General Debate 16 October 2010

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bhudson

Good morning and welcome to another episode of “The World is Going to Hell.”

In this episode we look at the unemployed man who is using taxpayer funds to set up an office in Wellington to promote the virtues of being unemployed…

http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/arts/4239839/Artist-paints-noble-picture-of-dole

And why is the world going to hell? Is it because:

– Someone might think it is virtuous to be unemployed and live off the backs of hardworking citizens while offering nothing of value back to those that pay your way? NO
– Someone might think that deliberating exploiting the welfare system is not bludging? NO
– Someone might think that a reduction in personal carbon footprint through reduced consumption due to the reduced earning of the unemployment benefit is a feasible reason why others should fund their living? NO
– That not liking a job is a good reason for not seeking one and living off other peoples’ money? NO
– That Creative NZ has given the individual $45,000 of our money to fund this office and plan of his? NO

No. The world is going to hell because it is still possible to obtain a masters degree and not have a clue about the realities of what you are campaigning against.

Let us help Mr Wells…

The unemployment benefit is not a fundamental human right. It is a benefit our governments elect to keep in place as a temporary measure to help people to live while they are finding work

As it is a privilege extended by the government they are able to place some terms and conditions around the receipt of it. Which they do.

The conditions include actively seeking work and accepting work that you are capable of performing. Alas Mr Wells, unbridled delight, or even any enjoyment of the job, does not form part of those terms and conditions.

So, aside from any argument you might think you could raise to support your viewpoint, the terms and conditions of the government-extended temporary privilege trump anything you might like to share.

However, all is not lost for you Mr Wells. This is a free society and we would never wish to deny you your rights.

You are free to eschew both work and the benefit. You may go on your merry way refusing to do any work you might choose. Of course, you will have to do so without any benefit or other form of government funding.

You might find things a tad difficult in the real world.
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October 16, 2010 9:52am
Inventory2

Wells misses one important point. If, like him, everyone rejected work in favour of unemployment, there would be no tax take, and no pot of gold from which to pay unemployment benefits. What he advocates is the equivalent of cutiing off the nose to spite the face.

http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2010/10/give-us-strength-ii.html
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October 16, 2010 9:52am
Viking2

TOO slow IV2. Try again another day!

The best piece of journalism I have read on The Henry Freedom of Speech debate.

It’s not really freedom if you can only say things which are respectful and don’t offend.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/social-issues/news/article.cfm?c_id=87&objectid=10680477
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October 16, 2010 9:54am
gravedodger

Only equal at the moment I2 now for a shootout
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October 16, 2010 9:55am
Inventory2

Just another point on Wells; full marks to WINZ for their quick and decisive action in cutting the clown’s benefit. It would appear that Paula Bennett has her staff on their toes …
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October 16, 2010 9:58am
Viking2

I was going to post another joke this morning and then I read this.

Not quite sure if this is a joke or just really sad.

Would you like fries with your wife?
7:10 AM Saturday Oct 16, 2010

Couples will be able to get married at McDonald’s restaurants in Hong Kong from next year.

McDonald’s says it has decided to offer the service because of public demand.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10680920
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October 16, 2010 10:00am
Sofia

I have commented on Chris Carter’s website http://carter.org.nz/?p=1613
” “Three months ago a journalist called me and revealed that Phil Goff’s office had leaked details of my travel expenses again to the Press Gallery. I had not even received these figures myself. I flipped out and in anger and poor judgement lashed back.”
Mr Carter, you must have on file the dated document which informed you of the travel expenses to which you refer, and the date when this was made public through the leak you claim. I challenge you to publish these dates here so we may see the validity of what you say.”

Sofia: October 16, 2010 at 9:00 am Your comment is awaiting moderation.

I await the wiping of the comment or a response.
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October 16, 2010 10:00am
Viking2

This one is for Dime.

