General Debate 4 September 2010

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Pete George

Mawn, you seem to be inconsistent.

I don’t want to engage in any discussion where center-right stances are hyped as being ultra right-wing,

RB frequently accuses people with centre right, centre and centre left views as being ultra left. Is that not being is “plainly not true and is dishonest”?

You think it’s ok for people you disagree with to be insulted, supporting an attack rather than debate approach, but criticise others for doing anything similar.

RB exposes himself and his own deficiencies far more than he exposes “the left”. Sometimes he posts some interesting points but has a hissy fit if anyone tries to discuss it. He thinks he is attacking but he comes across as trying defend his own shortcomings with bluster bombs.

RB would find a lot more support for his ideas here if he had enough confidence in them to expand on them and discuss them, and didn’t go on the protective defensive so much.

If you think anything but “the right” is unacceptable do you think an inclusive democracy is unacceptable?
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September 4, 2010 2:42pm
tom hunter

It doesn’t encourage innovation as most proponents would argue. We know for example that all products could be made better and to last longer but there is no point doing that in a market measured by economic formulae that sets max profit as the ultimate measure.

Next up is The Labour Theory of Value.

I realise that people like Kaya have very little interest in what happens back on earth but down here I can say that the cars, planes, phones, computers, medicines, medical treatments, houses and almost everything else I use in everyday life are quite superior to what was available 30 years ago, let alone 50-100 years ago. I can also point to everyone of those items and find people who have made profits (often quite big profits) from improving them.

The other important thing to note is that it is these types of core, “common-sense-that-everybody-naturally-understands”, prejudices about capitalism – more than any intellectual understanding of socialist, communist or even social democratic theory – that are the pivot upon which statists constantly lever for more government control over our lives.
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September 4, 2010 2:52pm
Sonny Blount

Gee, I would love it if we still had karma Pete, so that you wouldn’t forget so quickly how most readers here think you are a tool and can tell plain enough what Red is getting at.

In saying that Pete, you are occasionally readable and reasonable, but you are now very much in the skim reading basket. If you can’t make your point about Red in 3,000 posts or less, I would give up.

Yours, and a couple of other posters dumb obsession with making fools of yourselves re Red has replaced Philu’s posts as kiwiblogs no1 cause of excessive use of the scrollwheel.
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September 4, 2010 2:56pm
thedavincimode

Mawm there is a difference but I don’t see how that supports your fawning comment and the supposition it contained.

Nor do I see how anyone can credibly see that anything posted here by sheepbaiter as an “argument”. And as for your criticism of people you then presume to be lefties, it is the very fault that the lunatic ‘baiter exhibits day in and day out. Your responses have no credibility. You know as well as I do that ‘baiter was sprung yet again, and his typical response was the bullshit, bluster and invective to which you chose to lend your support. The thread was guns; ‘baiter ran and you kissed his arse as he whistled past.

You clearly agree with some of his opinions, but that fact does not in itself mean that you are agreeing with any rationally articulated argument because there never is one.
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September 4, 2010 3:01pm
Pete George

“can tell plain enough what Red is getting at”

Sonny, what do you think he was getting at when he said “The need for the citizenry to retain military firepower should be recognised and regulations regarding the ownership of such weapons relaxed”?

Do you think he meant more people should be allowed them? Or more firearms should be allowed to those with licenses? Or more powerful firearms should be allowed for a few?
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September 4, 2010 3:03pm
Pete George

“how most readers here think you are a tool”

How do you count? Do more readers think I’m a tool than think Redbaiter is a tool? Or that think you are a tool?

Doesn’t really matter. I don’t post here to win a popularity contest, I want to challenge myself and challenge others – some obviously don’t like that, they seem to think it’s their own wee club – as they abuse much of what DPF stands for.

Red knows if he wants some mutual backslapping he can hop over to the Rabbit. But he likes to draw attention to himself here, seems to think it will make the world a better place – for the few that remain after he has eliminated all his enemies.
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September 4, 2010 3:10pm
wat dabney

“So the onus is on individuals within the capitalist system to act kindly to the poor, not to the state to ensure they aren’t abused by the ruthlessness of it?”

