General Debate 15 September 2010

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ciaron

Woo Hoo!
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September 15, 2010 8:06am
Rufus

darn
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September 15, 2010 8:07am
WebWrat

http://barenakedislam.wordpress.com/2010/09/14/hey-everybody-lets-all-wear-i-am-a-muslim-pins-to-protest-islamophobia/
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September 15, 2010 8:11am
Rodders

Another article in the NZ Herald about the Hospital from Hell

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10673540
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September 15, 2010 8:11am
MikeNZ

Well done Ciaron, enjoy it. Next time Rufus. 🙂

This got me remembering a holiday last July in Rarotonga.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/ambroseevans_pritchard/7997910/The-backlash-begins-against-the-world-landgrab.html

As is by now well-known, sovereign wealth funds from the Mid-East, as well as state-entities from China, the Pacific Rim, and even India are trying to lock up chunks of the world’s future food supply. Western agribusiness is trying to beat them to it. Western funds – many listed on London’s AIM exchange – are in turn trying to beat them. The NGO GRAIN, and farmlandgrab.com, have both documented the stampede in detail.

Hedge funds that struck rich ‘shorting’ US sub-prime have rotated into the next great play of our era: ‘long’ soil. “Productive agricultural land with water on site, will be very valuable in the future. And I’ve put a good amount of money into that,” said Michael Burry, star of ‘The Big Short’.

Why don’t we change our laws to those of Rarotonga whereby only citizens can own the land all others get 99 yr leases?
It can work retrospectively in that all existing non citizen owners would have to sell to a citizen to realise the property.
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September 15, 2010 8:27am
WebWrat

http://idiots4obama.blogspot.com/2010/09/is-he-right-gingrich-slammed-for-saying.html
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September 15, 2010 8:34am
ciaron

Just waiting for the media shitstorm……..

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10673525
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September 15, 2010 8:47am
JohnG

Another sad story here:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/canterbury-earthquake/4129268/Half-measure-compounds-familys-misery

Seemed odd to me so have just checked my own house policy that clearly states “Full replacement cost (limited to a floor area of 373 square metres)”. When buying the house I recall making my own rough measurements to make sure this floor area was right. Mine is an AMI policy; maybe Tower doesn’t spell it out as clearly… that might make a difference. So while I have a great deal of sympathy for the Johnsons’ plight, if they’ve been in their home seven years they will have had probably six renewal notices with premiums matched to the sum insured. Or am I being unfair?
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September 15, 2010 9:08am
Paul Marsden

More reasons why global warming is the world’s biggest con, disguised as the biggest tax grab ever perpetrated by politicians, the world has ever seen.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=guaranteed-global-warming-with-existing-fossil-fuel-infrastructure&sc=WR_20100914
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September 15, 2010 9:10am
gazzmaniac

Just a question re Whale Oil’s conviction –
If I (an Australian resident) post something that’s suppressed by a NZ court on an Australian website, is that breaking NZ law? It’s published offshore? What if Whale links to it from his site?
If Whale posts something on an Australian website is that illegal? Again what if Whale links to it from his NZ site?
If I decide to set up an offshore blog that publishes NZ suppression orders, will I be arrested at the border next time I try to enter NZ?

Just some thoughts.
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September 15, 2010 9:17am
Pete George

So while I have a great deal of sympathy for the Johnsons’ plight, if they’ve been in their home seven years they will have had probably six renewal notices with premiums matched to the sum insured. Or am I being unfair?

No, you are not being unfair. This is tough on them but ultimately we are responsible for our own insurance. Banks are mainly interested in making sure there is enough cover for their mortgage. There are bound to be quite a few bad/sad luck insurance stories.

I presume they have checked if the EQ cover could make up the difference, maybe it doesn’t work that way.

It’s easy just to pay up insurance each year, but this could be a good prompt to check our own insurance to ensure it covers what we want it to cover.
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September 15, 2010 9:22am
krazykiwi

@Paul – correct. It’s so obvious and there are plenty of ‘from the houses mouth’ sources to comfirm this. Example:

The concept of national sovereignty has been immutable,
indeed a sacred principle of international relations.
It is a principle which will yield only slowly and reluctantly to
the new imperatives of global environmental cooperation.

— UN Commission on Global Governance
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September 15, 2010 9:24am
Rodders

I saw about a dozen striking secondary school teachers at the local shops. I will toot in support when they strike to demand performance based pay, but not until then.
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September 15, 2010 9:37am
Murray

Greedy teachers. Everyone is in a recession but they don’t want it to effect them.