“ I was in bed with my new girlfriend last night, and she said I had the biggest dick she’d ever laid her hands on”

I said “You’re pulling my leg”
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October 16, 2010 10:03am
gravedodger

Alas bhudson Wells chooses to treat your position with arrogant contempt and an army of soft cocks will champion his thievery. Maybe a system that has a time limit on the Unemployment benefit and in a case such as this little act of theft, a lifetime ban on access to the welfare system.
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October 16, 2010 10:04am
mattyroo

Can anyone tell me where this stupid fucking word “Pasifika” comes from? It has no definition in any dictionary of respect.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/4240170/Racist-remark-hurt-Pasifika-winners

I would have to assume that the appalling state of our media is because they’ve employed a bunch of “dum nigga homies”*.

*Before all you left footed lesbian liberals scream racism, I am just literating what these people call themselves.
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October 16, 2010 10:09am
Viking2

Dollar hits parity with US greenback

* From: AAP
* October 16, 2010 12:00AM

THE Australian dollar has reached parity with the US dollar for the first time since the currency was floated in December 1983.

The local currency rose to $US1.00 at about 11.18pm AEDT in overseas trading last night.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/dollar-hits-parity-with-us-greenback/story-e6frg8zx-1225939442293

This ain’t good for us as we ride on their shirt tails.
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October 16, 2010 10:10am
bhudson

I2 – yes. Full marks to WINZ on that.

The next step is that Creative NZ needs to be taken to task. It is inappropriate use of their taxpayer funds to dole out money for projects like Wells’.

“Under the Crown Entities Act 2004, Creative New Zealand is an autonomous Crown entity, and as such must have regard to government policy when directed by the responsible Minister, the Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage.

The Council carries out its statutory functions with funds provided by the Government through Vote: Arts Culture and Heritage and the New Zealand Lottery Grants Board, and is accountable to the responsible Minister.”

The Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage should take immediate and decisive action on this. It will be interesting to see the mettle of Chris Findlayson.
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October 16, 2010 10:13am
Viking2

Note to Anne Tolley. Call Anna Blyth for an update on what next to do.

Teacher entry scores targeted in bid to lift classroom standards

* by Tanya Chilcott
* From: The Courier-Mail
* October 16, 2010 12:00AM

QUEENSLAND’S teaching profession is facing a crackdown on university entrance standards in a bid to boost quality in the classroom.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/teacher-entry-scores-targeted-in-bid-to-lift-classroom-standards/story-e6freoof-1225939393893
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October 16, 2010 10:14am
bhudson

gravedodger,

A sensible plan. And therefore unlikely to receive any real consideration. Not only are they funded to rort the system, the penalty for flagrantly ignoring it is a slap on the wrist with a wet bus ticket.

He will have his benefit suspended and will have to find work. But he need only work for a short time before he will entitled to receive the benefit again – even easier if he goes back to ‘study’ instead.
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October 16, 2010 10:18am
Yvette

Weels – unemployment
“… Wells denied his pro-unemployment stance was hypocritical when he was being paid $2000 for the project.
– Dom Post

Given today’s media standards the $ 2000 figure may be wrong.
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October 16, 2010 10:19am
Inventory2

@ bhudson – indeed. In my blogpost, I have opined that there needs to be a “please explain” letter waiting on CNZ’s head honcho’s desk first thing Monday morning.
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October 16, 2010 10:19am
mattyroo

Viking, re the currency: Whilst I agree to a certain extent, it’s certainly not as bad as it could be with our currency at the moment.

We’re a long way off our recent time high of 84cents (from memory), against the USD, in 2007, and also, we’re at a relatively low point, historically speaking, against the AUD of 76cents, hasn’t been this low for just over 10 years.

It’s much worse for Aussie exporters than it is for us currently.

Good for me, as I buy in USD and sell in AUD, and all my profit comes back here in NZD.
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October 16, 2010 10:20am
Viking2

Mattyroo. hadn’t been taking much notice except the Aussies all crowing about their dollar.
Wondered for years why anyone would bother with the US$ for trading. Just another middle man making a quid.
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October 16, 2010 10:24am
joana

An average of 10 muslim women self immolate every month in Afghanistan ; world wide over a hundred a month. Why? They no longer wish to live as slaves under islam.
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October 16, 2010 10:24am
mattyroo

Yes, the way the Aussie MSM portrays the reaching of parity with the USD, one could be forgiven for thinking that it is a good thing. Thankfully you don’t have to go far to find decent business coverage in Oz, with the AFR and the Australian/WSJ.