Capitalism is not ruthless: it it simply the voluntary and mutually-beneficial exchange of goods and services.

Contrast that with the state-operated redistribution scheme based on coercion and which in practise constitutes nothing but a politicised trough which benefits not the poor (the hundreds of millions living on $2 a day) but the local special-interest groups mobilised to control the process. It is nothing but mob rule.
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September 4, 2010 3:14pm
JiveKitty

So boobquake finally struck in Christchurch. Proof of mighty Allah’s wrath. He’s just been a bit busy over the past few months going over all evidence of licentiousness and sin.

Given this, I have a question. Two, in fact. In Islam, do women get to go to heaven? If so, when they get to heaven, are they transformed into men so they can get their 852 virgins or whatever it is?
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September 4, 2010 3:15pm
thedavincimode

tom hunter

Tom, that’s a little unkind. The Soviet bread queue was quite an innovation in its day.
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September 4, 2010 3:24pm
krazykiwi

Nine people have died and one person is injured after a plane crash at Fox Glacier airport, St John ambulance said. The crash happened just before 1.30pm at the end of the runway. Reports emerging from the scene say the plane was from a local sky diving company.

So sad. My heart goes out to the families of the dead.
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September 4, 2010 3:36pm
krazykiwi

Luc’s Hamas mates are at it again…

Israel braced for violence after peace talks announcement

Israel is bracing itself for a new wave of attacks after Hamas warned preparations for fresh violence had reached “highest levels” in response to the announcement of continued Middle East peace talks.

Hamas said it had met with 12 other militant Palestinian groups in Gaza to plan the backlash as the Israeli Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, and the Palestinian President, Mahmoud Abbas, met in Washington for the first face-to-face talks in 20 months.

A spokesman for the group’s military wing said no options had been ruled out and that suicide bombings could be used to target Israel in an attempt to torpedo the new drive for peace.

The slightest suggestion of peace and they up the violence.

When will the world wake up and deal with these evil murdering bastards?
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September 4, 2010 3:41pm
Viking2

Jivekitty. No, but they still get their virgins. How he does it only KK and Pete know. Numbers just don’t add up here om earth.
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September 4, 2010 3:43pm
Viking2

On Q + A this Sunday:

Paul Holmes interviews former South Canterbury Finance Chief Executive Sandy Maier about what went wrong and what chance taxpayers have of recovering the losses.

South Canterbury Finance’s collapse has its origins in the global financial crisis. Reserve Bank Governor Alan Bollard joins Guyon Espiner to talk about his new book, Crisis: One Central Bank Governor & the Global Financial Collapse and his battle to save our finance sector during the worldwide meltdown. Was the deposit guarantee scheme that saved SCF this week well conceived? Did anyone see this coming? And what does he really think of the government’s efforts to counter the crisis?

Paul and Martin Sneddon talk rugby. One year from RWC kick-off, are we ready? Or are the critics right to be sceptical?

Dr Therese Arseneau is joined on the panel by 2025 Taskforce head, the former Reserve Bank Governor and National Party leader, Dr Don Brash and Waitakere mayor Bob Harvey, who’s soon to take over development of the Auckland waterfront.
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September 4, 2010 3:44pm
Viking2

Good Heavens. NZ has made the front page in Aussie twice today.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/
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September 4, 2010 3:48pm
Pete George

No, but they still get their virgins. How he does it only KK and Pete know. Numbers just don’t add up here om earth.

Should be no problem up there, just replicate a few ribs or fish or bread loaves or something.
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September 4, 2010 3:52pm
Viking2

Pete, here’s what’s coming.
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/south-australia/poor-weather-forecast-for-first-days-of-royal-adelaide-show/story-e6frea83-1225913220997

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/north-east-victoria-on-flood-alert-from-heavy-rain-and-winds/story-e6frf7kx-1225913698797
“This is a significant event, it’s probably the biggest we’ve had in 15 years and we’re working hard to ascertain and get that message out and see what the impact is.”
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September 4, 2010 3:54pm
Viking2

More likely commit the fraud of repaired virgins Pete.

