General Debate 24 August 2010

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Inventory2

This is yesterday’s story, but it’s of serious concern nonetheless. How can Justice Alan McKenzie put the interests of the convicted rapist of a 15yo young woman above those of the community into which he has been released? There is something very, very wrong here.

http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2010/08/what.html

The more I ponder this story, the angrier I get.
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August 24, 2010 7:01am
Grant Michael McKenna

This is what a campaign advert should look like! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUKHWnpsOL8
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August 24, 2010 7:14am
Grant Michael McKenna

I2: as always, I hope that there is more to the story. In the meantime, I shall continue watching whaling sites for any interesting news.
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August 24, 2010 7:17am
Short Shriveled and Slightly to the Left

Surely the police could excuse this woman for giving her son the thrashing he deserves

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/4053784/Drunken-youths-trash-house

Note: she hasnt actually thrashed him……. that is a suggestion to her
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August 24, 2010 7:37am
rouppe

You can now opt out of having your personal details (name and address) available from a query to the motor vehicle register.

https://transact.nzta.govt.nz/transactions/PersonalInfoAccess/entry.aspx

I had massive problems several years ago with a shitty finance company getting my name and address from the motor vehicle register. They simply refused to stop sending me their material until I started threatening some pretty serious consequences
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August 24, 2010 7:45am
peterwn

Inventory2 – It is not clear here what the judge was tasked to do. In particular the sentencing with respect to objectionable materials was not stated. Preventative detention would have not been an option. The main thing that seems to be at issue is suppression of name etc.

Name suppression or not, it seems only a matter of time before he seriously reoffends and would probably be sentenced to preventative detention then. There is possibly a greater chance that he will reform and not reoffend with name suppression than if his name and location is known and he is hounded by the public. This was the main consideration with respect to name suppression.

Apart from that, the ball is really in Parliament’s court – the judge can only interpret and apply the law as set by Parliament and in accordance with previous Appeal Court judgments.
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August 24, 2010 8:04am
Inventory2

@ peterwn – I noted in my original blog-post that Justice McKenzie was almost certainly applying the law. If that is the case, then the law is an ass. I have been made aware of the identity of the accused, and have learned a little more about his 1998 offending, and it is at the bad end of the scale. The fact that he has been flagged as being of medium to high risk of reoffending should concern us all. Here’s what the judge said:

Several reports given to the court concluded the man’s overall risk of reoffending was “medium to high”.

“If he continues to demonstrate a number of characteristics which have been seen to be revealed by the testing, there is a high probability … that he will engage in serious sexual offending involving violent sexual assault within five years of release, with this risk remaining over 10 years,” Justice MacKenzie said.

“This offending will place female adults and adolescents under the age of 16 years at risk.”

Despite this, he has been released ANONYMOUSLY into the community, albeit with extra supervision. Why are HIS rights given greater prominence than the protection of the community into which he has been released?
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August 24, 2010 8:19am
Murray

Perhaps the judge might like to take some responsibility if this, or more accurately, WHEN this guy reoffends.

Didn’t think so. The first responsibility of a socitety is the protection of young girls, not continuing the failing attempts to rehabilitate a threat to those young girls while protecting their identity.

This is the name supression case that people should be getting pissed off about, not the bukllshit ones where we don’t get to know all the jucy details of what minor celeb has been accused of doing before the trial has even started.

Way to demonstrate some fucked up prioroities New Zealand
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August 24, 2010 8:50am
Manolo

More crap on the Dom Post on an article claimg Nia Glassie’s mother is a “victim of the system”.
So, all of us share the burden and are responsibility for the killing of this inocent baby at the hands of the savages that pass as “parents” and “relatives”.

An excellent example of total abdication of individual responsibility (after years of social indoctrination.)
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August 24, 2010 9:31am
Murray

The victim is Nia glassie, not the trash who enabled her murder.
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August 24, 2010 9:35am
Inventory2

Quite correct Murray. Lisa Kuka is not a “victim of the system”. She is living, breathing evidence that “the system” is completely and utterly stuffed.
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August 24, 2010 9:42am
Murray

We’re seeing quite a bit of that these days Inv.
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August 24, 2010 9:44am
backster

The prospect of this Rapist reforming would be miniscule, of re-offending in the short term very high, of being supervised (by who) weasel words to pass the buck of responsibility when he re-offends, concealing his identity and locality in my view close to accessory before the fact.
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August 24, 2010 9:48am
MT_Tinman

# Inventory2 (4,941) Says:
August 24th, 2010 at 9:42 am

Quite correct Murray. Lisa Kuka is not a “victim of the system”. She is living, breathing evidence that “the system” is completely and utterly stuffed.

I agree.

Maybe this govt. could do something useful for a change (fat chance that!) and introduce the compulsory introduction of corks for this type of female.
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August 24, 2010 9:49am
krazykiwi

Not sure if you are aware of this but a new law is coming into effect on 1 November that allows anyone ‘authorised’ to get your name and address just by supplying your licence plate number. You can opt out from this by visiting the NZ Transport Authority website and going through a few forms. You will need your driver’s licence to proceed. I’m a bit concerned that someone can see you driving down the road, in your nice car, setting out on holiday, look up your address and break in while you are away. Odd kind of law really!

