General Debate 5 August 2010

Email
Facebook
Twitter
Comment164

Uncategorized
General Debate

Comments (164)

Login to comment or vote

mickysavage

Happy birthday Barack!
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 8:16am
Inventory2

So Winston Peters has been economical with the truth – sheesh; we didn’t see THAT coming!!!

http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2010/08/is-winston-telling-porkies.html
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 8:23am
kaya

This is worth a watch, George Carlin talking about the American nightmare. If he wasn’t dead I would vote for him, in fact I still might.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYIC0eZYEtI
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 8:24am
Scott

Indeed Micky — happy birthday Barack Obama. It will be interesting to see how his presidency goes. If you are a person of the left you would believe him to be marvellous. He has bought in government health care, appointed two left-wing judges who will be reliably liberal for decades to come, spent trillions of dollars propping up the economy, supports gays in the military and has 100% abortion rights record.

On the other hand if you are, in my opinion, sensible — your estimation of his presidency would go something like this. He is destroying a health-care system that the vast majority of Americans are happy with, appointed two extremist judges who will be partisan, divisive Liberals who will ignore the Constitution for decades to come, saddled future generations of Americans with huge amounts of debt that could bankrupt the country, destroyed military morale by allowing openly homosexual soldiers to remain in the barracks, and is allowing the abortion of millions of innocent unborn children.

However the electorate will have the final say in November of this year and 2012. So far it’s not looking good for Mr. Obama.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 8:39am
Pete George

An example of what a tolerant society can allow:

Women protest denial of free speech

A small group of Dunedin Muslim women protested for free speech after two others were advised they could not speak at the front of a public meeting attended by men last night.

Flanked at times by a dozen supporters, two women stood vigil outside an otherwise positive meeting on the experience of converts to Islam, hosted by the University of Otago Muslim Association as part of the Islam Awareness Week.

Earlier, protester Zarghona Lafraie, a nurse at Dunedin Hospital, said it was absolutely ridiculous to find “such intolerance” among some in a New Zealand Muslim community.

“I came from Afghanistan and if I wanted this, I could have stayed and lived under the Taliban,” she said.

Otago University Muslim Association president Mahmoud Amer, whose group hosted the meeting, apologised and suggested the community needed to communicate better.

It’s good to see that some want change, are prepared to speak up for change, and feel safe speaking up.

Before the usual suspects jump in and accuse me of supporting all sorts of crap I re-emphasise that I don’t agree with Muslim (or Jewish or Christian) practices that treat women as lesser people than men.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 8:39am
WebWrat

Well said!

jane said…

With regards to the State Dept. designation that IHH is a terrorist organization, that interviewer really walked into it didn’t she? But really she’s right about there needing to be a “Cultural Center” about Islam so Americans learn the truth; that Islam is a construct for male sexual atrocities to keep its victims docile terrorized and under control and kill off its critics. The center could have little booths for stoning gays and adulterers until their heads are puddles of mush, honor killing with creativity, female genital mutilation for the non-surgeon, pedophilia is a big section, how to marry baby girls and have sex with them until they’re old enough to penetrate and it still be OK, how to do beastiality right under Islam, beheadings, how to rape a woman then blame her and always get away with it, an experiential booth where you get to sweat in 120 degree weather in a stinky black cloth coffin beekeeper suit, a “fun” booth where you try to eat spaghetti through a burqa, watch bacha bazi male prostitute boys dance, how to make bomb vests for toddlers and handicapped people, when best to scream allahu akhbar before you blow up an innocent crowd, how to fly planes into buildings, how to smuggle dirty bombs across the messican border, how to lie like a snake. Yes, a cultural center would certainly educate Americans!

From: http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2010/08/rtv-video-pamela-geller-on-the-landmarks-decision.html#comments
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 8:44am
mickysavage

Greetings Scott

He (Barack) is destroying a health-care system that the vast majority of Americans are happy with

You mean the system that did not cover 50 million americans and bankrupted many more?

appointed two extremist judges who will be partisan, divisive Liberals who will ignore the Constitution

You should read the partisan decision in Gore v Bush and wonder at how partisan a court can get.

saddled future generations of Americans with huge amounts of debt that could bankrupt the country

Wall Street should get the blame for this. If anything I do not think that Barack has gone far enough in dealing to a sector that is out of control and a parasite on society.

destroyed military morale by allowing openly homosexual soldiers to remain in the barracks

I do not understand him to require it (homosexuality) to be compulsory.

and is allowing the abortion of millions of innocent unborn children.

Rowe and Wade still stands.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 8:46am
SouthernRight

Hey Webwrat

you feeling better now after that wee rant…
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 8:48am
WebWrat

Wasn’t me.

Wasn’t a rant … truth.

Don’t you agree?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 8:50am
Dave Mann

Is ANYBODY concerned at all that by the end of the year our foreshore and seabed will have been stolen from New Zealand and given to one race of people in order that John Key can prop up his government long enough to make a gift of billions of dollars to the international carbon scammers?

It seems that nobody really cares, judging by the deafening silence in the blogosphere and in what we laughingly call the ‘media’.

This is the outright THEFT of a COUNTRY and its going on under our very EYES. Amazing. For a little light reading on the subject (if you are at all interested, that is) follow this link, where you will see that at least SOMEONE appears to be concerned:

http://www.nzcpr.com/weekly240.htm
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 8:51am
Pete George

in order that John Key can prop up his government

Not correct.

He doesn’t need the Maori Party to “prop up” his government, National can choose between Act and the MP depending on what they want to achieve.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 8:56am
Murray

How do you know its Obamas birthday, seen his birth certificate have you?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 9:14am
mawm

I2 – So Winston Peters has been economical with the truth – sheesh; we didn’t see THAT coming!!!

Come on I2 – 54% of the poulation know that 80% of statistics are made up at the time. 😉
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 9:16am
mawm

David Mann – I’m sure that many (most) New Zealanders who know about the Foreshore and Seabed deal are horrified and don’t want it – but after such success in trying to communicate their dislike for the S59 and the ETS, I think they have all just given up and are hoping (just like the Americans) that the next Government will sort it out.

We have been deceived and cheated by the Nats. Never again!
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 9:21am
Murray

Ever three years we get to vote and decide which socialist party fucks us over mawm.

Welcome to democracy.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 9:25am
Inventory2

@ mickysavage – I don’t believe that you ever responded to this post in yesterday’s GD

# Inventory2 (4,854) Says:
August 4th, 2010 at 9:17 am

mickysavage said “His attacks on immigrants and NZFirst’s refusal to believe in climate change should make him feel right at home.”