Call me when they’re ready to face some accountability at their end of the arrangement.
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September 15, 2010 9:41am
nickb

Burqa ban passed into law in France:

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/09/14/france.burqa.ban/index.html?hpt=T1

What I found fascinating is that a majority of Americans oppose such a ban by 2:1.
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September 15, 2010 9:44am
ciaron

for anyone having a bad day…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrNbLBS1D2Q&feature=related
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September 15, 2010 9:55am
djg

Slater should insist on the courts and the media using the correct name of his blog.
I would just love to hear the judge have to say it over and over again, complete with accent!!!!!
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September 15, 2010 9:58am
MikeNZ

Nickb
In a liberal democracy everyone should show their face, transparency should be the watchword especially for leadership who set the example.
Don’t understand the 2:1 in US against burqa as they are starting to get it, about creeping sharia.
Maybe when they are further down the road like Uk and France or have the social problems with Muslim immigrants as do the other states. It might even be the increased violence and terrorism Europe has had.
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September 15, 2010 10:05am
ciaron

He shoud have asked for suppression then leaked all the details on his blog.
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September 15, 2010 10:07am
krazykiwi

er, um, 9:24, that should have been “from the horse’s mouth” 🙂
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September 15, 2010 10:25am
Pete George

In a liberal democracy everyone should show their face, transparency should be the watchword

Mike who?
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September 15, 2010 10:31am
Kris K

krazykiwi 10:25 am,

er, um, 9:24, that should have been “from the horse’s mouth”

Shouldn’t “houses” have the right to freedom of speech, too?
You bloody House-ophobes really get on my goat. 😉

Next you’ll be saying houses are not permitted to have a full paint covering – my mother warned me about people like you.
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September 15, 2010 10:57am
Inventory2

I thought it was only Labour MP’s who told us what to do but didn’t do it themselves ….

http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2010/09/do-as-i-say.html
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September 15, 2010 11:06am
Pete George

Kris, there was an SDA family where I grew up, and the story going around was that they didn’t bother to paint their house (it noticeably did not have a full paint covering) because the end was nigh so there wasn’t any point.
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September 15, 2010 11:17am
Kris K

Pete G[e]orge 11:17 am,

… obviously Muslims, on the other hand, would make “full paint covering” compulsory for (female) houses – even if the Mahdi was due next week.
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September 15, 2010 11:32am
MyNameIsJack

djg (36) Says:

September 15th, 2010 at 9:58 am
Slater should insist on the courts and the media using the correct name of his blog.

You mean GOTCHA? I think the judge would love to say that over and over again.
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September 15, 2010 12:03pm
Pete George

Seems to be a bit of a media obsession (One-upmanship?) with Garrett at the moment:

Garrett evades question on fake identity

ONE News understood Garrett has been discharged without conviction on a charge of creating a false identity.

Garrett said: “I will comment on that later today.”
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September 15, 2010 12:31pm
Repton

Burqa ban passed into law in France:

Funny thing is, it won’t have much effect. The vast majority of France’s muslims don’t wear the burqa anyway.

Critics say the law exploits a non-problem – only about 1900 women among France’s five to six million Muslims wear a veil – in a bid to pander to anti-immigration voters and to distract attention from France’s economic woes.

Most French Muslims come from France’s former colonies in North and West Africa, where wearing the veil is rare, rather than from the Arabian peninsula or Pakistan where niqabs and burqas are a cultural tradition.

http://www.theage.com.au/world/french-parliament-approves-burqa-ban-20100714-109uq.html
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September 15, 2010 1:35pm
Brian Smaller

David Garret needs to resign immediately. His 3 strikes initiative may have been watered down to what was made law but it was still a good idea. However, the latest admission from the man is red card material.
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September 15, 2010 2:22pm
Brian Smaller

Repton – then the thousands of non-problematic yoofs wont engage in a mass car-b-que this weekend after Friday prayers?
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September 15, 2010 2:24pm
Pete George

Mr Garrett said he had applied for the passport as a prank – to see if it could be done – and had never used the passport, which had since expired.

He applied for and kept the passport (without using it)? That sounds a bit more than a prank.

This is another double whammy for Act. I don’t think Garrett is good for Act, even more so now, but one has to wonder whether there is a concerted effort going on to knock the balance off power of his perch. Not a happy camp.

Do Act suppoort name suppression?
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September 15, 2010 2:33pm
krazykiwi

Funny thing is, it won’t have much effect. The vast majority of France’s muslims don’t wear the burqa anyway.

