General Debate 2 May 2010

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malcolm

***************************************
General Debate With Beers – Backbencher
***************************************

KrazyKiwi had an ingenious idea. Rather than Righting The World or designing The Perfect Voting System, via the keyboard, we should do this over a few beers. Like in the old days. Here’s the cunning plan:

***
Monday, 3 May, 2010, 7pm (tomorrow)
Backbencher Pub, Wellington (back bar).
Everyone welcome.
***

KrazyKiwi and Malcolm will definitely be there. But don’t let that put you off.

We’ll make another announcement tomorrow and hopefully see you there.
*************************************************

Cheers

KrazyKiwi and Malcolm
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May 2, 2010 9:34am
Pongo

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/7659747/Tax-officers-arrest-22-in-UK-carbon-fraud-probe.html

European authorities revealed that carbon-trading fraudsters may have accounted for up to 90pc of all market activity in some European countries.

Criminals mainly from Britain, France, Spain, Denmark and Holland are estimated to have pocketed €5bn (£4.5bn).

Bit more transparent here where your average family will transfer their hard earned money to foresters in Nelson who planted their trees prior to Kyoto coming into force. Nick Smith should be forced back on his meds, having a mentally unstable person with a government warrant is dangerous.
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May 2, 2010 9:40am
Kris K

Malcolm 9:34 am,

I trust there is an implied ’18 and over’ caveat?
Although most of us here are all ‘Old Farts’, so you’re probably pretty safe.
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May 2, 2010 9:40am
sonic

Has David recovered enouhj from the shock of yesterday’s march to write a post about it?

How many did you get on your demo against the EFA again D?

#farrarfail
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May 2, 2010 9:44am
Redbaiter

Jezuzz- I have about as much interest in meeting that poncing insufferably arrogant little leg humping narcissist queer malcolm as I have in sniffing sewage gas.

Blog commenting is blog commenting. Why not just leave it at that??
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May 2, 2010 9:47am
Kris K

Pongo 9:40 am,

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/7659747/Tax-officers-arrest-22-in-UK-carbon-fraud-probe.html

European authorities revealed that carbon-trading fraudsters may have accounted for up to 90pc of all market activity in some European countries.

Gee, didn’t see that one coming – only a mere 90% ?
Who’da thunk it; fraud linked to carbon trading. Next they’ll be telling us the sea levels are rising …
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May 2, 2010 9:47am
Redbaiter

Global Warming High Priest Michael Mann faces possibility of trial for funding fraud-

“Virginia Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli has asked the University of Virginia to produce “a sweeping swath of documents relating to Mann’s receipt of nearly half a million dollars in state grant-funded climate research” conducted while Mann was at UVA between 1999 and 2005.”

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/04/30/virginia-attorney-general-global-warming-michael-mann/?test=latestnews
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May 2, 2010 9:49am
Kris K

Off to church – see ya later, dudes.
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May 2, 2010 9:50am
Redbaiter

“How many did you get on your demo against the EFA”

You smug insufferable little commie rat. You have the traitorous media. You have our disintegrating education system. You have our decrepit and inwardly collapsing public institutions. You have your whole disgusting archaic totalitarian socialist paradigm, and you boast about a mere 50,000 dimbulb brainwashed lackies???

Ccompared to the EFB protestors who marched and organised as a people’s movement?? You’ve got no idea you little soviet scumbag.
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May 2, 2010 9:56am
Pete George

Blog commenting is blog commenting. Why not just leave it at that??

Because some people see the benefits in real person contact? I’d be happy to try that down here some time. It doesn’t need to take anything way from online contact, but I can see it potentially adding to it. It’s too easy to get too remote from reality too much.
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May 2, 2010 9:56am
philu

are ya gonna tell yr fellow church-goers about that jesus-vegan- imperative..?..

from the essene/dead-sea scrolls..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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May 2, 2010 9:59am
philu

“..It’s too easy to get too remote from reality too much…”

someone should embroider that on a pillow..and send it to redbaiter..

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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May 2, 2010 10:01am
malcolm

I trust there is an implied ‘18 and over’ caveat?

