General Debate 16 June 2010

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starboard

..oohhh yeah..
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June 16, 2010 7:34am
wreck1080

Who wouldn’t recall a $700 taxi fare?

Just shows how out of touch Labour is with the hard working people of New Zealand.
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June 16, 2010 8:01am
si_rangi

And how about that football? Good on the All Whites.
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June 16, 2010 8:08am
Falafulu Fisi

The following song from Not PC blog post should get a Grammy Awards:

The Gaza Flotilla Choir presents: “We Con the World”

It is the tune of We’re the World (USA Aid For Africa – 1985), but the singers have changed it to We Con the World in describing The Gaza Flotilla .
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June 16, 2010 8:11am
big bruv

I suspect that Len Brown and Chris Carter are the All Whites biggest fans this morning.
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June 16, 2010 8:17am
Murray

Youtube have already pulled it because its offensive to make fun of people who want to commit genocide.

Happily youtube aint the only game in town.
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June 16, 2010 8:18am
Lee C

crocodile tears from Carter? http://monkeyswithtypewriter.blogspot.com/2010/06/sorry-seems-to-be-hardest-word-carters.html

“This is merely a media stunt designed to save his political skin, and keep his nose in the trough. Because, ask yourself this, is he employable anywhere else but in the fiasco of the ‘List-MP’ Beehive under the present MMP system?”

with thanks – Lee MWT
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June 16, 2010 8:20am
Yvette

Shane Jones seems to have a greater demotion than Carter but faces the media and apologises. Carter seems to have offended more, stated he had done no wrong until forced to issue an apology, won’t face the media – obviously because he still doesn’t want to admit wrong-doing – and is now home on stress leave.

It seems unclear as to who decided stress leave was needed or that whatever leave should be called ‘stress’ leave. Fucking stressed by what exactly? The need to face te media and answer question in a way that backs up what Goff says was the minimum ‘apology’ he could manage to get out of Carter?
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June 16, 2010 8:28am
Pauleastbay

What sort of moron takes a taxi ride like that on the meter?

You negoiate a fixed price before you leave. Its only a two hour trip. Even with th return trip empty, there wouldn’t be too many cabbies in Palm North making $175 per hour

And if it was that urgent couldn’t one of the governemnt limo’s shot up and picked him up,

or he could have driven a tractor down
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June 16, 2010 8:29am
Swiftman the infidel

“Fucking stressed by what exactly?”

Losing his gay-boy entitlements.
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June 16, 2010 8:36am
TimG_Oz

Felafel – It’s great, isn’t it! Have you only just seen it? Where have you been for the last week ….

Latma are great – there’s another one here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRt1AbqwfiY
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June 16, 2010 8:37am
Adolf Fiinkensein

A Labour Party moron.

I recently took a cab from Perth to Bunbury, a distance of 115miles, for a fee of $360.

The Herald is complaining that Judith Collins and ‘a group of her colleagues’ took a cab from Ohakea to Wellington for $360. Notice the paper carefully omitted the number of colleagues. I imagine there would have been three so the all up cost would have been $90 per head.

Where else but FITH New Zealand is sound common sense portrayed as profligacy?
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June 16, 2010 8:37am
philu

http://whoar.co.nz/2010/our-rivers-of-shame/

“… Nearly two years after a national inquiry proposed sweeping changes to help clean up New Zealand’s water …

… pollutants and toxic waste are still pouring into rivers.

Environment Minister Nick Smith has had a report since January that recommends tough rules to protect waterways.

Federated Farmers is lobbying him not to adopt the policy …

… saying its own voluntary and “innovative” measures are helping clean up rivers.

Conservationists say New Zealand’s polluted rivers – one international report said the Manawatu was among the most polluted in the world –

– are in a disgusting state.

But Dr Smith said there was no “magic bullet” to improving water quality.

In September 2008, a board of inquiry publicly notified a national policy statement aimed at improving freshwater management, and, after submissions, gave its report to Dr Smith in January.

At present, regional councils are tasked with managing water under the Resource Management Act.

Green Party co-leader Russel Norman said the policy would make councils act to improve water quality and reduce contaminants in rivers.

“Pollutants, especially effluent from dairy farms, and erosion from stock …

… are choking our rivers with silt, algae, and toxins.”

