General Debate 20 October 2010

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Manolo

Could Zhumao and the Chinese ambassador be one and the same?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/opinion/letters-to-the-editor/4246900/Letter-Peace-prize-winner-is-a-criminal

The communist diplomat fails miserably at defending his paymasters.
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October 20, 2010 8:05am
OECD rank 22 kiwi

Who else is looking forward to the spending cuts about to be announced tomorrow in the UK?

Should be fun.
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October 20, 2010 8:06am
James Stephenson

@OECD. *Sigh* why can’t we have a blue team prepared to make tough decisions here? Sad to see the end of the Harriers with the scrapping of Ark Royal though, one seriously CAF piece of kit…
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October 20, 2010 8:12am
Murray

Where is the rabid mob of crusty commies picketing parliament to demand the sacking of that fat brown-neck racist Hawariwa?

Where is the RRC’s condemation?

Where is the applogy to New Zealand from the Maori?

Where is this coutries balls to call racist when they see racist and not just white men who dare make fun of people who are not white?
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October 20, 2010 8:16am
Inventory2

Agreed Murray; Joe Carolan and John Minto should be down at Parliament today with their megaphones and orange helmets demanding Harawira’s sacking, just like they did with Henry.
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October 20, 2010 8:27am
Murray

Fat chance, they’re just as racist themselves. Minto will picket a tennis player not because shes Israeli, but because shes Jewish. If she’d been a Muslim or Christian Israeli he would have stayed in bed.
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October 20, 2010 8:32am
stephen

Interesting development in tertiary education in the UK in a recent report that was commissioned by the last Labour government:

“Money will no longer go to institutions just for being there,” Lord Browne said. “Money will instead follow the student, meaning that student choice becomes the key principle in the system.”

http://chronicle.com/article/A-Proposal-to-Abolish-Tuition/124895/

Sounds fairly radical and from what they’ve done so far I would expect the coaltion to implement fair chunks of this report…
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October 20, 2010 8:36am
MikeNZ

Manolo (2,117) Says:
October 20th, 2010 at 8:05 am

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/10/17/AR2010101703364.html

Seems they are assisting Iran in building it’s Nukes.
But Obama can’t lay down the law because the US is beholden to China in it’s debt.

The U.S. official speaking anonymously said U.S. intelligence thinks that several Chinese companies have also been involved in providing restricted technology and materials to Iran’s military programs. He said that Chinese banks were found to be involved in these and other deals with Iran, and that these deals occurred both before and after the enhanced U.N. sanctions were approved in June.
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October 20, 2010 8:54am
Viking2

I read somewhere that the”Simpsons” have been researched by the Catholics and have been pronounced a Cathoilc Family.
Can’t find the article which wa in the Herald or stuff. One of you will.

Explains why I never liked the program.

If someone can find this article it will keep the rest of the chattering classes busy all day filling Gen Debate.
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October 20, 2010 9:22am
James Stephenson

Viking, I read that somewhere too, but I refuse to link to the Daily Mail…google “Simpsons Catholic” if you must.
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October 20, 2010 9:48am
Pauleastbay

Not bad from Bruce Shepard, perhaps a bit overly negative but not bad

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/blogs/stirring-the-pot/4249073/Its-a-wrap
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October 20, 2010 9:54am
wreck1080

This is bizzarre, from the UK…

A gay Saudi prince today faces a life sentence for beating and strangling his servant to death in the culmination of a campaign of “sadistic” abuse.
…
In court his lawyers tried to cover up evidence of his homosexuality.If he ever returns to his home country he faces the possibility of execution – not because of the killing but because being gay is a capital offence there.

Isn’t that strange, it is OK to kill someone , but never admit to being gay.
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October 20, 2010 10:22am
dime

Did anyone hear Cunliffe on ZB this morning? My god! Hosking cut him off and said something along the lines of “lets hope joyce and king are back next week”. he was pissed.

Labour need to keep cunliffe out there. talking down to people etc.

