General Debate 6 July 2010

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Yvette

Way to start the day. cobber
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11NtJ9JDeE8
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July 6, 2010 8:03am
Peter

Second!
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July 6, 2010 8:28am
hj

The IPCC gets and audit:
http://www.economist.com/blogs/newsbook/2010/07/bias_and_ipcc_report&fsrc=nwl
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July 6, 2010 8:28am
ciaron

anyone else impressed with the drug sub?
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July 6, 2010 8:42am
bhudson

Bethune confidant he will be home soon:

“Bethune is due to be sentenced in Tokyo tomorrow for his high seas protest against Japan’s whale cull, and Ms Bethune said he was “95 per cent sure” he would get a suspended sentence. “He should be on a plane out of there in the next few days.” ”

Quickly, change the locks on the doors. Let his activist buddies find a home somewhere else.

In NZ we (should) respect the rule of law. Bethune clearly can’t. With any real luck he’ll get 2 years in a Japanese prison
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July 6, 2010 8:53am
Whafe

What were the thoughts of those who saw the media articles on the Supermarkets (Progressive / Foodstuffs) on Closeup and Campbell Live last night?
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July 6, 2010 8:55am
Inventory2

@ bhudson – his estranged wife says he hasn’t done anything wrong, which makes one wonder why he is in jail and before the Courts at all!

http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2010/07/hes-done-nothing-wrong.html
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July 6, 2010 8:59am
bhudson

I2,

Gosh. Clearly its all a misunderstanding. Do they actually expect people to swallow that sort of nonsense? (Umm. Yes. Actually they do don’t they?)

Thankfully the Japanese courts are likely to have a little more backbone than ours.

It will be amusing to see all the greenies and other activists wailing and gnashing their teeth when he gets the jail time he so richly deserves.
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July 6, 2010 9:06am
david

An interesting (and very Australian) take on Key’s lack of enthusiasm for Rudd’s ANZAC Force proposal in Afghanistan.

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/nz-puts-nation-first-war-second-20100705-zxiq.html

By conflating the rejection of the rudd attempt to put some Kiwis in body bags and give Rudd the opportunity to say that it is not just an Australian problem, with Helen Clark and Margaret Wilson’s actions when they ” … effectively forced then New Zealand Labour prime minister David Lange to junk ANZUS over the issue of US naval visits … ” the author raises again the oft trotted out image of NZ as not pulling its weight on a regional basis.

How many requests should we accede to? Especially when they relate to the same conflict – one in which we are already committed?
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July 6, 2010 9:08am
mjwilknz

@Whafe, I think the stories about supermarket prices are a load of crap. If you want to find that the supermarkets aren’t paying enough for food relative to prices charged to consumers, you have to decide that the supermarkets aren’t behaving competitively. Looking at the tooth and nail fights between Progressive and Foodstuffs, the starting presumption must be they compete with one another, aggressively.

Of course, evidence might be introduced to the contrary, but it needs to be before I believe we should start worrying about food producers. Otherwise they just look like they’re whining.
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July 6, 2010 9:12am
david

Whafe @8:55
Shallow and meaningless on both channels. Trotted out the same bullshit, no-one called Kedgely out for what she and her “survey” are – unsupported and biased. No analysis of the costs of staffing, transport, storage (especially cold storage which is expensive), wastage, packaging etc.

The real issue was neither identified nor addressed and left me no better informed at the end than I was before their enthusiastic ramblings and faux drama commenced.

How was it for you?
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July 6, 2010 9:12am
voice of reason

“Whafe (526) Says:
July 6th, 2010 at 8:55 am
What were the thoughts of those who saw the media articles on the Supermarkets (Progressive / Foodstuffs) on Closeup and Campbell Live last night?”

Hysterical nonesense, Kedgley was talking about MARKUP % the supermarket guys were talking MARGIN % Sainsbury is too thick to understand the difference.
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July 6, 2010 9:18am
Colonel Masters

Re the supermarkets: that’s business. If the growers feel they aren’t getting enough for their product, they can sell it to somebody who is prepared to pay more. What’s that? There isn’t anybody. Hmmm, guess the price must be right then.

As we all learned in Econ 101, a good is worth what somebody is prepared to pay for it.

Also, presumably, if the supermarkets were to pay the growers more, then the end price for the consumer would also go up…? Thanks Sue, sounds like a good way to ensure healthy eating.
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July 6, 2010 9:26am
Inventory2

It’s a shame that Foodstuffs didn’t put Robin Brooke up as their representative on Sainsbury’s programme. Now that WOULD have been great viewing!!
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July 6, 2010 9:27am
Pete George

A lot of supermarket fruit is overpriced and under ripe. For example, I hardly buy kiwifruit any more because I don’t like sour rocks. And it’s hard to get properly ripened tomatoes (ie with some taste).

