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June 13, 2010 8:14am by David Farrar

General Debate 13 June 2010

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General Debate

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philu

“..Don’t you know anything?..”

not much…

what’s yr/the answer…?

phil(whoar.co.mz)
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June 13, 2010 3:27pm
reid

free will
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June 13, 2010 3:30pm
tom hunter

Even Ghandi advocated violence when one’s back is against a wall.

I can’t wait to see the links to support that.
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June 13, 2010 3:32pm
reid

The biggest objection many outside the fold raise most often, is how can a loving G-d create what we see around us?

It’s a big question. And the answer is, that if we lived in a perfect world where no-one could ever make a wrong decision in any way, health-wise, finance-wise, career-wise, family-wise, at every moment of our every day on Earth, would it be perfect for us?

One thing I’m certain of, is that I wouldn’t like it, because I couldn’t make a mistake and thereby learn and grow from it, ever.

For whatever reason, we have the opportunity to make our own paths through the passage of space-time, and for me, it’s a pleasure and a privilege to be able to do that.

Free will is a concept that has many layers of meaning. I’ve been thinking about it since I did uni, and the more you think about it, the more it makes sense.
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June 13, 2010 3:40pm
Johnboy

“For whatever reason, we have the opportunity to make our own paths through the passage of space-time,”

Or in magpies case. Spaced-out time.
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June 13, 2010 3:43pm
Kris K

reid 3:05 pm

The point I am making is that if many in the West condemned the actions of the Turkish Islamists attack on the IDF, then there must be at least SOME Muslim voice condemning the Islamists actions in this regard…So where are these Muslim voices?

Look, if you want a response to your question about where are the Muslims who condemn acts of Muslim terror, then give me a fucking act of MUSLIM! terror.

What about the other example I cited which you “…” skipped over:

Much in the same way as there must be Muslim condemnation of Islamists lobbing over 10,000 rockets into the Israeli civilian population in recent years.
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June 13, 2010 3:49pm
philu

reid..

is god this guy in the sky…..?

overlooking the minuitae of of our travails..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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June 13, 2010 3:51pm
reid

Muslim condemnation of Islamists lobbing over 10,000 rockets into the Israeli civilian population in recent years.

Here you go.

“What about the other example I cited which you “…” skipped over:”

What “other example,” Kris?
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June 13, 2010 4:01pm
Johnboy

“overlooking the minuitae of of our travails..?

Travail of course being French for work.

A concept the magpie is completely ignorant of…….eh…?.. 🙂

(Johnboy.sheep.Lalaland.fuckyouphool)
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June 13, 2010 4:04pm
reid

is god this guy in the sky…..?overlooking the minuitae of of our travails..?

G-d interacts with all of us whether we know it or not, phil. He’s got a light touch.
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June 13, 2010 4:04pm
Kris K

reid 4:01 pm,

Had a quick look at those two links.
Of course we know that if a Muslim lies to an infidel he is not guilty of lying according to Islam – it is only a sin to lie to a fellow Muslim.

For example; we know that when Arafat was alive he would say one thing to the West (that he wanted peace with Israel), while he would say something else to his Muslim audience (that he would drive Israel into the sea). And of course we have the example of the prophet Mohammed making ‘peace’ agreements with those he later went onto conquer and destroy (once he had sufficient numbers) if they didn’t join his “Religion of Peace”.

Muslims are encouraged in both the Koran and the Hadith to deceive the infidel if it will further the cause of Islam – the ultimate ’cause’ being to establish a global Islamic caliphate under Sharia Law.
So in light of that just how sincere is any Muslim condemnation of Islamist terrorist acts? – I would say, “Not very”.

Those Muslims who may genuinely condemn Islamist terrorism are NOT following the teachings of the Koran OR the example set by Mohammed. If they genuinely condemned Islamist terrorism then they would LEAVE Islam (if they could).

Islam, by its very nature, is a philosophy of hate and deception and fear. One needs only consider what many ex-Muslims say about the “Religion of Peace” to get a good idea of the inner workings of Islam.

