General Debate 4 June 2010

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Johnboy

Baaaaaahhh.
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June 4, 2010 10:25am
Johnboy

Its me– its me!!
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June 4, 2010 10:25am
tom hunter

Another day at Kiwiblog – another day for laughing at Leftist theories. This latest is a doozy. It would seem that crime rates are dropping across America everywhere – even though the country is in the worst recession for twenty years. Hence the following headline in a Washington Post Op-Ed: Did liberals get it wrong on crime?

It could be, as conservatives have insisted all along, that crime is committed by criminals. For liberals, this is bad news indeed.

This leads to the following short, sharp evisceration in the blog JustOneMinute

So street thugs are not all Jean Val Jean – who knew? Why this is bad news (other than lefty embarrassment) is not explained – surely the reality-based community is delighted to encounter reality.

Cohen goes on to explain that it may be that culture is the root cause of crime and not economics – leading to further laughter:

Breakthrough stuff. Jennifer Rubin of Commentary is so excited by Cohen’s journey to wisdom that she gets a bit carried away:
This revelation might suggest that liberals re-examine other premises that have proved dangerous… The possibilities in foreign policy are endless. (Let’s start with, “The problem with our policy toward Iran, China, Syria, etc. is that we haven’t tried to engage them.”)

That’ll happen.
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June 4, 2010 10:28am
Chicken Little

Ok, we really need to start having a penis measuring competition immediately after the ritual ‘first’ every morning. It’s all in keeping.

Me = XL 🙂
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June 4, 2010 10:30am
david

Whew – at last the Greens get something right.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/3774836/Bradford-shelves-super-city-ambitions
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June 4, 2010 10:32am
Chicken Little

Tom – I love the US. However, it is a sad, sad country.

Have a read of this blog, set up by an LA Times reporter sick of the one line “unidentified black/latino/white male shot in…..”, and who wanted to give a human face to these anonymous murder victims. It’s fascinating but also very sad.

The Homicide Report
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June 4, 2010 10:38am
tom hunter

Fair enough CL – more humour needed – so here’s a must read piece.

In January 1944 the predeccessor of the CIA, the Office of Strategic Services (OSS), produced a secret document titled Simple Sabotage Field Manual for it’s people operating behind enemy lines.

You might be tempted to think – So What – and it certainly does contain the usual sabotage advice on destroying things. But the real pearlers come in a section titled General Interference with Organizations and Production. Some choice bits:

a) Organizations and Conferences
(1) Insist on doing everything through “channels.” Never permit short-cuts to be taken in order to expedite decisions.

(3) When possible, refer all matters to committees, for “further study and consideration.” Attempt to make the committees as large as possible–never less than five.

(5) Haggle over precise wordings of communications, minutes, resolutions.

(7) Advocate “caution.” Be “reasonable” and urge your fellow-conferees to be “reasonable” and avoid haste which might result in embarrassments or difficulties later on.

Read the whole thing at (of all places) The Volokh Conspiracy in How Dilbert Won The War
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June 4, 2010 10:52am
Bryla

Israel’s worst nightmare – they killed a US citizen. The MV Rachel Corrie is on its way with more.

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/Media/american-killed-gaza-aid-flotilla/story?id=10814848
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June 4, 2010 11:03am
Repton

@tom hunter: I read that article. Quoting:

Whatever the reasons, it now seems fairly clear that something akin to culture and not economics is the root cause of crime. By and large everyday people do not go into a life of crime because they have been laid off or their home is worth less than their mortgage. They do something else, but whatever it is, it does not generally entail packing heat.

As a liberal, that seems reasonable enough to me. New Zealand has a recividism rate of 50% over four years.