Lucia Maria reckons the earth never moves for the immaculate conception so i guess that’s what happened to all those women of Islam .
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September 4, 2010 3:55pm
Pete George

The prediction is for it to come straight across the Tasman, hit the West Coast (probably quite hard Sunday/Monday) and break up, so for the rest of the SI it depends on how much spills over the alps and sneaks around the bottom of the island. The east seems to be largely shielded by the hills. Until next weekend, when a more southerly storm is possible.

If virgins can get pregnant (especially good teenage virgins still living at home) then I guess anything’s possible.
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September 4, 2010 4:01pm
krazykiwi

(especially good teenage virgins still living at home)

Yes, well, we have one of those. I’ve had a gentle word with her boyfriend while shapening a boltcutter. I think he got the message.
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September 4, 2010 4:08pm
thedavincimode

kk

The world is awake to it; the question is how to deal with it. Marginalisation over the long haul is the only solution I suspect. Gun barrel politics in the past has only ever got people to the table; it hasn’t actually represented a solution in itself – there’s plenty of evidence of that historically. Remove the reasons for Hamas to have any appeal to its recruitment pool and align Palestinian perceptions of Hamas to what they actually are and then maybe you can start getting traction. But that’s a pretty big ask in that region, nestled right up to the mad hatter states. The aspect that I always find perplexing is the apparent lack of support from the neighbouring non-nutter states when they have a clear vested interest. Hopefully there’s more going on behind the scenes.

It would indeed be interesting in hearing Luc explain this response without effectively justifying Hamas on the basis of Israel’s actions. Those types of responses on either side won’t take this shambles anywhere. The resolution in N Ireland necessitated the swallowing of some pretty big rats; notably in the form of Gerry Adams.

Clinton looked like the cat that got the cream in the paper so she seems happy with progress.
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September 4, 2010 4:15pm
Johnboy

“If virgins can get pregnant (especially good teenage virgins still living at home) then I guess anything’s possible.”

Psst. I’ve got the coffee table he made while apprenticed to Ahab the carpenter of Bethlehem.

No reasonable offer refused.
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September 4, 2010 4:30pm
krazykiwi

@thedavincimode – Yes, Hillary looked pretty chuffed didn’t she. Further down in that Hamas story:

Iran’s president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad yesterday called for renewed violence to end the peace talks.

During a pro-Palestinian rally in Tehran Mr Ahmadinejad said: “The nations of the region are able to eliminate the Zionist regime from the face of the earth.” The leader of Iran, which is known to support militant Palestinian groups such as Hamas, said that the Israeli “regime has no future. Its life has come to an end”.

Sure he might be playing to the gallery, but this madman has plenty of oil yet needs nuclear technology to generate electricity. Riiiight.
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September 4, 2010 5:06pm
thedavincimode

I don’t take him seriously. He looks like a monkey. Maybe he wants it because he’s Green?

I suspect that eventually someone is going to blow those monkey ears right off his noggin. Hopefully it won’t be the neighbours on the other coast or things will get really bad.
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September 4, 2010 5:20pm
Redbaiter

“you know as well as I do that ‘baiter was sprung yet again”

What utter crap. You are one sick little lying puppy that is for sure. I have never had any other viewpoint (expressed on here often enough) except that there should be no restrictions on firearms ownership for law abiding and sane people. The reason I choose not to debate any issue with you Davinci I will say once more seeing you seem so fucking thick you cannot get it. You’re lowlife, a stalker and psychotic, and I simply choose not to waste time dealing with your sickness. Now fuck off you deranged whining lying little coward.
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September 4, 2010 5:28pm
Redbaiter

“How do you count?”

Most people remember well enough the contempt you garnered when karma was in use you deceitful spineless amoeba.
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September 4, 2010 5:32pm
thedavincimode

“there should be no restrictions on firearms ownership for law abiding and sane people”

Well it took you all day, but you got there. Well done blusterbaiter!

You’re probably a bit overwrought at the moment – answering a question directly and all – it will have taken it out of you, so I won’t trouble you with the more interesting next question which is how that will save democracy if the plagues of jihadist nutters pretend to be law-abiding until such time as they move onto full jihad alert. All I can think of at such short notice is something like an anti-jihad sensor that locks the gun – similar concept to the car locks for drunk drivers.

