twice] larger than New Zealand’s, and that will now decide the issue – whether overseas breaks will off set the re-development here of Hobbiton, and already-built new soundstage sets.
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October 21, 2010 9:03am
Lance

There was some bloody fool on breakfast TV this morning claiming there is a big swing in favour of the unions.

The scary thing is……. he probably believes his own rhetoric
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October 21, 2010 9:10am
wikiriwhis business

Great debate about the way to recovery for the US. Wholly stimulating.

http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=5749
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October 21, 2010 9:11am
wikiriwhis business

@Manalo

Key is a socialist, what do you expect.
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October 21, 2010 9:12am
WebWrat

Global warming “propagandist” purged from the pages of Wikipedia
http://www.ihatethemedia.com/global-warming-william-connelley-purged-from-wikipedia-pages

And:

“The Climategate Emails describe how a small band of climatologists cooked the books to make the last century seem dangerously warm.”
http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fullcomment/archive/2009/12/18/370719.aspx
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October 21, 2010 9:14am
Redbaiter

I feel General Debate gets bogged down in Global Warming bullshit so I try not to post too much on it, but this is an article well worth reading, especially if you’re interested in understanding leftist fraud and how they abuse all of our public institutions.

1) It demonstrates how Wikipedia was completely and outrageously corrupted by GW believers who denied dissenting voices a forum.

2) It also shows that Wikipedia is still extremely unreliable on political issues.

Once again, a good idea is undermined by power obsessed leftists who pervert everything they are able to into a political tool.

http://opinion.financialpost.com/2010/10/14/global-warming-propagandist-slapped-down/

The two links in the article are well worth a read too.

Edit- Great minds webby, great minds.. 🙂
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October 21, 2010 9:18am
Murray

There is no problem with Andrew Little wearing two hats. It makes it eaiser to cordinate the undermining of the New Zealand economy and facilitate is rise to be president for life of the poeoples communist collective of country formerly known as New Zealand.
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October 21, 2010 9:18am
arkhad

I have been concerned ever since the Garret episode about our electoral law.

When Garret was first kicked out of Act he said he was taking some time to reflect on whether he would continue as an independent MP. My concern is that he even had the choice. How could it be that someone who had no seat, that no-one had ever voted for and was only in by virtue of the party list be given that choice once he left the party. In this instance it all came to nought. However if the electoral law permits it, then what is there to stop a political strategy of de-railing the government by ‘farming’ MPs.

Is my mind playing tricks on me or could say Labour make its List MPs leave on the understanding those people would then stay on as ‘independent’ MPs. Then bring in a whole pile more people to replace them and effectively cause such distortion that the government effectively loses the ability to govern? Is this a piece of legislation that needs tightening up before it becomes urgent?

And while I am on it, I wish the electoral law would be amended so that parties that owed money to the taxpayer could not stand at an election. In this case would only be NZ first but it should be the case for any party that behaves illegally and does not make amends. You can’t even fly to Sydney if you haven’t settled your court fine but we think it is OK to stand as a party when you have unpaid debts to the taxpayer.
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October 21, 2010 9:20am
Pete George

Webwrat, a blog on “Climategate” from December 2009 is somewhat out of date.
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October 21, 2010 9:22am
WebWrat

Redbaiter, “….. especially if you’re interested in understanding leftist fraud and how they abuse all of our public institutions.”

That’s it in a nutshell.
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October 21, 2010 9:22am
WebWrat

Fraud has a ‘use by’ date does it Pete?
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October 21, 2010 9:23am
bobux

The Waitangi Tribunal report demanding the government, in effect, force people to learn Maori contains a striking fact.

In 1994, there were 14,515 pupils enrolled in kohunga reo.
In 2009, there were 9288 pupils enrolled in kohunga reo.

If Maori parents don’t want their children to receive an education in a Maori-language school, is it the role of the Waitangi Tribunal to impose it on them?
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October 21, 2010 9:26am
Murray

Is the bullshit data beign pedaled by Al Gore from pre 2009 put of date pete?
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October 21, 2010 9:31am
Murray

bobux if the stone age language is dying maybe its time is over and it should be allowed to die out.