So, sorry Reid – I’m not buying it.
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June 13, 2010 4:33pm
Johnboy

Shit it’s fucking cold over here in Lalaland since the hailstorm came through.
D’ye think its God’s way of telling us we aren’t burning enough Muslim’s?
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June 13, 2010 4:38pm
Manolo

“How the fuck can Smith, Shonkey and his arse lickers claim the ETS will save the world when it will actually be responsible for an increase in animal emissions.”

They cannot. Smith and Key are lying through their teeth and keeping a low profile lately on the ETS. It promises to be a winter of discontent in NZ once the ETS is enacted and prices go up across the board.

Personally, I’ll do my best to campaign against this pair of lying, unprincipled politicians.
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June 13, 2010 4:41pm
RKBee

Its a worry when the only Labour MPs with integity with their credit card spending are both Helen Clark and Micheal Cullen.

On the godly note… I see no evidence that god cureated man… other than in books written by man.. which makes me wonder if the idea of God wasn’t invented by man.. I do believe nature is the closest concept their is of God on earth.. as man could never have made nature… so if you live by the laws of and in harmony with nature your close to God… if not your not… in my book nature is God… or the closest anyone of us humans are going to get to it him God.. A bloody tall order for most humans religous or not… as we are still intent on going down the same path of destroying it.
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June 13, 2010 4:42pm
Kris K

Johnboy 4:38 pm,

Shit it’s fucking cold over here in Lalaland since the hailstorm came through.
D’ye think its God’s way of telling us we aren’t burning enough Muslim’s?

I’m sure mother earth godess Gaia would frown upon the burning of carbon based Muslims. 😉

But I agree, Johnboy, she’s just dropped a few notches on the thermometer here, and the barometer took a dive an hour or so ago. I really am getting sick of this global warming.
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June 13, 2010 4:48pm
Put it away

Jesus christ Phool, your THC-soaked brain is so incapable of logical reasoning that you are about to lose an argument with fundy christians.
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June 13, 2010 5:33pm
Sonny Blount

Man cannot destroy nature as man is nature.

Aircraft carriers, nuclear reactors, and New York City are all amongst natures grandest creations.

If man turns the entire world into the Matrix it will be evolution and completely natural.

Whales, Pandas, and Spotted Owls will all become extinct regardless of mans existence as is the same with every other species.

Luckily, a liking for nature reserves and nostalgia has also evolved in humans and as mankind progresses. the world is becoming a rather nice place.
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June 13, 2010 5:36pm
philu

“..He’s got a light touch…”

i thought that was shane…?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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June 13, 2010 6:15pm
Hurf Durf

is a fantasist, a blethering popinjay useful only for amusement. He can be safely ignored in all serious scientific debate. But it reflects badly on those people who want seriously to argue against the science of climate change that this capering jester is among the public figureheads of their movement.

Why is Monbiot talking about himself?

Hey, hey, Luc Hansen, how many 7-year-olds did your resistance friends hang today?

Fucking England goalkeeper. They should have won that match.
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June 13, 2010 6:16pm
side show bob

Why did God create atheists ? Perhaps they were sent to test the faith of believers, then again God could have been sucking on a bong and might have thought he would humor the world.
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June 13, 2010 6:23pm
Johnboy

There are fuck all of them in a foxhole. Even if it was in Vietnam.
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June 13, 2010 6:31pm
krazykiwi

[Luc] While I strongly uphold equal rights for women, I do not regard that as excluding the rights of other peoples to their own beliefs
[kk] So the stoning of this woman, as authorized by a belief system, is quite ok for you?
.. finally Luc responds ..
[luc] I put stoning in almost the same category as all capital punishment – reprehensible

Your strong “support for woman’s rights” do extend to categorizing behaviours your own mind, but not criticizing them in a public forum, the barbarism that is authorised by Islam. That you remain silent until pressed about this issue makes you an outstanding hypocrite Luc. Oh that, and condemning others for hiding behind a pseudonym while posting under one yourself.

