General Debate 16 August 2010

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dad4justice

Last night the lickspiitles from TVNZ news told me that we would be having a fine day today but my cattle are floating down the road. Rain baby rain. Dam loons.
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August 16, 2010 8:05am
Viking2

The Sun is out again. Great.
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August 16, 2010 8:13am
Viking2

Floating cattle, mmm easy way to export them. All you need is a floating pack of dogs and your water wings.
Enjoy your day but take your scuba gear for milking.
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August 16, 2010 8:14am
PaulP

I see Phil Goff was involve in the march supporting the law commissions liquor law recommendations and in particular raising the alcohol purchase age back to 20.

I can’t find it but can someone tell me whether he voted for or against lowering it from 20 to 18 (I assume he was in parliamen) and for or against raising it back to 20 not that long ago. Whan to know if he’s being a hypocrite or not.
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August 16, 2010 8:18am
Pete George

So what should be done about our huge alcohol problem? It has a major affect on crime, productivity, health. It is far more of a threat to NZ families than formalising a few homosexual relationships.

Parents horrified by binge-drinking generation
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August 16, 2010 8:27am
MikeNZ

Good point Paul
Where on parliaments website are the bills and who voted what?
Transparency Mr Speaker?
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August 16, 2010 8:27am
Guy Fawkes

Rounabouts on the ETA By-Pass at Taupo to be re-constructed at the cost of millions.

The Munchkin at the LTSA says it’s OK because money was saved in other places.

Why are these prats never accountable, or fined, or sacked without any pension?
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August 16, 2010 8:37am
hj

Meteria Turie (Green Party co leader):

h, I dont think your right. We have been exposing the fact that income inequality appears to be a key driver behind a huge number of social problems and that therefore reducing that gap or “economic egalitarianism” if you’d rather, is a critical economic goal. But that is not itself sufficient and the truth is class politics never has been sufficient. Decolonisation in a colonised country is also a priority, as is gender equity, et al. I have never understood why people will only advocate for one single solution for what are complex problems that one solution will never fix.
http://blog.greens.org.nz/2010/08/14/inequality-in-aotearoa-life-expectancy-again/#comment-144750

How to respond to anti-Maori discourse (Psychological Society):

We can decolonise Aotearoa to create social equity among the peoples of this nation. We need to acknowledge and enact the Treaty and the indigenous rights of tangata whenua as tools to redress the wrongs and as guides to the ways forward. Fairly resourced, Maori culture as the vehicle for Maori values, beliefs and aspirations will support its people as our society adapts to an ever changing global world.Maori leaders need to be recognised as change agents, innovators and visionaries for a just society. Maori people as community, iwi and nation are inspiring, leading and supporting the development of sustainable futures for all peoples of Aotearoa. Pakeha in particular can educate ourselves to understand, endorse and co-operate in the development of Maori aspirations and self-determination, to create a national identity based on the diverse strengths of all groups that make up our society.

Challenging and countering anti-Maori discourse: Practices for decolonisation
Keynote speech delivered by Dr Tim McCreanor to the New Zealand Psychological Society
Conference on 27 August 2009 in Palmerston North, on behalf of the Media and Health
Project
http://www.shore.ac.nz/projects/PsychologicalSocietyKeynote.pdf
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August 16, 2010 8:48am
stephen

Where on parliaments website are the bills and who voted what?
Transparency Mr Speaker?

http://theyworkforyou.co.nz/ is about the closest anyone’s got to that i think. Party votes but not individual ones, not that there are a lot of conscience votes these days.
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August 16, 2010 9:00am
Murray

Where the fuck is this “Aotearoa” of which you speak?

And why do we not worry about 2/3 of the treaty just the one item that should be entitled the gimmie gimmie gimmie article.
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August 16, 2010 9:01am
Pete George

Re the current poll “Do you think KiwiSaver should be made compulsory?”

For some? Phasing in making compulsory KiwiSaver, alongside phasing out or gradual delay and/or reduction of National Super?
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August 16, 2010 9:02am
krazykiwi

[Meteria Turie] “We have been exposing the fact that income inequality appears to be a key driver behind a huge number of social problems and that therefore reducing that gap or ‘economic egalitarianism’ if you’d rather, is a critical economic goal”.