Be interested in your views at your convenience however.
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September 4, 2010 5:38pm
Redbaiter

What is it with you simpleton commies that you ask dumb question in the belief that answering them demands some kind of massive leap in logic and reason. In fact the inanities you call questions are nothing more than rank examples of a dysfunctional brain shackled by political concepts as thin as paper. Go away- you’re boring and insane, and like your good buddy Pete George, so prone to shameless lying there is absolutely no profit in attempting to reason with you.
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September 4, 2010 5:50pm
Pete George

“so prone to shameless lying”
“Never stalked anyone ever”

Redtroller lies again (and misses his self stoked karma).

http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2010/09/general_debate_4_september_2010.html#comment-736225
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2010/09/general_debate_4_september_2010.html#comment-736230
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September 4, 2010 5:56pm
thedavincimode

Well actually blusterbaiter, that question was an essential pre-requisite to you substantiating your assertion that gun laws should be liberalised, oops sorry, I should have said relaxed. So far you haven’t, and as I’ve pointed out earlier in the day, your subsequent comments regarding history and the defence of democaracy don’t do that. SO lets be clear, the empty assertion remains. I was just trying to reward you for taking that important first step – you know, a bit like giving a dog a biscuit for sitting on its hind legs.
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September 4, 2010 5:58pm
Pete George

I have never had any other viewpoint (expressed on here often enough) except that there should be no restrictions on firearms ownership for law abiding and sane people.

You mentioned “military firepower” in your initial post. Does that include no restrictions on types of weapons. Automatics? Grenades? Rocket launchers? SAMs?
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September 4, 2010 6:04pm
Luc Hansen

Pete, virgins can get pregnant. We have our own personal example close to home. Her then boyfriend, now husband, when they were petting, had what she politely called a “spill” all over her nether regions and next thing she knew she was pregnant, but still a virgi as there had not been any penetration.

And don’t forget guys and girls, Dogs Bollix in Newton tomorrow evening, 5,30pm to 7.30pm, free entry, New Zealand musicians, humanitarian fundraiser for the suffering innocents of Gaza.

I’ve been meaning to do a post on my blog about the The Nation interview with the KIaOraGaza spokesman and interviewers Plunkett and others, all uniformly hostile and in particular, attacking the participants rather than discussing the real issue, the siege that remains in place even though condemned by the entire international community.

But my main argument was with a guest, David Zwartz. I have crossed swords with him before and he is yet another who promotes myth as historical fact. Even worse was his inhumane and condescending statement that Gaza is not in dire need because 250 trucks per day are permitted into the territory.

Well, 250 trucks is only a fraction of the estimated tens of thousands of trucks needed to return Gaza just to pre-siege days, and I would like to challenge Mr Zwartz how he thinks Auckland, with similar population numbers, although not as high a proportion of children, would fare under those conditions. No ships allowed in, no air fright arriving, just 250 trucks per day containing whatever the capricious and usually hostile Israeli officials determine is their version of humanitarian aid.

The siege is illegal because the expressed purpose of punishing the people of Gaza is collective punishment under international law, no matter how Israel’s spokespeople distort both the letter and the spirit of the international legal system.

However, even that is a red herring. Israel can only do what it does with the complicity and support of the US. That’s a fact. The country will quickly come into line when one day the US view changes and that change of view is followed by action, eg no longer exercising its veto power in favour of the most egregiously rogue state in the MIddle East.

Go the Warriors!!
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September 4, 2010 6:05pm
thedavincimode

er Luc, what about Hamas and the monkey man on the other coast getting into line? Any requirement for that?
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September 4, 2010 6:11pm
Steve

Viking2@3.4

Q + A this Sunday.
Well what you say will not happen, it is the ‘Phomes Show’

If only he would shut the fuck up and let someone finish a sentence.
Your ego needs stroking Phomes, put some oil on it
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September 4, 2010 6:16pm
Viking2

Hey Johnboy. I’ve got an old stable in Bethlehem town here that I can rent you. Even find you an ass.

Luc Hansen (1,841) Says:
September 4th, 2010 at 6:05 pm

Pete, virgins can get pregnant. We have our own personal example close to home. Her then boyfriend, now husband, when they were petting, had what she politely called a “spill” all over her nether regions and next thing she knew she was pregnant, but still a virgin as there had not been any penetration.

