General Debate 16 July 2010

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TimG_Oz

Victory for the good guys!!
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July 16, 2010 8:53am
Yvette

Character is like a tree and reputation like a shadow. The shadow is what we think of it; the tree is the real thing.
– Abraham Lincoln

A tree’s a tree. How many more do you need to look at?
– Ronald Reagan

You can fool some of the people all the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on.
– George W. Bush

I think this is the most extraordinary collection of talent, of human knowledge, that has ever been gathered at the White House – with the possible exception of when Thomas Jefferson dined alone.
– John F. Kennedy
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July 16, 2010 8:53am
mickysavage

Help, help, run, run boat people are coming to New Zealand.

Or at least John Key things so …

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10659009
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July 16, 2010 8:54am
Inventory2

Whatever happened to the threatened extinction of the NI skifields due to global warming? Ruapehu is set to have its best week ever …

http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2010/07/global-warming-victim-yeah-right.html
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July 16, 2010 8:58am
Jibbering Gibbon

It’s a quotation jamboree!

“It is not necessary to change. Survival is not mandatory.” – W Edwards Deming

I like to think he was voicing evidence of a hip counter-culture, far ahead of it’s time, somewhere in the recesses of his horn-rimmed brain. But since he was also responsible for influencing Japan’s rise as a post-war industrial power, I fear it may be sarcasm. In this case I will choose my delusion.
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July 16, 2010 9:02am
Pete George

Not sure why there are mayoral face-offs that exclude some of the contenders, in fact before the final list is known.

Battle of (a couple of) the Super City hopefuls

Len Brown: “I can sort of perform little miracles around our place.”
The little Jesus syndrome?

John Banks: “I’m doing this to balance the family ledger.”
But not for the money of course.
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July 16, 2010 9:04am
Ross Nixon

Great news this morning. The leak from the rogue oil well in the Gulf of Mexico has been stopped!
Let’s hope it holds…
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July 16, 2010 9:05am
Pete George

I guess Deming wasn’t referring to the Labour Party, but it may still be appropriate.
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July 16, 2010 9:07am
Jibbering Gibbon

Not sure why there are mayoral face-offs that exclude some of the contenders, in fact before the final list is known.

We have trial-by-media, now witness election-by-media.
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July 16, 2010 9:09am
Adolf Fiinkensein

RN, yes good news indeed. The greatest oil spill EVER. Well, ever since Saddam opened all those wells of Kuwait.
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July 16, 2010 9:12am
Don the Kiwi

“….eh…?”

(Lest we Forget)
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July 16, 2010 9:13am
Manolo

The incompetent Nick Smith grilled in Southland: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10659071
while his boss Key continues to lie about the impact of the new tax.
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July 16, 2010 9:16am
Redbaiter

The braindead losers and cowards full of propaganda from NZ’s left wing media (yeah you know who I mean) and continually smearing Sarah Palin as unelectable need to read the latest polling-

http://hotair.com/archives/2010/07/15/ppp-obama-palin-tied-4646-in-2012-polling/
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July 16, 2010 9:39am
hj

mercury energy cocked up my power bill .I’ve been on to India to tell them where the meter box is.
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July 16, 2010 9:43am
mpledger

I see there is new policy that universities are going to be funded by how much their graduates earn. This is really stupid because it sets up perverse incentives and doesn’t take into account of the differences between universities.

1)
For example Massey University, who generally draw their students from small rural towns and cities are left with a huge problem. If their graduates go back to their homes to get work then they are going to get lower paid jobs. There is no way an accountant’s job in Taihape is going to pay the same as a similar job in Auckland.

2)
The incentives for the university are to not teach courses that lead to low paying jobs i.e. typically women’s jobs e.g. nursing and teaching. Since there is already a shortage of nurses, all that will happen is that the government will have to subsidise the courses to make sure they are taught.

3)
And how is this even fair when the government sets the price for government jobs anyway.

4)
This is going to generate massive beauracracy – TEC swallows massive amounts of tax payer money to monitor academics performance and they are easy to find – they are at universities/polytechs. Imagine the cost of trying to find graduates (20-24 year olds!) who come and go on OEs. What a nightmare.
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July 16, 2010 9:45am
Pete George

It’s not just some of the Muslims who have trouble evolving out of the dark ages.