The website lets you enter multiple number plates but it seems you would need to do it again if you change cars. This link will get you to the appropriate place: NZTA – Revoke authorised access to my personal details
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August 24, 2010 9:55am
Murray

Good luck with that krazy, I ride a bike.
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August 24, 2010 9:57am
KiwiGreg

Thanks KK, useful information
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August 24, 2010 10:01am
krazykiwi

@Murray – so do I. There are one or two Wellington days each year when I prefer the car though 🙂
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August 24, 2010 10:03am
Manolo

Muchas gracias, kk.
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August 24, 2010 10:05am
Murray

It could damage me cred as right wing fascist gorebul warming denier and eater of baby seals krazy but its cheaper than a car.
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August 24, 2010 10:05am
dime

can someone give me an update on the aussie election?? im out of the loop!

whos gonna be PM?
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August 24, 2010 10:05am
Kris K

More Turmoil in Physics:

Speed of Light Slowing Down?
By Chris Bennett
© 2010 WorldNetDaily.com

The theory of evolution requires unfathomable lengths of time – eons … billions and billions of years.

Even with all that time, it’s still hard to imagine how complex biochemicals such as hemoglobin or chlorophyll self assembled in the primordial goo. But to those of us who question the process, the answer is always the same. Time. More time than you can grasp – timespans so vast that anything is possible, even chance combinations of random chemicals to form the stunning complexities of reproducing life.

Modern physics is now considering a theory that could throw into confusion virtually all of the accepted temporal paradigms of 20th-century science, including the age of the universe and the billions of years necessary for evolution. Further, it raises the distinct possibility that scientific validation exists for a (gasp) literal interpretation of the seminal passages of Genesis. Goodbye Scopes trial.

The theory is deceptively simple: The speed of light is not constant, as we’ve been taught since the early 1930s, but has been steadily slowing since the first instance of time.

If true, virtually all aspects of traditional physics are affected, including the presumed steady state of radioactive decay used to measure geologic time.

It’s an intriguing story – and like many revolutions in science, it begins with observations that just don’t fit currently accepted scientific dogma.

Early in 1979, an Australian undergraduate student named Barry Setterfield, thought it would be interesting to chart all of the measurements of the speed of light since a Dutch astronomer named Olaf Roemer first measured light speed in the late 17th century. Setterfield acquired data on over 163 measurements using 16 different methods over 300 years. […]

Setterfield expected to see the recorded speeds grouped around the accepted value for light speed, roughly 299,792 kilometers /second. In simple terms, half of the historic measurements should have been higher and half should be lower.

What he found defied belief: The derived light speeds from the early measurements were significantly faster than today. Even more intriguing, the older the observation, the faster the speed of light. A sampling of these values is listed below:

• In 1738: 303,320 +/- 310 km/second
• In 1861: 300,050 +/- 60 km/second
• In 1877: 299,921 +/- 13 km/second
• In 2004: 299,792 km/second (accepted constant) […]

… have all published work advocating their belief that light speed was much higher – as much as 10 to the 10th power faster – in the early stages of the “Big Bang” than it is today. […]

Setterfield now believes there are at least four other major observed anomalies consistent with a slowing speed of light:

1) quantized red-shift observations from other galaxies,
2) measured changes in atomic masses over time,
3) measured changes in Planck’s Constant over time,
4) and differences between time as measured by the atomic clock, and time as measured by the orbits of the planets in our solar system.

Perhaps the most interesting of these is the quantized red-shift data. […]

Dr. William Tifft, now retired from the University of Arizona, measured and recorded red-shift data for over 20 years. Dr. Tifft found that the red-shift data were not random at all, but grouped into quantum bands.

Quantum red-shift data simply does not fit in the comfortable world of classical physics.

Where it does fit, like it was made for it, is in the Setterfield Hypothesis. According to Setterfield and others, declining light speeds would cause changes in the quantum states of atomic structure within these galaxies, leading to quantum shifts in the light emitted – precisely what Dr. Tifft and others detected.

Setterfield believes that the speed of light was initially about 10 to the 10th power faster than it is today. After the creation of the universe, light speed declined following a curve approximating the curve of the cosecant squared. He believes that light speed reached a point where it is asymptotic since the mid 1960s. Though reasonably constant, he believes the speed still varies in waves – sometimes higher and sometimes lower than the accepted standard. […]
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August 24, 2010 10:07am
backster

I was interested to read that the Government Superannuation Fund the one Phil GOFF wants to borrow two billion a year to invest in made a small profit last quarter following two negative quarters.. The overall growth since 2003 is a little over 6% but that is before tax leaving a comparative return of 4%. Surely the Government could have used the money contributed directly on essential infrastructure instead of channelling it through a Commission and various fund managers and ticket clippers before arriving at such a result.
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August 24, 2010 10:12am
Kris K

dime 10:05 am,

can someone give me an update on the aussie election?? im out of the loop!

whos gonna be PM?