The policy sought to reduce over-allocation and over-contamination of water …

… but had been “kicked to touch” by Dr Smith … while polluting industries hoped it would go away, Dr Norman said…”

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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June 16, 2010 9:03am
Inventory2

@ Adolf – good point, and compare it with the Labour MP’s response to the same episode – to get on the phone to Transport Minister Harry Duynhoven, and ask for another plane to be sent!!
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June 16, 2010 9:28am
F E Smith

For those who have not read it, I cannot recommend this Power Line post highly enough:

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2010/06/026533.php

Just as a comment on it: I have noticed in the last few years that the legal profession is putting a great deal of stress on the grades of a graduate lawyer, so much so that those without grades are often initially condemned to the jobs nobody else wants. Indeed, many in the law today (especially the big law firms and Crown Law/Crown Solicitors network) seem to equate this concept of ‘brightness’ with ability. Yet, as I meet and talk with trial lawyers from around the world, I am impressed that very few of the best courtroom lawyers obtained outstanding marks in their degrees. Indeed, often the best courtroom lawyers have very average degrees, but an outstanding and often left field (not left wing) approach to their craft.

Notwithstanding everybody’s view of lawyers, I do recommend the post.
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June 16, 2010 9:34am
philu

heh..!..do rightwing-wingnuts..(local division..)..hate soccor as much as their american cuzzie-bros…?

http://whoar.co.nz/2010/glenn-becks-blues-why-the-far-right-hates-the-world-cup/

“…Every World Cup, it arrives like clockwork.

As sure as the ultimate soccer spectacle brings guaranteed adrenaline and agony to fans across the United States …

… it also drives the right-wing noise machine utterly insane.

“It doesn’t matter how you try to sell it to us,” yipped the Prom King of new right, Glenn Beck.

“It doesn’t matter how many celebrities you get, it doesn’t matter how many bars open early …

… it doesn’t matter how many beer commercials they run, we don’t want the World Cup, we don’t like the World Cup …

… we don’t like soccer …

… we want nothing to do with it.”

Beck’s wingnut godfather, G. Gordon Liddy also said on his radio program,

Whatever happened to American exceptionalism?

This game…originated with the South American Indians and instead of a ball, they used to use the head, the decapitated head, of an enemy warrior.

Dear Lord, where do we begin?

First of all, I always find it amusing when folks like Beck say, “We don’t like soccer,” …

… when it is by far the most popular youth sport in the United States.

It’s like saying, “You know what else American kids hate? Ice cream!”

Young people love soccer not because of some kind of commie-nazi plot conjured by Saul Alinsky to sap us of our precious juices …

… but because it’s—heaven forfend—fun.

Among adults, the sport is also growing because people from Latin America, Africa and the West Indies have brought their love of the beautiful game to an increasingly multicultural United States.

As sports journalist Simon Kuper wrote very adroitly in his book Soccer Against the Enemy …

… “When we say Americans don’t play soccer … we are thinking of the big white people who live in the suburbs…”

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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June 16, 2010 9:41am
Murray

How much of this consistant fuckwittery are you going to tolerate DPF?
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June 16, 2010 9:44am
Pete George

Interesting FES. Edison was another who was not “bright”.

I understand medicine has had the same problem -“bright” doctors with limited people skills. Grades are easy to measure, but ability and empathy and flexibility are only apparent in practice. Those getting the best grades tend to know how to work with the system as it is the best, people with lesser grades aren’t in the same straightjacket.
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June 16, 2010 9:46am
MikeNZ

I concur FES
Interesting post, thanks.
EQ/SQ don’t equate with academic brilliance necessarily, that’s why when they are together it is special.
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June 16, 2010 10:03am
Swiftman the infidel

FFS from the NZ Herald Wednesday 16 June page A13:

‘We get the prisons we are prepared to pay for’ by Elizabeth Rose, acting head, School of Architecture and Planning, University of Auckland.

“Prisons are not only designed to constrain, but are often intentionally symbolic. Once mere staging posts before the gallows, they evolved into punitive warehouses for those who failed to conform and are deemed a moral hazard to the society that produced them…Japan, Denmark, Finland, Norway, Switzerland…incarcerate their populations at almost two-thirds less the rate of New Zealand”.

Planet earth to Elizabeth:

1) “Failed to conform” – The people in our prisons are not talented but wacko artists like Salvador Dali
2) “a moral hazard” – You mean the type who seduces your wife while you are at work?
3) “the society that produced them” – Is crime a compulsory subject at our compulsory schools?
4) “Japan, Denmark, Finland, Norway, Switzerland…incarcerate their populations at almost two-thirds less the rate of New Zealand” – Well, not until they import large numbers of Maori and Pacific Islanders and give them a sense of entitlement.
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June 16, 2010 10:03am
Put it away

phool – “heh..!..do rightwing-wingnuts..(local division..)..hate soccor as much as their american cuzzie-bros…?”