Farmers markets or roadside stalls – as long as you are selective – are better value and better quality. It’s a bugger that we can’t get good kiwifruit and citrus down here.

Hmmm, guess the price must be right then.

No, with two major players calling the shots it’s very difficult for small growers to get a reasonable market and consumers get a lot of substandard produce.
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July 6, 2010 9:27am
mattyroo

david, That article by Gerard Henderson in the SMH sums up my thoughts re. our whole defence force much more eloquently than I ever could.

Just goes to show we have a spineless prime minister, who is only worried about his poll ratings. Clark may have been a vindictive b**ch, but you always knew where you, and the country, stood under her.
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July 6, 2010 9:31am
david

So you would have supported Key giving KRudd some of our troops to play with?
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July 6, 2010 9:34am
david

I was actually intrigued that it was such a public thing. You would have thought a sensible approach would have been to float the suggestion about a combined force, reached some sort of agreement and then announced it. Then if it didn’t fly it gets quietly dropped and you get on with things.
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July 6, 2010 9:36am
mjwilknz

@Pete George, supermarkets are about getting food in the one place to be convenient for consumers. Stalls are about consumers coming to them. These are two different things. If you have the time to drive around roadside stalls getting all your produce then that’s good for you; however, I don’t have time. I need supermarkets to go the extra distance and bring the food to me; if it loses quality slightly and slightly increases in price, so be it!
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July 6, 2010 9:50am
mattyroo

He wouldn’t have been giving Kevin07 “some of our troops to play with.”

Did you read the article or just link to it? Our troops would’ve been going to Afghanistan to assist (the Aussies) in training the Afghan National Army. And until the ANA is better trained, there is no hope for that country, or realistically, our other troops leaving having COMPLETED their work.

As Henderson pointed out, the current Afghani administration certainly leaves a lot to be desired, but as with most things in this world, we have to be pragmatic and make the best of what we have. There are pretty much no other viable solutions for a functioning Afghani administration currently.

Or, would you prefer the Greens approach, all foreign troops to depart Afghanistan forthwith and let the Afghanis get on with nation building themselves?
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July 6, 2010 9:52am
jcuknz

“But won’t extending unemployment benefits worsen the budget deficit? Yes, slightly — but as I and others have been arguing at length, penny-pinching in the midst of a severely depressed economy is no way to deal with our long-run budget problems. And penny-pinching at the expense of the unemployed is cruel as well as misguided.” Paul Krugman NYT today
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July 6, 2010 9:57am
Pete George

if it loses quality slightly and slightly increases in price, so be it!

The popularity of Farmer’s Markets (the one here is crowded every Saturday) shows that some aren’t satisfied with supermarket produce.

Many people aren’t aware of what properly ripened fruit is like so they are happy to take whatever is offered.

Getting decent fruit can also be a problem from direct suppliers, it’s convenient for them to pick into large bins but it means they have to pick before the produce is mature. I commented at one stall recently that some fruit wasn’t ripe and was told just to keep it for a few days and it would “ripen”. Not for me.
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July 6, 2010 10:00am
bhudson

@jcuknz

The real penny pinching is that done by people who view the benefits as a caeer option.

I would agree in principle that some of the money saved by flushing out and removing benefits from the bludgers could be used to increase assistance to those in genuine need.

Surely that would be an acceptable approach for all reasonable minded people?
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July 6, 2010 10:10am
david

@Mattyroo
Ouch – David cf Greens = below the belt

NZSAS has as one of its primary objectives to be a trainer of locals. We are already doing it having responded to a request from US. Oz has also responded to a request from US. What I was saying is that Rudd’s proposal, while it may have longer and deeper ramifications than Afghanistan, represents a duplication on our part. Which segment of our current 600+ personel serving offshore would you propose to raid in order to supply this ANZAC group which would inevitably have been under Australian command?

As it turned out, Gillard won’t have the slightest interest in adventures such as this as she will focus much closer to home so it may well have been an idea stillborn in the mind of an ego-maniac who saw himself as important on the world stage. In that case Key actually pre-empted the inevitable.
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July 6, 2010 10:12am
mjwilknz

@Pete George, we live in a capitalist society! Choice is what it provides. If people want to take the time to go to farmers’ markets then we should let them. However, do they really need to complain to the high heavens about supermarkets, which so many others (such as me) are quite happy with?
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July 6, 2010 10:29am
Redbaiter

I usually hate commercials pretty intensely but this one is well worth the watch-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ezk0e1VL80o

Two things America got right-

Cars and Freedom
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July 6, 2010 10:32am
mjwilknz

@Redbaiter, loved the ad. A pity the US Government took away US taxpayers’ freedom by bailing out Chrysler!
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July 6, 2010 10:45am
Redbaiter

“A pity the US Government took away US taxpayers’ freedom by bailing out Chrysler!”