If you suggested putting more money into rehabilitation, in order to turn criminals into not-criminals, then I think you would get a lot of support from the liberal left. If you suggested funding programmes to identify kids when they start to go off the rails at a young age, and try to prevent them from becoming criminals, then again, you would get a lot of support from the left.
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June 4, 2010 11:07am
Johnboy

Heaven on earth has finally arrived.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/food-wine/3776709/Marshmallow-ice-cream-conquered
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June 4, 2010 11:19am
Tookinator

Slap down for Mallard…

Did anyone see the put down of Trevor Mallards’ mating habits in Question Time yesterday?
Looks better on the ‘inthehouse’ video but here is the transcript from question 12:

Hon Trevor Mallard: Further to the Minister’s reference to YouTube, I note that only four people have viewed his Federated Farmers speech on YouTube compared with 18,000 who have viewed the analysis in this House of his academic record—is that why he wants to upgrade rural broadband?

Hon STEVEN JOYCE: I confirm that I am very flattered to have my academic record not only celebrated in this House but also viewed by so many people around the country and around the world in celebration of my zoology degree, which included the study of animal behaviour and the mating behaviour of the mallard duck.
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June 4, 2010 11:26am
tom hunter

Repton

Agree – the rehabilitation process here (and in the US) is crap. Unfortunately we’ve all known that for quite some time now and it costs bigtime with young offenders, so……

But there also has to be a recognition that, like any theory, rehabilitation has boundaries beyond which it does not work. So we also have to focus on the small (10%?) of criminals who commit most of the crime – and lock them away for good. Sadly the Bailey kid is probably already at that stage. To me it’s not a question of vengeance but simple pubic safety.

The caveat with your last suggestion – identifying kids going off the rails at a young age – is the implication that to be truly effective it might mean removing the kids entirely from their environment. I don’t know that there would be much support for that from the civil liberties groups and I’m not sure I’m entirely comfortable with the idea of the State effectively kidnapping it’s citizens!

I was being a bit provocative simply because I’ve had decades of left-wingers bemoaning to me about poverty, poverty, poverty being the primary cause of crime – not to mention the usual self-satisified conclusions about the need to address this societal problem with huge, well-planned, subtle government efforts – and the associated lofty dismissal of right-wing theories as simple-minded, ignorant, revenge-filled,….(add perjorative of choice).

I recall, after the Bailey Kurariki murder trial, Bomber trying to explain that it was less about poverty than how criminals perceived their poverty – that they were constantly presented with visions of a wealthy society of cars, clothes, and glamour that was out of their reach. An eye-rolling extension of the theory for me, hence the enjoyment of Cohen’s piece.
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June 4, 2010 11:28am
dime

Was bloody cold on the way to work, so i chose to have a pie. it was fucking glorious!!!
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June 4, 2010 11:48am
JiveKitty

@Tom Hunter: I’d certainly agree that characterising crime as caused by poverty is overly simplistic. Poverty may be a factor, but it is not the only factor or even necessarily the most important factor. I would suggest that poverty in the sense of an inability to function above subsistence is not the most important factor in the case of New Zealand as there is a fairly good socialised safety net. Relative poverty may be more relevant, but if that’s so, the relative poverty is not the driver of crime, it’s things such as ingrained beliefs around deservedness – a jealousy function perhaps (e.g. “That person’s richer than me. I work hard, therefore they shouldn’t have as much.” or even “Why do they have so much and I have so little? I shouldn’t have to work hard to get ahead in life.”), asymmetries of information and bounded rationality (in the example I gave where “I work hard”, there isn’t necessarily a consideration of how hard the other works to get what they have or even the ability to consider logically the whys and wherefores of why somebody else is better off).

And then there’re other facets such as considering it as economic decision where one determines their gain from breaking the law will give them more utility than they would otherwise receive (possibly, but not necessarily, discounting the probability of legal consequences eventuating or even the degree of severity – because their rationality is bounded).
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June 4, 2010 11:59am
RKBee

The mayor of New Plymouth has lost his licence for driving his Porsche at 145 km hr in a 100 km area. The day before he used his casting vote to ensure a speed reduction on city’s airport road from 100km to 85km sighting that he was a reducing speed advocate.
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June 4, 2010 12:04pm
Repton

The caveat with your last suggestion – identifying kids going off the rails at a young age – is the implication that to be truly effective it might mean removing the kids entirely from their environment. I don’t know that there would be much support for that from the civil liberties groups and I’m not sure I’m entirely comfortable with the idea of the State effectively kidnapping it’s citizens!