WHAT?????? Labour’s ETS only passed because it was supported by NZ First. From Hansard

A party vote was called for on the question, That the Climate Change Response (Emissions Trading) Amendment Bill and the Electricity (Renewable Preference) Amendment Bill be now read a third time.
Ayes 63 New Zealand Labour 49; New Zealand First 7; Green Party 6; Progressive 1.
Noes 57 New Zealand National 47; Māori Party 4; United Future 2; ACT New Zealand 2; Independents: Copeland, Field.
Bills read a third time.

So I’m calling “bullshit” on you micky. You can’t re-write history on this one. History on this issue is written in Hansard for perpetuity.

How say you mickysavage? It’s not a sign of weakness to apologise when you err you know 😉
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 9:37am
Murray

Don’t confuse the crapweasle with facts Inv. Socialsts prefer their history rewritten to suit.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 9:39am
Don the Kiwi

Hang on I 2.

Mickey’s taking stress leave – on full pay too.

That’s what all narcisistic lefties do.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 9:40am
Inventory2

Actually, I wonder if Chris Carter’s lawyer comes from mickysavage’s practice …
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 9:42am
mawm

Just to stir the pot this morning!

McCaw: we’re clean, not cheats
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/3992224/McCaw-we-re-clean-not-cheats

I don’t think so Richie.

Take a look……
http://www.ruggaworld.com/2010/08/04/how-the-all-blacks-play/
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 9:45am
mickysavage

IV2

You should read anything that Peter Brown said on the subject of climate change. Labour shelved plans for a carbon tax because of NZFirst intransigence. THe begrudgingly supported the ETS but their involvement meant that it was weaker than it should have been.

There is an article at http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10360930

To quote:

Government support parties New Zealand First and United Future oppose the tax.

We wasted three years because of their lack of support.

I am happy to apologise when I muck up but I believe I am on firm ground here …
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 9:51am
jcuknz

The current poll is missing an option “Who Cares”
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 9:52am
gazzmaniac

PeteGeorge

He doesn’t need the Maori Party to “prop up” his government, National can choose between Act and the MP depending on what they want to achieve.

ACT won’t support the ETS that has been pushed through for John Key’s mates.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 9:53am
hj

Keith Locke rapt over the knuckles; insights here into the model used to understand international events.
==========
Whose price is it?

In that quest, an open letter to Keith Locke mp.

I read this in the Herald, attributed to you:

“We are proud of the good peacekeeping and reconstruction work that our Provincial Reconstruction Team has done in Bamian Province, and we mourn the loss of one of its members.”

If those words are not misquoted, then I’m really angry at your misrepresentation.

What’s going on here?

You’ve read all the books and been constantly active in the anti imperialist movement for literally half a century. You must be much more acutely aware than most people that the so called Provincial Reconstruction Team that the New Zealand state sent to Afghanistan is not about peacekeeping, or reconstruction , or is, in any way, “ours”.

You must similarly know that unless someone belongs to or chooses to identify with the New Zealand ruling classes, or is a bought hack journalist, or has not had access to the most rudimentary understanding of class politics, that: “our Provincial Reconstruction Team” is not based in Afghanistan for peacekeeping, good or otherwise.

Death in war is an understandable trigger for human emotions. So lets get the whole picture here. How many Afghanistan people have been killed by New Zealand invaders of their country? When do we mourn and how do we begin to try and make amends?

People die every day in the course of their calling. The NZ army officer killed by Afghanistan people trying to evict invaders from their land is the first invading New Zealand trooper to die there since 2003. How many industrial deaths have there been in New Zealand since that time? How many flags were lowered, how many media voices theatrically quavered and how many Prime ministers broke routine for those working class victims of the class war?

Let the ruling classes do their barbarous inhuman dirty work alone and unaided.

Our little time on this earth has more urgent and honorable calls on it; to revive the antimperialist antiwar movement in this country.

Don Franks
http://bowalleyroad.blogspot.com/2010/08/price.html#comments
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 9:54am
jcuknz

What’s wrong with those un-chrustian barbarians over in the States http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/04/us/politics/04midwest.html?th&emc=th
Missouri ‘ordinary folk’ have passed a referendum/bill against the 2014 introduction of compulsory health insurance payments or a tax in leiu. Really have they no thought for themselves or their fellow man … particularly when they feed themselves into obesity as a parrallel report from anotheer M state Missippi. Burbling on about federal interference in state matters … god they are so dumb.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 9:57am
RightNow

Pete, I’m not going to jump in and generalise about muslims, I think the words of that woman sum it up ““I came from Afghanistan and if I wanted this, I could have stayed and lived under the Taliban””. My concern about muslim immigration is whether those that come here wish to bring their intolerance and barbarism with them. Those that come here (in compliance with our immigration laws) because they appreciate our culture and are willing to live within our society and laws, no problem.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 10:00am
RightNow

mickeypresland: “We wasted three years because of their lack of support.” which means three years of not having artificially inflated costs end up coming out of the consumer’s pocket. It seems I do have something to be grateful to NZ First for after all.

Meanwhile, the empirical evidence is still denying the theory.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 10:03am
Scott

Thanks for replying Micky. Obviously you are 100% behind Barak Obama’s agenda. I suspect many left of centre New Zealanders would support him as well. However the United States has a much stronger centre-right constituency than New Zealand.

I suspect he is becoming more and more unpopular. His approval rating has been steadily going down and is now at about 41%.

The Americans, or the vast majority, seemed to like the health system as it was. They don’t want to go down the New Zealand and Canadian and United Kingdom route with government provided health care. So I suspect on this issue and many others his party is going to take a hammering come November. And I think in 2012 he is going to struggle.

Because basically he is a leftist, probably with similar policy positions to Helen Clark, in a country that is generally to the right of John Key. His only hope is a resurgent economy in 2012 to help him cling on to power. However he can always count on the media elite to support him. The chattering classes love him and they always will.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 10:07am
Inventory2

@ mawm – Of course McCaw cheats. Every #7 in the world worth his salt cheats; it goes with the position. What distinguishes McCaw is that he generally knows when to pull back a tad. IMHO he pushed the envelope too far in the Wellington test, and should have been sin-binned in the second half, but Rolland blinked first.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 10:08am
mawm

I2 – It’s the whole team! Maybe Pieter de Villiers is correct and they are coached to play that way.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 10:10am
Dave Mann

Hey mawm, if I thought that any subsequent government would or could address this foreshore fuckup and fix it then I wouldn’t be quite so worried.

However, given the history of unjustified grievance in this country by the Maoris’ agitators, can you IMAGINE the shit which would hit the fan if in, say, 10 years’ time some government seeks to reverse the traitor Key’s sell-out? There would be such screams of ‘we’ve been cheated!’ and such social unrest amongst the Maoris that no government would have the balls to even CONSIDER the question ever again.

