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July 1, 2010 8:00am by David Farrar

General Debate 1 July 2010

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General Debate

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lastmanstanding

the ETS is reason 1746 why political parties are bad for democracy. One poster has pointed out that their MP is muzzled by the so called collective responsibility excuse.

This is merely a tactic to block whistle blowing and it used in many organisations as just that.

If we had independent MP as was the case in England in the 17/18 Century who were elected by the local citizens to represent the local citizens the ETS and the other nutbar schemes that our Parliament has legalised would never get off the ground.

Worse of course is the dreaded LIST where some dont even have to worry about the pesky citizens voting for them.

What we are seeing with the Socialists and now the Nats is a deliberate one finger salute to the citizens by the bunch of self interested arrogant conceited individuals who think they know better than their employees.

We need to tell them to get into line or their heads will be impaled on the railings to show an example.
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July 1, 2010 11:41am
Manolo

Should I suggest to DPF, the blog’s host, a separate ETS thread? 🙂
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July 1, 2010 11:44am
lastmanstanding

wreck1080 Some of us whilst traditionally supporting the so called RIGHT are also Freedom Fighters and as such we will speak up and speak against any party or MP who attempts to deprive us of our Freedom.

In the case of the ETS its our financial freedom to spend the money we earn as we see fit NOT to have a theiving bunch of bastards raiding our hip pockets to indulge in their own get rich schemes.
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July 1, 2010 11:45am
mattyroo

They should’ve got the money upfront, before proceeding with the operation.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/3873934/DHB-seeks-28-000-for-removing-heroin

Pity the cu*t wasn’t caught in Singapore, where he departed from.
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July 1, 2010 11:50am
Fale Andrew Lesa

Oh dear, Manukau City Councillor’s Dick Quax and Jami-Lee Ross have just been ousted as two of “the Manukau City Council’s top three councillors for claiming reimbursement”. Jami-Lee Ross claimed $2.00 at one point.

These are the two councillors that were most vocal during the Len Brown Saga, now it seems the rats are jumping ship?

Politicians are all the same to me, regardless of political identity. They lie, cheat, sensationalise, twist and deny the truth.

At this point I have no faith in any of them for the Super City Elections, they’re all lost causes in my book.

😀

Heading over-seas is very credible right now.
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July 1, 2010 11:56am
Redbaiter

I would say there should be some investigation done into what connections (if any) of any kind exist between Weyerhauser and Nick Smith.
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July 1, 2010 12:03pm
krazykiwi

Saw Key on Campbell Live last night.

My wife commented he’s not looking well.

Work pressure does that.

So does too much lying.
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July 1, 2010 12:15pm
MikeNZ

The problem I have is that I cannot vote for ACT as long as that trougher Rodney Hide is the leader.
Bb I understand your position.

Hide did apologise and I think he gets it now, that he may have damaged himself too badly maybe true.
however I gave my party vote to ACT last time because I knew National need hand holding for what they were elected to do.

They were elected to undo Labour’s crap (incl social engineering) and give NZ a chance against the other economies they compete with.
have they?
No.

I didn’t think they would, Key is smarmy to me and whilst I may appreciate his background and talents he is still smarmy.
At least ACT have been and are clear on the ETS.

For that alone I think you should undo the manacles you’ve put on and give ACT your party vote next time.
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July 1, 2010 12:21pm
Rick Rowling

On no, here we go again. I’ll apologise for shouting, but there are some thick heads to get this through:

WEATHER =/= CLIMATE

(=/= means does not equal).

There, that wasn’t hard, was it?
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July 1, 2010 12:22pm
Lance

Agree with Manolo

Lots of angry spleen venting here, ETS deep seated anger and resentment is about as entertaining as Phools drivel.
Plus I think is has been mentioned before?
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July 1, 2010 12:27pm
MikeNZ

Red
I’d like to see that brought out into the open if there is any substance to it.
The ETS is criminal, in that it is poor science being politisied and that’s been shown as the case.
Common sense would say, not to commit we need to look at the players and the info in light of what has been brought up.
As if it is overplayed we should not force our economy to be shackled for something that isn’t true or correct.

That the worlds economy could fall over and certainly parts of it still could, behooves our pollies to actually take that into consideration first. We are a minnow and will have to float as we can (thank god for Australia as a shield for some of the backwash that might eventuate). I love the lying from Key and others as it is showing their true character on this.

If Stephen Franks (or someone like him) could be the leader of ACT I would support them more fully as natioanl isn’t being National, they are Labour lite and the new intake look like they have no backbone.
On this issue I would cross the floor, but none have.
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July 1, 2010 12:28pm
krazykiwi

I would say there should be some investigation done into what connections (if any) of any kind exist between Weyerhauser and Nick Smith.

Or even with Global Forest Partners. Weyerhauser sold their Nelson forestry assets to GFP back in 2007.
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July 1, 2010 12:28pm
MikeNZ

Lance
so what issues are more important than the ETS right now?
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July 1, 2010 12:30pm
krazykiwi

Lance, I get angry when people lie to my face and steal from me. You’re ok with that.. lest any objections should cast you as an angry spleen venter?
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July 1, 2010 12:31pm
Manolo

Lance, is the word sarcasm lost on you? 🙂

I agree witk KK: Not complaining about the ETS is like letting the government get its sticky fingers in your pocket and remaining silent. The ETS is a new tax and must be denounced as such.
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July 1, 2010 12:36pm
Lance

What I am saying is this should have it’s own thread.