Don’t worry Kris, most 18 year-old can’t read these days. Please do come along – it would be nice to meet you.
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May 2, 2010 10:07am
Viking2

‘Nanny’ gets a fresh pair of bloomers and sensible shoes
By FINLAY MACDONALD – Sunday Star Times
Last updated 05:00 02/05/2010

If there’s one card the National Party won’t be able to play in next year’s general election it’s the nanny state accusation. Having raised the price of fags, the drinking age and the driving age, it’d be a brave spin-doctor who tried to paint them as champions of individual choice and personal responsibility.

In fact, if Labour fancied reinventing itself as the enlightened libertarian alternative, John Key and his meddlesome chums might be forced to defend their own record against the charge that they have given nanny a fresh pair of bloomers and even more sensible shoes.

There were many reasons for National’s triumph at the previous election, but chief among them was the decisive emotional reaction by enough people to the perceived primness and purse-lipped censoriousness of the Clark regime. All the Nats had to do was bang on about state-approved shower heads, exploding energy efficient light bulbs and electoral finance fascism to reinforce an image of Labour as bossy Big Sister.

The mud stuck and dried to such an extent that Phil Goff even offered an apology of sorts, conceding that Labour “were getting distracted by sideshows” and “weren’t listening enough”. Being entirely disingenuous, this ex post facto rationalisation of defeat wasn’t followed by a vow to reverse the implacable march of the jackbooted state and enshrine our inalienable rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

But even a cursory glance at the government’s legislative agenda since winning power shows an even greater penchant for nannying than its predecessor. Call it the supernanny state.

What is the sudden hike in tobacco tax – fags will be a dollar each very soon – if not a war on ordinary people’s right to a little happiness? Ditto any endorsement of the Law Commission’s recent wowserishness about raising the drinking age and banning 18- and 19-year-olds from bars and pubs. What is this but a war on the right to be young and have a good time? Don’t give me the public health argument, either – National is meant to be the champion of not punishing the many for the transgressions of the few, surely?

Despite the rhetoric, the government’s first instinct is to distrust the individual and his or her ability to make sensible choices – be it to take folic acid if they feel like it, not because it’s in every loaf of bread they buy (a move National only backed down from after much industry hue and cry), to avoid using their cellphones voluntarily in cars rather than be ordered to, or to buy over-the-counter pseudoephedrine cold remedies without being suspected of manufacturing P.
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In the supernanny state we’re lucky to even get to debate these things. Like the cigarette price increase, our signing up to the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples was sprung on an unsuspecting nation as a fait accompli. Agree with it or not, you’d hardly call it democratic. But then, the Maori Party is led by the ultimate nanny in Tariana Turia – also the instigator of the anti-smoker legislation passed under urgency.

While we’re at it, doesn’t Whanau Ora just reek of nanny-knows-best? Data-sharing and multi-agency surveillance, woolly ideals cloaking the pseudo-corporatisation of welfare delivery, a missionary zeal to infiltrate and improve – the precious right to be left alone has hardly been enhanced by the advent of such a licence to intrude.

At a broader level, too, the theme is one of corporatist control, not liberal democracy. When the Law Commission recommended rethinking the drug laws covering minor dealing and personal possession, and greater emphasis on rehabilitation and prevention, the government’s response was a big dumb no. Never mind the evidence, just keep chucking them in jail, build more jails, create more criminals. More work for nanny that way.

In Auckland it seems bent on creating a nanny microstate, free from all but token democratic input, with its vital infrastructure and finances run by appointed experts. Super cities need supernannies, I guess.

The signs have been there since Key threw in his lot with Helen Clark on child discipline law reform, dismaying those who had naively believed he had come to lead a retreat of the state from people’s private lives. Since then there have been a succession of further interferences – from “filtering” the internet to rote testing school kids to means testing beneficiaries – that may or may not be good things, but which cumulatively disprove any claim to having rolled back the nanny state.

No, the old girl is alive and kicking – it’s just that her petticoats are blue now, not red.

finlay.macdonald@star-times.co.nz
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May 2, 2010 10:16am
pentwig

You appear to be in good form this morning Red.
Good to see.
Don’t know if you are still RIPping the phool but he needs some of your esteemed advice today it seems.
No one can do it the way you do.