This treasonous piece of treachery will NEVER be undone once it becomes law. In fact, I’ll go so far as to say that this is effectively the end of New Zealand. Our heritage of democracy, one-man-one-vote and the egalitarian fair-go principles which underpinned this country’s core values are now under direct siege and if nothing is done the whole concept of ‘New Zealand’ will crumble.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 10:12am
mawm

Dave Mann – This treasonous piece of treachery will NEVER be undone once it becomes law. In fact, I’ll go so far as to say that this is effectively the end of New Zealand. Our heritage of democracy, one-man-one-vote and the egalitarian fair-go principles which underpinned this country’s core values are now under direct siege and if nothing is done the whole concept of ‘New Zealand’ will crumble.

Just like welfare bribes, it’ll never be undone by Parliamentary edict. The other way is too horrific to contemplate.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 10:20am
Inventory2

@ mickysavage – Brown’s speech in the Third Reading debate was one of the stranger ones I’ve ever read; but what do you think he meant by this, and what was the “deal” he referred to?

We are in support of the deals that have been struck between New Zealand First and the Government, and indeed of those between the Greens and the Government.

Might it have had anything to do with Matters of Privilege involving the Leader of New Zealand First, and Labour’s refusal to vote for censure? The debate is there for all to see at the link below, but Michael Cullen’s closing statement is interesting, to say the least.

That is why the Labour Party will not be voting for this motion. There is a conflict of evidence here. A high test should be applied, in the end. A very serious motion has been moved, and I think the House needs to think very clearly whether, for political purposes, on the eve of an election, it should be engaging in this public hanging. No doubt Mr Brownlee, as an ex-carpenter, is the man keen to erect the scaffold.

http://www.parliament.nz/en-NZ/PB/Debates/Debates/8/1/d/48HansD_20080923_00000825-Privilege-Consideration-of-Report-of-Privileges.htm

Over to you mickysavage …
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 10:20am
Kris K

Pete George 8:39 am,

An example of what a tolerant society can allow:

Women protest denial of free speech

A small group of Dunedin Muslim women protested for free speech after two others were advised they could not speak at the front of a public meeting attended by men last night.

[…]

Whoever told you that Islam is tolerant, Pete, was lying.
One needs to look no further than the founder of Islam, Mohammed, to see what Islam is modelled upon …
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 10:24am
tom hunter

My concern about muslim immigration is whether those that come here wish to bring their intolerance and barbarism with them.

Given human nature and beliefs that will always be the case. Every immigrant group has always bought such things with them, but they’ve always slowly evaporated as those groups assimilated with the rest of society.

My concern is whether our society – in particular the left wing – will actually stand up against those things in any meaningful, practical way? Or will they just collapse into the passive, hand-wringing, navel-gazing nullity of being “multi-cutural” and refusing to argue for the strengths of modern Western civilisation.

Worse still, will some simply hope to use such things as tools to tear down a modern society they themselves have little time for.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 10:34am
Fisiani

The ball moved out of the scrum quickly and the halfback slipped a swift backward pass to his left. Stunning handwork but no forward progress as the ball aimlessly headed out to the wing. The winger, newly subbed on was tossed the hot potato ball half a millisecond before 4 burly opponents came crashing in.
It’s called a hospital pass.
Spending up large and leaving the cupboard bare was a scorched earth policy bordering on economic treason.
The public know that Labour wasted their time in possession and are merely and desperately trying to blame the winger for being gang tackled. “We were wonderful. We kept possession.”
Shame that they put no points on the board. Shame they wasted possession.
Amazingly the right winger has retained possession and already made amazing gains. The crowd are cheering are really appreciating the talent and foresight as the ball is now in a rolling maul of infrastructure and education and health spending and a whole host of team improvements.
All the tipsters at Ipredict are picking the Blue team to triumph in World Cup year.
The Blues and the All Blacks will triumph in 2011.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 10:48am
Pete George

Every immigrant group has always bought such things with them

That must be a stir, you can't be serious. Many people immigrate to get away from things they don't like. Sure, some will bring some of it, but many a new life.

My concern is whether our society – in particular some in the right wing – will provoke and escalate trouble because they don't tolerate people having different beliefs to their own and will be as nasty as they feel necessary to try and protect their intolerant positions.

will actually stand up against those things in any meaningful, practical way?

I’m sure if we had significant problems here the bigots would have highlighted them and used them to try to cause further trouble.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 10:52am
grumpyoldhori

Scott dear boy, yep pretty bad that Obama is looking at making homosexuality compulsory in the US armed forces.
So a question, since the majority of countries that have forces in Afghanistan have gays serving openly, should the USA ask those countries to pull their forces out of Afghanistan ?
After all that gayness may rub off.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 10:54am
andrei

Muslim (or Jewish or Christian) practices that treat women as lesser people than men.

Christians don’t and never have except in Liberal la la land where recognizing that women and men are in fact different with different and complimentary roles to play is considered oppressive to women or something.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 10:59am
grumpyoldhori

Dave Mann damn you must worry when you see all those hories in the NZ army just waiting to make Pakeha second class subjects.
Never mind dear boy give me koha in the form of a case of single malt and I may let you use my foreshore.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 11:00am
Pete George

Christians don’t and never have

On what planet Andrei? It only seems like that to old world Christian men.

Trying to keep women “in their place”, in the kitchen and nursery, still happens, particularly with fundamental Christian groups (and fundamental Jewish and Muslim). It’s even expressed here with some posted yearning for a return to the “good old” paternalistic society.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 11:05am
Kris K

WebWrat 8:44 am,

Well said!

But really she’s right about there needing to be a “Cultural Center” about Islam so Americans learn the truth;

that Islam is a construct for male sexual atrocities to keep its victims docile terrorized and under control and kill off its critics. The center could have little booths for stoning gays and adulterers until their heads are puddles of mush, honor killing with creativity, female genital mutilation for the non-surgeon, pedophilia is a big section, how to marry baby girls and have sex with them until they’re old enough to penetrate and it still be OK, how to do beastiality right under Islam, beheadings, how to rape a woman then blame her and always get away with it
[…] watch bacha bazi male prostitute boys dance, how to make bomb vests for toddlers and handicapped people, when best to scream allahu akhbar before you blow up an innocent crowd, how to fly planes into buildings, how to smuggle dirty bombs across the messican border, how to lie like a snake.

Yes, a cultural center would certainly educate Americans!

I reckon New Zealand could do with one of these type of Islamic cultural centres as well – that the great unwashed might TRULY see what lies behind the veil of Islam. Perhaps then we might have a meaningful debate about just how intelligent it is to allow the continual inflow of Muslim immigrants – who bring the trappings and ideology of Islam with them.