But I think this KK would argue more against the punishment than against the the concept of adultery as a punishable crime

It must help hate me… you thinking this. The truth is I’ve never said adultery should be punishable as a crime. And for the record I don’t think is should be. But feel free to disprove yourself a liar, and provide a link. Good luck with that.

Thus KK once proudly stated here how his wife obeys him in everything – hardly the mindset of a supporter of women’s equality!

More slurs and lies from Luc, king of the gutter. I have never, and would never say such a thing. I demand a link or a retraction. Arsehole.

And to finish with.. this about James Hansen the liar (not related are you… ‘Luc Hansen’ ?)

I repeat that James Hansen is responsible for scientific fraud in the manipulation of temperature records central to the IPCC’s case for CAGW. One commenter observed :

Hansenize. Verb. To make a correction to historical records in such a way that the correction has the effect of increasing the error that the correction purports to correct.
Serious question: At what point does this become fraud?

A good question.
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June 13, 2010 6:59pm
nickb

Read this and tell me what you all think;

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10651637

FFS
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June 13, 2010 7:00pm
dad4justice

Nutty Nick said we should plant more trees, however our local tribe is bulldozing down forests so they can milk cows.Nice one Rik Tau you ####!!! Keep taking the pills nutbar kiwi suckers! If only you fools knew how deep the corruption runs. Eh Rik did you tell the Queen why you got sacked from CFM?
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June 13, 2010 7:05pm
Hurf Durf

Tonight’s Sunday Challenge: sift through little Johann Hari’s Facebook wall and see how long it takes before you to want him to cark it in a situation involving a block of Semtex and his mode of personal transportation.
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June 13, 2010 7:05pm
krazykiwi

@Hurf, Luc said “While I strongly uphold equal rights for women [OR children OR elderly etc], I do not regard that as excluding the rights of other peoples to their own beliefs”

If that benchmark in Koranic compliance, the Taliban, demand that a 7 year old child must be hanged, or a woman be brutally pummeled to death with stones (stones because pebbles too slow, and rocks are too fast) then this is, according to Luc, their belief .. and we should not “exclude the rights of other people to their own beliefs”.

People like Luc and his ilk are duplicit in this kind of slaughter. Their silence, lest any protest be determined as some kind of support for Israel, is responsible to perpetuating stone-age barbarism which is inflicted on billions.
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June 13, 2010 7:26pm
Manolo

“Ngapuhi wants to impose a nine percent ‘tribal tax’ on everyone who lives in the iwi’s region
A Ngapuhi leader is calling for a nine per cent economic development tax to be levied on everyone living inside the iwi’s boundary as part of its treaty claim.”

The greed of this Maori tribe knows no bounds. I’d suggest to them to look for paid employment instead of the routine trip to the local WINZ office.
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June 13, 2010 7:27pm
krazykiwi

@nickb – I would say thin end of the wedge… but we’re way past that. As NZ slides towards sleepy Polynesian economy status watch for more racist hands out for more hand outs.
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June 13, 2010 7:27pm
dad4justice

“The greed of this Maori tribe knows no bounds. ”

When will the greedy bastards stop the thieving? Come on enough is enough Rik & Co.
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June 13, 2010 7:30pm
nickb

The cheek of those greedy cunts just get me going!

The economy back home is fucked anyway, if there was an extra 9% tax up there the only people left after a few months would be these racist corrupt fuckwits from one of Nz’s most racist corrupt iwi.

Funniest part is how he says it is a “non-negotiable” part of any settlement, can’t see that bottom line getting you very far you fucking idiot.
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June 13, 2010 7:39pm
Jack5

New topic for a mo..

Rabid leftists, like Lost-it Lucy, who now side with the Taliban (these lefties side with anyone against the West) need to read this:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/afghanistan/7823404/Life-under-the-Taliban-how-a-boy-of-seven-was-hanged-to-punish-his-family.html
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June 13, 2010 7:44pm
big bruv

“Its a worry when the only Labour MPs with integity with their credit card spending are both Helen Clark and Micheal Cullen.”