Yeah, union government cronyism and soviet style nationalisation all in one. Its what happens when ignorant uneducated fuckwits are provided with the benefit of democracy. They use it to vote themselves into slavery.

I was just reading where 40% of young Americans do not know who their country fought against in the War of Independence.

And people still cheer for leftist outcomes in education.
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July 6, 2010 10:52am
s.russell

The Economist has an interesting chart of the salaries received by different countries’ leaders:
http://www.economist.com/node/16525240?story_id=16525240&source=features_box4
Mr Key gets 10x NZ’s GDP per capita. The PM of Kenya gest 240x, but the PM of India less than 2x
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July 6, 2010 10:59am
kaya

Whafe – I haven’t bought fruit or veg (or meat) from any of the big supermarkets for around 5 or 6 years. Their emphasis is presentation. (it all looks purty but usually tastes shite). Taste and quality are a long way down the list, also fruit and veg prices are almost always much higher than at speciality fruit and veg shops. We buy the specials which are usually very ripe and use the fruit in the juicer and the veg in cooking stews and casseroles.

Roadside stalls in the Bay of Plenty are great, we love buying from there when we are down that way visiting relatives. Farmers Markets are great too.
As someone said above, supermarkets are convenient which is why most people use them. It’s nice to have the choice.
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July 6, 2010 11:00am
Redbaiter

Another great outcome the socialists can congratulate themselves on.

Hat tip Lindsay Mitchell

http://lindsaymitchell.blogspot.com/
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July 6, 2010 11:02am
Pete George

However, do they really need to complain to the high heavens about supermarkets

There’s also nothing wrong with customers trying to put pressure on supermarkets to do better. They will respond if enough pressure is perceived (but mostly through the sales analysis).

I buy some produce at supermarkets, but I would but quite a bit more (or not do more to grow my own) if they provided better quality (price is not so important to me).
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July 6, 2010 11:03am
mjwilknz

@Pete George, I agree there is nothing wrong with customer pressure. However, what’s being discussed, a supermarket code of conduct, won’t actually come from customers, but from taxpayers! Food producers just want to have some taxpayers dollars spent to protect them from customers.

If supermarkets don’t pay enough for produce, it’s because consumers don’t value that produce enough. Food producers are just trying to protect themselves from the customer pressure to which you refer.

Can I assume you’re actually not a fan of a taxpayer funded code of conduct?
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July 6, 2010 11:13am
side show bob

jucknz, you would love the chief air head from California, Nancy Pelosi, she made a speech the other day in which she stated welfare was great for stimulating the economy. Given Nancy’s rationale Gods own should be rolling in clover. It’s probably easier to slowlyl pull the plug on welfare payments then wait for the world wide recession and be left with no choice, it will happen, we can’t live in Disneyland forever.
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July 6, 2010 11:26am
Sonny Blount

Did anybody see this fruitbat perform:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/3886882/Google-Earth-making-world-a-target

Were there alternative views presented and was it privately funded?
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July 6, 2010 11:33am
kaya

mjwilknz – the last thing we need is another taxpayer funded anything, just give me choice! Unlike the bizarre situation where you can’t buy locally caught fish in a bar or restaurant on Gt Barrier Island, it has to come from Auckland where it has been processed in an “approved” manner. What a joke, eating frozen fish on one of the premium fishing spots in the country. Totally insane. Totally ignored too thankfully, as all stupid regulations should be.
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July 6, 2010 11:43am
mjwilknz

Kaya, I do not wish for taxpayer money to be spent on this. As I described in my very first message on here, I see it as wasteful. I was asking Pete George if, because a taxpayer-funded code of conduct represents taxpayer pressure rather than customer pressure, he thought it actually was a bad thing. As yet, I haven’t had a reply.

With the fresh fish on Great Barrier thing, that’s a tough one to argue. Because it’s so hard to own a fish that has yet to be caught, fisheries should be carefully managed (so as to reduce what economists call the tragedy of the commons). It might be a little unavoidable that that means you can’t easily buy fresh fish on Great Barrier.

In general, though, I no fan of inappropriate rules. NZ is one of the world’s least corrupt countries. Keeping corruption low is not something that’s helped by having ineffective rules about things. Keeping rules effective is one of the great games of politics, one that provokes, no requires, endless arguments about stuff. That’s what kind of makes it fun, eh? 🙂
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July 6, 2010 2:44pm
Manolo

Are Whites starting to desert the Messiah?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/07/04/AR2010070403988.html
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July 6, 2010 3:03pm
big bruv

Tough luck for those who loose their jobs but this news is to be applauded.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/3889555/TVNZ-faces-another-round-of-job-cuts

One can only hope that the government are preparing TVNZ for sale.
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July 6, 2010 3:54pm
Redbaiter

“Tough luck for those who loose their jobs but this news is to be applauded.”