“removing the kids entirely from their environment.” Isn’t that the “boot camp” policy advocated by National? (is that still on the agenda?)

A philosophical question for you: suppose you had a way of testing children at, say, age 10, to determine if they will become career criminals. Suppose that if the test says “yes”, there is a 99% chance that the child will become a career criminal. Suppose further that the child has not yet committed any serious crimes (perhaps some minor shoplifting, nothing more). Is the state justified in locking up that child for life?

(does your answer change if the chance rises to 100%? Or if it drops to 90%?)
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June 4, 2010 12:06pm
Inventory2

The Laws Era in W(h)anganui will end on 9th October …

http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2010/06/laws-not-standing.html
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June 4, 2010 12:16pm
Patrick Starr

Bryla – is this an inconvenient truth?

“Turkish charity that sent aid convoy to Gaza ‘has links to terrorism’
“Despite their claims to be an entirely peaceful organisation, The Foundation for Human Rights, Freedoms and Humanitarian Relief (IHH) has a history of involvement in Islamic extremism around the world and has been linked with an attempted bombing of an airport in the US.”

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article7142977.ece
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June 4, 2010 12:36pm
tom hunter

A philosophical question for you: suppose you……

….rented Gattica and Minority Report for the weekend and analysed their meaning?

Okay, I’m being facetious. But I’m doing so because it seems to me that immersing ourselves in philosophy on this issue is one of the reasons that we are where we are. Too many people simply used (and still use) the poverty=crime idea (which sounds okay at the infamous ‘common-sense’ level) as a lever to promote their favoured ideology of an ever expanding social welfare.

I’ve long got the impression from such promoters, that once society had been hooked up to such programs there was no longer a need to ask whether they had actually suceeded in reducing crime – because that was merely incidental to the real argument – and the question would only be worth addressing again if the need arose to increase social welfare, or fight against its reduction.

Perhaps a better starting point would be to do the following:
– try to establish some set of measurable indicators that can indicate when a kid is ‘going off the rails’ (school absenteeism +poor grades+minor crimes+????)

– establishment of halfway houses run by charity groups, truly reformed criminals(??), and others ????? – where these kids could be placed so that there families can still contact them under supervised conditions. The halfway house would provide education (esp. technical as that is a good basis for leading on to more information-based skills).

– legal restrictions on the interactions of the kids and their associates/families during this period – a type of civil restraint order? Perhaps with some exit conditions based on school attendance, grades, skills, further crime.

– have the half-way houses graded in order of restrictions imposed: do what you’re supposed to do and you move up to a more relaxed halfway-house, refuse and you move down until you land in borstal?

Perhaps this does cover the ‘boot-camp’ scenario? Perhaps borstal already does? Perhaps the damned half-way house idea is crap because the little buggers would simply treat it as another opportunity to get together with like-minded souls.

But whatever the strengths and weaknesses of such ideas I would rather talk about those than some, damned hypothetical possibility involving the age-old debate about nature vs. nurture. Maybe genetic analysis will resolve this, but I doubt it, and in any case we cannot sit around waiting for that solution.
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June 4, 2010 12:40pm
Kris K

tom hunter 11:28 am,

The caveat with your last suggestion – identifying kids going off the rails at a young age – is the implication that to be truly effective it might mean removing the kids entirely from their environment. I don’t know that there would be much support for that from the civil liberties groups and I’m not sure I’m entirely comfortable with the idea of the State effectively kidnapping it’s citizens!

Is adoption the answer?

Of course this raises the issue regarding the state encouraging women, often single/unmarried, to view having children as primarily a means of income via the DPB, rather than the state encouraging them to have children within the stable confines of a two parent family. That many/most of our hardened and violent criminals come from the former type of environment surely belies the heart of the issue; children that come from unstable and/or unloving environments are more likely to be socially/emotionally disadvantaged/damaged, and are therefore more likely to go onto a life of crime and violence.