Also I have discussed ETS again and again and again and again, there there is nothing left but “cursing the wind”.
So I think it should have it’s own thread for those still passionate about it.
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July 1, 2010 12:43pm
Yvette

Viking2 (yesterday) commented, quoting John Boscowan –
GD, June 30th, 2010 at 7:34 pm
Misleading Statement 3 New Zealand is not leading the world with our ETS, because 29 other countries have one.
The Truth The New Zealand ETS is a single country scheme; no other country in the world has a single country scheme.

This morning on Radio Live, Michael Laws, was talking about New Zealand paying developing countries as part of ETS transactions, chortling at naive politically correct crap from some Government source – along the lines of it being a global problem and the money we pay to other countries is our part in looking after the whole earth’s well-fare.

So is the New Zealand ETS is a single country scheme, or is there trading with other countries.
Is politician John Boscowan correct or Michael Laws, who as a talk-back host should not be disseminating misinformation?
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July 1, 2010 12:49pm
Pete George

There there is nothing left but “cursing the wind”

There’s been a foul wind today.

But yeah, it does seem to be a lot of repeats. Does the wider public really give a toss?
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July 1, 2010 12:49pm
lastmanstanding

As my late Dad said With poliies Always follow the money. See who benefits from their policies.

In this case owners of forests. Now ask your self Who owns the forests? More particularly which ethnic group owns thru its collective structures large forests.

Ahhh!!! A connection Could it be that……………………………….. no not possible?
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July 1, 2010 12:53pm
Viking2

Clinth; can you post the vidoe of Rodney yesterday?

BB; sometimes you need to do an English and swallow the odd rat dead or alive. If you let it die it will be no bigger than a mouse and easy to swallow. Your anger should be directed at those stealing our furture for we cannot change the past. It is what it was, (except for the Maori of course, forgot about them).

Mattyro; KK,: As long as whipping remains and the parties hold the money No MP who wants to stay will speak out. The last one to do so in the National Party was Dereyk Quiggley and Muldoon fired him. Quigley then of course teamed up with Prebble and Douglas to start ACT.

Manalo. what was said at the meeting in Wgtn lat Night? Anything of substance?
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July 1, 2010 12:59pm
bhudson

@exaybachay

“Must just be a place for projected hate then. You so we all know.”

Given you put so much thought into the post, what exactly are YOU doing to help Phil? Are you going to offer him a job? Are you going to recommend or sponsor him to an employer?

Or are you going to continue to do that which the left is sooo good at – blaming everyone else for any and all problems and expecting everyone else to take action while you spout ideologically biased criticism (but otherwise do 5/8’s of Sweet Fanny Adams)?

Apologies ALL – not really a question at all is it…
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July 1, 2010 1:16pm
nickb

Good one National!!

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10655665

The first of many successful NZ companies built by sweat and hard work to be destroyed by the ETS.

I wonder how the 13 staff made redundant would feel to have their fears dismissed airily with a “it’s complicated”
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July 1, 2010 1:24pm
Rex Widerstrom

Manolo suggests:

Should I suggest to DPF, the blog’s host, a separate ETS thread?

Silly Manolo. National Party operatives don’t give a flying **** what the majority of people want, or we wouldn’t have an ETS to begin with 😛

Our job is bark on cue when a nice distracting bone is thrown our way, like “should we take the ciggies away from those horrible criminal scumbags?”. You know, the kind of non-issues which serve to divide us all further and, at the end of the day, are full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

Meanwhile the real stuff goes on at a whole ‘nother level.

medusa points out:

we were f****d either way, did we vote for the lezzo Street (labour) or mad nick? easy for you, you don’t actually LIVE in Nelson.

But would you (by which I mean Nelsonians, not you personally medusa) have had the guts to vote for an independent, I wonder? One who said s/he’d poll you (properly, using the Electoral Roll) on an issue like an ETS, and vote as you, the electors, wished?

Or, standing in the polling booth, would you have thought “I want to be rid of that dictator Clark and the only sure way to do it is Smith” or alternatively “I don’t want that slippery Key and the only way to ensure he doesn’t get in is Street”. Because I’m betting that’s exactly what you (again, Nelsonians) would have done even if offered an independent voice.
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July 1, 2010 1:26pm
nickb

In breaking news, petrol prices are up:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/3873271/Petrol-prices-rise-as-ETS-starts-to-bite

Shell and Caltex both hiked petrol prices by 3c a litre today, Radio New Zealand has reported. Shell also raised its diesel price by 3c a litre, while Caltex increased its diesel price by 4c a litre.
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July 1, 2010 1:28pm
voice of reason

“nickb (1290) Says:
July 1st, 2010 at 1:24 pm
Good one National!!
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10655665
The first of many successful NZ companies built by sweat and hard work to be destroyed by the ETS.”

Not to defend the ETS, but apparently that company has been around since 1972. It would have had far more hurdles to jump than ETS in that time.
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July 1, 2010 1:36pm
nickb

The director himself has blamed it.