Unlike the dismally useless business media we have here in NZ, maybe they use the same fuckwits who think Pasifika is a word to write their business stories.
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October 16, 2010 10:28am
nickb

Wells.. .what a fucking scumbag. This idiot has a 4 year olds understanding of economics:

“We need to work less, so we consume less. The average carbon footprint of the unemployed person is about half of that of those earning over $100,000.” “We should never be forced to take a job. If you’re forced to take a job it’s a punishment. If a job’s a punishment then society must be a prison.”

It amazes me how a huge amount of New Zealanders think that benefits and other forms of government handouts come from a pot of money which John Key is greedily hiding in his office and refusing to share with others. I am not saying this as a joke either, it is actually true. There are a huge number of kiwis out there that don’t even know their money comes from the rest of us.

Boy will I smile if I am walking through Wellington and this guy is begging on the street…. sadly he probably knows his way to game the system to well to end up like that.
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October 16, 2010 10:31am
reid

“We should never be forced to take a job. If you’re forced to take a job it’s a punishment. If a job’s a punishment then society must be a prison.”

So this is Wells’ logic. Hopefully someone’s explained to him that in the field of reality if your premise is crap it invalidates the entire argument.

And this guy is going to set himself up in Manners Mall over the next week ready to take on all-comers in a battle of wits over whether society is or is not a prison.

I hope CreativeNZ have set aside something to pay for his counselling afterward for I fear he’s going to need it. I even wonder if he’ll bother turning up on Tuesday.
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October 16, 2010 10:38am
backster

I see that one of the first actions of the new all inclusive Lord Mayor of Auckland was to appoint a Chief Political Adviser presumably to lord it over subordinate Political Advisers.. The new Mayor of Wellington has yet to announce such an appointment and I would like to make myself available (if Toad hasn’t already beaten me to it). Does anyone know the job description and whether an entitlement to a credit card goes with the position.?
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October 16, 2010 10:39am
mattyroo

Yep nickb, I had a stupid, stupid islander woman taxi driver the other day that could not comprehend that her welfare for families payments came from me and you…. She insisted the payments ultimately came from the IRD, “because they are in charge of money, and therefore print more when we need more”.

I left that taxi shaking my head in utter disbelief. Whilst we have this level of economic understanding in NZ we are doomed for mediocrity. Not everyone needs to be Nassim Taleb, but a basic appreciation of how money is created would be the start of a step change in NZ.
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October 16, 2010 10:42am
Inventory2

@ mattyroo – she’s obviously been listening to Obama!

@ bhudson (10.18am) – Wells might not find it quite so easy to get future benefits. I am sure that the publicity over this case will see a red flag inserted next to his name on the WINZ system, and that any future applications he makes for money to help him escape from “slavery” will be gone though with the proverbial fine-toothed comb.
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October 16, 2010 10:52am
nickb

She insisted the payments ultimately came from the IRD, “because they are in charge of money, and therefore print more when we need more”.

HAhaha. It is sadly and surprisingly common. Our society need to be purged of cases of bludging from the likes Wells and the “political busker” wanker.

If anyone is in Wellington you should go down and give this balding hippy a serve
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October 16, 2010 10:56am
bhudson

Labour to shake up benefit system – Stuff.

Headline grabbing – but unsurprisingly, here, “shake up” means spend more…

” Policy papers released last night said significant changes are needed in economic and social policy, indicating Labour is prepared to go outside its usual settings.

There are indications it will raise taxes for higher income earners while cutting the rates for those at the bottom.”

