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September 11, 2010 8:00am by David Farrar

General Debate 11 September 2010

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General Debate

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Kris K

Adolf Fiinkensein 6:05 pm,

Kris, try closing it for a while. You’ll be surprised how the taste will improve.

So can I take it you’re an apologist for both Key and Klark, Adolf? – since that’s where my “shitty taste” originates. Or is it just you that finds the general shitty taste in your mouth reduces when you keep it shut? Your obviously a ‘nose breather’ I take it?
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September 11, 2010 6:38pm
Kris K

Pete G[e]orge 6:37 pm,

Unfortunately, Pete, the ignorant head-in-the-sand approach is doomed to failure before you even leave the starting blocks. At least other approaches have you 50 metres down the track …
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September 11, 2010 6:49pm
Adolf Fiinkensein

Kris, you can ‘take’ anything you bloody well like. Nobody who counts will care what you take or when you take it.
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September 11, 2010 6:53pm
reid

“Short of re-writing the Koran, I see little solution in this regard.”

So do how do you recommend we go about accomplishing this Kris?

Kill everyone? Or pretend using imported technology that we’re Allah and we have a new message?
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September 11, 2010 6:53pm
Pete George

“the ignorant head-in-the-sand approach is doomed to failure”

Many who had ignorant ideas and have already been doomed to failure:

List of some of the many other times in history that religious fanatics of all kinds have decided the world was about to end, what they did about it, and what really happened to those who followed them when the world did not end as scheduled.

http://www.armageddononline.org/failed_armageddon.php
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September 11, 2010 6:56pm
Fletch

Viking2, I heard this only recently on that programme on TV One mondays called ‘Surviving Disaster’ with Navy Seal Cade Courtley. They’ve had earthquakes on one episode, fire, home invasion, pandemic etc. I was surprised about the doorway thing. Yes, he said to get next to something big like a sofa or other heavy bit of furniture so that if something falls it gives you that space.

I tried to find the episode on TVNZ’s On Demand, but they only have the latest one – the old episodes seem to expire. They should put it on again.
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September 11, 2010 7:04pm
Kris K

reid 6:53 pm ,

“Short of re-writing the Koran, I see little solution in this regard.”

So do how do you recommend we go about accomplishing this Kris?

Kill everyone? Or pretend using imported technology that we’re Allah and we have a new message?

I’m not saying we shouldn’t try and negotiate peace, Reid. But if you consider the West as simply a larger version of Israel, and then look at the success (or lack thereof) Israel has had in negotiating peace with her Islamic neighbours, then perhaps you can begin to see how I view any possibility of securing lasting peace by Western nations with Islamic nations/regimes as doomed to failure.

Remember the saying, “It takes TWO to tango” – it’s not much good if your partner is dancing to a different drum …
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September 11, 2010 7:07pm
Pete George

Fletch, you don’t have time in a major earthquake to figure out where the “safest” triangles are. And even if you had the time you wouldn’t be safer in a country with building standards like we have.

Most injuries and deaths are from things falling on you or flying glass (both the major Canterbury injuries were). Falling bricks and chimneys were one of the biggest dangers, and a “triangle” would be no use.

How many whole building collapses were there in Canterbury? Very few if any.

The standard advice here, the US and many other countries is to Drop, get under Cover, Hold on.
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September 11, 2010 7:12pm
reid

“if you consider the West as simply a larger version of Israel”

I think herein lies the schism Kris, for I don’t think the West is simply a larger version of Israel.

I personally think the west is not at all connected neither in heritage nor in perspective with the current incarnation of the Knesset nor has it been for some decades.

The question is, whose fault is this?

Is it our fault, if so how?

Is it the Knesset’s fault, if so how?

Why does the Knesset make it difficult for us to support it?

Why?
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September 11, 2010 7:23pm
jaba

another from the Sun:
BULLY-boy union leaders should have their powers CUT to stop them holding the country to ransom, a leading think-tank said yesterday.
The call came as Unite chief Tony Woodley threatened to ground British Airways by calling ALL its 30,000 staff out on strike.