Spend a couple of days in and around Seine-Saint-Denis. I have a relative who lives not far from there and apparently Burqa’s are a very common sight
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September 15, 2010 2:38pm
MyNameIsJack

What name was the passport in? Frank Costanza? he could pull it off.
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September 15, 2010 2:38pm
MyNameIsJack

krazykiwi (6,408) Says:

September 15th, 2010 at 2:38 pm

Spend a couple of days in and around Seine-Saint-Denis. I have a relative who lives not far from there and apparently Burqa’s are a very common sight

Burqa’s what are a common site?
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September 15, 2010 2:39pm
Redbaiter

All the Progressives out to get Garret because he isn’t one of them and he doesn’t buy into their world view. That is the price you have to pay if you stand openly against them.
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September 15, 2010 2:39pm
Brian Smaller

Pete George – Garret has to resign. If for no other reason so that John Campbel doesn’t cum in his pants on his show tonight from over-excitement.
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September 15, 2010 2:41pm
Brian Smaller

Sorry Red – Garret is spoilt now. Act need to flush the dunny and move on. They need a seat or 5% in 2011 and this is not helping.
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September 15, 2010 2:43pm
Pete George

There is a positive from this – Garrett got a false passport in 1984, and “was arrested along with others following closer scrutiny of identity fraud because of a case involving Israeli agents” – and went to court in court in 2005. The passport was by then expired – so it seems like a reasonably effective purge of bad passport holders.

I agree that Garrett is thoroughly toxic for Act now – who is next on the list, and who would they back in caucus?
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September 15, 2010 2:45pm
Fot

I am a strong supporter of ACT, however, Garrett has to go.

Closely followed by Hide I would hope.
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September 15, 2010 2:51pm
toad

Anyone surprised Cameron Slater didn’t out Garrett as a passport fraudster as part of the campaign against name suppression?
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September 15, 2010 2:56pm
Fot

Anybody surprised that Toad is making a big issue of this?

Anybody surprised that Toad is happy to overlook the hundreds of convictions that Sue Bradford had against her name.?

Typical Green party hypocrisy.
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September 15, 2010 3:03pm
toad

Fot, Bradford didn’t have “hundreds”, and what’s more she didn’t behave like a hypocrite by attempting to hide them.
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September 15, 2010 3:06pm
Pete George

http://www.davidgarrett.org.nz/2010/06/16/name-suppression-needs-review/
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September 15, 2010 3:06pm
krazykiwi

Another statist legacy:

UK: The myth of the underpaid public sector worker

Public sector workers are paid more on average than those in the private sector, according to the first comprehensive analysis of the pay divide by Britain’s national statistician.

The Office for National Statistics found that full-time public sector staff earned an average of £74 a week more than those in the private sector. Once employer pension contributions were included, the gap rose to £136, illustrating the generous pay-and-perks deals enjoyed by local and central government workers.

The findings threaten to undermine calls by the Trades Union Congress at its conference in Manchester this week for “civil disobedience” and co-ordinated strike action in protest against the Government’s planned public sector spending cuts.
:::
In its September Economic and Labour Market Review, published yesterday, the national statistician reported that the average weekly salary for public sector workers in April last year was £539, compared with £465 in the private sector.

The difference was more stark when pensions were included because fewer than half of the private sector workforce were enrolled in a retirement scheme, compared with nearly all in the public sector – many of which are taxpayer-subsidised final salary schemes paying two thirds of working income for life. Including employer pension contributions, the total average remuneration package for the public sector was worth £615 a week and £479 for a private sector worker. Mark Littlewood, the director-general of the Institute of Economic Affairs think tank, said the report illustrated “just how preposterous” the TUC’s claims were.

This suggests the UK’s public service trough is 28% more luxurious than private enterprise.
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September 15, 2010 3:08pm
krazykiwi

Indeed toad. Bradford once said:

I am just as proud of my convictions as I am of the other parts of my CV

Good example for a leader? Only for anarchists.
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September 15, 2010 3:11pm
hj

What sort of threshold do the Greens want when proving Maori customary rights?

M.P. David Clendon:
“This Act is essentially the same as Labour’s Act. It undermines the Treaty relationship, and sets down a unreasonably high threshold for proving Maori customary rights. It doesn’t really restore access to the courts because it overrules the common law and replaces it with restrictive tests,” said Mr Clendon.

“It is only fair that Maori common law rights to go to court should be restored, and the public should be guaranteed the right to access all the foreshore not just the parts associated with Maori. This bill does not achieve either of these goals.”
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1009/S00227/greens-to-oppose-discriminatory-foreshore-bill.htm

What are common law customary rights?

These are rights, interests, practices and activities exercised by Maori prior to the acquisition of sovereignty by the Crown (although there is a strong argument that that sovereignty was never ceded only kawanatanga). The basis of common law aboriginal title is the legal recognition of the continuity of aboriginal property rights upon the Crown’s acquisition of sovereignty. Native title is neither an institution of the common law but is recognised by the common law. Therefore they exist prior to the Treaty (but are guaranteed by it).
http://www.greens.org.nz/factsheets/foreshore-and-seabed-faqs

At the 2002 Green Party conference Turei put a remit forward calling for the Greens to endorse the “Maori” version of the Treaty Of Waitangi.
http://www.britannica.com/bps/additionalcontent/18/37180151/GREENS-FACE-OBILIVION
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September 15, 2010 3:12pm
Fot

So what you are saying Toad is that any conviction against by a low life communist like Bradford does not matter but that any conviction against anybody from the right is a huge controversy.