At least they can spell it phool. Everyone you quoted got it right, how did you manage to get it wrong ?
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June 16, 2010 10:30am
side show bob

Good news for Carter, Jones, Brown and other lefty sponges, there are great deals on troughs at the field days.
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June 16, 2010 10:36am
nickb

Good to see you again FE!

I have a question for you if you are lurking aorund- have just been studying the case of R v Shaheed. What are your thoughts on cases such as this? You must obviously get more than your fair share of cops bending the rules relating to warrants/NZBORA issues etc, but it seems to me that the Court of Appeal went too far in the other direction in this case… seems sickening that a rapist can get off just from a cop telling a few porkies
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June 16, 2010 10:36am
philu

“..there are great deals on troughs at the field days…”

any special ‘trust’/wff-troughing-advice -for-farmers ones there for you…?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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June 16, 2010 10:49am
philu

“..How much of this consistant fuckwittery are you going to tolerate DPF?..”

that’s right..!..

..you are one of those ‘big white people who live in the suburbs’…

eh muzza…?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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June 16, 2010 10:53am
krazykiwi

Sydney Morning Herald Headline: Australasia 1 Slovakia 1. Desperate stuff 🙂
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June 16, 2010 11:00am
Rick Rowling

Two in one day yesterday.

Doesn’t getting your snout caught in the public trough bring out the dramatics from the left wing…

Hearing Len Brown this morning I couldn’t tell if it was real or a really poorly acted radio-play.
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June 16, 2010 11:16am
Rick Rowling

It’s not soccor – it’s footboll! (sic)
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June 16, 2010 11:17am
Paulus

O’Connor’s taxi from Palmy. Can’t remember? duh

I was with Lange (when he was PM) on a flight dropped into Palmy one Monday morning due to weather in Wellington.

We all waited for an hour for a bus to Wellington. Lange got on the bus too and off we went only to breakdown at Ohau – so we waited for another bus, Lange too. He was chatty (rather than verbose as he usually was) and quite philosopical as he had an important meeting that morning. We made Wellington before lunch.

PM and no Taxi – who are these guys?
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June 16, 2010 11:19am
side show bob

Gee Philly don’t you ever get out, you must have bed sores on you arse by now. I do hope the librarian applies cream to your scabby arse when she comes in every morning.
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June 16, 2010 11:30am
RKBee

I see more ethnic cleansing is raising its ugly head again in europe… to remind us just whats really going on just under the skin of most of us.
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June 16, 2010 11:42am
nickb

This story is interesting:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10652194

Customary title under the new Act looks like it is going to be far more comprehensive than under Labour. How long before iwi have a right of veto over fishing, shellfish collecting etc?
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June 16, 2010 11:51am
Grant Michael McKenna

As one born in Africa I will be Switzerland against Spain tomorrow. This is because so many of Africa’s leaders have sizeable secret bank accounts in Zurich. We really need to thank Switzerland for being the Bank of Africa.
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June 16, 2010 12:51pm
Robert Mapplethorpe

I must appoligise for posting here without first saying “Hello” and introducing myself.

This is quite an amazing little place, a combination of public square and sewer, with far too many people expressing opinions beyond their ability to think, leavened by the valuable contributions of those who can both think and type at the same time, such as F E Smith and reid.

I have enjoyed watching the fortitude of Toad stepping in to the Lion’s Den, only to be quickly tossed out by the likes of redbaiter and big bruv, so incapable of seeing through their political cataracts.

I did wonder if redbaiter was satire, until I read a review of Charles Pirece’s “Idiot America” whcch contained this absolute gem when referrring to American media a la FOX mode.

The media help gullibility along by adhering to what Pierce calls the three great premises of idiot America.