Think-tank Policy Exchange called for new rules to make it harder for workers to strike.

It also wants to slash the amount of taxpayers’ cash handed to unions – £78.5million since 1998, it revealed in a report. Nearly £10million went to the “trade union modernisation fund” set up by Labour.
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September 11, 2010 7:32pm
JohnG

Here’s Snopes’ take on Doug Copp’s theories, for what it’s worth:

http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/household/triangle.asp

And here’s a joke (an old one…)

At the time of changing to the metric system the teacher was explaining that the word ‘ton’ was being replaced by ‘tonne’. “‘Tonne’ is pronounced differently”, she said, “it rhymes with ‘John’. ‘Tonne’, ‘John’. Now tomorrow I’ll ask who can remember that”.

Tomorrow comes, she asks the question, and little Johnny’s hand shoots up. “I know Miss, it’s ‘tunny'”.

“Where did you get that idea, Johnny?”.

“You told us Miss, you said it’s ‘tunny’, rhymes with ‘dunny'”.
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September 11, 2010 7:55pm
Rich Prick

I do wish they would print the Koran on softer, perhaps 2-ply, paper.
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September 11, 2010 8:21pm
Kris K

reid 7:23 pm,

“if you consider the West as simply a larger version of Israel”

I think herein lies the schism Kris, for I don’t think the West is simply a larger version of Israel.

However ‘we’ see the relationship between the two matters little – it’s how Islam sees the West (& Israel). The West and Israel are seen by Islam as “people of the book” (ie the Jews and the Christians). Islam’s first aim is the destruction of Israel; second is the destruction of the West – but it wouldn’t worry them if they had to achieve their goal out of order. Both the West and Israel MUST be destroyed for Islam to establish a global caliphate under Sharia Law.

You really need to look at this through ‘Islamic’ eyes, Reid.
But ultimately the fulness of time will reveal exactly how this plays out.

[I’m off for the night – have a good one]
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September 11, 2010 8:23pm
reid

Kris, whilst you’re off for the night, suggest you instruct your subconscious to think about, why DOES [in your opinion] Islam WISH to destroy [in your opinion] us?

It would be good to know.
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September 11, 2010 8:27pm
wat dabney

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8raabzZNqw&feature=related

You know it.
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September 11, 2010 8:32pm
reid

That’s made me very emotional, wat.

What a beautiful tribute.
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September 11, 2010 8:39pm
Luc Hansen

<blockquote“if you consider the West as simply a larger version of Israel”

Interestingly, I’m currently reading “The Myths of Liberal Zionism” by Yitzhak Laor, who early in the book is quite contemptuous of the Israeli fantasy of being “West” when inserting themselves into in the East. But even just reading the title of the book while I was browsing in the local library (and it’s another book on the Middle East that feels like I am the first borrower) made me think this:

Is there such a thing as moderate Zionism?

And I decided there cannot be as Zionism is, by defintion, an extreme doctrine, inferring at a minimum dispossession for the local population, but more realistically, outright genocide (in the sense of destroying a culture).

Ergo, supporting Zionism is by definition an extremist position.

Think about it.

And while you are thinking about that, I’ll reply to one of Kris K’s (I never knew our mental asylums had internet access for the inmates – oh, hang on, we don’t have asylums anymore, do we?) rants:

And, more importantly, when are they going to stop pandering to the murderous cult of Islam?

I challenge Kris to compare the death toll of Christianity to that of Islam. I am unaware of any acts of genocide carried out by Mohammed or his successors. Generally, the Islamic conquests were followed by peaceful mass conversions to Islam (the motivation was the capitalist concept of “price signals”: it was a better financial deal to convert, so why wouldn’t a pragmatic person convert?) and life carried on much the same for the largely agrarian societies of those days.

As regards Christian conquerors, on the other hand, it’s hard to even count the number of genocidal episodes that accompanied its expansion throughout the world, but the death toll has got to be measured in the hundreds, rather than the tens, of millions, surely.

And I can’t resist responding to this:

And by the way, Christians worship one God, but three persons; God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit – the trinity.

