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August 8, 2010 8:00am by David Farrar

General Debate 8 August 2010

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General Debate

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Robert Mapplethorpe

MikeNZ (2,489) Says:

August 8th, 2010 at 7:53 pm
why can’t we all just get on?

Mainly because of fuckwits like you, KrisK, andrei, Lucina, et al who want to divide us by the invisible friends we door do not have. Religion poisons everything.

Would we be having this debate if there were no religions?
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August 8, 2010 7:59pm
Kris K

MikeNZ 7:53 pm,

why can’t we all just get on?

Mike, you big stirrer – you can’t just pop in here and ask such deep questions as that.
Besides, Pete’s only just arrived, and to force his mind to expand to accomodate such questions is just downright cruel. 😈
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August 8, 2010 7:59pm
Pete George

why can’t we all just get on?

Good question. It would only be possible if everyone accepted that different people can have different beliefs, or lack of beliefs, and not feel compelled to force their own on everyone else.

But that aside, Pete, can we take it that you’re ok with Islam taking over the world?

No, not at all, I’ve never suggested I support that at all. The same as I don’t support your narrow version of Christianity taking over the world.

I’m ok with everyone being able to co-exist accepting different beliefs. I’m not ok with anyone or any one group taking over the world – it just wouldn’t work anyway.

Kris, that means you would have to expand your tolerance of other ideas substantially. The signs of that happeing are minimal based on current indications.
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August 8, 2010 8:03pm
reid

Reid are you claiming that the Greeks and the Romans got it from Islam?

No, I’m saying there’s a good BBC doco about the influence of Islamic science on Western science on the web.

I concede I got the chronology wrong.

Silly me.
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August 8, 2010 8:04pm
Kris K

Robert Mapplethorpe 7:59 pm,

“why can’t we all just get on?”

Mainly because of fuckwits like you, KrisK, andrei, Lucina, et al who want to divide us by the invisible friends we door do not have. Religion poisons everything.

A little heads-up, RM – when us annoying Christians leave you guys to it for seven years, then let’s just say that there’ll be a WHOLE LOT LESS getting on with each other. It won’t only be a time of trouble for ‘Jacob’.
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August 8, 2010 8:07pm
reid

“Poor deluded KrisK, what will you dowhen your god deserts you, as he deserted jesus?”

G-d never deserts anyone who truly seeks Him, Robert.

Isn’t that wonderful?
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August 8, 2010 8:08pm
Pete George

BTW, a good program in Darwin on the Doco Channel at the moment. But it is missing an important link – it doesn’t explain why some brains have evolved to learn new things and some have a partial 2k freeze.
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August 8, 2010 8:09pm
MikeNZ

Kris
Sorry mate, whomever intro’d me to RIP deserves a Db for life.

I apologise to everyone one who has ever been offended by me or my positions, thoughts, comments on Life, Liberty and Jesus. Not. 🙂
In the words of Die Fuhrer (in CCH at present) – Move on.

Things are not what they seem,
This is a world at war.
The prize is your hearts,
You have a part to play.

For some of us, it is too late, like Jive Kitty as she’s given up.
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August 8, 2010 8:09pm
Robert Mapplethorpe

Kris, you make even less sense here than usual. But keep right on wanking over your end times fantasies. It would be laughable if your cunts weren’t so fucking dangerous.

Jesus was a cunt. Mahommed was a cunt. And all their followers are cunts.
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August 8, 2010 8:11pm
Kris K

Pete George 8:03 pm,

Kris, that means you would have to expand your tolerance of other ideas substantially. The signs of that happeing are minimal based on current indications.

“Thou hast said” – to quote someone else I greatly admire and respect.
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August 8, 2010 8:11pm
Put it away

Kris K: “What’s that Dire Straits’ lyric in Telegraph Road? – “Two men say they’re Jesus – one of them must be wrong”.

Kris they’re both wrong. THere’s no jesus and no allah. You’re halfway there by realising what an insane nightmare Islam is, but you still need to realise your own religion has pretty much the same problems, although in a milder form, and reduce your number of gods by one.
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August 8, 2010 8:12pm
Pete George

I wonder how much time is wasted on unprovable arguments.
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August 8, 2010 8:13pm
MikeNZ

Hey Kris, I know you do this for the lurkers and I love you for it.
REM – “Pearls before swine, pearls before swine”.

Smile and wave boys, smile and wave, see you tomorrow.

Ohh by the way Rex, those four policemen should all be in Jail right now in segregation.
I look forward to everyone on this list sending letters to Minister Finlayson protesting the utter bullshit that judgement is and the way it undermines the rule of law, life and liberty in our democracy.
I suspect mine will be one of the very few.
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August 8, 2010 8:18pm
reid

” how much time is wasted on unprovable arguments”

eleventy gajillion milliseconds.

I trust you’re all suitably ashamed.
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August 8, 2010 8:19pm
Kris K

Robert Mapplethorpe 8:11 pm,

Well it’s good to see RM’s got such a frim grip on that riding crop.

