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July 27, 2010 8:00am by David Farrar

General Debate 27 July 2010

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Yvette

Television has done much for psychiatry by spreading information about it, as well as contributing to the need for it.
– Alfred Hitchcock
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July 27, 2010 8:01am
tom hunter

The Shirley Sherrod story continues to unwind in the US. In this case providing a further demonstration of how useless modern journalists are.

Joan Walsh of Salon writes a warm, glowing article on the Sherrod family, in particular her husband Charles, The Civil Rights Heroism of Charles Sherrod:

Andrew Breitbart sure picked the wrong people to symbolize black “racism.”
If there’s anyone more clueless about our civil rights history than Breitbart, as well as more abusive to it, I’m challenged to think of who it might be. He tests my commitment to nonviolent social change, but I’ll share the work of Charles Sherrod to remember my values.

If I get a chance to talk to Charles Sherrod, I’ll let him tell you what he thinks, in his own words, here.

Awwwww. Unfortunately for her a lowly blogger, Dan Riehl, is on the case:

First, a note of heartfelt appreciation for Joan Walsh of Salon. Her moving post on Charles Sherrod – in defense of his wife, Shirley – provided the inspiration required to dust off my Google skills. I simply had to fulfill her stated desire to share the actual words of Civil Rights icon Charles Sherrod with her readers, so touched was I by her profound tribute. And she’s been swamped on TV, justifying Shirley Sherrod calling Fox and Andrew Breitbart racist. I can only hope she will be kind enough to direct her readers here, so we can all share his unique wisdom on race relations together, as one. That is, after all, the way it should be, is it not, Joan?

Riehl provides her quote above – and then takes her to the woodshed (that violent imagery is me just being, sans Ackerman, metaphorical of course).

Okay, Joan, though I do confess to being somewhat puzzled by the first quote I stumbled upon, especially as it came relatively recently – a full year after America had installed its first black administration in the White House.

Charles Sherrod: “We must stop the white man and his Uncle Toms from stealing our elections.”

Gee, Joan, can you tell me what’s so heroic about telling a room full of young black minds not even out in the world, yet – that if they ever embrace political, or socio-economic ideas that don’t jibe with your hero’s, the one elevated in a room before them, that they will be denounced as race-traitors?

That is what Uncle Tom means, after all. What REALLY is heroic in that? It looks to me like what your hero does is build up their black identity to an extreme, then sends them a message that, if they don’t vote, or act the way he wants them to, he and his community make them outcasts, stripping that very identity from them as traitors to their race. Is that the message heroic Civil Rights leaders are passing on to young blacks today? It sounds like it to me, Joan.

Turns out the whole family is pretty much another sad, warmed-over remnant over classic Black-Marxist-Liberation thinking, which is one way of transcending racism I guess. Pity Joan Walsh the journalist knew nothing of Google before writing her article. What was that word she used – clueless

Read the whole thing
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July 27, 2010 8:25am
Chris2

Some people in the media today are claiming if the Government lowered the drink/drive alcohol limit from 80 to 50 then it would save 15-33 lives and prevent 680 injuries annually.

Is it true that drivers with a reading of less than 80, but more than 50 are causing this level of injury and death. Or is it made up unsupported figures?
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July 27, 2010 8:26am
Pete George

Tom, to show that you are not doing a Breitbart, what is the whole context of that quote from Charles Sherrod?
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July 27, 2010 8:31am
hj

CLENDON CHALLENGES MINISTERIAL NO ON OFFSHORE DRILLING

Green MP David Clendon isn’t taking no for an answer over whether Maori have a right to a share in oil and gas under New Zealand’s continental shelf.

Mr Clendon got the one-word answer last week when he asked Energy Minister Gerry Brownlee if the Government intended to consider Te Aupouri’s claims to resources off 90-Mile beach which are being opened up for prospecting.

He doesn’t accept the Government’s assertion that the International law of the Sea and the Continental Shelf Act rule out treaty claims.

“This is a very live issue and if there is wealth to be extracted it would seem clear both under treaty and under international law that Maori should get a reasonable claim, a reasonable royalty from that wealth,” Mr Clendon says.
http://www.waatea.blogspot.com
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July 27, 2010 8:32am
Inventory2

@ Chris 2 – considering that figure is being put forward by a lobbyist who has decribed the government’s decision as “gutless”, I think one could safely conclude that figure won’t stand scrutiny.

http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2010/07/more-hyperbole.html
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July 27, 2010 8:41am
jcuknz

Banana Llama (896) Says:
July 26th, 2010 at 8:59 am
Perhaps you could define a Redneck Jcuknz, your post just about put me off reading Pete Georges again.

Probaly anyone further, well further, to the right than I am. I don’t read all Pete’s posts 🙂
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July 27, 2010 8:43am
jcuknz

In view of the position of Maori in our society, that of a largely state supported underclass, they will receive benefit from the well being of the country from offshore resource development. Anything else is racist preferencial treatment.
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July 27, 2010 8:47am
jcuknz

I think it ironical that Australian has the tougher drink driving laws but they still have the same problem as New Zealand … hardly a very good argument for NZ to change its rules. The proposed changes seem very sensible and measured to me.
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July 27, 2010 8:50am
tom hunter

Pete, to show that you are not here simply to disrupt the thread with questions you could answer yourself, you can go through the links I provided and do a bit of Googling.

You should be able to find the time during the long day before you hit comment #6060. Perhaps you’ll find something that shows Mr Sherrod (and his wife) in a better light.

Meantime, I’m off to work to finally put a project to bed.

By the way – I love how you and the rest of the left have discovered context in the last few days. Baby steps, but worth noting I think.
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July 27, 2010 8:52am
Pete George

It will be interesting to see what effect the targeted drink drive measures have without dropping the over 20 maximum. Then after two years if it is dropped from .8 to .5 we can see how this affects things separately.