Vatican says women priests a ‘crime against faith’

The new rules issued by the Vatican puts attempts at ordaining women among the “most serious crimes” alongside paedophilia.

A demonstration staged in St Peter’s Square last month saw calls for the Pope to open the ranks of priests to women to renew the Church and solve a chronic shortage in ministries around the world. Women priests have been allowed in the Anglican Church since 1992.

But the Vatican made its stance clear on by comparing such actions to child abuse crimes and issuing new rules for investigating both by the same disciplinary body.

I’m surprised Catholic women would put up with this. Many of them seem unconcerned about what the old codgers say anyway.

Italy’s Birth Rate is The Second Lowest in the Western World

The birth rate of Italy, at a rate of 1.23 children per woman is the second lowest in the Western world. Women rarely have more than one child.
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July 16, 2010 9:46am
pollywog

I feel your pain big bruv…

stranded at the drive in
branded a fool
what will they say
monday at school

Danny Zuko
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July 16, 2010 9:57am
RightNow

“Fears for Philosophy degrees”
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/3924300/Fears-for-philosophy-degrees/

1) I think this guy needs to be more philosophical about it.

2) If you expect your degree to make you more employable you can fund it from the already generous student loans. If you don’t expect your degree to make you more employable then bugger off, we’re not funding it for you.
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July 16, 2010 10:05am
Put it away

BP just spoiled all the hippies fun by taking away their favourite reason to moan and preach doom and destruction and the evils of capitalism
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July 16, 2010 10:08am
pollywog

i thought the favourite reason is all the oil that needs to be cleaned up and the effects on the fish stocks form the stuff that has leaked…
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July 16, 2010 10:14am
mpledger

@RightNow – this isn’t changing personal student funding but university funding. All it’s going to do is increase accountancy courses and decrease social work/nursing/teaching courses.

I guess that’s actually o.k. because companies will want lots of accountants to get around the changes to ACC levies.
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July 16, 2010 10:20am
Manolo

Working For Families, “socialism by stealth” according to Key in 2007, and a euphemism for ‘middle-class welfare handouts’ is costing NZ a bundle: “The WFF changes affected 382,500 families with dependent children and cost an additional $1.5 billion in the year to March 2008 compared with the year to March 2004”

The full report at http://www.msd.govt.nz/about-msd-and-our-work/publications-resources/evaluation/receipt-working-for-families/index.htmlstory

And yet, this government refuses to scrap it.

Hat Tip: Lindsay Mitchell
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July 16, 2010 10:31am
OTGO

Is July headbutt a New Zealander month? First Jimmy Cowan now Julian Dean!
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July 16, 2010 10:31am
backster

Here’s one area where we are not near the bottom of OECD statistics.

http://media.economist.com/images/na/2010w28/201028NAP427.jpg
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July 16, 2010 10:35am
david

backster –

It sure looks like the market has established a “going rate” for the role of PM internationally. Remarkably consistent IMHO if you allow for bits around the edges and added responsibilities (like the USA CinC role)

It also seems to show that the responsibilities are, to a large extent, common regardless of the organisation’s size which is something I have long argued wrt corporates.
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July 16, 2010 10:57am
Fletch

Pete George, there are many reasons for having male-only priests, not the least is because the Church is described as the Bride of Christ, and the priest is standing in for Christ so-to-speak. There will never be women priests. Ever.
That is the way of it. I can give you some links if you really want to understand. The Church actually places great value on women. A woman was the first to see Jesus after he rose etc.