If, rather than encouraging single women to view children as a meal ticket, we were to encourage these same women to put up their children for (closed) adoption would this not largely achieve in advance the “removing the kids entirely from their [unhealthy] environment”, and thereby eliminate much of the violent and criminal offending (ie the worst 10% of criminals) from our nation?
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June 4, 2010 12:52pm
Pauleastbay

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/3775822/Detained-Kiwi-tells-of-horrible-conditions

I hope it was really uncomfortable you busy body bitch, mind your own business and you can use the toilet any time you want
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June 4, 2010 1:01pm
RRM

Life with 20 non-parole for killer of 80yo Manurewa resident:
http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/7344135/life-imprisonment-for-ah-you/

Good. While he’s inside may his anus be raped often, and vigorously.
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June 4, 2010 1:03pm
Johnboy

If his arse looks as pimply as his ugly dial I doubt that even the sisters will bum him.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/3776258/Grandmothers-killer-jailed-for-20-years
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June 4, 2010 1:09pm
Put it away

Brya how many tears do you think will shed in the US for a turkish terrorist wannabe ? Yawn
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June 4, 2010 1:24pm
Johnboy

Was the spokesman absolutely sure about this.

“The Beehive houses Government ministers with the Prime Minister’s office on the ninth floor and the Cabinet room on the tenth, or top floor. The spokesman said there were no indications any drips had made it through to the Cabinet room.”

What about Nick Smith? 🙂

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10649380
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June 4, 2010 1:36pm
cha

?.

http://cliftonchadwick.wordpress.com/2010/06/02/turkish-bloodbath-ankara-ambushes-israel-at-sea-bad-omens/
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June 4, 2010 1:44pm
Pauleastbay

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/3776701/Knifepoint-sex-attack-Offender-jailed

This guy was not given Preventive detention because………………..When he was in jail last time for rape he did not have a chance to attend any courses about why he shouldn’t rape women………FFS
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June 4, 2010 1:56pm
Put it away

Can’t help but thinking if someone needs a course to explain why they shouldn’t be raping women, it’s already too late. Lock the shipping container and drop it in the ocean. XT mobile optional…
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June 4, 2010 2:16pm
Jack5

Another topic for a mo.. a minor quibble.

Radio NZ’s web site today lists anti-nuclear activist, Royal Navy retired commander Robert Green as:

… the only ex-British navy commander to have come out against nuclear weapons.

Radio NZ seems confused about naval ranks. “Commander” is the equivalent of “lieutenant-colonel” in the army or wing commander in the Commonwealth air forces. In both Commonwealth navies and the American Navy “commander” is the rank below captain.

The peaceniks probably prefer us to think that Green is something more like a former commander in chief, or perhaps someone above an admiral.
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June 4, 2010 3:30pm
Kris K

Is Radical Fundamentalist Islam the problem, or is the problem actually the system of Islam itself?

As someone here who basically holds the view that it is not merely Radical Islam, but the very system if Islam itself which is the problem regarding Islamic terrorism; and the global threat it presents – it is refreshing to find an author who holds a similar view to myself, and puts his case with clarity and factual basis:

[I have added emphasis to highlight my point of view]

The Grand Jihad: A word from the author

Andrew McCarthy is the former Assistant United States Attorney who prosecuted the Blind Sheikh and his friends for the 1993 World Trade Center bombing. After he secured convictions, he recounted what he had learned along the way in Willful Blindness: A Memoir of the Jihad. When it comes to the subject of civilian trials for unlawful enemy combatants and of the Islamist war against the United States, McCarthy is like Walt Whitman: He is the man, he suffer’d, he was there. I find myself returning to this book regularly.

And McCarthy has stayed on the case. In The Grand Jihad: How Islam and the Left Sabotage America, published last week, McCarthy follows up with a closely argued account of Islamist designs on, and inroads in, the United States.