I suspect that many people who have a drink or three aiming to keep under .8 will almost always end up being under .5 anyway.
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July 27, 2010 8:55am
Yvette

@ Chris 2 –
The figures are probably calculated from overseas research, of which there were several summaries and examples in an item on stuff.co.nz back about Saturday when they had an item on how close it was expected that the Cabinet decision would be on this issue. I can’t find the article now just using stuff’s ‘search this site’.
They cited, for example, the percentage drops attributed to the .8 down to .5 change in NSW.
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July 27, 2010 8:56am
Ed Snack

That’s a bit of a “drive by” Pete George, “doing a Breitbart”, is it not. You need to be reminded, Breitbart posted a video, truncated not edited, the point of which was not the speaker per se, but the audience reaction. Here you have a person telling a story that starts with how she discriminated on racial grounds against a person, and the crowd very audibly shows approval of that specific act. That Sherrod goes on to pull back from the purely racist approach in that case (and instead hew to a fake rich/poor narrative instead) isn’t germane to the initial audience reaction, except that if you do watch the whole video, note that the audience shows no approval of the recission from racism.

Conclusion, as intended, that the audience demonstrates outright racist behaviour. And who is the audience, why, it’s that paragon of racial virtue, the NAACP, recently spraying “racist” accusations in many directions.

Following the posting of the video on Breitbart’s site, it was picked up and broadcast by….MNBC, but not by Fox. Almost immediately after, Sherrod is fired after pressure by whom, Fox and Co, NO, by NAACP and the White House. Obama himself was apparently “briefed” on the matter. So, in time honoured fashion, having been exposed as racists and then acting unfairly and precipitously (while note you, in possession of the full video themselves at the time), the actual people responsible for firing Sherrod, along with Sherrod herself, blame Fox (who did not broadcast the video, wanting to see more of the video), and Breitbart. Why not blame MSNBC who DID broadcast the video, instead of Fox who didn’t ? Not suit the “narrative” that they’re trying to generate ?

And now we have the quotes from the “heroic” Charles Sherrod, with those wonderful, healing and no-racist words “Uncle Tom” and “stop the white man stealing our elections”.

It’s a typical and despicable attempt at spin. Racism is alive and well in the USA, and from the evidence, primarily practised and promoted by groups such as NAACP, the Democrats, and their ubiquitous allies in the MSM.
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July 27, 2010 9:04am
Pete George

Tom, I did a bit of googling, and all I found was a bunch of right wing blogs pushing that one liner. And this – another one liner, from Riehl:

In phone call today, @danriehl told me, “I swear, I’ll hunt you down and kill your family.”

The Other McCain

Followed by the phrase “Kinda out of context. ”

Riehl has some history – eg

Dan Riehl accused Sidarth of making racially insensitive and homophobic posts on the AutoAdmit message board,including posts where Sidarth allegedly admitted to having sex with a transvestite while high on methamphetamine.. Although several blog commenters informed Riehl that the S.R. Sidarth poster on AutoAdmit was an impersonator, and while Sidarth himself denied ever posting on AutoAdmit, Riehl refused to retract his story, arguing that Sidarth’s denial “cannot be verified without an IP check, which I imagine would violate privacy restrictions.”

When the Sherrod video edit hit the internet Riehl jumped to Breitbart’s defense immediately, so it’s not surprising to see that he has searched until he found something to try and discredit the Sherrods.

Incidentally, Breitbart has defended himself:

Breitbart says he only later learned had been edited to omit Sherrod’s “moral of the story” explanation that changed the meaning of comments that, in the edited version, were explosively inflammatory

He is either lying or has been used as a gullible distributor.
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July 27, 2010 9:09am
Falafulu Fisi

I coach a group of 9 and 10 year old kids in maths in the evening. I run 1 to 1 and a 1/2 hour session twice a week. These are children of relatives & friends and none of them are gifted. Last night, one of them (a 9 year old boy) had managed to solve his first calculus problem at level of final year University calculus course. The problem he solved was a double integral-type examples. Some of the kids already know polynomial equation differentiation (first, second derivatives) and also polynomial single integral (definite & indefinite integration), but I was unsure whether they can cope with introducing them to double (2 variable) integrals. One of them did.

Actually I have been surprised myself with the speed of their learning when I first started the program at the beginning of the year. I introduced them integers (negative & positive), then I moved on to fractions (add, subtract, multiply, divide, BODMAS). Once they mastered those, then I introduced 1 variable linear equation. They quickly master those, and then come simultaneous equations. It took a while, but now, they have mastered those. Next I introduce calculus problems (i.e., 6th & 7th form type problems), which they can now solve comfortably. I haven’t shown them how to find critical/turning points yet, because I haven’t taught them of how to calculate roots yet, and it is something that I will do later.

I am no education expert, but I think that our education system has been dominated by too many education experts who do influence government policies. I think that these experts are a hindrance to the acceleration of learning in our education system. These experts are what Nobel Physicist Richard Feynman called the Cargo Cult Science. I am sure that if these education experts know what I am teaching these 9/10 year old kids, they’ll probably criticize me for educating young children at that age, with materials that shouldn’t be given to them or that they’re not ready for. May be they (education expert) will get the Children’s commission to condemn me for what I am doing.

PS : Before I start each tutorial, I told the kids to ignore Global Warming if they’re being told at school that it is man that is responsible.
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July 27, 2010 9:13am
hj

Weeds Over The Landscape

At the 2002 Green Party conference [the Green Party co-leader] Turei put a remit forward calling for the Greens to endorse the “Maori” version of the Treaty Of Waitangi. Which guarantees the original form of governance of Maori by a tribal chief and governorship of settlers by Britain.
http://www.britannica.com/bps/additionalcontent/18/37180151/GREENS-FACE-OBILIVION

In his maiden speech into Parliament our (15year old) youngest M.P casually tells us we should “dump the Monarchy”.

[Now I remember a bunch or us boys piling into “Hector”( the V8) to go and see Elvis and John Wayne in the next town and hearing the thrill of the drum roll just before the curtain went up revealing her majesty reviewing the changing of the guard at Buckingham Palace. Then there was the Christmas message with its carefully crafted words that were designed to please everyone and offend nobody…. all good harmless fun. ]
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July 27, 2010 9:14am
Chris2

Yvette @ 8:56am – thanks for that, quite useful.

I think translating stats. from one country to another has to be done with caution, rather than making the bold statements that the MoT have apparently made.