What puzzles me is WHY women feel they have to do everything a man does? Men and women are different. They have different roles. That does not mean they are not equal in value. Men can’t give birth and never will be able to; it is a gift given to women, but should we complain that we cannot do it? This need to be able to do everything a man does seems like a kind of inferiority complex, which, at this time in history, is largely of their own creation (apart from pay equity, which I am not too sure about).
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July 16, 2010 10:58am
RichardX

Fletch, It is a biological fact men can’t give birth. Is it a biological fact that women can’t be priests?
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July 16, 2010 11:03am
Murray

Let me know when the vatican starts stonning women pete.
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July 16, 2010 11:06am
jinpy

The question of matching university outputs to required skills is an interesting one. We obviously want the right skills in the workforce. It’s hard to know how to approach the problem though. From my experience, lack of skills is not NZs problem, lack of jobs is the fundamental problem. We really want people to be more innovative and create jobs and opportunities — placing money as the bottom line may lead people to focus on the more unimaginative options.

Qualifications have become uber-important in today’s world but I don’t necessarily think the extra qualifications are necessarily changing productivity or GDP, the baseline has just shifted up. Look at job adverts today, basically everyone is looking for the solution ‘outside’ their organisation (i.e. the new fully trained, extra-amazing recruit), which is a worrying sign. What happened to the guy that didn’t even finish school C becoming managing director? That’s nearly impossible in today’s market outside of being an entrepeneur because no-one will employ you unless you’ve been doing that exact job for 3-5 years already. People have to position themselves for particular roles, which often they do for financial security/status rather than their particular expertise, which is not making us any GDP gains necessarily.

Not enough jobs because of not enough creativity — in education, in govt… The same old solutions like ‘education standards’ and everyone aiming for the big dollar roles won’t get us there.
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July 16, 2010 11:07am
Chuck Bird

The following is a post I made on the 60 Minutes Blog in response to “Cool to be Gay”. As I said in my post I have no problem protecting children from serious bullying but what went on at this school was promotion to me.

The link to the video is below my post. Is school promoting sexual experimentation to impressionable adolescents or support those who are born homosexual or bisexual.

Chuck Bird
15 Jul 2010 4:14p.m.

I was appalled when I heard a father call talkback to say he had three of his kids go to the Whangaproa College. Two were still attending. He had no idea that homosexuality and bisexuality were being promoted to his children as equally valid lifestyle choices. It is great for schools to ensure kids are not seriously bullied if the have a disability, are fat or if the choose to come out as gay. However, it is a very much different matter for schools to actively promote alternative sexual lifestyles without parent’s knowledge let alone consent. This is yet another example of schools undermining parental authority and values. Primary schools encourage pupils to report on their parents if they have received a smack on the bum for being naughty. High schools arrange contraception for underage girls without parent’s knowledge and if that fails they arrange an abortion again without parental knowledge let alone consent. This is one step too far. I hope parents at Whangaproa College and other schools that undermining parental values let the schools know of their views. Some may approve and that is fine but parent have a right to know that this sort of thing is being promoted to their children.

http://www.3news.co.nz/Cool-to-be-gay/tabid/371/articleID/165779/Default.aspx
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July 16, 2010 11:12am
Pete George

Murray, of course stoning is far worse, and most Christians stopped that sort of thing hundreds of years ago (but abuses still happen in some countries).

Fletch, I missed the bit in the bible that says that men should appoint themselves in a hierarchical structure in massive excesses of buildings, fittings, possessions and adornments to “stand in for Christ”.
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July 16, 2010 11:20am
Fletch

RichardX, no, but it is a rule. Would a man apply to a convent to be a nun? No. And why not? Because it is a role suited to a woman. That doesn’t mean it is “sexist”. I see that there seems to be a trend of women applying for and getting entry into establishments and clubs that have historically been men-only. Again, why? So they can examine the smokey walls with the deer heads on them? Or is it more for the fact that they somehow felt left out? But aren’t men allowed to have places where only they can go to talk amongst themselves? Women sure do. I don’t get it.
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July 16, 2010 11:34am
Fletch

Pete, what excesses? Should not a building that houses the very presence of Christ in the Eucharist (who is a king, no, THE King) be in a building that suits his status? It isn’t just for that reason – check out the Grand Tour programme on TV where the presenter visits churches etc. They are built to show the glory and majesty of God in a physical way as well. That is why the church was always the largest spire in any village and you could see it from everywhere.

