General Debate 18 October 2010

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Grant Michael McKenna

An angry dragon may eat you, but an angry woman is truly dangerous.
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October 18, 2010 8:06am
Yvette

Being second is to be the first of those who lose.
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October 18, 2010 8:14am
Brian Smaller

Praise day at even, a wife when dead, a weapon when tried, a maid when married, ice when ’tis crossed, and ale when ’tis drunk.
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October 18, 2010 8:17am
Monty

Every saturday morning as the kids head off to sprt they are reminded that second is the first loser.
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October 18, 2010 8:18am
Don the Kiwi

One day, a long long time ago, there was a woman who didn’t nag, moan or complain.

But it was a long time ago, and only for one day.
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October 18, 2010 8:19am
Nookin

If you subscribe to mediocrity you will lose at least 4 times in a row to Bangladesh
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October 18, 2010 8:27am
Manolo

One day, a long long time ago, there was a woman who didn’t nag, moan or complain.”

Probably such woman existed in the land of the unicorn and tooth-fairy. 🙂
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October 18, 2010 8:31am
Pete George

Every saturday morning as the kids head off to sprt they are reminded that second is the first loser.

They could also be reminded that for one to be able to win, another must lose. A lot can be learned from losing, as long as it doesn’t become a habit.
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October 18, 2010 8:31am
dad4justice

The psychologists are doing wonders for the pathetic blackcaps.
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October 18, 2010 8:36am
stephen

If you subscribe to mediocrity you will lose at least 4 times in a row to Bangladesh

I expected someone to lose a series in Bangladesh sometime, just sucks that it was us. A loss I can handle, but a whitewash is unacceptable. Granted two losses were by a combined handful of runs but we used to win those!
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October 18, 2010 8:40am
Nookin

They have psychologists? It takes a psychologist to tell an opening batsmen that you do not take a wild wog with your head in the air in the first over or so with a modest target and a brittle batting lineup? What it takes is a forceful explanation of the consequences – Donald Trump style
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October 18, 2010 8:42am
pdm

As far as the Black Caps are concerned this must be the end of the `Supreme Commander’ role for Vettori. Leave him as Captain, with a non voting selection role and let him get on with what he does best – organising things in the field and bowling. Where we go for the rest of the team is a problem which occurs every few years in NZ Cricket.

I know about these cycles because I have been following NZ cricket since the late 50’s and they are regular occurences.
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October 18, 2010 8:50am
Pete George

This is one way National can differentiate from Labour in a very positive way…

Turning science and technology from problem to opportunity
The word is that the Budget will not be a pre-election lolly scramble. That would trash Finance Minister Bill English’s restraint rhetoric. The alternative is to project into a second term an at least halfway convincing strategy for long-term better economic performance – that is, focus on opportunity.

…that brings us back to legacy. Gluckman, West and Mapp are putting to Key an opportunity.

It might be the wrong opportunity for Key, or just too risky or too hard. But small hints suggest he might (just conceivably) go for it. If he does, the 2011 Budget might (just conceivably) be his prime ministership’s defining day.

…if they have enough strength of character and don’t wimp out.
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October 18, 2010 8:58am
kowtow

Two entrance gates at heaven. One with a sign that said “hen pecked husbands”,the queue in front was huge.
The other gate had a sign “others”,here there was a lone man with shoulders hunched and a rather sad expression.
2 blokes in the hen pecked q got chatting ,wondering what the lone figure was about,so they called over.
“What are you doing in that queue?” The sheepish reply……
“My wife told me to stand here.”
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October 18, 2010 9:02am
nickb

Fuck!

4-0 whitewash by the Bangas….. fuck me
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October 18, 2010 9:05am
bhudson

Pete,

From Colin James’ piece you link to:

“Successive finance ministers have moaned at the private sector for spending much less than foreign counterparts – although this might be partly due to tax rules that make much research a capital item that cannot be expensed and so lead medium- sized companies to hide their research as expenses.”

There would seem to be a pretty simple place to start. And the more impact it would have on the tax take the more it would be likely to stimulate the investment they want (i.e. it would demonstrate that the current capitalisation requirements are a genuine barrier to investment.)
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October 18, 2010 9:06am
Viking2

Nickb; No matter how good looking you think you are, the answer will always be the same. NO THANKS.

NZ crickets problem is that it is still in a time warp at home. They still play 5 day cricket and try to select people to play 50 and 20 over stuff. Dofferent games and different types of players.