We are similar to Australia, but not the same. For example the urban speed limit is 60km/h there but 50 here. And the Highway there is 110, so the speed at which (drunk) drivers travel will be correspondingly higher and the death and injury higher than might show up in NZ, drunk or not.

The only truly meaningful statistics would be from establishing exactly how many NZ drivers involved in injury and death had a reading of 50-80. I think that is planned for the future here with Police breath testing every driver in involved in an accident.
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July 27, 2010 9:17am
hj

PS : Before I start each tutorial, I told the kids to ignore Global Warming if they’re being told at school that it is man that is responsible.
….
do you teach them to question how they know?
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July 27, 2010 9:23am
jcuknz

This must be very worrying to the millions of the unemployed …
“What’s worrisome is that American business has gotten used to being a lot leaner, and it could take a while before they start hiring again.”
ROBERT C. POZEN, a senior lecturer at Harvard Business School, on companies that are increasing profits by cutting back.
NYT Today.
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July 27, 2010 9:24am
andrei

Falafulu Fisi
kids are predisposed to learn language and Mathematics is a symbolic language.

Given one on one (presumably) from you I am unsurprised that a nine year old can learn integral calculus.

I doubt this child’s teacher has had much exposure to it though, she (it is highly unlikely it is a he) will however be well versed in post modern intellectual disciplines – such as gender studies.
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July 27, 2010 9:46am
david

Christchurch – oh – Christchurch, you are truly f**ked. Was down on the weekend and everyone I spoke to said they would vote for Anderton on the basis that they all hate Bob Parker’s guts for being wasteful.

The only response I could give was to shake the head and say – be careful what you wish for, you might just get it and you will deserve what you get.
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July 27, 2010 9:58am
Viking2

So Johnkey wants the traders in charge. Not content with having a good candidate they are intent on challenging their own, rather than their competitors in the race for power. Around Wellington there are how many Labour held seats that are there for the picking? Oh yep that will mean hard work and door knocking and all that. you know the stuff that humbles those that wish to be MP’s and brings them face to face with the real life of many.
But no the new aspirants don’t want that. They want to piggy back on the efforts of others. HMMM sounds like socialism practices at their worst.
Go do the hard yards MR Scott.

Rising star eyes Nat MP’s seat
By VERNON SMALL
Last updated 05:00 27/07/2010

Wairarapa MP John Hayes is facing a challenge for the seat from within the National Party by a multimillionaire investment banker.

In an echo of Prime Minister John Key’s route to Parliament, when he successfully challenged sitting Helensville MP Brian Neeson, former Credit Suisse First Boston managing director Alastair Scott is signalling he will throw his hat in the ring.
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July 27, 2010 10:10am
Inventory2

I have no problem with that at all Viking2. What has Hayes achieved in two terms in the House? Your extract from the story also doesn’t mention that Scott now owns a successful vineyard in Martinborough, WITHIN the Wairarapa electorate.

Challenges to sitting electorate MP’s are not necessarily a bad thing.
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July 27, 2010 10:38am
Jibbering Gibbon

But no the new aspirants don’t want that. They want to piggy back on the efforts of others. HMMM sounds like socialism practices at their worst.

Yes, every candidate should first stage their own revolution, form their own state, laws and parliament and only then have the audacity to participate in the established system. And then only at the bottom. Sweeping floors in the toilets, till we decide they’re worthy, or maybe once we retire, whichever makes us feel more in control. HMMM sounds like socialism practices at their worst.
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July 27, 2010 10:45am
Inventory2

@ david (9.58am) – point well made. And I’ve just blogged about Anderton – can you believe that Jim is accusing Bob Parker of double-dipping – talks about pots and kettles!!!

http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2010/07/ol-man-hypocrite.html
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July 27, 2010 10:52am
Pete George

Challenges to sitting electorate MP’s are not necessarily a bad thing.

Should happen more often, the more challenges the better. It doesn’t mean the challenger will get selected, but if they are better they should.

Don’t know anything about John Hayes, he doesn’t have much of a profile. H
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July 27, 2010 10:53am
Augustus

I am pleased the government hasn’t lowered the drinking limit on drivers on the basis of junk-statistics, such as how many lives could potentially be saved and injuries prevented. I presume the numbers stated by said lobbyist represents the number of people (not just drivers) involved in accidents somewhere (not here, since the study is yet to come), who were between the 50 and 80 mcg wherever this was looked at. That proves nothing at all, it doesn’t even differentiate between accidents caused by the driver under the influence and those merely involved some other way. If the announced study finds that drivers between 50 and 80 mcg cause more accidents than those under 50 mcg, than it will be time to act on this. Before that, this is just more wowser hysteria.
Incidentally, I think it is sad that young driver cannot now spend a night somewhere after they had a drink and drive home in the morning with 10 mcg of alcohol in their blood. Especially as this year, in Nelson, the police targetted a campground full of young people, cordonning of the access road the morning after an event. Strictly random checks of course.
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July 27, 2010 10:59am
Redbaiter

Your comment is awaiting moderation. July 27th, 2010 at 10:18

“I have no idea what your (sic) talking about.”

Wow, now that is amazing. Not trying to be nasty Mr. Edwards, but that someone who claims some degree of professional expertise in the media business to be ignorant of one of the biggest scandals ever in the US media, and to be apparently unaware of something that has attracted such widespread reporting in the blogosphere, is a revelation that leaves me somewhat gobsmacked.

Of course it hasn’t made it into the mainstream media here in NZ (or in the US either) because it is so damaging to the the false layer of objectivity left-media like to cocoon themselves in, but even so it is still an immense story. Really, I am shocked that after a week of unrelenting reporting on the subject elsewhere you remain unaware of the event. (1,170,000 hits on Google) Are your information sources really that limited??

I can summarise it (in the limited space I have here) as a collection of influential media commentators and academics (400 or more at Time Magazine, CNN, the Washington Post, The Guardian, press people in the Obama campaign) who worked assiduously behind the scenes to shape favourable public perceptions of Barack Obama and negative perceptions of his opponents.