Is the Vatican rich? I did a post on this a few years ago, and also quoted the blog of a David MacDonald who visited the Sistine Chapel to find –

I could not take photos in there because a Japanese company owned the copyright. The Vatican didn’t have enough money in the budget to restore the Sistine Chapel so a Japanese company did it in exchange for the copyright privileges. The Vatican itself has a yearly budget that is equivalent to the Archdiocese of Chicago, and frequently runs on a deficit.

So much for the Vatican being rich.

What about all the sculptures and paintings and buildings that they own though? Well, no one really “owns” them. The assets are “public wealth”. It’s like a museum, or the art that at Buckingham Palace – it belongs to the people. Bishop Fulton Sheen once famously said in one of his programmes that if the Catholic Church sold every single thing it owned, there would only be enough to give tuppence to every person in the world. I’m sure that’s gone up now but it still wouldn’t be much.

David MacDonald again –

The big beautiful traditional Churches that receive the most complaints were not built with big bucks. They were built with the sweat of the brow of volunteers who worked ’till 11 PM every night after a full day of working their regular day jobs. They would do this for years until their community Parish was built. I wish I had that kind of tireless faith and dedication. That is the real wealth of the Catholic Church – the people, and 2000 years of prayers of the faithful.

Amen
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July 16, 2010 11:44am
Pete George

“what excesses? ”

I’ve just toured Italy and have seen the Vatican Museum, Sistine Chapel, St Peter’s, St Pauls, and many more. I understand the spire height thing, nothing in Rome is allowed to be built higher than the Basilica dome (hence no high-rises in Rome). A lot of amazing stuff, mind boggling, but much of it seemed hugely over the top extravagance.

The church I enjoyed seeing the most was Sant’Apollinare just outside Ravenna. Nice mosaics, but most impressive was the feel, it had the most simple church-like feel of them all, by far. It was also the oldest I saw – 6th century. I don’t think that’s a coincidence.
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July 16, 2010 12:00pm
stephen

Bit of a strange poll at Red Alert today:

http://blog.labour.org.nz/index.php/2010/07/16/friday-poll-who-should-replace-english-as-nat-mof/
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July 16, 2010 12:04pm
Pete George

Mallard has learned some tricks off DPF? There must be some wishful thinkers voting, they want Tolley as MOF.
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July 16, 2010 12:12pm
Pete George

Happy marriages in Argentina? The first country in South American to give this freedom.
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July 16, 2010 12:37pm
kowtow

The church that Pete(Dawkins)George enjoyed so much was built by Catholics who”d have been happy to stone women claiming to be priests. Strange that! and a few others besides.

and please stop drawing parallels with our Muslim brothers,at least until a nun walks into a pub and blows every one up for watching the world cup……..tour de france perhaps……

a rabbi,a priest and a lesbian episcopalian bishop walk into a pub and the barman says……..
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July 16, 2010 12:41pm
jinpy

Kowtow,

The rise of terrorism is not solely based on religion. It has political and socio-economic roots. Besides, how many righteous Catholics in the IRA?
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July 16, 2010 12:48pm
kowtow

jinpy You tell me.Besides what’s your point?
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July 16, 2010 12:55pm
dad4justice

“Cool to be Gay” FFS well done Rainbow Labour. This generation has been trained by the perverts.
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July 16, 2010 12:57pm
Pete George

Your words, not mine kowtow. At that time, 6th century, it seems there was greater tolerance for other views.

By the end of century the Western church tolerates magic and other manifestations of pagan spirituality as diverse cultures are incorporated into the church.

http://www.christianhistorytimeline.com/lives_events/centuries/cnt06.shtml

There seems to have been early ordination of women:

Council of Chalcedon – Canon #15: “No woman under 40 years of age is to be ordained a deacon, and then only after close scrutiny.” This is believed to be the last time in church history that the ordination of women was mentioned as a routine practice, until modern times.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_hise.htm
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July 16, 2010 12:57pm
kowtow

Pete g.
I said priest, not deacon. Your words ,not mine.
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July 16, 2010 1:09pm
jinpy

kowtow,

Answer: a lot. You tried to suggest Catholics were free from terrorist behavior I provided a counter example (well, you mentioned nuns, but that’s unfairly specific in my view).
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July 16, 2010 1:09pm
krazykiwi

Good to see Mark Renshaw kicked out of the Tour. Dangerous. Poor sportsmanship.
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July 16, 2010 2:00pm
Nefarious

I don’t like the tour de france.