I reckon the current incumbent in number three postion at the UN may be able to help you out with your query, Dime.
Just give her a tinkle on her direct line …
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August 24, 2010 10:17am
dime

the law prohibits me from contacting helen in any way 🙁
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August 24, 2010 10:23am
Rodders

This is what a campaign advert should not look like

1949 Country Party
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August 24, 2010 10:38am
Chthoniid

By Chris Bennett
© 2010 WorldNetDaily.com

The theory of evolution requires unfathomable lengths of time – eons … billions and billions of years.

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
What a moron.

Yeah, that’s why we don’t have any drug-resistant bacteria. Hasn’t been enough time yet.
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August 24, 2010 10:44am
RRM

DPF: I’ve never had an RTD myself.

Respect.
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August 24, 2010 10:49am
tom hunter

The following article was in the WSJ and was written by, of all people, Scott Adams of Dilbert fame.

It’s actually a serious look at what is involved in trying to build a “Green” house. Given the bureaucratic insanities involved you can see that the World of Dilbert is alive and well. Still, it’s not actually a “funny”.

He mainly looks at the practical problems involved, which are huge and less about the technologies than the societal infrastructure we have around construction that actually stymies the effort. Enjoy How I (almost) Saved The Earth
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August 24, 2010 10:57am
RRM

^^^Builders, Architects and Engineers not wanting to sign their life away on the use of bullsh!t, hippy building materials that aren’t adequately tested and probably don’t work is hardly bureaucracy gone mad tom!
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August 24, 2010 11:03am
malcolm

Interesting, Krazykiwi. It seems that the new arrangement is more restrictive than the existing. Who knew:

“A new law will come into effect on 1 November 2010 that will better protect your personal information on the Motor Vehicle Register. For more information see ‘Law changes to protect your personal information’

Who has access to my personal information? – Currently, the names and addresses held on the Motor Vehicle Register are publicly available to any person who provides the registration plate number of the vehicle and pays the prescribed fee.”

http://www.nzta.govt.nz/vehicle/registration-licensing/information.html
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August 24, 2010 11:09am
Murray

… er gosh?

Thanks Kris.
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August 24, 2010 11:11am
tom hunter

…..is hardly bureaucracy gone mad tom!

I guess it depends on the degree to which you can disentangle bureaucracy from societal infrastructure. Which is to say, the ultimate ideal is to have every one of us thinking like a bureaucrat in everything we do – have I followed all the rules?
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August 24, 2010 11:19am
eszett

Kris K (2,895) Says:
August 24th, 2010 at 10:07 am

More Turmoil in Physics:

Speed of Light Slowing Down?
By Chris Bennett
© 2010 WorldNetDaily.com

More creationist bullshit and nonsense from Kris K.
Why bother with checking the facts anyway?

For further reading

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/c-decay.html

“While the creationist camp would have us believe that the theory of c-decay represented a viable scientific alternative to uniformity, and collapsed only under recent, more intense scrutiny, the thrust of this article is to show that the theory was riddled with massive flaws and glaring contradictions from the very start, and was kept alive as long as it was solely by wishful thinking and grotesque deception on the part of its supporters (a sort of Australian Paluxy River, if you will).

The initial hint of trouble in Setterfield’s work is found in his very first article, from which the quote above is extracted. In addition to Setterfield’s reference to “an act of creation only 6-7000 years ago,” he states that one of his goals is to reconcile “the observational problems of astronomy and Genesis creation …”. Setterfield’s religious motivation is now clear, and if his revised figure for the age of the universe just happens to match the now-discredited chronology of Bishop Ussher (about 6,000 years), it would probably not be a coincidence.”
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August 24, 2010 11:32am
grumpyoldhori

Are conservative types a little slow ? that bloke Tony Abbot stating that a mix of copper and wireless is good enough for Australia’s broad band backbone.
Hmm, wonder where they will get all the wireless spectrum they need from, unlike fibre it cannot be made.
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August 24, 2010 12:34pm
Atheist1

^^^^ He also said that gays “make him nervous” and that “the greatest gift a woman could give her husband was her virginity” (does she get a car in return?!) so wonders never cease that anyone takes him seriously
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August 24, 2010 12:47pm
Kris K

eszett 11:32 am,

“Speed of Light Slowing Down?”

More creationist bullshit and nonsense from Kris K.
Why bother with checking the facts anyway?

For further reading

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/c-decay.html

While the creationist camp would have us believe that the theory of c-decay represented a viable scientific alternative to uniformity, and collapsed only under recent, more intense scrutiny, the thrust of this article is to show that the theory was riddled with massive flaws and glaring contradictions from the very start, and was kept alive as long as it was solely by wishful thinking and grotesque deception on the part of its supporters (a sort of Australian Paluxy River, if you will).

