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June 26, 2010 9:34am by David Farrar

General Debate 26 June 2010

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Viking2

Actually it time our big business came out from behind their mothers skirts and publicly told Keysmith that they should refrain from trying to lead the world.
Fonterra, the supplier of 25% of our export income has been strangely quiet on the ETS and Van der Hayden should be outed for being so. Its time for him to make their stance known publicly and he should be telling these two pollies where to get off.
Problem of course is that the Govt. have got Fonterra by the nuts and if Van der Hayden speaks out they will squeeze his nut till he sequels. Well good for then we will know all about the National Socialists and their control mentality.

Van der Hayden’s shareholders are the biggest group of people to be affected in any industry, they will be just about the most affected and yet Fonterra have sat on their hands being polite. That needs to stop and we need some robust, open argument from them.If they choose not to go public then we have every right to expect not one whimper from any diary farmer about the extra costs they are going to have. Not a single whimper for they have failed themselves.

The other energy intensive industries are not that much better. We need to ask why and its a certainty that the punitive threats that would descend upon them have them hiding behind their skirts.

All a shade of Helen and Rudd which demonstrates that the current leadership is of the same mold.

Sad really that govt.’s have to behave this way.
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June 26, 2010 5:33pm
Redbaiter

Check out the top story on Crusader Rabbit for an example of how black hole dense the left are, and why it is so easy for education subversives to indoctrinate them-

http://crusader-rabbit.blogspot.com/
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June 26, 2010 5:34pm
Viking2

Perhaps the Statuary management was to stop the raiders from raiding what is left in the cupboard? May well be the right thing to protect Hubbard.
Don’t know but think its a possibility.
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June 26, 2010 5:37pm
Pete George

The top story…

Honestly, what the @#$% happened to us human beings, we’ve been on this planet for more than 2000 years at least “

At least that’s not wrong. But I agree, what sort of education?
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June 26, 2010 5:42pm
Viking2

http://fairfactsmedia.com/?p=2103
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June 26, 2010 5:45pm
Viking2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1Wd26tYgR0&feature=player_embedded
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June 26, 2010 5:56pm
F E Smith

Pauleastbay: the ‘Church’ is always described in the feminine, so Kris K is not being derogatory in any way.

As far as I understand it, that is.
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June 26, 2010 6:25pm
Manolo

The relentess brainwashing of children by the left: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704853404575322860798054430.html?mod=WSJ_ArtsEnt_LifestyleArtEnt_4#articleTabs%3Darticle\
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June 26, 2010 6:35pm
Lucia Maria

F E Smith,

You’re correct.

Except, that Kris, I believe, thinks of the Roman Catholic Church as “The Whore of Babylon”.

So can be both non derogatory and derogatory at the same time.
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June 26, 2010 6:37pm
Paul Egerton

The probelem is, notwithstanding anything Lucina may say, the Roman Catholic Church is the handmaiden of Satan, the single most evil institution on Earth.

The Pope gets pissed off that Belgian police “violate the sanctity” of a Belgian cathedral while Ratzinger doesn’t give a Rat’s Arse about the violation of children carried out and covered up on his watch.

The quicker all the priests are in jail the safer our children will be
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June 26, 2010 6:47pm
Kris K

F E Smith 6:25 pm,

Pauleastbay: the ‘Church’ is always described in the feminine, so Kris K is not being derogatory in any way.

As far as I understand it, that is.

Thanks for pointing that out, FES, and you’re quite right.
I also describe the nation of Israel in the feminine – a nation I greatly admire and respect.
********

Lucia Maria 6:37 pm,

Except, that Kris, I believe, thinks of the Roman Catholic Church as “The Whore of Babylon”.

And whether or not I regard that statement to be true, assigning the feminine to the RC church was not with that claim in mind. Remember that the church, the body of Christ, is also described as the Bride of Christ; hence the feminine attribution.

And just as the true church of Jesus Christ is the Bride of Christ, the end times false ‘church’ is identified as the Whore of Babylon – the one under the authority of the second beast of Revelation; the one identified as the False Prophet. Once again I do not believe this to be a particular denomination or church per se, but rather a body of believers who submit to a false gospel under the Antichrist (the first beast); those who receive his number and his mark, and embrace him as the [false] messiah.
The Antichrist; the one in place of Christ.

