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October 1, 2010 8:00am by David Farrar

General Debate 01 October 2010

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Lucia Maria

Bereal,

I am awake. After years of blogging about all this stuff (since 2003 see the old Sir Humphrey’s), I’ve realised the best thing I can personally do is stay home and look after the kids. And go to church. The more of us that do this, the faster things will change for the better.
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October 1, 2010 7:43pm
bereal

Here are Reid and Mnij dragging their red herrings.
Its not complicated.
Whats with these Quislings ?
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October 1, 2010 7:44pm
bereal

To get back on message.
I’m talking about vote rigging.
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October 1, 2010 7:45pm
eszett

# Lucia Maria (360) Says:
October 1st, 2010 at 7:26 pm

Well, I stay home and look after the kids and go to church, but I don’t live in a cave and can’t see the similarity myself.

Naturally, Lucia, but you have the right to chose so.
To say ALL women have to behave like that and that it is the only way to save us, is going back to the caves.

The very same way a fundamentalist greenie can choose not to use modern technology, cars and airplanes if he wishes to do so. But to say everyone has to do the same otherwise we are doomed is insane.

To say that “religious fundamentalism and patriarchy” is a desired solution is leading us back to the caves by cavemen.

And if you wish to submit yourself to a patriarchy and take the role that you believe is meant for you. feel free to do so. The same way Muslim women freely and happily submit to their men and wear a burka because they believe that it is what is meant for them.

You’ll find that the arguments about what the role of all women in society should be and why is very similar between fundamentalist Muslims and Christians. They are brothers in arms against any kind of rights to women.

If anything religions can agree upon, it is that women should be given a hard time.
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October 1, 2010 7:52pm
Lucia Maria

Bereal,

Vote rigging, huh?

I was making a comment about the article posted this morning by MikeNZ (and posted last night by Jack5 on yesterday’s GD) with a reference to what eszett said at 3:31 about living in caves.
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October 1, 2010 7:53pm
Kris K

reid 7:34 pm,

Too bad you don’t see it like that Kris, it’s just too bad.

Too bad for …?
But you’re quite right, Reid, I see it nothing whatsoever like you do.
While Israel may still be under spiritual blindness, they are still God’s chosen people, and will be protected by Him, and preserved, until their Messiah comes to save the remnant of Israel at the great battle in the valley of Megiddo.

You really do need to get over your loathing of Israel, Reid. Remember the account of the sheep and goat nations? – In which group do you lie?
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October 1, 2010 7:57pm
bereal

Lucia. take no notice of vote rigging and one day someone will march you out of your cave.
Those who choose to ignore the lessons of history, etc etc.
You are probablly well intentioned.
Roads to Hell are paved . and so on.
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October 1, 2010 7:58pm
Lucia Maria

eszett,

To say ALL women have to behave like that and that it is the only way to save us, is going back to the caves.

I do know that a great number of women would like to choose to stay home with their kids, but that financial pressures send them out into the workforce. Not to mention societal pressures that expect them working. That’s expectation in the other direction.

Also, back when most women stayed home looked after their children, rather than an army of child care workers doing it for them, we didn’t live in caves.

A bit of an over-reaction on your part, don’t you think?
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October 1, 2010 7:59pm
Pete George

We need electoral reform, the removal of MMP and the racist Maori seats, and the establishment of a genuine Conservative Right party – a Kiwi “Tea Party”, if you will.

Until we achieve the above there is no real choice for voters on the Right, and therefore no real democratic representation in parliament.

Here we go again. “Real democracy” for you seems to be anything that get’s a “Conservative Right party” of your liking into absolute power. Would vote rigging be fine as long as you got the result you wanted?
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October 1, 2010 8:01pm
Kris K

MyNameIsLegion (for we are many) 7:37 pm,

Once again the resident loser xian fights against god’s will.

Luckily for me, Legion, my God and your god are two entirely different beings …
And without knowing my God how would you even start to discern His will?
I mean, if we want to talk about who has a big “L” on their forehead …
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October 1, 2010 8:02pm
Lucia Maria

Bereal,

Already happened to my Dad’s family. They were loaded onto cattle trains and taken to Siberia to work-camps because they were “enemies of Communism”. I try to live up to that title.
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October 1, 2010 8:03pm
Kris K

bereal 7:41 pm,

Kris K Wise up mate. The forces I’m talking about are not going to fight by your rules.
” Untill we achieve etc. etc .” Bullshit.
It will be all over while you are waiting for “what we need. “

So what are you talking, Bereal, armed insurrection, or what?
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October 1, 2010 8:05pm
reid

“In which group do you lie?”