Unlike you people we want our crooks gone, we do not defend their actions.
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September 15, 2010 3:13pm
hj

Toad Says:
Anyone surprised Cameron Slater didn’t out Garrett as a passport fraudster as part of the campaign against name suppression?
……
people in glass houses…….
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September 15, 2010 3:19pm
stephen

Anyone surprised Cameron Slater didn’t out Garrett as a passport fraudster as part of the campaign against name suppression?

How on earth would he have found that out? 26 years ago and all.
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September 15, 2010 3:23pm
RightNow

I think it is now time for all MP’s (and candidates at the beginning of campaign time) to be made to disclose any criminal charges ever laid against them. Sunshine please.
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September 15, 2010 3:25pm
Pete George

How on earth would he have found that out?

How on earth did TVNZ find out? How does Whale find out about a lot of things?

26 years ago and all.

5 years and all. Name suppressed in 2005 when it came to court.
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September 15, 2010 3:26pm
krazykiwi

@RightNow – I can think of a few charges that should have been laid… but, somehow, it was never in the public interest to prosecute.
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September 15, 2010 3:27pm
hj

Toad, would you explain the Green Party position on the foreshore and seabed. As Chris Trotter says:

“For who can dispute that, at one time, the entire geographical entity we call New Zealand was the property of Maori collectivities? ”

and the Greens are wanting recognition of this aboriginal title (which becomes customary title under common law)?
If tests for customary title are made easier (which is what MP David Clendon is asking for) how much more coastline, and which beaches would be owned by iwi and hapu?
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September 15, 2010 3:31pm
Pete George

My preliminary legal advice is that for this reason neither I nor anyone else may comment further on this matter outside of the house at this time.

So legally we shouldn’t be discussing a certain topic? Except the online news is full of it.
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September 15, 2010 3:36pm
RightNow

“how much more coastline, and which beaches would be owned by iwi and hapu?” and what benefit would poor Maori receive? Or would it be another round of increasing the rich/poor divide among Maori?
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September 15, 2010 3:40pm
MikeNZ

Says: Repton
September 15th, 2010 at 1:35 pm

Its the principle that matters not the numbers.
It is a line in the sand.
When every democracy in the world has effected the same then we might see some traction on other aspects of Sharia from them at the UN and elsewhere.
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September 15, 2010 3:40pm
RightNow

Pete “So legally we shouldn’t be discussing…” – I wondered about this, how was it that a) the information got into the public domain and b) the repeaters were able to outline the details of what they knew without breaching the suppression order?
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September 15, 2010 3:42pm
Redbaiter

“Sorry Red – Garret is spoilt now. Act need to flush the dunny and move on. They need a seat or 5% in 2011 and this is not helping.”

No Brian, we have to stand firm against this kind of victimisation from the left. If we are going to cave every time John Campbell squawks his empty commie head off we might as well fold our tents tight now and start flying the red flag.

To assert that something that a man did so many years ago should be reason for him to resign from parliament on the grounds that it is of equivalent import to the vicious and savage crimes committed by the violent amoral psycopaths out there and that Garret is trying to fight against is just bullshit of the first order.

This is nothing more than an attempt by the gutless liberals who foul up ACT and every other party (and every other part of NZ) to get one of their political enemies. Its driven by propaganda and fake outrage and we must learn not to be so influenced by the useless mainstream media. They’re progressives- fuck em and fuck what they say. I say they can fuck off and let Garret get on with his job. The day I’m found on the same side as that useless charlatan and fake ‘journalist” Campbell is the day I hold a pistol to my forehead and pull the trigger.
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September 15, 2010 3:52pm
Pete George

RightNow at 3.42 pm
a) probably because someone has been whispering, and then TVNZ (Espiner) forced Garret’s hand
b) because they are allowed to report what’s been said in the house? If so it’s another twist to suppression laws

RB – are you forgetting the possibility that this is a result of Act fouling it’s own nest? Could be an inside job. At least they’ve been even handed, one to TV1, one to TV3.
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September 15, 2010 3:52pm
RightNow

The problem though Pete is that this was in the news before he made his statement in the house:

It was clarified for Garrett, a former barrister, that ONE News understood the MP had been discharged without conviction on a charge of creating a false identity. Garrett said: “I will comment on that later today.”

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/4130949/MP-used-dead-childs-birth-certificate
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September 15, 2010 4:03pm
RightNow

And

After a long pause Garrett replied: “Pleaded guilty to any other charges in New Zealand… what are you talking about exactly?”

Espiner clarified for Garrett, a former barrister, that ONE News understood Garrett has been discharged without conviction on a charge of creating a false identity.

http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/act-mp-garrett-used-dead-baby-s-id-3779759

In light of Whaleoil’s convictions I wonder just how legit Espiner / One News have been?
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September 15, 2010 4:06pm
Pete George

I think it sounds highly suspect, but the media can make their own rules.