I’m not a violent Dime, but i wanted to crack the guy in the head this morning.
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October 20, 2010 10:29am
shady

Ha Dime! Totally agree – thought Cunliffe sounded like an absolute pratt!! I remember Helen Clark doing exactly the same thing to Jenny Shipley on a debate chaired by John Campbell. She (Helen) was so rude it put me off Labour totally – and have never voted for them since. Having said that, I had already been disgusted by the way she and Cullen had ousted Moore – and their supercillious way about publicly claiming the leadership. But the way Helen used to just talk over anybody that would oppose her – loudly – was brought to mind when listening to Cunliffe this morning. However, Helen used to get away with it – no one ever called her to account. Thankfully, Mike Hosking cut him off.

The other thing that I noticed in the interview, is that the current Labour mob are trying to shut down any call to account for their last 9 years in office and that the current government are trying to fix up the mess. On more than one occassion Cunliffe was saying – “oh but that was in the past – we are in the future now – what we did in the past is irrelevent now – we have changed”.

The unions are getting noisier as well, they are pissed off they (their party) are no longer in government and are going to make things as difficult as they possibly can. Regardless of the good of the country, the economy and the truth.
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October 20, 2010 11:02am
gravedodger

@ dime, 10 29, Cunliffe droned for almost the whole session and Tony Ryall barely managed to get a word in without Cunliffe’s vivezula in the microphone, Hosking should have cut his link as C was only rewriting history with his bullshit anyway.
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October 20, 2010 11:08am
Jack5

Beat this, free-market fundamentalists:

TheWall St Journal says Israel’s central bank chief, Stanley Fischer, is doing a great job in keeping the shekel under control by intervening in the currency market. Fischer, when No. 2 at the IMF, played a key role in dampening the effects of the Asian financial crisis about 13 years ago.

The WSJ reports that Fischer began buying US dollars in March 2008, when the global financial crisis was starting to snowball, and the buying was aimed at bolstering Israel’s then-low foreign reserves for tough times ahead, as well as depressing the shekel to help Israeli exporters.

“Since then, Mr. Fischer has led one of the world’s most aggressive interventions in currency markets. From mid-2008 to mid-2009, the bank snatched up US$100 million a day. It has continued at a furious pace, adding over US$7 billion to its reserves so far this year,” the Wall St Journal reports.

In mid-2008, the US dollar exchagned for about three shekels before strengthening against the Israeli currency amid the intervention. Through most of 2010, the US dollar was buying just under four shekels, through it has fallen back to around 3.6 shekels in recent weeks.

Israel’s foreign reserves stand at nearly US$70 billion, compared with US$29 billion before Mr. Fischer began buying.
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October 20, 2010 11:18am
kowtow

Funny thing is the Saudi will very likely be able to claim asylum at the end of his sentence and become a UK ,and therefor EU resident.

Some time ago when the Somali pirate thing started the Royal Navy were in a human rights conundrum about arresting and dealing with pirates. If they got to the UK apparently they could claim asylum! If they were put ashore in their own country then the UK would be abusing their human rights. The Telegraph covered the issue. Look it up.

It’s high time this shite was done away with.

The western world lacks common sense.
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October 20, 2010 11:37am
bereal

German Chancelor, Angela Merkel had the courage to say out loud that multiculturalism
has “utterly failed” in Germany. Referring i believe mainly to muslim immigration.
They dont integrate.

In New Zealand immigrants from many countries and cultures have and are assimilating
to become Kiwis to the benefit of us all.

What about muslims ?

Muslims in N.Z. who insist upon wearing muslim garb are first and foremost identifying
themselves as muslims.

Becomming Kiwis ? i dont think so.

Why do we need muslim immigrants ?
Lets continue with immigration, but lets leave muslims out of it.
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October 20, 2010 12:23pm
Redbaiter

We want to sell a NZ farm to these people??

—————————-

Zambian miners shot by Chinese managers

A backlash against China’s powerful presence in the Zambian economy has been triggered by an incident in which 11 miners were shot by Chinese managers.

Police said that the Chinese executives opened fire on workers protesting against poor pay and conditions at the Collum coal mine in the southern Sinazongwe province on Friday.