[And hey, it’s been fun – so until we cross swords again I’ll bid you all a good night – and to whom it applies; “Look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh”.]
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August 8, 2010 8:24pm
JiveKitty

Suggesting a state where people can practice their religion freely provided they don’t impinge upon others or contravene the laws of the land is giving up? I thought it was a pretty good way to get along, really.
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August 8, 2010 8:25pm
reid

Night Kris. Thanks for the perspectives. As always, expanding my view.
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August 8, 2010 8:27pm
Put it away

It always makes me laugh when the best argument the mozzie-cuddlers can come up with is that in the dark ages when the west was at its greatest depths of xtian lunacy, ignorance and brutality, Islam was for brief periods, in isolated places, occaisionally tolerable and even made intellectual progress a couple of times. So basically what they’re saying is that Islamic culture can be a winner when there’s no competition, and at its absolute peak it can nudge past the west at its absolute rock bottom. That is the best they can come up with. Really this is damning with faint praise, but they choose not to see that. “Hey, 1000 years ago you were one notch better than the dark ages! Well done ! “. However we are not still in the dark ages. Islam today is to be compared not with dark ages Catholicism, but with the secular western world of democracy, art, science, literature, human rights, free speech, free markets, technology, functional economies , progress… well the list goes on, and the Islamic world today fails dismally in comparison.
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August 8, 2010 9:01pm
TimG_Oz

I’m mostly staying out of this debate, but one quote from Reid gets a mention.

What do you think would happen if a Muslim started preaching Islam on street corners in neighborhoods where lots of Hasidic Jews lived?

Pretty much the same as when the Christians or J Witnesses do it – not much. Maybe a giggle. They get much more agitated by immodestly dressed Jewish women – but that’s a whole separate story.

One day, I suggest you try walking from the Western Wall to Meir Sherim. There’s a thing called the Muslim Quarter between them….
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August 8, 2010 9:23pm
F E Smith

Rex, your comment on the cops has only just come to my attention- what amazes me about it is that a jury actually acquitted the officers of any criminal wrongdoing! I also watched the video on the Herald website and the police actions with the pepper spray were horrific. The Police response does not surprise me. NZ’s last civil jury trial was down in Christchurch a few years ago, over an allegation that West Coast police beat up an old bloke when he was drunk. It included the allegation that they rammed him head first into a telephone pole. The jury awarded the plaintiff $30,000, if I remember correctly. What was the police reaction (considering the plaintif had been acquitted previously of resisting charges)? To award the main police officer involved a medal! At least that did not happen here.

But it also comes back to the point I sometimes make that police officers charged with an offence will always plead not guilty and elect a jury trial unless they are going for a discharge without conviction. You just don’t see am officer put his/her hand up, ever.

On other points: the ‘two jesus’ lyric by Dire Straits is from Industrial Disease, not Telegraph Road.

And DPF, doesn’t Robert Mapplethorpe’s comment at 8.11pm merit some attention at some point? That seems somewhat unnecessarily offensive. Just saying…
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August 8, 2010 9:46pm
reid

“Pretty much the same as when the Christians or J Witnesses do it – not much. Maybe a giggle.”

I’ll pretend I’m an Imam, next time I’m in St Kilda.

I’ll tell them it was your idea.
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August 8, 2010 10:32pm
TimG_Oz

No worries – you wouldn’t be the first. You’ll also find regular visits from real Muslims down to St Kilda. You definitely wouldn’t be risking murder such as at the hands of the Taleban.

Catch John Safran tonight – at 9pm AEST he is interviewing Ayaan Hirsi Ali on Triple J (ABC radio). I’m sure you can stream or download the podcast
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August 8, 2010 10:54pm
reid

Would it be OK if I carried a shiny black sphere with a burning fuse or would that be a little over the top?
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August 8, 2010 11:07pm
Luc Hansen

Circle the wagons boys…

lock up your women and kids…

the Muslims are coming…

the Muslims are coming…

the Muslims are coming…
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August 8, 2010 11:12pm
TimG_Oz

Reid – You’d need to lower yourself to the mentality of a Sunday Star Times journalist, and probably risk jail, but go ahead – knock yourself out.
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August 9, 2010 12:02am
Manolo

Classic! http://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/michelle-obama-modern-marie-antoinette
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August 9, 2010 3:10am
ciaron

O.k., I still need help with my structures assignment. 🙂
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August 9, 2010 6:46am
cha

Try this ciaron.

http://www.wolframalpha.com/

http://www.wolframalpha.com/examples/Math.html
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August 9, 2010 8:02am
MikeNZ

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/investigation-israels-action-flotilla-continue

I predit that the investigations will find Turkey and others complicit in breaking International law and that the member countries will be castigated for risking life and limb at sea and suppoerting terrorism against a fellow members population and told to desist.

Hah!
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August 9, 2010 8:06am

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