That meant an ever-bigger troupe of harried journalists in desperate pursuit of the prime minister’s motorcade, lest they be left behind, clueless, heaven only knows where. Quite a few of them rushed through orange lights to try to keep up. And that inevitably led to a grim-faced dressing down from a burly member of Key’s team for ”unacceptable driving”.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/national/blogs/tracy-watkins-on-politics/4131157/The-earthquake-circus

I presume there won’t be any major media scrutiny of this lawbreaking, or pointing out of hypocrisy.
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September 15, 2010 4:09pm
RightNow

“Garret is spoilt now” – actually I see this more of part of the tempering process on his way to forging one of our better politicians. It’s helping take some of the rough edges off him, but the steel should be stronger because of it.
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September 15, 2010 4:11pm
eszett

Interesting question, RightNow.
Looks very much like an inside job, two hits on Garrett in quick succession.

Garrett could of course try to sue TVNZ for breach of name suppression.
However that would be a tad hypocritical, wouldn’t it?

This is what is so astonishing about this whole story. If Garrett would have fronted up right from the start, I doubt they would have hurt him much, if at all.

But it is the fact that he had been trying to hide them which makes it look bad.
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September 15, 2010 4:18pm
grumpyoldhori

The Burqa, fuck it should be bloody compulsory for a lot of so called xtian women, have you noticed how bloody ugly those four chin brethren women are.
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September 15, 2010 4:18pm
RRM

^^^ In general I think you are right, it is usually considered better to start with a radical concept and tame it down to something fit for mass-production, than to start with a dull boring safe design and then try to sex it up a bit in a hope that people will want to buy.

But you can see by ACT’s party vote, roughly how many people are interested in voting for an outspoken drunken boor who makes people in bars want to thump him. It ain’t many.
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September 15, 2010 4:20pm
excusesofpuppets

Who elected dorks like David Garrett into Parliament?

Shame that a vote for Rodney seems to also be a vote for the other twerps too. Garrett needs to go for the good of what is left of that party.
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September 15, 2010 4:26pm
Fot

“roughly how many people are interested in voting for an outspoken drunken boor who makes people in bars want to thump him. It ain’t many.”

Are you talking about Trevor Mallard, John Hatfield or David Garrett?
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September 15, 2010 4:27pm
hj

Toad here’s one for Frogblog (of which I’m censored)

“In other words, Labour is planning to do what John Key did in relation to Section 59: preserve its social-liberal credentials by piggy-backing on it’s rival’s determination to pass an unpopular measure no-matter-what. No doubt they’re calculating that such a show of bi-partisan support will leave their MPs unscathed; Maori voters in a more forgiving frame of mind; and their extra-parliamentary opponents with nowhere to go.

Perhaps. But every time the two major political parties behave in this way they dramatically increase the levels of anger and alienation in the broader electorate. Worse still, they engender a sense of betrayal, and the conviction that there is indeed such a thing as “the political class” – an arrogant and self-congratulatory elite with nothing but contempt for the opinions and aspirations of ordinary people.”
http://bowalleyroad.blogspot.com/2010/09/sowing-dragons-teeth.html
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September 15, 2010 4:28pm
mattyroo

grumpyracistbastard said:

The Burqa, fuck it should be bloody compulsory for a lot of so called xtian women, have you noticed how bloody ugly those four chin brethren women are.

About as ugly as all the useless maori, with their moko tattooed on their face, dressed in trackpants and a hoodie, standing around behaving thuggishly outside the WINZ office every time I go past.

Despicable creatures.
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September 15, 2010 4:31pm
RightNow

“But it is the fact that he had been trying to hide them which makes it look bad.” – I’m wondering what constitutes ‘trying to hide’ something. As I understand it he didn’t deny anything when asked, so how is that hiding it? What are the rules about this sort of thing – must an MP declare somewhere any convictions they have? Must they declare any charges/ arrests that didn’t end in a conviction?
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September 15, 2010 4:39pm
Pete George

I can understand him not wanting to declare it, and perhaps hope that name suppression would keep it out of the public arena. But I’m finding it increasingly difficult to understand why Act put him at 5 on the list – it seems that Hide at least was informed of both of this week’s revelations. Why take that sort of a risk?
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September 15, 2010 4:44pm
grumpyoldhori

mattyroo see, told you they were useful 🙂
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September 15, 2010 4:55pm
grumpyoldhori

I wonder if some manual worker would have got discharged with no conviction for doing what Garrett did ?
And of course with name suppression the parents could not go to the media to state what the prick had done.
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September 15, 2010 5:01pm
Jimbob

Have we as a country dropped to such lows as to thinking that David Garrett is the sort of material we need in Parliament? People know between right and wrong, it is obvious Mr. Garrett does not. So I am sorry he is not fit for Parliament.
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September 15, 2010 5:02pm
krazykiwi

@grumpyoldhori:

The Burqa, fuck it should be bloody compulsory for a lot of so called xtian women, have you noticed how bloody ugly those four chin brethren women are.

