General Debate 27 August 2010

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krazykiwi

whoar..!!.. eh ..?

(sorry, couldn’t resist)
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August 27, 2010 9:00am
krazykiwi

From The Economist …

How to feed the world – Brazil’s agricultural miracle

The emerging conventional wisdom about world farming is gloomy. There is an alternative

THE world is planting a vigorous new crop: “agro-pessimism”, or fear that mankind will not be able to feed itself except by wrecking the environment. The current harvest of this variety of whine will be a bumper one. Natural disasters—fire in Russia and flood in Pakistan, which are the world’s fifth- and eighth-largest wheat producers respectively—have added a Biblical colouring to an unfolding fear of famine. By 2050 world grain output will have to rise by half and meat production must double to meet demand. And that cannot easily happen because growth in grain yields is flattening out, there is little extra farmland and renewable water is running short.

The world has been here before. In 1967 Paul Ehrlich, a Malthusian, wrote that “the battle to feed all of humanity is over… In the 1970s and 1980s hundreds of millions of people will starve to death.” Five years later, in “The Limits to Growth”, the Club of Rome (a group of business people and academics) argued that the world was running out of raw materials and that societies would probably collapse in the 21st century.

A year after “The Limits to Growth” appeared, however, and at a time when soaring oil prices seemed to confirm the Club of Rome’s worst fears, a country which was then a large net food importer decided to change the way it farmed. Driven partly by fear that it would not be able to import enough food, it decided to expand domestic production through scientific research, not subsidies. Instead of trying to protect farmers from international competition—as much of the world still does—it opened up to trade and let inefficient farms go to the wall. This was all the more remarkable because most of the country was then regarded as unfit for agricultural production.

Yesterday incredible oil-eating microbes. Today the power of better farming to provide the food we need. The resilience of the earth is stronger than the alarmism that would have the majority of us become serfs in a game of global socialist domination.
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August 27, 2010 9:02am
MikeNZ

http://ronbosoldier.blogspot.com/2010/08/12000-year-old-pyramids-discovered-in.html

Couldn’t resist this.
I’ve always loved the pyramids.
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August 27, 2010 9:03am
Inventory2

Let’s make sure that the blame for the tragic death of two people in Christchurch overnight goes fairly and squarely where it should – on the IDIOT disqualified driver who drove an unregistered and unwarranted vehicle at speed, failed to stop when required to by the police, and drove at speed through a red light causing a fatal collision. This was not a “police chase” or a “police pursuit”. This was a case of the police simply doing what they are sworn to do, and another idiot with no regard for the law, and no thought for the consequences of his absolute stupidity.

http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2010/08/police-didnt-do-it.html

Let’s hope that a manslaughter charge follows, and a sentence upon conviction which reflects the severity of this case.
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August 27, 2010 9:13am
Pete George

“Couldn’t resist this.
I’ve always loved the pyramids.”

A bit of a laugh, don’t know if that blog is serious about itself or taking the piss.

Same for their self-description:

American Freedom Fighters are the most dangerous killing machine on the face of the planet: A terrible swift sword of liberty that if given just the right threat and level of pressure will go into full gear and wreak unimaginable destruction on anything or anyone that threatens The Great Republic.
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August 27, 2010 9:19am
MikeNZ

http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/08/weve_made_a_deal_america_picks.html

Blockquote>[ii] A 40% cut in federal spending is about what it would take to balance the current budget.

What is our % to do the same?
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August 27, 2010 9:22am
cabbage

Mike, Reckon theses a stargate inside? :p
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August 27, 2010 9:22am
MikeNZ

Oh petey
What a loon you are.
I loved the idea that those grass covered mounds had real pyramids under them.
I hope they do!

But you had to go for the political stink didn’t you?
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August 27, 2010 9:23am
MikeNZ

Inverntory
The darwin process unfortunately didn’t work this time did it.
sadly.

Echo your stance in protecting the Police.
It’s time people got a year in jail for running from the police, on top of their other sentences.

Police chases are dangerous for the police as well and they are not fun and exciting either.
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August 27, 2010 9:24am
Pete George

Mike, there are also pyramids on Otago Peninsula, near Victory Beach. Maybe Maori go back much earlier here, and had an alien connection too.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/nzpix/2196471415/
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August 27, 2010 9:26am
wreck1080

@inventory -what are you talking about? It is not to serious to run from police in a vehicle and kill someone – at least based on past cases.

Does this case seem familiar?

“A 20-year-old Blenheim woman who fled a police alcohol check-point killing another driver has been sentenced to eight months’ home detention. She was also ordered to complete 160 hours’ community work and was disqualified from driving for three and a half years.”

So, run from police, kill one person and you get 160 hours community work and get sent home for a while.

Kill two people, I imagine 320 hours of community service might be appropriate based on past cases.

Really, vehicle crimes are not treated seriously at all. Drunk driving is even tolerated by the police/justice system.
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August 27, 2010 9:26am
Nookin

“FATAL POLICE CHASE”? NO. “DANGEROUS CRIMINAL KILLS TWO PEOPLE WHEN TRYING TO ESCAPE POLICE” YES
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August 27, 2010 9:35am
malcolm

Which is the bigger train wreck? Our spineless government or the Interest-Free Student Loan Scheme (aka, Training NZer’s for Australia’s Future and paying their drinking money and airfares).

http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/local/the-wellingtonian/4059969/Student-loan-debt-collectors

Student loan debt is now at 10 billion and last year the government estimated that 30% of that would not be repaid. There are a large number of NZer’s who have immigrated and are not repaying their loans. But never fear, Peter Dunne is onto it…

…He’s engaged a consultancy to research private debt collection practices. Here’s some free advice Peter:

1] If you need to engage debt collectors (who take a large cut) then you have no imagination and should resign.