NZ cricket and the outfits that run cricket need to get into maximum promotion of 20 over games and find players who can do the buisiness. Sitting round filling in their days watching grass grow at 5 day matches doesn’t work any more. Its just beneficiaries on salary.
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October 18, 2010 9:22am
Chuck Bird

I could hardly believe the NZ Herald editorial. The Herald has actually said something positive about ACT. This change is obviously necessary however it is only a start. Backroom deals between National or Labour sometime in the future with the Maori Party must not be allowed. If Maori have a legitimate claim let the courts decide as would have been the case before Labour panicked and removed their right to access to the courts.

Does anyone know the estimated value of iron sands on New Zealand beaches?

Editorial: Beach access clause will ensure clarity

4:29 AM Monday Oct 18, 2010

The Act Party has suffered more than its share of self-inflicted wounds lately but it deserves credit for a valuable legislative intervention last week. At Act’s behest, the Government has agreed to write a clause into the foreshore and seabed bill now before Parliament that will expressly make it unlawful to charge for access to a beach.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=10681243
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October 18, 2010 9:32am
nickb

NZ cricket and the outfits that run cricket need to get into maximum promotion of 20 over games and find players who can do the buisiness. Sitting round filling in their days watching grass grow at 5 day matches doesn’t work any more. Its just beneficiaries on salary.

Viking, the 20/20 rubbish is yawn inducing for the true purists. I can’t stand the shit. Imagine dating Catherine Zeta Jones, and dumping her to use some of dimes hookers 🙂

That is in essence what 20/20 is
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October 18, 2010 9:35am
Yvette

“One day, a long long time ago, there was a woman who didn’t nag, moan or complain.”
Probably such woman existed in the land of the unicorn and tooth-fairy”

No, it must have been before the time of unicorns.
See: “The Unicorn In The Garden” – by James Thurber
http://brembs.net/metabiology/unicorn.html
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October 18, 2010 9:45am
bhudson

nickb,

Agreed, however the money is in the 20/20 game. Cricket is like any other business…

What we should be looking at is how we can be competitive at more than one form of the game. The Aussies can. While they have a larger population base to work with, our own rugby heritage would point to it not being all about size (of population) but the percentage of the populations that play & follow that sport. Cricket is our most poular summer sport I believe, so we should have enough raw talent to be able to shape a fundamentally competitive team.

Another key thing for our rugby pedigree was/is the quality of our domestic competition. In that area our cricket suffers immensely.

A simple (if we could get them to agree) step would be to get one or two NZ cricket teams into the Aussie domestic competitions – all forms of the game.
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October 18, 2010 9:52am
James Stephenson

Viking, the 20/20 rubbish is yawn inducing for the true purists.

T20 is cricket for people that don’t like cricket…
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October 18, 2010 9:54am
dime

nothing wrong with Dimes Dirty Hookers!

The black caps are dead to me.

PDM – hopefully you are right. Cause one again, player power has failed badly.
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October 18, 2010 10:00am
gravedodger

@ pdm 08 50 I also remember back to when the NZ test eleven was rolled by the England for 26 in an innings, and that was at the hand of an awesome, professional and balanced attack. This latest debacle is at the hands of an attack that after four games, One washed out, should have given any batsman with a modicom of analytical skill, plenty of opportunity to modify their approach, especially when the bowlers had delivered a very modest target of slightly over 3 per over. Why in the hell are they coming home for 10 days before going to India, just send (Sir) Gordon Tietjens over to kick their collective arses and those who dont like the physical approach can retire right now.
Glen Turner and Steve Rixon tried to instill a bit if self analysis and discipline and in the absence of adequate support from NZC were replaced as we embarked on a “Captains in Charge” approach that has failed at almost every turn. These self opinionated show ponies need a significant dose of HTFU allied with some personal responsibility or alternatively wind the whole embarrassing lot up and let those who want to hit a leather ball with a bat go and play softball at least those players know how to win and do it on a shoe string.
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October 18, 2010 10:08am
Inventory2

@ James – an alternative viewpoint is the T-20 is a game for people with ADD
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October 18, 2010 10:50am
nickb

Good article on TVNZ regarding the cricket, echos my thoughts completely

http://tvnz.co.nz/cricket-black-caps/max-bania-grading-black-caps-3839046
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October 18, 2010 11:07am
Fletch

Iranian man to have his hand chopped off for stealing chocolate . . .

An Iranian court has condemned a man convicted of robbing chocolates and cocoa from a Tehran pastry shop to have a hand chopped off, Fars news agency reported on Saturday.
Judge Mohammad Reza Giyuki, quoted in the report, also sentenced the 21-year-old man, whose identity was not revealed, to six months in prison for damaging the shop and another six months for “disobeying police.”