First premise: “Any theory is valid if it sells books, soaks up ratings, or otherwise moves units.”
Second premise: “Anything can be true if somebody says it loudly enough.”
Third premise: “Fact is that which enough people believe.”
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June 16, 2010 1:48pm
Yvette

I don’t accept the view that he is picked on because he is gay. He is picked on because there is a common view that he has travelled too much. But there is no doubt that lots of people are putting an extra boot into Chris because he is gay. One only has to look at Whaleoil (yes I did) or many comments on Kiwiblog to see the bile that homophobes are writing. – Trevor Mallard, Red Alert, June 16, 2010

Meanwhile –
Minister [Chris Carter] and ––––––– stayed at the Crown Plaza Christchurch in November 2006. Checked out late and was charged 2 nights [costs relate to Australian Natural resource management Council meeting] $1,080.00
– http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/mps-expenses-review?page_id=3d2e82ab4ee22ca62249
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June 16, 2010 2:01pm
NOt1tocommentoften

nickb – what are your views as a law student on property rights and due process? Your comments here, and on the post re ecan suggest you don’t value either of these much.
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June 16, 2010 2:11pm
Pete George

Hi Robert.

Yes, there are often feathers flying here, but often enough there are sufficient morsels unplucked to get your teeth into.

Redbaiter is self-satire. He is most things he accuses others of. He uses an abuse thesaurus to try control and vary his message but that is a thin veil over a familiar frustration.

Re the premises you mention:

First premise: moves units – measured by RB in responses to his posts, he complains about dumbarse comments and questions but that’s just to get the unit count up.
Second premise: loudly enough – ALL CAPS are frowned on here so he tries to amplify via abusiveness.
Third premise – facts are his big problem, not enough people believe in NZ. He would feel more at home in Alaska.
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June 16, 2010 2:30pm
Redbaiter

Robert- PG is a commie propagandist who hangs out here promulgating the most offensive ideas imaginable, all couched in the most politically correct language. In personal terms, a microcosm of everything that is wrong with NZ.
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June 16, 2010 2:37pm
Rex Widerstrom

F E Smith:

That is an interesting article. Surely you’d concede, though, that the kind of “brightness” favoured by our schools and universities (i.e. the ability to memorise and recall on cue screeds of information) is at least as useful to a lawyer as is the ability to creatively interpret that information?

In fact – aside from a mathematician and certain scientists – I can think of few professions in which simple recall is quite as advantageous. I agree that being able to conjure up the citation for a particular precedent or opinion, or recall the clause number of a provision within a statute, does not a brilliant lawyer make. But it does at least create a useful one.

I find combining the “left field” barrister with the “bright” solicitor in fact creates a formidable team. Of course when you find someone able to do both – as was your namesake – then they are a treasure beyond value. I feel like preserving them in aspic 😀

Swiftman:

Just to play devil’s advocate:

1) “Failed to conform” – The people in our prisons are not talented but wacko artists like Salvador Dali

Not wearing my pants in the street is “failing to conform”, yet I wouldn’t be harming anyone. Having six wives; having consensual sex with my sister; smoking marijuana; failing to pay my parking tickets; even sleeping rough in a railway station are all failures to conform with society’s norms and all could see me end up in prison.

2) “a moral hazard” – You mean the type who seduces your wife while you are at work?

Refer to the above for examples of “moral hazards”. Even viewing child pornography constitutes a purely moral hazard (unless of course you’ve paid the producer, in which case it’s encouraging the abuse – a different matter). There is little or no treatment for such ofending in our jails and we no longer have secure mental health facilities.

3) “the society that produced them” – Is crime a compulsory subject at our compulsory schools?

Dr Rose is – as I suspect you know – talking about the general moral decline of society. A society in which a Minister of the Crown can blatantly steal from the taxpayer and then receive absolution with an apology… or even with no apology… for a calculating, self-interested “crime”. In which parents are liable to be arrested for disciplining their children. In which it iis possible to be jailed for a property offence for longer than an offence against a person. And so on…

4) “Japan, Denmark, Finland, Norway, Switzerland…incarcerate their populations at almost two-thirds less the rate of New Zealand” – Well, not until they import large numbers of Maori and Pacific Islanders and give them a sense of entitlement.

Japan is an entirely different society, where conformity is inbred. Dr Rose is being somewhat disningenuous in citing that as an example. The Scandinavian countries, however, have enlightened and effective justice and penal policies that actually work in keeping their citizens safe.

I could lengthen this even further and explain them, but I won’t waste my time. Anything that does not play to your “all prisoners are scum” prejudices will just be ignored anyway.
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June 16, 2010 2:42pm
Sonny Blount

Finland has the second highest incidence of death from firearms in the world iirc.
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June 16, 2010 2:55pm
MikeNZ

Its a funny old world in o0ne breath the US is building airships
http://www.c4isrjournal.com/story.php?F=4669878

and another they are building the biggest remote controlled helicopter for “cargo”
http://www.c4isrjournal.com/story.php?F=4609041

Meanwhile the 6 drones the Turks bought off of Israel are idle as the Israelis have packed up and gone home for the interim.
http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=4669640&c=EUR&s=TOP

Irony of ironies they were being used against the Turkish Kurds!
Now I don’t know whether to laugh or cry when the Israelis have ago at the Turks for underhand dealings.
How many Kurds are going to be snuffed out by the Israeli bought Heron UAV’s I wonder?
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June 16, 2010 3:01pm
Pauleastbay

Robert Mapplethorpe,

Congratulations on doing a Lazurus seeing as you died in New York in 1989.