It should be management whose political based programming choices prevent the station from meeting market demand who get the arse.
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July 6, 2010 4:05pm
Manolo

More craziness from the current U.S. administration: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/07/05/nasa-chief-frontier-better-relations-muslims/

How low can you go? As of late, the only scientific contribution Muslims have made to science, is to strap explosives to their children and test them.
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July 6, 2010 4:24pm
Viking2

IN PURSUIT OF THE NATIONAL INTEREST
Over the last few years the information revolution has transformed the way we communicate and access knowledge. The New Zealand Centre for Political Research is a product of this. Every week New Zealand’s largest weekly electronic newsletter – the NZCPR Weekly – is delivered directly into your home and office. If you like what you read, you can forward it on to people around the country and the world. Our http://www.nzcpr.com website, enables you to share your opinion, read our commentaries, use our research, or, through our new petition facility, add your voice to thousands of others who are demanding change.

This revolution has created an explosion in the number of on-line news outlets, blogs and information websites that are available to the browsing public. While some are run part-time by enthusiasts, others are fulltime operations facing the very real challenge of developing business models that can provide sufficient financial returns.

Just last week The Times newspaper has admitted defeat by radically changing its free Times-On-Line format to subscriber only. It explained that on-line advertising just doesn’t pay and it is hoping that subscriber-only content will. In making this change, the Times follows the lead of other publications including the Wall Street Journal, the Financial Times, and our own New Zealand Business Review – although most other news sites continue to offer free as well as premium content.

For five years now, the NZCPR has been able to operate on a free content model because enough of our readers have believed that our contribution to public affairs and the democratic process is worth supporting. The problem is that since the recession things have become so tough that I worry that I may be forced to review the model. However, I strongly believe that the best antidote to poor government decision-making is an informed public.

These newsletters often focus on public policies that are being pushed by governments, but that no longer appear consistent with the pursuit of the national interest. A case in point is the National Party’s foolish decision to press ahead with the next phase of the emissions trading scheme (ETS) even though it was specifically designed to align with Australia’s ETS, which has been suspended until 2013! Due to overwhelming public demand I have now re-opened our petition to suspend the ETS. As you know a letter on behalf of

4,400 petitioners, was sent to the Prime Minister just before the budget requesting that he suspend the ETS. Since he didn’t listen, we are renewing our efforts by asking anyone who believes the country can’t afford this new tax to sign the ETS petition so we can really show the Prime Minister that he has made the wrong call.

http://www.nzcpr.com/Admin/ETS%20ad.jpg

Many of you have asked what is driving the Prime Minister’s commitment to the ETS, given his more pragmatic approach to many other policy matters. I believe he explained it in an interview with Leighton Smith on Newstalk ZB back in February when he stated: “Those that wanted a focus on climate change and nothing else, such as Greenpeace, were winning public opinion. And there was a big push in that direction. And we were out of sync with them.”

In other words, the Prime Minister is desperate to retain his popularity with celebrity environmentalists like Lucy Lawless – who are a key part of the women’s demographic that the National Party is actively striving to retain. That demographic is more important to him than the interests of struggling families and businesses. So, if you haven’t signed the petition, please do so by clicking this ETS Petition icon. If you know others who believe National has done the wrong thing by extending the ETS, please ask them to sign too. Further, please keep your eyes peeled for examples of cost-price rises, business relocations, or other adverse impacts of the ETS, and visit the petition website to share those with us too.

Another public policy issue that the government is pushing that puts the rights of a small racial minority ahead of the majority public interest is their proposals for the privatisation of the foreshore and seabed. This week’s NZCPR Guest Commentator, Dr Roger Bowden, a Visiting Research Fellow at Ulm University in Germany and the former Professor of Economics and Finance at Victoria University, shares this concern – not only about the direction that National is taking, but at the underhand way that they are forcing through major constitutional change:

“Just in case you hadn’t heard, it’s now official; under the coalition Government’s proposed Foreshore and Seabed Act Mark II, customary title is recognised as ownership. This is a change of constitutional character. It advances by Crown proclamation the economic interests of one specific group of New Zealanders at the expense of the remainder. Constitutional changes, official or unofficial, are not to be taken lightly. To be sure, the present government has muddled enough on other fronts, notably the emissions trading scheme, a good enough idea in principle but an operational disaster in practice. The difference is that the ETS can be suspended with a stroke of the pen by whatever government succeeds the present one. It does not take too much political or behavioural insight to realise that Foreshore and Seabed Mark II will be irreversible. That is why it is constitutional in character. To be sure, so was the Seabed and Foreshore Mark I from the previous Labour government. But that simply recognised a long standing convention with well established legal precedent.