Sure, it’s a goal if one wants to implement the lifestyle experienced in the Soviet Union, or the one still endured North Korea. Of course the Meteria Turie and her ilk imagine themselves in control of the Krelmin, or being worshiped like Dear Leader in Pyongyang, so her calls for economic egalitarianism are designed to appeal to the unthinking.
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August 16, 2010 9:02am
Jibbering Gibbon

“Meteria Turie (Green Party co leader):

h, I dont think your right. We have been exposing the fact that income inequality appears to be a key driver behind a huge number of social problems…”

etc etc

It’s interesting to imagine how an MP can entertain such ideas and be a productive part of establishment politics. Is she a talk but no wallk kind of gal or is she just waiting from a postion of comfort before becoming a terrorist? To my ear she sounds like a student, passionate about theory and unable to seperate her personal issues from the outside world. Common enough human flaw, no crime there, but a total contradiction of her existing position.
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August 16, 2010 9:03am
dad4justice

All the silly greens should hogtied with duct tape.
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August 16, 2010 9:10am
dime

murray – you stole my line! ive been saying for years theres an article 4 of the treay called gimmie gimmie gimmie!!! it even covers shit that hasnt been invented yet!
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August 16, 2010 9:19am
hj

State of the Pakeha Nation 2007 Catherine Delahunty

Mihi to tangata whenua and to elders of the Tangata Tiriti movement Personal introduction

My greetings to the poet doctor, the man of law and lore, the woman who has been a visionary teacher and is a Te Tiriti based gardener.

I am proud to stand here with these leaders of the best of Pakeha culture. They give me hope.

But the past and present state of the majority of the Pakeha nation is one of denial. Denial that we even exist as a nation, which uses democratheid (apartheid by majority) in maintaining control of Aotearoa. Democratheid is by no means a complete system or we would not be finding growing numbers of Pakeha supporting Te Tiriti events such as this one, but a powerful systemic injustice remains.
3 current political examples symbolise the underlying racism of the Pakeha nation

The current Prime Minister preferred to meet with a celebrity sheep named after a Hollywood cartoon than 25,000 or more tangata whenua

The High Schools Curriculum Review has been preparing to remove Te Tiriti from the syllabus

The New Zealand Govt representatives at the United Nations voted against the recognition of the collective rights of indigenous peoples Then there’s the flag on the Harbour Bridge debacle. How can we trust Transit to build bridges when they can’t even fly our two nations’ flags together?

This might sound unduly negative to a mainly Pakeha audience who are here because they are willing to focus on Te Tiriti, but it is my belief that wider changes will only come when we face the truth about ourselves as a culture. As film director Ken Loach recently said “If we can tell the truth about the past then maybe we can face the truth about the present”.

It is impossible to talk about the Pakeha Nation 2007 without facing our history. Our history is built on a deep contradiction and an ongoing commitment to state sanctioned violence, not by the people in this meeting, but by the powerbrokers and passive racists who maintain control. I am talking about a belief in equality for the assimilated and fairplay for everyone who acts like a Pakeha and I am generalising wildly to make a point, but living in Te Tairawhiti has only strengthened my view that we have a long way to go. 50% of the population is tangata whenua and the level of poverty and discrimination resembles the north. We have plenty of beaten women; gutted communities and whanau living in state housing that have never had proper electricity or water supplies. But lots of Pakeha are drinking wine and surfing, and they say so loudly without saying a word, would you please shut up about the connection between racism and poverty?

The Pakeha contradiction comes from our origins, so many of us being the descendants of families starved out of Ireland, burnt out of the Highlands of Scotland and made surplus people in the English class system. We, the children of cannon fodder and global capitalism can barely acknowledge the loss of bones and sacred places left on the other side of the world. The severing from ancestors and from the land has brought us material advantage and spiritual emptiness. The denial of this condition assists us in our denial of the tangata whenua indigenous reality and justifies our control of resources. But it has required a weird forgetfulness.