Cheers
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May 2, 2010 10:17am
malcolm

Jezuzz- I have about as much interest in meeting that poncing insufferably arrogant little leg humping narcissist queer malcolm as I have in sniffing sewage gas.

Blog commenting is blog commenting. Why not just leave it at that??

You are free to leave it at that, Redbaiter. And it’s probably best in your case. Much easier to maintain the self-delusions from the anonymity of your keyboard. And tell people to “fuck off” because they don’t agree with you, probably doesn’t work well in person. Which is why you need to come online and give free-run to your inner man.

Thanks for the RSVP though.
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May 2, 2010 10:20am
Pete George

Ah, but would he be up to doing that face to face Pentwig?
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May 2, 2010 10:21am
Redbaiter

Sorry pentwig, I have nothing but the utmost contempt for that coward and self deceiver Ure, who has taken money from the working families of NZ for so long without even a skerrick of shame. Far beneath my dignity to bother with such odious hypocritical bludging vermin. (except on the odd occasion when I’ve nothing better to do).
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May 2, 2010 10:22am
big bruv

Still a harmless drug aye Phool?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/3647758/Cannabis-now-four-times-stronger
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May 2, 2010 10:22am
Viking2

Here ya go RED.

Why is Obama looking sheepish?

http://briefingroom.typepad.com/the_briefing_room/2010/05/why-is-obama-looking-sheepish.html

You couldn’t make it up…but then again maybe you could. Is the Obama cheating scandal with Vera Baker for real? Drudge frontpaged it, now the National Enquirer site has tanked.

Vera Baker, meanwhile, is this woman.
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May 2, 2010 10:25am
Redbaiter

Yeah, read that some time ago Viking. This is not going to create quite the storm as when the rumours of his gay=boy activities and associations become more widely know. See here-

http://hillbuzz.org/2010/04/30/leave-vera-baker-alone-she-did-not-have-an-affair-with-obama/
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May 2, 2010 10:29am
stephen

Still a harmless drug aye Phool?

The Iron Law of Prohibition at work, perhaps.
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May 2, 2010 10:32am
philu

my response to the bullshit/challange at 10.22 am

http://whoar.co.nz/2010/commentwhoarmore-lies-being-told-about-cannabis/

(what follows is the latest example of black propaganda/lies..about cannabis..

they start off with the current big lie..that the pot is so much stronger these days..(ooohh..!!..)

“..Cannabis now four times stronger..”

..which it is not…

the proof..?

two threads:..one personal/subjective..the other factual/objective..

first the personal/subjective:..

i have smoked pot since the late sixties…

..during the seventies etc…we had durban poison from sth africa..we had poisonously strong pot from indonesia..(sumatran..)..

..we had ‘buddah-sticks’ from thailand…we had hashish”.. and we had (high-quality) hash-oil…

..all of which were of very high quality…

..plus we had the beginnings of a healthy local-product..grown from the seeds of that imported pot..

..the pot now..is not stronger than those..some is equal..which is good..

..and hey..!..so what if cannabis is stronger..?..you need to smoke less..to get high..(what/where is the/any problem there..?..

or is it fear of overdoses..?..(snort..!..)

now..the objective/fact-based dismissal of this bullshit..

those facts come from the courts…in that over the years..as a component of court-cases..cannabis has been tested for thc-content/strength..

..these records..both here and in america….show that the thc-content of seized pot..has stayed roughly the same..

..facts that are hard to deny..eh..?

anyway..lets break down this piece of black-propaganda..eh..?

“..A secret police study involving scientists growing crops of cannabis has revealed New Zealand now has super-strength strains of the drug.

In May last year, Sunday News revealed police and Environmental Science and Research (ESR) used sophisticated hydroponic equipment to complete three cannabis growing cycles, nursing six plants at a time, 18 in total, to maturity.

The findings of the study, to be published in Forensic Science International, and released exclusively to Sunday News earlier this week, revealed the drug is now more than four times stronger than it was when ESR last tested it in 1996..”

so..what that tells us..is that scientists..able to work in optimum conditions..with none of the travails/dangers of blackmarket growers..

..were able to follow the textbook..and grow really good pot..eh..?

that’s all that tells us..

“..The THC level – the primary intoxicant – varied between 4.35% and 25.3% during the study completed under Ministry of Health licence between 2004 and 2006.