Two examples were the downplaying of Obama’s connections with the hate preacher Reverend Wright and the widespread ridicule of Sarah Palin. (at first stunned by Palin’s abilities, they later colluded in a plan to make her out as inexperienced and unprepared for the Vice Presidency).

I wrote a blog article here-

http://falfn.com/CrusaderRabbit/?p=669

but there is a more informative article here

http://www.dailyinterlake.com/opinion/columns/frank/article_22201864-977d-11df-9ea1-001cc4c03286.html

I’m sure you’ll find it all very interesting Mr. Edwards, given you’re in the trade and all. I really would like to know if anything similar is occurring in NZ media circles.
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July 27, 2010 11:06am
Redbaiter

Full context of above comment here-

http://brianedwardsmedia.co.nz/2010/07/tv3-news-returns-to-the-trough/comment-page-1/#comment-7746
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July 27, 2010 11:07am
RightNow

My only question RB is why you bother engaging with Edwards at all?
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July 27, 2010 11:23am
Jack5

New topic for a mo..

Centre-left commentator Rod Oram revealed on Radio NZ’s Labour Radio this morning that even he has qualms about the sale of control of Synlait, the South Island dairy processor, to Bright Milk, of China. Oram said the price agreed to was only 5 per cent higher than Synlait offered NZ investors last year. They turned up their noses. “Synlait was forced to sell majority control (to China)for only a slightly higher price.”

Oram said that from talks with industry folk, Synlait felt it could have got four-fifths of the China marketing aid for China wihout selling control and by using NZ capital.

“That’s how much we have given away,” Oram said.
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July 27, 2010 11:23am
Redbaiter

“My only question RB is why you bother engaging with Edwards at all?”

Haha, well, good question, but I really would like an answer to my own question (re a Journolist in NZ) and given that Mr. Edwards has always been a reasonably approachable person, I thought I might ask him.

Don’t you think its amazing that he knew nothing of this event??
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July 27, 2010 11:30am
Pete George

The Journolist Conspiracy Continues

The Daily Caller, a conservative website, has a new story claiming to have obtained evidence that Journolist was everything conservatives feared: the epicenter of a deep liberal plot to control media discourse. “It’s everything you may have suspected,” comments an excited Sarah Palin. “It is no less corrupt than the comically propagandistic Fox News and the lock-step orthodoxy on the partisan right in journalism – but it is nonetheless corrupt,” asserts Andrew Sullivan.

The story revolves around two email threads. I’ve reviewed them both, and it utterly belies the wild account in the Daily Caller and the even wilder reactions by Palin, Sullivan and the like.

Seems like something new for the birthers and the Palindrones to use to bolster their victimhood.
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July 27, 2010 11:44am
RightNow

I think the options are 1) that Edwards is outright lying or 2) that he gets his information from sources that only tell him what he wants to hear.
I see he’s responded to you, the link he posted would tend to confirm option 2 (but not exclusively)
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July 27, 2010 11:44am
RightNow

Pete, there’s a deeper issue behind the Journolist story: the MSM is predominantly staffed by lefties who are prepared to slant their coverage to give political advantage to Obama and the democrats.

Have you read any of the emails BTW?
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July 27, 2010 12:08pm
MikeNZ

RB
If he genuinely knew nothing of the event then he isn’t as connected as his image would indicate.
But why would you expect a lefty to tell someone he doesn’t know about a whole bunch of lefty Journo/media who massage/direct the message in the media.
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July 27, 2010 12:15pm
jinpy

“at first stunned by Palin’s abilities, they later colluded in a plan to make her out as inexperienced and unprepared for the Vice Presidency”

Hirarious! True gold…
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July 27, 2010 12:24pm
Viking2

IV2; Have no idea at all what Hayes has achieved but my point is that wealthy ex bankers appear to think that a shit load of money means you get an easy and gauranted access to a safe parliamentary seat.
Hardly different from being a union rep and getting a safe seat for Labour.
Forgetting the person and any possible talents that he may or may not have, whats the difference in process?

Are we destined to have a super class ruling us as opposed to the super city?

No problem with the person’s success in his previous and current endeavours but that doesn’t necessarily qualify him for Parliament. The question becomes, would he stand if he didn’t have the wealth and what would his thinking be in either situation.
We can of course point to Key’s ignoring of the smacking referendum. 84% who particpated voted for a law change only to be ignored.
Is this the atttiude you expect from now on from that ruling super group?

I’d suggest there will be a revolt in the National Party if the selection criteria is wealth and Power.
Politics is the contest of idea’s and implementation which grants the power.
Be careful when power gets concentrated.
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July 27, 2010 12:25pm
Viking2

Chris2;
Problem or Fact of Life?

“What is happening to our young people? They disrespect their elders, they disobey their parents. They ignore the law. They riot in the streets inflamed with wild notions. Their morals are decaying. What is to become of them?”

There is a widespread perception that today’s youth are more badly behaved than ever before. The fact is, however, that such concerns have always been with us. The above quote is attributed to Plato in 400 BC – and the following quote is an inscription on a 6,000-year-old Egyptian tomb: “We live in a decaying age. Young people no longer respect their parents. They are rude and impatient. They frequently inhabit taverns and have no self-control.”

To get a better idea of what is really going on with our young let’s have a look at some research.

http://www.nzcpr.com/weekly239.htm
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July 27, 2010 12:28pm
Pete George

Rich people are often familiar with using their monetary influence to get what they want. That’s not a criticism, just a fact of life. I’m not against a proportion of MPs having had proven success handling money and businesses, but yes, there would be a problem if there were to many like MPs.

But – maybe that’s the direction we are headed. If as DPF suggested recently someone standing for parliament needs to be unemployed for six months prior to do it justice, that may rule out a lot of those who are earning a living or running a business. Those who have already made their fortune, and those on a benefit, and those who have employers that allow them to do three things at once.
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July 27, 2010 12:41pm
Redbaiter

“Hirarious! True gold…”

It’s a fact you fucking illiterate fool. Read the emails.

How come when ever anyone presents a fact you commies do not like, you never have anything but feeble attempts at ridicule and patently false expressions of amusement? Fuck off. You can’t debate your views and you have never been able to and you never will. Just mindless recipients of socialist dogma and propaganda with nothing rational or truthful to add to any argument.
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July 27, 2010 12:45pm
RKBee

I support the non-vote being valid… as a vote of no confidence in the govt.
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July 27, 2010 12:49pm
cha

Oops.