So if the RC church is PART of the Whore she won’t be alone. I believe the Muslims will be another part of the Great Whore, together with all other false religions when they unify under the authority of the Antichrist.
Watch this space …
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June 26, 2010 7:03pm
Rex Widerstrom

JiveKitty asks:

@Rex: Any idea if this is true?: http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/60261.html

What JK is asking about is this:

Police Tasered an 86-year-old disabled grandma in her bed and stepped on her oxygen hose until she couldn’t breathe, after her grandson called 911 seeking medical assistance, the woman and her grandson claim in Oklahoma City Federal Court. Though the grandson said, “Don’t Taze my granny!” an El Reno police officer told another cop to “Taser her!” and wrote in his police report that he did so because the old woman “took a more aggressive posture in her bed,” according to the complaint.

Well it’s a they said / they said situation, but the plaintiffs (the grandson and grandmother) have filed suit in the US District Court. Thus if any of what they say before the court is found to be untrue they could conceivably be charged with perjury, or more likely have the finding go against them and substantial damages awarded to the police. So given the risk they’re running – not just in court but of inevitably becoming the targets of unwanted attention by everyone in a blue uniform, then I’d be placing my bets on the complainants.

But of course that’s yet another story of misuse of Tasers by American police. Never going to happen here, because the type of person motivated to become a police officer in the US is totally different to the type that gets employed in NZ. No arrogant bullies on our force, no siree.

Oooo look, a unicorn.
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June 26, 2010 7:05pm
philu

so…everyone … apart from you…

racist/sexist/bigot that you are…

..every inch a paid up member of that poisonous corner of christianity…the christian fascists..

everyone apart from you..is part of ‘the great whore’…?

fuck..!.you are hilarious..!

you couldn’t make this shit up..

someone should do a reality tv show around you…

i’d watch…

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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June 26, 2010 7:09pm
Pete George

The relentless brainwashing by the right
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June 26, 2010 7:23pm
Lucia Maria

Kris,

So you believe to be true, but you are not 100% certain?

That’s like a ray of sunshine! 🙂

Don’t know what Pete is going on about.
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June 26, 2010 7:26pm
reid

http://www.drillingahead.com/forum/topics/transocean-deepwater-horizon-1

Apologies for not picking up prior, matty.
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June 26, 2010 7:41pm
starboard

you’ve really got a flee in your arse about the NZ Police havent you Rex.
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June 26, 2010 7:45pm
Kris K

Lucia Maria 7:26 pm,

Kris,

So you believe to be true, but you are not 100% certain?

Let’s just say I’m practicing being diplomatic.

I think I’ve aptly described just who the true church of Jesus Christ is, just as I’ve also described who will make up the the false church under the Antichrist and the False Prophet; the Whore of Babylon. Quite simple really – one group worships and serves Christ, the other Antichrist. It’s what the Bible says, and not just my opinion.
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June 26, 2010 8:06pm
Redbaiter

“The quicker all the priests are in jail the safer our children will be.”

There is actually a far greater degree of sexual abuse in the secular public schools system, but don’t let that facts interfere with your rancid bigotry and cowardly smearing of good people.

I hope you’re not a teacher. I shouldn’t think it would be a good idea to have anyone so clearly twisted with hate and intolerance as yourself near any children.
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June 26, 2010 8:06pm
Redbaiter

“Don’t know what Pete is going on about.”

Who does? An irrational and brain damaged communist whose mission here is to paint everyone who doesn’t agree with Keynesian economic theories, Marxist political theories, and every wet weak social liberal idea out there as from another planet.

If he ever recovers from the brain damage he’s obviously suffered at some time in his miserable life he’d wake up to the reality that he is the real fringe dweller, and getting more fringe every day. As this graph shows so well.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/141032/2010-Conservatives-Outnumber-Moderates-Liberals.aspx
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June 26, 2010 8:10pm
Kris K

Phool 7:09 pm,

If you want to know the truth, Phool, then don’t just trust me, but may I suggest you read the Bible for yourself. I also suggest that you pray for wisdom and guidance that God will give you understanding of that which you read.

But either way, it really is your choice …

[night all]
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June 26, 2010 8:16pm
Redbaiter

“I hope you’re not a teacher.”