A lot of more advanced and culterally significant languages have.
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October 21, 2010 9:32am
krazykiwi

I have a new job.. and have acquired with it the carbon footprint of a herd of Yeti. All good, but not so much time to blog these days. Ah well. Hope everyone’s happy and well 🙂
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October 21, 2010 9:38am
Murray

Yeti have carbon footprints?
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October 21, 2010 9:41am
Pete George

Accusations of fraud have a used-by date. Climate change is a wide ranging topic that is continually being updated. A lot of bullshit from both sides of the climate debate stales very quickly.

One person purged from Wikipedia is hardly going to change the whole outlook of the debate, it is one small play on one small player. “William Connolley, arguably the world’s most influential global warming advocate after Al Gore,” sounds a major overstatement. Who takes much notice of Al Gore these days? (Apart from those trying to discredit the whole debate) – and who has heard of Connolley? There are far more propagandists and repeaters of propagandists on the negative side of the debate.
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October 21, 2010 9:41am
Redbaiter

“The Waitangi Tribunal report”

The Waitangi Tribunal is at the heart of one of the biggest and costliest scams ever perpetrated in this country and should be closed down. Its a fraud, its fakery, its underpinned by lies and propaganda and it is racist.
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October 21, 2010 9:42am
Redbaiter

Webwrat- useless engaging with George. A communist coward on another planet and in another mental dimension.
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October 21, 2010 9:42am
Murray

Does actual frud have a use by date pete because gores film was pinged for numerous counts of misrepresentation and outright lies.
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October 21, 2010 9:44am
WebWrat

Yeah I know Red. I’m going to tail lambs now. Back to the real world!
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October 21, 2010 9:50am
krazykiwi

and who has heard of Connolley?

Who needs to hear of him? The question is how many people were influenced by his lying and deceit…

All told, Connolley created or rewrote 5,428 unique Wikipedia articles. His control over Wikipedia was greater still, however, through the role he obtained at Wikipedia as a website administrator, which allowed him to act with virtual impunity. When Connolley didn’t like the subject of a certain article, he removed it — more than 500 articles of various descriptions disappeared at his hand. When he disapproved of the arguments that others were making, he often had them barred — over 2,000 Wikipedia contributors who ran afoul of him found themselves blocked from making further contributions. Acolytes whose writing conformed to Connolley’s global warming views, in contrast, were rewarded with Wikipedia’s blessings. In these ways, Connolley turned Wikipedia into the missionary wing of the global warming movement.

The Medieval Warm Period disappeared, as did criticism of the global warming orthodoxy. With the release of the Climategate Emails, the disappearing trick has been exposed. The glorious Medieval Warm Period will remain in the history books, perhaps with an asterisk to describe how a band of zealots once tried to make it disappear.
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October 21, 2010 9:53am
Pete George

Does actual frud have a use by date pete because gores film was pinged for numerous counts of misrepresentation and outright lies.

There have been anti movies/documentaries that have been at least as bad. Anyone basing an opinion on one movie or on Wikipedia aren’t worth taking much notice of.
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October 21, 2010 9:57am
Yvette

arkhad
“I have been concerned ever since the Garret episode about our electoral law.

Do away with List Memebers –
If Parliament had Electorate Members only, those Electorate Member numbers for each party could be divided into their Party Vote total to give a voting value for each Electorate Member.

So National’s 41 Electorate Members would each have a 1.17% vote to give their 48.08% party representation, by Party Vote. [48.08% ÷ 41 = 1.17%]

Labour Electorate Members would have a slightly higher vote each, 1.73%, but there are only 21 of them, so that gives them their 36.37% party representation [Party Vote]

A Party which passes the 5% Party Vote thresh-hold to qualify for Parliament but doesn’t have any Electorate Members [Greens, this last Election] would be represented by the party leader.

This does away with 52 List Members

The figures may seem complex at first but could be worked out by your smarter ten-year old with a $10 Warehouse Stationery calculator.
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October 21, 2010 10:01am
Pete George

Need to ponder that one through Yvette but it’s an interesting concept, on the surface it sounds like solution to the List member problems but retains proportionality. I think I like it.
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October 21, 2010 10:08am
Redbaiter

Oprah to fly Stewart’s audience to Stewart’s rally-

And there are still people out there who deny the left are using Gramscian strategies. (using popular media, films, television shows, with no apparent political message, to surreptitiously and subliminally shape political opinion).

http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/tim-graham/2010/10/15/how-pro-obama-it-now-oprah-fly-jon-stewarts-audience-dc-stewart-colbert-
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October 21, 2010 10:17am
arkhad

Interesting Yvette. But regardless of whether they are called list MP’s or electorate members, they would need to be stopped from going ‘independent’ and being replaced by the party with someone else.
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October 21, 2010 10:20am
cabbage

Have seen Hekia’s supporters on the grass verge at the Papakowhai/SH1 intersection this morning. Big sea of blue, waving placards and encouraging toots of support.