In a sense, the book provides a counterpart to David Horowitz’s The Unholy Alliance: Radical Islam and the American Left, whose argument McCarthy cites below. Whereas Horowitz’s book focused on the Left, McCarthy focuses on the Islamists, elaborating on events that have occurred and lessons we have learned since Horowitz’s book was published in 2004.

Among these events are a few in our own backyard, including the election of Minnesota Fifth District Rep. Keith Ellison in 2006, a man who embodies the alliance between Islam and the Left. McCarthy rightly calls Ellison “CAIR’s congressman.” McCarthy also discusses the case of the flying imams — a case he calls “the sabotage campaign in action”– arising from an incident at the Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport after an imams’ conference at which Ellison had spoken. McCarthy also devotes an entire chapter to “The Enclave of Minnesota.”

I’ve been after Andy to provide us something on his new book for readers of Power Line from the time I heard he was writing the book. He has graciously responded with this hard-hitting account of his hard-hitting book:
********

As a faithful Power Line reader, I am as thrilled as I am grateful to be able to say a few words here about my new book, The Grand Jihad: How Islam and the Left Sabotage America.

What is surprising, and dismaying, is that the book’s message should come as news to anyone, as if there were real question about whether such a grand jihad exists. Though our opinion elites and their media allies remain desperate to suppress the story, the proof of an Islamist conspiracy to destroy the West is stark and undeniable, and the instances of Islamists being aided and abetted by Leftists are too numerous for serious people to deny the alliance – not merger but alliance – between the two.

As demonstrated at the Holy Land Foundation terrorist financing trials in Texas, internal Muslim Brotherhood memoranda are unabashed in describing Islamists as engaged in a “civilizational” war against the West. In America, the Brothers attest that theirs is a “grand jihad” to destroy the United States – mainly from within, mainly by “sabotage.”

I use the term Islamist advisedly. In the book’s second chapter, I’ve tried to take on the excruciating question of whether the existential challenge we face is Islam itself. On this, besides views I’ve developed over the last 17 years, I read widely and consulted learned people on both sides of this question, several of whom I’m fortunate to call friends. When I was finally done writing the chapter, and rereading it for the zillionth time, I thought maybe I should rewrite it, to make it shorter and just get to the bottom line. But I decided to leave it as is. If it seems throughout as though I am having an argument with myself, it is because I am, and the argument is anything but settled.

The problem is that those who say Islam is the problem have the better case. I was first struck by this sad fact during our terrorism trial in 1995, when I had to get ready to cross-examine the “Blind Sheikh,” Omar Abdel Rahman. Though he ended up opting not to testify, I still had to prepare. Back then I thought that if what we were saying as a government were true – if these terrorists were lying about Islam and perverting its doctrine in order to justify mass-murder attacks – then surely I should be able to locate three or four places where the Blind Sheikh had misstated the Koran and the other species of Muslim scripture. I searched high and low, but there were none.

To be sure, Islamic scriptures say a lot of things, and some of them are admirable. Good faith contentions can surely be made that passages terrorists cite need to be considered in conjunction with other passages they omit. (That’s a weak argument, by the way, but not a risible one.) But the point is that where the Blind Sheikh cited scripture, he did it quite accurately. Moreover, he is not, as we’d like to have it, a lunatic; he is a renowned doctor of Islamic jurisprudence graduated from al-Azhar University in Egypt – the seat of Sunni learning and one of the oldest and most respected academic institutions in the world. His construction of Islam, however frightening, was literal and cogent.

Islam is not a religion of peace and Islamic doctrine is not moderate. There is, for those willing to pierce political correctness and grapple with fact, an undeniable connection between Islamic doctrine’s commands to violence and domination, on the one hand, and on the other hand, the often savage acts and the civilizational campaign carried out by Muslims against the West. For that reason, Islam is very problematic. There is, however, the other side of the coin: there are hundreds of millions of Muslims who, quite clearly, are moderate, tolerant people. These Muslims either reject terrorism (at least in the form of sneak attacks that kill civilians in the U.S.) or they don’t see terrorism as having anything to do with them. Thus, people who don’t want to grapple with Islamic doctrine point to these tolerant, moderate Muslim individuals and demand that we deduce that Islam, too, must be moderate and tolerant – regardless of what its scriptures say.