Thus when it comes to the redress of colonisation and facing up to the huge environmental crisis coming our way, Pakeha are not collectively well equipped. We are comfortably happy to be Kiwis, to co-opt everything from haka to ta moko, and to describe Kiwi culture as one of ANZACS, gumboots and “do it yourself”. Just don’t ask some of us the meaning of Po Kare Kare Ana or the indigenous name of that creek behind our suburb.

There are honourable exceptions to all these statements and they include Tauiwi including Pakeha individuals and groups who have dedicated themselves to change. These voices are growing and even if the media ignores them there are Pakeha who stand up and speak out positively on Te Tiriti in every community in Aotearoa. I met these people on the Foreshore hikoi as they came to join us all the way from Gisborne to Napier to Dannevirke and Waipukarau and Masterton. They are small in number but we all know that small numbers of committed people change the world. For the last 20 years I have been involved in a number of land struggles in defense of the environment and against foreign control. The most powerful metaphor of colonisation to me is to do with a deeply glamorous topic, sewage. It is remarkable how many public toilets and landfills have been built on waahi tapu and food gathering areas. It’s almost as if the city fathers (and I use the word advisedly) wanted to send a message that “we shit on your culture”.

All over the country from the bay opposite Te Tii marae at Waitangi, to the kaimoana beds at Turanga nui a Kiwa, from the sewage ponds at Whaingaroa to the pipi of Whangamata, from Moerewa waterfalls to Whangarei harbour, human waste is being dumped on traditional food sources.

In the numerous local campaigns to clean up this habit the enduring leadership has come from tangata whenua and those environmentalists willing to be aligned with them. But Pakeha environmentalists often struggle with a very basic issue, for example, Tikapa Moana, the Hauraki Gulf, is it worth protecting as a Marine Park for recreation and biodiversity, or as a pataka kai, a storehouse of food and mana? If we acknowledge the pataka kai we have to acknowledge the rangatiratanga and kaitiakitanga of Hauraki and share power. We have to recognise that not all food comes from the supermarket and that Marine Parks can exclude the food gatherers and breach their traditional rights. This is not to say we don’t need to protect biodiversity, we must, but who decides the means?

When it comes to foreign control and subdivision of the coast nothing is sacred. Even that that supposedly holy “birth of a nation site” Te Kuri o Paoa (Young Nicks Head) was abandoned by the local Pakeha historians enamoured of Captain Cook. Very few stood alongside Ngai Tamanuhiri on that maunga, because a New York stockbroker has every right to buy a historic site and decide whether the manawhenua can get to their fishing grounds.

Today at Mahia some Rongomawahine are protesting against subdivision of their coast and at the roads through their urupa. But again Pakeha who love the outdoors and say they are passionate about Mahia Peninsula are very thin on the ground. What is the meaning of our professed love of this country and if we want to be here, why can’t we support the manawhenua in their acts of love? Some Pakeha do give meaning to this love when they fight alongside tangata whenua to protect Ngunguru Sandspit or hold hands with them on the foreshore at Ahipara.

In 2005 some of us toured the country with the “Sawmill Workers Against Poisons” and the Vietnam Veterans: a motley crew of environmentalists, young tangata whenua activists and people who had been poisoned by dioxin. We traveled together with respect for the leadership of the tangata whenua and with awareness of Te Tiriti as our driving force. For me it was a model of collaborative supportive political action that enhanced the dignity of both cultures. Those people still inspire me. But in 2007 we still cannot look to the majority of Pakeha to fight the ongoing corporate globalisation of Aotearoa, not if it means publicly standing alongside Maori. Our roots are still too deeply embedded in the privileges of colonisation. It is like a tapeworm in our guts, which causes us to hunger for capitalist consumption and dominance even though it’s killing the planet, our well being and our humanity. The corporations are keen that the next generation of tangata whenua swallows the tapeworm, then no one will be shamed by tangata whenua collectivism, Maori will be a successful and marketable global brand, not a threat to globalisation’s damaging individualism