Eleven people were admitted to hospital with wounds to the stomachs, hands and legs, and two are understood to remain in a critical condition.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/zambia/8073443/Zambian-miners-shot-by-Chinese-managers.html
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October 20, 2010 12:31pm
grumpyoldhori

MikeNZ grow up boy, there is nothing the USA can do to stop China if they wish to even the odds up when it comes to nukes in the Middle East.
And let us not forget that Israel was going to use nukes on Cairo and Damascus at the start of the Yom Kipper war.

A warning from the USSR that Israel would get the same stopped that little scheme, and no the yanks would not get into a city swapping nuclear war with the USSR over Israel being taken out by a few nukes.
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October 20, 2010 12:42pm
Viking2

Just heard on the news. Tolley and co imploring the teachers to go back to the negotiating table. Next Breath and pearl of wisdon from the socialist hopeless Nats. is that they WILL NOT BE DOCKING THE TEACHERS PAY WHILE ON STRIKE ( 2 days so far) as a gesture of goodwill.

wtf. PAYING TEACHERS FOR BEING ON STRIKE.
BEING ON A STRIKE IS A WITHDRAWL OF YOUR LABOUR.
AS SUCH YOU ARE NOT ENTITLED (THERE’S THAT WORD AGAIN ), TO BE PAID.

Can someone higher up please tell Key,English, Tolley to harden up brfore these bloody teachers bring the house down.
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October 20, 2010 12:47pm
Viking2

“I was aware of the tall poppy syndrome [in New Zealand] but it is more significant than I envisaged . . . ”

He’s never said that before either.

“I get over-the-top annoyed when I see spin and lack of truth. I have zero tolerance for that. I don’t like to see people deli- berately misdirecting people.”

A kiwi said that?
Well no but a Canadian who has more influence in NZ thannearly every other Kiwi.

” His one criticism of his adopted home are the Kiwi traits of self-deprecation and negativity – what he calls our failure to celebrate strengths and successes.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/4252647/Fonterras-nice-guy-gets-tick-for-true-grit
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October 20, 2010 12:54pm
grumpyoldhori

(His one criticism of his adopted home are the Kiwi traits of self-deprecation and negativity – what he calls our failure to celebrate strengths and successes.)

What a load of bullshit, he wants kiwis to be like bloody yanks, shouting we are the greatest as their banking sector when down the shitter.
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October 20, 2010 1:21pm
camrun

@Redbaiter. Perhaps we should hire some of those Chinese executives to take over negotiations with the teachers? I’m sure they could get the PPTA to agree to the government’s offer.

In regards to farms though, I would assume the labour laws in New Zealand and the government’s ability to enforce them are somewhat superior to what exists in Zambia. Any workers on Chinese-owned farms would be protected. Also, in New Zealand, no one would would be forced to work for them; they can always find a job working for someone else.
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October 20, 2010 1:22pm
stephen

I read somewhere that the”Simpsons” have been researched by the Catholics and have been pronounced a Cathoilc Family.
Can’t find the article which wa in the Herald or stuff. One of you will.

Explains why I never liked the program.

It was a fairly light article. The most interesting thing about it was that the publication in question (the Vatican Daily or something) was quite approving of The Simpsons as it was one of the only shows on TV that often inserted religious discussion into various plots, and very often kept religion in our faces when it wasn’t a plot device. Or something along those lines.

The Simpsons aren’t Catholics though – was a whole episode once about Bart converting to Catholicism. Got Liam Neeson to voice the Catholic teacher-dude-guy.
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October 20, 2010 1:27pm
big bruv

Trev the Muss and Labour are obviously well aware that Flick Goff took a hiding in the house yesterday as they are running to the speaker at every chance today.

Every time Goff gets to his feet he embarrasses himself.

I predict that Trev will be chucked out by the time we reach question 10.
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October 20, 2010 2:13pm
Kris K

Redbaiter 12:31 pm,

We want to sell a NZ farm to these people??

Zambian miners shot by Chinese managers …

Yeah, unbelievable Red.
I personally believe we should cease any and all trade with corrupt regimes. But we should especially not allow such regimes to gain a foothold here in New Zealand, and most certainly not allow them to purchase our land. What are Key and co thinking even entertaining the possibility?