“Will you tell those dumbasses at the Tea Party to stop asking questions about birth certificates while I’m on the camera,”
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July 27, 2010 12:50pm
RightNow

from the link Cha: “Asked about the comments on Sunday at a political rally in Adams County, Buck said he wishes he had used different language and that he had not lumped all Tea Party members into one statement, but that he remains frustrated that some people are focusing on birth certificates rather than the country’s $13 trillion debt and its $100 trillion in unfunded liabilities.”

I can see why he’s getting frustrated
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July 27, 2010 12:56pm
Put it away

Viking2 – and how long did Athens last as relevent, indepedent power after that statement ?
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July 27, 2010 12:59pm
Pete George

(at first stunned by Palin’s abilities, they later colluded in a plan to make her out as inexperienced and unprepared for the Vice Presidency)

That is being claimed as a fact?

Actually “at first stunned by Palin’s abilities” could be have some truth in, but not necessarily in a positive sense.

Everyone who stands for the Vice Presidency is inexperienced and unprepared (unless they have done it before). Especially anyone who has had little to do with Federal government.

Even her own McCain campaign team acknowledged she was unprepared. Were they journolistos too?

The latest Gallup has her top of the GOP potentials for favourable (just, 44%) and unfavourable (clearly, 47%).
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July 27, 2010 1:03pm
MikeNZ

To change the topic a mo.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/blogs/the-girls-guide/3956092/When-love-doesn-t-turn-into-marriage

What is it with some in this generation, they bemoan the fact that the guy they’re shacked up with doesn’t want to marry them and they get sad and jealous when their mates get engaged or pregnant?

The journo
is as clueless as the commentators.I don’t have any answers today – I’m not even sure there are any answers to a dilemma like this.

Yeah, well I’ve got a clue!
How about do screw him until you know him, maybe?
Old fashioned courtship was so that two people could see if they had a life fit and they were happy that their intended had the character and values they deserved.
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July 27, 2010 1:05pm
Redbaiter

Ooops, more days old irrelevancies from Mr. Think I’m So Smart Cha.
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July 27, 2010 1:07pm
Manolo

Do as I say, not as I do.
The Messiah’s family leading by example: http://michellemalkin.com/2010/07/26/the-obamas-prove/
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July 27, 2010 1:10pm
Redbaiter

“That is being claimed as a fact?”

That is what the emails among the journolist participants said yes.

“Actually “at first stunned by Palin’s abilities” could be have some truth in, but not necessarily in a positive sense.”

It was in a positive sense. If you got off your useless arse and looked up the emails you would see that. As it is, all of your impressions, and the comments you post and have posted here are products of Journolist’s disinformation campaign. How does it feel to be so completely duped you sad know nothing mungbean?? What a sorry sucker.
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July 27, 2010 1:11pm
Pete George

Mike, the old fashioned way had it’s flaws too – there was a lot of pot luck leaving home for the first time to start married life. Snogging on Saturday night is quite different to 24/7 co-habitation.

But I think it has gone too far the other way, it’s too easy to drift in and out of relationships. There used to be a strong incentive to get married, to be able to have all the sex you wanted secretively, now the guys in particular get what they want without any commitment.

I don’t see any easy solution.
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July 27, 2010 1:13pm
Redbaiter

“Even her own McCain campaign team acknowledged she was unprepared. Were they journolistos too?”

Maybe not, but they were fuckwits. Why they lost.
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July 27, 2010 1:13pm
Pete George

RB, I wasn’t duped by Palin the first time round, and I’ll wait and see whether she has learned enough by the time she stands – if she stands. Who’s to know whether she will run half a campaign, and if she get’s elected she lasts two years before she bails out to avoid the dead fish.

Maybe not, but they were fuckwits.

One of the McCain team was anyway. McCain wasn’t so sharp himself or he would have had the balls to pick an electable running mate. Instead he tried to pander to the right and lost the middle.
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July 27, 2010 1:17pm
Ed Snack

Cha, that’s another good story plant, see, all these “teabaggers” (please ignore obscene reference, the left don’t really mean it, surely) are “birthers”. Hey, loony, crazy redneck old coots !

Birtherism is rarely a feature at any Tea Party event in the USA. Some people insist on raising it, but it just don’t register with most. Except, except, when there’s a good liberal smear story making the rounds. It’s either birthers or racism.

This sort of story is behind my belief on the whole story. The President hasn’t (yet) actually proven beyond doubt about his birth in Hawaii, very, very briefly the short form that has been made available confirms that he has a legitimate Hawaiian birth certificate, however in 1960 one could obtain such WITHOUT having been born in Hawaii. However, for what it’s worth I reckon that definite proof does exist (and that he was born in Hawaii), it’s not released because it keeps these stories going, and it’s a useful tool to frame his opponents as being racist, loons, rednecks, etc etc, take your pick. It’s a strategy that fits well with the low road “Chicago way” that Obama cut his political teeth on.

Let’s go the other way and refer to those lying sack of….. Democratic congressmen who claimed to have been racially abused while walking between buildings during the health care debate. How about some coverage and consideration of that. These guys claim and it is widely, very widely reported, and yet in all the videos and other eye witness testimony, nobody else heard anything of the sort. Where are the stories on that smear tactic, it should backfire in a big way when you lie about such things, but it’s a good bet when you know that the MSM will only report the smear, not the lack of evidence behind the smear.
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July 27, 2010 1:25pm
MT_Tinman

# RKBee (1,105) Says:
July 27th, 2010 at 12:49 pm

I support the non-vote being valid… as a vote of no confidence in the govt.

The deliberate non-vote is valid but as a vote of no confidence in ALL parties, not just the current lot.

For instance the choice between Side-show Bob and dementia Jim will see me not vote.
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July 27, 2010 1:26pm
Redbaiter

“RB, I wasn’t duped by Palin”

Jesus H Christ on a bike…!!! When are you going to take that comprehension course?