So that’s everyones pants off, but we didn’t do anything Sir! HMMM medical miracle.
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September 4, 2010 6:30pm
Luc Hansen

It’s a virgin birth, viking, proving that it can happen.

And maybe Mary’s virgin wasn’t quite the miracle it is supposed to be – more a matter of her naughty Dad getting his jollies off!

Although, personally, I think it’s all just post-construct creative fiction!
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September 4, 2010 6:34pm
Luc Hansen

davinci

monkey man?

Elucidate, please.
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September 4, 2010 6:35pm
Johnboy

“Hey Johnboy. I’ve got an old stable in Bethlehem town here that I can rent you. Even find you an ass.”

Thanks but no thanks V2. My sheep get very jealous when I chase after stray ass.
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September 4, 2010 6:38pm
reid

“The cost of damage from today’s devastating quake could be as much as $2 billion, Earthquake Commission chief executive Ian Simpson says.”

I thought Key was lucky? Coming right on top of SCF, what are the rating agencies going to do?

P.S. Thank goodness no deaths reported yet. That’s the best kind of luck.
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September 4, 2010 7:26pm
Hurf Durf

Gwen Dire (“Moderate majority no threat to Demtards” even though the moderate majority, um, oppose the GZM) and the emaciated mong who looks like a smug academic being printed in today’s Huruld proves that rag’s total irrelevence in providing anything even resembling balanced, fact-based opinion journalism. What next? Oh, it’s McCarten tomorrow. Wonderful.
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September 4, 2010 7:33pm
reid

National MP Amy Adams, who lives 32km west of Christchurch at Aylesbury, said her house was substantially damaged in the terrifying early morning quake.

“It’s taken a fairly big knock – it’s not the worst house but it’s going to need some parts of it rebuilt,” Mrs Adams told NZPA.

The fire service was at the house late this afternoon trying to make it waterproof.

The chimneys in the 95-year-old house had toppled over, with one of them embedded in another part of the roof and likely to break through. Inside supporting walls were also damaged, and there were breakages and other “low-level” damage such as plaster cracks.

The chimneys came down between her bedroom and the next room.

“The noise was pretty horrendous, and I felt like the whole house was going to cave in on me but luckily it didn’t.

“It was very disorienting because you’re in such deep sleep, and it takes your brain quite a while to process what’s even happening, and then of course you’re just thinking where’s the family, where are the kids, where’s the husband,” she said.

“The worst part of course is it’s pitch black, you’re trying to get out to your family, there’s a lot of debris all over the floor, a lot of broken glass, and you’re just trying to get everyone together and to somewhere safe, and we spent quite a few hours huddled under the kitchen table.”

And these are supposed to be the people who tell us what we need to do, in an emergency.
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September 4, 2010 7:34pm
MikeNZ

reid (4,771) Says:
September 4th, 2010 at 2:32 pm

Yep all that you wrote.
Pity we can’t get to their parents too.

re-education camps, were you thinking of the watermelons or just the poor beneficiaries?
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September 4, 2010 7:49pm
MikeNZ

Jivekitty

It’s 72 virgins.
http://www.palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=565
http://www.masada2000.org/BetterWorld.html
But dang they support Israel so for the LUC’s of this world
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2329/does-the-koran-really-promise-islamic-martyrs-72-virgins
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September 4, 2010 7:57pm
reid

Both of course, Mike.

As well as some others…
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September 4, 2010 8:03pm
Luc Hansen

“Luc’s of this world”

That’s nearly the whole world, Mike.
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September 4, 2010 8:04pm
reid

BTW, I would have thought a $2,000,000,000 estimate is too low, when you think of all the structural integrity checks that now have to take place , for every single workplace in ChCh.

Let alone every single house…
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September 4, 2010 8:11pm
MikeNZ

have we got that much in the bank?
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September 4, 2010 8:15pm
Hurf Durf

Mike, you fool, they get 72 raisins. It’s a translation error.
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September 4, 2010 8:16pm
reid

I just googled “eqc nz” to find out what was currently in the bank, and guess what?