“For make no mistake, Mark II creates a valuable property right. It will allow qualifying iwi or hapu to build marinas, fish and mussel farms, or wave platforms for generating electricity, in practice with little control or recourse on the part of local authorities. Iwi business interests will be able to mine iron sands, coltan, or whatever else is revealed in the fullness of time. And it will endow iwi or hapu with a moral case for access fees or cultural deprival compensation for the nationalised minerals (gold, silver, uranium, and above all, oil in prospective provinces like the East Cape). If that doesn’t work, then under the proposed power of veto, they can hold to effective ransom any party that does want to do such things. Money for jam. Or as an economist might put it, deadweight economic rent.” To read Roger’s full article, The foreshore smell has become deafening, please click the sidebar link>>>.

The National Party is planning to deliver effective sovereignty of New Zealand’s foreshore and seabed – including our territorial sea out to the 12 mile limit – to Maori. While they have stated that only 10 percent of the coastline – 2,000 km – is expected to be privatised to Maori at this stage, as we all know, once this process starts, Maori sovereignty activists will not be satisfied until the 10 percent becomes 100 percent. That National is to take the country down this path without public mandate demonstrates an astonishing arrogance given that only a few short years ago they promised voters an end to race-based laws. In his review document the Attorney General stated that the rights of all New Zealanders would be taken into account when considering the future of the foreshore and seabed, including recreational and conservation interest, business and development interests, and local government – as well Maori. However, the only group to have been consulted is Maori – and all of the protestations by self-interested Maori that National has not gone far enough on the deal, has undoubtedly been orchestrated to make the public think that the new bill will be reasonable. Unfortunately, the reality is very different from the spin.

Just as the National Party acted without a mandate when it signed the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, now it appears they are pushing New Zealand further down the indigenous rights path – towards Article 26 in fact. Article 26 of the Declaration states, “Indigenous peoples have the right to the lands, territories and resources which they have traditionally owned, occupied or otherwise used or acquired”.[1] If the government’s foreshore and seabed plan succeeds and Maori are given control over our territorial sea and all of the resources within the foreshore and seabed, this will effectively satisfy parts of this article even though the Prime Minister stated categorically that the Declaration was only symbolic!

The legal history surrounding the foreshore and seabed is very clear. Up until 2003 the public and the government all believed that the foreshore and seabed was owned by the Crown. Had that not been the case, Treaty of Waitangi claims would have included the foreshore and seabed as a matter of course. Then in 2003, the Court of Appeal’s activist judges controversially ruled that some Maori with land contiguous to the foreshore and seabed (in other words adjoining it) might have customary title. However, they also pointed out that the test – having to prove in a court of law continuous and uninterrupted use of the area since 1840 – was very high and they believed that few would succeed. So with Labour’s Foreshore and Seabed Act being passed in November 2004 to reaffirm Crown ownership, Maori customary title might have existed for just over a year.

In spite of those facts, National is intending to significantly lower the bar for Maori who are planning to claim “customary title” or ownership of the foreshore and seabed. First they intend to drop the “contiguous” land requirement, which will have the effect of massively expanding the number of iwi around the country who will be able to lodge claims – instead of it being restricted to the small number envisioned by the Court of Appeal. Secondly, National intends dropping the requirement for Maori to have to prove in a Court of law that they have had “continuous and uninterrupted use of the foreshore and seabed since 1840”, instead enabling them to negotiate directly with a Minister. The option to go to court will still be available – no doubt for those who fail to successfully negotiate with a Minister – with taxpayers being required to fund much of the costs of preparing their case.

Those Maori who cannot claim ownership but can argue a “customary right” to the foreshore and seabed, will gain protected status under the Resource Management Act, priority status in planning processes, the right to restrict public access to any part of the beach they deem to be areas of special significance to Maori, as well as the right to obtain “commercial benefit” from the area. These can be negotiated with a Minister, or proven in court.

National also intends to create a third property right to the foreshore and seabed, to ensure that other Maori do not miss out. “Mana tuku iho” is a ‘universal acknowledgment’, a blanket provision that will allocate the foreshore and seabed area all around the country not only to coastal iwi, but also to any others who can claim a connection with the area. There will be no need for negotiation or court application – Mana tuku iho will essentially be available on demand and will provide for the co-management of the area in addition to other rights.

If you are concerned about all of this, then join the
Coastal Coalition – an umbrella group that wants to keep the foreshore and seabed in Crown ownership by retaining the present 2004 Foreshore and Seabed Act. That Act gives Maori the opportunity to have their day in court to establish their customary rights. To find out more, click the Coastal Coalition icon.

http://www.nzcpr.com/Admin/cc%20mark%203.jpg

Time is running out – the new bill is expected within a few weeks. At least the Labour Government had the decency to release a policy document outlining their proposed foreshore and seabed law before the legislation was tabled in Parliament so that the public could provide feedback. However, National is clearly desperate to rush this through by Christmas – before the public realises what’s going on – so the next thing we will see is the bill.

