General Debate 18 September 2010

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Inventory2

First? Of course; most other people have better things to do with their time at this early hour!
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September 18, 2010 7:24am
Falafulu Fisi

From the research front.

Two legs faster than four in the quantum world
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September 18, 2010 8:01am
wreck1080

“Matthew John McLennan, 18, admitted in Masterton District Court yesterday that he abducted a 14-year-old Carterton schoolgirl with the intention of sexual connection and attempted to abduct an 11-year-old girl.”

This guy needs to be off the streets. The judge only gave him one strike, yet it is for 2 crimes.

This is not what normal people do.

Regarding the 3 strikes legislation, if a person commits 3 extremely violent offences over several years, but doesn’t get caught until the 3rd, then, do they get 3 strikes immediately? I should think so.
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September 18, 2010 8:01am
grumpyoldhori

While the focus has been on Garrett for damn good reason one has to ask why the judge let him off.
Because he was a lawyer ? and too important to be found guilty and chucked in the slammer which has happened to others who committed that crime.
Nasty cynical types might come to the conclusion that a law degree is real helpful when one is in the dock.

He would lose the right to practice law and was too old at forty seven to retrain, jeez, what a socialistic argument.
Yet, the judge let him off, why ?
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September 18, 2010 8:22am
Put it away

wreck – I don’t know the law, but I would guess not. The intent of it was that each time a person gets caught they get fair warning that they need to sort their shit out. Ignore two warnings and the hammer comes down.
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September 18, 2010 8:23am
petal

“KiwiRail’s new train breaks down
One of KiwiRail’s new multimillion-dollar Matangi trains – the much-vaunted answer to Wellington commuter troubles – has broken down and had to be towed back to its depot. ”

I think we should start to call it CullenRail.

This embarrassment should be forever linked to that man’s poor judgment. Or evil intent, depending on your viewpoint.
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September 18, 2010 8:25am
Pete George

Garrett had told police he saw it as “a bit of a lark” and doubted the false identity ploy would work.

Maybe the real answer as to why he did it will remain unanswered, but currently things don’t add up. Why would he do to great lengths to do something he knew was a serious offence if he thought he would be caught?
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September 18, 2010 8:26am
Put it away

grumpy stop pretending to be dumber than you are, you know the reasons – it was 26 years ago, he never used the passport for anything, it was his first and only offence and he’d led a blameless life ever since ( the judge didn’t know about the $10 rumble in the jungle ). Anyone else would get the same with the same set of circumstances.
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September 18, 2010 8:27am
Inventory2

More thoughts on Matt Jones from UNITE in Christchurch, and his “Tour of Shame” which is planned for this weekend. Haven’t Christchurch’s employers had to put up with enough over the last two weeks without this opportunist union wannabe ambushing them?

http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2010/09/dear-matthew.html
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September 18, 2010 8:44am
MikeNZ

Here is some reading for the weekend.
When war starts in the summer you’ll be up with the flow.

http://washingtoninstitute.org/pubPDFs/PolicyFocus106.pdf
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September 18, 2010 8:52am
Pete George

You’d have to wonder if perhaps the earthquake rattled something between Matt Jones’ ears a bit too much.

PIA: “(the judge didn’t know about the $10 rumble in the jungle )”

…because Garrett lied to him about it.
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September 18, 2010 8:56am
Inventory2

@ Pete – agree regards Matt Jones. I wonder if Matt McCarten supports him; I should hope not.
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September 18, 2010 9:01am
Put it away

Pete – no shit, sherlock . We all know that, that’s all that’s been talked about for the last two days, but that’s not relevant to the point under discussion – hori’s post was about the reasons the judge let him off, which is obviously down to information the judge had in front of him at the time in 2005. Information the judge didn’t have ( and why he didn’t have it ) is not relevant to whether or not the judge made a light decision based on the information he did have. Not too complicated for you ?
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September 18, 2010 9:10am
krazykiwi

An extract from the story I posted yesterday … [@Petal, note their railways!]

Beware of Greeks Bearing Bonds
[…]
In addition to its roughly $400 billion (and growing) of outstanding government debt, the Greek number crunchers had just figured out that their government owed another $800 billion or more in pensions. Add it all up and you got about $1.2 trillion, or more than a quarter-million dollars for every working Greek. Against $1.2 trillion in debts, a $145 billion bailout was clearly more of a gesture than a solution.
[…]
As it turned out, what the Greeks wanted to do, once the lights went out and they were alone in the dark with a pile of borrowed money, was turn their government into a piñata stuffed with fantastic sums and give as many citizens as possible a whack at it.

In just the past decade the wage bill of the Greek public sector has doubled, in real terms—and that number doesn’t take into account the bribes collected by public officials. The average government job pays almost three times the average private-sector job.

The national railroad has annual revenues of 100 million euros against an annual wage bill of 400 million, plus 300 million euros in other expenses. The average state railroad employee earns 65,000 euros a year. Twenty years ago a successful businessman turned minister of finance named Stefanos Manos pointed out that it would be cheaper to put all Greece’s rail passengers into taxicabs: it’s still true. “We have a railroad company which is bankrupt beyond comprehension,” Manos put it to me.
[…]
The Greek public-school system is the site of breathtaking inefficiency: one of the lowest-ranked systems in Europe, it nonetheless employs four times as many teachers per pupil as the highest-ranked, Finland’s. Greeks who send their children to public schools simply assume that they will need to hire private tutors to make sure they actually learn something.
[…]
The retirement age for Greek jobs classified as “arduous” is as early as 55 for men and 50 for women. As this is also the moment when the state begins to shovel out generous pensions, more than 600 Greek professions somehow managed to get themselves classified as arduous: hairdressers, radio announcers, waiters, musicians, and on and on and on.