2] Interest. It’s a great way to stop your debtors taking the piss. It increases the amount they owe and encourages them to repay.

3] Interest-Free. This encourages people not to repay. The longer they delay, the less they owe (in real terms).

4] Passports. Probably one of the few points of contact the government has with ex-pat NZers. If you apply to have your passport renewed and you haven’t been making payment on your student loan, then increase the renewal fee to $10,000.

5] Scrap. The bloody scheme. The government has no business lending people money when it patently can’t recover it. Instead we get 15% GST.
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August 27, 2010 9:42am
Pete George

Should police review their vehicle pursuit policy?

What we could do if we had fast feedback driven policy! Any time there is an issue we could run a quick poll and fix it, after it has happened of course but at least we would feel like we are doing something about it.
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August 27, 2010 9:43am
krazykiwi

Aye – what malcolm just said
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August 27, 2010 9:46am
Peter

.
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August 27, 2010 9:51am
MT_Tinman

I2, Nookin, agree 100%.

I do notice the slime are already pushing the “boy racer” crap instead of emphasising the “well known to the police criminal” bit.

A bit surprised they haven’t tried to connect alcohol to the story yet but give the bastards time eh.
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August 27, 2010 9:54am
krazykiwi

From The New York Times … Obama getting voter-driven cold feet on global warming?

Obama Admin Urges Supreme Court to Vacate Greenhouse Gas ‘Nuisance’ Ruling

The Obama administration has urged the Supreme Court to toss out an appeals court decision that would allow lawsuits against major emitters for their contributions to global warming, stunning environmentalists who see the case as a powerful prod on climate change.
:::
“We feel stabbed in the back,” Pawa said. “This was really a dastardly move by an administration that said it was a friend of the environment. With friends like this, who needs enemies?”
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August 27, 2010 9:58am
malcolm

No doubt the “speed limits and speed-cameras ==> socialist tyranny” people will be along shortly to defend the valiant act of social disobedience in Christchurch last night.

Shame about the old couple; still, no-one said the battle for freedom would be easy.
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August 27, 2010 10:00am
Inventory2

@ MT_Tinman – agreed; let’s call it as it is; disqualified driver, unregistered, unwarranted vehicle, speeding, failing to stop for police and running a red light. No surprise that the perp is “well known to Christchurch police”. Let’s hope that he is very soon “well known to Bubba from Pap”!!
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August 27, 2010 10:01am
MikeNZ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ib9rofXQl6w&feature=player_embedded#at=28

3 Things you didn’t know about Islam.
well worth the 8.10 min to watch.
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August 27, 2010 10:09am
RightNow

I think private credit agencies (with debt collection capability) would be a good idea for recovering student debt, unpaid fines and child support defaulters. Basically if the debtor defaults then at the very least it should appear on their credit report.
The ramifications (as quick examples):
For drivers defaulting on their traffic / parking fines would include not being able to get finance for a new vehicle (particularly useful for serial offenders like boy racers)
For parents not paying their child support – no big screen TV’s etc. on HP.
For student debt defaulters (still in NZ) – no mortgage, no goods on HP, no car on finance.
The tricky bit is what to do when the student debt defaulters go overseas – but a good start would be having their loans attract interest as soon as they leave the country, flag their passport to nab them if they come back, and have a trans-Tasman credit agency being notified of the debt.
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August 27, 2010 10:18am
Pete George

3 Things you didn’t know about Islam.

1. What obscure Muslim-bash link MikeNZ will post tomorrow
2. If MikeNZ will ever concede that there might be one Muslim in the world with no evil intent
3. If MikeNZ is really a closet Muslim trying to pretend it’s not real
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August 27, 2010 10:20am
malcolm

Mike, that’s a very good video (and visually neat). But can we trust a video about religion, produced by people who can’t see that the Bible is the word of God and rather describe it as “..parables, advice and dreams..”?

Yes for me.
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August 27, 2010 10:32am
Kris K

Some Americans even knew the danger Islam represented prior to 9-11 …

Teddy Roosevelt On Islam

The following passages were written in 1916 in Teddy Roosevelt’s book, “Fear God and Take Your Own Part”, reproduced in “What Every American Needs to Know About the Qur’an” by William Federer.

