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July 29, 2010 8:00am by David Farrar

General Debate 29 July 2010

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General Debate

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Inventory2

I wonder if Phil Goff has signed his own political death warrant simultaneously.
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July 29, 2010 4:32pm
Colonel Masters

Typical Labour modus operandi: they do not care when their party members screw over the electorate, but show any disloyalty and you are out!
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July 29, 2010 4:35pm
Kris K

Robert Mapplethorpe 4:13 pm,

I thought Bradford’s Bill was meant to stop all this …

If that IS what you thought, then you thought wrong. But that’s not unusual for you, is it?

“Everybody quick, look over there..!!” – It’s that queer perverted photographer’s namesake attempting to make capital on foreign territory …
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July 29, 2010 4:53pm
metcalph

For an experienced pollie, you would have thought he would have taken a better way of crashing and burning.
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July 29, 2010 4:54pm
Yvette

“Oh that naughty Chris Columbus. I would have to bet he is acting on instructions from NY.”

If she told him to do it, she should have at the same time told him how to do it.
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July 29, 2010 5:07pm
WebWrat

http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/25831
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July 29, 2010 5:10pm
RightNow

Yvette, he probably misunderstood the instruction to put the letter in a plain envelope, and instead put the letter in an envelope with a plane on it. Addressing it to Vernon Small was probably her idea. Doing it in his own handwriting was probably his.
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July 29, 2010 5:20pm
Angus

“Everybody quick, look over there..!!” – It’s that queer perverted photographer’s namesake attempting to make capital on foreign territory …”

LOL

Make sure you wash your hands afterwards if you ever happen to pick up his bullwhip.
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July 29, 2010 5:21pm
Inventory2

DPF is a true legend. He’s woken at 5am in London after getting texts from New Zealand to blog on Carter. No wonder he’s the best in the business!
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July 29, 2010 5:24pm
tom hunter

Tom, look at how the thread has run – Cha introduced the Goldline/Beck story, I commented on it, then RB, mawm and now you are doing the “Look! Over There” routine – mawm has just admitted that was his intention.

Let me see if I can get your mind around the following concept.

One of the reasons why so many right-wing blogsites have proliferated is that right-wingers like myself felt that stories we wanted to discuss were simply being ignored as not relevant by the high and mighty editors and reporters of mainstream papers, TV and radio.

As a result, if I feel that some story that bashes away relentlessly at some rightwinger (think George Allen and “Macaca”) has some importance then I’ll go take a look at all the usual suspects banging the drum (WaPo, NYT, Huffington Post, etc).

By the same token I’m not going to pay much attention to the same story being peddled by left-wing commentators on a right-wing site – especially if I know that there’s a big, juicy story on those sites about some key aspect of the left’s machinations, because then I’ll suspect that the left is trying to force a distraction.

You’ve been at this for days now, with links to people like Chait (member of Journolist) desperately trying to spin his way out of it, not to mention the usual attempts at mockery via language such as conspiracy. All power to the poor bastard as this is credibility life or death for him. But I don’t see why I should reward his efforts by talking about what he wants to talk about, let alone what a sympathetic commentator wants to talk about.

You are correct, Reverend Wright is not relevant to it.

Is that so? The fact that Barry sat in a church for 20 years listening to a raving Jew-hater who unwinds conspiracy theories about white people deliberately infecting blacks with AIDS, a man to whom Obama handed his daughters to for religious education, the man who married the Obamas, a man whose spiel inspired the title of one of Obama’s autobiographies?

You’re saying that such things were not relevant to telling us about Obama: his principles, his judgment, his beliefs, the people he would select, the visions he would pursue? You were really willing to let Obama dismiss the subsequent public meltdown of his religious mentor with the outrageous bullshit claim that he had never heard anything like that from the mans mouth in the previous 20 years?

Really? Wright just suddenly snapped? You believed all that and thus saw no reason to wonder who Obama really was underneath the campaign spin? You and Richard Cohen both, although at least Cohen now openly wonders who Obama really is.

There is one easy test as to whether this was relevant or not: – imagine if it had been John McCain.

That’s a rhetorical question for you of course. You’ve acknowledged that you were perfectly in line with the Journolistas. No brainwashing required because you already agreed with them in advance.

Maybe you missed the Goldline/Beck starter at 11.41

Nah – I saw it –and ignored it for the reasons outlined above – plus the fact that I was focused on getting my project through the last stage of change management.

Should we not mention Beck until he has run out of steam on that in case we are accused of “going off-topic”?

You can hammer away at Beck to your heart’s content, just don’t complain when nobody here can be bothered getting into a debate with you about it – and unless you like making people laugh, don’t try the spin-on-spin of complaining that right-wingers mocking or ignoring your efforts at diverting away from a topic of interest to right-wingers is itself the diversion.