The Greek public health-care system spends far more on supplies than the European average—and it is not uncommon, several Greeks tell me, to see nurses and doctors leaving the job with their arms filled with paper towels and diapers and whatever else they can plunder from the supply closets.
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September 18, 2010 9:34am
MyNameIsJack

The religious spinmeisters at it again.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10674357

British police raided a London garbage depot early today (NZ time), arresting five street cleaners in a suspected terrorist plot against Pope Benedict XVI on the second day of his state visit to Britain. A sixth person was arrested later in the day.

It is outrageous that these heroes be described as terrorists, when the RC Church has a 2000 year history of terror, when Benedict is only just beginning to acknowledge his role in the terror perpetrated against the youngest and most vulnerable in their care, when millions die of AIDS in Africa because of RC opposition to condoms, any attack on the RC church must be seen as an Act of Right.
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September 18, 2010 9:41am
krazykiwi

@MNIJ – You are sick. Get some help.
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September 18, 2010 9:45am
MyNameIsJack

I’m sick?

What do you call a man who wanders around in a dress? Who denies the most essential aspect of masculinity? Who presides over an institution that has spent 1000 years trying to hold back progress?

Do you deny the RC Church has inflicted terror whereever it went?

That it systematically abuses children and then systematically covers up that abuse?

That it condemns millions to die because of its opposition to condom use in Africa? That it misues its hold over a superstitious people?

Every person who attends a RC mass is sick. The sane our outside the walls, not inside.
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September 18, 2010 9:52am
krazykiwi

@MNIJ – your assertions are designed to attribute all the worlds’ wrongs to people with a religious belief system. So you make shit up and/or exaggerate to build a case. Wasn’t your father a minister of religion?
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September 18, 2010 10:04am
tristanb

MNIJ, I assume you are trolling, but the reason you are sick is for supporting terrorism, not for disliking religion. Even if the terrorists were planning to attack the Bert Potter and Graham Capill appreciation society, they would still be condemned. Secretly planning to blow things up because you don’t like them is not the way that protest should be handled.

Anyway, the RC church in NZ is an infinitely more sensible church than the fly-by-night fundamentalist Pentecostals and Elims, which promote hate. I think becoming a priest and sacrificing a normal life for your belief is much better than the Christian-rock-band-supporting, abortionist-bombing, child-beating fundamentalists. You don’t hear about the other churches as much because they aren’t as organised. But the Sallies, the Brash’s Brethren, the Mormons, the Baptists, and all the others have just as high an incidence of child molestation. It is part of what attracts some people to become a religious leader.

But I’m sure you find that trolling is a great way to spend a lazy Saturday.
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September 18, 2010 10:08am
MyNameIsJack

No, I do not attribute most of the worlds’ wrongs to people with a religious belief system, just a hell of a lot. Only their fair share.

So you make shit up … Such as?

Wasn’t your father a minister of religion? No, and even if he was, why should that matter? I am a Man in my own right, not beholden to ideas or attitudes from the past, unlike those poor souls brainwashed into religion from birth.
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September 18, 2010 10:10am
joana

Matt Jones is linked to /associated with…..well they promote his activities…a very well organized anarchist group in ChCh called ”Beyond resistance.” not sure how many people are involved but this group is very active.
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September 18, 2010 10:13am
krazykiwi

@tristanb – I completely agree with your first para. However your second para is exactly the kind of disgusting bigotry and intolerance that Christians are so routinely accused of. Why do you hate Christians so much?
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September 18, 2010 10:14am
Redbaiter

“I am a Man in my own right,”

You’re a ranting bore and a coward who posts fake messages in other people’s names all over the blogopshere. A despicable liar and an amoral yellow back with an insane fixation on Christianity that would no doubt allow you to kill and murder Christians with the same callous disregard as your historical heroes. Don’t posture here as holier than thou. Your are animalistic scum, and that is unfair to animals. A man you will never be.
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September 18, 2010 10:16am
MyNameIsJack

Jesusinalunaticassylum, someone rattled your chain Rusty old son.

I’m a damnded site more of a Man than you’ll ever be. You’re a know nothing, do nothing, pussy whipped, do as FOX says moron.

… allow you to kill and murder Christians… an out right lie and slander. Unlike you, I follow a path of non agression, non violence. My heroes do not destroy entire nations for their own selfish ends. But then, unlike right wing pond scum, I’ve never felt the need for heroes (other than EJ). How many more Iraqs would YOU like?

BTW – how much was the last benefit cheque?
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September 18, 2010 10:28am
krazykiwi

When I buy a new car I do not expect to have it towed back to the dealer on its first outing. Same for Wellington’s new commuter trains.

KiwiRail’s new train breaks down

One of KiwiRail’s new multimillion-dollar Matangi trains – the much-vaunted answer to Wellington commuter troubles – has broken down and had to be towed back to its depot.