Setterfield’s response to Robert P. J. Day’s refutation (link above) of his c-decay hypothesis:

In the meantime, my work is still continuing on other aspects of the topic. In line with work done by Tifft, Van Flandern, Puthoff, Troitskii, and a number of other researchers, it appears that there is some solid evidence in space itself regarding the changing speed of light. This is the subject of a paper completed this year which has been submitted to a physics journal for peer review. Others from both evolution and creation backgrounds are also continuing research regarding the changing speed of light. As a result, c-decay is alive and well, and Robert Day’s dismissal of the proposition appears to be somewhat premature.

Barry Setterfield, August 2000.
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August 24, 2010 12:48pm
Don the Kiwi

“Barry Setterfield, August 2000”.

Hardly current breathtaking research.
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August 24, 2010 12:54pm
Chthoniid

Umm, no Kris.

Setterfield screwed up by faking the 17th C starting points, failing to perform a proper statistical analysis, and assumed that a 17th Dutchman watching the moons of Jupiter would be operating at the same level of precision as 20th C modern astronomical instruments. In short, he has no scientific credibility. Just another lying creationist with no integrity left.

There is a very simple test we can use to examine Setterfield’s hypothesis. The constant speed of light is one of those minor, necessary things that hold the Universe together.

Push the speed of light to the levels you want, and every galaxy (including ours) would have flown apart almost instantly upon Creation. (Looks out window- nope- it’s still there).
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August 24, 2010 1:00pm
andrei

The speed of light by definition is 299,792,458 m/s and ergo it cannot change or have changed.

The meter is defined from the speed of light being the distance light in a vaccum travels in 1/299,792,458 s this or time itself could have changed I suppose but I don’t see where that gets anybody
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August 24, 2010 1:18pm
tom hunter

Perhaps some comedy show could do a rip-off of the Blue Pill/Red Pill scene from The Matrix – except with Kris K and Ali al-Sistani arguing over whether to swallow the Koran or the Bible, who gets to go first, and what the results will be. 🙂
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August 24, 2010 1:25pm
MikeNZ

Tom
The results will be anyone who sits on the fence will become a Dhimmi 🙂
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August 24, 2010 1:36pm
RRM

Just spotted this gem. I bet lefties feel pretty silly about voting for Obama now:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UOKTNFMgQ8&feature=related
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August 24, 2010 1:38pm
MikeNZ

INV2
It may have been yesterdays story but it is serious and of concern.
Don’t these people understand that when they behave in this way they bring the whole justice system into direpute?
That they’ve all got degrees just shows that they are educated fools.

One day someone’s going to top one of these buggers and the jury will refuse to convict them.
We need a recall facility on our judiciary, just like we need one on Parliament.
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August 24, 2010 1:43pm
Inventory2

Red card for Mallard this afternoon at 3.17pm. How long before he’s blogging about it at Red Alert?
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August 24, 2010 3:19pm
Inventory2

@ MikeNZ – cheers for that. You’re right; it IS a very serious issue. I have a teenaged daughter, and I don’t want her being raped or sodomised (apologies to any sensitive souls, but that’s what this guy did – to a 15yo girl). This is one judicial decision which should be appealed by the Crown; the community has the right to know who this rapist is, and where he is living, especially when even Justice Alan McKenzie acknowledges that he is at “medium to high risk of reoffending”.
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August 24, 2010 3:22pm
Rex Widerstrom

Grant Michael McKenna suggests:

This is what a campaign advert should look like! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUKHWnpsOL8

That’s genius… a political ad that you want to watch all the way through. I can’t help thinking that if someone created a similar one in NZ the target would lodge a barrage of complaints with the Advertising Standards Authority, the Broadcasting Standards Authority, the Human Rights Commission (They made me look old! That’s ageist!), the Race Realtions Conciliator (They made it in black and white! That’s racist!) and every other nosey quango they could think of.

Murray:

This is the name supression case that people should be getting pissed off about, not the bukllshit ones where we don’t get to know all the jucy details of what minor celeb has been accused of doing before the trial has even started.

Way to demonstrate some fucked up prioroities New Zealand

My thoughts exactly. The “justice” system is quite happy to have the lives and reputation of men accused of a sex crime destroyed by the media, bloggers et al well before their guilt or innocence is determined, but then protects those found guilty of such crimes… even whilst acknowledging they present a danger?!

Why? Because catching “crooks” (even innocent ones) looks good for the Commissioner, Power, Collins and their buddies and feeds the medias race-to-the-bottom ethos, so everyone’s happy (except the guy in the spotlight). But actually doing their job and protecting the community? Pfffftt… who cares?

Welcome to the parallel universe, where up is down, National are socialists (except on law and order), Labour are also socialists (except on law and order), black is white and anyone caught in the gaping maw of the “justice” system will find that’s one thing nowhere to be found.
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August 24, 2010 3:32pm
RightNow

QR Decoder (useful for decoding black and white images you might see around the blogs). http://zxing.org/w/decode.jspx
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August 24, 2010 4:14pm
RightNow

IV2 – he started blogging about it 20 mins before he even got carded. Seems he was counting his size 84 chickens before they hatched.
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August 24, 2010 4:16pm
RightNow

Philu? http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/4054635/Police-investigate-pharmacy-intruders-death
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August 24, 2010 4:39pm
RightNow

Big thumbs-up to you Mr Key:
http://blog.labour.org.nz/index.php/2010/08/24/let-your-fingers-do-the-walking/
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August 24, 2010 4:52pm
Rex Widerstrom

RightNow: If Key does phone Gillard, then hopefully it will be for the purposes of arranging a group discount at a bloody elocution school 😀
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August 24, 2010 5:09pm
thedavincimode

andrei (760) Says:

“The meter is defined from the speed of light being the distance light in a vaccum travels in 1/299,792,458 s this or time itself could have changed I suppose but I don’t see where that gets anybody”

I can and its not good. It means that the metre is now shorter than it was so speed limits have been reduced and road user charges are hiked. Is this legacy skullduggery from Klerk/Kullen?