The Attorney General has stated that National’s proposed law, which will undoubtedly open the floodgates to a new Maori grievance industry, will rely heavily on the concept of “tikanga” Maori. To help to clarify what that means, I will leave you with the definition of “tikanga” used by the Waitangi Tribunal in its report on the Crown’s foreshore and seabed policy:

“…everything is about tikanga, and tikanga is about everything. In the traditional Maori world view there is no matter that does not have tikanga attached to it, and the foreshore and seabed are quintessentially bound up with tikanga. Tikanga imbues consideration of every aspect of the elements themselves, and how humans interact with them.”
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July 6, 2010 5:17pm
Redbaiter

Obama’s illegal Presidency makes the news-

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=175013
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July 6, 2010 5:38pm
Caleb

i agree, managemnt should be sacked due to the poor content. tvnz is 95% shite.
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July 6, 2010 5:56pm
Tauhei Notts

I have received my form to confirm my details. It came from the Registrar of Electors. My problem is with the interpretation of the form. I am recorded as not being recorded as a New Zealand Maori or a descendant of a New Zealand Maori.
My situation is that I have recently become a Maori. Sometimes I wake up and feel like I am a Maori. I am not descended from any Maori but I still feel, occasionally, like I am a Maori.
My problem is with interpretation of the form.
The form asks;
My New Zealand Maori descent record should read “YES” I am a New Zealand Maori or a descendant of a New Zealand Maori.
But, I am not of Maori descent but I feel I am a Maori.
Could some erudite blogger please give me guidance on how I should complete the form.
And don’t tell me to call the 0800 367656 number as I have been there. Done that. The telephonists there are experts in 18th century Maori literature and know little else.
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July 6, 2010 6:01pm
side show bob

Tauhei, if it feels good do it, live for the now. Besides I would get in quick, once this shit gets a good head of steam I predict every man and their dog will have a drop of Maori blood in them. Failing that perhaps you could get a transfusion, try a few pints of Maori blood, at least you can honestly say you have Maori blood in you.

V2 happy to put my name to your petition and will do so shortly. Frankly it might be easier to buy the bastards some hearing aids, they are obviously deaf as posts.

If TVNZ was to revamp the best thing they could do is sack all the fucking socialists that make up the news. Then I suppose there would be no one left to turn the lights on.
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July 6, 2010 6:58pm
dad4justice

Business confidence is at an all time low, every second person you bump into has just lost their job, meanwhile Nutional build a cycle track as the prison population hit record levels. Yawn, ETS is mental and Helen, Heather and Judith heat up the big rotten apple.
Forget the recession kiwi get ready for a depression!
Pop another pill political dropkick type bull shit artist!!
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July 6, 2010 7:00pm
Manolo

The whole Maori roll is a crock. But, since there is plenty of money involved, I bet you’ll find Afghanis, Ethiopians, and even Brazilians claiming Ngai Tahu bloodlines and ancestry.

It would be a joke, if not paid by the NZ taxpayer.
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July 6, 2010 7:03pm
dad4justice

The local tribe Ngai Tahu seem to be at the horse races everyday. Oooopps sorry Rick Tau and Co.
Rip off ##### !!!!
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July 6, 2010 7:04pm
Hurf Durf

I can’t figure for the life of me why anyone would want a car powered by a battery.
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July 6, 2010 7:22pm
Caleb

battery only = no fuel tax.
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July 6, 2010 7:29pm
Johnboy

I feel like a Maori now and again.

Unfortunately the little tarts have an over inflated idea of what their talents are worth.

You would almost suspect they were trying to sell their meat at supermarket prices. 🙂
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July 6, 2010 7:30pm
dad4justice

Johnboy – thanks to greedy Maori I can’t pig out on Moa Steaks. Thanks for nothing bro!
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July 6, 2010 7:32pm
Johnboy

“I can’t figure for the life of me why anyone would want a car powered by a battery.”

Flossie, my wife, does.

She feels that riding a battery powered car would confer more status than the vibrator I bought her for Christmas. 🙂
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July 6, 2010 7:33pm
dad4justice

Helen has a battery broomstick.
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July 6, 2010 7:35pm
MikeNZ

Manolo (1746) Says:
July 6th, 2010 at 4:24 pm

They are very good at communication.
http://article.nationalreview.com/437609/trust-the-palestinian-authority/daniel-pipes?page=2
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July 6, 2010 7:52pm
Steve

Helen’s broomstick is powered by alternating currunts
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July 6, 2010 7:55pm
Luc Hansen

# hj (269) Says:
July 6th, 2010 at 8:28 am

The IPCC gets and audit:
http://www.economist.com/blogs/newsbook/2010/07/bias_and_ipcc_report&fsrc=nwl
******************************************************************************************************
One of the comments worth noting:

“The PBL report does not prove or indeed suggest systematic bias, and it stresses that it has found nothing that should lead the parliament of the Netherlands, or anyone else, to reject the IPCC’s findings.”