The two-car train failed during routine testing at Manor Park, in the Hutt Valley, yesterday and had to be towed 22 kilometres back to the rail depot in Thorndon.

KiwiRail refused to discuss the breakdown. The train is the first of 48 new units bought by Greater Wellington regional council at a cost of $235 million. The Korean-built trains are part of a $550m upgrade of the ageing rail service, which has been plagued by breakdowns and points failures.

Greater Wellington regional council chairwoman Fran Wilde denied the breakdown reflected badly on the council. “It’s not embarrassing and it’s not unexpected that things go wrong,” she said. “It’s not a bad look, it’s just how things go. If we didn’t test, that would be a bad look.”

Fran, the other thing “it’s not” is … it’s not good enough!
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September 18, 2010 1:24pm
MyNameIsJack

krazykiwi (6,468) Says:

September 18th, 2010 at 1:24 pm
When I buy a new car I do not expect to have it towed back to the dealer on its first outing.

Which is why I don’t buy Korean cars.

Instead of blaming KiwiRail or the WRC, put the blame where it lies, with the shoddy manufacturer.
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September 18, 2010 1:32pm
Pete George

Who backs (or bags) who is getting interesting.

Krauthammer: Tuesday in Delaware was a bad day not only for Republicans but also for conservatives. The eleventh-hour endorsements of O’Donnell by Sen. Jim DeMint (R-S.C.) and Sarah Palin so reckless and irresponsible.

Gerson: In Tea Party theory, inexperience is itself seen as a kind of qualification. People like O’Donnell are actually preferable to people like Rove, because they haven’t been tainted by public trust or actual achievement. This is the attitude of the adolescent — the belief that the world began on their thirteenth birthday. It is also a sign of childish political thought.

Balz: Palin visit to Iowa prompts 2012 talk. Former Alaska governor’s appearance demonstrates her influence in GOP and rekindles speculation about a possible run for president.

Stoddard of The Hill: Even before Christine O’Donnell handily defeated Rep. Mike Castle (R-Del.) in an epic upset Tuesday night, the Tea Parties, all of them, had already won. No matter what happens in the midterm elections on Nov. 2, the Tea Party has moved the Democrats to the right and the Republicans even more so, and President Obama’s agenda is dead … The Tea Party candidates themselves — like O’Donnell, whom Karl Rove called “nutty,” — matter little. Only a few will actually get elected this fall. Yet the Tea Party has won without them. There are no tea leaves left to read. Democrats have been spooked and Republicans threatened, cajoled or cleansed.

Peggy Noonan asks the big question: “One difference so far between the tea party and the great wave of conservatives that elected Ronald Reagan in 1980 is that the latter was a true coalition—not only North and South, East and West but right-wingers, intellectuals who were former leftists, and former Democrats. When they won presidential landslides in 1980, ‘84 and ‘88, they brought the center with them. That in the end is how you win. Will the center join arms and work with the tea party?”
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September 18, 2010 1:38pm
Portia

On The Nation this morning, Duncan Garner pretty much confirmed that Simon Ewing Jarvis has been drip feeding the Press Gallery with the David Garrett information in what was described as something like a strategic, military-style, revenge campaign. And he indicated there were more Act attacks yet to come.

Judging by Whale Oil’s post last month, in which he “outed” SEJ as the leaker of the Heather Roy dossier after being sent a whole lot of salacious, nasty material Anatomy of a Failed Leak Coup Smear either John Boscawen or Rodney Hide himself are likely to be the next targets. I wonder if the Press Gallery will drag their tails in the gutter and continue to faithfully report everything they’re spoon fed by this illustrious source – or is it time to turn the tables on SEJ and also ask some pertinent questions of his BFF, Heather?
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September 18, 2010 1:40pm
hj

“Green MP Dave Clendon also opposed the bill, saying it was based on the premise that customary title was the Crown’s [= the rest of the 4.3 million] to give.

He said the legislation would make Maori “supplicants” in their own country.”
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10673767
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September 18, 2010 1:42pm
krazykiwi

Which is why I don’t buy Korean cars.

Instead of blaming KiwiRail or the WRC, put the blame where it lies, with the shoddy manufacturer.

In doing what you’re advocating, you’d buy a Korean car and then blame the manufacturer.
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September 18, 2010 1:44pm
hj

Garret might attract some sympathy votes for Act?
as in:
“Those who cast their vote in favour of the Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill will be casting dragon’s teeth into political soil already richly fertilised by the reek of earlier betrayals. And when, in true mythic style, these seeds of the dragon’s mouth call forth a harvest of angry political spartoi utterly unresponsive to reason or pity, then the suddenly powerless and personally vulnerable members of New Zealand’s political class will have no one to blame but themselves. “
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September 18, 2010 1:45pm
jackp

and Chris Finlayson assured that access would be free to the public. We only have his assurance. Only thing is, when nationial gets voted out, then what assurance can he give.
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September 18, 2010 1:48pm
Hagues

MyNameIsJack “Instead of blaming KiwiRail or the WRC, put the blame where it lies, with the shoddy manufacturer.”