In fact it’s the third time I have seen the Parata team on the streets of the electorate, yet all I have seen of Faafoi is a few badly placed billboards.

I do realise that its almost a given that labour will win Mana, but their lack of a campaign surprises me. (at least, thats my perception of their campaign)
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October 21, 2010 10:24am
Yvette

to arkhad –
It would require a by-election in any electorate to lose its member – as it did under First past The Post – should they commit crime, become ill or die, or otherwise drastically change the mandate under which they were elected.

Or under this system of Party / Electorate Voting Value [to demonstate its flexibility] you wouldn’t need to replace a member – just increase the Voting Value of each other member of that Party to reflect and maintain the Party Vote.
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October 21, 2010 10:32am
Jack5

John Key and Alan Bollard remain staunchly opposed to intervention as the kiwi dollar remains sky high and set to start skittling exporters.

You would expect that from Key, who made his fortune in the freewheeling currency markets. You would expect that of Bollard, too, who follows in the footsteps of Don Brash, a free-market economist, though after his banking career Brash made calls for research into new ways to control inflation apart from short-term interest rates, which drive the kiwi high.

As pointed out in the general debate thread yesterday, Key and Bollard perhaps ought to look at Israel, where the central banker, Stanley Fischer, is doing a great job in keeping Israel’s currency, the shekel, under control by intervening in the currency market.

The Wall Street Journal reported Fischer began buying US dollars in March 2008, when the global financial crisis was starting to snowball.

“Since then, Mr. Fischer has led one of the world’s most aggressive interventions in currency markets. From mid-2008 to mid-2009, the bank snatched up US$100 million a day. It has continued at a furious pace, adding over US$7 billion to its reserves so far this year.”

In mid-2008, the US dollar was about three shekels before strengthening against the Israeli currency amid the intervention. Through most of 2010, the US dollar was buying just under four shekels, through it has fallen back to around 3.6 shekels in recent weeks.

Israel’s foreign reserves stand at nearly US$70 billion, compared with US$29 billion before Fischer began buying.

Brian Fallow on currency control in the Hooer-ald:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10681936

Bollard pours cold water on intervention:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/markets/news/article.cfm?c_id=62&objectid=10681986
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October 21, 2010 11:26am
Manolo

What are we waiting to abolish the despised Waitangi Tribunal, which is nothing but a farcical pseudo-organisation devoted to promoting racial division and to lining its own pockets.

The cost has been to high already, the positive results negligible.
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October 21, 2010 11:38am
kowtow

Now that the Maoris have shown they don’t give a shit about their language and Peter Sharples has said it’s up to Maoris to save it themselves could the guilt riddled white liberal elites who shove this nonsense down our necks please back off.

That applies to the likes of TVNZ,RNZ etc constantly addressing the nation with Maori greetings and introductions,as well as pronunciation of place names when speaking English!

And scrap Maori TV to save the taxpayer a bob or two.
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October 21, 2010 11:56am
bhudson

Jack5,

“You would expect that from Key…”

Not for the reasons you seem to think (freewheeling currency markets.) Key is fully aware of how dependent our country is on export earnings – he will be more than aware that an increasing NZD value harms our receipts. That is balanced, however, by a fundamental requirement to minimise govt intervention in a the global market economy we participate in – i.e. medium to long term the damage through intervention is greater than the immediate hit to exports.
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October 21, 2010 12:08pm
Jack5

Re B. Hudson’s 12.08 post.

I agree John Key has a great background for debate on currency. For example, as well as a top trader, he was a member of the New York Federal Reserve Bank’s foreign exchange committee of from 1999 to 2001. I don’t know anyone-else in NZ with his experience in currency trade.

However, I think maybe in light of the 2007-08 market collapses it is time to modify pure market views, especially on currency.

Even Alan Greenspan, who incidentally was the most prominent and most succesful disciple of Ayn Rand, admitted as much when he appeared before the US Congress two years ago (23rd October 2008). Greenspan, the former Federal Reserve chief, admitted there was a flaw in the free-market model of the financial system.