Phew!! 5.52pm and no birth certificates, Islamic hordes, or momma grizzley bear cheer club. Just a bit of good old-fashioned wingnut creationism.

Rightnow –

Couldn’t have been. This happened at 5.30 am.
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August 24, 2010 6:02pm
krazykiwi

thedavincimode – re “Phew!! 5.52…”. You will set these challenges won’t you?!? I’m now trying to assemble a single comment to satisfy your controversy craving…
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August 24, 2010 6:07pm
thedavincimode

kk, don’t mention global warming just because I forgot it ..

… please
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August 24, 2010 6:30pm
krazykiwi

Unable to rise to the challenge inadvertently set by thedavincimode, here’s one instead for the science buffs:

The strange case of solar flares and radioactive elements

It’s a mystery that presented itself unexpectedly: The radioactive decay of some elements sitting quietly in laboratories on Earth seemed to be influenced by activities inside the sun, 93 million miles away.
:::
The story begins, in a sense, in classrooms around the world, where students are taught that the rate of decay of a specific radioactive material is a constant. This concept is relied upon, for example, when anthropologists use carbon-14 to date ancient artifacts and when doctors determine the proper dose of radioactivity to treat a cancer patient.
:::
On Dec 13, 2006, the sun itself provided a crucial clue, when a solar flare sent a stream of particles and radiation toward Earth. Purdue nuclear engineer Jere Jenkins, while measuring the decay rate of manganese-54, a short-lived isotope used in medical diagnostics, noticed that the rate dropped slightly during the flare, a decrease that started about a day and a half before the flare.

If this apparent relationship between flares and decay rates proves true, it could lead to a method of predicting solar flares prior to their occurrence, which could help prevent damage to satellites and electric grids, as well as save the lives of astronauts in space.

The decay-rate aberrations that Jenkins noticed occurred during the middle of the night in Indiana – meaning that something produced by the sun had traveled all the way through the Earth to reach Jenkins’ detectors. What could the flare send forth that could have such an effect?
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August 24, 2010 6:39pm
malcolm

Is there anyone here involved in retailing or distribution who can explain why NZ is so bloody expensive?

The disparity of NZ prices was brought home to me today. I want some hydraulic brakes (German made) for my mountain bike. They’re a special order at the bike shop so I looked for a NZ etailer. The only outfit I can find is the NZ distributer who also appears to sell direct to the public (a little odd, but whatever). He quotes me $280 from stock, which I assume is a retail price so as not to undercut/piss-off his retailers. Fair enough. But a quick look online and I can get the same item, air-frieghted from a UK etailer for $174 all up (still less than $200 if Customs catch me for GST). And the UK is hardly a mecca of cheap retailing.

What is the reason for markedly higher prices in NZ? Whenever I’ve discussed this with other lay people I get vaguely unconvincing answers like “it’s the shipping” or “higher taxes”.

Is it because NZ doesn’t have multiple distributors competing on the same product or because the distributors are too small to get a good price from the manufacturer? Or perhaps the volatility of the exchange rate, forcing them to peg the price high so they can don’t keep changing the price to their retailers?

Can anyone explain this conundrum?
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August 24, 2010 7:00pm
reid

“1/299,792,458 s”

So why not 1/299,792,459 s, davinci?

Thanks kk, a most interesting observation. I wonder if anything quantum is going on, you could test that, easily enough.

“Can anyone explain this conundrum?”

Volume, malcolm.
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August 24, 2010 7:01pm
malcolm

Ok. So you’re saying the NZ distributor can’t get as keen a price from the manufacturer as they would if they were supplying a larger market? Which is obviously the case, but does that account for most of the disparity?
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August 24, 2010 7:10pm
krazykiwi

James Cameron—King of Hypocrites, Written by Ann McElhinney, Sunday, 22 August 2010 17:49

Last March James Cameron sounded defiant. The Avatar director was determined to expose journalists, such as myself, who thought it was important to ask questions about climate change orthodoxy and the radical “solutions” being proposed. Cameron said was itching to debate the issue and show skeptical journalists and scientists that they were wrong.

“I want to call those deniers out into the street at high noon and shoot it out with those boneheads,” he said in an interview. Well, a few weeks ago Mr. Cameron seemed to honor his word.