Founder and executive director Ron Greer said the company had survived the domestic industrial downturn and held its own in the specialist aerospace aerosol market but would not survive the ETS if it stayed in New Zealand.
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July 1, 2010 1:37pm
Rex Widerstrom

Yvette asks:

Is politician John Boscowan correct or Michael Laws, who as a talk-back host should not be disseminating misinformation?

Surely you jest?

Boscawen: came into Parliament having come to the public’s attention by standing behind his principles. Has consistently espoused those principles and done what he can as a backbencher to advance them. Has shown independence and courage in exposing Smith’s hokum on an ETS despite his party relying on an agreement with National to be seen as politically viable by many.

Laws: Forced to resign from Parliament after lying to it (and getting Winston to lie to it on his behalf, knowingly or unknowingly I don’t know) about the use of a polling company, owned by his then wife and paid with public money, to run a poll to ascertain how popular he was in Hawkes Bay and what he needed to say to remain popular.

Any more questions?
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July 1, 2010 1:38pm
Pete George

When companies cease to operate it’s not uncommon for owners to cite some topical cause. Sounds better than “I ran out of steam” or “I ran out of money”.
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July 1, 2010 1:41pm
philu

“..Phool you subject your dogs to unnatural cruelty by refusing to let them eat meat,..”

one of our dogs is 11 yrs old…

she looks/acts/moves/runs…like a puppy/young dog…

her coat is so shiny..you almost need shades….

then there is her blissed out/sweet-breathed/mellow nature…

when i meet/talk with other dog-carers..(as ya do..)

they are always amazed that she looks/acts the way she does….for her age…

it then blows their minds when i tell them she is vegan…has been for 11 years…

the proof is in the viewing..

and you are just displaying your ignorance…

and if you google ‘vegan dogs’..you will find picture galleries of vegan dogs in similar conditions to ours…

and what actually is in that dog food..?…(shudder..!..)

http://whoar.co.nz/2007/do-you-know-what-is-in-that-pet-foodoo-err/

“..Consider that checkerboard classic, Purina Dog Chow.

Ingredient No. 1 is ground corn, followed by poultry byproduct meal, animal fat and corn gluten.

Purina Cat Chow is similar, with poultry byproduct, corn meal and corn gluten taking the top three spots on the ingredient list.

Real meats like chicken, beef or lamb are nowhere to be found.

“There aren’t enough high-quality ingredients to make all the pet food sold in this country,” Hofve says. “Somebody is using the crap.”

Traditionally, much of the protein in pet food comes from animal byproducts.

The pet food industry nicely parallels the human agricultural industry, providing a convenient way for food producers to use up the spleens and bones and chicken feet that American consumers don’t have the palate for.

Even diseased and dying animals are allowed in pet food, as long as they’re processed in such a way to destroy any microorganisms, Syverson says.

All of those myriad pieces and parts end up as appetizing ingredients like “poultry byproduct meal,” “meat-and-bone meal,” and “animal digests.”

Pet food is also a handy way for meat processors to get rid of brains and spines from cows and sheep —

– the parts with a high risk of housing prions, the rogue proteins that cause bovine spongiform encephalopathy, or mad cow disease.

While such parts are banned from human foods and from animal feed intended for cows and other ruminants..

..they’re A-OK for the family pet..”

and..i make this stuff for the dogs called seitan…(once again..google..)

seitan has seven times the protein of meat…

and even the mention of it…

has the dogs going ballistic…

basically…you don’t know shit..!..eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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July 1, 2010 1:43pm
Redbaiter

You people responding in any way to that NPD sufferer Ure need your heads examined.
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July 1, 2010 1:50pm
Sonny Blount

When companies cease to operate it’s not uncommon for owners to cite some topical cause. Sounds better than “I ran out of steam” or “I ran out of money”.

Much like the dole bludgers who blame the market or their ex-bosses for their unemployability.
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July 1, 2010 1:53pm
philu

red red…!…the commies are in parliament..!

vietnamese ones….!

..’in the chamber..!’

they finally got here…!

all those red scare/domino-theories were right..!

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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July 1, 2010 2:03pm
Put it away

Phool you don’t have to use lowest-common-denominator tinned petfood if you don’t like it, you can get actual cuts of meat. My other half’s dog gets it’s own little plate of cheap meat cooked up every day and loves it. Hilariously, your drug addled mind fails to grasp the irony that you are trying to defend not feeding your dogs meat, by quoting someone who is complaining that tinned petfood doesn’t have enough meat in it…
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July 1, 2010 2:13pm
Manolo

“What was said at the meeting in Wgtn lat Night? Anything of substance?”

100+ people in attendance. Smith made a poor case (again) in defense of the new tax. ETS apologists will disagree, of course. I understand he has a few more meetings scheduled throughout the country, which will be a mere formality.

He’s made up his mind, conned Key and the rest of his National Party accomplices and eunuchs. Unfortunately, we will pay for his folly.

NZ is doomed if we allow to be led by such an incompetent like Nick Smith, who is gambling with our economic development.
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July 1, 2010 2:21pm
philu

no…i am demonstrating that most commercial dog-rolls etc..

are naught but cereal/corn/eyelids/spleens…

basically anything that can’t go into sausages for humans…(shudder…!..)

..and that the rice/vege/fruit etc etc mix my dogs get…is a far healthier..and tasty..product for them…

…phil(whoar.co.nz)
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July 1, 2010 2:24pm
Yvette

Rex Widerstrom –
“Yvette asks: Is politician John Boscowan correct or Michael Laws, who as a talk-back host should not be disseminating misinformation?
Surely you jest?