Lol, who made the decision to buy from the “shoddy manufacturer”?
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September 18, 2010 1:49pm
hj

That was from Chris Trotter
http://bowalleyroad.blogspot.com/
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September 18, 2010 1:49pm
krazykiwi

@jackp – Finlayson has not made that assurance. In fact he’s dodged making it on a number of occasions. This from John Ansell the other day:

“As it happens, if an Iwi does gain customary title to part of the foreshore, they can do pretty much anything on it a private owner (who has paid for the title) can do – except two things. They can’t sell it, and they can’t exclude people from it.”

They certainly can exclude people from it.

All they have to do is declare a stretch of beach wahi tapu (sacred) for any reason they care to name under the deliberately mysterious criteria of tikanga (which only iwi can be trusted to decide).

This means that if a Maori at some point over the centuries died on that stretch of beach – and think how many must have done so in the various wars – that beach can be declared off limits.

And they certainly can charge the public.

The now-reviled David Garrett did a sterling job of proving, over numerous attempted smokescreens from Minister Finlayson, that, contrary to his various public statements after the emergence of the Coastal Coalition billboards, nowhere in his new bill did it say that public access would be FREE.

This saddens me as I previously had a high regard for Chris Finlayson.
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September 18, 2010 1:55pm
MyNameIsJack

Hagues (565) Says:

September 18th, 2010 at 1:49 pm
MyNameIsJack “Instead of blaming KiwiRail or the WRC, put the blame where it lies, with the shoddy manufacturer.”

Lol, who made the decision to buy from the “shoddy manufacturer”?

Doesn’t matter. Or does every faulty product YOU buy become your fault and not the manufacturer’s? Guess they must love you.
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September 18, 2010 1:58pm
Pete George

Under “Offenses against chastity,” the Catholic Church’s Catechism says this:

By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. “Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action.” “The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose.” For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of “the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved.”

The church’s Declaration on Certain Questions Concerning Sexual Ethics adds that

masturbation is an intrinsically and seriously disordered act. The main reason is that, whatever the motive for acting this way, the deliberate use of the sexual faculty outside normal conjugal relations essentially contradicts the finality of the faculty. For it lacks the sexual relationship called for by the moral order, namely the relationship which realizes “the full sense of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love.” All deliberate exercise of sexuality must be reserved to this regular relationship.

O’Donnell is just following the official line of her church:

It’s well known that O’Donnell, in her previous job as president and founder of the Savior’s Alliance for Lifting the Truth, preached the evils of masturbation. What’s less understood is her rationale for doing so. In a 1996 program on MTV, she and her SALT colleagues explained their philosophy. “Masturbation is a selfish act,” said the group’s marketing director. O’Donnell cautioned that anyone who masturbates is “toying with his sexuality.” She concluded: “You’re going to be pleasing each other. And if he already knows what pleases him, and he can please himself, then why am I in the picture?”

It just happens to conflict with her anti-socialism pro-individualism ideas.
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September 18, 2010 2:03pm
tom hunter

krazy and others

It’s been said before but it has to be said again: MyNameIsJackOff is trolling.

When you see a statement as brain-dead as Which is why I don’t buy Korean cars. you should know that he’s just throwing any old brain spasm out there to keep things boiling along. No knowledge of build quality in Korean cars or ships for a start.

I suggest just waiting until he says something that is egregiously stupid but not batshit insane and then pivot off that comment to add to the debate – although I accept you’ll be waiting a long time.
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September 18, 2010 2:05pm
Hagues

MyNameIsJack “Doesn’t matter. Or does every faulty product YOU buy become your fault and not the manufacturer’s? Guess they must love you.”

If I decide to buy cheap shit from an unreliable source instead of buying quality products from a reputable supplier, then I must shoulder the responsiblilty for that decision.

Tom I think you are right, I shall refrain from feeding anymore.
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September 18, 2010 2:06pm
krazykiwi

@tom – fair enough. With MNIJ trolling, and Pete blathering on about O’Donnell and masturbation every day it leaves the subjects a bit lacking
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September 18, 2010 2:12pm
tom hunter

Pete’s trolling as well – but I’ll bite one more time.

It just happens to conflict with her anti-socialism pro-individualism ideas.

Thank goodness the US Constitution prevents us having to worry that O’Donnell’s religious views will impact on us “pro-individualists”.

Unlike socialism such as Obamacare.

Hey – maybe that’s how she can be both anti-socialist and pro-individual – she knows her views can only be arguments of persuasion whereas socialism has to be enforced by the state.
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September 18, 2010 2:16pm
tom hunter

By the way Krazy, thanks for the link to Lewis’s article Beware Greeks Bearing Bonds – but I’d already read it a couple of weeks ago or so: it is bloody good.

However, if you want a great example of how the “lessons” can be spun to teach something entirely different take a gander at the take on it by The Dim Post. Note the comments especially.
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September 18, 2010 2:26pm
jock

mnij
What do you call a man who wanders around in a dress???????
A MAORI in trad costume
one for you grumpy hori
have a nice day
Jock
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September 18, 2010 2:27pm
Pete George

Portia : And he indicated there were more Act attacks yet to come.

WhaleOil implied the same thing a couple of days ago, suggesting he already had the details which is sort of weird. So he decides to sit on them, why? Whale was busy dissing the MSM for their drip feeding, the same MSM that he contributes to and uses.