What kind of sport has brolly dollies in big yellow baggy sack-cloth dresses and men in skintight multi coloured spandex?

Give me MotoGP anyday, real racing, real men, real brolly dollies.
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July 16, 2010 2:10pm
kowtow

jinpy
No never suggested Cats free of terrorism. Far from it. Catholic individuals are as bad as the next. Agree aboutl ideology ,politics etc
My problem is with people like pete g who can’t resist a cheap shot every chance they get. The equivalence thing is a strategy the likes of Dawkins are always at.Thus my comment about the nun and football.You wont find religious Catholics blowing up pubs in the name of their religion(for murderous political reasons perhaps ,but not in the name of Christ)and even if they did it would be condemned by the clergy.

Catholic preaching is most definitly anti terrorist. The same cannot be said of Islamic interpretations of the violent verses of the Koran.
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July 16, 2010 2:29pm
Rex Widerstrom

Meh, it’s Friday. I’ll play. Yvette notes:

You can fool some of the people all the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on.
– George W. Bush

And then Redbaiter comes along and proves it with:

The braindead losers and cowards full of propaganda from NZ’s left wing media (yeah you know who I mean) and continually smearing Sarah Palin as unelectable need to read the latest polling

Look a little deeper and we find the poll set Obama (whom most voters would cheerfully replace with a Dalek, let alone a half-term resigned Governor) against failed Republican hopefuls Mitt Romney, Mike Huckabee and Newt Gingrich along with Palin and someone called Jan Brewer, “who doesn’t have particularly high name recognition on the national level at this point”.

Brewer – the least known – scored higher than Palin and Obama, reinforcing the contention that it’s an “anyone but Obama” vote, not a “we love Sarah” vote. In fact Palin’s positive-to-negatives is running at 37/52 in the same poll.

Assuming the Republicans come up with a non-failed, intelligent candidate then it looks like Obama will deservedly become a one-term President (unless of course he takes a page from the Dubya / Clinton playbook and starts bombing someplace), but not if they’re mad enough to run Palin – against which I’d bet the farm (if I had one).
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July 16, 2010 2:47pm
Redbaiter

“someone called Jan Brewer”

Where the fuck are you Rex? Have you been stuck down an opal mine shaft in Coober Pedy for a few months?? Y’know, guys like you need to sharpen up a bit. Its this kind of ignorance that gave me the inspiration for my Farrar shark jumping thesis on Crusader Rabbit today.
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July 16, 2010 3:06pm
Rex Widerstrom

Yes Red I know who Jan Brewer is, and I’m sure you do too. The point I’m making is that her recognition here (without Googling) would be a fraction of that of Palin’s, as also appears is the case in the US.

And since, when running polls on hypothetical races (or, heaven help democracy, sometimes even in elections) a candidate’s name recognition is often what gets them across the line, to have someone lesser known than Palin beat her in a hypothetical poll tells me Palin is beat in a real race even before it begins.
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July 16, 2010 3:16pm
jinpy

kowtow,

I can see the distinction you raise, and I agree. I think the religious text is a lesser causal factor than other ingredients though, yet it is often highlighted as the only cause. Its the individual with a motive to act out in such an extreme fashion that comes first, the extreme element that comes with their particular view that comes next, and the religous text itself is used as a prop later. I mean, if I wanted to I could presumably go to any holy book and find sections that call followers to warfare.

World geopolitical history is not my forte, but I’ve tended towards the idea that islamic terrorism exists as a nebulous concept, involving different countries, causes and leaders. The question we should be asking is why muslim extremists have become an increasing problem for the West in recent years.
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July 16, 2010 3:24pm
kowtow

There’s a mine of information on the website jihadwatch.

This is a huge and long running issue which is not going to go away.The Islamic threat to the west is not new.Any Greek or Serb could tell you that.