The lambs Kris. Not the sheep.
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October 1, 2010 8:06pm
bereal

Oh dear.
Kris.
Lets be vigilant in preserving what we have achieved thus far.
All i am saying is . This vote rigging. If we accept it it. Or do not react strongly against it.
Will be our doom.
How simple does themessage have to be so that it cant be corrupted ?
I think we are on the same side. So is Lucia, but we have to keep it simple mate.
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October 1, 2010 8:13pm
Kris K

Pete G[e]orge 8:01 pm,

Here we go again. “Real democracy” for you seems to be anything that get’s a “Conservative Right party” of your liking into absolute power. Would vote rigging be fine as long as you got the result you wanted?

More smearing and innuendo from Mr George.
Do you ever get tired of your contemptible lies, and your twisting of other people’s words?

I condemn vote rigging, and then you accuse me of being prepared to employ vote rigging. You really are a lieing low-life aren’t you, Pete? And the trouble is is that everyone here can see you for what you are; everyone except you.
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October 1, 2010 8:18pm
eszett

A bit of an over-reaction on your part, don’t you think?

Really? Just imagine if a Muslim on this blog had said that “religious fundamentalism and patriarchy” is the answer.
Would it then be an overreaction?
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October 1, 2010 8:23pm
Kris K

reid 8:06 pm,

“In which group do you lie?”

The lambs Kris. Not the sheep.

Mat 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
Mat 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Mat 25:35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
Mat 25:36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
Mat 25:37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
Mat 25:38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
Mat 25:39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
Mat 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

Ain’t no lambs in there, Reid.
You do understand what Christ is talking about here regarding the “sheep” and the “goats” in relation to Christ’s “brethren” (Israel; the Jews)?
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October 1, 2010 8:29pm
Pete George

I asked you about vote rigging Kris, that’s all, you’re over reacting. Will you accept any government democracy delivers? Or do you just want power for your conservative right brand? You frequently suggest you prefer authoritarian options that exclude anyone who you don’t think will comply with your ideals. You don’t need to get shitty when it’s pointed out.
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October 1, 2010 8:31pm
kaya

Fuck I hate religous zealots with a passion. Actually I hate all zealots.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10677474&ref=rss
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October 1, 2010 8:33pm
Kris K

bereal 8:13 pm,

All i am saying is . This vote rigging. If we accept it it. Or do not react strongly against it.
Will be our doom.
How simple does themessage have to be so that it cant be corrupted ?
I think we are on the same side. So is Lucia, but we have to keep it simple mate.

Where have I stated or implied that I have accepted the recent vote rigging which has occured in Papatoetoe?

I really don’t know how you get that from my 6:59 pm comment – assuming that’s what you’re basing your assertion upon.
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October 1, 2010 8:34pm
bereal

Hey Kris and eszett,
Why do you argue about how many faries can dance on the head of a pin ?
If our democracy is corrupted. What will that matter. ?
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October 1, 2010 8:35pm
reid

“While Israel may still be under spiritual blindness, they are still God’s chosen people, and will be protected by Him, and preserved, until their Messiah comes to save the remnant of Israel at the great battle in the valley of Megiddo.”

You did understand what I was talking about above Kris?

For from your response, you had no idea.

When was the last time the Israels leadership acknowledged G-d?

When was the last time the Iranian leadership acknowledged G-d?

“And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive”
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October 1, 2010 8:36pm
Lucia Maria

eszett,

Not as much of an over-reaction. But then Islam and Christianity are not the same thing.
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October 1, 2010 8:38pm
MikeNZ

Kris K (3,166) Says:
October 1st, 2010 at 12:14 pm

Well said Kris and here is an answer.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/10/sharia_law_the_key_to_linguist.html

Sharia Law is a target which the liberals cannot defend. After all, without Sharia Law, Islam would be a harmless religion — almost benign. Even though liberals might not mind that Sharia Law treats Christians and Jews like garbage, atheists, polytheists, and pagans are treated even worse. And how could any liberal defend the way it treats women and homosexuals?

However, the best example of hateful foreign laws would be the Apartheid laws of South Africa. Once liberals use the word “hate,” ask them whether they hated the Apartheid laws of the 1980s. If they answer yes, then ask them: if Apartheid was hateful treating non-whites as subhuman, why isn’t Sharia Law hateful for treating non-Muslims as subhuman? Furthermore, you can remind them that South African whites never crashed planes into skyscrapers or attempted to export their laws to Europe or America

better still we should start at the UN as well.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/10/prosecute_mahmoud_ahmadinejad.html
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October 1, 2010 8:39pm
Kris K

Pete G[e]orge 8:31 pm,

Get lost, Pete – you imbecile.
Don’t pretend your ‘question’ was anything other than a smearing false allegation.
You and your ilk really are below contemptible.
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October 1, 2010 8:40pm
reid

“Fuck I hate religous zealots with a passion. Actually I hate all zealots.”