His representatives contacted myself and two other well known skeptics, Marc Morano of the Climate Depot website and Andrew Breitbart, the new media entrepreneur. Mr. Cameron was attending the AREDAY environmental conference in Aspen Colorado 19-22 August. He wanted the conference to end with a debate on climate change. Cameron would be flanked with two scientists. It would be 90 minutes long. It would be streamed live on the internet.

They hoped the debate would attract a lot of media coverage. “We are delighted to have Fox News, Newsmax, The Washington Times and anyone else you’d like. The more the better,” one of James Cameron’s organizers said in an email.

It looked like James Cameron really was a man of his word who would get to take on the skeptics he felt were so endangering humanity. Everyone on our side agreed with their conditions. The debate was even listed on the AREDAY agenda.

But then as the debate approached James Cameron’s side started changing the rules. They wanted to change their team. We agreed.

They wanted to change the format to less of a debate—to “a roundtable”. We agreed.

Then they wanted to ban our cameras from the debate. We could have access to their footage. We agreed.

Bizarrely, for a brief while, the worlds most successful film maker suggested that no cameras should be allowed-that sound only should be recorded. We agreed

Then finally James Cameron, who so publicly announced that he “wanted to call those deniers out into the street at high noon and shoot it out,” decided to ban the media from the shoot out. He even wanted to ban the public. The debate/roundtable would only be open to those who attended the conference. No media would be allowed and there would be no streaming on the internet. No one would be allowed to record it in any way. We all agreed to that.

And then, yesterday, just one day before the debate, his representatives sent an email that Mr. “shoot it out ” Cameron no longer wanted to take part. The debate was cancelled.

James Cameron’s behavior raises some very important questions. Does he genuinely believe in man-made climate change? If he believes it is a danger to humanity surely he should be debating the issue every chance he gets? Or is it just a pose?

The man who called for an open and public debate at “high noon” suddenly doesn’t want his policies open to serious scrutiny. I was looking forward to debating with the film maker. I was looking forward to finding out where we agreed and disagreed and finding a way forward that would help the poorest people in the developing and developed world.

But that is not going to happen because somewhere along the way James Cameron, a great film maker, has moved from King of the World to being King of the Hypocrites.
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August 24, 2010 7:15pm
Rex Widerstrom

Volume my arse.

I was reading a restaurant review the other day marvelling at how you could buy a bottle of vintage Victorian plonk cheaper in an upmarket WA wine bar than in a restaurant in northern Victoria about 60 minutes drive from the vineyard. Larger market, less transport costs, higher price.

It’s about gouging the mug punters as much as you think you can squeeze out of them. Snobby Victorians think paying $110 for a bottle of wine gives them status, so they get charged that. The cashed up bogans of WA just want to drink plonk, so they were being charged $65.

Not that I’d ever charge a wealthy corporate multinational more for the same work than I would a struggling NGO. No sirree, not me *whistles*

The best thing we could learn from Asian and Arabic races is to treat a price tag as a starting point, not like it was handed down to Moses on stone tablets. Tell your NZ supplier you know full well he’s having a lend, malcolm. He can then decide to make a slightly less handsome profit off you, or get on his high horse in which case you win by getting it elsewhere.
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August 24, 2010 7:18pm
Viking2

Sainsbury excelled himself tonight. Best peice of TV investigation for a long time. Winz,Cyps and IRD all fucking stupid.
Well done and the Govt. ducking for cover everywhere.

Big problem totally ignored and no one responsible.
More please.
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August 24, 2010 7:21pm
malcolm

Tell your NZ supplier you know full well he’s having a lend, malcolm

Except I don’t know that he is. Reid seems to be suggesting that he simply can’t compete with UK distributors price because of his greatly reduced volume. I did email back and say that unfortunately I couldn’t buy from him as he was so much more than a UK etailer (including air-freight).
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August 24, 2010 7:27pm
reid

malcolm cause it’s a double-whammy, like when a political party loses a vote and it goes to its main opposition. It’s not a single hit, it’s a double. Same here.

The supplier has greater volume therefore leverage with input costs over his raw materials plus his transport to market overhead, which gives him more room to discount. On top of that he’s got real supplier competition which here, you don’t get so much. Here, you’d get how many high-end bike part manufacturers? As he competes I mean really competes with those guys. Meanwhile the retailer has the same arena in his area plus access to a whole lot of services we don’t get cheap over here, like many people who’ll help him decide where to build his next store. I’m guessing but I’d say here there’d be less than six firms with that kind of expertise, who specialised in it and did nothing but.

I know you know all this so sorry if I’ve misunderstood your q.
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August 24, 2010 7:28pm
malcolm

No, no, I don’t Reid and I appreciate your comments. I’ve long wondered about this having lived in NZ, the UK and the US.

Volume must obviously play a part but is there some point at which this aspect is saturated? I.e. can the UK distributor with 60 million potential customers still not get as good a price as the distributor in the US with 300 million? What about the Australian distributor with only 20 million?

There must be other aspects. When I lived in the UK there was a constant lament about things being cheaper in European countries.
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August 24, 2010 7:36pm
tom hunter

Volume does play a part – but your experience shows that it’s not freight and taxes either.