You were duped by the journolisters you dickwad. Everything you write here conforms with the strategies they have outlined in their now exposed discussions, and a number of the listers were prominent at the Washington Post, one of your favourite propaganda sheets. You were duped and duped good by lying partisan fake journalists who plotted how to fool you on Journolist.
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July 27, 2010 1:30pm
Pete George

Were the Journolistos right through Fox? Did they pull the strings and do the ventriloquism in her interviews and her debate? Did they give her elocution lessons? Did they put up a poster of Russia outside her house? Did they parade her family? Did they plant the dead fish? Did they make her join the Alaska Independence Party is that where she learned about patriotism)?

Of course no one could dupe you RB. Not even Orly Taitz. Or Limbaugh, or Beck, or Malkin. Or Palin. Or Clint.
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July 27, 2010 1:45pm
RightNow

Did they put up a poster of Russia outside her house?

WTF Pete? What has that got to do with anything? Tina Fey…
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July 27, 2010 1:49pm
grumpyoldhori

Gentlemen, the dog’s bollix.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sngAEbtEAlg&feature=related
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July 27, 2010 1:51pm
cabbage

This is what happens when unions and industrial relations legislation make it uneconomical to do business in a given country:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/3961624/Qantas-Jetconnect-a-sham-company

Australia’s pilots are taking on Qantas in court today, alleging that the airline set up Jetconnect in New Zealand to avoid Australian pay obligations and reduce wages.

The Australian and International Pilots Association claims the Qantas-owned subsidiary Jetconnect is a ”sham company” set up by Qantas for the sole purpose of avoiding its obligations under the award, and the employment agreement it has with Qantas pilots.

Having initially been set up to undertake domestic flights within New Zealand, last June Qantas quietly gave Jetconnect responsibility for 133 flights a week between Australia and New Zealand.

The pilots say Jetconnect is effectively an operating division of Qantas – the New Zealander pilots wear Qantas uniforms, have Qantas staff numbers, and fly Qantas aircraft which travel routes determined by Qantas.

But the conditions of employment at Jetconnect are significantly inferior to those at Qantas.

Pilots are paid up to 33 per cent less and do not receive the same superannuation entitlements.

They skip town to somewhere a bit cheaper.
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July 27, 2010 1:55pm
Redbaiter

“Did they put up a poster of Russia outside her house?”

He’s so full of shit from Journolist he actually believes she said it. Like millions more of his gormless dull as dishwater ilk.
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July 27, 2010 1:56pm
Pete George

That’s a wee duping RightNow, or more accurately a bit of a dig. In case you are not aware, she actually said:

“They’re our next-door neighbors, and you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska, from an island in Alaska.”

That was when asked what insight she had gained from living so close to Russia. So no, she hadn’t even seen Russia, she just said it was possible to see it from part of Alaska.

It didn’t dupe many people into believing she knew much about foreign affairs.

And in case you missed it, some more of what she actually said:

When CBS News anchor Katie Couric asked how Alaska’s closeness to Russia enhanced her foreign policy experience, Palin said, “Well, it certainly does because our next-door neighbors are foreign countries.”

“It’s very important when you consider even national security issues with Russia as Putin rears his head and comes into the air space of the United States of America, where – where do they go? It’s Alaska. It’s just right over the border.”
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July 27, 2010 2:02pm
RightNow

So Pete, did you have to google that after the fact or were you intentionally being disingenuous with your “poster of Russia” comment?
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July 27, 2010 2:16pm
Pete George

I knew the full story, who doesn’t? I’d seen the interviews (and Saturday night live). I just made up the poster bit, you know, a gentle joke. Making fun of some seriously sad lack of nous. What she actually said is hardly any better.

And to remember how she managed in a friendly interview:

Exclusive: Gov. Palin on ‘Hannity & Colmes,’

HANNITY: Do you see media bias in this campaign?

PALIN: I don’t know. But a conservative candidate has got to know what they’re getting themselves into in the world that we are in today. And, you know, I knew putting my name on the dotted line there saying, yes, I’m willing to serve. I knew what I was getting into. You can’t whine about it. That doesn’t do any good. And you’ve got to grow thick skin.

I was telling a couple of our campaign people the other day. I said, you see this? You think this is just baby fat, right, from having Trig four months ago. No, it’s some thick skin in there also.

Read the whole transcript and see if you can get an inkling of why she didn’t set Washington on fire. Palin was always good in front of a friendly crowd. I hope she has brushed up on her knowledge and on her interviewing.
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July 27, 2010 2:19pm
grumpyoldhori

cabbage hell it’s even better in the USA your reich winger mates over there prefer to load their kids on aircraft piloted by those on food stamps.
They believe pilots with the ability and experience of Sully Sullenberger are not needed, just fly the aircraft by the book and if it does not make the airfield because all the engines are out that is the price they are prepared to pay to save ten bucks.
Sick fucks
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July 27, 2010 2:22pm
Redbaiter

“So Pete, did you have to google that after the fact or were you intentionally being disingenuous with your “poster of Russia” comment?”

He believed it. He’s got nothing other than the falsities that Journolist has fed him. His whole political worldview on Palin or anyone is a product of their misinformation campaign. He has been totally manipulated and he still doesn’t get it. Why not? Because he’s thick as three short planks, as you’d have to be to sucked in so completely by a cadre of Progressive frauds posing as journalists.
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July 27, 2010 2:25pm
Ed Snack

Pete, from the original context, Palin is responding in part to the Tina Fey piece, you see there were a large number of ignorant liberals who thought it was really, really funny because of course you couldn’t see Russia from Alaska. Actually, you really can, Big (Russian) and Little (US) Diomede islands are about 3 km apart in the Bering Strait. The border was defined as being equidistant from both and continuing North & South.

And of course Palin had essentially zero foreign policy experience, more or less exactly the same as Barack Obama had. Only she did have a year or more executive experience, and just that much more than one B.H. Obama could claim. Your point is …?
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July 27, 2010 2:27pm
Pete George

a cadre of Progressive frauds posing as journalists.

Hannity?

Rightnow, read the Hannity transcript and then tell me if that would give you confidence in her capability as VP or POTUS.