Islam is a ticking time-bomb in our very midst …
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 11:07am
RightNow

Pete, with any immigrants there is a need for them to be successfully integrated to their host society. While it makes sense for there to initially be assistance from the host to help immigrants adapt/acclimatise, the real onus is on the immigrant to learn, accept, and integrate into the host society. If they are not prepared to adapt to our society, and I don’t mean by learning how to rort the welfare system, then they shouldn’t have come.
“I came from Afghanistan and if I wanted this, I could have stayed and lived under the Taliban” sums it up.
I say “If you want to live under Sharia law, you’re in the wrong country”
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 11:14am
Kris K

Murray 9:14 am,

How do you know its Obamas birthday, seen his birth certificate have you?

Good point, Murray.
I personally doubt Obama even had human parents – while I am not generally an advocate for evolution, I think Obama is good evidence that sometimes things do indeed crawl out of primordial swamp scum …
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 11:14am
RightNow

“My concern is whether our society – in particular some in the right wing – will provoke and escalate trouble because they don’t tolerate people having different beliefs to their own and will be as nasty as they feel necessary to try and protect their intolerant positions.”

Well that’s a statement begging to be pulled apart. Intolerance of other people’s beliefs is not restricted to those on the right. Muslims in particular seem to have little tolerance for other beliefs, try kissing in public in a muslim country and see how tolerant they are. When in their country, follow their rules. When in ours, follow ours.
Then we have the AGW alarmists. Disagree with their beliefs and see how tolerant they are.
Now what if you believe same-sex carnal relations are wrong? Say it and you’ll be accused of hate speech.
What if you are a member of the Exclusive Brethren? There’s some special invective for you from the ‘inclusive’ Labour party.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 11:21am
andrei

It only seems like that to old world Christian men.

Trying to keep women “in their place”, in the kitchen and nursery, still happens, particularly with fundamental Christian groups (and fundamental Jewish and Muslim).,

Thus speaketh an emasculated new world man, indoctrinated in the ways of the dykocracy.

Sadly in the real world, both new and old, women bear children and children who need care and nurture.

People such as yourself may lament this fact of nature but it is so.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 11:22am
Jibbering Gibbon

Many people immigrate to get away from things they don’t like. Sure, some will bring some of it, but many a new life.

My concern is whether our society – in particular some in the right wing – will provoke and escalate trouble because they don’t tolerate people having different beliefs to their own and will be as nasty as they feel necessary to try and protect their intolerant positions.

This sounds like the post on Hone this morning: he can be a racist, act like a racist, just so long as he doesn’t say he’d like to have nothing to do with whites, because that’s something different and unacceptable.

What is the net gain of your above plan? Import immigrants, pick and choose which part of their culture is correct and acceptable, pick and choose which part of NZ’s existing culture is correct and acceptable and mix the people together in a bland pudd of nothingness. What exactly has been gained? Just as easy to leave the immigrants where they were to sort their own issues, left the rednecks you say that populate NZ to their sunburn, and let it rest.

Whats the game plan, Pete? Are you advocating a new religion, but one without a god? How will the people measure when they have transcended their flawed thinking and achieved nirvana? What text does a true disciple follow?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 11:27am
Falafulu Fisi

Good for National/ACT to vote down Grant Robertson’s Ethical Investment bill.

Grant blogged about it here:

Ethical Investment Bill goes down

One has to look at Labour supporters over there on that very blog post, especially that idiot called Loota. They simply have no clue. I seriously doubt that Grant had done any research on the topic of his bill. Ethical Investment performed poorly according to research. I’ll try and dig my archive to see if I can get this research paper, and then I will post it here.

I can’t debate at RedAlert since I am on moderation, and it is something that discourages me, since I want to respond to what others say and keep the debate going.

Redbaiter labelled Diane Fenton as uneducated in one of his comment here at Kiwiblog about a blog post on Diane (linked to RedAlert by DPF), and this sort of misinformed bill from Grant makes me think that Redbaiter has right after all. You can’t devise policies based on twisted ideologies. One must use the external world facts to shape his mind (i.e., the way he/she thinks) and not let his/her (twisted) mind dictate that the external world (reality) should conform to his/her wishes. It is obvious that Grant had never attempt to do some research on the topic, thus preferring that the financial markets fund investments performance agrees with what the thinks that it should operate. Reality doesn’t agree with what’s in Grant’s head, i.e., financial market analysis of ethical investments showed that it such investment philosophy performed poorly.

Do our law-makers, both government & opposition have researchers or advisors? If they do, then what the fuck are they doing, that they didn’t find the same paper that I found (via Google) and advise them on such facts? Perhaps Grant had been given such facts, but typically Labour MPs refuse to accept them, thus preferring to stick to their twisted ideologies. As the say goes, you can’t teach an old dog new tricks.

It pisses me off to see our law-makers getting paid handsomely so they could be very effective in their job (and their policies must based on facts), only to see them refuse to educate themselves on various issues that would help them to be well-informed. It is no difference to someone who goes to work and falls asleep the whole day, 5 days a week & still getting paid for just doing that (i.e., do nothing)?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 11:28am
Redbaiter

“Thus speaketh an emasculated new world man, indoctrinated in the ways of the dykocracy.”

Damn right there. Not in any way unique, but definitely a eunuch.

Progressive to the core.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 11:28am
Kris K

Murray 9:25 am,

Ever three years we get to vote and decide which socialist party fucks us over mawm.

Welcome to democracy.

Pretty much sums up the type of government system we have in New Zealand, especially under MMP.
And like you said, Murray, about the only time we see democracy in action is when we vote every three years – other than that, we don’t live under a democracy; socialism and democracy are, of course, mutually exclusive.

Solution:
Firstly, we need to get rid of MMP.
Next we need to remove all the racists, socialists and liberals, pc wowsers, and all other true enemies of freedom and those that support it. The system we have currently is corrupt from top to bottom, and in no way represents the wishes of the moral majority (I think we’re still the majority?).

Prostitution Law reform, S59, the ETS, the Seabed and Foreshore debacle – the list goes on and on …
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 11:28am
grumpyoldhori

“My concern is whether our society – in particular some in the right wing – will provoke and escalate trouble because they don’t tolerate people having different beliefs to their own and will be as nasty as they feel necessary to try and protect their intolerant positions.”

Now would the hard mob slot right wingers who were trying a armed takeover on in NZ, yep like a shot they would.
So instead of just talking about it you right wingers why not try it on ?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 11:29am
Redbaiter

“Redbaiter labelled Diane Fenton as uneducated in one of his comment here at Kiwiblog about a blog post on Diane (linked to RedAlert by DPF), and this sort of misinformed bill from Grant makes me think that Redbaiter has right after all.”