Whoops, an error I think. Responded to one of the most stinking and contemptible cowards in the blogosphere, back under yet another identity in his attempts to defeat the demerits system.

A repugnant attention seeking POS I usually prefer to ignore.
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June 26, 2010 8:18pm
Pete George

If he ever recovers from the brain damage he’s obviously suffered at some time in his miserable life he’d wake up to the reality that he is the real fringe dweller, and getting more fringe every day. As this poll shows so well.

http://curiablog.wordpress.com/2010/06/20/tv3-poll-june-2010/

The Redbaiter Revolutionary Freedom Fighters are where in this?

An irrational and brain damaged findamentalist whose mission here is to paint everyone who doesn’t agree with with him as deep in Keynesian economic theories, Marxist political theories, and every wet weak social liberal idea out there as from another planet.
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June 26, 2010 8:27pm
Yvette

There are approximately 46000 Roman Catholic priests in the USA, and so far 300 lawsuits, suggesting between 7 and 6 priests in 1000 are a problem.
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June 26, 2010 8:30pm
Yvette

Sorry – misinfomation! – this article further down contradicts itself :
“Since 1985, an estimated 1,400 sexual abuse lawsuits have been filed against priests.” – http://www.allaboutreligion.org/catholic-priests.htm
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June 26, 2010 8:34pm
Redbaiter

“The Redbaiter Revolutionary Freedom Fighters are where in this?”

Hahha- that’s funny. Probably more people chose not to vote than voted for your party.
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June 26, 2010 8:51pm
Luc Hansen

A response to Garth George just submitted to the Herald with particular reference to regular Kiwiblog contributor, Alan Wilkinson.

>blockquote>I fear that only God could satisfy the standards of proof required by the likes of Garth George and Alan Wilkinson. In the absence of such divine revelation, we mere humans must respect the views of the most highly qualified scientists amongst us, even though they inevitably fall short of omniscience.

I challenge Mr Wilkinson to name one internationally or even nationally recognised scientific academy or society that dissents from the overwhelming scientific consensus as reflected in the IPCC reports.

However, misinformed contrarians aside, the objections to ETS are legitimate in that they do not assure a reduction in emissions.

As NASA scientist James Hansen points out, repeating the advice attributed to Einstein that no problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it, the corporates who exploited our addiction to fossil fuels cannot be relied upon to administer the withdrawal programme.

Hansen advocates a fully refunded carbon tax: the gross receipts are divided by the number of individual taxpayers, who each receive a cheque for that amount. The incentive to reduce carbon use is both timely and clear and the corporates will respond in kind.

On reflection, I had 5 letters left and I could have replaced “corporate” in the final sentence with “invisible hand” which would have made understanding easier for the more mentally challenged amongst us. Oh well, never mind.
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June 26, 2010 9:09pm
Luc Hansen

Friday haiku with apologies for lateness – I’ve been busy.

assassin terminated
long live the assassin
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June 26, 2010 9:12pm
philu

“..If you want to know the truth, Phool, then don’t just trust me, but may I suggest you read the Bible for yourself. ..”

so..the bible will tell me that hating/bigoted/homophobe/racist christian-fascists like yrslf…

..are ‘the way and the light’…?

..and everyone is ‘the whore of babylon’..eh..?

like i say…you are screaming out for a fly-on-the-wall reality-doco…

..i am sure the minuitae of you/yr existance would be fascinating..

..in a repellent kinda way…

do you realiise how seriously demented your ravings are…?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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June 26, 2010 9:21pm
Luc Hansen

It’s not even Sunday – wtf is all this religion doing poisoning GD yet again.

Philu, the simple fact is that Kris K is best described in a four letter word – evil.

He encapsulates much of what the perhaps mythical Jesus abhorred.
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June 26, 2010 9:35pm
Hurf Durf

Hey Delirium, why did you crawl back here anyway? Did your clientele down K Road dry up?