There was no intention to jest. There just seems to be little information for anyone trying to understand this fucking ETS, without people emphatically giving out false information as Laws was doing this morning, although he seemed to believe what he was telling his radio audience, that the ETS is a system whereby New Zealand, having a liability, pays funds to a developing country.
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July 1, 2010 2:27pm
Johnboy

Protein deficiency for Vegetarians:

Not all of the symptoms of protein deficiency are physical. Some are emotional or mental, and include:

* Crankiness, moodiness
* Severe depression
* Anxiety
* Lack of energy, no desire to do things

Yep, you got them all Phool, particularly the last on the list.

Get off to your doctor right away (or better still the nearest Mad Butcher’s). 🙂
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July 1, 2010 2:29pm
Lance

Has anybody considered philu is actually a hard right wing intellectual of independent means cleverly masquerading as a total loser to discredit the looney left and it’s army of bludgers?

I mean nobody is that fucked up! Clearly a cartoon character, a one dimensional figment of someone’s imagination of what the logical progression of left wing philosophy ultimately leads to.

philu is a genius
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July 1, 2010 2:30pm
Johnboy

Redbaiter in drag?

Phuck!!!
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July 1, 2010 2:38pm
andrei

When companies cease to operate it’s not uncommon for owners to cite some topical cause. Sounds better than “I ran out of steam” or “I ran out of money”.

Nope Pete George they ran out of patience trying to operate a successful business in a New Zealand run by wackos.

They are moving to Singapore which doesn’t have an ETS.
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July 1, 2010 2:40pm
Yvette

“philu is a genius’

I had considered this and think he may be a figment of the imagination of Roger Douglas.
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July 1, 2010 2:41pm
Nefarious

Petey,

Are you retired or unemployed?

Or are you paid to troll the web as a touchy feely, fence sitting, hypothesising, hand wringing progressive apologist who can always see the whole picture, the possible picture, the impossible picture and the picture that was but never was yet is still unable to express an opinion that is based on 3 poofteenths of ill-informed truth?

I have read some truly cringeworthy shit on this blog but you are giving philu a run for his money in the proliferation of pointless pontification.
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July 1, 2010 2:44pm
big bruv

Phool

What supplements do you feed your dogs to make up for their vegan diet?
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July 1, 2010 2:51pm
Redbaiter

“What supplements do you feed your dogs to make up for their vegan diet?”

Nothing better to do than talk to a retard? Doesn’t surprise me.
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July 1, 2010 2:53pm
Rex Widerstrom

Yvette:

I was jesting in suggesting you were jesting 😀

Lance asks:

Has anybody considered philu is actually a hard right wing intellectual of independent means cleverly masquerading as a total loser to discredit the looney left and it’s army of bludgers?

The longer I observe, the more convinced I become that politics is exactly as portrayed by this cartoon, which would make your theory entirely correct.
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July 1, 2010 2:56pm
Pete George

Neffy – no. And I’ve never claimed to be able to see the picture as clearly as you.

Rex, that’s funny, sadly.
(whoops, didn’t mean for an opinion to slip out, might get me into trouble).

Actually, they seem to infiltrate themselves – refer to The Standard for an example.
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July 1, 2010 3:08pm
MikeNZ

Here’s one way to shut out the electorate make a law as they have in the US.
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2010/06/house_passes_disclose_act_and.html

As far as I remember one of the straws that broke the camels back was Labour’s attempt to muzzle the populace on elections.
Goof has never apologised for that has he?
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July 1, 2010 3:27pm
Viking2

So here’s the latest from Bill. apparently thinks that its a joke to slag off taxpayers and he and Key apparently are well trianed in the art of floating news bits to distract people. What planet do these dumb shits live on. They seem to think we are all so stupid that we don’t recogniose shit for what it is. No wonder Key is looking like a mantal breakdown. Trapped by the bullshit and lies. Descent people can’t live with that for it affects their self estem and sanity.
nd I like tha last bit from Bill, ” Rudd was performing reasonably well in normal circumstances. They just didn’t like him, I think.” Really is that what he thinks. These guys need to get out in the sunlight for a while. Fancy trying to bullshit major NZ Ceo’s with that rubbish.

He also joked that business leaders, like media, would immediately return to being unsatisfied after any positive news, and wanted more.

“My minders reminded me I will not be providing one single [news] story [today].

“The Prime Minister was musing on how there was not much political news coming up. Yes, that’s what Kevin Rudd thought last Monday.

“Curiously enough, Rudd was performing reasonably well in normal circumstances. They just didn’t like him, I think.

“We’ve reassured the Prime Minister he’s much loved.”

NZ Herald. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10655715
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July 1, 2010 3:46pm
Lucia Maria

“We’ve reassured the Prime Minister he’s much loved.”

Woah. Are the knives coming out?
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July 1, 2010 3:55pm
nickb

There are two of the aspects of the ETS which are most sickening in my opinion:

1. John Key and Nick Smith crying in opposition that “We will not be world leaders in climate change! Doing our part should not come at the expense of crippling the economy” etc etc

2. How JK and NS somehow think that, from their public standing, they will be able to stop power, petrol companies putting prices up. Apparently they are going to stop this by giving them a stern public word and a “naughty boys” shake of the head.
How fucking dumb do they think we are?
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July 1, 2010 3:57pm
nickb

kk, that post at 8.26 needs posting on GD every day that National remain in power.