But this “Islam is as Muslims do” approach is no more a rationale for giving Islam a pass than it would be for condemning Islam based on the actions of the terrorists. More importantly, to convince the people who need convincing – namely, Muslims, not Western intellectuals – there must be a cogent, persuasive construction of Islamic doctrine that can compete effectively with the ideology that fuels the terrorist attacks and the broader plot to destroy the West from within. The latter ideology is an instinctive turn-off to Westerners because it is supremacist, totalitarian, and violent. Yet, it happens to be an ideology drawn faithfully and logically from scripture – which is why it is endorsed by so many influential clerics and shariah authorities who have spent their lives in Islamic study.

As I point out in The Grand Jihad, it is fair enough to conclude that peculiarities of al Qaeda ideology are favored by only a fringe of the world’s Muslims. Here, I refer to the claim that it is legitimate to kill even other Muslims who reject the terror network’s strict interpretation of Islam. Now, I find even that fringe distressing. After all, 10 percent of 1.4 billion Muslims is a lot of people.

Here, though, is the truly distressing part. In 2007, the University of Maryland joined with the pollster World Public Opinion to survey Muslim views in nations across the Middle East, North Africa and Southeast Asia – i.e., both Arab and non-Arab Muslims. They found that about two-thirds (65.5 percent) endorsed the requirement of “a strict application of sharia law in every Islamic country.” About the same number wanted to see all Muslim countries unified under a single caliphate, a position shared even by half of Muslims in Indonesia – where one of the most moderate brands of Islam in the world is practiced. These findings match up with other disturbing figures – like the 93 percent of young Palestinians (and 75 percent of all Palestinians) who deny Israel’s right to exist, and the 40 percent of British Muslims who would like to see sharia become the law of England.
[cont]

If these statistics regarding Muslims and their worldview, hopes and aims don’t concern you, then you haven’t been listening … or worse; you’re dead from the neck up. And that the liberal left are largely complicit with the aims and intents of Islam reveals just what treacherous traitors they are to Western democracy and freedom.
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June 4, 2010 3:34pm
Luc Hansen

Latest reaearch on global temperatures conforms that global warming on decadal time scales is continuing without letup. and 2010 is on track to be the warmest year ever recorded. Furthermore, as the Guardian reports, Arctic sea ice is currently at an historic low.

This is an important paper from NASA, providing extensive background and evidence-based rebuttal of the common contrarian arguments. It has not yet been peer-reviewed, but has been submitted to the journal Reviews of Geophysics. The instrumental temperature graph on its own is well worth a look.

The fact is that James Hansen’s 1980 House testimony is proving incredibly resilient and remarkably accurate thirty years later. governments are going to have to wake up to the urgency very quickly, or we run the risk of reaching tipping points at which we become mere onlookers as the halcyon Holocene humans thrived under disappears in a relatively short time, with a new climate harmful to our civilisation well in evidence by the end of this century – a new journey that could be called: planet earth, destination unknown
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June 4, 2010 3:52pm
krazykiwi

Shit its cold today.

As for sea ice, ever notice how the alarmists talk Arctic sea ice losses, but fail to mention the corresponding increases in Antarctic ice? Global volumes remain virtually the same, and no one can explain the ice oscillation from one pole to the other.

Also, Arctic Ice Volume Has Increased 25 Percent Since May 2008.
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June 4, 2010 4:03pm
side show bob

Hi Luc, did you hear the marvelous news?. If you are still putting together that emergency kit you can now leave out the life raft, should save you heaps. The magazine NewScientist reports that of a study of 27 South Pacific islands 4 shrunk in size, 23 remained the same or gained size. Praise the Lord Luc, hallelujah, we are saved.
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June 4, 2010 5:02pm
krazykiwi

Furthermore, as the Guardian reports, Arctic sea ice is currently at an historic low.