It’s probably also the factors you mentioned – making the prices higher to compensate for currency shifts (poor man’s hedging)

However, I reckon it’s also something to do with NZ’rs not being good bargainers and the following syndrome as explained by a 1990’s Russian joke:

First Russian: I love that tie your wearing!
Second Russian: Thanks. I paid $US 200 for it
First Russian: Ha. I paid $US400 for mine

In other words I think there is strange, unspoken bond between people who sell (high-priced stuff especially), and the people who buy, that lower prices would actually make them look bad. Can volume production differences between left and right-hand drives cars really explain why the Jeep Grand Cherokee’s in the US were costing $US25,000 at the same time as the ones here were costing $NZ 80,000? In these days of robotic factories I don’t think so!

Back in the mid 1990’s I returned from the US for a summer holiday and for a laugh I decided to track the prices of about 50 items in NZ compared to the US – adjusting only for the simple exchange rate. Only electricity and mutton were cheaper (probably because the latter is not highly regarded in the US (see Seinfeld. I’m not so sure about PPP either – my income at the time was 3 times greater than my comparable job in NZ.

Okay, it’s the US economy but what my Yank wife notices is that the “Sales” here are also a bloody joke: discounts of 20% are considered a big deal. In the US – 50-60% are not unknown as retailers ruthlessly push their inventory out to make way for the new stuff. Not here – unless it’s a liquidation sale!
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August 24, 2010 7:59pm
Hurf Durf

I know, I know, I shouldn’t be wasting my life reading leftoid blogs but I can’t help it. It reminds me of how much better I am than these fools.
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August 24, 2010 8:12pm
malcolm

In other words I think there is strange, unspoken bond between people who sell (high-priced stuff especially), and the people who buy, that lower prices would actually make them look bad. Can volume production differences between left and right-hand drives cars really explain why the Jeep Grand Cherokee’s in the US were costing $US25,000 at the same time as the ones here were costing $NZ 80,000? In these days of robotic factories I don’t think so!

It’s true that people judge quality partly by the price. Especially when there’s nothing else to go on (the rebate phenomena in the US works on this principle – which wifi router thingy is better: the $100 one with $50 rebate or the $50 one with no rebate – the $100 one of course). Of course that doesn’t explain the overall higher prices in NZ. I think the car example has something to do with “foreign = exotic = more expensive”. In Europe a Citroen is a cheap French car with funny suspension whereas in other places they’re considered somewhat up-market. In the US the Big Three are viewed as domestic with a track record of being sometimes shoddy and only good if you can get them heavily discounted whereas Japanese are considered somewhat better and worth paying a little more for.

Anyway, I just got a nice reply from the NZ distributor. He said the UK retail price of $174 is less than he can buy the item from the manufacturer. I think he should drive a harder bargain with them. He was also kind enough to explain the risks of Customs getting the item and the admin costs etc associated with levying the GST.

I guess the question is this. If this chap went back to the manufacturers and said “Your prices are too high, can I get these items at a price which lets me offer a similar price to the UK”. Would they say, “No, you are small and must pay the higher price and we have plenty of other people in NZ who would love to be our distributor so suck it up and represent us”? I’ll ask him.

Thanks for the replies.
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August 24, 2010 8:41pm
Southern Raider

Its been reported that several hundred women and several baby boys were gang raped by Rwandian militia over the last week with 20km of UN peace keepers. It is reported in the back section of newspapers.

The UN is still deciding whether to investigate or not.

Israelis kill half a dozen terrorists in self defence on an “aid flotilla” and there is worldwide outrage and a full on UN sponsored witch hunt.

Nice to now where the priorities of the world are and that for all the so called do gooding left wingers a nailing a dirty Jew to the wall is always more important than a few hundred blacks.
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August 24, 2010 8:51pm
JohnG

Malcolm @8.41 – have had similar experiences with printer consumables (cheaper to buy online from USA than locally). But the disparity exists locally too – I recently had some plumbing work done; in anticipation bought some copper fittings from Bunnings which were used but my plumber needed more so sent me to his wholesaler whose trade price was higher than Bunnings’ retail price. Volume again, or something else? I guess the moral of the story is: shop around.
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August 24, 2010 9:09pm
reid

Yes Sainsbury was unusually good tonight, Viking. Thank goodness for TVNZ On Demand. Thanks for that.

It was about the underbelly of the 5th Liarbore govt, whose poisonous vapours are forcing themselves to the surface.

Apparently, CYFS doesn’t give a fuck about who looks after a young person under 19 who’s left home. Apparently, they don’t do police checks on people who claim to being doing this and apparently, Bennet thinks that’s OK, since she was caught out on this only a month ago, and it’s happened again.

Meanwhile, the IRD doesn’t give a fuck either, and mindlessly pursues the parents for the child support payments with the full weight of their authoriti.

To his credit, Dunne answered reasonably and correctly it wasn’t IRD’s role to do police checks, which is true.