I am right. Serious deficiencies in their education are what allows them to think the way they do and come to the conclusions that they do. And once they are in their group think collectives, full of like uneducated ignorami, they can never break away. They’re stuck in their group think groove, and its almost impossible to penetrate the wall of ignorance that surrounds them.

History and critical thinking skills are their two greatest educational deficiencies.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 11:34am
RightNow

Grumpy, what are you talking about? Who are you wanting to attempt an armed takeover, and of what?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 11:35am
stephen

Falafulu Fisi, it may be that it doesn’t bother Grant that returns might be lower – this is about ‘international reputation’, ‘doing the right thing’ and ‘our children will benefit’ and all that jazz. Also everything i’ve read about ethical investment seems to come to the conclusion that some of these funds perform above average, while some perform below average…just like any funds, really.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 11:35am
jinpy

WebWrat — your views are repugnant and hateful. Yes, there are horrible practices out there committed by people, some of them muslim — on that much we agree. But to insinuate such extreme practices are confined to, or widespread among, a particular religion or group of people is Hate Speech. Can you not see that this blanket judgements and passing on of rumours without verification, context or sources is the same activity as practiced by other hate groups — Jewish hate groups for example. I mean how much do you know about the world’s population of muslims beyond what you read on your favorite blogs?

Doesn’t everyone understand that there is no single entity of Muslims, or for that matter Christians. There are millions of people all around the world that are Muslim but to imagine a single group of people and then to attribute attributes (extremely negative ones) to them, is just craziness. It’s exactly the same level as saying Jews are misers, blacks are stupid. I bet if you went to Jewish hate sites you would see the same thing as what you are saying about Muslims. The whole thing is being drummed up the US conservative right in search of another enemy and if you are willing to be a mindless drone to this kind of activity, I pity you.

By marginilising Muslims with such hate speech you actually encourage them to move away from society and listen to more extreme views.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 11:37am
Redbaiter

“judging by the deafening silence in the blogosphere ”

I wrote an article about this yesterday on Crusader Rabbit. (no Progressives please)

John Key is the man behind all of this and he and his acolytes currently controlling National have to go.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 11:42am
Pete George

Grumpy, what are you talking about? Who are you wanting to attempt an armed takeover, and of what?

Ask Redfundie.

Rightnow, my “right wing” statement was a dig at Tom trying to blame most things on “the left”.

Liberated through submission?

Whats the game plan, Pete? Are you advocating a new religion, but one without a god?

No, that’s a bit of a contradiction. It’s not difficult to act responsibly as individuals without the need to be dictated to based on some archaic beliefs. You know, individual responsibility.

Thus speaketh an emasculated new world man, indoctrinated in the ways of the dykocracy.

Thus speaketh someone who has no idea about treating women as you would want to be treated yourself – equal rights with some obvious different roles on procreation. It’s quite easy to treat bringing up children and running finances and a household as a joint operation with a partner rather than one treating the other as a house slave. It’s got nothing to do with sea barriers in Holland.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 11:44am
Jibbering Gibbon

“The whole thing is being drummed up the US conservative right in search of another enemy and if you are willing to be a mindless drone to this kind of activity, I pity you.

By marginilising Muslims with such hate speech you actually encourage them to move away from society and listen to more extreme views.”

or possibly:

The whole thing is being drummed up the progressives in search of another enemy and if you are willing to be a mindless drone to this kind of activity, I pity you.

By marginilising US conservatives with hate speech you actually encourage them to move away from society and listen to more extreme views.

I’ll let you into a secret. Hate doesn’t exist outside of yourself. The world is a big mirror.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 11:45am
Redbaiter

“the whole thing is being drummed up the US conservative right”

Typical fucking left wing insanity and hypocrisy. Can’t see that in that one phrase he logically destroyed and discredited everything that went before it.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 11:45am
Jibbering Gibbon

You know, individual responsibility.

but why Pete, why the need for individual responsiblity? Without an overall game plan, responsibility is redundant.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 11:48am
Pete George

Overall game plan, in order of priority (but with interdependence between them):

1. Survive, and if possible have a good life
2. Raise a family and do what you can to help them achieve (1).
3. Contribute positively to community.
4. Contribute positively to country.
5. Contribute positively to planet.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 11:55am
Redbaiter

“Nothing worth knowing about happens beyond the distance of a days mule ride”

Paraphrased- “Get your fucking Progressive shit out of my life”
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 11:57am
jinpy

Jibbering Gibbon,

You may have me there with my generalisation on the US conservative right, and I have as much anger and hate as the next man but I’m open to change. Besides, you’ve played a little game and ignored the actual content of my rant and tried to ‘relativize’ the whole issue away without addressing it. IMO, there is a group of people actively spreading hate against a particular group of people — my contention that there is this group does not mean I am inciting hate speech. but yes, I should make sure my issue is with the content of the speech and not some imagined group of people making it. But just check the internet to see where Webwrat got his ideas from — there IS a committed network of people dedicated to this sort of thing.

You’ve successfully commented on an issue without making your stance known? Care to state your position as to whether you think all Muslims are rapists, pedophiles, terrorists, etc. as wrebwrat implied?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 12:06pm
grumpyoldhori

RightNow what, you raving right wingers are not going to follow Red in a right wing revolution to take over NZ ?
I am disappointed, it would have been a laugh a minute.
I thought you lot wanted to do something about the socialistic, Nazi, communistic government we have.
Since you are not going to win at the ballot box what other choices do you have ?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 12:08pm
Redbaiter

“IMO, there is a group of people actively spreading hate against a particular group of people”

Yep, obviously you’ve been to Reverend Wright’s church and Abu Hamsa Al Mazri’s mosque. You shallow cockatoo in a cage.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 12:11pm
kowtow

The sentences that Pete George left out were ;

“the protest followed the advice from imam Sheik Asrarul-Haque that it would be inappropriate for women to address a mixed group”.
and
“a separate forum for women was organised for next weekend”.

This is part of Islam Awareness Week hosted by the University of Otago Muslim Association.

University students in New Zealand are prepared to follow the advice of the imam and keep up this Sharia type nonsense?
Who is the imam,where does he come from,what has the human rights commission to say about this etc etc
Why hasn’t the MSM followed up on this?

Muslim awareness week….some of us are already aware ,the rest need to wake up! Islam means submission,our media and leftists have already submitted.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 12:16pm
jinpy

RB,
I’m not suggesting that certain groups of Muslims don’t engage in hate speech, but arguing against the implication that this means all muslims are like this, or that non-muslims aren’t like this.