You’re a disgrace to Maoridom. I hope no one looks up to you.
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September 15, 2010 5:06pm
jock

Folks remember 15-9-2010, this is the day our grinning (i love those who create my future wealth) PM gave NZ to the maoris in exchange for keeping his useless arse on the PMs seat.HONE KEY a national disgrace. REMEMBER NEXT ELECTION DO NOT ENCOURAGE THEM( DONT VOTE,) as they DONT LISTERN to their voters.
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September 15, 2010 5:58pm
krazykiwi

And in other news I see thatGeorge Michael is off to prison for a few weeks. Perhaps he could sing rendition of Wham’s hit Freedom to his prison buddies.
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September 15, 2010 6:01pm
hj

Kevin Hague mistakenly says:
“New Zealand has a long history and association with the sea. Māori have a proud history of a respectful coexistence with the domain of Tangaroa. Rāhui were tools that restricted the harvest of kai moana, Tapu existed both around pollution and harmful harvesting methods. Unfortunately those initial ideals where compromised by an influx of Sealers then Whalers”
…..
Get your facts right.
In the first two centuries of settlement, Māori were more often seal hunters than moa hunters. There is evidence of extensive sealing in the far north, Coromandel, Taranaki, Cook Strait, the Canterbury coast and the south from Waitaki to Fiordland. However, by the 1700s seals were confined to the far south
http://www.teara.govt.nz/EarthSeaAndSky/HarvestingTheSea/Sealing/1/en
http://blog.greens.org.nz/2010/09/15/under-the-sea/#comment-151447
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September 15, 2010 6:19pm
WebWrat

He thinks there should be a victory mosque right smack dab in the middle of Ground Zero.

http://barenakedislam.wordpress.com/2010/09/14/america-hater-michael-moore-doesnt-think-there-should-be-a-victory-mosque-near-ground-zero/#comments
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September 15, 2010 7:07pm
nickb

I have a question for my fellow kb legal eagles.

I remeber learning back in law school about the Bradbury & Muir v Westpac case in legal ethics.

I remember the Court of Appeal having some quite unflattering things to say about the merits of the case and Dr Muir as the main driver of it.

The other day I was doing a bit of research in the tax field and was highly amused to find that this same guy was also one of the chief architects of the Trinity scheme, and got slammed by the Venning J in the HC judgment.

I assume by the end of this case his financial and professional life would of been in tatters (same goes for Bradbury) but does anyone know whether he ever faced any discplinary action from the Law society?
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September 15, 2010 7:13pm
Hurf Durf

What I found fascinating is that a majority of Americans oppose such a ban by 2:1.

BUT DER’S AN UNTI-MUZZLEM BAKLASH IN DER OONITD STATES!!111

Christ, what’s up with Close Up this week? First some shit about those dumbass sailors fucking off to Egypt to make a point (if they get intercepted by the Israelis and mown down don’t expect me to have a grain of sympathy) and now some crap glorifying some eco-Marxist. What do they do for an encore?
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September 15, 2010 8:37pm
Rodders

David Cunliffe has resumed his poetry writing

Politics With, Not For

This makes Pam Ayres seem like Lord Byron, in comparison.

[DPF: I thought it was a manifesto for his leadership bid]
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September 15, 2010 8:42pm
Hurf Durf

Godzone leftards going batshit on Shitter. It’s like watch chimps get excited over the first bunch of bananas in a month. It’s been a sad, lonely two years.
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September 15, 2010 8:51pm
Tauhei Notts

nickb at 7.13 p.m.
Please expand upon that Bradbury & Muir versus Westpac case. I have forgotten all about it, but some morsels from you should help me recall it.
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September 15, 2010 9:05pm
nickb

Tauhei, a summary to the best of my knowledge:

Westpac is supplied specialised legal services by Bradbury & Muir on an open ended retainer.

Westpac unilaterally cancels the retainer (why I cannot remember) and engages another firm.

Bradbury & Muir drag them through the Courts for a number of years. The HC and CA is highly critical, claiming they have no reasonble cause of action and they are abusing process.