Ed, I’m well aware you can see Russia from part of Alaska. My point is that Palin was not a good candidate. A worse bet than Obama.
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July 27, 2010 2:27pm
andrei

Pete George – how far apart do you think the western most part of Alaska and the Eastern most part of Russia are?

In fact there are two Islands in the Bering sea, Big Diomede and little Diomede the former being Russian and the latter being American. They are 2½ miles apart.

Which is not very much.

Now Sarah Palin will be a player in American politics for the next elections, just what role she will play remains to be seen but what I don’t get is why you a New Zealander sit at your PC from dawn to dusk posting anti Palin talking points.

Haven’t you got anything better to think about?
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July 27, 2010 2:27pm
Falafulu Fisi

Pete George is the new Phi U here on Kiwiblog, without the commas and the dots.
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July 27, 2010 2:28pm
grumpyoldhori

Pete George come on, I’m looking forward to those dumb yanks making Palin president.
What was she going to do first, oh yes, use the US military to throw the Russians out of Georgia, she will get a surprise when the Russians use tactical nukes on the US invasion forces in Georgia.
Would she be dumb enough to order Moscow nuked ? 🙂
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July 27, 2010 2:28pm
grumpyoldhori

andrei , fuck, another who believes the 21 century bard has got the intellectual firepower and education of Baroness Thatcher.
What did the Baroness say about Conrad Black, oh yes, a provincial hick, suits Palin as well does it not ?
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July 27, 2010 2:34pm
Pete George

Andrei, RB introduced Palin into this discussion. Remember? At 11.06 he posted this talking point:

…the widespread ridicule of Sarah Palin. (at first stunned by Palin’s abilities, they later colluded in a plan to make her out as inexperienced and unprepared for the Vice Presidency).

Not sure how much dupe and how much dope in that statement.

I agree Palin will play some sort of role in the next election. As I said above, I hope she has improved her knowledge and interview presentation, otherwise her role will be mosty as a crowd teaser.

Falafulu Fisi, I enjoyed your post on maths tuition, but I hope you don’t keep trying to close their minds to science. The climate will be a major science over the next decades, it’s just a matter of what direction it points to.
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July 27, 2010 2:36pm
Manolo

“I’m looking forward to those dumb yanks..”

Your anti-Americanism is palpable.

Please do not forget the role of the United States in history and thank the Yanks for that, otherwise you’d be speaking Japanese and your people would have no Treaty of Waitangi and some other fictional claims to live on.

Let the United States of America choose its President. Nothing we say or do here in our remote location will alter the course of history.
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July 27, 2010 2:38pm
RightNow

Pete, frankly I’m not keen to be drawn into a debate on how smart Palin is or isn’t. I think that’s somewhat irrelevant at the moment. Like many I was initially dismissive when she appeared as VP candidate, but given the reaction from the left I had to reconsider that stance. She really scared the liberal media, and I think many did (and still do) under-estimate her.
But, to answer the question, I don’t think she is a viable POTUS.
Probably make a better VP than Gore though.
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July 27, 2010 2:39pm
calendar girl

IV2: “And I’ve just blogged about Anderton – can you believe that Jim is accusing Bob Parker of double-dipping – talks about pots and kettles!!!”

Anderton is a conspicuous double-dipper by any standard, recipient of a parliamentary salary + expenses (formerly the salary + expenses of a Minister before the Labour coalition was ousted), while also attracting Leader’s funding for his sham one-man-band “Party”. But does it go further? Does anyone know whether – on top of that lot – Anderton also draws NZ Superannuation?
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July 27, 2010 2:41pm
Redbaiter

“My point is that Palin was not a good candidate. A worse bet than Obama.”

You never get the point Pete, that fact being most obviously on display here when you present us with your opinions such as the above. Do you really think we need a fucking smug extreme left uninformed crosswired loon like you telling us who we should elect? Its a measure of your unending dullness that you would even presume to do such a stupid thing.
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July 27, 2010 2:44pm
Pete George

RightNow, I agree that it’s not really relevant how smart she is, what is relevant is what sort of influence she will be, and what smarts are behind her. She has achieved quite a bit herself, but she won’t get further without a lot of support and manipulation (no candidate does).

RB, I was commenting on something from history, not recommending a vote. And “we” don’t elect Obama or Palin. We can’t even see the US from Tauranga.
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July 27, 2010 2:46pm
Andrew W

I noticed on Shortland Street, (the Mrs watches it) they’re running a story about a young woman named Sophie who has dumped her bf (a university lecturer with a posh name), who is now stalking her.
Here’s hoping the producers don’t have such bad taste (as if the storyline so far isn’t) as to follow real life the last gristly scene.
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July 27, 2010 2:48pm
Angus

“You never get the point Pete..”

He’s a commie. And like Luc Hansen, all remnants of any logic and reason-based calculating power they may once have possessed has been supplanted by delusional feelings-based assertions and fantasy driven denial. It is why they’re both constantly whining and equivocating.
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July 27, 2010 2:48pm
Redbaiter

“what I don’t get is why you a New Zealander sit at your PC from dawn to dusk posting anti Palin talking points.”

He’s desperately frightened of her. Terrified in fact, like all Progressives.

He fears that if she is elected the trend will spin out to NZ. Guess what? It will Pete, and the more gormless morons like you lie and smear, the more likely it is to happen. If you weren’t such a navel gazing misinformed and desperate dumbfuck, you’d realise that.
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July 27, 2010 2:49pm
Redbaiter

“We can’t even see the US from Tauranga.”

You’re such a contemptible smug mush brained fuckwit Pete. Wrong about everything and with no idea about fuck all.

“I was commenting on something from history,”

You were expressing an opinion. One generated from the misinformation of the journolisters.
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July 27, 2010 2:51pm
grumpyoldhori

Manolo bullshit, like other septic lovers you believe the yanks stopped the Japs on the Kokoda trail, it was the Aussies who did that.
As much as dugout doug preached otherwise, remember him, got the MoH for running away and leaving his men.
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July 27, 2010 2:51pm
RKBee

RB… But you can smell the uranium from here.
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July 27, 2010 2:56pm
Pete George

Angus joins the Redbaiter tag team in self parody, presumably equally as unaware.