Ive got no intention to discourage debate on issues such as women’s rights within traditional Islamic societies – today’s story was very interesting and the integration of immigrants (or for that matter existing minorities) is an important question for any country.

However, I think it’s important for people to remember that other groups also have the same problems. For example, some Maori disagree with women having speaking rights on marae. Other religions, such as Mormonism, allow for multiple wives. Many fundamentalist (and moderate) Christians believe a women’s role is as wife, mother and homemaker and thus practice a more subtle form of limiting women’s rights IMO. Orthodox Jews have crazy rules about picking up telephones on certain days. I mean, the world’s crazy but you can’t just blame it on Muslims.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 12:18pm
Pete George

Add to that (and more relevant) Reverend Kris K’s preaching and Redbaiter’s continual attempts at stirring up revolt. They try to monger more hate here than people who don’t know this blog exists.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 12:18pm
malcolm

The Americans, or the vast majority, seemed to like the health system as it was.

I would make a distinction between the service (excellent) and the health insurance which funds it (expensive, becoming relatively more expensive and increasingly unavailable to many). My take from living in the US (my wife is American) is that there is a lot of dissatisfaction with the cost and availability of health insurance. Most insurance is provided via companies to their employees and if you try to obtain health insurance as an individual it’s prohibitively expensive (much much more expensive that what your employer would pay). I’ve never gotten a satisfactory explanation of why that is the case.

Consequently if you lose your job, you lose your health insurance (although in some states the insurance company is obliged to offer you a continuation of coverage but generally at a price which is not affordable for long). Also because insurance costs have been out-running inflation for a long time, many jobs no longer provide it, or have such high co-pay arrangements that you’re only fractionally covered. Another issue is that if you have an existing health problem, you can find yourself unemployable.

So all-in-all it’s wrong to suggest that Obama was meddling with a system that Americans are happy with. They’re happy with the service if that have it, but paying for it is another issue. For most people, the only way to get decent health insurance is via a job, but that relationship is breaking down.

I was working in the US as a contractor, being paid from the UK. Even though I was being paid very good money, it wasn’t possible to find health insurance which would have cost less than 50% of what I was earning. And I was fit and healthy and in my late 20s.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 12:19pm
Pete George

Islam means submission,

Anything like this sort of submission?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 12:23pm
Redbaiter

“it wasn’t possible to find health insurance which would have cost less than 50% of what I was earning”

What bullshit. To infer this is the predicament that faces all US citizens seeking health insurance is just complete idiocy. 77% of Missourians rejected Obamacare in a recent poll.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 12:27pm
tom hunter

My first witness for the prosecution – Pete George.

Many people immigrate to get away from things they don’t like.

From some things, particularly economic prospects. Other things they’re quite happy to bring with them – or are you unaware of the rich history of imported prejudices within immigrant groups. Surely you have not led so insular a life, so removed from immigrant groups, that you are unaware of this? European immigrants around the world have long been accused of exactly this flaw: a notable example being their attitudes towards Jews, although that critique is heard less from the left nowadays than it used to be. But Europeans immigrants are hardly the only such groups.

My concern is whether our society – in particular some in the right wing – will provoke and escalate trouble because they don’t tolerate people having different beliefs to their own and will be as nasty as they feel necessary to try and protect their intolerant positions.

Perfect. An absolutely perfect demonstration of my point. The objections to intolerance, hatred and bigotry are themselves an example of intolerance, hatred and bigotry and will be resisted.

Let me see if I can – once more – penetrate the obfuscating fog you carry around with you.

I object to many things that Kris K puts forward. I’m an agnostic: he is a fundamentalist Christian. However, until the day comes when I find he and his ilk flying planes into buildings to kill thousands of people and terrorise millions more, bombing railway stations and cutting heads of captured civilians in pursuit of some farcical religious vision for society, and until I see large numbers of his ilk receiving or providing vocal support to such acts or refusing to actively combat them within his community on an intellectual, spiritual and political basis – then I’m going to ignore him and focus on those who do those things.

I expect that you won’t and I base that on the fact that you don’t, whenever this debate comes up. Instead you – and many others like you – happily retreat into the comforting, cosy world of bashing both your own society and Christians, blaming them for having caused these “reactions” in the first place, or trying to put them on the same level of moral equivalence in order to justify and rationalise your own sense of moderate centrism, your own sense of how tolerant you are, and your own passivity.

my “right wing” statement was a dig at Tom trying to blame most things on “the left”.

In this case it is less that I blame the Left – although there is blame to be laid – than that I am critical of their refusal to stand up for the things they claim to believe in. At best the modern left are confused (thank you Post-Modernism). Worse, they lack the courage of their convictions: in a word, cowards. But worst of all, they may actually be perfectly satisified to allow or enable such things because they think it helps them in the fight against their traditional foe – Judeo-Christian influenced, Western, capitalist civilisation.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 12:32pm
cha

Did Beck compare Obama to Lucifer?, yes he did.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 12:34pm
Redbaiter

I mean, the world’s crazy but you can’t just blame it on Muslims.

That’s not what is happening. There is resentment because people such as yourself and Pete George, brain damaged Progressives, so willingly and gullibly buying into Journolist propaganda, insist on making European culture a door mat for every other culture.

These people come here because we have made better places in the world, and yet when they arrive, they insist on bringing customs and beliefs that made their places of origin less liveable. Take the UK for example. Only a complete ignoramus (or someone completely brainwashed by Progressive propaganda) could claim that Islamic culture has brought a positive to the country. In fact it has resulted in massive limitations on individual freedoms.

The real truth though is that our culture is has been under attack from Progressives for long enough as it is. You jinpy, are actually more dangerous to our liberty and freedom and way of life than any Muslim. First, we have to destroy the enemy within.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 12:36pm
malcolm

What bullshit. To infer this is the predicament that faces all US citizens seeking health insurance is just complete idiocy.

I’m not. I’m just recounting my own experience when I looked for health insurance, outside of an employer. You’re welcome to add your experiences with health insurance in the US, Redbaiter.

77% of Missourians rejected Obamacare in a recent poll.

Rejecting a proposed solution is not the same as saying there’s no problem. It’s a false dichotomy and a dishonesty. But carry on.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 12:38pm
Redbaiter

“Did beck compare Obama to Lucifer?”

You Media Matters moron. Hard left propaganda site and you think its a source of objective comment. The scum who run that site would have you in chains in an instant if they could and you think they’re advocates for freedom you poor sap.

http://macsmind.com/wordpress/2007/04/14/media-matters-and-george-soros-it-depends-on-what-you-mean-by-funded/
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 12:41pm
cha

First, we have to destroy the enemy within.