Hey Kris, tell that to the Orthodox and Coptic Christians!
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September 11, 2010 8:47pm
Viking2

Pete and others

Well if the roof is falling in there’s not much safety in a door way whereas there is protection alongside a larger piece of furniture. Secondly its not that easy to stand up in an earthquake where as you can lie on the floor alongside something.
That is if you haven’t decided to panic and try to run around the house.

It should be pointed out that GNS and others study earthquakes and ground movement not survival techniques. I wouldn’t ask a Dr of philosophy or a politician about survival at sea. I’d ask the Coastguard.

Clearly you never bothered to read and digest the 10 points in the email. All made sence to me but then I don’t waste my day filling cyberspace with nefarious theories about religious nutters and maniacs. I’m a rather practical person not a theorizer so when we have an earthquake you can practice your theory and I’ll survive.
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September 11, 2010 9:09pm
Rich Prick

Luc, lets live in today’s world, afterall that is what affects us the most.

9/11: Non-Muslin dead 3,500, Muslin dead about 12 – the villans
Bali: Non-Muslim dead 750, Muslim dead about 8 – the villans
London 2007: Non-Muslim dead 49, Muslim dead about 6 – the villans
Adulty: In the west the wife gets angry, in the Islamic world the woman gets stoned to death
Rape: In the west the perpetrator is in prision, in the Islamic world the victim is stoned to death after 100 lashes cutting her almost in half
Mutilation: In the west I suppose we have male circumcision, in the Islamic world women get their clitorious butchered by a Mullah
Theft: In the west you get a sentence of some sort, in the Islamic world you have your hands amputated without anastetic.

I think I know where I would rather live and which fairy-tail belief system I would prefer to avoid. Islam, the fucking religion of peace, my fucking arse.
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September 11, 2010 9:33pm
Lucia Maria

Luc said

I am unaware of any acts of genocide carried out by Mohammed or his successors. Generally, the Islamic conquests were followed by peaceful mass conversions to Islam…

You’ve not heard of the 800 Martyrs of Otranto, then?

The men of Otranto were beheaded one by one because they refused to convert to Islam.
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September 11, 2010 9:52pm
Pete George

Clearly you never bothered to read and digest the 10 points in the email.

I’ve seen and read that email long ago. I researched it then, and I looked into it again a few days ago when it came up again.

Did you read JohnG’s link on Snopes? Try also:

American Red Cross response to “Triangle of Life” by Doug Copp

“According to Red Cross community disaster education manager Rocky Lopes, author Doug Copp’s earthquake survival suggestions don’t apply in the United States because they’re based on observations made in Turkey, where engineering and construction standards are different.”
http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl_triangle_of_life.htm

“According to United States Geological Survey, the Triangle of Life is a misguided idea about the best location a person should try to occupy during an earthquake. Critics have argued that it is actually very difficult to know where these triangles will be formed, as objects (including large, heavy objects) often move around during earthquakes. It is also argued that this movement means that lying beside heavy objects is very dangerous. Statistical studies of earthquake deaths show most injuries/deaths occur due to falling objects, not structures. ”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangle_of_Life

I’ll follow recommended (and common sense) practices, and I’ll recommend the same to others.
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September 11, 2010 9:55pm
MikeNZ

No Lucia
the LUC’s of this world only research the Inquisition and other events for ammo against Christians.

Armenia perhaps?
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September 11, 2010 9:59pm
MikeNZ

# reid (4,831) Says:
September 11th, 2010 at 8:27 pm

Kris, whilst you’re off for the night, suggest you instruct your subconscious to think about, why DOES [in your opinion] Islam WISH to destroy [in your opinion] us?

It would be good to know.

I can’t believe you are asking that question as you were part of a discussion a while back where we answered.
Perhaps you forgot, I can’t believe you’re behaving like pete.
They don’t want to destroy you.
They believe the very best thing (and beautiful) is to live under Sharia.
the whole push of islam is to bring that beauty to the whole world.
every muslim prays for that for the whole world.
It is in one way an act of love.
dawa.

they have never intended to destroy you only unless you fight them or refuse to submit.
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September 11, 2010 10:04pm
Luc Hansen

RP

First of all, I was replying to comments that related to the origins of Islam. But by all means let’s move to the present.