Oh yes, scared of Palin’s under the bed. 🙂
The slicks will probably prevail and her trend will likely spin out in the US, she’s too big a risk – strong support but not enough (yet), and strong opposition.

RB, will your next 10k posts be telling everyone that only you know the truth because everyone else has been hoodwinked by the journolistos? No wonder you sidle up to radical Christians, they use a similar devil argument.
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July 27, 2010 2:58pm
RKBee

grumpyoldhori … you phuckwit the yanks stop the Japs fool stop…
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July 27, 2010 3:00pm
Manolo

Grumpy, obviously world history is not your strong point, while your attempt to rewrite history deserves to be ignored.
You’re in the “excellent” company of Minto, Locke, Bradford, and Clark as the worst exponents of US-loathing.

“Debate” closed.
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July 27, 2010 3:02pm
grumpyoldhori

RKBee Hmm was that when they were still trading with the Nazis and sending a shipload of Jews back to Germany knowing they would be gassed ?
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July 27, 2010 3:05pm
Redbaiter

“she’s too big a risk – strong support but not enough (yet), and strong opposition.”

Once again- why do you think people care for your opinion on such matters? You’re a screaming extreme left commie. Uninformed. Crosswired. Bigoted. Out of touch. A dinosaur. Why the fuck would anyone want to hear your views on Sarah Palin? (or anyone for that matter) Its a measure of either your cluelessness of your insanity that you seem unable to grasp that point, and keep posting such inanities (in the utterly absurd delusion that they are “history”.. pffft, what a deranged loser).
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July 27, 2010 3:09pm
Pete George

All you’ve been doing is hissy fitting, for how many posts? Aren’t you supposed to be the fearless baiter?
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July 27, 2010 3:17pm
Redbaiter

“All you’ve been doing is hissy fitting,”

Not at all, I’m merely pointing out one of your frequent idiocies- assuming that people are somehow impressed by hearing what opinions you as a far left uninformed communist propagandist might hold on non left politicians. Telling us who we should select and who is electable. For fucks sake get a life. That you would think your opinions on such issues are worth posting here suggests a serious disconnect with reality. Pointing that out is what I am doing. It doesn’t need a hissy fit.
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July 27, 2010 3:22pm
Pete George

Funny thing is, Kris keeps criticising me for not expressing opinions. I’d have thought you fellow fundies would at least get your attack strategies in synch. Don’t expect God to do it. You have to stay united or you’ll never overcome the 99% left.
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July 27, 2010 3:42pm
RKBee

grumpyoldhori @ 3:05 pm
RKBee Hmm was that when they were still trading with the Nazis and sending a shipload of Jews back to Germany knowing they would be gassed ?

grump… New Zealand also traded with the Nazi.. wool for their uniforms… whats your point.

We still owe the yanks big time for saving NZ and Australia from Jap invasion… but they later helped finance the japs to invade us later with cheap imports… Now the yanks the japs and just about everybody else is helping china conquer the world.
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July 27, 2010 4:22pm
MikeNZ

Hey Grumpy

I guess the Turks have given up on joining the EU then?
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/611b301e-97d5-11df-b218-00144feab49a,Authorised=false.html?_i_location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fcms%2Fs%2F0%2F611b301e-97d5-11df-b218-00144feab49a.html&_i_referer=

which is just as well as Russia Iran doesn’t appear to be going well.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-10684110

Unless it’s all a bluff.
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July 27, 2010 4:38pm
Steve

This is how you run a blog, your comments are only moderated by MPs.

http://blog.labour.org.nz/index.php/2010/07/27/a-note-on-moderation/#comments

Moderation my arse, it is censorship if you disagree
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July 27, 2010 5:50pm
tom hunter

When the right talks of media bias it’s assumed that they are talking about journalists being in the tank for the Democrats in the US, or Labour and the Greens here, or more likely for a candidate with whom they’ve fallen in love – Helen Clarke in ’99, Obama in 08/09.

As a result, the criticisms are often deflected with claims that said journalists can be very hard on their own side. To a certain extent this is true as the history of the left is filled with Menshevik-vs-Bolshevik cage matches.

But bias via outright lies is almost non-existent (almost), as such things can be pinned down. Prior to Obama there was some holding back on being too gushy about any candidate, for similar reasons. The real point of the accusation of bias has to do less with what is written about by journalists than what they refuse to write about – in literature terms, maintaining the chosen narrative by ignoring an alternative one.

So I’m still waiting for the SDL skit that will run through all of Obama’s mind-numbingly stupid answers and comments, and more importantly to have them repeated in many, small casual media snippets, finally feeding into everyday conversations, along with rolling eyes and shaking heads as the stupidity is mocked.

I waited to see if the WaPo would print as many articles over a couple of months about Joe Biden’s comments on the clean and articulate Obama, or Harry Reid’s similar brain explosions, as they did over Senator Allen’s “Maccaca” throwaway, a relentlessly pursued storyline that contributed much to his narrow defeat in 2006.

But the real trick is to make the narrative circular – reinforcing it by simply saying that an alternative storyline has not been found in the MSM, only in “right-wing sources”, thereby implying or arguing outright that it must have no merit.
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July 27, 2010 6:04pm
WebWrat

Is Pete George really as thick as he seems?

I hope we never have to go to war … wont know whether to face the front of the trench or the back.
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July 27, 2010 7:02pm
Redbaiter

“Moderation my arse, it is censorship if you disagree”

Banned. I’m just running a warm bath and unwrapping the razor blades.
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July 27, 2010 7:09pm
Pete George

Tom, to show that you are not here simply to disrupt the thread with questions you could answer yourself, you can go through the links I provided and do a bit of Googling.

SNL Vs. Obama: Sketch Details All The President’s Failures Since Taking Office

‘Saturday Night Live’ scorches Obama policies

Saturday Night Live – Obama Address

An Inarticulate Kickoff

Biden Stumbles at the Starting Gate
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July 27, 2010 7:15pm
grumpyoldhori

Traded with Germany after September 39, no we did not, the yanks did though as they were driving that ship out of USA waters.
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July 27, 2010 7:18pm

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