Best get busy then Red because I watched your half arsed video and if that’s you narrating I reckon you’d be an old fucker sucking on the states teat and you’ll be dead soon enough.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 12:42pm
Redbaiter

“Let me see if I can – once more – penetrate the obfuscating fog you carry around with you.”

You never will. Its why I describe him as brain damaged. But its still worth it, as it gives a lead to the more sane and open minded people reading this blog.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 12:44pm
MikeNZ

jinpy (119) Says:
August 5th, 2010 at 11:37 am

You are really too stupid for words.
What is it about you leftist twats?
I have given you the poll links before now, didn’t you read them or are you deliberately ignoring them?
Grow up and realise that you’re talking about between 20-30% of Islam.
That’s 300 million worldwide actively support having Sharia in all the world. yeah your suburb too.
They also support it with their pocketbooks and by not revealing what’s going on around them in their communities in the countries they live in.
The OIC have a control on the UNCHR and greatly influence all SUB-organs of the UN
What don’t you understand about the evil of Sharia law?
Go to one law for all in the UK, they very definitely aren’t fundi Christians that you can blame for being ignorant vindictive idiots.
I can’t believe your shit for brains and you vote too!
Seriously it may just be benign right now here but if you actually looked at the history and what is going on in the world with Islamic Dawa you would be ashamed of yourself.

really honestly look at Sharia Law and the heart attitude towards people that it shows.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 12:45pm
Pete George

Let me see if I can – once more – penetrate the obfuscating fog you carry around with you.

🙂 – accusing someone of obfuscating! Maybe tom is another identity of Redbaiter, tries to blame what he is.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 12:48pm
Redbaiter

“I reckon you’d be an old fucker sucking on the states teat”

Smears are all you leftists ever have. When anyone confronts your assault on our freedom, you have nothing but hate, cowardice and smears. No self respect. No morality. No reason. Just blind hatred of anyone who gets in your way.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 12:48pm
Pete George

I apologise tom, only one poster could say: First, we have to destroy the enemy within.

Followed soon after with: When anyone confronts your assault on our freedom…Just blind hatred of anyone who gets in your way.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 12:54pm
RightNow

grumpy, sorry I must have missed the call to arms;)
I do worry about this though: “Since you are not going to win at the ballot box what other choices do you have ?”
This problem is not confined to right wingers. Only politicians win at the ballot box, they feather their own nests and become a class unto themselves, where they seem content to ride roughshod over the actual wishes of those who elect them. Whether either main party ultimately does anything for altruistic motives is very unlikely. They do it to ensure the survival of the ruling class.
As one example, when a political party extends the scope of welfare such that less than 50% of the population are nett taxpayers, doesn’t that worry you that the wrong incentives exist for those 50%+ to vote for that party?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 12:54pm
tom hunter

Malcolm

Most insurance is provided via companies to their employees and if you try to obtain health insurance as an individual it’s prohibitively expensive (much much more expensive that what your employer would pay). I’ve never gotten a satisfactory explanation of why that is the case.

You’ve never had a satisfactory explanation? Really?

It has to do with tax credits for employers who offer health insurance. It goes all the way back to the Galbraithian wage controls of WWII when companies were not allowed to compete for workers by offering higher wages. One way around this was to offer health insurance on top and of course people liked it so much that it became built in after the war. The result is that individuals buying health insurance have a hell of time getting it at affordable prices. I have several friends in that situation; however, none of them have failed to afford such and none of them are high flying income earners (one’s a paralegal). I’m a little amazed to hear that you could not find anything at less than 50% of your contractor income

Funnily enough McCain proposed to level that particular playing field by offering the same tax credits to individuals as companies get today. Obama demonised him for that, fielding huge numbers of commercials telling people that their companies would dump their health insurance as a result.

Speaking of which…..

Jcuknz –

What’s wrong with those un-chrustian barbarians over in the States…

They’re upholding Obama’s campaign promise not to have an individual mandate that forces people to buy health insurance at the point of an IRS spear. That was Hilary Clinton’s proposal and Obama attacked it relentlessly during the Democratic nomination fight.

Good to see people in Missouri standing up for hope and change.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 12:56pm
RightNow

Also grumpy, what do you think of this?

“The odds are stacked against too many a Maori boy from birth. Consider that;

1/ He will be raised on welfare in a workless household
2/ Most of the male role models he is exposed to are disaffected
3/ Most of the female role models he is exposed lack the capacity to ‘mother’ in the full sense of the word (which is possibly why so many Maori males have relationships with much older women – looking for the mother figure they never had.)
4/ He is stereotyped (rightly or wrongly) by Pakeha institutions
5/ He is failed by (or he fails – take your pick) the education system thus subjecting himself to a life of menial work which does not provide enough money to compete with the DPB.
6/ He will father children very young also subjecting himself to a life of penury being bled dry by the child support system.
7/ Crime becomes the only avenue through which he can make some real money and prove his machismo.
8/ He will grow up in an environment where going to prison is part of the wallpaper.”
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 12:56pm
jinpy

On lefty, liberal progressives,

Well, I may be prone to believing without thinking about certain things that have been popular in recent years. For example, I’m suspicious of economists and those that dictate force is necessary for discipline but I’m becoming more aware that my answer isn’t the only answer, or even the right one on some of the issues I talk about. And I think that there is a hateful element of muslim society, a rigid rule system in that religion and a potential difficulty in reconciling it with Western civilisation, and a growing movement in recent times for such extremists to grow across the world.

But you misunderstand me if you think I am only a lefty, liberal progressive. I like to think my beliefs are really humanistic, and that we are all pretty much the same. On top of this comes cultural, political and historical factors. So I don’t think all muslims are bad, and that for the world to have peace we need to get rid of muslims. And I disagree that singling out this one group as ‘bad’ will solve any problems.

For the record, I’m not really in a solving problems worldview — I come here to debate as sport and have started to become interested in exploring some of my own ignorance and prejudice. for this reason I generally don’t come up with my own stories but react to others that strike a chord with me. My initial post was in reaction to some horrible rant and I just think if anyone agrees with those kind of views its very sad.

without thinknig this statement through much, but nonetheless liking its essence, I think the best chance we’ve got is to be accepting of young muslims (maori, polynesian, asians etc.) as we can, they will drive change in their own communities, perhaps even depart from them if they see the alternative as something good. And worldwide, turn down the rhetoric on certain groups of people. For mine, I will try to step back from my ‘US conservative right is evil’ rants.

Finally, I really should do more work 😉
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 12:58pm
Redbaiter

“I apologise tom,”

No need to Pete, most people with critical thinking ability would (I think) realise the handicap you’re working under.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 12:58pm
jinpy

MikeNZ,
shit I really need to get with the programme don’t I. u really want me to hate muslims don’t u.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 1:03pm
Pete George

Mike doesn’t understand that stirring groups up will stir them up. Or maybe he does.