When ESR last tested the Class C drug, they found an average THC level of just 6%.

The THC levels varied considerably, as did yields, during the latest study – due to the growers lack of cannabis-cultivation knowledge, the ESR report read.

“The inexperience of the growers was evidenced by different problems encountered in each of the three cycles, each of which would be expected to negatively impact the yield and THC data obtained.”..”

so..what that tells us is that these scientists..should now be able to author/edit a killer ‘how-to’ book/pamphlet..eh..?

..(suggested title:..?..’know your cycles:..the definitive guide to growing cannabis’..)

..lets’ lift our national thc-rate..eh..?..”new zealand..we’re number one..!”..eh..?

“..Cannabis potency is believed to have remained stagnant from 1976 to 1996. But police believe it has increased significantly in recent years due to criminals using more sophisticated growing methods, helped by the availability of specialised equipment, like that sold at hydroponic specialist shops some of which police raided across the country this week. ..

..there you go..!..there is the reason for this latest bunch of lies/propaganda..

..two-years of police-time/resources..on a gardening-supplies chain..(!)

..while the streets are awash with ‘p’…?

and all of this at a time when california has had medical pot since 1994…and in november will vote in a binding referendum..to fully legalise/tax cannabis..

..here we just get anti-pot hysteria…up there with the best/worst of the ‘reefer-madness’ tales of yesteryear..

..eh..?

with of course the shorthand ‘solution’ to finding strong pot..being the imperative..’just smoke less..!’..

..eh..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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May 2, 2010 10:33am
Redbaiter

Actually Viking, here’s a far more interesting approach to the Stalinist methods of the Obama administration- an article that suggest having Obama and his cronies in power in the US is akin to the country being governed by a foreign force:

http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/04/a_stranger_in_our_midst.html
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May 2, 2010 10:41am
pentwig

phool

you certainly are obsessed with cannabis. Are you sure you are not addicted?

If the influence of cannabis is exhibited by your foolish rantings we should march on to parliment and urge them to re-classify the drug as a class A.
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May 2, 2010 10:48am
Redbaiter

“Thanks for the RSVP though.”

No problem, but don’t be too disappointed, I’m sure there’ll be someone else there you can hit on.
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May 2, 2010 10:57am
malcolm

Don’t give up your day job.
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May 2, 2010 11:02am
thedavincimode

The Big Magpie says:

“..It’s too easy to get too remote from reality too much…”

Another comedy classic.

phul(whoah.co.nz)

PS How old is he now Maggie? When might you be tuning back into reality?
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May 2, 2010 12:50pm
Yvette

Ph’lu – “are ya gonna tell yr fellow church-goers about that jesus-vegan- imperative..?..”
“with of course the shorthand ’solution’ to finding strong pot..being the imperative..’just smoke less..!’..”

Ph’lu your use of the word imperative is starting to make less sense than what little sense anything else you write makes..

..eh?..
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May 2, 2010 1:03pm
TimG_Oz

Interesting … a study shows the benefits of organicly grown food is “a myth”

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/sunday-telegraph/benefits-of-organic-food-a-myth/story-e6frewt0-1225861032056
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May 2, 2010 3:16pm
big bruv

How many times does Phool have to come here and admit that he has committed a crime before he is arrested?

I am sure that there are one or two cops who occasionally glance at this blog, one would hope that they decided to do their job and prosecute the parasite.
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May 2, 2010 3:54pm
philu

gee tim g..!..

..bite into an organic apple…then bite into one of the others..

q.e.d..

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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May 2, 2010 3:55pm
Ryan Sproull

This may be off-topic, but the last two episodes of Doctor Who (yesterday and last week) are totally fucking awesome. EOM.
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May 2, 2010 4:41pm
Viking2

Disappointing day with the blog especially with Hone’s appearance on Q+A this morning. Need to have a look as Hone made it clear that drips was the best thing to happen forever and that Findlayson is his best mate.

Maybe DPF would like to review that interview for discussion.
Scary stuff for NZ and will no doubt cause many Kiwi’s to become Australians in the near future.
How we expect to continue to prosper with this over our heads only Key and the good lord Know.
Funny, land occupation seems to be a favourite of two races of people in the world. How long before Kiwi’s face the same daily behavoir the Palestinians face.
Outcasts in our own country.
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May 2, 2010 5:57pm
krazykiwi

Blog commenting is blog commenting. Why not just leave it at that??