Christianity is not the creed of Asia and Africa at this moment solely because the seventh century Christians of Asia and Africa had trained themselves not to fight, whereas the Moslems were trained to fight.Christianity was saved in Europe solely because the peoples of Europe fought. If the peoples of Europe in the seventh and eighth centuries, an on up to and including the seventeenth century, had not possessed a military equality with, and gradually a growing superiority over the Mohammedans who invaded Europe, Europe would at this moment be Mohammedan and the Christian religion would be exterminated. Wherever the Mohammedans have had complete sway, wherever the Christians have been unable to resist them by the sword, Christianity has ultimately disappeared. From the hammer of Charles Martel to the sword of Sobieski, Christianity owed its safety in Europe to the fact that it was able to show that it could and would fight as well as the Mohammedan aggressor. …..The civilization of Europe, American and Australia exists today at all only because of the victories of civilized man over the enemies of civilization because of victories through the centuries from Charles Martel in the eighth century and those of John Sobieski in the seventeenth century. During the thousand years that included the careers of the Frankish soldier and the Polish king, the Christians of Asia and Africa proved unable to wage successful war with the Moslem conquerors; and in consequence Christianity practically vanished from the two continents; and today, nobody can find in them any “social values” whatever, in the sense in which we use the words, so far as the sphere of Mohammedan influences are concerned.There are such “social values” today in Europe, America and Australia only because during those thousand years, the Christians of Europe possessed the warlike power to do what the Christians of Asia and Africa had failed to do — that is, to beat back the Moslem invader.
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August 27, 2010 10:33am
MikeNZ

Malcolm
I take your point, I didn’t put it up for that reason, I was fascinated with the delivery and use of the words which from an art point of view I thought was excellent as well as being so clean and clear. Obviously I appreciate the effort that went into it, but that it was all facts and true make it especially good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvlvS2a2AVE&feature=related
Taqiyya – Lying For Islam

The defence by Islamists is that Taqiyya is for Shias and is historical or for their situation.
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August 27, 2010 10:41am
malcolm

Neat colour photos taken 100 years ago in Russia:

http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2010/08/russia_in_color_a_century_ago.html
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August 27, 2010 10:41am
malcolm

Yeah Mike, it’s really clever. Deceptively simple and very engaging. Those bloody Northern Europeans with their effortless style and clean design lines..
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August 27, 2010 10:47am
MikeNZ

Pete
I am sure that there are many Muslims who are peaceful either because they are in the minority or that is their nature as people, however that is not their religion.
Be clear, their religion is about conquest and they can’t get around that.
The peaceful verses are abrogated by the later and they know it, if they don’t explain that to you then that is Taqiyya.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXF-rJAOHGQ&feature=related
Here’s a channel 4 doco on apostates and converts away from Islam.
These things don’t happen if the community stand up for people.
Does the Islamic community do so?
No?
because this is the basis of Islam and Sharia.

I understand that you are deceived, but I don’t posts for you but the lurkers as we all face Sharia creep.
Sharia is Islam and Islam is Sharia, It is undemocratic and evil.
Denigrating me isn’t going to change that.
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August 27, 2010 10:52am
MikeNZ

Thanks for that Malcolm
a lovely collection, I loved the Khan one, the floodgate supervisor and the Jewish teacher.
Thanks.
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August 27, 2010 10:55am
thedavincimode

Rightnow

Unpaid fines – why not just suspend their driving licenses? Too hard to involve third parties and suspension is a more natural fit with the offence.

Student loans

It is easy to just buggar off from this country and leave debts behind but is seems silly that one govt agency (Customs) allows people to leave the country owing another agency (IRD) money. Something could be done at the border to stop them leaving without having demonstrated the ability and commitment to repay. I’m not for a moment suggesting that would be foolproof, but it is better than nothing. I don’t know the practical consequences of cancelling passports following default on the debt but maybe that warrants consideration.
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August 27, 2010 10:58am
Pete George

I don’t know how that would work davinci. And – their ability to repay can be enhanced by moving overseas. One of my daughters paid off a sizable student loan within three years while she worked (and extensively holidayed) in Europe.
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August 27, 2010 11:03am
Jack5

Inventory 2 at 9.13 on the maniac driver:

Let’s hope that a manslaughter charge follows, and a sentence upon conviction which reflects the severity of this case.

Agreed!

I wonder if the police had been armed whether they could have shot the tyres off before that? Perhaps too much unless they were a pistol-shooting champion. Perhaps if the police carried short-barrel rifles like the Steyr? Or would the two dead then likely to be a couple of pedestrians hit by stray bullets?
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August 27, 2010 11:03am
malcolm

Mike, no smiling in Russia! They have an eerie stillness about them – I’m guessing this was required by his 3-exposure system and you can see in some where a person has moved. Interestingly in No. 32 the chap appears to be wearing an early type of bomb-vest.
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August 27, 2010 11:05am
JiveKitty

My friend just linked to this: http://stopthebillnow.blogspot.com/p/about-search-surveillance-bill.html. I don’t take everything at face value. Anybody know anything about it?
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August 27, 2010 11:06am
JiveKitty

Oh, hm: http://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/search+and+surveillance+bill+amended+better+protect+human+rights although given Power’s record of late I don’t really trust him.
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August 27, 2010 11:25am
thedavincimode

PG, I don’t disagree with that. But your daughter paid off her loan without the requirement for any coercion.

If she had been the sort of person who was prepared to default, then the prospect of having her wings clipped by losing her passport might have made her think again.

Anyway, I don’t pretend that this is a perfect solution. The moves that silver top has indicated are long overdue and I think this government has dropped the ball badly on this one.

There will no doubt be some who are hard to find, but the reality will likely be that those with the biggest debts will be professionals, no doubt in many instances members of overseas professional bodies that in some instances at least, would frown on this behaviour or at the prospect of debtors being bankrupted. The ability for IRD to obtain information from foreign tax authorities is another avenue to consider in tracking them down.

Its pointless in trying to come up with the solution that will recover the full $15b outstanding; all we need to do is make a pretty sizeable dent in . I’ll settle for $10b.
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August 27, 2010 11:32am
Redbaiter

Student loans.. unpaid fines… zzzzz zzzzz zzzz
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August 27, 2010 11:35am
thedavincimode

Ah, sheepbaiter.