And thanks as well for your analysis on the ETS Viking. That was an excellent post.
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July 1, 2010 4:04pm
Pete George

1. We shouldn’t necessarily abandon our plans because other countries can’t get their shit together.

2. They have created public awareness, which may convert into public pressure and scrutiny of any attempts at opportunistic rorting. And the public can choose suppliers that they think better deserve their business. It’s called a market.
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July 1, 2010 4:05pm
Yvette

So already Contact Energy has increased prices to residential customers by 3.2%.
However, Genesis said yesterday they will wait until the true impact of the ETS is known.

Shell has a 3c a litre increase for diesel.
However, Caltex has increased diesel by 4c.
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July 1, 2010 4:05pm
nickb

Pete I am not blaming power companies for putting prices up, they are merely protecting their profit margins.

I am more disgusted that JK thinks it appropriate to dissuade them from covering costs which his government has imposed on them (by alleging they are “gouging”, etc). Populist hypocrisy at its worst.
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July 1, 2010 4:14pm
nickb

Who knows whether there will be an appeal in CIR v Penny and Hooper yet?

A good analysis is here for people unfamiliar with the case:

http://www.deloitte.com/view/en_NZ/nz/services/tax-services/652c1c9dbf749210VgnVCM200000bb42f00aRCRD.htm
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July 1, 2010 4:16pm
pollywog

There’s a survey for NZ on Airs music and video funding policies which have long since been out of step with the reality of the industry for at least 10 years, as is the use by factor of the CEO in charge of music Brendan Smyth.

Mr Smyth has personally been in charge of dishing out grants to sycophants who share his vision for contemporary popular music for 30 yrs now since the days of the QE 2 arts council days.

So if you’re looking for someone to blame for the cheap, nasty, foreign cloned crap music we see and hear on commercial radio and TV…look no further.

Now it seems he’s so fresh out of ideas that he wants us to supply them, just to keep his snout firmly in the civil servants arts funding trough. Cheeky fucker.

Glad they’re finally getting round to the loooooong overdue review of practises though. I just hope they performance review personell too and recommend sacking Mr Smyth.

Time for some fresh young blood in the mix.

http://nzmusic.org.nz/news/general/nz-on-air-nz-music-review/
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July 1, 2010 4:21pm
mattyroo

nickb, I’m totally disgusted that Key and Smith think it is ok to implement the ETS in NZ, which affects foreign focussed NZ based businesses more than any other sector of society.

And this is the revenue earning sector of our country. How fucking dumb and thoughtless are these bastards!

Fuck National, it sickens me that I gave my electorate vote to one of their members last year, and implicitly helped the bastards bring in this ETS.
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July 1, 2010 4:24pm
nickb

I agree entirely mattyroo.

My opinion on National is that the whole lot of empty suits can go and get fucked.
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July 1, 2010 4:25pm
Fale Andrew Lesa

Maori to have a national youth council, according to Dr Pita Sharples.

More race-based initiative from the separatist party, he neglected to point out that a national youth council doesn’t even exist for mainstream New Zealander’s and that the Super City has no legal provision to cater for a regional youth council.

This won’t prevent him from spending our money on this race-based agenda, or as he says – the development of Maori Youth Leadership.
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July 1, 2010 4:31pm
Sonny Blount

1. We shouldn’t necessarily abandon our plans because other countries can’t get their shit together.

Yes we should.
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July 1, 2010 4:34pm
voice of reason

“andrei (639) Says: …
Nope Pete George they ran out of patience trying to operate a successful business in a New Zealand run by wackos.
They are moving to Singapore which doesn’t have an ETS…”

Yes that the reason given – frankly its a weak one. The business will be moving there because of the various enterprise incentives on offer in Singapore., plus of course Lower corp tax rates, lower personal tax .

Ironic move really as the amount of energy consumption in Singapore is among the highest in the world.
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July 1, 2010 4:36pm
nickb

Nick Smith, 30/06/2010, to a probable National supporter, who was voicing his ETS concerns:

“If you’re not happy with us or believe climate change is a load of nonsense then at next year’s election vote for a party that doesn’t want an ETS.”
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July 1, 2010 4:36pm
Pete George

How is F&P doing now they have moved a lot of their manufacturing offshore?

Isn’t it far too soon (at least a year) to be making any decisions on who to vote for? The Winston First party may run an anti-ETS campaign.

Anyway, most voters surely have a much broader view of what would make a good government than to close their eyes to everything beyond a single issue. Especially those people with enough awareness to participate on a political blog.
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July 1, 2010 4:53pm
nickb

It seems ironic we are being told to trust the word of, among other people, Al Gore on the matter of global warming.

He has built up a large personal fortune based on this myth, partly from a shockingly one-sided documentary.