I would imagine HJ’s short span of attention actually precluded him/her from a careful reading of the article.
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July 6, 2010 9:55pm
Sonny Blount

Hey Groper,

Any thoughts or frustrations regarding the rest of the findings about a consistent bias towards negative conclusions, non-existent papers referenced and peer reviewed findings ignored in favor of non-peer reviewed material on the same topic?
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July 6, 2010 10:01pm
Luc Hansen

Bill English covering himself in glory again on Checkpoint:

Our wise one said that their needs to be a deterrent to stop refugees sailing their ~~ramshackle~~ state of the art crafts in our direction…

Really, talk about living in a gilded cage, divorced from reality – yes, that’s our boy Bill. No wonder he needed yet more of our money to pay for his cleaning lady!

Let’s list some of the deterrents already faced by asylum seekers:

raising the money to pay the smugglers – often borrowed from family members or, worse, loaned by the smugglers with the local family then in hock to the smugglers

leaving close family for at least a long time, at worst, forever

dying en route from disease, starvation etc

being killed and ditched overboard by the smugglers as the authorities close in

arrested by any of various state authorities on the way and ending up in horrific jails or camps

interned for years upon arrival at the country held in such high regard that lives are risked to make a new life there

suffer racist discrimination in their new country after arrival

being summarily executed just for being different, like an Afghani taxi driver in that bastion of tolerance, Christchurch.

An interesting insight into the world of asylum seekers can be read in “Barbarians at the Gate” – I forget the name of the author, a British journalist, and it’s about Eastern Europeans fleeing to the west, not Middle Easterners or Asians, but Bill should read it – maybe I should dig up my copy and post it to him.

I mean, what deterrent can Bill offer after all that? Machine guns at the gate?
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July 6, 2010 10:14pm
Robert Black

Just watching some old dick, probably a wino, doing the Bain sensational story on TV1.

Ok first of all, everyone knew David did it before the show.

But now you have thrown doubt into it with your ridiculous “journalism”.

“I think, I doubt…” who fuckin gives a fuck what you think?

Journalists are the law?

Journalists are scum sucking bottom dwellers.

And TV1 had the breaking news story all lauched and ready to go on their late TV news.

Here’s the news TV1.

You just made David Bain much more innocent and much more richer.

Nice one.

Hey, can you do an attacking news story on me too?

Lately I have suffered and need the cash and credibilty boost!

Haha!

Dumb fucks!
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July 6, 2010 10:17pm
Luc Hansen

I disagree with that claim of negative conclusions, Sonny. I find the opposite is true. The IPCC’s studies and conclusions are reached by consensus. This means the most conservative views are mainly the ones that make it into the report. Read my post above again and do your best to comprehend it – a forlorn hope, I know.

The fact is that rapid climate change is virtually certain in the relatively near future. Prepare for the worst but hope for the best should be our preferred course of action.
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July 6, 2010 10:22pm
Luc Hansen

# Johnboy (2909) Says:
July 6th, 2010 at 7:30 pm

I feel like a Maori now and again.

Unfortunately the little tarts have an over inflated idea of what their talents are worth.

You would almost suspect they were trying to sell their meat at supermarket prices. 🙂
*******************************************************

A good example of what passes for humour on KIwiblog.

But Johnboy’s not a racist, are you JB?

Like calling Asians “slitty eyed fucks” is just a term of endearment, isn’t it, JB?
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July 6, 2010 10:35pm
krazykiwi

Busy all day. Home and thought I’d try an experiment. Open GD and search for the term ‘racist’. Surprise, surprise its first used by Luc Hansen.

The IPCC’s studies and conclusions are reached by consensus

Nonsense, in that it’s not true.. and even if that were true it would still be nonsense. Science is about truth, not consensus. Perhaps more importantly, the IPCC isn’t about science at all. I encourage readers to read Climate Change and the Death of Science.

This means the most conservative views are mainly the ones that make it into the report

The IPCC’s reports are the new global benchmark in alarmism. Some people drink the kool-aid. You’re drowning in it Luc.
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July 6, 2010 10:35pm
Rich Prick

“I disagree with that claim of negative conclusions, Sonny. I find the opposite is true. The IPCC’s studies and conclusions are reached by consensus.”