The CA eventually ends up awarding almost full costs against them, a very unusual step these days.
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September 15, 2010 9:20pm
WebWrat

“The media’s coverage of the 9th anniversary of the Muslim murder of 3,000 people was overshadowed by their panicked coverage of the possibility that Terry Jones, the pastor of a tiny Florida church, might actually burn the Koran. Last week Newsweek ran Fareed Zakaria’s piece insisting that Americans overreacted to 9/11. So instead the media showed us where their priorities lie, by shortchanging the dead, ignoring their killers and instead turning the pastor of a small Florida church into a villain for even talking about the possibility of torching a book, whose contents helped inspire 9/11. It’s as if on Holocaust Memorial Day, the key topic of discussion was not the murder of 6,000,000 Jews, but a protester who wanted to get his Bic lighter close to Mein Kampf.”

http://sultanknish.blogspot.com/2010/09/burn-koran-or-constitution.html
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September 15, 2010 10:11pm
Luc Hansen

Talking about the Holocaust, I see those Europeans are at it again, with France expelling at least 1000 Roma per month since the middle of last year. When will they learn? These people are like the Bedouin of the Middle East – they are nomads who actually add colour and variety to our monochromatic lives. I say leave them be. Singling people out on the basis of ethnicity is pure victimisation and racism – just more white supremacy writ large.

Now the EU is putting the pressure on Sarkozy to cease and desist. I guess the next step for Sarkozy is to build gas chambers?

Where do all the Zionist, white supremacist, supporters stand on this one?
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September 15, 2010 10:28pm
Luc Hansen

What’s happened to comments editor tonight? Gone on strike?
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September 15, 2010 10:29pm
Hurf Durf

Just when you thought Puke the ghoulish moron couldn’t sink any lower than comparing the Taliban to the French resistance.
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September 15, 2010 11:01pm
Hurf Durf

Admittedly, yes, the situation in France could and should be handled with a little more tact and diplomacy, comparing the government’s actions to the systemic organised continent-wide slaughter of an entire ethnic group is inflammatory and just wrong. To compare it to a theme you’re most engaged with, it’s more like the Kuwaiti expulsion of Palistinians after the Gulf War.
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September 15, 2010 11:11pm
Luc Hansen

In effectiveness, I think the Taliban compare very favourably with the French Resistance. Your attitude to any non-European (wog, gook, chink etc) resistance to European invasion is deeply racist.

We can have a debate about whether the Taliban is a nationalist or tribal resistance movement, and the truth is probably inbetween, but you can’t deny that a few thousand poorly armed and largely untrained local population has held the best the West can throw at them to a draw.

And just how did the Holocaust begin, Hurf? Small scale, then expanding. With the Allies knowing full well what was occurring but finding it politically inconvenient to raise a finger to help.

So you are saying it can’t happen again? Yet it was happening in the Balkans for quite a while before Clinton finally stepped in.

And it really doesn’t matter whether it happens to 12,000 or 12,000,000 (the true Holocaust toll, for non-racists): if it’s wrong for twelve million, then it’s wrong for even one person.
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September 15, 2010 11:39pm
Hurf Durf

I think the Taliban compare very favourably with the French Resistance.

Oh yeah, they compare very favourably if you like the idea of a bunch of clit-cutting television-banning nutcases running a country. Have you ever considered running for the Green Party? They’d be right up your street Good luck, telling the Americans that they’re European though; they’d probably give you the smack in the face you’ve been needing for a long time.

you can’t deny that a few thousand poorly armed and largely untrained local population has held the best the West can throw at them to a draw.

I bet you had a stiffy writing that out. It’s wonderful that I’m as right about you in October last year as I am now. Gotta love the idea of the biggest racist here whining about other people being racist; next you’ll be sneering at Australians as being too thick.

And just how did the Holocaust begin, Hurf? Small scale, then expanding.

Oh yeah, Sarko just can’t wait to whack up those death camps Bosnia-style. Look out! Sarko’s thugs are hiding under your bed and waiting to take you away!

You’re a joke, Luc.
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September 16, 2010 12:02am
hj

Luc Hansen Says:
We can have a debate about whether the Taliban is a nationalist or tribal resistance movement, and the truth is probably inbetween, but you can’t deny that a few thousand poorly armed and largely untrained local population has held the best the West can throw at them to a draw.
……
Only because the enemy mingles with the rest of the population and whereas in tjhe past they would have just wiped everyone out until they submitted.

Luc Hansen is a special breed of racial masochist: “I’m the same race as you so I can say awful things about our race without being called racist” The truth is he’s probably the sort of fella no one liked much.
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September 16, 2010 8:25am
joana

The roma in Europe have committed every kind of crime..they send their children out begging , the men don’t work, they are involved in people smuggling and prostitution, they set up illegal camps and generally cause an enormous amount of trouble.
Hardly surprising then that in his endearing , superficial way Luc is standing up for them.
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September 16, 2010 9:17am
krazykiwi

Calling krazy’s law on this thread
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September 16, 2010 9:21am
F E Smith

Luc, I have always been open about how you disgust me with your offensive attempts at equating your various causes with the Holocaust. Your attempts to denigrate and deprecate the suffering of the Jews because of your anti-Semitism, your anti-Judiasm and your anti-Christian positions is sickening. You are a true example of all that is and has been bad about European anti-semitism throughout the years, even down to your attempt to re-orientate the term anti-semitism to mean anti-Arab sentiment a while ago.