So I guess you don’t think that we should eliminate the Defence Force and use all its manpower and equipment to hereafter zealously hunt 24/7/365 for other humpbacks who by happenstance have managed to entangle themselves, kaya?

What sort of a person are you?
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October 1, 2010 8:41pm
Lucia Maria

Bereal,

Democracy, by it’s very nature, is always corrupt. It’s the system where 51% of the population can vote themselves in what the other 49% have. But vote rigging should not be allowed. However, how it is clamped down on depends on the morality of the people enforcing the laws. Which gets us back to the pin!
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October 1, 2010 8:41pm
bereal

By the way.
Where did this moron Pete George come from all of a sudden.
A genius like that has a point to make on every subject.
Each as inane and more ludicrous than the one before
Bed time baby.
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October 1, 2010 8:41pm
MikeNZ

Stuxnet, poste3d this yesterday, thought it the best of the bunch.
a few pages but a good read.
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2010/06/the-enemy-within/8098/
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October 1, 2010 8:43pm
MyNameIsJack

Lucia Maria (366) Says:

October 1st, 2010 at 8:38 pm
eszett,

Not as much of an over-reaction. But then Islam and Christianity are not the same thing.

Correct, Islam’s got 600 years of murder, torture and buggery to catch up on before we can start to civilise it.
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October 1, 2010 8:43pm
MikeNZ

little oh so innocent questions.
little gentle inquiring thoughts but not actually give own opinion just seeking to entangle so they can go holier than thou.

That’s why I RIP him bereal.
lot less to read.
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October 1, 2010 8:45pm
Lucia Maria

Jack,

And yet you know no fear in your attempts to antagonise me.
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October 1, 2010 8:46pm
Kris K

bereal 8:35 pm,

Hey Kris and eszett,
Why do you argue about how many faries can dance on the head of a pin ?
If our democracy is corrupted. What will that matter. ?

Have you ever stopped to think that there may be a direct correlation between the One who defines corruption, and corruption within society? Food for thought, perhaps.
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October 1, 2010 8:46pm
MyNameIsJack

Kris K, have you ever stopped to think? thought not.
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October 1, 2010 8:49pm
MyNameIsJack

Lucia Maria (367) Says:

October 1st, 2010 at 8:46 pm
Jack,

And yet you know no fear in your attempts to antagonise me.

why should I when I sup with the de’il?
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October 1, 2010 8:50pm
bereal

Lucia , 8.41.
I credited you with something earlier. This post shows i was wrong.
Democracy is corrupt. What would a genius such as yourself suggest as an alternative ?
Geez, luc hansen, p george and yourself should start a political party.
The circle fuks.
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October 1, 2010 8:53pm
Kris K

MikeNZ 8:39 pm,

Yeah, Mike – the Progressives think they’re using Islam, when in fact it is the other way round.
And as your article said:

Even though liberals might not mind that Sharia Law treats Christians and Jews like garbage, atheists, polytheists, and pagans are treated even worse.

The liberals will be the first ones with their heads on the block when Islam comes to town.
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October 1, 2010 8:57pm
Lucia Maria

Jack,

That’s an admission!

It’s not too late for you, you know. That’s why I let you post on my blog. Because I believe in redemption.
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October 1, 2010 9:02pm
MyNameIsJack

I bet that KK cannot define liberal or progressive, other than as someone who doesn’t think as she does.

The liberals will be the first ones with their heads on the block when Islam comes to town.

I doubt that, but if it came to pass, it would be because the KK’s of the world were holding us down.
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October 1, 2010 9:04pm
Kris K

Night all – the thread’s been polluted by Pete-contemptible-G[e]orge and MyNameIsLegion (Voices in my head) – have a good one.
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October 1, 2010 9:09pm
Lucia Maria

Bereal,

No human system of governance is perfect. Democracy is among the best of what we have, but it’s not going to save us all.
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October 1, 2010 9:13pm
MyNameIsJack

Lucy, we don’t all need saving. Some of us are quite happy just living a life well lived. Now, where did I stick that spare communion wafer?
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October 1, 2010 9:15pm
bereal

Lucia. I believe in redemption also.
Elvis said, “As long as a man can dream, he can redeem himself, and fly.”
As you know i believe your theories are rooted in your sexuality.
Why do you think that your sexual problems are such an influence ?
Maybe MNIJ could give you a heads up.
Sorry about that babe, i must be getting tired.
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October 1, 2010 9:16pm
Fletch

Hmmm, I wonder why we didn’t hear about this in the MSM –

A Turkish immigrant who claimed he was performing a traditional dance with violent-looking moves as he beat his wife has been convicted of assault by a New Zealand judge.

Kebab shop owner Allaetin Can was arrested in August after a passer-by reported he was attacking his wife outside their takeaway in the North Island town of Hawera.

He denied the assault charge, arguing he and his wife were celebrating a profitable lunchtime’s trade with a traditional dance called kolbasti, which features mock wrestling, hitting and kicking.