When did you move to Methven?
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August 27, 2010 11:37am
Nookin

Here is another one.

“Last night’s deaths brought the total killed in police chases this year to 13. ”

Should be

“last night’s deaths brought the total killed in vehicular homocide this year to 13”

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/4066068/Two-killed-in-Christchurch-after-police-pursuit
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August 27, 2010 11:51am
Viking2

Ah yes but that means that their will be another 6 deaths this year if the polilce continue with their tatics. Is that what you want?
You might be one of those 6!
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August 27, 2010 12:13pm
Pete George

10:52 am “I don’t posts for you but the lurkers ”

Ah, trying to be a lurker converter. But this is General Debate – this would be more appropriate:

http://www.dailypreach.blogsmite.com

Why not try preaching a bit of love and understanding? Crying Muslim too often may turn the whine into water.
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August 27, 2010 12:15pm
Nookin

V2. No I dont. Nor do I want to be cleaned up by an irresponsible driver who knows that he can continue to drive with impunity because the police wont chase him.
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August 27, 2010 12:39pm
Banana Llama

Thank you for the link Malcom those photos are like a time machine.
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August 27, 2010 12:40pm
MT_Tinman

# Viking2 (2,409) Says:
August 27th, 2010 at 12:13 pm

Ah yes but that means that their will be another 6 deaths this year if the polilce continue with their tatics. Is that what you want?
You might be one of those 6!

How many will be killed if the police just let these scumbags do what they want, when they want?

As a professional driver I’ll take that risk thanks.

Two people being murdered by a criminal scum attempting to run away from justice is unfortunate, tragic for the families yes but the price society must pay as long as these scum are loose in society.

First thing, of course, is to forget this manslaughter crap and ensure this scum, and all like him, is both charged and convicted for murder.
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August 27, 2010 12:44pm
joe90

Russian types, photos of Russian workers taken in the latter half of the 19th century.

Slide show here.
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August 27, 2010 12:48pm
Nookin

I seem to recall that the last to death in Christchurch (somewhere near Moorhouse Ave) occurred when a driver took off, having stopped for the police and the accident occurred at a time when the police had barely had a chance to get back in the car to follow. This was publicised by MSM as a death resulting from a police chase.

There was also some criticism of the police as a result of the Invercargill accident when the driver ploughed into a wall in a highly modified car, under the influence of alcohol and at a speed of over 100 K in a 50 K area. He had previously been stopped. It was put to the coroner that the police were responsible because they had not removed the vehicle from the road, knowing that it had been modified.

I have been lucky. Nobody close to me has been killed by or as a drunk or dangerous driver. I cannot really pretend to say that I fully understand the grief that somebody in those circumstances would feel. However, this constant attribution of blame elsewhere (all the fault of it being a police chase, police should have removed the car from the road or whatever) simply seeks to diminish the accountability. The focus goes off the driver and on to the people who are, properly, trying to get him off the road before he kills someone.

The police did not ask this driver to get into an unregistered and unwarranted car. They did not ask him to speed down Ferry Road and they did not ask him or encourage him to take off like a homicidal lunatic when he was asked to stop. His fault. Nobody else contributed.

The very fact that this was an attempt to evade the law by taking off when directed to stop by the police is an aggravating factor and not a mitigating factor.

There should be a separate offence for vehicular homicide and one of the more serious degrees should be death caused by dangerous driving when trying to avoid police.
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August 27, 2010 1:19pm
Inventory2

The Herald has changed it’s headline. Keeping Stock is claiming the credit 🙂

The headline now reads

Two killed in collision with car fleeing police

That’s a much more accurate statement
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August 27, 2010 1:24pm
MSR

Great photos Malcolm! They create a real feel about the time period and the people.

“Interestingly in No. 32 the chap appears to be wearing an early type of bomb-vest.”

I haven’t laughed out loud so much for a long time! Thank you
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August 27, 2010 1:25pm
krazykiwi

@IV2 – Good job. These guys don’t change headlines unless there’s an obvious fault and/or pressure.

I’d like to see the causing of death while knowingly engaged in a criminal act regarded as murder (is these a ‘third degree’ murder?)
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August 27, 2010 1:31pm
tom hunter

Bah – you beat me to it Malcolm. I was showing these to my kids last night. No. 15 – of the Nikolaevski Cathedral in 1911 – is my favourite. The light and precise detail of the colour is just amazing: you could be forgiven for thinking it was taken with a 10Mp SLR.
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August 27, 2010 1:35pm
krazykiwi

Yes Malcolm, that for sharing that Russian photo’s link.

Looks to me like Chthoniid has been engaging in a bit of time travel 🙂
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August 27, 2010 1:37pm
Chthoniid

Wow, someone had a very good eye for composition there. He’s employed diagonals, leading lines, different styles of composition (golden mean, rule of thirds). Very sophisticated work and great use of colours- especially with the technology of the time
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August 27, 2010 2:15pm
Rex Widerstrom

MT_Tinman suggests:

How many will be killed if the police just let these scumbags do what they want, when they want?

If they steal a car and just sneak off with it rather than fleeing the police at high speed? Um, no one would be killed. Property is just property, replaceable and probably insured (and yes, I’ve had mine stolen in the past. Did I want people to die so I could have it back? No thanks).