To repeat: this is a right-wing blog site. Right-wingers here are going to talk about things you don’t want to talk about, from points of view you mostly don’t like or respect. Moroever, they’re not going to dance to your moderate centre-left tune-of-the-day selection. If they wanted to do that they’d all be over at Public Address.
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July 29, 2010 5:24pm
grumpyoldhori

Kris K you are right, the killing of that child was an absolute disgrace, but, when people try to suggest that only Maori cause crime by not mentioning crime caused by non Maori they are hiding THEIR heads in the sand.
Besides as mentioned by another all Maori and a hell of a lot of so called Pakeha have either Pakeha or Maori blood/DNA.
It would be interesting to run Starboards DNA through the test, a lot of so called Pakeha in the thirties,forties and fifties had Maori blood which they kept hidden.
A DNA check at birth for all kiwis would be interesting in it’s findings.
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July 29, 2010 5:38pm
Jack5

Another bone to chew on…

Radio NZ’s Labour Radio seems to have abandoned any pretence at impartiality on the pig welfare issue. Other parts of the MSM are also emotional and putty in the hands of the factory-farm crusaders.

I abhor animal cruelty as much as anyone, but some of the folk campaigning on pig farming practices are fanatics who would also ban people from even having pet dogs. They would wipe out NZ livestock farming, without which, of course, this country goes down into the lower deciles of the Third World. They would probably even ban the use of mice in medical research. They will be campaigning against pig hunting next.

Fuck these nut cases!

Naturally, the MSM should cover pig welfare allegations, However, they could treat it neutrally and unemotionally and with the mild scepticism appropriate for all campaigns by zealots.

You would think from the tone of some of the reporters, that they were talking to suspected war criminals. It seemed to me tonight the Labour Radio reporter was almost rude to a vet she interviewed. There was rabbiting on about unreturned phone calls. The NZ farming community deserves the same level of courtesy and moderate tone as used to interview a prominent Labour figure on the Chris Carter issue.

It’s bad enough having an advertisingless radio channel of the Left financed by taxpayers, but it’s intolerable if it’s going to be tabloid leftist radio channel bludging on the taxpayer, with all pretence at impartiality abandoned.

Sell Labour Radio now!
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July 29, 2010 5:45pm
WebWrat

As I said over here: http://falfn.com/CrusaderRabbit/?p=766#comment-1705

“It is absolutely impossible to have any respect for any politician these days.

They may be able to feed bull shit to the sheeple but I wouldn’t even trust them to feed out hay to my sheep.

Was it Keeting that said to someone in Parliament, “You haven’t got the brains of a sheep!” When forced to apologise, he said, “I apologise, you do have the brains of a sheep!”

Carter … sheep shit for brains.

And these pricks get to run our country.

FFS!”
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July 29, 2010 6:01pm
tom hunter

but, when people try to suggest that only Maori cause crime by not mentioning crime caused by non Maori they are hiding THEIR heads in the sand.

I agree with Grumpy. There are plenty of pieces of white trash in this country that do some pretty awful things.

I can understand that Starboard and others get pissed off with Maori academics and “leaders” who constantly try to turn this sort of crap back on Pakeha society – but as bad as that is it should not be an excuse for indulging in comments like ..another one dead…what a race eh…

It’s not about anything inherent in the genes of our race. I don’t normally indulge in the use of an already over-used term of abuse – but that sort of comment really is literal, racist, bullshit.

It’s a crap situation and it has arisen because people have been brought up to believe that they are not really responsible for themselves and their actions. Whatever they do, it’s a reaction to what someone else has done – even if done a hundred years ago – or the bland, opaque villain of “Society”. That too is bullshit.

I don’t know what the answer is – but I’m sure that it starts with looking that prick in the eye and telling him that there are no excuses: that he did, that he lost control of his emotions, that before he’s allowed back into society he’s going to have to cool his heels for a long, long time while he learns the lesson, and that any excuse given will be ignored.

Moreover, the same message has to be given – eye-to-eye – to all his friends and family that may make excuses for him and others who have merely been “lucky” so far in not severely hurting or killing.

Only from that point on there can there be any hope.
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July 29, 2010 6:46pm
hj

It’s a wonder people haven’t picked up on this Most Important Issue> M.I.I.

Green MP Kevin Hague:

“We are moving into a new phase of the collective national discussion about the Treaty, and as Greens we have a responsibility both to be an active and ethical voice in that discussion but also to work to equip others to participate in that discussion from an informed and principled basis, rather than sheer short term self interest.