Hmmm, what is it about that statement that just does not sound right?
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June 13, 2010 7:51pm
big bruv

Watching Q&A this morning I was struck by how adamant the 10% Maori racist was against white Kiwis being called indigenous, surely this is the best and fairest way of dealing with us all.

It seems she is suggesting that Maori be deemed (by law) to be the superior race and be granted special privileges and conditions not available to anybody without Maori ancestry.

What should we call a system like that?
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June 13, 2010 7:56pm
krazykiwi

From Jack5’s link:

For those accused of collaboration with the Nato-led forces or with Mr Karzai’s weak government, Taliban control often means rapid summary execution.

Schools have been closed or burned for being un-Islamic; schoolgirls have had acid thrown in their faces, and women have been confined to home unless accompanied by a male relative.

Under their backward governance, anything resembling modern health care is almost non-existent.

People like Luc never seem to find the time to condemn this stone-age, barbaric culture… I guess because they’re too busy salivating (or worse) over the possibility of yet another UNHRC resolution against Israel.
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June 13, 2010 8:03pm
krazykiwi

big bruv – Maori were colonisers just like Europeans IMO.
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June 13, 2010 8:04pm
Eddie

Big Bruv if you don’t value the multi faceted and Tangata Whenua oriented modern New Zealand there are many fights every day to more enlightened countries.
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June 13, 2010 8:08pm
reid

So, sorry Reid – I’m not buying it.

Yes I can see that, Kris, but since you haven’t yet managed to refute any of my points, I don’t understand why.
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June 13, 2010 8:08pm
nickb

Eddie is it frustrating coming to a blog where you cannot ban those you disagree with? Or delete comments that challenge your arguments?

Just wondering.
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June 13, 2010 8:10pm
Eddie

“If ignorant both of your enemy and yourself, you are certain to be in peril.” – Sun Tzu.
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June 13, 2010 8:23pm
reid

Kris, just did a re-read, and possibly your answer lies here:

Had a quick look at those two links.

Lots of Muslim-to-Muslim condemnation links esp in the first one, weren’t there. You like condemning, don’t you.
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June 13, 2010 8:31pm
Redbaiter

“there are many fights every day to more enlightened countries.”

In spite of the efforts of people like you Eddie, this is still a democratic country, and those who have different views on government are not yet sent into exile. Dissent is healthy Eddie. Get used to it, and stop telling people who are not part of your distasteful bunch of totalitarians and Marxists to leave the country.
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June 13, 2010 8:32pm
Luc Hansen

For Tom Hunter, the link he requested: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZHb7YbYd8I

Anyone with his email address please alert him to this post.
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June 13, 2010 8:35pm
Eddie

You hate this countries diversity with such a passion Red that your comments are the height of hypocrisy.
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June 13, 2010 8:37pm
dad4justice

Slow day over at the sub standard sewer blog not so fast steady Eddie?
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June 13, 2010 8:40pm
Johnboy

Nah Eddie. Like a lot of us he can’t stand hearing the bleating of losers who think their colour/sexual bent/politics gives them some sort of special status.
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June 13, 2010 8:41pm
Pete George

That’s a bit rich coming from you RB, when did you last tell me to fuck off? Today or yesterday?
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June 13, 2010 8:44pm
Redbaiter

Get an education Eddie. Not one of the posts you have made here has been a good example of English. You’re an uneducated fool, like most people who push fascist ideas. (such as superior status based on race)
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June 13, 2010 8:44pm
dad4justice

Go have a cry petey gal.
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June 13, 2010 8:45pm
Redbaiter

Fuck off PG.
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June 13, 2010 8:46pm
Johnboy

Thats “Beth” Dad, not “Pete”.
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June 13, 2010 8:47pm
Pete George

It’s a laugh, d4j, you may not know much about that.