And if Garner knows more now why hasn’t he released them, or stated they aren’t good for public consumption? Is drip feed better for ratings?
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September 18, 2010 2:45pm
kowtow

Mynameisjerk;

At the moment the arrested are suspects ,no one has definitively called them “terrorists”. The fact you call suspected terrorists “heroes” is deeply disturbing.

The Church cannot have a 2000 year history of terror as it was only formally recognised in AD313 by Constantine,that makes 1700 years by my reckoning and in any event the” terror” if such it was lays as much at the door of the state as with the church.It was the Emperor who made it the state religion and the state that enforced its edicts.

The Pope no more wears a dress than a Scot or Fijian or any other number of traditional styles.

Abuse? Let’s look closer to home for a moment and honestly question if we don’t have a problem too.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/4141488/57-abusers-down-hundreds-to-go-for-police-child-protectors
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September 18, 2010 3:04pm
Kris K

krazykiwi 1:24 pm,

When I buy a new car I do not expect to have it towed back to the dealer on its first outing. Same for Wellington’s new commuter trains.

I seem to recall similar ‘teething’ issues with some of the Cook Strait Ferries purchased not so long ago. Engines dropping out and electrical issues. While the manufacturer may be to blame, does the purchaser bear no responsibility? Half the time I think it’s the idiots choosing the product, with little expertise, and nor have they sought expertise elsewhere, who are the real problem.

Can’t say I’m surprised based on recent history …
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September 18, 2010 3:05pm
MyNameIsJack

kowtow, I have never denied that there is abuse outside the RC church. Big difference though is that when “we” find abuse, we prosecute the perpertartor whereas the RC church promotes or relocates the perpetrator and persecutes the victim. Then, when the secular authorities call the church to account the Bloke in the Frock plays the victim card.
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September 18, 2010 3:09pm
Luc Hansen

Regarding the F&S

There was an excellent suggestion in yesterday’s Herald Letters:

…we might get a bill that assigned all the remaining foreshore and sea bed to Maori customary ownership unless the Crown can prove – over the next six years – that such ownership was legitimately extinguished in certain areas.

Well said, Helen Yensen.

And just a general query, is there any provision in our law that current owners private of our foreshore and seabed must provide free public access or does our law allow those owners to provide access only as they see fit?

If the latter, why shouldn’t Maori operate under the same law?

You know, ONE LAW FOR ALL.
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September 18, 2010 3:33pm
jock

Money boy williams fucked up and the NAKI scored,tats?? a good PR man, and running out on a contract dont bring skills to the all blacks, dont give the jersy to a jerk , MAKE HIM EARN IT
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September 18, 2010 3:35pm
Kris K

MikeNZ 8:52 am,

Here is some reading for the weekend.
When war starts in the summer you’ll be up with the flow.

http://washingtoninstitute.org/pubPDFs/PolicyFocus106.pdf

Had a scim read through the document, Mike – thanks, very interesting.
One of the section headings of the document, Rumours of War, is quite appropriate in more ways than one. There is no question that Israel and Hizballah are moving toward some form of military climax.
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September 18, 2010 3:44pm
MyNameIsJack

hmmm, Israel destroys itself with own nukes? Pillars of salt, n all that.

Still, if it be god’s will …
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September 18, 2010 4:18pm
jock

OHH no money boy williams why checking his hair style, tats and contract FUCKED up again, the NAKI scored.having a good pr agent dosnt make a great rugby player MONEY boy.
MONEY BOY WILLIAMS AND THE SHEEP SHAGGERS ARE FUCKED, MONEY BOY ISNT WORTH THE MONEY, NAKI WINS , money and the sheep shaggers loose, money boy for the ALL BLACKK we luv loosers FUCK THE WORLD CUP,
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September 18, 2010 4:19pm
MyNameIsJack

Neighbourhood policing teams will help tackle crime at its source, by preventing wrongdoing before it happens, Police Minister Judith Collins says.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10674391

Well done, Judith Collins. Well done. I look forward to seeing a policeman on every board and 2 if its a finance company or a bank.
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September 18, 2010 4:21pm
Pete George

Sounds like there could be a lot more to O’Donnell – her similarity to Palin is obvious, and some reaction has been “better than Palin”. Sounds like she can write (or at least read) a good speech and work the crowd – that’s really what frontline politicians have to be able to do these days, actual experience and skills are secondary.

Bear with the long cut and paste. Who knows if she’s an airhead or not, it’s apparent her campaign team have some smarts.

Christine O’Donnell: ‘We’re not trying to take back our country, we are our country’

Republican Senate candidate Christine O’Donnell made her debut on the national stage, delivering a defiant speech on the stage of the Family Research Council’s annual meeting of social conservatives in Washington, D.C.

O’Donnell was greeted with a standing ovation Friday afternoon as she took to the same stage that had been graced earlier in the day by a cadre of potential White House 2012 hopefuls including former Massachusetts governor Mitt Romney (R) and former Arkansas governor Mike Huckabee (R).

O’Donnell spent the bulk of her 18-minute speech taking aim at critics of conservatism and of the “tea party” movement. She kicked off her remarks by asking the crowd to remember back to a year-and-a-half ago when the conservative movement was “told to curl up into fetal position and just stay there the next eight years, thank you very much.”

“How things have changed,” O’Donnell said, to loud applause.