Irrespective of extremist terrorism, Islam is the future . They have the numbers, the ideology,religion and money. The west is weak and dangerously divided. It really is time to wake up.
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July 16, 2010 3:39pm
Pete George

Sarah Palin explains the Tea Party

She’s got a very strong core of followers but she looks to be toxic to to many others, but who knows what will happen in US politics. It depends on where the money is (and if there’s any left).

Meanwhile Obama donates $2.4b to electric car battery development.
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July 16, 2010 3:52pm
andrei

Pete George;

Argentina hasn’t legalized Marriage for Gays.

They can’t Marriage is God given.

What they have provided is a cheap copy – the equivalent of a cheap watch disguised as a Gucci.
And like any cheap knockoff it wont work that well.

And what should obvious even to someone as muddled thinking as you that no amount of Government legislation can make the pairing of two men or two women fecund.

No man will be producing a baby from his nether regions anytime soon nor two women conceiving one no matter how many laws the legislators legislate.
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July 16, 2010 4:02pm
jinpy

that may be the case, i think polarising the issue fuels the whole thing as well — there is such a thing as a moderate practising muslim. Labeling everything involving a muslim as jihadist oversimplifies complex issues. I don’t know what’s happening exactly in Greece or Serbia, but I’m pretty sure they’re different than the issues in Afganistan, or Iran, or Indonesia. Putting all these issues in one basket may make a nice press sound bite but it’s not the truth unless you explore the history of the group of people and the region.

Try “The Power of Nightmares” by Adam Curtis. Admittedly, it has its own bias, but it tells an interesting story about an extremely influential islamist Sayyid Qutb. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Power_of_Nightmares). In return, I’ll check out jihadwatch…
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July 16, 2010 4:09pm
Redbaiter

“but she looks to be toxic”

“Toxic” is something you commies are going to have to get used to. Can’t say you haven’t earned it.
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July 16, 2010 4:10pm
Pete George

Palin has not shown much sign of appealing outside her comfort zone yet.

Those politicians that didn’t quit half way through their term have been busy in Washington passing “the biggest overhaul of financial-industry regulation since the Great Depression” – will it be effective in preventing the next great depression?

Will it help Obama recover some support, or will 2012 be depressing for him?
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July 16, 2010 4:22pm
Redbaiter

Pete, when are you commies going to get the message that we need advice on politics from you like we need a hole in the head?? Why the damn hell would we heed advice from a bunch of loons whose primary objective is to defeat us?? What IS wrong with you people that you think your view is worth more than spit??
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July 16, 2010 4:27pm
RKBee

There is hope after all BP have capped the oil leak in the gulf and there has been a compromise reached between Govt and the TRC on party central so work can begin in time for the World Cup….. And then you hear that half the country have gone into mourning over Moko the dolphin.. good grief..

Now we only have the pay the costs of higher oil prices the cost of 9-10 million for a temporary building for the World Cup and the funeral costs for a dolphin… maybe not the dolpin.
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July 16, 2010 5:01pm
Pete George

Why the damn hell would we heed advice from a bunch of loons whose primary objective is to defeat us??

I don’t expect you fundamentalists to heed advice from any bunch of loons.

Neither my primary objective nor any secondary objectives would be to defeat “us”, even if I knew what “us” was. And I don’t spit when I type – ahhh, are you referring to yourself? Does your screen have wipers?

Seriously, how do you think Palin could change enough to appeal to a big enough voting bloc?
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July 16, 2010 5:13pm
Rex Widerstrom

Pete George notes:

Meanwhile Obama donates $2.4b to electric car battery development.

As he would, considering that hydrogen fuel cells offer better range and faster fueling than battery power and that GM, Toyota and others are pouring their development dollars into hydrogen technology. GM alone has spent $1.5 billion on fuel-cell research.

GM, Toyota, Honda, Daimler, Hyundai, Kia, Renault and Nissan are working together to create a fuel-cell vehicle market within five years.

So what does Obama do? Pour taxpayer dollars into competing technology. What’s next for the long-suffering US taxpayer? BP shares because it’s “too big to fail”?
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July 16, 2010 5:20pm
Johnboy

“Meanwhile Obama donates $2.4b to electric car battery development.”