Which country RB?
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June 13, 2010 8:47pm
dad4justice

I am laughing my tits off at your sad arse.
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June 13, 2010 8:47pm
Luc Hansen

krazykiwi, the KK who is proud that his wife obeys him is the other KK, Kris K. You should have known that.
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June 13, 2010 8:48pm
Eddie

Now I am a fascist eh Red. You are the one preaching exclusion and hate. Got your KKK hood on at home while you rant?
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June 13, 2010 8:53pm
Manolo

Poor eddie must feel depressed here reading all these adverse comments, and being unable to ban or delete them as his ilk, the obnoxious and effeminate lprent, does at the sewer called The Standard, where contrary opinions are not tolerated.

The leftoids continue to plumb new depths.
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June 13, 2010 8:54pm
dad4justice

I notice that Eddie has the same non existant language skills as not so gay dumbo Chris Carter.
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June 13, 2010 8:57pm
Johnboy

“Now I am a fascist eh Red. You are the one preaching exclusion and hate. Got your KKK hood on at home while you rant?”

1 out of 10 (for consistency).

This child could do better if he learned to play with his own age group rather than annoy the grown ups.
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June 13, 2010 9:00pm
Redbaiter

“Now I am a fascist eh Red.”

Reluctantly Eddie, because I know you don’t really want to be one. Its a shame, but that’s what you are, and if you were educated, you would know I speak the truth. You seek to use the power of government to force others to comply with your own political perspective. That is true Fascism.

As opposed to myself Eddie, who wants to see government weak and powerless, keeping records and running a criminal justice system that protects individuals from crime. End of story.

See the difference??
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June 13, 2010 9:00pm
starboard

hey eddie..tell ya girlfriend lprent he’s a fag and I know that he wears his g-strings back to front.
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June 13, 2010 9:05pm
Pete George

You seem to want all the power yourself, eh RB, what’s that called?

(I think Johnboy is referring to starboards claim)
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June 13, 2010 9:06pm
Johnboy

How the fuck do you know that then well we might ask!
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June 13, 2010 9:07pm
Redbaiter

Fuck off PG. Come back when you’ve had a refresher course in comprehension.
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June 13, 2010 9:08pm
big bruv

Eddie

Please do try and stick to the facts for a change.

Where is this “multi faceted and Tangata Whenua oriented modern New Zealand” that you speak of?

Perhaps I could find it in the crime stats, or the child abuse figures, should I look for it among the many “Tangata Whenua” who sit idly on our overly generous social welfare benefits?

The only New Zealand I can recognise is one where hard work, personal responsibility and earnest endeavour are met with small minded jealousy and hatred by those who think that the rest of NZ owes them a living.

These are the very people you rely on for votes, these are the very people you encourage, through that encouragement you burden another generation of Kiwis to the slavery that is our welfare system.

As for leaving NZ, while that is a most inviting idea I prefer to stay here and enjoy watching the left drown in it’s own ineptitude, every single day I read at how outraged one group or another is at having their budget slashed or removed, every time I come across a story like that it makes me smile, every time I see how outraged a Minto, Bradford, Dyson or McCarten is it makes staying here for another year all the more logical.

Actually, it might well be you who should consider packing your bags, by the time this government is finished there will be very little about NZ that you can recognise, your dream of a socialist paradise will have vanished, it might be a good idea to go and stay with good old Hugo for a while, let him show you how wonderful socialism is.
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June 13, 2010 9:10pm
Johnboy

I know, I know, Beth! Its called Helen. 🙂
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June 13, 2010 9:10pm
Luc Hansen

@ Hurf

My feeling is that, as usual, the hanging of a 7 yo is yet another urban myth. Having said that, the Taliban are unlovely people. Trouble is, they live there, not us, and it is always best to leave the locals to sort themselves out.

The US did not invade Afghanistan to nation build – Bush said that from the start. But they go sucked into it and they are finding out that they can’t do it – unless they commit enough troops to overwhelm the place, probably about one million in that country, for about 100 years, and they won’t do that. So the Taliban are in a comfort zone right now, because they know the western troops will soon go, end of story.