Apart from any of this indoctrination, the man can’t even keep his hands to himself.
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July 1, 2010 4:54pm
big bruv

Here we go…

We are being softened up for an MP’s pay rise.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/3875559/Cut-MPs-travel-perk-report

Another example of the bastards sense of entitlement.
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July 1, 2010 4:56pm
Fletch

How do we know this tax is going toward the ETS anyway? I got a feeling it’s just another tax on NZers that’s going to end up in the Govt coffers…. That’s why they won’t can it.
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July 1, 2010 4:58pm
Nefarious

Anyway, most voters surely have a much broader view of what would make a good government than to close their eyes to everything beyond a single issue.

What if that single issue is competency? This lot are sorely lacking.
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July 1, 2010 5:05pm
Sonny Blount

How is F&P doing now they have moved a lot of their manufacturing offshore?

Do you have a problem with Mexicans Pete? Are you a racist?
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July 1, 2010 5:15pm
Pete George

Competency is a major issue, but it is relative. And it reaches far wider and deeper than a handful of populist issues.

What most voters do seem to demonstrate when they vote is that jumping a party from say 5 seats to 50 too quickly is extremely risky, as the competency as a major player (of the party) and of most of the MP’s is unknown.
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July 1, 2010 5:19pm
Pete George

Do you have a problem with Mexicans Pete? Are you a racist?

Nothing like that. I have had financial interests in F&P, I have worked for F&P, my son was lucky to finish his apprenticeship with F&P just before they closed a factory, and I live in a city that was affected significantly by them closing.
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July 1, 2010 5:22pm
Sonny Blount

Well obviously Mexico offered a preferable package to Dunedin.
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July 1, 2010 6:02pm
dad4justice

Is the Maori Party going to get tough on child abuse? Forget the cigs you deranged pathetic dropkicks.
SAVE OUR KIDS!
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July 1, 2010 6:14pm
Viking2

New subject for mo;
Serious new disease in America.
Gonorrhea Lectim

http://crusader-rabbit.blogspot.com/2010/07/please-pass-on-this-important-medical.html

Go on have a read.
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July 1, 2010 6:17pm
Put it away

Phool you are being absurd, do you think a dog gives a shit about eating eyelids and offal? My mate used to come back from rabbit shooting and chuck a whole one to his dog, the dog would look like xmas had come early and chomp the whole thing down. That is what a dog is about, not some miserable dog equivalent of lentils and nut cutlets. Shame on you for abusing your poor dog to arrogantly impose your un-natural ideology.
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July 1, 2010 6:34pm
WebWrat

When the phuckwits start talking to the phuckwit, I phuck off from KiwiBlog and go elsewhere.
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July 1, 2010 6:46pm
starboard

A man who ran a drugs operation out of the Sky City casino in Auckland has been jailed for 18 years.
Tac Kin Voong, 47, was earlier this year found guilty on a number of methamphetamine charges in the High Court at Auckland.

umm..dont understand. Scumbag who murdered that Vercoe character with a kick to the head gets 2 years in the slammer
this poor bastard gets 18 for drugs??
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July 1, 2010 6:49pm
Manolo

I have to ak John Boscawen, a frequent visitor to this blog, why is ACT keeping the agreement with this mendacious National Party?

Surely, any principled party would leave the cowards alone to take the blame for the ETS and its dreadful consequences to our economy. Let National share the blame with the racist Maori Party.

What is ACT waiting for, and why?

I await your reply, Mr. Boscawen.
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July 1, 2010 6:50pm
nickb

I reckon starboard.

The cunt that killed Vercoe kicked him in the head with enough force to kill him. A charming act.

In comparison all Voong did was sell P to idiots stupid enough to take the stuff.
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July 1, 2010 6:52pm
starboard

doesnt make sense…Im not making excuses for a drug dealer..but WTF?? 18 years against a couple for murder…and it was murder…
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July 1, 2010 6:54pm
philu

(i don’t know why i am engaging with a moron like you…but i guess you will do as a foil..)

the proof is in the dog…11 yrs old…and so fit/in such good condition…people think she is only a ccouple of years old…

..and she is but one of many vegan dogs i know…

..and they are all in sparkling health/fitness…

..at a party up north last xmas….there were nine vegan dogs there…

all as healthy/as cool as….and all with really mellow natures…

and i repeat….no smelly breath….sweet smelling coat…

i never bathe her…ocean swims etc is about it..

and that is ‘cos she dosen’t need bathing…

(she has just come up and nudged my hand….for her post-dinner belly-rub….licking her lips/chops as she does so…

we also have this anticipation-routine…where when i am compiling her meal….i give her a taste of each of the ingredients as they go in..

..she enjoys that….)

dogs are omnivores….

and i repeat:..google ‘vegan dogs’….

..and there are picture-galleries..

i know i am pissing into the wind….but try opening yr mind….eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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July 1, 2010 6:55pm
RightNow

Token Gesture Alert as the government of New Zealand, unable to think straight thanks to years of green environmental propaganda, brings in its emissions trading scheme.

New Zealand emits about 0.1% of global CO2. So even if New Zealand reduced its emissions to zero overnight, AND it were demonstrated that the climate sensitivity is large enough to notice (which it hasn’t been), it would make not the slightest bit of difference to the climate.

Not only that, but I hardly think that China and India are going to look at New Zealand, and, wracked with guilt and remorse by the plucky little country’s valiant efforts to save the planet, stop their coal fired economies in their tracks. Not on your life. China and India are far too busy building their prosperity and lifting their populations out of poverty. It’s only wealthy countries can afford the luxury of pointless environmental gestures like this.