9/11: 3000 US citizens dead, including many Muslims. Revenge attacks have caused about 1,500,000 Muslims deaths, just in Iraq and Afghanistan, and still counting, yet none of the 19 perpetrators originated from those countries, and most of the planning took place in Germany.

In Indonesia and Britain the perpetrators were all locals. Targets: as above.

And is circumcision not butchery of our sexual organ?

Ah, but Christianity is the religion of love, isn’t it?

Isn’t it?

My fucking arse.

My point, as always, is not to advocate that we adopt the Muslim faith, but that we should not lump 1.4 billion Muslims into the same grouping as the very few militants who, by the way, are fuelled by our actions, not by their religion.

Just the same as the murderous regimes of Bush, Blair, and Howard should not cause all Christians to be condemned as war criminals.

And by the way, although we abhor many practices of other cultures, demonising and killing them is not the answer.

However, I have taken your point about the lack of anaesthetic (sorry, anastetic) for hand amputations and I have emailed the appropriate Islamic authorities that just a bit of that touch touchy feely feely stuff like pain killers will see that practice became acceptable in the west.

Thanks for the heads-up.

But I can tell you this, as one who almost lost a hand in an industrial accident, it doesn’t hurt at the time and for quite some time afterward.
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September 11, 2010 10:04pm
Hurf Durf

Generally, the Islamic conquests were followed by peaceful mass conversions to Islam

Bribery, cultural genocide and apartheid were peaceful? Puke teaches us something new every day.
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September 11, 2010 10:05pm
Lucia Maria

MikeNZ,

It’s a common failing. Hopefully the article will help expand his horizons.
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September 11, 2010 10:05pm
Rich Prick

Luc, in case you missed the point, I hate Islam with a passion, how ever millions of the bastards there are who follow the goat-fucker. That’s all.
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September 11, 2010 10:11pm
Luc Hansen

Lucia

800 hardly ranks as genocide.
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September 11, 2010 10:11pm
Luc Hansen

Bribery, cultural genocide and apartheid were peaceful? Puke teaches us something new every day

I’m surprised it’s new to you, HD: I thought you knew how Israel operates.
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September 11, 2010 10:13pm
Luc Hansen

RP

It’s called Islamophobia.

It’s a treatable condition.

See a shrink – you can afford it.
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September 11, 2010 10:15pm
Hurf Durf

And here comes the ever-unsuccessful attempt to South Africanise Israel, in the same way you failed to Chernobylise oil drilling.

I’m assuming it’s an endorsement too, you don’t criticise it when your beloved “oppressed” do it. And I’m assuming you endorse the Christianophobia of your massive majority friends in the ME. Oh wait, that’s a bunk word just like “Islamophobia.” Just another thing you can whack “phobia” on the end of so you can look smug and avoid thinking about it.
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September 11, 2010 10:15pm
wat dabney

– “Revenge attacks have caused about 1,500,000 Muslims deaths, just in Iraq and Afghanistan”

Er, no actually. There have been zero “revenge attacks.” Whilst there have indeed been inadvertant killings of civilians, the key word here is “inadvertant.” And deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan have overwhelmingly been the result of Muslims murdering other Muslims.

Do you see how you managed to confuse and conflate total deaths with “revenge attacks”?

So, pretty ill-informed and clueless about world affairs, I guessing. Doesn’t seem to stop you being a gobby cunt though, does it.
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September 11, 2010 10:21pm
reid

“I can’t believe you are asking that question as you were part of a discussion a while back where we answered.
Perhaps you forgot, I can’t believe you’re behaving like pete.”

I can’t believe it either Mike and I’m worried.

Wherefore art thou et tu je ne sais quoi, etc.

I only hope you’re joking, that’s all.
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September 11, 2010 10:24pm
Luc Hansen

war dabney

Ignorance is careless at the best of times. Willful ignorance should be a criminal offence.