O’Donnell, whose long-shot bid against Castle received the heavy support of national tea party groups, spoke of a “grassroots groundswell, this revolution of reason, this love affair with liberty” and warned the group to gear up against those who would oppose them.

“Will they attack us? Yes. Will they smear our backgrounds and distort our records? Undoubtedly. Will they lie about us, harass our families, name-call and try to intimidate us? They will. There’s nothing safe about it. But is it worth it?” O’Donnell asked.

“I say yes, yes, a thousand times yes,” she continued. “This is no moment for the faint of heart.”

She went on to challenge her critics, telling the several hundred attendees at the summit that opponents are “trying to marginalize us and put us in a box.”

“They’re trying to say we’re taking over this party or that campaign,” O’Donnell said. “They don’t get it. We’re not trying to take back our country, we are our country.”

As she did during her bid against Castle, O’Donnell emphasized the need for limited government and railed against taxes, the Obama administration and health care. On the latter, she hinted at the notion of “death panels,” a discredited claim that took root during the town hall debates on health care reform last summer.

Washington bureaucrats, O’Donnell said, “even want unelected panels of bureaucrats to decide who gets what life-saving medical care.”

And she denounced those who would let the Bush-era tax cuts expire, saying that “the tax hikes coming in January are just another bailout, only this time, the government is bailing out itself.”

O’Donnell made no mention in her speech of former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin (R) or Sen. Jim DeMint (R-S.C.), both of whom gave the candidate a much-needed boost in her race against Castle by endorsing her earlier this month.

She closed by calling the crowd to action, telling them “there are more of us than there are of them.”

“We will be resisted, and we must resist as well,” she added.

“We are our country” may become an iconic quote, no matter that there is a lot more to the country than “we”.
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September 18, 2010 5:03pm
jock

MyNameIsJack (1,510) Says????? WHO GIVES A RATS FUCK:
do you have a life
WANK yourself ,the stress will flow away,WANKER, mnij, A WANKER
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September 18, 2010 5:07pm
hj

Luc Hansen:

There was an excellent suggestion in yesterday’s Herald Letters:
……
You spotted another racial masochist.

“Helen Yensen:

We believe biculturalism training for non-Maori has two major aspects and,
although they overlap in various ways we think that it is useful to separate them:
the first one is awareness of Maori cultural practices, values, etc, which can perhaps
be called ‘cultural sensitivity training’. This needs to be under the control of Maori
and have major input from Maori.
The second aspect is where our focus is, and that is awareness of the effect on
the Maori world of the loss of sovereignty by Maori; of their marginalisation over
the last one hundred and fifty years by Pakeha; of their oppressed status; loss of
economic base, and the implications for change that flow from those events. We
believe that, at least initially, Pakeha have the responsibility for educating
themselves and other pakeha in this area.
There are several reasons for this. The first one is that the main change has to
take place on the Pakeha side. We have to take responsibility for depowering
ourselves and for honouring the Treaty.
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September 18, 2010 5:21pm
hj

Luc Hansens quote:

“And just a general query, is there any provision in our law that current owners private of our foreshore and seabed must provide free public access or does our law allow those owners to provide access only as they see fit?

If the latter, why shouldn’t Maori operate under the same law? ”

Moana Jackson is using the same line that a pakeha can own foreshore as private property but not Maori. The truth is that of those who do own private foreshore and seabed there are Maori and Pakeha and this is a different situation as they are well established (with grudging acceptance). What iddy-biddy iwi are wanting now is to try to invoke the we occupied it in 1840, therefore it is ours rule (way back when there were were about 60,000 to 70,000 people in the whole country).
P.S remember being Maori doesn’t depend entirely on blood but on whakapapa….. and that’s o.k but it sort of weakens the moral argument.
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September 18, 2010 5:33pm
hj

Here’s a good quote for you Luc Hansen:

“In times to come we shall call down curses on the smug spineless short-sighted imbeciles and their Greek chorus of self-righteous well-off holier-than-thou racial masochists for the blight they brought upon the land. ”
http://www.nzcpr.com/guest208.htm

on the other hand your biculturalism may be very nice.
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September 18, 2010 5:42pm
jock

HJ its a good reason for wanking,just a thought
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September 18, 2010 5:59pm
Luc Hansen

hj

I find Yensen compelling, although you are obviously in disagreement with her.

I accept that the present ownership is well established and that it will remain in place, but what you seem to be advocating is two different types of ownership, the only purpose of that being to safeguard “rights” of non-Maori.

The Maori population in 1840 is really irrelevant, although I would counter your insinuation that the numbers you quoted diminish Maori claims by reminding you that at the same time total permanent European population was probably less than 2000.

Maori cannot, in reality, be compensated for all they lost since 1840 through our duplicity and military power, but we can do what they mainly ask for, which is not actually that onerous.

My understanding is that Maori negotiators have always and generously agreed to free access, and since enshrining that in law would be discriminatory, maybe we should just trust them.

What do you say to that?
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September 18, 2010 6:01pm
Luc Hansen

By the way

hj

you may call me Luc

we don’t stand on formality here

Jock

which hand do you prefer?
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September 18, 2010 6:05pm
Steve

New Zealand is not bicultural, we are multi-cultural. But the IWI (I want it) will always create an ‘us and them’ attitude.
Maori now have this mindset of ‘other people in this land owe us a living’ How long before the revolution Dr Peter Sharples?
Oh, he is/was busy in China
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September 18, 2010 6:09pm
Pete George

The stadium collapse in Invercargill must be embarrassing, it is majorly munted. Surely it should have been designed to cope with a modest snowfall and a bit of a southerly.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/southland-times/news/4142629/Stadium-roof-collapses
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September 18, 2010 6:30pm
Luc Hansen

Sorry Steve, but just because you say it is so doesn’t make it so.