A Muslim problem is not apparent in New Zealand so there’s nothing to stand up against. Sure, all Muslims could be sleepers ready to uprise when they get the call. Then again, so could the Jews, or the Chinese, or the Christians.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 1:06pm
Redbaiter

For fuck’s sake. How typically nothing.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 1:07pm
malcolm

It has to do with tax credits for employers who offer health insurance.

That doesn’t explain why employers pay a much much lower premium than what the employee would pay if they went to the insurer as an individual. Infact even when the insurer is obligued to allow an ex-employee to buy continuation cover, it is still much more expensive. Obviously there are economies of scale and the employer has more leverage etc, but I don’t think that explains the huge disparity.

I’m a little amazed to hear that you could not find anything at less than 50% of your contractor income

My now wife did the looking. She’s was an actuary for a major insurance and reinsurance company where we both worked. It’s possible her idea of what constituted an acceptable coverage was more comprehensive than the bare minimum. As it happened I was happy to take the risk. Probably fool-hardy but cash is king when you’re young.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 1:08pm
MikeNZ

Jnpy
you are a stupid stupid person.
I do not want you to hate anyone, but I do want you to wake up and realise the moment we are in right now.
I do not hate Muslims, i do Sharia Law and Islam that views you and me as a Dhimmi.

http://www.meforum.org/2699/muslims-in-catalonia

Seglers argues that a peaceful integration of Muslims in Catalan life is possible if it is based on Muslim acceptance of European democratic values. The author writes that guarantees of religious freedom in Europe must rest not on acceptance of Islamist demands for special treatment but in demarcating the principle that Muslims may become citizens, as long as they jettison the tenets of Islamist ideology. As he writes, “Muslim citizenship” and Islamism remain at odds, producing “hidden conflicts.”

and therein lies a problem, because a liberal democracy is inimical with Sharia Law and all Muslims pray for and therefore want Sharia Law where they live. Unless you face this issue you are pissing in the wind.
Because of Taqiyya silly people like you are useful idiots.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 1:14pm
RRM

Don’t like gay marriage? Don’t get one, and shut the f*ck up had a win today…

Federal court rules California Prop.8 unconstitutional:
http://www.advocate.com/Politics/Prop__8/Breaking_Prop_8_Overturned/

“Proposition 8 fails to advance any rational basis in singling out gay men and lesbians for denial of a marriage license,” Walker wrote. “Indeed, the evidence shows Proposition 8 does nothing more than enshrine in the California Constitution the notion that opposite-sex couples are superior to same-sex couples. Because California has no interest in discriminating against gay men and lesbians, and because Proposition 8 prevents California from fulfilling its constitutional obligation to provide marriages on an equal basis, the court concludes that Proposition 8 is unconstitutional,” Walker wrote.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 1:20pm
Pete George

Mike, why don’t you spend some of your time promoting Christian ideals like peace, understanding, tolerance?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 1:22pm
jinpy

MikeNZ,
Well lots of your links are by people like Daniel Pipes who seem very biased to me.
this article I’m not sure what it is about — it seems to point out how Muslims are different throughout the world. Look, I’ve met muslims in NZ at work, in taxis and they’re alright with me — don’t know a lot about them but they don’t seem to be planning jihad behind my back here so I’m just going to let the sleeping dog lie. I’m not interested in joining the crusade so cross my name off the list.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 1:23pm
Redbaiter

“Federal court rules California Prop.8 unconstitutional:”

Fuck all to do with the Federal Court. Shows just how ignorant uneducated liberals like you and that fuckwit Schawzneggar (?) have fucked up the Republic
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 1:24pm
Jibbering Gibbon

[Pete’s] overall game plan, in order of priority (but with interdependence between them):

1. Survive, and if possible have a good life
2. Raise a family and do what you can to help them achieve (1).
3. Contribute positively to community.
4. Contribute positively to country.
5. Contribute positively to planet.

These are undefined concepts. You seem to have a lot in common with those/things you oppose.

Where or how do your beliefs attain a moral value so they can be called positive or good?

at 12:06 jinpy said :

You’ve successfully commented on an issue without making your stance known?

I made my stance known. How did you manage to write about it and not know what you were writing?
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 1:26pm
Pete George

Mike was a Christian sleeper agent, activated to promote the new crusade. How many amongst us? Better stop more of them immigrating.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 1:27pm
jinpy

P.s just because you quote words like Shari, Dhimmi and Taqiyya doesn’t mean you an authority — it’s like quoting a large number of decimal points in a statistic to show how right it is.
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 1:28pm
Pete George

Maybe this headline is aimed at someone with Redbaiter’s critical thinking ability.

New Zealand Dollar Slides as Surge in Jobless Rate to Slow Rate Increases
0 0
Log in to Reply
Report
August 5, 2010 1:44pm

More comments:

1
2
›

Add a Comment Cancel reply

Login to comment or vote

« Not racist?

Parliament’s sickie system »

Donations

You can now donate to Kiwiblog

Exclusive content from DPF on Patreon

Become a Patron!

Never miss a post

Email Address

Join 37.4K other subscribers

Highlights

Health Target 5 – elective treatments
Health Target 4 – Specialist appointments
Health Target 3 – Emergency Dept Waiting Times
Health Target 2 – Immunisations

Links

"Seymour is only doing openly what M?ori nationalists and their Pakeha allies have been doing, quietly for the past 50 years."
Not PC
Sharp departure in child poverty approach
Point of Order
Continuous Process Improvement
No Minister
New Zealand government urged to back ICC arrest warrants for Israeli leaders without equivocation
The Daily Blog
Popuphobia’s Javier Milei Problem
Utopia
Woman of the day
Hompaddock
Open mike 22/11/2024
The Standard
Drawn
No Right Turn
The transgender agenda sunk Kamala
Bob McCoskrie's McBlog
SETTING THE RECORD STRAIGHT
No Punches Pulled (Bob Jones)
What does “reciprocity” mean in New Zealand laws?
Croaking Cassandra
A Day of Reckoning
NZCPR
This will not end well
Offsetting Behaviour
Top 14 Predictions for Round 10
Stats Chat
Tory Whanau may have to sell Wellington mayoralty to make ends meet
The Civilian
The Accidental Engagement
Imperator Fish
Legal Beagle: Election '23: The Special Votes
Public Address
Making this movie might have been a mistake
Liam Hehir
Why I am retiring from political blogging
Kiwi FireWalker
Angie Warren-Clark: Meet the Newbies
Dan Moskovitz