After last month ordering police to examine Can’s claims, judge Allan Roberts described them as “nonsense” in a decision handed down on Wednesday.

“I reject the explanation as a lie,” Roberts said, labelling Can “a manipulative, deceitful man”.

Can was convicted of assault and ordered to pay $NZ1,500 ($A1,143.16) to a women’s refuge.

Jihad Watch helpfully points out that the Koran says

“Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because God has guarded them. As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and send them to beds apart and dance with them.“

“dance with them” of course, meaning something entirely different.
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October 1, 2010 9:19pm
reid

Mike @8:43, thanks for that.

Did you read the MSM article a few days ago re: the Iranian infection of Conficker in its nukular control systems? That was an interesting target.

It’s interesting n’est pas that Defence Agencies the world over are tasked with taking down cyber-infrastructure and they all run teams who do nothing but, in the name of State Security.

I recall reading many years ago the SOP in a nuclear war is (a) air-burst EMP to take out all unprotected networks, incidentally downing every single plane in the sky and (b) take out the public GPS completely -or- introduce errors so it can’t be used.

One wonders from whence these things come – the good guys or the bad guys and is it practice and what happens, when a hot war really gets going.

Thanks for that, again.
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October 1, 2010 9:23pm
Lucia Maria

Bereal,

You want to fill me in on my “sexual problems”?
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October 1, 2010 9:25pm
bereal

Lucia. I was just joking, but if you are really interested, Freud suggested you lie down on a
couch and start talking. When you finish and get up it will all be much clearer. you will feel much better
In your case that may take quite some time. Luc, MNIJ and pete could take notes and discuss with you later.
I apologise again. dont take that seriously, i do rate your opinions sometimes.
Hey, maybe you could all lie down together. You are the most sane of the bunch, maybe you would help
those other losers.
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October 1, 2010 9:44pm
Pete George

Bereal: Each as inane and more ludicrous than the one before

That seems to be your normal modus operandi through the evenings. Are you sure it’s just tiredness? Being self appointed arbiter of what’s acceptable and what’s not must be hard work. Are you more than just Kris’ little helper?
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October 1, 2010 10:06pm
reid

“Being self appointed arbiter of what’s acceptable and what’s not must be hard work.”

I don’t know Pete, I find it quite easy, myself. You bastard. [For no particular reason, just cause I can. So there.]

However I think commenting upon another commenter’s sexual problems or otherwise is possibly a bridge too far so I’ll just confine myself to mindless swearing and invective as it occurs. It’s worked so far: i.e. no demerits yet.
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October 1, 2010 10:10pm
bereal

Of course you just proved my point pete.
Goodnite, gotta go, Celebrity Rehab, just started on the box.
You should catch it.
Oh sorry, your not a celeb, r u ?
Quit when u gotta chance mate.
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October 1, 2010 10:13pm
Pete George

Fair enough reid. You’re an argumentative prick, and the blog is better for it. Being all the same obedients wouldn’t be much point. Besurreal hasn’t quite caught on yet.
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October 1, 2010 10:15pm
Rodders

Did anyone else see TV3’s 7 Days programme tonight? They said that Andrew Williams was due to appear in the ‘Yes Minister’ segment but that he had bailed out after throwing a hissy fit, accusing the programme of trying to smear him.

http://ondemand.tv3.co.nz/Season-2-Ep-17/tabid/59/articleID/1229/MCat/52/Default.aspx
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October 1, 2010 10:21pm
reid

“You’re an argumentative prick”

Why thank you Pete. Perhaps if we ever have an annual awards ceremony, that should be one of them.
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October 1, 2010 10:24pm
Rodders

btw, forgot to mention that if you only want to watch the ‘Yes Minster’ segment on the 7 Days video (above), it is approx 14 mins into the programme.
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October 1, 2010 10:30pm
joana

Why are there 1,600 overstayers in this country?
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October 1, 2010 10:54pm
bhudson

joana,

Because its a pretty cool place to hang out, as far as places go…
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October 1, 2010 11:00pm
joana

Because it has really slack laws and really weak kneed officials who are unwilling to enforce the laws which do exist..oh and because the local people don’t matter.
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October 1, 2010 11:06pm
MikeNZ

Joana
I suspect there are a lot more than 1,600 overstayers in NZ.
Doesn’t change what you said.
have a great weekend.

Reid
I read a ton of stuff on the worm yesterday. Interested both in the technicals and strategy but have no expertise above basic windows so whilst I can understand and appreciate it and them, I don’t know it at all.

The thought of the complexity and long game they are into is thought provoking would make a good spy thriller series possibly.
Interesting that Pakistan, India were also infected.
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October 2, 2010 12:00am
joana

Thanks Mike..you too.
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October 2, 2010 10:35am

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