Two people being murdered by a criminal scum attempting to run away from justice is unfortunate, tragic for the families yes but the price society must pay as long as these scum are loose in society.

No, it’s not actually. Police in the US are now just firing GPS taggers onto the car, then setting up a road block or road spikes at leisure. Some Australian states are considering the same technology. NZ Police, it seems, just like the testosterone rush of a high speed chase too much.

Of course even without a police pursuit some idiots will drive recklessly. Some will even do that in their own cars. And when they do, I agree with you – the appropriate penalty should equate to that for murder, even if we call it manslaughter (maybe we need a new charge – “reckless manslaughter”?)

Writing off the deaths of innocents as necessary collateral damage to retrieve someone’s stolen property shows an odd scale of values. Personally, I want to see no one die unnecessarily.
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August 27, 2010 2:35pm
Pete George

Former Republican Committee Chairman Announces He’s Gay

Mehlman, who was campaign manager for President George W. Bush in 2004 and then RNC chairman after Bush’s re-election, told The Atlantic in an interview published online Wednesday that he came to the conclusion he is gay recently and wanted to talk about it publicly because he wants to become an advocate for gay marriage.

“It’s taken me 43 years to get comfortable with that part of my life,” said Mehlman. “Everybody has their own path to travel, their own journey, and for me, over the past few months, I’ve told my family, friends, former colleagues and current colleagues and they’ve been wonderful and supportive. The process has been something that has made me a happier and better person. It’s something I wish I had done years ago.”

Dick Cheney is another associated with the Bush years who is a supporter of gayness. Some on the right can accept that it can be normal for a minority of people.

“reckless manslaughter”

That sounds like a sensible term to add. It’s quite different to accidental manslaughter.
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August 27, 2010 2:51pm
roger rabbit

On the road alot,has anyone noticed the number of dark vehicles driving with no lights on in the dark, BLACK(dark) VEHICLES dark night no lights??? must be PUSSYS driving as to see the dash you would need cats eyes
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August 27, 2010 3:13pm
starboard

Rex Widerstrom (3,266)

no you’ve got it wrong again Rex. You can’t have filth giving Police the finger and driving off at great speed. They need to be pursued and stopped at all cost otherwise there would be anarchy. It’s also called respect for the law Rex…respect for the Police. I know you have trouble with the latter.
This prick has killed two innocent people. His punishment should be death.
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August 27, 2010 3:31pm
gravedodger

rex @ 2 35 Unnecessarily? The little piece of kuri tutae was a danger to innocents when speeding in Ferry Rd before he got to Fitzgerald Av where he ran the red and took out the two pensioners. What if it had been a people mover loaded with up to 9 kids on their way home from a ballet performance.

Ferry Rd is a very narrow and somewhat chaotic bit of ChCh rd and arterially significant. Any speeding there is a very fraught activity at any time and as I use it reasonably frequently I appreciate plod keeping it relatively safe.

The lesson here is that this little scroat should spend some time at Paparoa and get acquainted with others of his class and Intimately.
And please dont confuse me with someone who actually gives a shit what befalls him.

Reckless manslaughter is one of the more enlightened ideas to come from this tradgedy visited on the family of theinnocent victims.
If Inventory 2’s intervention in the early hours of this morning had an influence on the herald headline then bloody well done as our local radio pravda has continually used the “police pursuit” line all day, muppetts.
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August 27, 2010 3:36pm
Viking2

Well my dash lights have never worked and I’d rather watch the road and the clowns upon it than watch the dashboard.
Who ever thought of driving to the conditions rather than driving according to the prescription of the law?
Oh well no wonder there are so many who are a danger.
More interested in fidling with the blinker stick than watching what they are doing to other road users. Thank God cell phones have been banned. The worst of the annal twats that used them have at least stopped. Still plenty of men who think its OK.
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August 27, 2010 3:40pm
Rex Widerstrom

starboard suggests:

You can’t have filth giving Police the finger and driving off at great speed.

No, you can’t. So you GPS tag them, don’t scream after them with your siren and lights on, and hope like hell the lack of pursuit means they don’t drive at a dangerous speed.

If they slow down as a result of not being chased, lives are saved. If they don’t, then we’ve lost and gained nothing… they’re still a risk, they’ll still get caught, but there’ll be no question that the police contributed to the deaths of innocents.

They need to be pursued and stopped at all cost otherwise there would be anarchy.

That’s hilarious. There has to be high speed police chases with lights and sirens on, with spotty young constables getting their rocks off at 140 km/h, or there’d be anarchy?!

I’d suggest that what would stop anarchy was, when the bastards were caught by a road bloxk or tyre spikes and arrested, the courts imposed massively harsher penalties if they’d driven recklessly despite being not pursued, and that they faced a reckless mansalughter charge if they killed anyone.

The thought of a police chase isn’t going to deter a single idiot. Most probably love the idea… it’s a bit of fun on a boring night. The thought of getting caught without much fuss and (if they put lives at risk) spending a much longer times than at present serving out their punishment, would however.
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August 27, 2010 3:47pm
Rex Widerstrom

gravedodger says:

The little piece of kuri tutae was a danger to innocents when speeding in Ferry Rd before he got to Fitzgerald Av where he ran the red and took out the two pensioners.