Inadvertent is the new collateral, is it?

Just the usual US cynical propaganda. Me Xtian. Them barbarians. (Beats chest) So that’s OK then.
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September 11, 2010 10:33pm
Luc Hansen

Huffy, your flailing even more than usual. I think I’ll (smugly) mark one up to me.
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September 11, 2010 10:35pm
Rich Prick

Luc, Islamo-phobia, fuck off, no, its called hatred, how a “religion” sees fit to lash a rape victim almost in half around her torso then put her in a pit up to her breasts and stone her to death is beyond my comprehension. Why do you defend this?
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September 11, 2010 10:39pm
Luc Hansen

I think you are confusing culture with religion, RP.

I don’t like or understand it either, and I certainly don’t defend it, but neither do I advocate hate, war or genocide to change it.

We are having Iraqi Muslims over for dinner next week. Lovely people, devout Muslims. No booze or pork allowed. What do you think I should do? Tear their limbs off?
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September 11, 2010 10:46pm
Rich Prick

Oh, so its “culture” now, rather than relgion, for fuck’s sake, they are the same in that part of the world so stop making shit up to excuse barbaric practices. But if you are into this sort of thing Luc, may I suggest you are the one in need of help from the shrink. Not me.
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September 11, 2010 10:46pm
wat dabney

Luc,

You clearly accept that they weren’t “revenge attacks” then.

What? You were just lying before, and hoping no one would pick you up on it?

Hmm. Maybe rather than making a bigger fool of yourself, you should just shut that flapping gob?
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September 11, 2010 10:48pm
Rich Prick

Better still, go to a court of sharia justice in Afghanistan and then to the stadium where the sentences are carried out. I suspect you won’t be such a defender of Islam after that. That’s if your western stomache can handle watching a bullet through a burka or a stoning, its always in the name of Ahallah according to the prays before hand.
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September 11, 2010 10:52pm
Hurf Durf

I think I’ll (smugly) mark one up to me.

Yep, don’t bother trying to justify your moronic thinking, like you never bothered telling us what the three security concerns more stronger than radical Islam are. Nah, just stick your fingers in your ears, tra la la la, you just hate the Other, she’ll be right bro. Pathetic.

So, pretty ill-informed and clueless about world affairs,

Puke Hansen 101.
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September 11, 2010 10:52pm
tom hunter

Well on a cheerful note my babe and I celebrated our wedding anniversary this evening – even though the actual date and time is not until tomorrow as we got hitched on a cloudless, stunning day in Chicago on September 11 (years will be not be mentioned).

I’m one husband who is assured of never forgetting his wedding day.
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September 11, 2010 10:58pm
Hurf Durf

Congrats Tom, hope you have many more.
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September 11, 2010 11:01pm
Rich Prick

Well, Tom, can I be the first on this spot to say good on you! Hope its a long and very happy life you have together, a picnic in a park might just be what’s called for, bubbles and all.
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September 11, 2010 11:02pm
Rich Prick

Oh, I wasn’t the first, but never mind, all the best Tom!
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September 11, 2010 11:03pm
Luc Hansen

No, war dabney, you misinterpret me.

Of course it was all about revenge. Other considerations entered into the equation as regards Iraq, but the US is still operating in revenge mode. Look out Iran and Syria.

RP, aside from hate, what’s your point? Do you advocate war against all Muslim nations? All Muslims?
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September 11, 2010 11:05pm
Rich Prick

Yip Luc I do not advocate not war, but finality, nuke the fuckers back to the stone age where they want the rest of us to be. What other solution is there? About 8 to 10 bombs in the middle east, north Africa in case that lot get funny ideas and a few spots in the Pacific should take care of the fuckers. Scorched earth I think Saddam called it. He was into it, so why not us?
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September 11, 2010 11:10pm
Hurf Durf

Of course it was all about revenge. Other considerations entered into the equation as regards Iraq,

Hah. Puke Hansen’s thought process is the same as the run up to the Iraq war: shape the facts to suit the conclusion.