And lo it was so reported in the Guardian, that bastion of truth, and said report was thereafter cited in the IPCC’s AR5, without peer-review (for how can one peer review a newspaper article?), and it was deemed suitable evidence for policy makers to lament that, yes, yes, we have a problem and more tax will indeed save the world.

But by that time, fewer still fell for the ruse.

And it failed.

Again.

Despite the impassioned cries of the True Worshipers.
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June 4, 2010 5:25pm
Hurf Durf

Computer models? Bullshit? You don’t say.

As for the MV Rachel Corrie – I wondered if Israel has perfected the art of air-dropping bulldozers onto moving targets?
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June 4, 2010 6:41pm
Viking2

So Key is now showing his true self. Self righteous , sanctimonious prick would be the description.

The news tonight tells us the Tim Gosser, a man who has done more for NZ than Key ever will has been told off by the self righteous one for being drunk and noisy on a flight home from Dubai.
Now that would be the same trip the the self righteous one went on only, to abandon the business people and Mr Grosser in the middle of the trip and the signing of important trade links, to flit off home to mummy because of a helicopter crash and the resultant funerals for which he was not needed.
He abandoned a very significant trade delegation for a photo opp.
Not so Mr Grosser, he went the full distance representing as he always does NZ’s best interests and kept faith with the trade delegation and the people with who they had meetings planned. Grosser covered Keys arse all the way and all that despite the death of his mother during this trade trip. Somewhat more personal than some aircrew enjoying a day out.(not disparaging the aircrew but putting things in a world Prime Ministerial context.)

This is a continuation of the Lehman we are the world look at me bullshit.
This is the growing its” my country and I’ll do what I want”attitude that Key has exhibited since being annointed as PM.
Just look back and wonder. smacking, taxes, RMA, ETS, Maori party, Tuhoe the list goes on,etc etc.

The last person to adopt that attitude was another banker who said” it’s my bank (railway and I’ll do what I like”
Remember them. Both their companies went broke at the expense of the taxpayer and the enrichment of the bankers.

Key will not keep many friends in high places if he continues with this attitude towards others.

What is even more scandalous is that Key reacted to a complaint by some winger and made it public. Either it was minor and key should have told Grosser in confidence to mind his manners or it was a sackable offense. Given I doubt the latter he should pull his head in and behave like a grown up. Few people in this country are beholding to him He is our servant and needs reminding so.
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June 4, 2010 7:39pm
big bruv

“The news tonight tells us the Tim Gosser, a man who has done more for NZ than Key ever will has been told off by the self righteous one for being drunk and noisy on a flight home from Dubai.”

Fuck me!..this passes for news?

I wonder if our media would have reported it had Chris Carter had a drunken tiff with his “partner” on a flight?
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June 4, 2010 7:48pm
starboard

Fuck me!..this passes news?

..2 flys rooting is news in the eyes of TVNZ…and TV3 for that matter…
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June 4, 2010 8:01pm
reid

Viking, don’t you think he should have stamped on this?

It’s just public bollocks, Grosser’s just come back from being the first country to open free trade with Russia.

I would have been drinking pretty heavily myself.

Luckily Dover wasn’t with him.
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June 4, 2010 8:05pm
Jack5

Heh Lucy (3.52 post). Don’t worry about global warming and the piddling trifle of carbon dioxide NZ generates.

There’s a lot more that may go up from Burma. These guys want an atomic bomb it seems, and if they try to do it themselves, well…. up will go a mighty cloud of CO2 and strontium etc.

The link:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jun/04/burma-nuclear-weapons
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June 4, 2010 8:13pm
Viking2

That’s what I said. Grosser with Mike Moore has done more for NZ than Key will ever achieve.
BB the point really is that Key is behaving like a dick head school teacher and resorting to the I’m the boss, I control the money shit that is entrenched in the Parliamentary whipping system.