You obviously know the area better than me… I haven’t been near Ferry Rd for the best part of 15 years. But was he speeding before the police started chasing him? The way I read it they spotted someone “known to the police” (which can mean anything from “dangerous criminal” to “someone who’s pissed us off”) driving an unregistered car, tried to pull him over and he took off.

In that sitaution I’d advocate firing a GPS tracker and/or calling in a chopper, backing off immediately in the hope the “little piece of kuri tutae” slowed down, and scooping him up with a roadblock or tyre spikes at the first available opportunity.

Of course that’d mean we’d need enough police on our roads at night to do such things, not tucked up at home in their beds after a hard day spent behind a radar gun raising money for the government (which isn’t, of course, the fault of the working police but of the hierarchy and the politicians).
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August 27, 2010 3:53pm
thedavincimode

Rex, perhaps an acceptable compromise would be to fire a GPS tagger into the driver’s head?
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August 27, 2010 4:05pm
PaulD

Rex, advocating firing a GPS tracker sounds good in theory but the police car still has to get to within a few car lengths of the speeding car. That doesn’t stop short car chases just the epic dramas usually seen in the US.
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August 27, 2010 4:14pm
Luc Hansen

What about just putting an RPG launcher (armed and ready to go) in every police car?

You know, as seen on TV (in Baghdad).
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August 27, 2010 4:16pm
thedavincimode

Excellent. Now we’re getting somewhere. Will you start the petition?

But it would need to be a real RPG – not an “as seen on TV” mail order job.
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August 27, 2010 4:17pm
alex Masterley

The GPS thingy sounds like a good idea, but firng the tracker at and hitting the rice rocket in question if the oik behind the wheel decides to take off could be problematic.
For example how would it have worked last night? As I understand it the car was signalled to pull over, moved to do so then took off with the cops still sitting in the car. 24-25 seconds later bang as the oik in the car hits one containing two innocents.
How and when was the tracker supposed to be fired?
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August 27, 2010 4:20pm
MikeNZ

malcolm (1,626) Says:
August 27th, 2010 at 11:05 am

Looks Like cartridges.

My favourite is no 28 the Amir, what a character and the blue coat is just splendid.
Loved the google map facility
Thanks nearly as good as some of Chthoniid Friday pictures.
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August 27, 2010 4:27pm
Luc Hansen

More Mosque madness on FoxTV today. An Arab-American skewered O’Reilly stand-in (the beautiful but foaming) Laura Ingraham by his up-front assertion that opposition to the Mosque is bigotry, pure and simple. She was almost hysterical by the end of that segment. So funny.

Then there was a replay of an O’Reilly interview of a very brave lawyer where he again advocated wanton murder. He seems to have extended his scope murders since his stunningly successful campaign to have Dr George Tiller killed (Tiller, Tiller, baby killer).

Such a nice show.
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August 27, 2010 4:40pm
Rex Widerstrom

PaulD says:

Rex, advocating firing a GPS tracker sounds good in theory but the police car still has to get to within a few car lengths of the speeding car.

Yeah, there’d often be a short chase, but once the tracker was attached they could back off. I’m not saying it will cut the deaths of innocents to zero, just reduce the number. And after all, that’s the justification used for criminalising us if we do 110 km/h on the motorway…

That doesn’t stop short car chases just the epic dramas usually seen in the US.

They’re not standard issue across the US because there’s thousands of police departments, meaning nothing is standard. There’ll always be enough “Sherrif Joes” to keep those stupid “America’s wildest police chases” shows in footage. Mind you, those shows wouldn’t exist if most PDs there didn’t have dashboard cameras in their police cruisers.

Why not in NZ? Then we wouldn’t be second guessing what happened last night.

alex Masterley asks::

How and when was the tracker supposed to be fired?

I’d suggest – as soon as a police car is in range of a vehicle it wishes to pull over and which has been being driven erratically or contains someone “known to the police”, even if it looks like the driver may be going to comply.
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August 27, 2010 5:02pm
mikeysmokes

Go the Warriors
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August 27, 2010 5:39pm
Steve

@ Luc Hansen
Many times today you have tried to hijack General Debate to your religious bullshit.
Nobody is biting, it is General Debate, not Generally Religious Debate. Remember just because you don’t see comments it does not mean people are not reading the Blog.
So kindly fuck off and take your shit to a chat room
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August 27, 2010 6:21pm
reid

NEW YORK – A university student who did volunteer work in Afghanistan was charged yesterday with slashing a Bangladeshi taxi driver’s neck and face after the driver said he was Muslim.

A criminal complaint alleges Michael Enright uttered an Arabic greeting and told the driver, “Consider this a checkpoint,” before the brutal attack occurred inside the yellow cab on Manhattan’s East Side.

Police say Enright was drunk at the time.

Besides a serious neck wound, cabbie Ahmed Sharif suffered cuts to his forearms, his face and one hand while trying to fend off Enright, prosecutor James Zeleta said.

Defence lawyer Jason Martin told the judge his client was an honours student who lives with his parents in New York.

Enright volunteered for Intersections International, a group that promotes interfaith dialogue and has supported plans for an Islamic centre and mosque two blocks from Ground Zero.

Sharif, a 43-year-old Bangladeshi immigrant who’s driven a cab for 15 years, was quoted as saying the attack left him shaken.

Sharif told authorities that during the trip Enright asked him whether he was a Muslim. When he said yes, Enright attacked him.