He said the “whole intellectual edifice” of the “modern risk management paradigm” had collapsed in the financial markets turmoil.

IMHO, we shouldn’t be leaving it to the leftists to take us back to failed old ways, but should be urging the Right to blaze new economic trails for NZ.
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October 21, 2010 12:36pm
Chthoniid

@krazykiwi

I have a new job.. and have acquired with it the carbon footprint of a herd of Yeti. All good, but not so much time to blog these days. Ah well. Hope everyone’s happy and well

Hope congratulations are in order for the new job anyway 🙂
Can we presume that there is a little more air travel entailed with the new position? Or are you managing a top-secret Fonterra project to clone & mass-produce cows?
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October 21, 2010 12:48pm
arkhad

Thanks Yvette – I like it!
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October 21, 2010 12:58pm
Jimbob

As with the NZ dollar it would be best to let sleeping dogs lie. You would have to go back to pre float days and value it on a basket of currencies. Then you will not have the shock absorber that a floating currency gives a country. We borrow too much from overseas for a small country, therefore our interest rates tend to be higher, which seems to attract overseas investors. There seems to be no easy answer.
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October 21, 2010 1:20pm
Jack5

Re Jimbob at 1.20:

If only the dogs WERE sleeping.
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October 21, 2010 1:52pm
Jack5

Why won’t the libertarians and Ayn Randists come out to play today?

This surely looks like State intervention to me:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10682085
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October 21, 2010 1:55pm
Sonny Blount

Yvette and Arkhad,

How about the mps who make up the list rankings being based on the mps who gained the most votes but lost their electorates.

That would mean every mp would stand in an electorate and have reason to represent a constituency to retain their job as an mp. It would mean that any mp or minister even in a winning party is able to be voted out (ie a government could be supported but their policies in a particular area could be rejected by voting out that minister). It would give incentive to place high quality candidates in marginal seats so a higher quality electoral discussion could be had and eat away at the concept of safe seats.

ie 30 Nat mps win their seats and the party vote provides for another 15 list mps, the first list mp would be a member who lost their electorate 49% to 48% for instance and so on. This mp could reasonably safely contest for this seat and try to win it off the opposition every election without risking their job.

Therefore the 45th and last list mp could be a member who has increased their vote tally from say 30% to 33% and a previously sitting member who decreased their tally from 32% to 26% would be booted out. If a list mp was to leave parliament, there would not be a by-election in their seat, rather the next cab off the rank from the previous election results would be given their slot. These mps in waiting would not have to curry favour from party heirachy for their spot, it is assured to them by their electorate voters until the next election and they could safely make noise over the 3 years.

It would be best to base it on absolute votes rather than percentages and therefore every mp could identify the 20,000 people or so they represent, and list mps would be rewarded or punished for their involvement or lack of in the community.
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October 21, 2010 2:09pm
Yvette

“My’ system would be winners only – not winners and losers.
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October 21, 2010 2:15pm
RightNow

Looks like the UK is up for some major austerity measures
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1322344/SPENDING-REVIEW-2010-George-Osborne-rolls-state.html

490,000 public sector jobs to go, amongst other things.
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October 21, 2010 4:10pm
grumpyoldhori

Jack5 come on dear boy, the so called free market types talk a good talk but when the shit hits the fan they are all screaming that the tax payer should hand out guarantees to trading banks and scum finance companies.

If free market types had any balls they would have argued to let the cards fall as they would when the shit in 2008 no matter what the damage was.
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October 21, 2010 4:37pm
RightNow

That’s exactly what the free market types called for grumpy, for those financial institutions that were failing to be allowed to fail. It was government intervention that bailed them out, partly to try and avoid the pain involved with the markets correcting, partly as payback for their big business backers (this is particularly true of Obama in the US, you have to ask yourself why HE was so keen on the TARP).
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October 21, 2010 4:43pm
James Stephenson

@ RightNow (4.10)

Liberty Scott has a slightly more sensible take on the “biggest since (insert hyperbole here) cuts”

http://libertyscott.blogspot.com/2010/10/british-government-cuts-modest-and.html
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October 21, 2010 4:46pm
bhudson

“let the cards fall as they would when the shit in 2008 no matter what the damage was.”

grumpy that is just plain ignorance. That would have resulted in all investors losing – including those mum & pop investors losing their retirement investments. It would have involved foreclosures – people out of their homes, busiensses closed down, many more people out of work. On a global scale it would have led to a run on banks which they could not service.