But it sure as hell is someone’s job, and if not CYFS, then who.
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August 24, 2010 9:09pm
thedavincimode

kk

The only plausible explanation for Cameron’s behaviour is an overwhelming attack of climate change.
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August 24, 2010 9:09pm
MikeNZ

Southern raider
that’s what progressives are – anti semetic.
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August 24, 2010 9:11pm
dad4justice

How long will the dangerously dysfunctional CYFS and child support racket keep destroying New Zealand children?
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August 24, 2010 9:13pm
thedavincimode

MikeallthewayUSAnutjobs

Help me out here. What is a “Progressive”? Am I right in assuming that a “progressive” isn’t someone stupid enough to think that Israel is the front line against the Islamic hordes that are going to sweep down here and chop Kris K’s noggin off last?
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August 24, 2010 9:17pm
reid

“How long will the dangerously dysfunctional CYFS and child support racket keep destroying New Zealand children?”

As long as the reef-fish continue insisting that a Liarbore govt is a good idea, d4j.
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August 24, 2010 9:18pm
dad4justice

Rather sad that this cess pit country couldn’t give a flying fuck about kiwi kids.
Just look at the suicide rate Minister of Underdevelopment!!
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August 24, 2010 9:20pm
thedavincimode

d4j

At least we care about high risk rapists and kiddie fiddlers who are released back into society in anonimity. Who says we don’t give the underdog a chance!
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August 24, 2010 9:23pm
dad4justice

Oh yes I knew that did you know that the sex offenders treatment unit at camp Rolly is only five years behind in waiting lists. Meanwhile Crusher says plod can drink piss all night. What a fucked country!
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August 24, 2010 9:25pm
thedavincimode

Good point. Now that the piss is basically on tap 24/7, police clubs have long outlived their usefullness (although they were much appreciated and mission critical in their time).
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August 24, 2010 9:29pm
reid

So SR at the risk of fearfully boring the rest of the punters, I’m happy to take you up re:

Israelis kill half a dozen terrorists in self defence on an “aid flotilla” and there is worldwide outrage and a full on UN sponsored witch hunt. Nice to know where the priorities of the world are and that for all the so called do gooding left wingers a nailing a dirty Jew to the wall is always more important than a few hundred blacks.

It’s not about nailing a dirty Jew to the wall, it’s about sunlight on a palpable wrong act. Just like sunlight will fall eventually on Rwanda, The Congo and countless other wars and you know, the same people who bring Israel to light also, eventually, bring people like Charles Taylor also to light. The point is, first world countries which Israel is, have different obligations. Any first world country like us, and Israel, expect different scrutiny, different standards, to be applied, because we know better, and we don’t run amok, or at least not often.

Israel it appears, did. That needs an answer, not because its Israel, but because military personnel from a first-world country killed civilians in a dubiously-justifiable interdiction operation. Now if it was say Iran, which had done exactly this to a convoy from Europe carrying aid to the Israelis, just where exactly would you sit?
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August 24, 2010 9:44pm
Southern Raider

So the terrorists knowing put themselves on the boats, armed themselves and had the explicit intent of attacking any Israelis that boarded the boats.

The Rwandian women and babies (some where as young as 1 month old) where in their village minding their own business with no intent to hurt anyone else.

Yet you somehow think there is no distinction? WTF are you smoking.
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August 24, 2010 10:18pm
reid

So the terrorists knowing put themselves on the boats, armed themselves and had the explicit intent of attacking any Israelis that boarded the boats.

SR the media hasn’t been full of “those killed were actually really terrorists” stories so I doubt its veracity: i.e. these were in fact genuine civilians, of a foreign country, I might add.

The Rwandian women and babies (some where as young as 1 month old) where in their village minding their own business with no intent to hurt anyone else. Yet you somehow think there is no distinction? WTF are you smoking.

Some extremely fine Columbian, but never you mind about that, SR. Look this is shocking, wrong, appalling and horrific. I just don’t see any comparison whatsoever between the dynamics in the way you deal with this situation vs the way you deal with the convoy.
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August 24, 2010 10:31pm
MikeNZ

Reid
you are so full of holes it’s frightening.
You apply a different level of scrutiny to the jews because they are jews.
Southern raider is correct thank God.
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August 25, 2010 7:54am
joana

How many millions of dollars has gone into Gaza? Does anyone actually know? How much did Arafat and his wife syphon off? It is the biggest aid sink hole in the world.
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August 25, 2010 9:01am
Pete George

“that’s what progressives are – anti semetic.”

All progressives? Even including progressive Jews? Or are all religious people automatically regressive?
If I’m not anti-Semitic does that mean I can’t be progressive?

Why the heck would a “progressive” (except the religious ones) who apparently thinks beliefs like Christianity and Judaism are archaic and backward looking, think any different about Islam?

MikeNZ – “you are so full of holes it’s frightening.”
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August 25, 2010 9:18am
reid

“You apply a different level of scrutiny to the jews because they are jews.”

No, I don’t, Mike. I apply to Israel exactly the same level of objectivity and observation I apply to all other nations.

If you ever want evidence to back up something I say that doesn’t gel with you, you’re always welcome to ask me.
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August 25, 2010 7:34pm

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