Annette King will do a reveal all [they want you to hear] on this subject today apparently

Tax and spend. And spend again. And again. And again.
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October 16, 2010 10:59am
jaba

oh noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo Winstons back .. just mentioned on The Nation. They also have Russ Norman, Len Brown and the Wgtn Greenie Mayor.
The also have the Redalrts caption competition photo .. mmmm, I sense the program really does lean left
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October 16, 2010 11:03am
nickb

There are indications it will raise taxes for higher income earners while cutting the rates for those at the bottom

Aren’t they clueless? I wonder how many people in the top tax bracket would define themselves as liberals (i.e the teacher/principal/union set) and would normally be Labour voters, but would be turned off them by the prospect of an extra $100 per week being taken from them.

Who on earth is writing Labour’s policies? The phrase “monkeys with typewriters” comes to mind.
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October 16, 2010 11:08am
Inventory2

@ nickb – every member of the Principal’s Federation, for starters. I wonder how many of them will be willing to “take one for the team” 🙂
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October 16, 2010 11:11am
Fletch

joana, from the BBC yesterday

A 23-year old woman has died after she was found on fire in the back garden of a house in Bradford, police have said.

West Yorkshire Police and fire crews were called to a property on Cloudsdale Avenue, south of the city centre, at 1915 BST on Thursday.

A force spokesman said the woman, who was found “alight”, was pronounced dead at the scene.

Police said the death was being treated as suspicious and forensic science experts remained at the scene.

A post-mortem examination is to take place later.

Shocked neighbours in the quiet cul-de-sac told BBC News that the dead woman had lived in the street for about a year after moving from Pakistan to live with her in-laws.

They described the local community as close-knit where all the families knew one another.

On Friday, two police officers were at the scene where several houses were taped off at the end of the street.

The woman was pronounced dead at the scene in the back garden of the house
Aziza Kahn, who lives nearby, said she believed the woman was pregnant and lived at the property with her husband, mother-in-law and two sisters-in-law.

She said: “We never saw her. There was a time we were quite close to that family, but not now.

“We didn’t know her, we never got to talk to her.

“You never saw her with her husband, never ever saw them together.

“She was a young girl, we thought she was about 17 or 18, and she was pregnant.”

Another neighbour, Rahana Kosar, said she believed the woman had been in the UK for less than a year but that she rarely came out of the house.

“I’ve heard she’s an Asian lady and I don’t think her parents are in this country,” she said. “We’re all Asians round here but she never came out the house.”

The police do say it was suspicious though. It was probably an “honor killing”. Maybe they didn’t know she was pregnant when she arrived. Another page HERE shows the results of Sharia law on women (WARNING: contains graphic images of women disfigured by acid and noses cut off).
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October 16, 2010 11:45am
tristanb

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10680963

This judge Semi Epati seems to be a bit of a fuck-up. He seems to do a bit too much free-form judging but without the intelligence to do it very well.
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October 16, 2010 11:47am
Nigel Kearney

Why isn’t anyone standing up for the guy who got sent home from the Commonwealth games for having a couple of beers after his event was finished? That is a much bigger outrage than Paul Henry or anything else in the news. I say cut all government funding to swimming until the people responsible apologise and resign.
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October 16, 2010 12:12pm
Yvette

BREAKING NEWS: The Hobbit has finally been given the greenlight and will be made in 3-D with Sir Peter Jackson in the director’s chair.
Shooting will begin in February.
The announcement was made today jointly by New Line Cinema – which bankrolled The Lord of the Rings – and its parent company Warner Bros.
The announcement did not state whether the two part prequel to The Lord of the Rings would be shot in New Zealand
– stuff

This probably gives Jackson all the cards to play whatever way he wants.
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October 16, 2010 12:24pm
Inventory2

@ Nigel; probably because he is a serial offender. This is the third alcohol-related incident for him in just over two years. The inescapable conclusion is that Daniel Bell has a bit of an issue with alcohol, and the swimming team is right to put boundaries around him.
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October 16, 2010 12:31pm
Pete George

The Swiss system of referenda influenced government is often praised. A high cost people approved project has just achieved a milestone:

Swiss celebrate world’s longest tunnel breakthrough

Swiss voters approved the tunnel’s construction in a series of referenda almost 20 years ago. Despite some criticism at the cost – almost US$1300 for every citizen – the proposal passed by a wide margin.