So the only result will be higher prices for poor Kiwis. Everything will cost more: electricity, petrol, groceries, consumer goods – everything – since everything (virtually) requires energy for its production or transportation. As the ABC reports:

New Zealanders are bracing for higher electricity and fuel prices with the introduction of an emissions trading scheme (ETS).

From today New Zealanders will pay around three cents a litre more for fuel.

Electricity bills are set to increase by up to 5 per cent as companies pass on the costs of buying carbon credits to consumers.

Environment minister Dr Nick Smith says New Zealand had to act because its greenhouse gas emissions have increased by 25 per cent over the past 20 years. [So from absolutely tiny, to slightly less absolutely tiny]

“It’s actually about New Zealand starting the path, starting the change to a less carbon intensive economy,” he said. (source)

Good luck with that. Just watch your industries move offshore, and your economy decline for no purpose whatsoever.

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/06/30/new-zealand-begins-emissions-trading-scheme-meanwhile-the-gorepachauri-chicago-climate-exchange-is-flatlining/#more-21248
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July 1, 2010 6:56pm
starboard

fuck off whore…your a nutjob..no one gives a rats about ya flea bitten mongriels
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July 1, 2010 6:58pm
Inventory2

I’ve been out of town all day, so have only just seen Adolf’s 8.34am comment

Murray, you have just pre-announced the resurgence of the Winston First Party.

This shambles will go down in history as John Key’s ‘Shrek’ moment.

Adolf – never let it be forgotten that Winston and NZ First voted in favour of Labour’s ETS immediately prior to the 2008 election. There might be an issue that Peters can make a comeback on, but it won’t be this one.
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July 1, 2010 6:58pm
starboard

we also have this anticipation-routine…where when i am compiling her meal….i give her a taste of each of the ingredients as they go in..then I feed her my salami…oohh feels good
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July 1, 2010 7:01pm
Viking2

Well Stuff me with a feather, wouldn’t you just have to know it.

Hart has just revealed that the Robin Brooke bed share was in Christchurch.
What is it with that place?

second point.
This has all come to light just as ACC has stopped the counseling gravy train and various payments to claimants.
Has to be a lefty campaign there somewhere.
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July 1, 2010 7:08pm
Viking2

http://fairfactsmedia.com/?p=2247
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July 1, 2010 7:16pm
Viking2

Even Labour think Smiths nuts.

Nick Smith estranged from the truth and from kiwis on ETS
Posted by Charles Chauvel on July 1st, 2010

Today, the ETS comes into effect for the transport and energy sectors. Labour supports pricing greenhouse gas emissions, but not giving polluters a first class free ride on the taxpayer, which is what National is doing.

Nick Smith claims their ETS will reduce emissions. No expert actually agrees. But more galling is his answer to the criticisms of kiwi families already struggling to get by that “it would have been worse under Labour”.

Nick Smith is being a stranger to the truth again. Here’s why:
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July 1, 2010 7:18pm
Steve

Nick Smith falls into the ‘ignoramus’ group of tossers.
When will you reply to emails Nick? No fewer than 20 (yes twenty) emails I have sent to you regarding ETS and ACC and you have not replied other than forward the email to someone in your departments. They reply about 3 (yes three) months later.

You are a waste of space Nick Smith, totaly ignorant
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July 1, 2010 7:20pm
side show bob

Philly my dogs just love afterbirths, if you want some be happy to send box full.
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July 1, 2010 7:24pm
Put it away

Phool do you think anyone believes a word you say about your poor abused dog, given that you’re a compulsive liar. What’s the library like at 11:30 on a sunday night again ?
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July 1, 2010 7:24pm
Viking2

from John Boscawen today –

Today the government has imposed added costs on all New Zealanders, all because the National government say they want to do their bit for climate change. This is even though the Prime Minister’s own Chief Science Advisor has said ‘anything we do as a nation will in itself have little impact on the climate – our impact will be symbolic, moral and political.”

How moral is it that the National government seems more than happy to let Kiwi families, already struggling to pay their power bills, simply freeze as the ETS increases electricity prices – while millions of dollars go to forestry owners?

What would Nick Smith say to pensioners Kevin and Gabrielle Holden, who told ‘3 News’ on Tuesday night that they were down to one bar on their heater and who were now facing increased costs due to the ETS, so that foreign forest owners like Fujitsu Xerox Company, Oji Paper Company and ITOCHU Corporation could receive hundreds of millions of dollars. When I asked him that question in Parliament yesterday, Dr Smith could only point to the $80 million that Marlborough Forest owners would receive under the ETS.

Dr Smith seems to think that the Holdens should take solace in the fact that forestry owners in Marlborough are going to benefit by $80 million. It’s hard to comprehend that Dr Smith could be so out of touch with the struggles of ordinary New Zealanders and particularly the disadvantaged and those on low and fixed incomes.
This may be symbolic and it may be political, but it CERTAINLY IS NOT MORAL.
The ETS will enable electricity generators like Meridian, which will receive a higher wholesale price for their electricity under the ETS to make windfall profits. The Government will then be able to use this money to pay $2.6 billion to foresters between now and 2012. 55% of New Zealand’s forests are foreign owned.
Nick Smith continues to deny that New Zealand’s ETS is world leading. However, he said so himself in a speech in Parliament on the 24 September, 2009.