As are most religions. Indeed, I think there was quite a bit or argy-bargy about the content on the New Testament. The “scientests” of the time “settled” it. Nothing new here.
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July 6, 2010 10:51pm
krazykiwi

This is a very good piece of analysis of the IPCC’s claim about the number of researchers who contributed to AR4. Some of the tricks …
– Double counting contributors
– Duplicate listings with different name spellings (including a woman listed/counted with her maiden name then again with her married name, umlauted ‘u’ is sometimes shown as ‘ue’).
– Counting the same person authoring and reviewing as two people

How many times have you heard or read words to the effect that 4000 scientists from the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate change (IPCC) supported the claims about a significant human influence on climate? I think I’ve seen it on television, radio and the Internet and I know that politicians at national levels have quoted such figures. There’s no question whatsoever. It’s utterly wrong.
::
Fifty-three authors and five reviewers are all that can be said to explicitly support the claim of a significant human influence on climate. The figure of 4,000 is a myth. Even the IPCC’s total of 3750 is a myth. Not even the 2879 individuals can be shown to support the claim. The true number is about 60, or maybe if we asked each of those privately, perhaps even fewer.

If they exaggerate/falsify something as simply verified as the number of authors and contributors, how can anything the IPCC say be accepted?

Simple. It can’t.
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July 6, 2010 10:56pm
Rich Prick

krazykiwi, some like Luc find a few “our-fathers” or the agw equivalent helpful. How are you enjoying your compulsory tithing to this religion that kicked in the other day?
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July 6, 2010 11:01pm
krazykiwi

@RP – Not enjoying it at all. Quite pissed off actually.

It’s a rort.

It’s a scam.

Brought to you by the team in blue.

Party vote ACT.
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July 6, 2010 11:04pm
Rich Prick

I’m ACT and if there was something viable and more liberterian I’d be one of those. I am so disappointed that ACT didn’t call bullshit on the ETS. They should have yet didn’t. It should have been the line in the sand. Smith would have been a convienient loss to National.
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July 6, 2010 11:12pm
jcuknz

side show bob the point about welfare stimulating the ecconomy is that people then have money to spend on goods which have to be produced by industry. A lot better than the foolish current ‘balance the books’ idiotic policies in vogue which takes money out of the ecconomy. A strong recovered ecconomy can repay loans, a weak ecconomy just has to keep on borrowing.
So governments simply have to bite the bullet and both look after the unemployed AND stimulate the country … more than a cycle track too.
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July 6, 2010 11:21pm
Hurf Durf

How do you get Luc Hansen to stop believing in climate change?

Tell him the IPCC is staffed entirely by Jews.
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July 6, 2010 11:24pm
Rich Prick

Hurf, heh, or worse still, Jewish bankers. That ought to do it. Let’s try it?
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July 6, 2010 11:29pm
Hurf Durf

It’s worth a go.
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July 7, 2010 12:07am
Luc Hansen

Hey rich prick, your richness is clearly not in clarity of thought, but the “prick” is a master stroke of truth.

You guys can’t find anything I write that is against Jews – all religion leaves me unmoved and so long as a religion leaves me alone, I can’t be bothered with it.

The religion of the Europeans who stole Palestine and continue, with US support and active assistance, is irrelevant to the principles of human rights and international law involved.
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July 7, 2010 12:10am
Hurf Durf

No, it’s “unintended inferences,” which is something Freud would have fun with.

Also the fact you bang on about Israel and never anywhere else indulging in the oppression of your beloved Other i.e. Indonesia or Thailand.
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July 7, 2010 12:35am
Rich Prick

Oh you deluded socialist. Who “stole” Palestine. You kind of give it all away with that one. But we do love having Uncle Sam on the right sealing stuff and being the World’s Police. Go America. And the Jewish bankers. Now that really ought to do it.
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July 7, 2010 12:39am
Rich Prick

Oh, and your mate Cullen labled me a “Rich Prick”, so you are stuck with it now, a bit like a tatoo from 1942.
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July 7, 2010 12:46am
TimG_Oz

I love the logic of Luc.

Economic Refugees in 2000s, not in danger of their homeland – the white governments are evil for sending them back where they won’t be persecuted

Refugees in 1945-2010 to Palestine from Europe, Arab and African nations where they have been persecuted. White governments are evil for NOT sending them back to be persecuted

Remember the rules are different in Luc’s eye’s for Jews compared with Despots.
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July 7, 2010 12:48am
bhudson

@jcuknz – 11:21pm

So the plan is the government give more money in benefits to stimulate the domestic economy (I note your point is not about poverty amongst the beneficiaries, but a positive boost to the economy.)

So how do we do that? The choices are:

– print more money – hardly the smartest of moves given it’s hyper-inflationary consequences
– take more off others in the form of higher taxes

I will assume, charitably, that no one would be stupid enought to profess printing more money is the answer. That leaves raising income tax rates.

Kindly explain how taking money off me so that someone else can spend it will provide a greater boost to the economy than me spending it myself? Or perhaps I might not spend it, bit save it – thus helping to address the imbalance within the economy.

What you propose is no more than theft. For no positive outcome – redistribution of wealth for no positive gain.
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July 7, 2010 7:58am

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