There was delight at the end of the tunnel – the world’s longest – when it was completed on Friday.

The €9.6 billion (NZ$17.8bn), 57-kilometre tube will connect Europe’s high-speed rail network and is part of a larger effort to cut in half the number of trucks – now at 1.2 million – that thunder through the Alps each year.

Auckland harbour tunnels aren’t so grandiose, or expensive. A major aim of the Swiss tunnel is to keep trucks off the roads.
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October 16, 2010 12:34pm
joe90

Fletch, Terrorism that’s personal is a photo essay that nearly brought me to tears. These atrocities aren’t confined to the Islamic world, India and Asia, a man was sent to prison in the US for the acid attack on his estranged wife. Here is her story and a link to the Acid Survivors Trust International.
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October 16, 2010 12:47pm
joana

yes gruesome Fletch..only a matter of time before it is happening here.
on another topic..of where ”things” in NZ come from , I have heard newly arrived Asians say ” EVERYTHING is free in NZ. ”
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October 16, 2010 12:52pm
Rodders

Speaking of TV3’s The Nation, today’s item on Winston Peters and his followers was very funny (the humour being unintentional, of course).
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October 16, 2010 1:14pm
Jimbob

Yes the Aussie dollar hit parity last night after Benanke gave a speech that everyone knew what was in it before hand. Parity lasted for a few minutes then the Aussie fell over a cent. There may be one more high then that will be it. Most of the debt in the World is in US dollars. So when the next crunch hits, just around the corner, borrowers will need to buy US dollars to pay off debt. I know no one here believes this as 97% of the Western World believes the US dollar is toast. Remember the currency market is a zero sum game.
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October 16, 2010 1:27pm
Roflcopter

lmao… Andrew Little at Labour Party conference, talking about the Paul Henry event…

”One thing is certain about Phil – if he were confronted with a racist outburst he would know it and challenge it, up front, there and then.”

What was Goff’s comments at the time?

“It’s just Paul Henry being Paul Henry”

What a complete bunch of fuckwits. (yay for demerits I guess, but worth it)
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October 16, 2010 2:30pm
Viking2

That must be 30 for you as well.!

Perhaps we should report David Farrar to DPF for his post.
Like just for fun.
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October 16, 2010 4:58pm
Viking2

Everyday I am bewildered by the crass stupidity of govt and its minions, but particularly Ministers. Mostly they just seem to be plain thick. Unable to grasp even basic motivations of people and understand what their attitudes(the politicians here), and their policies do to people.
What is it the makes it so difficult to understand that if you disenfranchise young people from the workforce by forcing employers to pay more wages than the worth of the work an individual at a young age then that makes the young people unemployed. Businesses are not a Dept of Govt. there to satisfy the need for politicians to overpay everyone they can. Businesses are there to make money for shareholders and until the Govt. and its Ministers get their heads out from under their pillows employers in the form of businesses are simply not going to pay 16 year old children adult rates to do the work.
Not the fault of youth at all, but the result of some twisted logic from Sue Bradford and the unions that apparently the National Party, from Key down, have accepted as National Party Policy and adopted as their own. Bennett shows even less understanding and exemplifies the conditioning that is surreptitiously promoted in the Universities and places of higher education that she and others attended rather than actually doing any work.

When will we get a Minister or indeed anyone, in this Govt., that both understands a very simple issue without pandering to the socialists, and who has the gumption, indeed the integrity to make changes to allow young people their rights to be involved and successful in a workplace.

When we do there will be no need for this new govt dept.

Plan to chase leavers as school ends
By Simon Collins
5:30 AM Saturday Oct 16, 2010

A new national service looks ready to start next year to make sure every 16- or 17-year-old ends up in work or further training after leaving school.