Oh, and cha, McCarthy was right if a little bit enthusiastic towards the end. And he remains right: yesterday’s socialists got their heads down, rebranded themselves “progressives” and continued their infection of key societal institutions and structures.
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June 26, 2010 9:43pm
Fletch

Kris, you will find that even a lot of protestant scholars do not agree with your interpretation of scripture.
For instance, Luther –

“Accordingly, we concede to the papacy that they sit in the true Church, possessing the office instituted by Christ and inherited from the apostles, to teach, baptize, administer the sacrament, absolve, ordain, etc., ”
Sermon for the Sunday after Christ’s Ascension; John 15:26-16:4 (2nd sermon), page 265, paragraph 28.
(1522)

Luther remarked several years later:
“We concede — as we must — that so much of what they [the Catholic Church] say is true: that the papacy has God’s word and the office of the apostles, and that we have received Holy Scriptures, Baptism, the Sacrament, and the pulpit from them. What would we know of these if it were not for them?”
Sermon on the gospel of St. John, chaps. 14 – 16 (1537), in vol. 24 of LUTHER’S WORKS,
St. Louis, Mo., Concordia, 1961, 304

Luther also comments on the keys that Jesus says he is giving to Peter –

“Why are you searching heavenward in search of my keys? Do you not understand, Jesus said, ‘I gave them to Peter. They are indeed the keys of heaven, but they are not found in heaven for I left them on earth.'” This is Jesus talking, “‘Peter’s mouth is my mouth, his tongue is my key case, his keys are my keys. They are an office.'” They are a power, a command given by God through Christ to all of Christendom for the retaining and remitting of the sins of men.'”

And what exactly do the “keys” symbolize? We have to go back to the Old Testament for that –

Evangelical Protestant Bible scholar F. F. Bruce,

In his book, The Hard Sayings of Jesus, Bruce comments on this phrase and writes:

“And what about the ‘keys of the kingdom’? The keys of a royal or noble establishment were entrusted to the chief steward or major domo; he carried them on his shoulder in earlier times, and there they served as a badge of the authority entrusted to him. About 700 B.C. an oracle from God announced that this authority in the royal palace in Jerusalem was to be conferred on a man called Eliakim: ‘I will place on his shoulder the key of the house of David; he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open’ (Isa. 22:22). So in the new community which Jesus was about to build, Peter would be, so to speak, chief steward. In the early chapters of Acts Peter is seen exercising this responsibility in the primitive church. He acts as chairman of the group of disciples in Jerusalem even before the coming of the Spirit at the first Christian Pentecost (Acts 1:15-26); on the day of Pentecost it is he who preaches the gospel so effectively that three thousand hearers believe the message and are incorporated in the church (Acts 2:14-41); some time later it is he who first preaches the gospel to a Gentile audience and thus ‘opens a door of faiths to Gentiles as well as Jews (Acts 10:34-48).”

One of the greatest Protestant Biblical scholars of the century supports this — W. F. Albright, in his Anchor Bible Commentary on Matthew –

“Peter as the Rock will be the foundation of the future community, the church. Jesus here uses Aramaic and so only the Aramaic word which would serve His purpose. In view of the background in verse 19, one must dismiss as confessional interpretation any attempt to see this rock as the faith or the confession of Peter.”

Again, this is not Catholics saying this – these are protestant scholars. Other protestant scholars such as Dr. France, Reformed Biblical scholar Herman Liderboss, Evangelical, Protestant scholar Professor Donald Carson, Lutheran professor, of scripture and theology Torg Forberg, Bultmann, A Protestant Biblical scholar, and English Protestant scholar, J.N.D. Kelly concur.
There really isn’t any doubt in my mind.

Kris, I have to ask, what did the Early Church believe? You know, after the Bible. You can read what the Early Church Fathers wrote HERE Or do you think corruption had already set in by the year 200 A.D? Exactly when did the Church that the Apostles belonged to (which I assume you believe in) become the Church you don’t believe in? The quotes from the Early Church Fathers show that they believed in the Primacy of Peter and Rome.
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June 26, 2010 10:07pm
Fletch

opps, sorry, my blockquote is in the wrong place. That last part should read –

One of the greatest Protestant Biblical scholars of the century supports this — W. F. Albright, in his Anchor Bible Commentary on Matthew –

“Peter as the Rock will be the foundation of the future community, the church. Jesus here uses Aramaic and so only the Aramaic word which would serve His purpose. In view of the background in verse 19, one must dismiss as confessional interpretation any attempt to see this rock as the faith or the confession of Peter.”