No doubt the UNHRC will be all over this atrocity in Zambia as we speak … bloody herd of pigs just flew by my window!
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October 20, 2010 2:35pm
big bruv

Why is Finlayson being so evasive around pubic access to the beach?

This is starting to concern me.
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October 20, 2010 2:46pm
Fletch

R.I.P Tom Bosley, who played Richie Cunningham’s dad on Happy Days.
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October 20, 2010 3:40pm
wat dabney

“We want to sell a NZ farm to these people??”

“I personally believe we should cease any and all trade with corrupt regimes.”

It’s safe to assume that neither of you buys anything made in China then?

Good for you for living according to your principles.
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October 20, 2010 6:05pm
Hurf Durf

I’m not the biggest fan of Thatcher in the world, but the childlike glee the progs display every time she sprains her ankle and winds up in hospital (as displayed in the thousands of Facebook pages possessed by idiots who don’t know how to use privacy controls) reminds me why I possess so much furious contempt for leftards.
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October 20, 2010 6:34pm
Manolo

Even the Europeans are disenchanted with the Messiah. http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,723814,00.html
Will it end in tears for the President on November 2?
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October 20, 2010 6:54pm
Hurf Durf

Manolo: nah. When push comes to shove the Euro’s social democrat sensibilities will overcome their ability to use reason and logic and go balls deep for the One again, which will make Ebola’s decision to stop subsidising Europe’s defence in 2012 even sweeter.
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October 20, 2010 7:02pm
nickb

I am not near a TV at the moment, does anyone know when the VSM bill debate is going to start? Im guna try stream it online
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October 20, 2010 7:04pm
Pete George

Why is Finlayson being so evasive around pubic access to the beach?

This is starting to concern me.

It’s starting to concern me what you are intimating here. Do you want all beaches to be nudist?
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October 20, 2010 7:17pm
dad4justice

Oh no nude maoris to guard our beaches. Fuck this I’m outta here mate!
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October 20, 2010 7:20pm
reid

“Why is Finlayson being so evasive around pubic access to the beach?”

BB, there was a clause in the existing Liarbore act that prohibited charging for access. Finlayson didn’t insert it in this one.

There’s a principle in statutory interpretation that can allow courts to interpret that if in this sort of case Parliament previously prohibited it but now doesn’t, it implicitly allowed it.

Calvert spotted it, good on her.

Who knows if there was anything behind it? Who knows if it was a hidden payback to the MP allowing them to take a charging case to court and win while Chris flung up his hands and said “who knew?”

Draw your own conclusions.

If it was, it certainly makes a mockery of the MP’s proclamation that its only being done because the Nats don’t trust iwi to do the right thing, doesn’t it.

I think what this whole thing underlines, is that it’s never been and never was about access, it’s about the ability to make money out of it, and not from the public, from the big marine users.
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October 20, 2010 7:50pm
Caleb

exactly reid.

we will most certainly not charge for access!!!

but on the low down and in the not so distant future…

coastal marine farms, saltwater users, gravel, iron sands, jettys, boat ramps, marina…. anything commercial…

they already pay the local council and now the local iwi are in for a slice. Compensation for the disturbance to ancient seafood collecting grounds, appeasment to the spirits and for the renewal of our corprate box and a new fleet of xr8’s.
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October 20, 2010 8:42pm
WebWrat

Extremely Important Article – Is China Still on the Communist Road?

http://gulagbound.com/6586/extremely-important-article-is-china-still-on-the-communist-road
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October 20, 2010 9:10pm
MikeNZ

It seems more of Europe is fighting back than I had thought.
http://www.spectator.co.uk/melaniephillips/6385874/grovelling-alone.thtml

accept the U K in Tower Hamlets.
And in the Sunday Telegraph, Andrew Gilligan continues to chronicle the remorseless takeover of an entire London borough, Tower Hamlets, by the radicals of the Islamic Forum of Europe using intimidation, infiltration and corruption:

According to one of its own leaflets, the IFE – based at the hardline East London Mosque in Tower Hamlets – wants to change the ‘very infrastructure of society, its institutions, its culture, its political order and its creed … from ignorance to Islam.’ The group is accused by one of the area’s Labour MPs, Jim Fitzpatrick, of infiltrating and ‘corrupting’ his party in a way similar to the Militant Tendency in the 1980s.