Your nom de guerre has been taken from a very talented individual – praising Toad makes it seem unlikely you will carry on in a similar vein.
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June 16, 2010 3:41pm
RightNow

Who dared to be watching the World Cup? You infidels! You will be executed:
http://www.watoday.com.au/world-cup-2010/world-cup-news/football-fans-executed-for-watching-world-cup-20100615-ybrj.html
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June 16, 2010 3:55pm
Banana Llama

A sewer you say Robert? wonder where i have heard that description used before .. yet here you are knee deep in shit, what a bore you will be.
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June 16, 2010 4:52pm
krazykiwi

Warning: Serious science follows. Not suitable for CAGW alarmists.

New Miskolczi Paper: CO2 not cause of Global Warming

Ferenc Miskolczi, a former NASA physicist, has a forthcoming paper to be published in Energy & Environment which shows empirically that change in the greenhouse effect due to CO2 would likely have been detected if it had been present in the last 61 years. Miskolczi also demonstrates that the IPCC-claimed positive feedback from water vapor does not exist.

ABSTRACT: By the line-by-line method, a computer program is used to analyze Earth atmospheric radiosonde data from hundreds of weather balloon observations. In terms of a quasi-all-sky protocol, fundamental infrared atmospheric radiative flux components are calculated: at the top boundary, the outgoing long wave radiation, the surface transmitted radiation, and the upward atmospheric emittance; at the bottom boundary, the downward atmospheric emittance. The partition of the outgoing long wave radiation into upward atmospheric emittance and surface transmitted radiation components is based on the accurate computation of the true greenhouse-gas optical thickness for the radiosonde data. New relationships among the flux components have been found and are used to construct a quasi-all- sky model of the earth’s atmospheric energy transfer process. In the 1948-2008 time period the global average annual mean true greenhouse-gas optical thickness is found to be time-stationary. Simulated radiative no-feedback effects of measured actual CO2 change over the 61years were calculated and found to be of magnitude easily detectable by the empirical data and analytical methods used.

The data negate increase in CO2 in the atmosphere as a hypothetical cause for the apparently observed global warming. A hypothesis of significant positive feedback by water vapor effect on atmospheric infrared absorption is also negated by the observed measurements. Apparently major revision of the physics underlying the greenhouse effect is needed.
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June 16, 2010 6:38pm
Manolo

The false Messiah? http://crusader-rabbit.blogspot.com/2010/06/video-barry-soetoro-doesnt-want-you-to.html

Hat Tip: Crusader Rabbit
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June 16, 2010 6:52pm
krazykiwi

Wow Manolo. That’s alarming. I’m sure that some of the points could be refuted…. but the overall case is pretty damming. The very final comment about social security numbers is telling.
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June 16, 2010 7:15pm
side show bob

Robert M. oh great another another intellectual. If most here are beneath your profound arguments, quick wit, and brain dead commentary why do you bother. Like the rest of the lefty wasters you are drawn to those that despise you ideas. Best of luck, you well need it,
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June 16, 2010 7:44pm
reid

Falafulu Fisi (530) Says:
June 16th, 2010 at 8:11 am
The following song from Not PC blog post should get a Grammy Awards:

The Gaza Flotilla Choir presents: “We Con the World”

It is the tune of We’re the World (USA Aid For Africa – 1985), but the singers have changed it to We Con the World in describing The Gaza Flotilla .

To which I observe:

A nation that wants to get away with using deadly force against people who were ostensibly engaged in a civilian operation designed to help their religious brethren, needs to help people believe that everyone in that flotilla were terrorists.
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June 16, 2010 8:50pm
TimG_Oz

Newsflash: Australia now wants New Zealand to co-host the 2022 World Cup, so at least “Australiasia” will have some chance of scoring a goal!
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June 16, 2010 9:26pm
TimG_Oz

Best Australian Ad on television:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vo6fgZ-dbOw
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June 16, 2010 11:20pm

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