Join me as we sing the Luc Hansen Anthem.
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September 11, 2010 11:15pm
Luc Hansen

Huffy, I don’t consider radical Islam or any Islam a particularly important security threat.

My number one is climate change and the mess that would eventuate if all you deniers have your way.

Off the top of my head I would rank poverty as the second. Although we may well say the poor will always be with us, in this information age they know exactly how deprived they are, and how rich we are at their expense.

If we don’t address these two issues Islam will be the least of your concerns.

Happy now?
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September 11, 2010 11:15pm
Luc Hansen

Join me as we sing the Luc Hansen Anthem.

More flailing.

I’ll mark another one up to me, Hurf.
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September 11, 2010 11:21pm
Rich Prick

Luc, trust me, if you really think that “climate change” rain will hurt more than a terroist’s bomb, good for you. I’m pleased you are more worried about that. Go to bed, its probably safer there. How big are the big pink elephants you se in your dreams?
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September 11, 2010 11:29pm
wat dabney

Luc,

You asserted that the US has deliberately killed 1.5m people in “revenge attacks.”

It was pointed out to you that, in fact, the US has been directly responsible for only a tiny percentage of the total deaths; and those were almost exclusively the result of collateral damage (an entirely legitimate concept), or occasionally the result of genuine mistakes (the much cited bombing of a wedding party that was firing-off AK47’s, for example.)

I must say, the books I’ve read from US and British troops on the ground reveal nothing of this agenda. It’s all been about maintaining law and order. I’ve never read anything about the policy of genocide that you describe.

So, to be clear, you’re saying that the US has deliberately murdered 1.5M people in “revenge attacks” for 911? Even though it is a documented fact that it has been Muslim-on-Muslim attacks which have resulted in the overwhelming majority of deaths?

Wow.

You are really fucked up.

I feel sorry for you.
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September 11, 2010 11:29pm
Luc Hansen

Sure RP, whatever you say.

From Wiki: The Scythians used scorched earth methods against King Darius the Great of Persia.

Just a tad before Saddam, RP.
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September 11, 2010 11:32pm
Hurf Durf

Ah, social work applied to foreign policy. Always a recipe for failure. I should have known you’d use those two, you being the idealistic Fabian loon that you are.

Flailing? It’s not part of the argument though. It’s an important factor to consider when having to deal with you. Your marking system is as irregular as your thought process.
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September 11, 2010 11:33pm
Luc Hansen

Also from Wiki:

Despite being prohibited, it is still a common practice. The protocol only applies to those countries that have ratified it, notable exceptions being the United States, Israel, Iran, Pakistan, Turkey, and Iraq.

So I guess Saddam kept good company.
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September 11, 2010 11:35pm
Hurf Durf

Moral relativism and using something that happened thousands of years ago as a comparative to now. Puke’s really got left-wing delusion down to a tee.
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September 11, 2010 11:38pm
Luc Hansen

Hurf, I would imagine that Fabianism is alive and well in Israel (for those of a certain religion, that is)? They were all socialists, the early Zionists.
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September 11, 2010 11:40pm
Luc Hansen

Moral relativism and using something that happened thousands of years ago as a comparative to now

But funny how a myth of over two thousand years ago is the basis for cultural genocide that you support wholeheartedly.
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September 11, 2010 11:43pm
Hurf Durf

I feel sorry for you.

I feel sorry for his kid.

But funny how a myth of over two thousand years ago is the basis for cultural genocide that you support wholeheartedly.

The same one you act as an apologist for? Or the one WD has shown isn’t happening, despite your inflammatory hyperbole?

WD is right, you are fucked in the head.
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September 11, 2010 11:48pm
Pete George

You guys missed an absorbing test, the ABs “played for Canterbury” and were quite shaky for much of the match, muddled and bumbled their way through the first 60 minutes but kicked on when it mattered with a staunch come from behind win. Rocky’s face in the aftermatch interview told it all, again.
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September 11, 2010 11:54pm
Luc Hansen

I touch type Pete. Great comeback.