Fars said police arrested him on May 29 and found in his possession 900 dollars worth of cash, three pair of gloves, chocolate and cocoa.

The Islamic sharia laws of Iran lay down amputation as punishment for repeated thefts.

Cases of amputation have been increasing due to a rise in robberies on the back of growing poverty in Iran. Last week, Tehran amputated a hand of a man found guilty of two robberies in the northeastern holy city of Mashhad.

*shakes head* And there are people who think Sharia law is compatible with Western society?

“As for the thief, both male and female, cut off their hands. It is the reward of their own deeds, an exemplary punishment from Allah. Allah is Mighty, Wise.” — Qur’an 5:38.
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October 18, 2010 11:14am
bhudson

Stuff – “Inflation edges higher”

… to provide the lowest annual inflation figure since 2004!!!

“Inflation was up 1.1 per cent in the September quarter because of higher food prices and government charges, taking the annual rate to just 1.5 per cent, the lowest level since 2004.”

Let’s face it, our newspaper reporting is now different than the women’s magazines, except the newspapers aren’t printed on glossy paper.

They couldn’t possibly have a headline like “National Government delivers lowest annual inflation since 2004”
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October 18, 2010 11:25am
Ryan Sproull

*shakes head* And there are people who think Sharia law is compatible with Western society?

Who’s said that punitive amputation is compatible with Western society?
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October 18, 2010 11:48am
stephen

They couldn’t possibly have a headline like “National Government delivers lowest annual inflation since 2004″

I’d expect that more from the National Party monthly newsletter.
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October 18, 2010 11:54am
bhudson

stephen,

Why would that be? Because you only expect facts to be reported in that newsletter?
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October 18, 2010 12:02pm
Fletch

Who’s said that punitive amputation is compatible with Western society?

Ryan, no one. But there are 85 Sharia courts in Britain that operate behind closed doors, and there may soon be in other countries as well.

However, they operate behind doors that are closed to independent observers and their decisions are likely to be unfair to women and backed by intimidation, a report by independent think-tank Civitas said.

These courts are also considered legally binding in Britain.

Islamic sharia law courts in Britain are exploiting a little-known legal clause to make their verdicts officially binding under UK law in cases including divorce, financial disputes and even domestic violence.
A new network of courts in five major cities is hearing cases where Muslims involved agree to be bound by traditional sharia law, and under the 1996 Arbitration Act the court’s decisions can then be enforced by the county courts or the High Court.
Officials behind the new system claim to have dealt with more than 100 cases since last summer, including six involving domestic violence which is a criminal rather than civil offence, and said they hoped to take over growing numbers of ‘smaller’ criminal cases in future.
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October 18, 2010 12:13pm
Ryan Sproull

Hmmm. My libertarian side likes that they’ve volunteered to be bound by the law, but my sensible side would question just what constitutes “agreement to be bound by traditional sharia law” in the context. People could be opting out of the protection of the broader law of the land, under duress.

Would you like to be able to voluntarily submit to law within the law?

But you brought up punitive amputation under sharia law, said that there are people who say that sharia law is compatible with Western society, said that no one says that punitive amputation is compatible with Western society, and then brought up these sharia courts in Britain. Are they sentencing people to punitive amputation in those courts?
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October 18, 2010 12:27pm
stephen

bhudson,

I don’t pay a massive amount of attention to their headlines but I didn’t like the one you wrote out of feeling that it was just generally unnecessary.
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October 18, 2010 1:05pm
bhudson

stephen,

I think there is much to be gained out of informing the public with relevant facts. Admittedly the “National Government” part could be left out, but the lowest annual inflation since 2004 is a more relevant headline than the tiny monthly increase (which still brings the annual total under any other since 2004.)

It was somewhat disingenuous of Stuff to lead with that headline and report the positive news of the annual inflation figure only in the body of the report. That was my point (but of no surprise to commenters here I would think)
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October 18, 2010 1:10pm
joe90

So you’re against Beth Din too Fletch.
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October 18, 2010 1:14pm
stephen

It was somewhat disingenuous of Stuff to lead with that headline and report the positive news of the annual inflation figure only in the body of the report.