See here’s the deal with those above who conflate an adherent of a religion with their shallow, vapid and selective interpretation of what that religion actually says, as reflected by the way the vast majority of those adherents behave. Notice boys, that when you look at the facts of how many Muslims exist vs how many are terrorists as in factually, actually, behaving like that. Unlike you I don’t count myself an expert on understanding precisely how many people are “thinking of behaving like a terrorist” because from the way you talk, you seem to know precisely, and I myself actually have no fucking idea, since I’m not a mind-reader. I’d like to be, but I’d probably spend most of my time thinking about how to get that girl over there’s thoughts to turn toward me in a nice way, so however you gained your special mind-reading powers, if indeed that’s what it takes to become one of you Holy Warriors, I won’t be of much use to you.

So I’m stuck with plain old boring facts. Pure and simple. Data. Science. Numbers. Verifiable. Evidence. I’m sorry my argument’s not as strong as yours, but nevertheless I humbly submit as follows.

1) Total Muslim population: eleventy gajillion
2) Total terrorists who do something bad, factually: 20 million – I include Muslims who knowingly donate to terrorist organisations in that estimate

Now, eleventy gajillion is fucking huge, compared to that. It’s about 0.000000000000000000000000014 of the total Muslim population.

I know that your special mind-reading powers give you evidence I don’t have, but until I have those special powers myself, I’m just going to have to stick to the evidence, as factually demonstrated above.

BTW, just because you could probably point me to at least 20,000 websites that tell me just how dangerous and terrible every single Muslim in the world really truly is, that doesn’t make it so, and you don’t have to be a rocket scientist to work it out, you know.
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August 27, 2010 6:29pm
Luc Hansen

Lift your glassy up a notch or two Steve. The Islamophobes started arriving about 10.00am.

Closing comment to you, Dorkface, fuck off.
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August 27, 2010 6:36pm
Kris K

reid 6:29 pm,

I know that your special minds-reading powers give you evidence I don’t have, but until I have those special powers myself, I’m just going to have to stick to the evidence, as factually demonstrated above.

I always thought that “special minds-reading powers” were one of the spiritual gifts that got dished out at conversion …
Sorry to hear that you missed out, Reid. 😉
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August 27, 2010 6:47pm
reid

🙂
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August 27, 2010 6:48pm
Kris K

Steve 6:21 pm,

@ Luc Hansen
Many times today you have tried to hijack General Debate to your religious bullshit.
Nobody is biting, it is General Debate, not Generally Religious Debate. Remember just because you don’t see comments it does not mean people are not reading the Blog.
So kindly fuck off and take your shit to a chat room

You tell him, Steve.
Gee I hate these religious types …
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August 27, 2010 6:50pm
Hurf Durf

In today’s edition of News That Doesn’t Get Reported Because It Doesn’t Suit The Media’s Left Wing Narrative:

We missed an important moment at the Miss Universe pageant on Saturday night. The outgoing Miss Universe made a little political statement on her final catwalk that was visible to Venezuelans but probably no one else, holding up an obsolete seven star pre-Chavez era flag. She did it to signal distress in her country, and nowhere is that move evident than in Venezuela’s violent crime. This week the news came out that Caracas is the most violent city in the world, a distinction it holds over Kabul, Baghdad, Sao Paulo and Ciudad Juarez.

Of course, if it was an act of protest against Arizona’s Bigoted Racist Governor(tm) it would have been all over CNN, the Grauniad etc. They like the world’s approval of the Narrative, you see.
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August 27, 2010 7:39pm
MT_Tinman

Rex Widerstrom

In reply to your many posts let me state first up that the stolen car thing is a red herring.

The police had a disqualified driver driving an unwarranted, unregistered car.

They as normal turned their lights on to indicate to the driver he should stop.

He didn’t, instead driving off at speed and thirty seconds later (note that bit Rex) failed to stop (obviously faulty brakes that failed the warrant).

You will note if you read the report that the police were well behind, not having had time to catch up with the absconding car when it failed to stop.

How the fuck were they going to be able to shoot a bloody scanner into the car?

What would you be posting if the car had been allowed to proceed along it’s desired path and had had brake failure (remember the car couldn’t stop at the Gloucester/Fitzgerald Ave. Cnr. ) and cleaned up a dozen school children on an evening outing?

As for the crime, the scum killed people while committing a crime (at least three, failing to stop, failing to stop and driving while disqualified). That is murder.
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August 27, 2010 8:11pm
Steve

Luc,
10am? well some of us are well into the working day by then and we do not have access to a computer let alone blogs.
I wish my employer would allow me to stir religious shit on blogs. I want your job. It would be nice to have a day on the net while I should be working.
Nope, I do the DIRTY JOB, the job that is productive and pays TAX so the tossers can spend all day on the blogs
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August 27, 2010 8:12pm
krazykiwi

@MT_Tinman – I agree. This guy was breaking so many safety-related laws that to not attempt to stop him would have been tantamount to duplicity in any harm he may have subsequently have caused.

I’d like to see the causing of death while knowingly engaged in a criminal act regarded as murder.

Fleeing from police should attract a $20,000 and a 1 year loss of licence .. plus double punishment for whatever other offences were being committed at the time (speeding, driving without a licence).

If the police ask you to stop, you stop. It should either be simple, or seriously expensive. Your choice.
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August 27, 2010 9:07pm
Redbaiter

Reid 6:29 “See here’s the deal with those above who conflate an adherent of a religion with their shallow, vapid and selective interpretation of what that religion actually says, as reflected by the way the vast majority of those adherents behave.”