Again, this is not Catholics saying this – these are protestant scholars. Other protestant scholars such as Dr. France, Reformed Biblical scholar Herman Liderboss, Evangelical, Protestant scholar Professor Donald Carson, Lutheran professor, of scripture and theology Torg Forberg, Bultmann, A Protestant Biblical scholar, and English Protestant scholar, J.N.D. Kelly concur.
There really isn’t any doubt in my mind.

Kris, I have to ask, what did the Early Church believe? You know, after the Bible. You can read what the Early Church Fathers wrote HERE Or do you think corruption had already set in by the year 200 A.D? Exactly when did the Church that the Apostles belonged to (which I assume you believe in) become the Church you don’t believe in? The quotes from the Early Church Fathers show that they believed in the Primacy of Peter and Rome.

Sorry, i don’t mean to get testy, we just believe in different things, and I do respect your morals in what you post on many subjects.
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June 26, 2010 10:11pm
Redbaiter

You guys get a lot of support on here from people who are not religious. If I were you though, I wouldn’t make a frigging meal of it.
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June 26, 2010 10:19pm
philu

we need to know the christian fascist p.o.v. on gushers/gushing…

there is a discussion on this ‘gift’ ..only for women…over on the ‘desirable times’-thread…

could you let us know if this is the work of the devil/whore of babylon…?

or not..?

maybe you even know gushers….?

do tell..!

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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June 26, 2010 10:21pm
Paul Egerton

Here, for my old mate Redbaiter:

Arise ye workers from your slumbers
Arise ye prisoners of want
For reason in revolt now thunders
And at last ends the age of cant.
Away with all your superstitions
Servile masses arise, arise
We’ll change henceforth the old conditions
And spurn the dust to win the prize.

So comrades, come rally
And the last fight let us face
The Internationale unites the human race.
So comrades, come rally
And the last fight let us face
The Internationale unites the human race.

No more deluded by reaction
On tyrants only we’ll make war
The soldiers too will take strike action
They’ll break ranks and fight no more
And if those cannibals keep trying
To sacrifice us to their pride
They soon shall hear the bullets flying
We’ll shoot the generals on our own side.

No saviour from on high delivers
No faith have we in prince or peer
Our own right hand the chains must shiver
Chains of hatred, greed and fear
E’er the thieves will give up their booty
And give to all a happier lot.
Each at the forge must do their duty
And we’ll strike while the iron is hot.
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June 26, 2010 10:56pm
Paul Egerton

There is power in a factory, power in the land
Power in the hands of a worker
But it all amounts to nothing if together we don’t stand
There is power in a Union.

Now the lessons of the past were all learned with workers’ blood
The mistakes of the bosses we must pay for
From the cities and the farmlands to trenches full of mud
War has always been the bosses’ way, sir.

The Union forever, defending our rights
Down with the blackleg, all workers unite
With our brothers and out sisters from many far off lands
There is power in a Union.

Now I long for the morning that they realise
Brutality and unjust laws can not defeat us
But who’ll defend the workers who cannot organise
When the bosses send their lackies out to cheat us?

Money speaks for money, the Devil for his own
Who comes to speak for the skin and the bone
What a comfort to the widow, a light to the child
There is power in a Union.

The Union forever defending our rights
Down with the blackleg, all workers unite
With our brothers and out sisters from many far off lands
There is power in a Union.
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June 26, 2010 11:11pm
Sonny Blount

Why don’t you tell your stupid poem to the families of the bank workers killed by the union protesters in Greece.
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June 26, 2010 11:18pm
Paul Egerton

I still call myself a communist, because communism is no more what Russia made of it than Christianity is what the churches make of it
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June 26, 2010 11:49pm
Hurf Durf

There was a lot of power in that bomb that killed the 52 year old security adviser of a Greek minister.
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June 26, 2010 11:49pm
Duxton

I was rather amused to read Phil ‘Barby at my place’ Goff refer to Italy as the defending football (that’s soccor, to you Labour supporters) World Cup champions on Labour’s website.

Phil – each Football World Cup is a separate competition to determine the new World Champion. There is no ‘defending champion’. To the best of my knowledge, the only international competition that has a ‘defending champion’ is the America’s Cup.

And Phil, while I still have your attention……..

Do you still want to legalise incest, and lower the age of consent to 12? And, if so, why? Do you have any plans for retrospective legislation?
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June 27, 2010 12:40am

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