I suspect that has been the Headline Writer’s Way since time immemorial.
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October 18, 2010 1:22pm
joana

Thanks for continuing to highlight the barbarity of islam Fletch..I once watched a doco on islam in a particular part of Africa..there were a lot of young men who had had their hands amputated..this haunted me for ages..Saddam Hussein used to have people’s tongues cut out.
Angela Merkel recently said multiculturalism was a failure in Germany. She said something similar about two years ago , so what is she doing about it?
Any news on Geert Wilders trial?
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October 18, 2010 1:24pm
MT_Tinman

# pdm (616) Says:
October 18th, 2010 at 8:50 am

As far as the Black Caps are concerned this must be the end of the `Supreme Commander’ role for Vettori. Leave him as Captain, with a non voting selection role and let him get on with what he does best – organising things in the field and bowling. Where we go for the rest of the team is a problem which occurs every few years in NZ Cricket.

I know about these cycles because I have been following NZ cricket since the late 50′s and they are regular occurences.

You haven’t been following cricket very well for those 50+ years have you?

If you had you would have noted that the losses suffered in bygone years were team losses with players, while limited in skill, at least doing their best for the team.

The rabble currently purporting to represent NZ bear no semblance to a team at all.

If you watched last night you would have noted at the end of the Bangladesh innings the “captain” charged off the field leaving his players to wander off at their own pace.

Almost acceptable if the captain is an opener but a bloody disgrace from that cancerous bastard.

And if you think I sound bitter and twisted because this lot are destroying any credibility the NZ team in the sport I love had earned you’d be correct.
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October 18, 2010 2:05pm
Pete George

No surprise that Paul Henry complaints upheld by TVNZ.

In complaint responses issued today, TVNZ said that each broadcast had breached three standards. The standards breached were of good taste and decency, fairness and discrimination and denigration.

That applies to both the GG and the Dikshit comments. TVNZ had already made it clear they thought Henry had crossed the line substantially.
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October 18, 2010 2:43pm
OctagonGrappler

FLETCH!!!!!! You are a racist bigot. We need more muslims and more asians and ethnic minorities in this country as it will add more cultural yumminess and tolerance and diversity. My ways were changed until I had prof paul spoonley from massey university in 101 class. I was a bigot like you but paul convinced me that pakeha are bastards and we need an ethnic majority as they are more educated and tolerant unlike you sir.
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October 18, 2010 5:46pm
Tauhei Notts

Now, don’t tell me that Kiwibank are going to sponsor New Zealand cricket.
That is why I am switching to Kiwibank; I do not wish to patronise an outfit that would sponsor such a team of world leaders.
The New Zealand cricket team are world leaders because they have done what no other cricket team is likely to do for another forty years
“Get white washed by Bangladesh”.
Nobody can trust a bank that sponsors losers like that.
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October 18, 2010 5:51pm
joana

Now I understand why degrees from Massey are worthless. So you were brainwashed at Massey..How sad.
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October 18, 2010 5:54pm
Jimbob

joana all arts and farts degrees are the same, no matter what uni you go to. I have a cousin that went to Vic and one class she was in she had to stop going to, because the lecturer only talked about socialism and how good it was. It was a history class. Arts and farts, just crap degrees on socialism.
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October 18, 2010 7:23pm
Rex Widerstrom

Never fear, the Aussies have come to our aid. Aghast at being eclipsed in the “world’s mouthiest racist bogan” stakes by Paul Henry’s singlehanded effort, former PM and now Foreign Minister KRudd has been revealed as calling the UN Secretary General Spanky Banky.

Now what I really want to know is his monicker for Hulun.
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October 18, 2010 7:37pm
Viking2

I see the Mother of all Mother’s budgets has made another motherless budget disaster.

Delegat’s bids for Oyster Bay

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/4244580/Delegats-bids-for-Oyster-Bay
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October 18, 2010 7:59pm
nickb

Very interesting story:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/oct/18/man-gets-200-for-vasectomy

Should we call it the “David Garrett Charitable Trust”?
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October 18, 2010 7:59pm
MikeNZ

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=216541

Good old Chuck Norris. This quote from jefferson is poiniant to us too with the budget coming up.

Jefferson’s warning about government debt and taxes is more apropos now than ever before:

To preserve [the] independence [of the people,] we must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. We must make our election between economy and liberty, or profusion and servitude. If we run into such debts as that we must be taxed in our meat and in our drink, in our necessaries and our comforts, in our labors and our amusements, for our callings and our creeds, as the people of England are, our people, like them, must come to labor sixteen hours in the twenty-four, give the earnings of fifteen of these to the government for their debts and daily expenses, and the sixteenth being insufficient to afford us bread, we must live, as they now do, on oatmeal and potatoes, have no time to think, no means of calling the mismanagers to account, but be glad to obtain subsistence by hiring ourselves to rivet their chains on the necks of our fellow-sufferers.
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October 18, 2010 8:48pm
Pete George

Something else to worry about.