It is not rocket science that Pakeha may be a minority by the late 21st century. It is to be hoped that tangata whenua will be the largest cultural grouping in their own country again. However all the demographic changes will be a change for the worst if Pakeha cannot come to terms with being a minority culture. Our attachment to Westminster democracy has been based on our majority status. Will we find to our horror that minorities in such a system are overruled and undermined? Will we react by supporting more truly equitable and culturally diverse methods of decisionmaking, based upon Te Tiriti, or will we build a fortress, clinging to wealth and power behind barbed wire and guard dogs? Jane Kelsey stood at Waitangi last year and said that Pakeha were not ready for constitutional change and she’s right. All it would take would be few more Orewa speeches written for either major political party by genocidal spindoctors, and Te Tiriti would be legally reduced to an anachronism, a so called nullity yet again. So we take the slow road and our hope is in young people, the next generation of Tangata Tiriti who have the courage to face our history and our present. Our hope is in the role models, the Tangata Tiriti all over this country who are living Te Tiriti the best they can, the elders we rely on as all cultures rely on their elders. Our hope is also in the awe inspiring manaaki that tangata whenua continue to extend to us, but for just how long?

It is our job as Pakeha Te Tiriti activists to kill the tapeworm in the guts of our culture. We have to awaken in Tauiwi and especially Pakeha the recognition of the common ground that is staring us in the face. The effects of greed and the gross concentrations of wealth threaten the survival of humans on the planet as the environment collapses around us. It’s not an accident or a matter of “the environment”in isolation; it’s grounded in our financial systems. Pakeha have a choice, obsess about getting on the Rich List or take the opportunity to stand behind the indigenous protectors of planet earth.

Pakeha culture has the potential to recover from our shared amnesia and remember who we are, it is happening in many corners, in the shared gardens, the books being written, the films being made, and truths being told by Pakeha who carry respect for Te Tiriti in their hearts. In social change education work we are encouraged by the numbers of Pakeha community workers who are questioning their own practices and privileges and who are committed to supporting haputanga at a community level. Sure the institutions and the Government are way behind, but as always true leadership comes not from the celebrity sheep fanciers, but from people like Network Waitangi Whangarei hosting this event and being visible at Waitangi year after year, like the Sisters of St Joseph in Wanganui returning Maori land to its owners, like the Treaty Resource Centre in Manukau City, the Peace Movement Aotearoa., the Anti Racism Crew, to name a few. We need to acknowledge the many, mainly Pakeha women who have given utter commitment to Te Tiriti education across the board in Aotearoa. I have to acknowledge the radical church people, who stood at the Foreshore and Seabed Select Committee and were mocked for their support for tangata whenua customary rights. These people are in this work for life and not for status or reward. We should all celebrate the completion of the Treaty information kit for migrants which came from Pakeha community educators; it’s as useful to us 5th generation migrants as to those who arrived this week,

If these individuals and groups can grasp the obligations of the Te Tiriti then so too can their cousins and children. It won’t be achieved by beating our own over the head with the stick of righteousness, (a method I have personally attempted many times), but by walking with them to that place where our story started as migrants and settlers who are here by rights of Te Tiriti not by dominance and denial.

There is hope in Charmaine’s garden and all the teachers she has inspired, in Glenn’s poetry and in David’s commitment to good law. There is even hope in the sewage campaign, where slowly but surely Pakeha are refusing to flush and forget. We who have woken up have to show our own people that Pakeha have something huge to gain from letting go control, that is to be fully human, culturally and collectively, Te Tiriti as it ever was, is our opportunity. .
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August 16, 2010 9:26am
Chuck Bird

PaulP, Goff voted NO when it came to raising the drinking age to 20. I do not know how he voted in 1999 when it was lower to 18.

I would be interested in Goff’s reason for his change of mind.
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August 16, 2010 9:27am
Inventory2

@ Chuck – coincidence? Convenience? Political expediency?