The response of other newspapers to what’s going on in Tower Hamlets? As far as I can make out, deafening silence. And what is the response of the rest of the British thinking classes to this and countless other signs of increasing Islamisation and Islamic radicalisation in Britain?
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October 20, 2010 10:18pm
Viking2

Time has arrived for Key and Findlayson to become fervently Nationalistic.
Seems the few are going to rule the many and cause Hobbit to hobble off to another country.
If ever there was an issue PR made to dissemble the unions control this is Gods gift to the National Party.
Its time they did exactly what the should and return the Contracts Act into Law and remove Unions collective bargaining rights and of course the Labour Parties funds with it. ( this would also quiet the teachers and other unreasonable unionists).

Its a win win for the Nat and ACT. Those people affected in a positive way, and that’s many more than just the Hobbit film makers, will never vote Labour and those die hard union types and those whose lives and attitudes are subject to and controlled by oversea’s unions were never ever National Voters anyway.

Check the bank account boys and muscle up like men. We cannot afford to let this go and continue to borrow and hope.

Hobbit looks headed overseas
By KIRAN CHUG, MICHAEL FOX and ANTONIO BRADLEY – The Dominion Post
Last updated 06:37 21/10/2010
Share

LATEST: The Hobbit seems set to be taken offshore, with the film’s producers due in New Zealand to begin preparations next week.

Sir Peter Jackson and the producers have been in a standoff with actors unions who have boycotted the Lord of the Rings prequels as they have agitated for a collective agreement.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/film/4255670/Hobbit-looks-headed-overseas

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10682015
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October 21, 2010 7:07am
wreck1080

The hobbit is gone.

I say good riddance to greedy actors , they can go back to their day jobs of flipping burgers.

F***k the union, they get nothing now, and a few greedy actors have just killed the NZ film industry .

Although , I wonder if the total production cost was the real reason. We rarely get the full story from the media.
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October 21, 2010 7:38am
slightlyrighty

The flow on effects from LOTR, in terms of jobs for truck drivers, income for cafe’s, tourism etc was huge. The impact it had on Brand NZ was fantastic.

A few greedy actors, egged on by an australian union that was operating here illegally, have cost this country billions while we are trying to work out of a recession. Jennifer Ward-Leeland and her Auckland based cohorts should hang their heads in shame.
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October 21, 2010 7:43am
Caleb

Im dodgy on the full story and i wouldnt be suprised if they were actually positioning for a greater tax advantage.
Which actors are we talking about, are the main actors not from abroad anyway?
Most other roles could be filled from the winz office.
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October 21, 2010 7:47am
slightlyrighty

Caleb…

The actors in question were primarily based in Auckland and fromted by Jennifer Ward-Leeland, but that is not the issue.

Go and rent the Return of the King, Skip to the end and read the end credits, after the actors is a list of New Zealand technical jobs which are now likely to go offshore. The money that was paid to these people, and to the caterers, truck drivers, motor home companies, helicopter pilots, drivers, make-up artists, IT staff and others is now not going into our economy, into our stores.

The GST take from that economic activity will be zilch, which affects our schools, hospitals and all those other things our tax dollars go towards.

The flow on effects from the increased tourism that we got from LOTR, and now will not get from the Hobbit, will cost jobs.

See the problem here?
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October 21, 2010 8:14am
slightlyrighty

I see Helen Kelly has called Peter Jackson “a Spoiled Brat”

That’ll do wonders for her support base.
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October 21, 2010 8:40am
lofty

It is becoming clearer by the day that the present upheaval in industrial problems, is part of a concerted & co ordinated effort to undermine the Govt.
It is about trying to swing the public mood to set a tone for Labours return to power & a union friendly govt.
I think they got their strategy wrong on this one though.
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October 21, 2010 8:57am
WebWrat

Absolute brain dead lefturd fruitloops.
Fuck there are some morons in this country.
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October 21, 2010 8:57am
Caleb

dont get me wrong, i dont fully understand the situation.
i hold only contempt for the unions and see them for what they are;
exactly the same as two companies colluding to fix prices.
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October 21, 2010 6:22pm

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