‘Ten years’ to solve nature crisis, UN meeting hears
The UN biodiversity convention meeting has opened with warnings that the ongoing loss of nature is hurting human societies as well as the natural world.

“We are now close to a ‘tipping point’ – that is, we are about to reach a threshold beyond which biodiversity loss will become irreversible, and may cross that threshold in the next 10 years if we do not make proactive efforts for conserving biodiversity.”

Better get stuck into diversing those bios.
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October 18, 2010 8:59pm
Fletch

Hey joana.

I think the Wilders trial is going quite well from what I can see. Not over yet though.

Friday came the good news: Amsterdam public prosecutors Birgit van Roessel and Paul Velleman declared Dutch freedom fighter Geert Wilders not guilty of discrimination against Muslims and inciting hatred against them. But his trial continues: the prosecutors’ decision is not final. A judge will issue a ruling on November 5, and he doesn’t have to follow the prosecutors’ recommendations. So the freedom of speech still hangs in the balance in the Netherlands, as well as in Europe and the West in general.

Nonetheless, van Roessel and Velleman brought an unexpected bit of common sense to this ridiculous and ominous show trial. Regarding Wilders’ much-trumpeted call to ban the Koran, the prosecutors said, according to Dutch News, that “comments about banning the Koran can be discriminatory, but because Wilders wants to pursue a ban on democratic lines, there is no question of incitement to discrimination ‘as laid down in law.’”

MORE
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October 18, 2010 9:27pm
Fletch

Octagon, you’re taking the Michael, right?
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October 18, 2010 9:34pm
pdm

mttinman (1066)

What you say about a lot of battlers through the 50 odd years is what I meant to infer. Which is New Zealand always struggles for depth but in the past and certainly the more distant past players have almost always `given their guts’ for the team. Players like John d’Arcy, Trevor Meale, John Sparling, Stephen Boock, Jumbo Anderson and so on.

Successful NZ teams have emerged whenwe have had a great bowler Hadlee and a great batsman Martin Crowe at the same time supported by a number of good international players like Wright, Edgar, Coney, Jeff Crowe, Ian Smith, John Bracewell etc. This current team has one very good player Vettori, three potentially very good batsment in renden McCullum and Taylor, Ryder what looks like a real up and comer in Williamson and a battler in former South African Elliott. The rest – battlers with no stomach for the fight.

Other teams which have succeeded 1962 in South Africa revolved around JR Reid, and in the Windies in 72 had Glenn Turner, Terry Jarvis and Graham Dowling and a very weak bowling opposition led by Sir Garfield Sobers who was past his best.

We had good results under Fleming who was the best captain in world cricket at the time and he lead a team which largely fought hard but at times was let down by the start of the prima donna era with Chris Cairns and Parore at the forefront.
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October 18, 2010 9:38pm
OctagonGrappler

Yes Fletch I was. I had spoonley last year and this guy basically called me a neo nazi for questioning multi cultralism and Islam this guy is really dangerous and he is funded by the UN Resetlement committee.
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October 18, 2010 9:56pm
Fletch

Octagon, wow, nasty. And it’s hard to argue with someone up the front of the class who has the mic and the attention of all the students etc. He is basically holding court and it’s hard for a student to get a message across.
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October 18, 2010 10:43pm
Luc Hansen

So Octagon, what’s your preference: monoculturalism?
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October 18, 2010 10:50pm
Fletch

Luc, I am not against multiculturalism per se, but it doesn’t work when one of the cultures has an ideology that is incompatible with the values of the country they are supposed to be integrating with. The ultimate goal of Islam is universal Sharia law, which is not compatible with our values in many ways, the least of which is their view and treatment of women. Did you know that 75% of women in prison in Pakistan are there because they have been raped? In Islam, a woman needs four male witnesses if she wants to prove that she has been raped. If not, she can be thrown in jail or worse. Recently a woman was stoned to death for just being seen out walking with a man. You can view it HERE

I’m only providing these examples to show that our values are not equal with many other nations and there is only so much we can do if they won’t integrate by sharing our values.
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October 18, 2010 11:03pm
Viking2

Parliament urged to make births safer

Apparently parliament can wave a wand and change human s and their behavoir and habits.
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October 19, 2010 6:42am
Viking2

Even more fun. Now if this was on TVNZ all the wingers and moaners and apologists and fascists would be out on the streets waving their despoiled flags. But this time it was in Parliament and Tau couldn’t give a toss. Great stuff and We could do with more of his attitude around.