The global impact would have been a meltdown such that the loan issues in the US cause massive implications to people in NZ – think people with low equity mortgages having to suddenly repay large chunks of money to fit a new mortgage equity profile so that the ‘local’ banks could rebalance their loan books to get credit to service the loan calls made from offshore banks, and so on. The potential result there was good debtors being forced out of their homes through rule changes enforced because of other calls on debt made to issues offshore.

THAT is why govts around the world acted. Because to not act had far far greater implications.

(Incidentally it wasn’t freet market fans per se that caused the meltdown – it was evil greedy bastards – individuals mikling the systems anyway they could for their personal gain. They are not the same thing and you can have those greedy bastards and feed them to the lions if you wish.)
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October 21, 2010 4:54pm
Sonny Blount

“My’ system would be winners only – not winners and losers.

Is a National candidate winning Taranaki by 15,000 votes more of a winner than a National candidate risking their career to lose Christchurch Central by only 900?
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October 21, 2010 5:23pm
Jimbob

The question is will Governments and central bankers around the World stop the next financial melt down? Bernanke is getting in early with his QE 2 next month, it will be interesting to see how long before he comes in with QE 3.
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October 21, 2010 5:25pm
nickb

Jack5 come on dear boy, the so called free market types talk a good talk but when the shit hits the fan they are all screaming that the tax payer should hand out guarantees to trading banks and scum finance companies.

If free market types had any balls they would have argued to let the cards fall as they would when the shit in 2008 no matter what the damage was.

You seem convinced that if you repeat this false line often enough people might start believing it. No true right winger supported any kind of taxpayer bailout. RINO’s perhaps, but definitely not true right wingers.

That you keep repeating it however is not surprising, coming from the biggest liar on KB.
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October 21, 2010 5:31pm
nickb

Harawira nephews occupy sailing club:

http://tvnz.co.nz//national-news/harawira-s-nephews-occupy-sailing-club-3844672/video?vid=3844761

Northland gets more feral by the day. Sad because Taipa is a great place.
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October 21, 2010 5:41pm
wat dabney

“Jack5 come on dear boy, the so called free market types talk a good talk but when the shit hits the fan they are all screaming that the tax payer should hand out guarantees to trading banks and scum finance companies. If free market types had any balls they would have argued to let the cards fall as they would when the shit in 2008 no matter what the damage was.”

Er, that’s exactly what they are saying.

So, you know, you sort of look a bit of a dick.
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October 21, 2010 5:49pm
nickb

So, you know, you sort of look a bit of a dick.

Don’t worry wat, Hori is in the advanced stages of senile dementia.
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October 21, 2010 5:55pm
WebWrat

Who is the enemy?
http://barenakedislam.wordpress.com/2010/10/20/obama-is-helping-the-taliban-by-endangering-our-troops/#comments
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October 21, 2010 6:55pm
RightNow

nickb (1,507) Says:
October 21st, 2010 at 5:55 pm
So, you know, you sort of look a bit of a dick.

Don’t worry wat, Hori is in the advanced stages of senile dementia.

penile senile dementia in fact
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October 21, 2010 7:07pm
grumpyoldhori

RightNow come off it, the free market types were running the show in Wall street/ US banks when it went tits up in 2008.
They were the ones who went whining to Bush ( no, Obama did not take power until Jan 2009, to your surprise) wanting gifts of hundreds of billions of dollars from the ordinary mug US taxpayer and the Chinese to US banks.

The Democrats in congress made an error, they should have let the banks and Wall st swing.
Then the tea party would have wanted to pitch fork all the bloody bankers.
It would have been justice to see bankers leaping out of fortieth floor windows.
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October 21, 2010 7:54pm
Viking2

SFO raids WSD Group

The company pinged by TGIF Edition and Investigate magazine for its links to money launderers working for Islamic terror group Al Qa’ida, has today been raided by the Serious Fraud Office.

WSD had on its board at one time no lesser personages than former Progressive Party deputy leader Matt Robson, and former Internal Affairs Minister Richard Worth.

Both of those men were duped by Riaz Patel, the character at the centre of WSD.

Another Investigate story gets results…

Posted by iwishart on October 21, 2010 at 02:38 PM | Permalink

Digg This | Save to del.icio.us
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October 21, 2010 8:09pm

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