Very first link said:

Chch Quake Damage Claims
EQC.co.nz/Christchurch-Claims Owners of insured homes damaged by quake need to lodge a claim here.

EXCELLENT service. Highly commendable.
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September 4, 2010 8:28pm
Luc Hansen

Hurfie

re al qaeda

you should do as I do and get the inside info here
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September 4, 2010 8:45pm
kaya

Been working.

Tom Hunter- “I realise that people like Kaya have very little interest in what happens back on earth but down here I can say that the cars, planes, phones, computers, medicines, medical treatments, houses and almost everything else I use in everyday life are quite superior to what was available 30 years ago, let alone 50-100 years ago.”

It’s Earth I’m worried about, I have kids.

I don’t disagree that things get better, things improved from the stone age to the iron age to the bronze age, but I doubt many people made it onto the Fortune 500. Sure some products genuinely improve but most could be made better.

The rate we turn over equipment, cars, phones, tvs, whiteware is a waste of resources, most of it unnecessary.

How many blades has your razor got, 4? 5? A toothbrush that cleans your tongue? Give me a break!
I’m sure you know all about planned obsolescence. Is it socially responsible? Chasing profit causes businesses to push the consumption that constant turnover requires, wasting resources. But then we have to have choice, it’s our right huh?

Medicine and medical treatments? The vast majority of people in the world don’t have access to them because of greed.

I don’t disagree with our capitalist system, work hard and get rewarded, I disagree with the way some abuse it.
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September 4, 2010 9:12pm
thedavincimode

Luv

That was a gratuitously denigrating reference to Mr Och Ma Dinna Jed! and his simian features.

I can accept the humanitarian concerns regarding what’s happening but playing tit for tat with madbaiter and his revivalist glee club todoesn’t fix the problem. I don’t think its practical to just ask Israel to go somewhere else irrespective of whether you think they should (I have no idea if you do) and I think they’ve indicated that they won’t anyway.

So, what’s the answer if nobody wants to leave, both parties see themselves as fighting for survival and we get this less than constructive but entirely predictable response to yet another peace initiative from Hamas and the mad Mr Och Ma Dinna Jad! ?
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September 4, 2010 9:27pm
JiveKitty

“It’s a virgin birth, viking, proving that it can happen.

And maybe Mary’s virgin wasn’t quite the miracle it is supposed to be – more a matter of her naughty Dad getting his jollies off! ”

The message I get from that is that condoms fail, abstinence fails, so all that’s left is anal sex. Never been all that interested myself, but if it prevents a baby, well, who am I to deny the revealed truth of the Bible?
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September 4, 2010 9:58pm
thedavincimode

Er that was meant to be “Luc”
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September 4, 2010 10:05pm
Luc Hansen

davinci

Let’s ignore your gratuitous racist insult to Ahmedinjad and cut to the chase

The humanitarian imperative is Gaza and the so-called peace process has nothing to do with it. The 1.5 million people of Gaza are being collectively punished for the heinous sin of allowing a bunch of armed thugs to oppress them, in addition to the oppression already imposed by an occupying force, Israel. The whole world condemns this, even Israel’s partner in occupation and war crimes, the USA.

Of course I don’t advocate Israel goes someplace else. That’s up to them. I do advocate that Palestinians ie the men and wome and children in the street, who are just like you and I and our families, be accorded the full human rights, including the right of self-determination, denied to them since 1945.

But even that has nothing to do with the humanitarian crisis in Gaza.

The siege is illegal. The US is the only country preventing the imposition of sanctions on Israel to end the siege and, incidentally, to end the fighting by agreeing to two states based on the 1967 armistice lines.

The US is the elephant in the room, not misguided settlers in Palestine.

I urge you to support Palestinians caught up in this geo-political imbroglio, and one concrete act available to all of us is to support well-intentioned people trying to take humanitarian relief to the people of Gaza. It doesn’t mean another Holocaust will befall Jews.

And Ahmadinejad may be strident, but he is not mad. He is just a Persian G. W. Bush and, like Dubya, he is not permitted to run for re-election.

Let’s focus on ordinary humans, not the geo-politics. You can pop over to Kiwipolitico for that detached, academic analysis.
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September 4, 2010 10:16pm
Fot

“And Ahmadinejad may be strident, but he is not mad.”