Fun’s over now – serious stuff about to begin. F1 qualifying!
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September 11, 2010 11:57pm
Pete George

“F1 qualifying!”

Practicing going round and round in circles. Sounds like religious debates, except the whining is a bit more high pitched.
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September 11, 2010 11:58pm
Luc Hansen

Ahh, Pete, it’s pure poetry!

For wat and RP and Hurf:

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-nine-years-two-wars-hundreds-of-thousands-dead-ndash-and-nothing-learnt-2076450.html
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September 12, 2010 12:01am
Hurf Durf

The Dependent and Robert Fisk. What do you do for an encore? Johann Hari?
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September 12, 2010 12:06am
Luc Hansen

How about this? An email just popped into my inbox;

Humour

An 86 year old man went to his doctor for his quarterley checkup…

The doctor asked him how he was feeling, and the 86 year old said, ‘Things are great and I’ve never felt better. I now have a 20 year old bride who is pregnant with my child. So what do you think about that, Doc?’

The doctor considered his question for a minute and then began to tell a story:
I have an older friend, much like you, who is an avid hunter and never misses a season. One day he was setting off to go hunting. In a bit of a hurry, he accidentally picked up his walking cane instead of his gun. As he neared a lake, he came across a very large male beaver sitting at the water’s edge.

He realised he’d left the gun at home and so he couldn’t shoot the magnificent creature. Out of habit he raised his cane, aimed it at the animal as if it were his favourite hunting rifle and went ‘bang, bang’. Miraculously two shots rang out and the beaver fell over dead. Now what do you think of that?’ asked the doctor.

The 86 year old said, ‘Logic would strongly suggest that somebody else pumped a couple of rounds into that beaver.’

The doctor replied, ‘ My point exactly.’
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September 12, 2010 12:07am
wat dabney

Luc,

You haven’t replied.

Do you think that the casual accusation of the genocide of 1.5M people is something that you can just shrug your shoulders about when called on it?

It seems to be just some pathetic, lying, point-scoring thing that you invented to make yourself feel superior and worthy: something you instantly discarded when the obviously contradictory facts were pointed out to you.

Can you imagine what a sad, desperate little loser you are to invent a genocide just so you can publicly preen yourself over the invented moral superiority you imagine it bestows on you when you condemn it.
It is hilarious. Tell us about the time you rescued the orphans from the sinking ferry boat, at great personal risk, you sad, sad, little man. Or the time you stared-down the bank robber and got him to hand over his gun.

Is this what it’s like to be a global warming alarmist? To revel in ever-more absurd hysteria just so you can wank yourself stupid on your smug feelings of piety?
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September 12, 2010 12:09am
Hurf Durf

Now that’s more like it.
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September 12, 2010 12:11am
Luc Hansen

No, I’m not accusing the US of genocide, just ongoing revenge attacks with civilians targeted deliberately. The 1,500,000 figure encapsulates ALL deaths, including premature deaths, relating to US military actions.

You seem a little over wrought, wat?

But hear this, collateral damage is not accidental. The military strategists expect it, plan for it, shoot for it, then cynically cry about it.

Read the Fisk article. It’ll do you good.
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September 12, 2010 12:18am
wat dabney

“No, I’m not accusing the US of genocide, just ongoing revenge attacks with civilians targeted deliberately. The 1,500,000 figure encapsulates ALL deaths, including premature deaths, relating to US military actions.”

The overwhelming majority of Muslim deaths have been at the hands of other Muslims, so your blaming the US tells us rather more about your self-indulgent biases than it does about the real world.
US troops have been dying to maintain a higher level of freedom in Iraq and Afghanistan. It is so strange that you should blame them for the deaths when Muslims choose to butcher other Muslims. It’s like you hold the Americans to a higher standard than Iraqis or Afghans. That is simple racism.

Here’s a clue: when people are being deliberately murdered by suicide bombers and the like, the people to blame are the ones organising and carrying out the attacks; not the ones in uniform trying to prevent them. For most people it’s not difficult to understand, but you seem to have a problem.
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September 12, 2010 12:42am

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