Mr Sleep said he expected Mr Henare to say sorry. “The letter did not contain an apology to the thousands of young union members I was representing, nor have we – the CTU youth sector – received a personal apology direct from Tau Henare.”

Mr Henare said he would not apologize. “Why would I apologize for a little turkey who got found out lying? He was reading out a submission and I was following it and in two parts … it was a completely different story.

“He’ll get over it and if he doesn’t, well, then, too bad … He’ll learn from his experience.”

He added: “Conway and his henchmen weren’t even there, so how could they complain?”

Labour MP Carol Beaumont, who sits on the committee, said she was concerned about how Mr Sleep was treated.

“Leaping into accusing somebody of lying and in quite an aggressive manner, I don’t think is appropriate.”

Mr Henare responded: “Quite frankly, who cares what Carol Beaumont says.”

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/4246439/MP-accused-of-bullyboy-tactics
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October 19, 2010 6:49am
Pete George

The ultimate goal of Islam is universal Sharia law…

That doesn’t mean all Muslims share the goal, there is a chance those that immigrate here do so because they prefer our form of justice. Most Christians and it seems most Muslims here manage to balance their religious practices with a Kiwi way of life. There are more and stronger calls in NZ for our justice to reflect biblical rather than Sharia law, but most understand neither is acceptable in our modern age.

The “ultimate goals of Christianity”, including justice and laws, haven’t been very flash over the ages, fortunately now they have mostly reformed. Some Christians sound like reformed smokers – “I have kicked my filthy habit, now you should too”.

I’ve got no problem arguing against parts of Sharia Law and particularly against barbarity and inequality directed against women. But we don’t have that here, and any immigrant should be aware of that, and be grateful for it.
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October 19, 2010 7:42am
Fletch

Pete, I do agree with a lot of what you say. I am not suggesting that all Muslims are radical or that Muslims as a group should be persecuted. BUT as Robert Spencer says –

But the number of terrorist sympathizers in Muslim countries is
considerable. Middle East analyst Daniel Pipes estimates it as between
100 million and 150 million people.75 This doesn’t mean that the remaining
850 to 900 million Muslims around the world are all peace-loving.

Granted, people find it wearying to live in a state of constant conflict,
and so they settle down to lead ordinary lives. But in Islam, ordinary life
can always be disrupted by the call of religion. Radical Muslims have at
times treated nonradicals as one large sleeper cell that can be activated
by a summons to the full practice of their religion. This is illustrated by
a chilling story from the Ottoman Empire of the late nineteenth century:

Then one night, my husband came home and told me that the padisha
had sent word that we were to kill all the Christians in our village, and
that we would have to kill our neighbours. I was very angry, and told him
that I did not care who gave such orders, they were wrong. These neighbours
had always been kind to us, and if he dared to kill them Allah would
pay us out. I tried all I could to stop him, but he killed them—killed them
with his own hand.76

In this light, the number of terrorists and their sympathizers is
likely to grow beyond Pipes’ 100 to 150 million. In a very real sense this
group is what the less militant majority considers to be the conscience
of the umma. They are the people who actually dare to do what Allah
said to do, whatever the cost. The average Muslim can easily find enough
in the Qur’an at least to discourage him from condemning them. He can
read that the holy book instructs him to kill unbelievers, and conclude
that Khomeini, bin Laden and the like are the true Muslims, just as they
claim to be.

For all too many, being a serious Muslim means doing Allah’s work
by any means necessary. Of course, most Muslims will never be terrorists.
The problem is that for all its schisms, sects and multiplicity of voices,
Islam’s violent elements are rooted in its central texts. It is unlikely that
the voices of moderation will ultimately silence the militants, because
the militants will always be able to make the case that they are standing
for the true expression of the faith. Liberal Muslims have not established
a viable alternative interpretation of the relevant verses in the Qur’an.
“When liberal Muslims declare that Sept. 11 was an atrocity contrary to
the Koran,” observes Farrukh Dhondy, “the majority of Muslims around
the world don’t believe them. They accept the interpretation of fundamentalists,
whom liberal Muslims have allowed to remain unchallenged.”
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October 19, 2010 10:44am
OctagonGrappler

Luc

So Octagon, what’s your preference: monoculturalism?

YES LUC it is.
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October 19, 2010 6:47pm

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