“This emissions trading scheme will be the first of any country outside Europe, and on 1 July 2010 will be the most comprehensive by including transport, industrial, and energy emissions. New Zealand is the first country in the world to include forestry, and under these amendments will be the first country in the world to include agriculture.”
Nick Smith in one of his recent Public Meetings about the ETS said that 5 of our top 10 trading partners have an ETS. When challenged to name them, he couldn’t. Then this morning on National Radio he said that three of our top ten trading partners have an ETS. This is incorrect. The fact is that one of our top ten trading partners have an ETS (The UK which comes under the EU scheme) and four of our top twenty trading partners have one. All of these countries are grouped together under the EU scheme. 80% of Europes trade is within Europe and 20% outside of Europe. Whereas 85% of New Zealands exports go to countries with no ETS.

Myself and Rodney Hide have been working hard on behalf of all New Zealanders to have the ETS delayed, if not scrapped. Over the last few months we have held over 40 meetings around New Zealand and put pressure on the National Party in Parliament via oral and written questions. We have raised the public’s awareness about the ETS.

Whilst stage one was not delayed or scrapped, we are still working toward that goal. Our efforts have, however, borne fruit. It is increasingly likely that stages two and three of the ETS will not be implemented.
In case you’ve not done so already, and regardless of the fact that stage one has now been implemented, I’d encourage you to write to Prime Minister John Key as well as Senior Cabinet Ministers and your local National Party MP to voice your opposition to the ETS. Politicians are vote driven, it is important that they hear that this is a deciding issue for you. The email addresses are;

john.key@parliament.govt.nz; bill.english@parliament.govt.nz; gerry.brownlee@parliament.govt.nz;
simon.power@parliament.govt.nz; steven.joyce@parliament.govt.nz;
tony.ryall@parliament.govt.nz; judith.collins@parliament.govt.nz
Your local National Party MP’s email address will be the same format (firstname.lastname@parliament.govt.nz
Join the Climate Realists Network
Climate Realists (NZ) is a growing network of people who are concerned about the current misinformation which is being broadcast regarding climate change and the ETS. Climate Realists founders Neil and Esther Henderson have co-ordinated two anti-ETS petitions and helped to organise the recent protest march on Parliament. They produce a weekly email newsletter which is a very informative round up of climate change related matters.

Email info@climaterealists.org.nz to sign up for their newsletter or check out their website http://www.climaterealists.org.nz

Please be assured that the ACT Party will continue to campaign to have the ETS suspended and to at least ensure that stages two and three of the ETS will not be implemented.
For more information call 09 531 5531 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 09 531 5531 end_of_the_skype_highlighting or email johnboscawen.mp@parliament.govt.nz
Thank you for your interest and support.
Please forward this onto friends and family!
Best regards,
John Boscawen MP
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July 1, 2010 7:27pm
Yvette

“(she has just come up and nudged my hand….for her post-dinner belly-rub….licking her lips/chops as she does so…”

dog in the Library…huh..(eh?)…

…Philu?..
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July 1, 2010 7:35pm
side show bob

RB, obviously someone or something has hijacked the useful idiot’s soul. If it was ever proven he has sold out to or has interests in Weyerhauser NZ Incorporated then the man is in deep deep poo. Fuck the bastard would be lynched from the nearest tree. It would be the downfall of the National Socialists
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July 1, 2010 7:46pm
krazykiwi

It’s interesting that after years of wrangling, debates, national press, recriminations, horse-trading, pleading and outright lies .. that once the big day arrives DPF hasn’t found the time to create a post on National’s Big New Tax.
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July 1, 2010 7:50pm
Zulu

Nick Smith selling the ETS to the (gormless) NZ public …

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_TsPrlj7Zs
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July 1, 2010 7:50pm
Johnboy

“..at a party up north last xmas….there were nine vegan dogs there…

all as healthy/as cool as….and all with really mellow natures…

and i repeat….no smelly breath….sweet smelling coat…

i never bathe her…ocean swims etc is about it..

and that is ‘cos she dosen’t need bathing…

(she has just come up and nudged my hand….for her post-dinner belly-rub….licking her lips/chops as she does so…

we also have this anticipation-routine…where when i am compiling her meal….i give her a taste of each of the ingredients as they go in..”

Wasn’t that the start of the bestiality scene in Shanes last free video??
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July 1, 2010 7:56pm
Pete George

ssbob, do you know if they base that on anything more than plucked out of the air wishful thinking speculation? Anything’s a possibility, but publicly suggesting something like that without anything to back it up is just an attempt to throw any mud they can dream up and hope that something might stick. Dirty.
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July 1, 2010 7:57pm
Pete George

Johnboy, that sort of insinuation is disgraceful.
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July 1, 2010 8:00pm
Yvette

Mercury Energy has announced a 3.3% increase in electricity charges.
Genesis says they will wait until they know true impact of ETS.
So how does Mercury know to charge 3.3%?
It’s Genesis who seems to control the Huntly Power Station.
[ http://www.genesisenergy.co.nz/genesis/index.cfm?0E16177E-E313-418B-F397-3021BCE6E1EF]
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July 1, 2010 8:04pm
Johnboy

Sorry Petey. Your right. That was the video that Shane actually paid for himself. 🙂
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July 1, 2010 8:13pm

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