Is that like. “Cullen donates $1.0b to efficent rail transport development”?
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July 16, 2010 5:25pm
dad4justice

Is the sick unit big bruv the full quid?
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July 16, 2010 5:37pm
Bryla

You are a God to me Bedrater! There is NO reason that “lefties” ought enjoy any rights to free speech or opinion-sharing, and your eloquence has convinced me about an epidemic of thought crime that needs to be addressed.

Can you please initiate a Committee of Public safety, and make the necessary lists? “Incinerator” Palin will authorise the executions as soon as she’s in office, along with the global peace-making strikes.

I’ll say no more, and just enjoy the rise and rise of Sarah Palin.
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July 16, 2010 5:39pm
Johnboy

“I’ll say no more.”

Is that a promise Bralys?
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July 16, 2010 5:52pm
Hurf Durf

I’m surprised Catholic women would put up with this. Many of them seem unconcerned about what the old codgers say anyway.

Italy’s Birth Rate is The Second Lowest in the Western World

The birth rate of Italy, at a rate of 1.23 children per woman is the second lowest in the Western world. Women rarely have more than one child.

As an atheist myself, even I can see that this militant policy of the “moderate centre-left” is completely retarded. And, of course, I suppose Delirium expects the North Africans to “enlighten” themselves off Islam, doesn’t he?

Atheists: “enlightening” themselves into extinction.
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July 16, 2010 6:24pm
krazykiwi

Meanwhile Obama donates $2.4b to electric car battery development

Hmmm, rather Obama unilaterally decides to borrow an additional $2.4b from the Chinese and to pass the debt taxpayers and their children.

And in other news, I’ve just received a $NZ105 parking ticket for not parking ‘rear to curb’ in a dedicated parking zone at Cronulla Beach. Apparently the car can’t be driven in forwards to a park, it must be backed in. Filthy scumbags
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July 16, 2010 6:49pm
Shunda barunda

Don’t ya just love it when one beer after a hard days work takes you to happy land?
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July 16, 2010 6:54pm
Shunda barunda

And the second is open.
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July 16, 2010 6:57pm
big bruv

One beer?

Jesus, Shundra, you would be a cheap date 🙂
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July 16, 2010 7:00pm
Rex Widerstrom

Krazykiwi:

Take a leaf from the Chaser boys’ book. Get a safety vest and an officious looking cap, appoint yourself a “citizen’s inpector” and go round giving the parking scumbags tickets for “being a wanker in a restricted area”.

I often park outside the Supreme Court where there’s nothing but 30 minute bays. People are often held up a few minutes in there, so the Council has a parking Nazi just sit there all day pinging people who come to their cars 31 minutes or later.

I was getting out of my car yesterday to put change in the ticket machine and there was already one chalking my tyres and noting my rego, not even waiting till I’d walked off. I “accidentally” kicked him in the ass with my calf as I leaned over to put my ticket on my dash 😀
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July 16, 2010 7:03pm
krazykiwi

@Rex – that Chasers gag is hilarious 😀
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July 16, 2010 7:09pm
big bruv

“I “accidentally” kicked him in the ass with my calf as I leaned over to put my ticket on my dash ”

See Rex, I told you restorative justice is a waste of time 🙂
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July 16, 2010 7:10pm
RKBee

News Flash..

Rare frogs may stop government plans to start mining on the cormandel… and not the common frog on Frog Blog.
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July 16, 2010 7:26pm
Shunda barunda

One beer?

Jesus, Shundra, you would be a cheap date

I know!! perhaps being absolutely rooted has something to do with it (I can barely move) It usually takes at least 2.
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July 16, 2010 7:28pm
Rex Widerstrom

@BB: That is restorative justice!

I was able to sort it out with the offender directly, felt a hell of a lot better afterwards, he felt my pain, and it isn’t costing the taxpayer $100,000 a year to lock the bastard up. Restorative Justice in a nutshell.

I take it that you’re now a convert? 😛
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July 16, 2010 7:33pm
big bruv

Come on now Rex, what you took was revenge, and if you are being honest, it felt bloody good didn’t it.