We have three official languages in this country. The third is not founded in ethnicity.

MikeNZ and Kris K, these two fundamentalist Christians who wet the bed at the though of killing non-whites – any non-whites will do, but right now it’s the unproven and quite risible concept of “the Iranian threat.”

The Washington Institute is on a par with AIPAC in its unflinching support for the only belligerent nation in the Levant, of not the entire Middle East, Israel.

Stephen Walt questions the presence of WINEP’s members and acolytes in government positions, given their clear bias.

Israel is using these people, and others including Jeffrey Goldberg of the Atlantic, to test the water for support of totally unjustifiable attacks on Leabanon, Gaza and Iran.

While I would welcome a lessening of the sycophantic and counterproductive support Washington accords the thuggish rulers of Israel, such attacks will kill large numbers of ordinary people who have no power to change anything in the geo-political world.

And how and why did Hizbollah form? In the face of Israeli occupation of southern Lebanon. To think Hizbollah poses an existential threat is Israel is as fantastical as me dreaming that a well-directed wink would have Carla Bruni fall passionately into my arms.

But Israel will continue its provocations, as it always has.
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September 18, 2010 6:38pm
MyNameIsJack

jock (11) Says:

September 18th, 2010 at 5:07 pm
MyNameIsJack (1,510) Says????? WHO GIVES A RATS FUCK:
do you have a life
WANK yourself ,the stress will flow away

As you well know, Petey.
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September 18, 2010 6:38pm
Hurf Durf

RE Christine O’Donnell:

I hope some day I become so important that something I said on a music video channel 14 years ago gets hysterically reported and becomes a major part of the day’s political news cycle.
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September 18, 2010 6:39pm
krazykiwi

fundamentalist Christians who wet the bed at the though of killing non-whites – any non-whites will do

You are the most disgusting person I’ve never met. Truely. You’re a disgrace. I pity your daughter having to grow up under the care of a man so obviously full of hatred, malice and with a world view that is so warped.
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September 18, 2010 6:43pm
joana

It was not a modest snowfall.
The Presbyterian Church and the Salvation Army have both been involved in covering the tracks of their own sexual abusing staff. I knew the old man formerly on the staff of the Pres. orphanage..there was so much prevaricating that he was never charged. No justice for his victims.
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September 18, 2010 6:44pm
Hurf Durf

KK – it’s always funny when the most racist person here decries racism (he who couldn’t care less about Indonesian muslims being killed by their own government there). I think it’s some kind of Gallowayite neo-Stockholm Syndrome. I wonder if he’s Yvonne Ridley in drag.
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September 18, 2010 6:49pm
Steve

Luc Hansen (1,933) Says:

September 18th, 2010 at 6:38 pm
Sorry Steve, but just because you say it is so doesn’t make it so.

Now where did I mention language Hansen?
I was talking of people from all over the World who make NZ multicultural, not the language they speak.
Three official languages? sure, English, Sign, and Maori (Maori is forced on us whether we like it or not)

So you do not recognise immigrants? just Maori and all those others that are non-Maori. Bit racist don’t you think?
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September 18, 2010 6:56pm
Kris K

Luc Hansen 6:38 pm,

Kiwiblog DOES NOT have a resident anti-Semite … Kiwiblog DOES NOT have a resident anti-Semite … Kiwiblog DOES NOT have a resident anti-Semite …

Repeat until the statement becomes true.

Luc’s motto:
“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.”
… luckily, we’re onto you, Luc.
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September 18, 2010 7:11pm
joe90

Lots from the resident Islamaphobe though Kris but given that you’re parroting others…..

The Talibanization of America

Instead, when we try to explain what is happening in America, we simply say that a great country is going through a kind of Talibanization — led by mullahs like Newt Gingrich, Pamela Geller, and the occasional Terry Jones.
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September 18, 2010 7:23pm
Luc Hansen

Kris K

You and your mates here are the most non-Christian Europeans I know, and that’s saying a lot. IAs I have said before, I don’t mind what religion people belong to. We ALL have equal rights as humans and Israel’s rulers (nearly all atheists, by the way) deny that to Palestinians. It’s so simple even you could understand it if you tried.

Hurf, you don’t know what else I care about, so don’t project.

Ah, Steve, NZ is a bi-cultural nation – that’s the point of informing you about our languages. Did you learn something?
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September 18, 2010 7:24pm
Hurf Durf

joe90, get back in your bubble so you can wank off to the WaPo-owned links that only you care about.
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September 18, 2010 7:31pm
Steve

Can’t count past two (2) Luc, you need a teacher, don’t rely on a NZ teacher
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September 18, 2010 7:34pm
Luc Hansen

Jeez Steve, at least HD can be funny!

Now guys, Jon Stewart is having a rally in Washington Oct 30, same venue as MLK.

My wife says I can go if you all get together and pay my fare.