Under the plan, driven jointly by Social Development Minister Paula Bennett and the Mayors Taskforce for Jobs, contact details for all 16- or 17-year-old school-leavers will go to to a national call centre.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10680859
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October 16, 2010 5:15pm
reid

Sorry Viking2 I’m not understanding something. What’s the issue with this? Seems to be a good idea or have the lefties got into my subconscious and are secretly manipulating my thought patterns?
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October 16, 2010 5:37pm
Pete George

Mary MacKillop is becoming a saint. It sounds like she was well regarded, but I really wonder about the “miracles” she is supposed to be responsible for:
1. Healed a woman of terminal leukemia in 1961
2. Curing a woman of inoperable lung and brain cancer in 1993

“As far as the church is concerned, there has to be some proof that she has reached heaven and that she can intervene”.

MacKillop died in 1909. No problem with recognising what she achieved in her lifetime, but how out of touch with reality is this mumbo jumbo?
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October 16, 2010 5:46pm
WebWrat

I’ve been wondering what pandering to the ragheads will do to our export market.

Sign of the times?

http://barenakedislam.wordpress.com/2010/10/15/you-wouldnt-treat-a-muslim-this-way/
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October 16, 2010 5:50pm
WebWrat

Top American Islamic Cleric Threatens U.S. on Egyptian TV

http://doctorbulldog.wordpress.com/2009/01/07/founder-of-islamic-american-university-caught-on-video-threatening-destruction-for-america/
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October 16, 2010 5:52pm
Lucia Maria

Pete

MacKillop died in 1909. No problem with recognising what she achieved in her lifetime, but how out of touch with reality is this mumbo jumbo?

Don’t you believe in miracles?
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October 16, 2010 6:20pm
WebWrat

A woman from Auckland who was a tree hugger, Greens supporter, and an
anti-hunter, purchased a piece of bush land near Coromandel.

There was a large Kauri tree on one of the highest points on the block. She wanted
a good view of the natural splendor of her land so she started to
climb the big tree. As she neared the top she encountered a mynah bird that attacked her. In her haste to escape, the woman slid
down the tree to the ground and got many splinters in her crotch.

In considerable pain, she hurried to Thames Hospital to see a doctor.
She told him she was an environmentalist, a Greenie, and an anti-hunter
and how she came to get all the splinters. The doctor listened to her
story with great patience and then told her to go wait in the examining
room and he would see if he could help her.

She sat and waited three hours before the doctor reappeared.. The
angry woman demanded, “What took you so long?”

He smiled and then told her, “Well, I had to get permits from the Department of Conservation, Resource Management Act, County Council, Regional Authority and Iwi before I could remove old-growth timber from a
recreational area. I’m sorry, but they turned me down.”

God save NZ !
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October 16, 2010 7:09pm
Viking2

# reid (5,166) Says:
October 16th, 2010 at 5:37 pm

Sorry Viking2 I’m not understanding something. What’s the issue with this? Seems to be a good idea or have the lefties got into my subconscious and are secretly manipulating my thought patterns?

Obviously!

The nonsence is that if the Govt. got rid of the minimum adult wage as it applies to 16 yr olds the 16 yr olds would get employed by employers who could afford to train them. Not fucking rocket science. Well I don’t think so.
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October 16, 2010 7:12pm
Pete George

That doesn’t sound like miracles to me Lucia. I guess it would be a miracle of someone who was dead for that long could cure someone but it’s fantasy.
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October 16, 2010 7:45pm
big bruv

And right about now a halfback is being selected for the All Black tour, five mins ago he was not in the team, he is now!

Say what you like about Piri Wepu, but when he breaks a leg he does it properly, man that HAD to hurt.
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October 16, 2010 8:39pm

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Stats Chat
Tory Whanau may have to sell Wellington mayoralty to make ends meet
The Civilian
The Accidental Engagement
Imperator Fish
Legal Beagle: Election '23: The Special Votes
Public Address
Making this movie might have been a mistake
Liam Hehir
Why I am retiring from political blogging
Kiwi FireWalker
Angie Warren-Clark: Meet the Newbies
Dan Moskovitz

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