Your guess is as good as mine. It’s much the same as his campaign to Axe the Tax, when he plans to do no such thing.
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August 16, 2010 9:43am
Grant Michael McKenna

http://www.news.com.au/travel/news/topless-sunbather-accused-of-sensuously-rubbing-in-sun-cream/story-e6frfq80-1225904452174#ixzz0wPvN9HtS

The complainant’s two sons were uncomfortable- maybe because mum was with them?
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August 16, 2010 9:51am
Murray

What the hell is this massive cut and paste BS. Get your own site.
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August 16, 2010 9:51am
hj

Sorry about the Delahunty speech but it’s got to be a classic!
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August 16, 2010 9:51am
Don the Kiwi

Who gives a shit what that stupid marxist bitch Catherine Delahunty thinks or says?
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August 16, 2010 9:54am
Don the Kiwi

Okay hj.

You should have warned us.
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August 16, 2010 9:56am
Murray

Or spared us. Post a smaple and link.

At least link whoring saves space.
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August 16, 2010 10:11am
Swiftman the infidel

Get screwed murray
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August 16, 2010 10:15am
Don the Kiwi

Watch out Murray.

You’ve upset Swiftman the in fiddler.
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August 16, 2010 10:32am
Boloni

Once again there is no drinking age except at licenced premises,and as most problem drinking does not occur there changing the age is a complete waste of time.
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August 16, 2010 10:47am
Viking2

Apparently one chapter of the Black Power have managed to claim their assets under the TOW.
Assets worth $70,000 missing
By ANDREA VANCE
Last updated 05:00 16/08/2010

Almost $70,000 of Whitireia student association assets – including almost $30,000 of computer equipment – are missing, according to financial statements.

Police are investigating after an audit confirmed money was drained from Whitireia Polytechnic independent student association funds during 2009.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/4026611/Assets-worth-70-000-missing
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August 16, 2010 12:56pm
roger rabbit

We can decolonise Aotearoa???????
Wheres Aotearoa, is it somewhere near Funganui, is it anywhere near Wanganui, that city in NEW ZEALAND, our homeland
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August 16, 2010 12:56pm
Murray

Oh dear I’ve upset swift… watch closely while I’ve give the sligtest shit.
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August 16, 2010 1:03pm
krazykiwi

Pacific Blue pulling out of NZ domestic routes. AirNZ and JetStar must be celebrating today. And I will need to increase my travel budget.
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August 16, 2010 1:46pm
MikeNZ

HJ

How can we trust Transit to build bridges when they can’t even fly our two nations’ flags together?

She doesn’t get it, there is one nation. New Zealand with MANY peoples.
We are a multicultural nation.
Get with the program, One nation, One passport, One citizenship.
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August 16, 2010 1:51pm
Banana Llama

Someone might want to ask Catherine Delahunty who will be subsidizing Maori birthrates when Europeans are a minority, maybe our Asian Majority?
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August 16, 2010 2:03pm
Swiftman the infidel

Just ignore Murray. He is obviously a homosexual.
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August 16, 2010 2:26pm
Yvette

Issued by MetService 2:28pm 16 August 2010
Wednesday
Cold southerlies spread over the hole of the Country with showers. Snow may affect the Desert Road at night and is expected on many South Island hills.
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August 16, 2010 3:00pm
Manolo

Another one of the infamous Key’s U-turns in the making?
http://msn.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10666396&ref=rss
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August 16, 2010 4:47pm
Yvette

“Mr Goff also called on the Government to support Labour MP Darren Hughes’ bill to lower the drink-drive level from 0.8 grams of alcohol per 100 millilitres of blood to 0.6.” – stuff

0.6 – not 0.5? – a typo or just a little more confusion?
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August 16, 2010 5:28pm
Tauhei Notts

Aussie Election
The Waikato Times today reports that Abbott might get up to win.
So I looked at Betfair to see what the people who back their judgment with hard earned dollars had to say.
They had the red head at $1.36 and the budgie smuggler, an outsider, at $3.70.
Is there some law that does not allow newspapers to make such pertinent information available to their readers?
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August 16, 2010 6:04pm
roger rabbit

Silly old Mr Roger McClay, who has done some good in his life , has discovered the harse facts, that his feeding trough is only so big and double dipping from two sources to get richer,is a BIG NO NO,reputation distroyed and now only thought of as another troughing ex national party mp.
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August 16, 2010 6:43pm
Hurf Durf

Gween Party: party of treason, appeasement and now genocide. Wonderful people.
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August 16, 2010 7:32pm

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