C’mon, you never know, Mossad might get lucky!
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September 18, 2010 7:39pm
joe90

Just for you hurf.
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September 18, 2010 7:39pm
Steve

Luc, get stuffed.
I like people from all over the World. Asians, Indians, Europeans, Africans, all over the norther hemisphere.
Many NEW ZEALANDERS do not like the way NZ is going. The so called ‘indigenous’ people have the hand out and expect a living from those silly enough to pay, then extort it by LAW.
That is RACIST
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September 18, 2010 7:51pm
joe90

Hey there little Stevie, maybe yourself and wee Hurfie can hold hands and head off to the Delaware Masturbators March.
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September 18, 2010 7:56pm
Hurf Durf

At least you’ve bothered to interact outside your little bubble now Joeypoos, though you might need more nappy training in getting off the crap links.
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September 18, 2010 8:01pm
Steve

Maori should get paid to masturbate, should get the DPB numbers down instead of using DPB as an income.
Joe 90, yeah remember that mind control stuff?
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September 18, 2010 8:03pm
joe90

Well at least it’s not of a stream of invective. And Mr Marionette Hurfie, Mr Marionette.
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September 18, 2010 8:07pm
Hurf Durf

You run out of links, Joe? One might say that you’ve shot your load lolololololololololol
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September 18, 2010 8:13pm
Redbaiter

He’s a coward with nothing but smears that he’s too illiterate to utter himself. I’ve only ever had one exchange with him on here and his writing, if it exceeded more than one sentence, was incoherent irrational rubbish. He’s probably only twelve or something, or at least at a similar mental age.
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September 18, 2010 8:16pm
reid

“Maori should get paid to masturbate”

Steve I never figured you for a racist.

Why don’t we all get to be paid to masturbate?
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September 18, 2010 8:31pm
Hurf Durf

Why not indeed, reid? It’s a growth industry.
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September 18, 2010 8:34pm
Pete George

That would discriminate against the Catholics. Theoretically, with the Catholic directives against abortion, masturbation and birth control their population should be booming. Or is it counterbalanced by their active suppression of anything sexually enjoyable?
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September 18, 2010 8:44pm
hj

LUC:

“I accept that the present ownership is well established and that it will remain in place, but what you seem to be advocating is two different types of ownership, the only purpose of that being to safeguard “rights” of non-Maori. ”
……….
Summary of the parcels that adjoin the foreshore
owned by the Crown 7,455km 37.64%
owned by territorial authorities 6,239km 31.42%
General land 3,979km 20.05% (eroded parcels 199)
Maori land 2,053km 10.35% (eroded parcels 9)
Unresolved 107km 0.54%

so it isn’t just the rights of Pakeha owners of land adjacent to foreshore and seabed, it is a 20% (of total- excludes crown and teritorial authorites) Pakeha and 10.35 % Maori.
————————————————————————————
“The Maori population in 1840 is really irrelevant, although I would counter your insinuation that the numbers you quoted diminish Maori claims by reminding you that at the same time total permanent European population was probably less than 2000.”

So you take the view that NZ was the property of Maori collectives , (no matter how sparse their numbers) and that means that today it belongs to those with whakapa, and the remainder are guests (or fee payers) and of lower status. This is your higher moral position?
……………………………………………………………………
“Maori cannot, in reality, be compensated for all they lost since 1840 through our duplicity and military power, but we can do what they mainly ask for, which is not actually that onerous.”
……….
What they “lost since 1840” is rather in their heads. An expert in Maori affairs (Professor Margaret Mutu) testifys to this when she says that her tribes territory extends as far as Tahiti and they would fight to the death to defend it (her mother is Scottish).

You would call being a second class citizen or forced to engage in a culture that evolved in an isolated corner of the world “not actually that onerous” . Maori culture dictates that only those with whakapapa can hold “mana whenua” to particular areas = permanently higher status. I prefer to pick and choose my cultural values.
………………………………………………………………………..
My understanding is that Maori negotiators have always and generously agreed to free access, and since enshrining that in law would be discriminatory, maybe we should just trust them.

What do you say to that?
…………
When I was about 8 with a group of mothers and kids, having walked far enough, we walked down to Rapaki Beach (Lyttelton). A group of boys came out and threw stones at us. No one came and politely told us that this was a private beach.
People should be highly suspicious of institutions based on (eg) “Maori negotiators have always and generously agreed to free access”. Maori are good, bad and indifferent, the same as everyone else.
Putting Iwi names on beaches would instantly make foreigners out of the rest of the population.
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September 18, 2010 9:40pm
jackp

Krazykiwi, you are right. In Parliament Finlayson is being evasive about the word FREE in the new bill. But to the media he is saying the beaches will be free to the public. He even responded to a letter I wrote to the editor of HBtoday. He said all access will be free. When the public start to see that this is a false statement for reasons you had said, it’ll be too late. Finlayson will just say “sorry” but he won’t be in office then and the public is too fragmented to do anything about it. They’ll just mosey on like sheep on their way to slaughter. Anyway, Finlayson is a list mp and a lawyer for iwi. He has a vested interest because he will be on Maori side when out of office. He has job security. The odds are against the taxpayers. I never respected Finlayson after I heard him speak to a group of us. He was arrogant, angry,defensive because the questions asked him were exposing the true nature of this bill.
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September 19, 2010 6:57am

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