Ha ha ha….
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September 4, 2010 10:23pm
Luc Hansen

oops

Strike 1945 and write 1918, sorry.

Fot, takes one to know one, eh?
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September 4, 2010 10:26pm
Hurf Durf

Hahahahaha.

LEAVE MAHMOOD ALOOOOOOOOOOOOONE!
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September 4, 2010 10:33pm
reid

“Ahmadinejad may be strident, but he is not mad.”

Well this is quite the case, is it not?

Do you really imagine you could be a long-term President of Iran if you were fucking insane?

Honestly?
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September 4, 2010 10:40pm
krazykiwi

The siege is illegal. The US is the only country preventing the imposition of sanctions on Israel to end the siege

Illegal? Nope. You might think it unnecessary or undesirable or immoral… but illegal it is not.

As to your point about sanctions, here is a list of sovereign nations. Please provide evidence that each of these, apart from the USA, endorses sanctions against Israel. You can’t of course, but that doesn’t stop you lying.
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September 4, 2010 10:43pm
Banana Llama

Roflmao.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHmvkRoEowc&feature=related
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September 4, 2010 10:46pm
Luc Hansen

KK

This is what I meant:

the US is the only member of the Security Council that consistently exercises its veto in favour of Israel’s genocidal policies. And the few nations that support the US and Israel generally as regards Israel are Melanesia, Palau, Nauru, Marshall Islands and sometimes Australia and/or Canada, depending on the leadership of the day.

New Zealand, under the current mob, largely falls into line as well, by abstention, mainly, but National always has lacked principles when it comes to geo-politics.
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September 4, 2010 11:01pm
reid

“National always has lacked principles when it comes to geo-politics”

The alternative view of which is National is pragmatic whereas Liarbore is idealistic: e.g. the nuke-free policy which has achieved precisely nothing in nuclear weapons reduction at a great cost to us as a nation.
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September 4, 2010 11:12pm
Luc Hansen

reid

where have you been for the last few elections?

National signed up to the nuke-free policy as well, eventually.

But if you prefer the interests of the few to hold sway over the interests of the many, well, you’re entitled to your opinion.
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September 4, 2010 11:29pm
Luc Hansen

KK

By all means give us chapter and verse of why the siege is legal. I will enjoy dissecting it and liberating you from your delusions with truth.
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September 4, 2010 11:33pm
reid

Luc, the best thing to do, internationally, seldom coincides with the popular opinion.

I mean, do you want examples: e.g. Britain, 1930’s?
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September 4, 2010 11:55pm
Hurf Durf

For “but National always has lacked principles” read “not been reliably anti-Western enough.”

Though I figure Puke Hansen would be one of the few deluded enough to think the luddite anti-nuke policy was worth shit.
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September 5, 2010 12:01am
Guy Fawkes

When it says there is a series of 20:20 Cricket tests. Are those the official starting betting odds in Pakistan?
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September 5, 2010 6:17am
krazykiwi

By all means give us chapter and verse of why the siege is legal.

Luc, by all means don’t dodge. You claimed the seige is illegal. The burden of proof is yours. Time to stop making shit up.
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September 5, 2010 8:50am
thedavincimode

You can’t see it can you Luc.

On the one hand you argue to depoliticise what is a human tragedy, but you concurrently politicise it by your criticism of the US and Israel. If you want to point the finger, then you’re about 60 or 70 years too late, if not longer.

The Palestinians are the meat in a 60 or 70 year old geo-political sandwich. Suggesting that the US is the elephant in the room is simply farcical. The reality is that whatever criticism you might choose to level at the US in tems of its motives, the US has been a persistent broker of a peaceful solution in the region. Yet again it has brokered a basis for the principals to move forward and yet again the same interests respond by setting out to undermine it.

Crapping on about what is or isn’t legal is a pointless exercise when the target of your criticism is under constant attack and threat. If you want to push it on humanitarian grounds good on you. But admonishing Israel and the US to the exclusion of the real obstacles to this shambles, being the elements that have a vested interest in actually prolonging it, only detracts from your objective.
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September 5, 2010 9:19am

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