Like Helen, if Key is making noise about something what is he not telling us about. I simply don’t trust him, having given him the benefit of some time to show his mettle.I’m left with the distinct unease that I now know who leaked Brashes emails.
\I did think it was someone else and may yet enlightened but I don’t think so.
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June 4, 2010 8:20pm
Johnboy

“..2 flys rooting is news in the eyes of TVNZ…and TV3 for that matter…”

I don’t think so.
But after reading todays Wikipedia two bedbugs rooting IS fucking news my son.

They make the old guy with the condom on the jury look normal. Yuk!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traumatic_insemination
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June 4, 2010 8:36pm
big bruv

“The complaint was received from someone who was not on the flight but knew people who had been on it. ”

This is even worse than I expected.

So, some pinko fucktard hears about Grosser from a mate of a mate, he or she then contacts one of the morons at the Standard and they decide to make as much noise about it as possible.

The only way Key should have dealt with this was to tell the pinko who made the complaint to go and get fucked.
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June 4, 2010 8:44pm
Johnboy

If the pinko fucktard was say Chris Carter and he did what Key should have told him to do it could have turned out even more YUK than the bedbugs fucking though BB.
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June 4, 2010 8:54pm
MikeNZ

Kris K (2376) Says:
June 4th, 2010 at 3:34 pm

It’s such a good piece isn’t it.
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June 4, 2010 8:56pm
Viking2

Key is behaving more like that other stupid prick from Nelson everyday. What is it with them. Certainly not leadership material.
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June 4, 2010 9:05pm
MikeNZ

http://www.andrewbostom.org/
http://www.andrewbostom.org/content/view/71/55/

For example, during a Friday sermon broadcasted live on June 6, 2001 on PA TV, from the Sheik â€˜Ijlin Mosque in Gaza, Palestinian Authority employee Sheik Muhammad Ibrahim Al-Madhi reiterated these sentiments with regard to Jews:

We welcome, as we did in the past, any Jew who wants to live in this land as a Dhimmi, just as the Jews have lived in our countries, as Dhimmis, and have earned appreciation, and some of them have even reached the positions of counselor or minister here and there. We welcome the Jews to live as Dhimmis, but the rule in this land and in all the Muslim countries must be the rule of Allah.

Kris
All this info is available for educated people to read to buy and digest, history calls out to us, yet they persist in ignoring it.
Why? when it is a road map to the future if we don’t pay attention.
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June 4, 2010 9:06pm
Hurf Durf

I bang into my keyboard routinely about the Islamist threat, about how future generations will ultimately suffer if the religious version of fascism keeps gaining an increasing amount of power in the West and the consequential erasure of basic rights fought for for centuries, of just being able to sleep peacefully at night, and the death toll that would ensue.

Now watch this video. These are the children of Lauren Booth, former British Prime Minister Tony Blair’s sister-in-law. Former leader of Labour – the party of treason.

I wonder if these people – their parents – even deserve to be saved.
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June 4, 2010 9:14pm
MikeNZ

No one deserves Dhimmitude.
Yeah, like their educated parents actually know what Dhimmitude is.
as I linked yesterday and Kris reinforced today.

http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2010/06/israel_wrong.html#comment-700784

there is this connect between the Left and Islam right now.
I think they think that strategically if they assist Islam getting rid of Judeo-Christianity in society and the wiorld and then they will prevail over Islam somehow.
Duh
That they are so arrogant and prideful in their hearts is hard to fathom as they come across so measured and reasonable.
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June 4, 2010 9:28pm
nickb

Bruv if you are reading thought this would give you a chuckle:

http://blog.greens.org.nz/2010/06/03/miss-universe-contestants-at-parliament/
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June 4, 2010 9:53pm
krazykiwi

I think they think that strategically if they assist Islam getting rid of Judeo-Christianity in society and the wiorld and then they will prevail over Islam somehow.

@MikeNZ- Yes, I’ve come to a similar conclusion. Judeo-Christianity is a blight on humanity as far as the Marxist left are concerned. Their adoption “the enemy of my enemy is my friend” strategy is a tragic mis-calculation in my view.
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June 4, 2010 10:20pm

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