There was no need for a family group conference, no need for lengthy meetings, it was justice, swift and fair.

Shall I send you the David Garrett tie now or would you prefer an autographed picture of Garth McVicor?
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July 16, 2010 7:37pm
Rex Widerstrom

@BB – there’s as many flavours of Restorative Justice as there are gelati (and some of them are just as off-putting). You’re judging them all on the basis of the seaweed and pistachio flavour.

The victim causing the offender to feel discomfort (if the victim wishes to confront them) and / or getting the offender to repay them, and society, in some way is the flavour I prefer. There might be some hand holding as well but never instead of.

Subject to some rules and some adjudication it’s all about restoring the balance that’s upset when the offender offends. So if some s**tbag graffitis your garden wall you might feel better when he’s cleaned not only that but every bit of graffiti in your neighbourhood. Or maybe you just want your fence cleaned and your garden weeded for the next year. If he misses a day then he gets locked up.

In Aboriginal circles it can even extend to volunteering to be speared by your victim or your victim’s family rather than go to jail. Shall I send you, Garrett and McVicar your Australian citizenship applications by Fastpost? (I’m not sure I can get you accepted into an Aboriginal clan though… can you play the didgeredoo?)
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July 16, 2010 7:50pm
big bruv

There is nothing wrong with a bit of Nori Rex, bloody tasty actually.

I do like your Aboriginal (are the called Native Australians over there yet?) idea, if that is the type of restorative justice you have in mind mate then count me in, I am sure I can even get Garth and David to sign up to that one as well.

Just let me know when you will be back in town so I can arrange the three of you for a photo opportunity, I can see the headline now, “Former foes unite for the right to spear criminal scum”

I am glad you have seen the error of your ways old chap, stick with me and before you know it you will be signing the praises of the mayor of Wanganui 🙂
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July 16, 2010 9:30pm
Haiku Dave

the pope reckons that
buggering kids is almost
as bad as chick priests
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July 16, 2010 11:17pm
Rex Widerstrom

@BB

I’d join Johnboy in the paddock for a bit of ovine obscenity before I find a good word for that individual 😛

I’m all for any form of restorative justice which gets a victim to this point, where they feel at peace. In some cultures that might be a spear to the thigh. In others an ability to confront the offender when the victim geels ready to do so.
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July 16, 2010 11:48pm
Viking2

I Feel the Love.

‘Love’ for PM spurs $105,000 donation
By CLAIRE TREVETT – The Dominion Post
Last updated 05:00 17/07/2010

A top Auckland restaurateur has given $105,000 to the National Party, saying although he was too Right-wing for any political party, his “love” for the prime minister prompted him to do it.

The gift from Parnell’s Antoine’s Restaurant was made in June and disclosed under rules requiring any donations of more than $20,000 to be publicly disclosed within 10 working days of a party receiving them.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/3928514/Love-for-PM-spurs-105-000-donation
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July 17, 2010 8:08am
mattyroo

Rex, if restorative justice can be a “spear to the thigh” in some cultures, that gives a victim peace, why can it not be a drop of the guillotine in my culture?

Or is it only what you and the liberal elite deem allowable for my culture?

Should it not be up to the victim to choose their means of “restorative justice”, if you and your ilk want to take restorative justice to it full extent?
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July 17, 2010 8:36am
big bruv

Go easy on Rex, Mattyroo, he has finally seen the error of his hand holding ways 🙂

Anybody who believes in an eye for an eye style of justice system is not all bad.

Just imagine how cool it would be to watch Burton being shot by his victims father, or see a relation of Susan Couch bash the fuck out of William Bell with a baseball bat?
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July 17, 2010 9:03am
mattyroo

Dead right Bruv. Pity Mallard’s stadium wasn’t built down at the waterfront, we could’ve turned it into a modern day Colosseum and undertaken last rites and “restorative justice” there.

Maybe that is what Mallard had in mind?
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July 17, 2010 9:19am
MikeNZ

excellent haiku dave
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July 17, 2010 10:04am
Pete George

Very uncool for me bb. Lowering to their level would make us a much sicker society.
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July 17, 2010 10:30am

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