And that is a major problem for the Afghanis: they KNOW the Taliban will come back, in all their savagery, because they KNOW the West will abandon them. As we always do.

So our only hope is to negotiate with the Taliban, agree to their return, but conditional on recognising basic human rights, with LOTS of dollars as motivation – problem with that idea is that they know we will leave anyway…

It’s a conundrum of our own making.

Now, shall we talk about the 15 yr old Mexican boy shot in Mexico by the US Border Patrol. Evidently, he was throwing rocks at the border guards, who took offence. He ran to hide behind a rock, then poked his head out to look, the US killer took a shot that missed, then, while the boy looked on, astonished, the killer took careful aim and shot him through his head.

Just like the IDF – slingshots against an armoured chopper = reason to kill.
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June 13, 2010 9:14pm
Eddie

You guys ever seen that TV show PUNK’D?
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June 13, 2010 9:17pm
Pete George

To help my comprehension of your suggestion RB, can you point out any strong countries with weak governments?

I’ve never seen PUNK’D.
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June 13, 2010 9:22pm
krazykiwi

Pete – USA?
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June 13, 2010 9:23pm
Redbaiter

The US used to be, before you Progressives fucked it up by ignoring the Constitution.
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June 13, 2010 9:23pm
Eddie

PUNK’D = 21stC Candid Camera.
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June 13, 2010 9:25pm
big bruv

You still here Eddie?

Goodness me, you really don’t mind taking a beating do you.
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June 13, 2010 9:26pm
Pete George

No krazy, apparently I ignored the constitution there so it’s weak.
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June 13, 2010 9:26pm
Eddie

Done like a dinner

Taken for a ride

Stitched up
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June 13, 2010 9:27pm
Hurf Durf

Facebook walls and The Stranded are useful tools for reminding me why I so despise the deluded left.
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June 13, 2010 9:27pm
Redbaiter

Eddie, if you’d had an education, you’d know each of those phrases mean something entirely different.
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June 13, 2010 9:29pm
Eddie

Extraction of piss – like those who really believed a spinmeister for the commies would hangout here on a Sunday night instead of spending time at home watching Romantic Comedies followed by a tuckies-in with National Radio, a warm Milo and the Sunday Star Times.
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June 13, 2010 9:30pm
Eddie

😉
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June 13, 2010 9:31pm
philu

the kiwiblog threads are useful tools for reminding me who put the loon in loony right-wing….

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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June 13, 2010 10:23pm
noskire

Some interesting activity in the Labour camp this afternoon. Not even BBQ weather you would have thought.
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June 13, 2010 10:28pm
Gulag1917

Evidence that the left cannot leave anything alone but a compulsive need to react.
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June 13, 2010 10:31pm
Hurf Durf

Is it extended opening hours at the Library on Sunday?
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June 13, 2010 10:57pm
krazykiwi

I was more than a little alarmed to see the headline:

DPF delivers healthy gain

🙂
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June 13, 2010 11:03pm
Banana Llama

??????????

http://www.nypost.com/
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June 13, 2010 11:53pm

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Point of Order
Justice in Brazil
No Right Turn
"Seymour is only doing openly what M?ori nationalists and their Pakeha allies have been doing, quietly for the past 50 years."
Not PC
The transgender agenda sunk Kamala
Bob McCoskrie's McBlog
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Croaking Cassandra
Media Link: “A View from Afar” on the US elections.
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This will not end well
Offsetting Behaviour
Top 14 Predictions for Round 10
Stats Chat
Tory Whanau may have to sell Wellington mayoralty to make ends meet
The Civilian
The Accidental Engagement
Imperator Fish
Legal Beagle: Election '23: The Special Votes
Public Address
Making this movie might have been a mistake
Liam Hehir
Why I am retiring from political blogging
Kiwi FireWalker
Angie Warren-Clark: Meet the Newbies
Dan Moskovitz

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