Because, red, I quite enjoy meeting people who don’t have the same krazy collection of values, attitudes and behaviours that God chose to inflict/bless me with 🙂

Meeting face-to-face always makes for refreshing conversation and I find it to be a more ‘honest’ way of hearing and being heard.
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May 2, 2010 6:11pm
philu

is viking 2 hyper-ventilating..?

‘through the nose..!..breath through the nose..!’..

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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May 2, 2010 6:19pm
Hurf Durf

Repost: Green energy is a load of shit, mere voodoo for thick people. This needs to be shouted from the rooftops.

Further, the president of Gas Natural has decided to attack the renewables scheme directly, as revealed in a Libertad Digital article titled “Gas Natural criticizes the government for investing in renewables that we do not need.” He is quoted as asking, “Are we so rich as to invest in something that we do not need? Do we have so much extra money?”

Calzada informs me that the precipitating event for this outburst of honesty was that, in recent weeks, the government has recognized that electricity costs went up 23 percent last year due to subsidies for solar power.

Also helpful was a solar scandal that Calzada described to me a couple of months back but that could not be established as fact at that time: Owners of solar fields had placed oil generators next to their solar fields to simulate more electricity production from the solar panels, for which they were reimbursed at the highly subsidized solar rate.

The scandal was finally uncovered because, after years of conducting this fraud without inspections, the greedy rascals were doing it even at night.
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May 2, 2010 6:34pm
Guy Fawkes

Gordon Brown has a heckler ejected at a so called ‘open meeting’.

Scenes reminiscent of the mid thirties in Germany.

Make you proud to be British.
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May 2, 2010 6:51pm
philu

kinda like how gerry brownlee assaulted/evicted that heckler at a natty-rally..?

y’know..!..that one he got found guilty of..

..and then tried to get the taxpayers to foot the bill/pay his fines/legal-fees..?

..d’ya remember..?

..is that what you are talking about..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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May 2, 2010 6:56pm
krazykiwi

Guy Fawkes – here’s that story: Gordon Brown has a heckler ejected at a so called ‘open meeting’.

Gordon Brown’s s election campaign was plunged into fresh disarray yesterday as a protester was dragged from a Labour Party event for heckling the Prime Minister over his ‘bigoted’ jibe against Gillian Duffy.

Oxford University dean Julian Borthwick was grabbed by the arm and led out of the meeting in Sunderland after shouting, ‘What about that bigoted woman?’ and telling Gordon Brown the country was ‘broke’.

Afterwards he was branded ‘an idiot’ by party officials, but he in fact holds multiple degrees, and has prestigious legal and academic credentials.

It’s Brown who is the idiot. How do these people (of any politcal shade) make it to ‘leadership’ positions? I wouldn’t trust Brown to lead a school camp, let alone an economically challenged country
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May 2, 2010 7:19pm
Guy Fawkes

Best to visit youtube.

Search on “Brown” and “Paxman” to get the Immigration lies, and updated tractor statistics.

Then search on: brown heckler rally

The great “communist wet dream’ is unravelling fast, in the UK and with huge civil unrest in Greece already in progress.

Likely to be followed by Spain, Italy, Portugal, France, in that possible order.

As the keen observers have stated so many times.

“Socialism is great until everyone else’s money runs out”
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May 2, 2010 7:53pm
TimG_Oz

OK philu – I’ll bite…

I bought a bag of organic apples at the supermarket tonight. They were slightly waxier, but about as fresh as the normal ones. The taste was slightly weaker (a bit more watery in my opinion). Apart from that they were OK, but no other noticeable difference, other than my pocket being $2 lighter.

Was I supposed to notice something else?
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May 2, 2010 10:37pm
philu

i have also had disappointing results from supermarket ‘organic’ apples..like you say..’watery’..

..aside from w.t.f.are you doing buying fruit/veges in a supermarket..?

(that is where they screw their highest profit-margins..)

i wd suggest sourcing yr organic apples elsewhere..

..then re-test…

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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May 3, 2010 9:02am

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