Discussion to date has focused on the return of usually a small fraction of those resources unfairly taken from Maori as reparation, on reducing inequalities and on the rights of Maori as an ethnic and cultural minority with a threatened language and culture. While some of these issues have been addressed in part through the deliberations of the Waitangi Tribunal, these issues are, in fact, largely unrelated to the Treaty. If there were no Treaty, as there is not in a number of other societies around the world, these would all still be issues that would need to be addressed in a fair and just society.

The phase of the discussion that we now need to move into is one that that focuses on Maori status as the indigenous people of this country and on the actual content of the Treaty: a statement of the terms and conditions for the presence of non-Maori. The Maori right to self-determination pre-dated the Treaty and was not altered by it. What is at issue in understanding the Treaty are the rights of non-Maori.*

*At the 2002 Green Party conference Turei put a remit forward calling for the Greens to endorse the “Maori” version of the Treaty Of Waitangi.
http://www.britannica.com/bps/additionalcontent/18/37180151/GREENS-FACE-OBILIVION

One awaits with interest
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July 29, 2010 6:50pm
Hurf Durf

Cha, DenseOldFuckwit, Delirium and Billy Bonkers continue to wail about the VRWC in their effete bubble of theirs. All the while they preach about the wonders of public transport which is HATEFUL and ATROCIOUS and ABSOLUTELY SHIT; however, all the rage I accumulated spending an hour and a half on an Auckland bus melted away after I learnt about the Labour Party is disintegrating at full pelt. I love it. Go Carter, go!
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July 29, 2010 7:41pm
F E Smith

Mawm, the refugees in South Africa are multi-ethnic, so one cannot ascribe it to a particular group. So the cause must be something else. What they do have in common is a large amount of permanently unemployed young men, and that going back over a generation or more. There are other factors, of course, but that is a common feature.
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July 29, 2010 9:00pm
Pete George

You’ve acknowledged that you were perfectly in line with the Journolistas.

I haven’t.

and unless you like making people laugh, don’t try the spin-on-spin of complaining that right-wingers mocking or ignoring your efforts at diverting away from a topic of interest to right-wingers is itself the diversion.

You started accusing me of diversion in your first post. Tom, like anyone else, you can ignore what I post if you want to, but three of your four posts here have been attempting to try and bluster me away. Maybe it is you providing the amusement.

To repeat: this is a right-wing blog site. Right-wingers here are going to talk about things you don’t want to talk about, from points of view you mostly don’t like or respect. Moroever, they’re not going to dance to your moderate centre-left tune-of-the-day selection. If they wanted to do that they’d all be over at Public Address.

To repeat: this is DPFs blog site. So far he has an open policy on who can post. Some right-wingers seem to claim it as their site, but it is no more or less their site than mine. The fact that my views are much more in line with DPF than the far right claim jumpers here escapes them. If you want a narrow minded mutual back slapping experience and don’t what to start your own blog then try Crusader Rabbit.
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July 30, 2010 7:07am
Jack5

WOOPS! Meant to post this in the July 30 debate. Will repost.

Paul G. Buchanan’s 4.21 post links to a very interesting article, presumably by him, on the Kiwipolitico blog. (I repeat the link below).

This is how the immigration debate should be widened. People like Hickey (my 3.49 post) would shut down such debate by innuendo of or overt accusations of “racism”.

The danger in the political elite and economics-financial sector people like Hickey shutting down debate is that it will eventually and inevitably lead to a nasty counteraction with more extreme debate. Perhaps if National and Labour don’t want NZ First resurrected, they should open the immigration debate themselves.

Buchanan rightly points out that there are far wider aspects to immigration than purely economic aspects, and shows how Singapore practises quite strong racial preferences in its immigration and population policy. Interestingly, I believe Singapore is the homeland of NZ Hooerald writer Lincoln Tan, who writes up the cause of Chinese migrants in Auckland.

As well as the PC fog that stifles discussion of the racial make-up of immigration, just as the European media long stifled discussion of Muslim migration into Europe, there is a general reluctance to discuss anything that might reflect badly on China. PM Key apologises for an MP who protests about the ruthless Chinese colonisation of Tibet. In Auckland (link below) the Hooerald trumpets about China financing Confucian centres in NZ.

For the real story about the Confucian centres see the second link below, to a report from Der Spiegel about China’s foreign policy. Here’s a relevant extract:

Beijing has already installed more than 500 Confucius Institutes around the world, in hopes of promoting what it views as China’s cultural superiority.

Link to the Buchanan article:
http://www.kiwipolitico.com/2010/07/the-racial-basis-of-a-small-se-asian-state/

Link to NZ Herald Confucian centres in NZ schools:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/chinese-in-nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=147&objectid=10660868

Link to Der Spiegel article on China’s foreign strategy:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,708645,00.html
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July 30, 2010 9:01pm

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