I’m not really sure of the point you’re trying to make but I wonder if you’re aware that the attack you reference is most likely a “false flag” attack designed to draw sympathy to the cause of the Mosque builders. Or more accurately, to demonise those who oppose it.
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August 27, 2010 9:28pm
Redbaiter

“An Arab-American skewered O’Reilly stand-in (the beautiful but foaming) Laura Ingraham”

No he didn’t. He made a complete fool of himself by repeatedly asserting it was a “Constitutional Issue” when it is not. It only becomes a constitutional issue if the government legislates to prevent it, and your friend was clearly too damn dumb to appreciate that simple point.

“by his up-front assertion that opposition to the Mosque is bigotry, pure and simple.”

Another misrepresentation. There are many good and reasonable grounds to oppose the building of the mosque and this being so, the opposition cannot be “pure and simple bigotry”. This was the assertion of an idiot, a typical limp wristed cross wired RINO lamer of the kind we need to get out of the party pronto.

“She was almost hysterical by the end of that segment.”

She wasn’t anywhere near hysterical. You’re a complete lunatic.

“So funny.”

Yawn. I know you’re a classic communist lamer Luc, but if you were laughing at that, the situation must in reality be a lot worse. You’re obviously far too low in IQ to comprehend what your eyes are seeing.
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August 27, 2010 9:43pm
Redbaiter

Luc Hansen at Ground Zero?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MF_tL8m9e-c&feature=player_embedded
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August 27, 2010 9:47pm
reid

“I’m not really sure of the point you’re trying to make but I wonder if you’re aware that the attack you reference is most likely a “false flag” attack designed to draw sympathy to the cause of the Mosque builders. Or more accurately, to demonise those who oppose it.”

Crikey.

This sounds serious, RB.

What do you think we should do?
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August 27, 2010 10:40pm
JiveKitty

Hm. It’s not a mosque. It’s not at ground zero. It’s a few blocks away. If whoever’s building the Muslim community centre owns the land, it’s a case of property rights. They are legally allowed to build Muslim community centres in the USA, therefore if they own the land and community centres are allowed under the area’s zoning then there should be no problem or controversy with it legally. If it was at ground zero, there is still no legal case for it not to be built. If there are people who are offended for whatever reason, they certainly have the right to voice that sense of being offended.

I don’t know what the “good and reasonable grounds” to oppose this are, however, (and I state this despite my belief that Islam is an abhorrent religion with much more bad than good) given that while those who crashed the planes into the towers were Muslims, as MikeNZ’s noted despite taqiyya, not all Muslims are terrorists or have the inclination – and this is a Muslim community centre, i.e. somewhere Muslims can go in community with each other rather than somewhere Muslims with such inclinations go to decide on and plan further acts of terrorism. Care to elaborate, Redbaiter?

Unless we’re actually discussing a mosque to be built elsewhere and there are actually good reasons to oppose it (although I’d like to know the reasons still)?
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August 27, 2010 10:53pm
Redbaiter

“They are legally allowed to build Muslim community centres in the USA,”

For fuck’s sake. Did you read at all what I said above? Who the hell has ever said they have “no legal right”. What is it with you people that you keep bringing up such a red herring?? Are you completely and irrecoverably retarded?? Really, I struggle to come to any other conclusion.

One reason to oppose it, good or not, is that it is “insensitive” to those whose friends and family died due to an attack by US hating Muslims. Surely any liberal would have to identify with this reason or is it just another example of the rank hypocrisy that underpins everything of the left in that insensitivity is only a one way street that can never be applied in the case of white American Christian conservatives?

You want a more rational reason? Well the most obvious is that the building of this mosque in such a place, especially given its murky origins and motives, is going to be a severe set back to relations between Muslims and the rest of America. Its driving a wedge in that relationship that only widens the split created by the 9/11 attacks. Nobody who really cared about cultural harmony and building social bridges would want to do it. If this mosque is built, it will be the death knell for the public acceptance of the Muslim religion in the US.
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August 27, 2010 11:12pm
JiveKitty

Again, it’s not a mosque. It’s not at ground zero. It’s a few blocks away. It’s not a case of the community centre being imposed given the property rights and the way in which they were acquired (not by force). It’s not insensitive, unless people are being irrational and conflating US Muslims – who are not necessarily terrorists or inclined to terrorism – with US-hating Muslim terrorists. You might have had a point if it was actually a mosque, given what the religion in and of itself encourages, but Muslims are not the religion. The disharmony will be caused by the irrational conflation of Muslims with Muslim terrorists. That conflation should not be fostered or else there really can be no cultural harmony and I sense harmony is what you truly would like to see coming from this situation, Red.

It’s okay, Red, if I’m insensitive it’s equal opportunities. For example, I encouraged Everybody Draw Mohammed Day because I believe in freedom of and freedom from religion. But that’s fine, if you want to think it’s only a one-way street with me when it comes to my values, I’m okay with that.

And to be honest, if people want to respond and put a strip joint next to the community centre and they have the property rights to do so, even though it’ll be insensitive to Muslims – as they’ll be doing it in response to the community centre – I’m okay with that. Those who put the community centre there should not be spared despite offence that may be caused to them. It’ll be their choice if they do take offence and it will, again, be irrational, given that they won’t be forced to have anything to do with such a strip joint.
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August 27, 2010 11:35pm

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