But what is instructive about your hatred is your willingness to misuse history in an attempt to make your point. Now you are even falsely portraying the present as well, so you compound your deceitfulness. And I mean that, you are deceitful. I do not for one moment believe that you do not know what you are doing in all this offensiveness.

But, let’s deal with yesterday’s trash, shall we? In no particular order:

“the Taliban is a nationalist or tribal resistance movement”

No, it is an Islamist movement. Whether that is good or bad is not a point I will discuss here (it is bad, but I am not going to discuss it), but the Taliban is not an Afghani resistance movement. Why do I say that? Because it is an ex-tyranny of a nature similar to the Khmer Rouge and with similar regressive policies. It may have its origins in the mujahideen, although it is more common to trace them as an organised group to the early 90s, which means they may have former mujahideen but they are really an Islamist group. It would be more accurate to call the Taliban a deposed government fighting to regain power of the country they used to rule. That does not translate to being a resistance movement, nationalist nor tribal. They are not nationalist because they are Muslim, and therefore have a pan-national viewpoint. Their religion is what defines them far more than their nationality or tribal affiliation.

“you can’t deny that a few thousand poorly armed and largely untrained local population has held the best the West can throw at them to a draw”

I can and I do. The evidence is becoming overwhelming that both Iran (as national policy) and Pakistan (as ISI policy) are training and arming the Taliban. In fact, is also known that the Iranians are also funding the Taliban in a big way. These are not untrained and poorly armed tribesman. Nor are they local, with many of the soldiers originating outside of Afghanistan (just like it was with Al-Qaeda in Iraq). The final annihilation of the Taliban has only been prevented because of the terrain, not because they are any good at what they do. The Pakistani Army showed what happens when the terrain doesn’t assist the Talibans hit, terrorise and run tactics.

“And just how did the Holocaust begin, Hurf? Small scale, then expanding. With the Allies knowing full well what was occurring but finding it politically inconvenient to raise a finger to help. ”

Quite frankly, you are sick. The Holocaust as history knows it began during the Second World War. That was when the decision to fully exterminate the European Jewry was made and put into action. True, there were concentration camps before then (in fact, they started within a very short time of the Nazi-led government forming in 1933) but the Holocaust took place while the Allies were unable to reach the death camps. Even worse for your position, most of the death camps were in the East of Europe, where the Soviets never had much issue with the wholesale slaughter of Jewry. Or anyone else, for that matter.

“Talking about the Holocaust, ”

See, you are using an horrendeous episode of human history to lead into a point that has nothing to do with it, nor is even like it.

“I see those Europeans are at it again, with France expelling at least 1000 Roma per month since the middle of last year. When will they learn? These people are like the Bedouin of the Middle East – they are nomads who actually add colour and variety to our monochromatic lives. ”

Except that Europe is a modern region, with borders and separate national identities. While one may have sympathy for the concept of living where you wish, it is asinine to say that it is in fact possible. The Roma who are being expelled are illegal immigrants who have no legal right to be in France. You may see yourself as an internationalist, but if somebody came and set up their home in your back yard, withour your permission and using your possessions as their own, then you might have something to say about it. The fact is that in this day and age one cannot live wherever one wants in the world. The Roma may be nomadic, but they must adhere to the laws of whatever country they are in regardless of whether they or you like it or not.

“Now the EU is putting the pressure on Sarkozy to cease and desist. I guess the next step for Sarkozy is to build gas chambers? ”

See, there you go again. You are disgusting. There is no suggestion that the deportation of Roma is in any way a genocide. Not even close. But you just can’t help yourself.

“Where do all the Zionist, white supremacist, supporters stand on this one?”

And again. Firstly, one can oppose your concepts without being Zionist. Secondly, one can oppose you without being white supremicist (for example, you have no idea of my own ethnic background). Your attempt to besmirch those who argue against you is both infantile and puerile. In fact it is you who comes across as hate-filled, deceitful and condescending.

But, hey, you are a left winger, so that is pretty much par for the course, right?
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September 16, 2010 9:23am
Kris K

krazykiwi 9:21 am,

Calling krazy’s law on this thread

Indeed, Krazy – “That leftists are always the first to accuse other’s of being racist.”

And as FES just said, “But, hey, you are a left winger, so that is pretty much par for the course, right?”

The deceit of the Left goes hand in hand with their willingness to falsely smear others.
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September 16, 2010 10:33am
MikeNZ

Thank you FE Smith for such a careful, coherent and clear response.
I have taken the easy way out and RIP’d him as I don’t have time for trash.

I’m not so sure about the last line but loved it all the same.
On reflection it certainly is par for the course for most of them.
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September 17, 2010 8:42am

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